:00:00. > :00:08.This week sees another major strike by England's doctors.
:00:09. > :00:11."NHS in crisis" is one the oldest cliches in British politics -
:00:12. > :00:34.Jeremy Hunt was brought in to smooth ruffled feathers in the Health
:00:35. > :00:40.Service, so why is he now at the centre of this bitter dispute?
:00:41. > :00:44.Also, as campaigners for Britain to leave the EU fall out,
:00:45. > :00:48.we hear from Ukip's only MP, Douglas Carswell.
:00:49. > :00:50.And with very different views on Europe, the Lib Dem leader,
:00:51. > :01:01.It's not just the junior doctors who are lining up
:01:02. > :01:04.against Jeremy Hunt - the chef Jamie Oliver has a big
:01:05. > :01:10.He tells me what he'll do if the Government's new obesity
:01:11. > :01:16.I think we'll have to just change our strategy,
:01:17. > :01:19.get more Ninja, and I think we need to just try and get
:01:20. > :01:23.them out of power as soon as possible.
:01:24. > :01:25.Our ninja paper reviewers this morning are Gaby Hinsliff
:01:26. > :01:30.of the Guardian and the Spectator's Isabel Hardman.
:01:31. > :01:32.Plus music from California via Nashville, Tennessee -
:01:33. > :01:50.A bit more mellifluous than the current politics.
:01:51. > :01:51.But first, the news with Christian Fraser.
:01:52. > :01:55.The United Nations has condemned North Korea for violating
:01:56. > :01:57.its resolutions by firing a long-range rocket.
:01:58. > :01:59.North Korean officials says it was putting a satellite
:02:00. > :02:02.into orbit, but analysts believe the country is trying to develop
:02:03. > :02:06.nuclear weapons capable of reaching the US mainland.
:02:07. > :02:08.The United States, Japan and South Korea have requested
:02:09. > :02:13.an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council later today.
:02:14. > :02:16.A man has been pulled alive from the rubble of an apartment
:02:17. > :02:19.block in southern Taiwan, more than 24 hours after
:02:20. > :02:20.it collapsed in an earthquake.
:02:21. > :02:22.Officials say 130 people are trapped
:02:23. > :02:24.in the ruins of the building.
:02:25. > :02:31.Turkey is being urged by the European Union to let in tens
:02:32. > :02:37.of thousands of Syrian refugees trapped on its border at Kilis
:02:38. > :02:41.It says the refugees are receiving food and shelter inside Syria,
:02:42. > :02:43.so they don't need to enter the country.
:02:44. > :02:45.Two million Syrians have already sought shelter in Turkey.
:02:46. > :02:50.The Turkish government insists it's not closing its doors.
:02:51. > :02:53.Here, ministers are to spend more than ?4 billion improving
:02:54. > :02:55.the way technology is used in the NHS in England.
:02:56. > :02:58.The aim is eventually to create a paperless service that would be
:02:59. > :03:00.more convenient for patients, and would help doctors
:03:01. > :03:07.Some members and supporters of the Conservative Party have
:03:08. > :03:08.accused David Cameron of disrespecting the party's
:03:09. > :03:13.grass roots after he told MPs to ignore their views on Europe.
:03:14. > :03:15.They've set out their concerns in a letter to the Sunday Telegraph,
:03:16. > :03:19.which the paper says was signed by activists from more than 40
:03:20. > :03:26.I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock.
:03:27. > :03:36.Many thanks, Christian. And now from paperless to the papers, as usual.
:03:37. > :03:42.Lots of Europe on the front pages. That story we've just been hearing
:03:43. > :03:45.about on the Sunday Telegraph about a revolt against the Prime Minister.
:03:46. > :03:52.The Sunday Times in a very different mood has got "Margaret Thatcher
:03:53. > :03:56.would vote yes to EU". She is, of course, dead. This is Lord Tebbit
:03:57. > :03:59.man who disagrees with that analysis. We are not going to talk
:04:00. > :04:04.about the rugby today for obvious reasons. A very interesting story
:04:05. > :04:09.about people in low income families who are going to have to pay more to
:04:10. > :04:12.stay in social housing in the South in particular. That looks like being
:04:13. > :04:17.a very big story just beginning to build. That's what the Observer is
:04:18. > :04:25.splashing on. The Mail on Sunday has a disturbing story about the charity
:04:26. > :04:29.Help For Heroes. And also Priti Patel, the latest cabinet minister
:04:30. > :04:32.coming out against the EU. We are told she is going to try to meet the
:04:33. > :04:37.Prime Minister to explain why possibly today. A lot to talk about
:04:38. > :04:41.the top who is going to kick us off? I've got two stories on page two of
:04:42. > :04:46.the Sun on Sunday which are about Europe, surprise, surprise. One is
:04:47. > :04:50.about Michael Gove joining the out campaign or the incumbent.
:04:51. > :04:54.Apparently he's genuinely torn and it is quoted as saying this is
:04:55. > :04:57.haunting him more than usual. There was a story on the front of the
:04:58. > :05:03.Times saying that Michael Gove is thought to be very, very torn. I
:05:04. > :05:06.kind of read that as Michael Gove's last goodbye to his Brexit friends
:05:07. > :05:11.before he lines up with the Prime Minister. Do you think I'm wrong? I
:05:12. > :05:15.think a lot of cabinet ministers are thinking about their personal
:05:16. > :05:18.loyalty to David Cameron. This is a problem for Tory MPs, particularly
:05:19. > :05:21.Tory backbenchers who feel that David Cameron won them their seats
:05:22. > :05:24.last May and they are very disappointed by the deal he's
:05:25. > :05:28.brought back but in the final analysis, they are struggling with
:05:29. > :05:32.whether they can bring themselves to go against him about Brexit. There
:05:33. > :05:34.was a picture of David Cameron is the Godfather, which is not my
:05:35. > :05:40.immediate image of the Prime Minister. David Cameron and George
:05:41. > :05:43.Osborne are alleged by a lot of people in the Conservative Party to
:05:44. > :05:46.be beaming a bit too heavily on some of their ministerial colleagues and
:05:47. > :05:51.an backbenchers, dropping hints about their future careers and also
:05:52. > :05:54.trying to drum up support for the renegotiation deal that Cameron
:05:55. > :06:04.broke back last week. Karen hasn't got that many ministers supporting
:06:05. > :06:09.that. -- Cameron. You've got a spreading the Mail on Sunday. The
:06:10. > :06:14.Mail is very disappointed that Boris has proved insufficiently
:06:15. > :06:20.Euro-sceptic. It's quite fun. It was Priti Patel I was more interested in
:06:21. > :06:26.in this one. This is Boris in the House of Commons, sitting beside...
:06:27. > :06:33.When he sat down having said his piece, "Aren't you a Euro-sceptic?"
