:00:07. > :00:08.Think again on benefits cuts, Iain Duncan Smith warns
:00:09. > :00:11.the Prime Minister in what has been
:00:12. > :00:13.the most spectacular Tory resignation since
:00:14. > :00:16.Supporters of David Cameron are talking
:00:17. > :00:41.Mr Duncan Smith, the former Work and Pensions Secretary,
:00:42. > :00:45.joins me this morning to answer his government critics.
:00:46. > :00:48.We'll also be talking to the author of an explosive book which reveals
:00:49. > :00:53.The former Lib Dem minister, David Laws with his inside story
:00:54. > :01:09.The newspapers are full of what's being seen as the outbreak of civil
:01:10. > :01:16.And Matthew d'Ancona, columnist and close observer of
:01:17. > :01:22.one of the undisputed grande dames of Hollywood,
:01:23. > :01:26.Glenn Close, on her return to the London stage,
:01:27. > :01:29.as a fading star, in the musical Sunset Boulevard.
:01:30. > :01:38.the American singer and songwriter, Natalie Merchant -
:01:39. > :01:46.formerly one of the Ten Thousand Maniacs.
:01:47. > :01:49.So, a very busy show - first, to the news.
:01:50. > :01:55.One of Iain Duncan Smith's close colleagues has launched a highly
:01:56. > :01:57.personal attack on the former Work and Pensions Secretary,
:01:58. > :02:00.and questioned his motives for resigning.
:02:01. > :02:04.Mr Duncan Smith quit on Friday night, saying the government's plans
:02:05. > :02:11.to cut disability benefits were "indefensible".
:02:12. > :02:17.The Pensions Minister Ros Altmann said she believed
:02:18. > :02:21.His departure was about the EU referendum.
:02:22. > :02:23.Two days after Iain Duncan Smith's shock resignation, the fallout
:02:24. > :02:27.Headlines describe how a deep rift at the heart of government
:02:28. > :02:29.has been laid bare and there is fierce disagreement over
:02:30. > :02:36.Mr Duncan Smith said he quit over the government's approach to welfare
:02:37. > :02:41.reform, claiming benefit cuts were ideological, not economical.
:02:42. > :02:43.But a colleague from within the Department
:02:44. > :02:49.And in a damning statement said he was
:02:50. > :02:52.difficult to work with and claimed he only quit to inflict damage
:02:53. > :02:54.to those campaigning to stay in the EU.
:02:55. > :02:59.I honestly don't think it is about the issue of reform,
:03:00. > :03:02.I think it is about the issue of the EU and that he has been
:03:03. > :03:06.looking for a reason to go and he has used this as the reason.
:03:07. > :03:11.If you announce your resignation on a
:03:12. > :03:14.point of principle after the point on which you say you are resigning
:03:15. > :03:20.Iain Duncan Smith has made no secret of
:03:21. > :03:23.the fact he is a staunch Eurosceptic who will vote to leave.
:03:24. > :03:25.But allies insist his resignation was a principled stance,
:03:26. > :03:27.driven by frustration over welfare reform.
:03:28. > :03:36.The French authorities say that Salah Abdeslam,
:03:37. > :03:39.the jihadist suspect captured in Brussels on Friday,
:03:40. > :03:42.did play a key role in the deadly attacks in Paris last November.
:03:43. > :03:44.He was arrested after a dramatic raid in the Belgian
:03:45. > :03:49.He's since been charged with terrorism offences.
:03:50. > :03:54.His lawyer said he would fight extradition to France.
:03:55. > :03:57.An agreement reached between the European Union
:03:58. > :03:59.and Turkey to try to tackle the migrant crisis has
:04:00. > :04:04.Under the deal, migrants arriving in Greece from Turkey will be sent
:04:05. > :04:08.back if they do not apply for asylum, or their claim is rejected.
:04:09. > :04:11.For every Syrian refugee returned, the EU will resettle one directly
:04:12. > :04:15.But officials have warned that the measures are unlikely to be
:04:16. > :04:20.Television cameras are to be allowed into Crown Courts for the first
:04:21. > :04:24.time, under a pilot scheme set to begin within weeks.
:04:25. > :04:28.The footage will not be broadcast but the historic move could pave
:04:29. > :04:32.the way for the first live coverage of Crown court cases.
:04:33. > :04:36.It follows a trial in Supreme Court and Court of Appeal hearings.
:04:37. > :04:39.Barack Obama is travelling to Cuba later today,
:04:40. > :04:41.in one of the most historic visits of his presidency.
:04:42. > :04:44.It has been almost 90 years since a serving US President visited
:04:45. > :04:49.The trip comes 15 months after Mr Obama reversed more
:04:50. > :04:52.than half a century of US policy on Cuba and started normalising
:04:53. > :04:58.I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock.
:04:59. > :05:13.If