:06:34. > :06:37.He said, "I was never out". In that case, why were you flirting with out
:06:38. > :06:42.and giving the impression that you may be out. To be honest, looking
:06:43. > :06:49.back at Boris's history, he has never been an out person. He has
:06:50. > :06:52.always been criticising the EU and wanting to reform the EU and
:06:53. > :06:59.sounding off against the EU but he has never been an outer. This view
:07:00. > :07:03.is very important because Michael Gove and Boris Johnson other two big
:07:04. > :07:08.dory beasts we don't know which side they are going to come down on. --
:07:09. > :07:11.Tory beasts. That leaves us with Priti Patel as the only vaguely
:07:12. > :07:16.prominent minister at this stage who looks like she might take up the
:07:17. > :07:21.cudgels, and particularly the only female outer. At the moment, the out
:07:22. > :07:25.campaign is incredibly male. It is largely old men in suits. The
:07:26. > :07:27.problem with that is that the biggest proportion of undecided
:07:28. > :07:31.voters are female. We know that from the Scottish referendum. It was
:07:32. > :07:39.women it came down to in the end. To have a female figurehead is
:07:40. > :07:44.important. Priti Patel and Kate holy and another MP on the other side.
:07:45. > :07:48.Another important figure, certainly not a female, is Nigel Farage in the
:07:49. > :07:55.Sunday Telegraph. He has given an interview saying he has the voice to
:07:56. > :08:02.persuade the -- that undecideds. This campaign gets a little bit more
:08:03. > :08:07.funding and broadcast time as well. Farage is basically quite a divisive
:08:08. > :08:13.figure and some of those in the vote leave camp, which is a Euro-sceptic
:08:14. > :08:16.campaign, think he is too divisive. More labours than Tory. They do have
:08:17. > :08:21.some Labour people on board but to make it more confusing, the few
:08:22. > :08:24.Labour Eurosceptics are involved in the campaign are split over not just
:08:25. > :08:34.whether to join vote leave but whether they have left it. There is
:08:35. > :08:42.another campaign called leave.leave.org. It is very
:08:43. > :08:46.confusing. He thinks he could be the guy to persuade the undecided
:08:47. > :08:50.voters. This is important, about what kind of campaign it is going to
:08:51. > :08:55.be. Is going to be about immigration or going to be positive, about the
:08:56. > :09:03.economy? And Ukip is also split over which campaign to join, just to make
:09:04. > :09:08.it even more confusing. So, Gaby, this really important story in the
:09:09. > :09:11.Observer. This feels like the new bedroom tax. Its got that sense of
:09:12. > :09:14.something that seemed a bit technical when government first
:09:15. > :09:19.announced it but you sense it blowing up into a political battle.
:09:20. > :09:21.You have this policy which is basically asking people who are in
:09:22. > :09:26.council housing at the moment, who earn more than ?30,000 a year will
:09:27. > :09:30.be expected to take their chances on the open market, to rent privately.
:09:31. > :09:34.In the south-east because rents are now so high, 50% of those people
:09:35. > :09:37.affected aren't going to be able to afford to rent on the private
:09:38. > :09:41.market, so you have a situation where council housing becomes a
:09:42. > :09:45.refuge for the desperate, and emergency safety net, and a lot of
:09:46. > :09:48.other people are caught between two things. They are too wealthy to be
:09:49. > :09:53.in social housing but not wealthy enough... This is about people like
:09:54. > :09:58.policemen, firemen, NHS workers who are currently in council housing.
:09:59. > :10:01.You're talking about people with a household income of ?30,000 a year.
:10:02. > :10:06.That might be two people each earning 15,000. That's not a lot of
:10:07. > :10:09.money to find alternative accommodation in the south-east. The
:10:10. > :10:14.bill is the House of Lords this week so one feels it is going to develop.
:10:15. > :10:18.I'm reasonably switched on and I had never heard of this policy before.
:10:19. > :10:21.Visit new? It was announced in 2011 and there have been rows about it
:10:22. > :10:24.ever since. But they don't seem to have got the design of this policy
:10:25. > :10:31.quite right, given may have had so long. In 2011, the threshold was
:10:32. > :10:37.being set at 60,000 people said, "Quite right, why should people on
:10:38. > :10:40.that income be in council housing?" But now suddenly the threshold is
:10:41. > :10:43.half that and in the intervening years, rents in London,
:10:44. > :10:51.particularly, have spiralled way out of control. You do get the feeling
:10:52. > :10:54.one of the big opponents of the bill is not the kind of person people can
:10:55. > :10:58.easily dismiss as bleeding-heart predicts. There is Margaret Thatcher
:10:59. > :11:02.from the grave saying she backs the Prime Minister. Very useful for the
:11:03. > :11:06.Prime Minister. But let's move onto another big story in the Sunday
:11:07. > :11:10.Times about stillborn babies. This is a big investigation. Lots of
:11:11. > :11:15.papers have been picking up on this recently. The UK has got a really
:11:16. > :11:18.terrible rate of stillbirths. It is behind Slovenia and Slovakia for the
:11:19. > :11:21.number of babies that are stillborn and it's something that MPs are
:11:22. > :11:25.getting really concerned about. They've set up an all-party group
:11:26. > :11:29.involving MPs who have lost babies themselves. It is something that
:11:30. > :11:32.ministers are getting more interested in but the Sunday Times
:11:33. > :11:39.are doing a campaign, basically on the different measures that are
:11:40. > :11:45.needed... Do we know why Britain has such a bad record? Is their
:11:46. > :11:48.explanation? There are problems with monitoring of the babies with an
:11:49. > :11:53.extra scam that some countries are. There was a campaign called count
:11:54. > :11:56.the kicks which encourages mothers to keep an eye on their baby as they
:11:57. > :12:02.go through into the later stages of pregnancy. It is a reminder, almost,
:12:03. > :12:05.of the cot death campaign in the 1980s and 1990s where we had a
:12:06. > :12:08.problem we didn't know how to deal with and yet there were simple
:12:09. > :12:13.measures you could take that radically reduce it. And a withering
:12:14. > :12:17.story for Judith O'Reilly, who was a colleague of many of us in the lobby
:12:18. > :12:21.before she went up into the North. And another health story you've
:12:22. > :12:25.picked above, the sugar tax. We're going to hear from Jamie Oliver
:12:26. > :12:30.later on the sugar tax but this is a story from the Independent, which
:12:31. > :12:34.interviewed the government's former obesity czar, who says she has
:12:35. > :12:38.doubts about the strategy, not just about the sugar tax but why are we
:12:39. > :12:41.focusing on that children? That adults are also a problem and adults
:12:42. > :12:46.as parents dictate their children's diet and choices. It hasn't been
:12:47. > :12:50.dropped but we don't know what is going to happen. I'm sure Jeremy
:12:51. > :12:53.Hunt will fill a sin later but the thinking is that the sugar tax is
:12:54. > :12:56.off the menu and there was much more focus on the content of sugar in
:12:57. > :12:59.food and regulating that and cracking down on junk food
:13:00. > :13:04.advertising. Most people who have kids know that tell you is almost
:13:05. > :13:08.not the problem any more. Children consume a lot more media now online.
:13:09. > :13:12.My son watches YouTube. He doesn't watch television nearly as much as I
:13:13. > :13:15.used to as a kid and there is a real problem in that space about how you
:13:16. > :13:20.control and regulate sugar advertising. We will hear more about
:13:21. > :13:24.that later on. Another interesting story. Rising costs at a third of
:13:25. > :13:31.Britain's curry houses, which are risk of closure. Yes, a curry
:13:32. > :13:34.crisis! When I first heard about the current crisis, I thought it was a
:13:35. > :13:38.call for me to eat more curry but it is not just a problem of a lack of
:13:39. > :13:42.demand. There isn't a lack of demand for curry but it is a lack of
:13:43. > :13:46.skilled chefs because of immigration rules. There are fewer chefs coming
:13:47. > :13:54.in to make our curries, so it's not as if we're not eating enough.
:13:55. > :13:57.Terrible story. Gaby? This is a story about Labour's ongoing civil
:13:58. > :14:02.war about Trident, which has been ongoing almost as long as the
:14:03. > :14:07.Tories' civil war over Europe. It suggests that if, as expected,
:14:08. > :14:11.Jeremy Corbyn adopts a policy of opposition to Trident, dozens of
:14:12. > :14:14.Labour MPs will go into the next election promising that they
:14:15. > :14:19.personally will be pro-Trident, so you have a breakaway movement of MPs
:14:20. > :14:22.saying they are not going to a country with a policy they regard as
:14:23. > :14:26.completely toxic and unelectable. We are expecting the next few days
:14:27. > :14:30.Jeremy Corbyn to set out Labour's policy on Trident. Not a great
:14:31. > :14:32.surprise. I have been filing the newspapers very carefully on the
:14:33. > :14:36.floor, which causes a problem because I want to talk about the
:14:37. > :14:40.Scottish health story, which is there somewhere. You can describe
:14:41. > :14:46.what it is while I search for it. It's in the Independent on Sunday.
:14:47. > :14:52.It is not here. It is in that pile somewhere. They are trying to woo
:14:53. > :14:55.English doctors over the border. The Scottish Government going online
:14:56. > :14:59.with social media adverts saying, English doctors come to us, it's
:15:00. > :15:03.nice over here. I wonder how much is about NHS delivery and how much is a
:15:04. > :15:07.political game designed to goad the Tories in England. I suspect it's
:15:08. > :15:10.quite a lot of the latter. In Scotland, they are not subject to
:15:11. > :15:13.the same contract as the English doctors are fighting about. Thank
:15:14. > :15:17.you both very much. We've covered a lot.
:15:18. > :15:18.Now to the weather, and the Atlantic storms
:15:19. > :15:23.So what's in store for today and the week ahead?
:15:24. > :15:26.Over to Louise Lear in the weather studio.
:15:27. > :15:33.There is some stormy weather so I thought I would start with some
:15:34. > :15:38.sunshine, in Lowestoft a beautiful start of the morning here but things
:15:39. > :15:43.are set to change. Enjoy the sunshine we have at the moment,
:15:44. > :15:48.there is this massive cloud, here she is, Imogen will arrive through
:15:49. > :15:53.the latter stages of today and tomorrow. Before all of that, not
:15:54. > :15:57.bad across England and Wales. The rain gathering across Northern
:15:58. > :16:10.Ireland and Scotland, and that will stay with winds in excess of 50 mph.
:16:11. > :16:15.Top temperatures coolish in Scotland, one missed in the
:16:16. > :16:20.south-east corner. Then we go through the night with wet and windy
:16:21. > :16:24.weather, that clears away but unfortunately as we start off Monday
:16:25. > :16:29.morning, that's when we are likely to see the worst of the weather.
:16:30. > :16:34.Some pretty tedious travel conditions first thing Monday
:16:35. > :16:40.morning, with gusts of wind up to 80 mph. The Met office has issued a
:16:41. > :16:44.number weather warning, be prepared for destruction. All change though
:16:45. > :16:48.into Scotland, drier and brighter with some sunshine here but still on
:16:49. > :16:54.the chilly side. On it goes.
:16:55. > :16:57.Ahead of the referendum, various groups vying to lead the out
:16:58. > :16:59.campaign have been falling out with one another.
:17:00. > :17:02.Well, yes, because the outcome will shape the kind
:17:03. > :17:05.of Brexit campaign we see - will it all be about immigration,
:17:06. > :17:09.One of those splashing around in these murky waters is Ukip's only
:17:10. > :17:26.Welcome. You are Ukip's only MP but you don't get on terribly well with
:17:27. > :17:36.Ukip's leader, why are you in Ukip at all? The ruling body has made it
:17:37. > :17:40.clear that Ukip's position is to be supportive of all campaigns, we are
:17:41. > :17:44.equidistant. We don't decide who gets designation but we are backing
:17:45. > :17:49.both and we are more than happy, more than half of our councillors
:17:50. > :18:01.are signed up to Leave.EU. The Ukip Parliamentary party is 100% on-board
:18:02. > :18:08.with Vote Leave. This Saturday at a number of our MEPs worked out
:18:09. > :18:13.supporting Vote Leave. For those people already confused, explain the
:18:14. > :18:22.difference between Vote Leave and Leave.EU, which is the Arron Banks
:18:23. > :18:25.and Nigel Farage supported one. You are going to get different
:18:26. > :18:31.suggestions as to how we should fight the campaign. Let's be clear
:18:32. > :18:38.about this, you're right about this, I think there is a difference of
:18:39. > :18:44.strategy between the two campaigns. On the one hand Leave.EU seems to
:18:45. > :18:47.want to put more of a focus on identity and questions of
:18:48. > :18:51.immigration. I happen to believe and Vote Leave happens to believe we
:18:52. > :18:58.want a more optimistic, upbeat message. If you look at the Pauline,
:18:59. > :19:03.like it or not, people are really worried about immigration. If you
:19:04. > :19:08.underplay that, you could lose the campaign. Immigration is incredibly
:19:09. > :19:14.important, but it's also important that we say as part of taking back
:19:15. > :19:22.control, we don't only want to take back control of our borders but also
:19:23. > :19:26.our money. We have sent enough to Brussels to build a new hospital, so
:19:27. > :19:31.we need to focus on immigration but we need a broad repertoire and we
:19:32. > :19:42.need to appeal to the undecideds. Some pollen this week showed that
:19:43. > :19:46.the Vote Leave side is ahead. We need to make sure we are talking
:19:47. > :19:54.their language. So what is the problem with Leave.EU, the Arron
:19:55. > :19:58.Banks based one? I'm not going to be critical of any other Eurosceptics,
:19:59. > :20:03.we are all on the same side. I have enormous admiration for Nigel
:20:04. > :20:08.Farage, it is thanks to him we are getting this referendum in the first
:20:09. > :20:16.place. They have been very rude about you. Andrew, you know I am
:20:17. > :20:21.never rude. In politics I don't make personal attacks. If other people do
:20:22. > :20:26.that, you need to talk to them about it. We are all on the same side. We
:20:27. > :20:38.need to make it clear to people that if you vote to stay in, you vote for
:20:39. > :20:45.David Cameron's appalling deal, we cannot face challenges by remaining
:20:46. > :20:51.part of the EU. The grass-roots organisation Grass Roots Go, again
:20:52. > :21:00.supported by Arron Banks, has half a million people in contact, it is a
:21:01. > :21:04.massive organisation. Isn't it true that their organisation will become
:21:05. > :21:10.the designated one? It has widespread support generally. You
:21:11. > :21:17.are inviting me to say something unkind about other Eurosceptics, I
:21:18. > :21:24.won't do that. I wish Go well. We have a great ground game in Vote
:21:25. > :21:28.Leave, we have delivered millions of leaflets. I won't be disrespectful
:21:29. > :21:34.of the sceptics, these are good people. I think Vote Leave will get
:21:35. > :21:39.designation, they are led by a good team who have done this before and
:21:40. > :21:49.it is important we realise David Cameron's deal is pretty duff. The
:21:50. > :21:53.two people running your side of the Brexit campaign have come under a
:21:54. > :21:57.lot of criticism and been accused of being divisive and difficult and so
:21:58. > :22:03.forth. You have presumably worked with both of them so what is your
:22:04. > :22:07.view? I have known Dominic and Matthew for 20 years and what
:22:08. > :22:14.impresses me is they have both done this before. They have both won
:22:15. > :22:22.referendum campaign. At this stage before the AV referendum, the
:22:23. > :22:27.against side was 2/1 behind. Arron Banks says they could not run a
:22:28. > :22:36.sweet shop. I am never going to be personal. I think people are just
:22:37. > :22:39.simply confused as to why the Brexit campaign is not a single
:22:40. > :22:44.organisation. This could be your one chance to get Britain out of the EU.
:22:45. > :22:51.If people are squabbling at this stage, it is disastrous. It is
:22:52. > :22:54.tempting to say why don't you just merge, and if it is about
:22:55. > :23:00.personality I think that would happen, but it is about strategy.
:23:01. > :23:03.Yes, we want to work with and cooperate with Leave.EU but
:23:04. > :23:10.fundamentally they want to concentrate on issues of
:23:11. > :23:14.immigration. We want an argument based on the fact we would be better
:23:15. > :23:21.off economically and more prosperous if we leave. Our food bills would be
:23:22. > :23:26.lower, our tax bills would be lower. We need to take care of our spending
:23:27. > :23:31.priorities. And you need to reach out to lots of people who are not
:23:32. > :23:39.sure whether we should be in or out. Nigel Farage says he is the man to
:23:40. > :23:42.do this, why is he wrong? Nigel is fantastic at reaching out to people
:23:43. > :23:48.who are fed up with politics, we know that, and he has a vital role
:23:49. > :23:54.to play in doing that. We also need other people. It is 7% of people
:23:55. > :23:59.didn't vote Ukip at the last general election, I felt it particularly
:24:00. > :24:03.strongly. We need to reach out to those people and that's why we need
:24:04. > :24:09.a broad-based, optimistic, upbeat campaign. And to achieve that you
:24:10. > :24:14.need some more big figures, presumably from the Cabinet. If I
:24:15. > :24:20.gave you wish list, who would you really like to come out tomorrow and
:24:21. > :24:25.say am with Vote Leave. I welcome anyone from David Cameron himself to
:24:26. > :24:32.Boris Johnson and Arron Banks. We want them all and I welcome everyone
:24:33. > :24:36.who joins the campaign to leave. People like Michael Gove, Boris
:24:37. > :24:40.Johnson, those are the big prizes presumably. It would be wonderful to
:24:41. > :24:46.have them on board but we need everyone, and ultimately in a
:24:47. > :24:50.referendum, everyone from David Cameron to individuals in my
:24:51. > :24:56.constituency all get the same vote. And do we presume we are talking
:24:57. > :25:01.about June? I think it is very likely to be June. The machinery of
:25:02. > :25:06.government is very much working on June the 23rd. You have a frantic
:25:07. > :25:08.few weeks ahead. Thank you for coming in this morning.
:25:09. > :25:10.You may have seen on Twitter that we were due to speak
:25:11. > :25:12.to Arron Banks, founder of the Leave.
:25:13. > :25:16.But for logistical reasons he's been unable to join us.
:25:17. > :25:18.However, we do plan to have him on the show very soon.
:25:19. > :25:22.Now, from seats at the Cabinet table to a rump of just eight MPs,
:25:23. > :25:24.the Liberal Democrats have experienced a pretty devastating
:25:25. > :25:27.But their new-ish party leader, Tim Farron, insists liberalism
:25:28. > :25:31.He joins me from his constituency in South Cumbria.
:25:32. > :25:45.Morning, Andrew. It is reported in today's papers the Liberal Democrats
:25:46. > :25:52.are looking at having short lists for seeds of only ethnic minorities
:25:53. > :25:57.or only gay people or only disabled people. Is that accurate? The
:25:58. > :26:00.Liberal Democrat conference in March will be looking at a range of
:26:01. > :26:05.possibilities and it's all about trying to make sure those people who
:26:06. > :26:09.represent us in the various parliaments and assemblies around
:26:10. > :26:14.the UK and in Europe reflect the diversity of the communities out
:26:15. > :26:18.there. Let's be honest. You mentioned the number of MPs we have,
:26:19. > :26:23.every single one of them is a white male and I think we should do this
:26:24. > :26:35.in a liberal way, but I also think you cannot turn your back on the
:26:36. > :26:40.fact we have not succeeded as a party at the top at least in
:26:41. > :26:42.reflecting the diversity so it is good to look at those options. The
:26:43. > :26:44.thing about the Liberal Democrats, we are very democratic and the
:26:45. > :26:47.leader doesn't get to tell people what they do. I am very supportive
:26:48. > :26:49.of and determined to get a more diverse representation in the party
:26:50. > :26:56.but the members will make that decision. This is a new level of
:26:57. > :27:00.positive discrimination, so I'm interested in your view. Under this
:27:01. > :27:03.proposal, for instance, if you want to represent the Liberal Democrats
:27:04. > :27:11.from South Manchester, you might have to be gay or transgender. Is
:27:12. > :27:19.that really liberal? There's lots to learn at the moment from our friends
:27:20. > :27:23.and comrades over the water in Canada, the Liberal party there.
:27:24. > :27:27.They had a very similar problem twice over, they were hammered into
:27:28. > :27:33.a poor position in an election a few years ago, and they rebuilt. They
:27:34. > :27:37.also had an issue of diversity and frankly too many white blokes and
:27:38. > :27:43.not enough of everything else so they had a quite inventive idea of
:27:44. > :27:46.grouping constituencies together, where in four constituencies you
:27:47. > :27:53.would have to make sure that at least one of them selected someone
:27:54. > :27:57.from a black or ethnic minority background, women and so on. These
:27:58. > :28:02.are things we are discussing in our conference in March. The reality is,
:28:03. > :28:06.you were hinting earlier on, if you look at our candidates in the last
:28:07. > :28:11.election we were probably as diverse as anyone else. The problem is
:28:12. > :28:17.getting those people elected and that is the thing I need to focus
:28:18. > :28:24.on. Is this idea of black and ethnic minority in itself not a bit
:28:25. > :28:28.offensive? What about Chinese people, Korean people? If you want
:28:29. > :28:32.diversity, don't you need to break it down much more? These are the
:28:33. > :28:37.things we will be discussing. It is right we do so, and also right to
:28:38. > :28:43.get the balance right because setting diktats is not the way of
:28:44. > :28:47.doing these things. Let's give some credit, the Labour Party in the
:28:48. > :28:54.mid-19 90s took some muscular action when it came to gender equality. And
:28:55. > :28:58.it worked for them. They changed the nature of the House of Commons and
:28:59. > :29:03.other parties have followed suit. I'm liberal but I think if there is
:29:04. > :29:09.inequality you should sort it out. Would you like to trump them by
:29:10. > :29:16.being the first party with a trans MP? It is not about trumping
:29:17. > :29:26.anybody, it is about reflecting the society we live in. Maybe it is more
:29:27. > :29:32.than 50% of people in the UK who are women, and the fact we have no women
:29:33. > :29:34.is something I find frankly embarrassing, it's not right to it
:29:35. > :29:41.is important to intervene and get things right. One of your other
:29:42. > :29:44.great crusade as a party has always been the EU. What do you make of
:29:45. > :29:57.David Cameron's negotiation? And supportive of their being a
:29:58. > :30:02.renegotiation and I'm supportive of him getting something that he thinks
:30:03. > :30:07.he can come back to the Tory party and the British public and sell.
:30:08. > :30:11.Discussions without this morning with Douglas Carswell talking about
:30:12. > :30:16.the various different branches of the leave campaign, they both kind
:30:17. > :30:20.of ignore the main issue. I don't think most people making their mind
:30:21. > :30:25.up in the referendum will make it up on the detail in David Cameron's
:30:26. > :30:34.negotiation or the personnel involved in the campaigns. Is it in
:30:35. > :30:37.Britain's interests, to be inside or outside the biggest market? In these
:30:38. > :30:40.quite frightening times, is it better to seek the security of being
:30:41. > :30:46.alongside your closest friends and neighbours, and when you're dealing
:30:47. > :30:49.with enormous global challenges - the economy, refugee crisis, climate
:30:50. > :30:56.change - are we better off doing it with others are on our own? The big
:30:57. > :31:00.lofty issues are those on which most people will make their mind up and
:31:01. > :31:03.not the fairly grainy detail of what David Cameron comes back from
:31:04. > :31:06.Brussels with. You've been very critical of the Prime Minister in
:31:07. > :31:09.terms of a number of refugees this country has taken so far. What is
:31:10. > :31:16.the right number, in your view, roughly? It is a lot more than none.
:31:17. > :31:23.Is it about a million, like Germany? Well, the figure I've given and
:31:24. > :31:27.asked for repeatedly is that he takes 3000 orphaned refugees from
:31:28. > :31:31.the camps within Europe. It's important to look at this into
:31:32. > :31:35.microwaves. One, and most importantly, is on the humanitarian
:31:36. > :31:38.side. Joseph Stalin once rather chillingly said that one death is a
:31:39. > :31:44.tragedy and a million is a statistic. And I'm afraid that the
:31:45. > :31:48.Prime Minister and other European leaders are potentially treating
:31:49. > :31:52.them as statistics, in other words looking at the scale of the problem
:31:53. > :31:55.and not looking at the humanitarian reality of people I met on the beach
:31:56. > :32:00.at Lesbos, children I met in the camp at Calais, and these people are
:32:01. > :32:06.not on the whole coming here as economic migrants. These people
:32:07. > :32:11.fleeing from war and persecution. Europe in 2014 had 190,000 refugees.
:32:12. > :32:16.That was a records of the Second World War. In 2015 it was a million
:32:17. > :32:20.refugees who stop it could be 3 million this year and even that is
:32:21. > :32:24.only a fifth of those who are fleeing from the conflict in and
:32:25. > :32:28.around the Middle East. The scale of the problem is massive and our Prime
:32:29. > :32:29.Minister is not taking action. Tim Farron, thank you very much indeed
:32:30. > :32:32.for joining us this morning. I'm going to be talking
:32:33. > :32:34.to the Health Secretary shortly but first I've been chatting
:32:35. > :32:36.to Jamie Oliver about his He's campaigning to get
:32:37. > :32:39.David Cameron to The proceeds of the levy
:32:40. > :32:46.on sweets and sugary drinks, potentially ?1 billion a year,
:32:47. > :32:48.would go into health But Jamie's concerned
:32:49. > :32:51.that the Government seems to be When we started, it was
:32:52. > :32:55.like a categorical, "No, we will not tax
:32:56. > :32:57.sugary sweets and drinks". Everyone was trying to make me
:32:58. > :33:01.look like a fruitcake. Honestly, the length
:33:02. > :33:06.of national institutions around medicine and public
:33:07. > :33:08.health that have come out, thankfully, and supported
:33:09. > :33:10.me is so long. Anyone you would trust
:33:11. > :33:12.your kids with is in I don't mind not getting the tax
:33:13. > :33:17.if there's something better and something more symbolic,
:33:18. > :33:19.because what we need My worry is, if we don't get the tax
:33:20. > :33:25.and we don't get a robust strategy that feels like, oh,
:33:26. > :33:30.new energy, new thought... OK, so the magic of
:33:31. > :33:33.the television interview - I am now Jeremy Hunt and I say
:33:34. > :33:36.to you, "The trouble is, Jeremy might be in support
:33:37. > :33:46.of the sugary drinks tax because obviously the NHS
:33:47. > :33:50.is at the sharp end of everything like type two diabetes
:33:51. > :33:52.that is affected by sugar, but obesity costs more
:33:53. > :33:58.globally than all conflict It doesn't have a narrative
:33:59. > :34:08.that's like that. And what it does is just
:34:09. > :34:11.slowly makes people ill, die young and be unproductive
:34:12. > :34:14.and be pretty unhappy. This is a last-ditch appeal
:34:15. > :34:16.from your point of view? This is the capacity,
:34:17. > :34:20.regardless of politics, In a funny kind of way,
:34:21. > :34:25.the stronger Cameron is on this He's got five years where we could
:34:26. > :34:31.get good work done and entrench some new values that have a trajectory
:34:32. > :34:35.for England and Britain that We're positioned,
:34:36. > :34:43.actually, to be world It may well be that
:34:44. > :34:48.David Cameron's watching this. What would be your
:34:49. > :34:50.personal message to Er, well, Mr Cameron,
:34:51. > :34:55.I know you're very Childhood obesity strategy
:34:56. > :35:02.is around the corner. Please be brave and be bold and put
:35:03. > :35:07.a strategy together, put the stuff in the
:35:08. > :35:09.basket that's going to It is about you taking us
:35:10. > :35:23.into the next decade and setting a precedent that we
:35:24. > :35:26.can't go back on. If it's not a big bang but a whimper
:35:27. > :35:36.at the end of all this, I will be really,
:35:37. > :35:38.really, really upset. I don't know what I'll
:35:39. > :35:51.do but I will have to The relationship
:35:52. > :35:56.that I've built with many incredible NGOs over
:35:57. > :36:00.the last handful of years... I think we'll have to do just
:36:01. > :36:03.change our strategy, get more ninja, go a bit more
:36:04. > :36:06.underground and a little bit less nice, and I think we need to try
:36:07. > :36:16.and get them out of power as soon as possible because
:36:17. > :36:18.child health has to be central to a healthy,
:36:19. > :36:20.prosperous economy and it doesn't So, er, I don't think
:36:21. > :36:28.it'll be pretty. The chef and campaigner,
:36:29. > :36:30.Jamie Oliver. And I just happen to
:36:31. > :36:44.have the Health Secretary, Hole good morning. Jeremy just said
:36:45. > :36:48.he thinks you might be in favour of attacks on sugary drinks. Are you?
:36:49. > :36:52.It is a bit terrifying not answer affirmatively if he's going to get
:36:53. > :36:56.more ninja. Obviously it's Sunday morning and people are tucking into
:36:57. > :36:59.their bacon and eggs and chocolate croissant or whatever and I don't
:37:00. > :37:03.want to be too much of a killjoy but he is right - we have got to do
:37:04. > :37:08.something about this. I've got a one-year-old daughter and on current
:37:09. > :37:14.trends, by the time she reaches adult would the third of the
:37:15. > :37:17.population will be clinically obese. One in ten will have type two
:37:18. > :37:21.diabetes. It is a national emergency. So you have to do
:37:22. > :37:25.something radical and big, which is why all these discussions about a
:37:26. > :37:29.sugar tax are so important because that would be a big symbolic thing,
:37:30. > :37:33.as big as the ban on smoking. It would have a big change on real
:37:34. > :37:36.people's behaviour. I actually agree with what he said in the earlier
:37:37. > :37:40.part of the interview. What is the argument against it if you are not
:37:41. > :37:45.in favour of it? I am in favour of what he said. It has to be a game
:37:46. > :37:48.changing moment. The issue here is, do what it takes to make sure that
:37:49. > :37:53.children consume less sugar, because we have got this terrible problem.
:37:54. > :37:59.We are the most obese nation in the EU and it's getting worse. But what
:38:00. > :38:03.is it? We are going to be announcing in June calls. We are working out
:38:04. > :38:07.the details stop David Cameron has said it isn't a sugar tax, it needs
:38:08. > :38:11.to be is the equally robust, but he hasn't taken a sugar tax off the
:38:12. > :38:14.table. We have got parents up and down the country who want to know
:38:15. > :38:18.that they are going to be given the support they need to make sure their
:38:19. > :38:23.children eat healthily. The other thing Jamie has been very sensible
:38:24. > :38:27.about saying is partly it's what the food manufacturers do and that's why
:38:28. > :38:31.you have a discussion about taxes on drinks was top it's also what the
:38:32. > :38:34.retailers do, it's what schools do, it's what parents do, and that's why
:38:35. > :38:38.we need a strategy that brings everyone together. If we do this, a
:38:39. > :38:43.final point to make, in this country we have a very good record on public
:38:44. > :38:48.health. Recently the number of teenagers smoking has fallen to
:38:49. > :38:54.below 5%. If we make about minds, we can do this. Issue a sugar tax and
:38:55. > :38:58.you'll be able to do it. That is one of the options but there are many
:38:59. > :39:02.other options. Let's move to the junior doctors' struggle stop there
:39:03. > :39:04.as a central poisonous misrepresentation which I think is
:39:05. > :39:08.made this a particularly heated dispute, which is your assertion
:39:09. > :39:11.that the 11,000 extra deaths at the weekend are connected with poor
:39:12. > :39:14.staffing by junior doctors and hospitals. That drives them
:39:15. > :39:21.absolutely insensate with anger and it's not true. Well, the truth is
:39:22. > :39:25.that junior doctors are to say that, as we deal with the higher mortality
:39:26. > :39:29.rates at weekends, it isn't just about junior doctors, it's about
:39:30. > :39:36.being able to get diagnostic tests back at weekends, about cover. If
:39:37. > :39:41.you look at eight studies in the last five years, they all say that
:39:42. > :39:46.staffing levels at weekends are one of the issues that needs to be...
:39:47. > :39:51.One of the issues but Sir Bruce Keogh, who did the report, said
:39:52. > :39:56.would be rash and misleading to suggest that these deaths are
:39:57. > :39:59.avoidable by changing staffing. He actually said it would be rash and
:40:00. > :40:03.misleading to say that you could avoid every single one of those
:40:04. > :40:07.deaths but he is also very clear that staffing levels matter. One of
:40:08. > :40:11.the unfortunate misunderstandings... Junior doctors work incredibly hard.
:40:12. > :40:14.They are some of the hardest working people, who do some of the most
:40:15. > :40:19.weekends and nights, and we need to support them to do their job better.
:40:20. > :40:24.I think when we deliver a seven-day NHS - and this, in the end, is about
:40:25. > :40:28.making the NHS the safest, most high-quality system in the world.
:40:29. > :40:31.The first thing I had to deal with as Health Secretary was the tragedy
:40:32. > :40:34.of Mid Staffordshire and I've learned from that but when you have
:40:35. > :40:39.the studies that say you got these problems, you can't dock them. You
:40:40. > :40:43.have to deal with them. But you have connected those excess of deaths to
:40:44. > :40:46.the whole question of rostering and junior doctors and that is what
:40:47. > :40:49.people think is misleading, because it's a much more complicated
:40:50. > :40:53.situation than that. Many of those deaths are caused by the fact that
:40:54. > :40:56.many of the people who go into hospital at the weekends are already
:40:57. > :40:59.more ill and more likely to die and Sir Bruce Keogh and many others have
:41:00. > :41:02.said that you can't connect the number of deaths to rostering
:41:03. > :41:06.questions and yet, you have. That's not true. If you look at the
:41:07. > :41:10.studies, and we've had studies that came out by Fremantle last
:41:11. > :41:15.September, we had the study that came out by a professor just before
:41:16. > :41:20.Christmas, they all say, the Royal Oak on to say, that you have got to
:41:21. > :41:23.look at staffing levels. We have three times less medical cover at
:41:24. > :41:27.weekends. We are never going to have the same levels because they're
:41:28. > :41:30.going to be lots of things - I think this is another misunderstanding -
:41:31. > :41:34.that we don't do at weekends. Hip operations, the operations and so
:41:35. > :41:40.on. But for urgent and emergency care... If I give you one example
:41:41. > :41:43.which relates to senior doctors, the clinical standards - and this is all
:41:44. > :41:47.about making sure we meet the clinical standards - say that if you
:41:48. > :41:53.are admitted to hospital, you should be seen by a senior doctor within 14
:41:54. > :42:00.hours. But currently only happens in one in eight of our hospitals. If we
:42:01. > :42:04.want to promise every NHS patient, as I do, that they are going to get
:42:05. > :42:09.the same high-quality care every day of the week, we have to look at
:42:10. > :42:12.these issues. I definitely want to return to that but just to stay on
:42:13. > :42:15.the central question of misrepresenting the position of
:42:16. > :42:21.junior doctors, I can quote you two things you said. "There Are 11,000
:42:22. > :42:25.excess deaths because we do not staff are hospital property at
:42:26. > :42:28.weekends". And you've said that excessive overtime rates give
:42:29. > :42:31.hospitals a disincentive to roster as many hospitals as they need at
:42:32. > :42:36.weekends and that leads to 11,000 excess deaths. Sir Bruce Keogh, who
:42:37. > :42:41.did the research, says it is not possible to ascertain the extent to
:42:42. > :42:45.which of these deaths may be preventable. To assume they are
:42:46. > :42:48.avoidable be rash and misleading. The editor of the British Medical
:42:49. > :42:53.Journal accuses you of misrepresenting that report. She was
:42:54. > :42:57.right. She was wrong. If you look at what Bruce Keogh said, he didn't say
:42:58. > :43:00.that what I said was wrong but he said it was wrong to say that you
:43:01. > :43:06.could avoid every single one of those deaths. But he also confirms
:43:07. > :43:12.that staffing levels are one of the issues that need to be investigated,
:43:13. > :43:14.amongst many other issues. In the end, it's intuitively a very
:43:15. > :43:17.sensible thing to observe that if you don't have enough senior doctors
:43:18. > :43:22.when people are admitted to hospitals at weekends, if you're not
:43:23. > :43:25.able to check the most vulnerable patients twice a day, which is what
:43:26. > :43:30.the clinical standards say, then your risk of a death that could be
:43:31. > :43:33.avoided is higher. And I came into this job wanted to make sure that we
:43:34. > :43:39.offer the highest standards of care for every single patient. I think
:43:40. > :43:44.the sad thing about this is, we have this strike on Wednesday and what I
:43:45. > :43:47.want to do is what every single doctor wants to do. They want to
:43:48. > :43:50.give the highest standard of care to their patients and what we should be
:43:51. > :43:53.doing is sitting round the table discussing how to do this, rather
:43:54. > :43:57.than withdrawing care from patients, which can only harm them. You have
:43:58. > :44:04.said again and again the phrase senior doctors. Why go in
:44:05. > :44:06.head-to-head confrontation with junior doctors who are staffing
:44:07. > :44:10.hospitals at the weekends and are not responsible... Can we agree that
:44:11. > :44:15.they are not responsible for 11,000 deaths over the weekends? I think
:44:16. > :44:19.there are a number of things... Could we agree on that? There are a
:44:20. > :44:24.number of things. You are saying to me that we need to be very careful
:44:25. > :44:28.without words. If you look at the studies, they all say there are a
:44:29. > :44:31.number of factors that need to be investigated, including staffing.
:44:32. > :44:35.But if you just look of this contract, and I think there been a
:44:36. > :44:38.lot of misunderstandings, but look at the crucial issue of pay because
:44:39. > :44:41.I think this is something that worries people. We are absolutely
:44:42. > :44:46.clear that we don't want to cut junior doctors' pay. In fact, for
:44:47. > :44:49.the majority of them it will go up. Just on pay, you said something but
:44:50. > :44:55.I don't understand at all. You have said that this is revenue neutral.
:44:56. > :44:58.It is not costing money at all. And you said that 75 the scent of junior
:44:59. > :45:02.doctors are going to be paid better, have more money coming in, and the
:45:03. > :45:07.rest won't be worse off. That is mathematically impossible. In the
:45:08. > :45:10.short term, as we transition to the new contract, it will actually cost
:45:11. > :45:16.us more, as we protect the payoff people. But when we moved to the new
:45:17. > :45:21.contract, the total amount going into the junior doctors' pay packet
:45:22. > :45:25.will be higher, not lower. So it is not revenue neutral? In the end, if
:45:26. > :45:29.you are going to ask more doctors to work at weekends, you are going to
:45:30. > :45:35.have to pay more. But in order to be able to afford that, in a way that
:45:36. > :45:39.is affordable for the NHS, this is a very important point, we need to
:45:40. > :45:42.reduce the premiums we pay at weekends, make up for it with an
:45:43. > :45:47.increase in base pay, but even after these changes we are making, junior
:45:48. > :45:51.doctors will get a higher premium for working weekends than the nurses
:45:52. > :45:54.working in the same hospital, than the ambulance drivers who take you
:45:55. > :45:58.to hospital and the porters and the cleaners. It is a good deal for
:45:59. > :46:01.junior doctors but most importantly, it will make care safer for
:46:02. > :46:03.patients, because what we need to do is make sure that our hospitals are
:46:04. > :46:14.properly staffed at weekends. If it is such a good deal, why do
:46:15. > :46:19.you have to do protect their pay for three years? We are giving more
:46:20. > :46:25.rewards to people who work nights and frequent weekends. I want to
:46:26. > :46:30.make sure in the transitions there are no losers. We will end up with a
:46:31. > :46:34.contract that better for patients and also for doctors. If you are
:46:35. > :46:46.junior doctor at the moment and you go to work at the weekend, in an A
:46:47. > :46:50.Department, we have half as many consultants as on a weekday. I want
:46:51. > :46:54.to make sure that whatever day of the week, they get the support they
:46:55. > :46:59.need to give the best care to patients. This is obviously very
:47:00. > :47:06.challenging, the BMA is a formidable union. You look at the battles Ken
:47:07. > :47:11.Clarke had, health secretaries have these battles, but what history
:47:12. > :47:16.judges in the end, have you done the right thing for patients? You have
:47:17. > :47:25.used the phrase again and again junior doctors, but it has been made
:47:26. > :47:31.clear that you need consultants back in the hospitals, and you need the
:47:32. > :47:36.people doing the blood tests, the MRIs, so there will be the great
:47:37. > :47:41.battle to get them working as well. They are vital part of it and we're
:47:42. > :47:45.having negotiations with the BMA on those, they have been more
:47:46. > :47:54.constructive and those negotiations are ongoing so I hope we will do
:47:55. > :47:58.that. If you look at what the Royal cans, and for hospitals that have
:47:59. > :48:04.successfully introduced seven day care, they say you need senior
:48:05. > :48:08.decision-makers and that could be a junior doctor towards the end of
:48:09. > :48:16.their training, but you need experienced doctors and that will be
:48:17. > :48:22.consultants... You will get them in on the Saturdays and Sundays as
:48:23. > :48:25.well? We have said we will remove the opt out that consultants
:48:26. > :48:31.currently have that means they are able not to work at all at weekends.
:48:32. > :48:35.The goal here, and this is important because I feel what is happening
:48:36. > :48:40.with this junior doctors debate is that we have lost some of the big
:48:41. > :48:44.picture, this is a year of opportunity in the NHS. In the
:48:45. > :48:49.spending round last autumn this Government gave the NHS is the sixth
:48:50. > :48:59.biggest increase in its budget ever. I will come to that... My point is
:49:00. > :49:02.we have an opportunity to turn the NHS into one of the best in the
:49:03. > :49:08.world and that is what I am determined to do. And yet somehow
:49:09. > :49:17.you have outraged junior doctors on this. Rachel Clarke, a doctor in
:49:18. > :49:22.Oxford, has said Mr Hunt has made me feel cheap, he implies we are the
:49:23. > :49:26.problem. It is so grim on the front line now I sometimes work 15 hours
:49:27. > :49:33.straight without even a second to eat. I have never felt so
:49:34. > :49:39.despairing. Andy King, a registrar, said with so many patients to see I
:49:40. > :49:46.am petrified, I am too exhausted to look after them. If we are stretched
:49:47. > :49:52.even more I am sure patients will die. Another one, the profession is
:49:53. > :49:56.at breaking point, I see doctors in tears because they are so despairing
:49:57. > :50:01.about what the future holds. Jeremy Hunt has done this, he's driving
:50:02. > :50:09.away a whole generation of doctors. That is what they feel. Yes, and it
:50:10. > :50:13.is incredibly disappointing, the totally responsible way the BMA has
:50:14. > :50:17.behaved in refusing to sit down and talk about how we can improve
:50:18. > :50:23.patient care, and spreading misinformation. That seems to be
:50:24. > :50:29.their personal experience of daily life, not what the BMA is doing.
:50:30. > :50:33.Outside the contract we need to do a number of things to improve the
:50:34. > :50:38.morale of junior doctors and there is a lot we can do in respect of the
:50:39. > :50:43.training. One of the reasons for the anger is because they were told by
:50:44. > :50:48.the BMA had their pay would be cut, it isn't, they were told they would
:50:49. > :50:52.be asked to work longer hours, we are bringing down the amount of
:50:53. > :50:55.hours they work, and if you were told by your union the Health
:50:56. > :51:02.Secretary wants to do these things of course you would feel devalued.
:51:03. > :51:11.The way to restore morale is to sit around the table, discussed what is
:51:12. > :51:14.the right thing to do for doctors and patients, and also look at the
:51:15. > :51:17.bigger picture, which is record resources going into the NHS. The
:51:18. > :51:22.sixth biggest increase in one-year in the history of the NHS, more
:51:23. > :51:27.doctors and nurses than ever. A commitment by the Government to make
:51:28. > :51:32.the NHS highest quality, safest healthcare anywhere in the world.
:51:33. > :51:38.There are always battles love the way, but history will ask, did the
:51:39. > :51:43.Health Secretary, did the Government, do the right thing for
:51:44. > :51:50.patients to make care safer and better? In the end, if they did, the
:51:51. > :51:55.doctors will say it was the right thing for the NHS. The King 's fund
:51:56. > :52:01.has said most of the money has already been spent, so you will need
:52:02. > :52:11.more money. Are you really sure in your heart of hearts that your
:52:12. > :52:18.language on this has been adroit? My language has always been extremely
:52:19. > :52:23.careful but what I cannot control is that we have a free press and often
:52:24. > :52:27.my words are distorted by the BMA, which is one of the most clever
:52:28. > :52:31.trade unions in the book because they know the argument between
:52:32. > :52:36.doctors and politicians, the public will side with the doctors. But in
:52:37. > :52:42.the end, look at the big picture here. The big picture is that they
:52:43. > :52:47.are still absolutely furious with you. 98% of these hard-working
:52:48. > :52:54.people have voted to strike. It cannot be everyone else's fault
:52:55. > :52:58.except yours, surely? No, I take responsibility for everything that
:52:59. > :53:03.happens in the NHS, but I have also got to take responsibility for the
:53:04. > :53:08.care of patients, and the key thing here is record resources going into
:53:09. > :53:14.the NHS, record numbers of doctors... Record numbers of doctors
:53:15. > :53:20.going to find a job elsewhere because 50% go off not to work in
:53:21. > :53:25.the NHS because they are so horrified and demoralised before
:53:26. > :53:30.they start. It is important not to make a snap judgment about doctors
:53:31. > :53:36.in the heat of industrial relations. This is a moment for the NHS to pull
:53:37. > :53:40.together, in the end doing the right thing for patients is the way we can
:53:41. > :53:45.help the NHS go from strength to strength. Last question, have you
:53:46. > :53:51.got more to give them when you see them next? The door is still open on
:53:52. > :53:57.this issue, we are at loggerheads with the question of working at
:53:58. > :54:01.weekends. The BMA have said they don't want to talk about that. I
:54:02. > :54:08.have said rather than cancelling operations, come and talk. Riley is
:54:09. > :54:18.making the NHS paperless so important? -- why? One of the things
:54:19. > :54:22.doctors are so frustrated about is filling out paperwork, and we know
:54:23. > :54:27.that proper investment in IT can save times for doctors and nurses
:54:28. > :54:31.and they can spend more time with patients, and this is a much-needed
:54:32. > :54:38.investment to allow that to happen. You came into smooth feathers and
:54:39. > :54:44.calm things down, and people regard you now as toxic. Isn't this going
:54:45. > :54:49.to be very damaging as someone who has been talked about as the future
:54:50. > :54:54.leader of the Conservative Party? The person who founded the NHS, Nye
:54:55. > :55:08.Bevan, was described by the BMA as the medical fuhrer. There were
:55:09. > :55:16.posters of Ken Clarke put up around the country, but in the end when the
:55:17. > :55:20.dust settles you have got to do the right thing for patients. Thank you
:55:21. > :55:22.for talking to us this morning. Now over to Christian
:55:23. > :55:24.for the news headlines. Ukip's only MP has said that,
:55:25. > :55:27.to be successful in the forthcoming referendum, the campaign to leave
:55:28. > :55:30.the EU must reach out to the 87% of people who didn't vote for his
:55:31. > :55:33.party in the general election. Douglas Carswell said the campaign
:55:34. > :55:35.must be optimistic and upbeat, and focus on those who've not yet
:55:36. > :55:38.made up their minds. He said his party leader,
:55:39. > :55:41.Nigel Farage, would have a vital Ahead of this week's
:55:42. > :55:48.strike by junior doctors, the Health Secretary has warned that
:55:49. > :55:51.'withdrawing care can Jeremy Hunt insisted the government
:55:52. > :55:54.was offering doctors a 'good deal' under the proposed new contract,
:55:55. > :55:57.which he said would make hospitals safer, by ensuring they're properly
:55:58. > :55:59.staffed at weekends. The next news on BBC One
:56:00. > :56:02.is at one o'clock. First, a look at what's coming up
:56:03. > :56:12.immediately after this programme. We are live from Southampton
:56:13. > :56:17.debating the morality of Britain's response to the refugee crisis, and
:56:18. > :56:22.on shrew Tuesday next week you should Shriver your sins, but are
:56:23. > :56:24.some unforgivable? See you at ten o'clock on BBC One.
:56:25. > :56:27.Join me again at the same time next week.
:56:28. > :56:29.For now, we leave you with Chris Isaak.
:56:30. > :56:31.From his new album, 'First Comes The Night',
:56:32. > :56:54.# Please don't call # We would only start again
:56:55. > :56:58.# We won't change # So why should we pretend?
:56:59. > :58:19.# It's an eye for an eye, now we're even
:58:20. > :58:44.# We fell in love but we went too far.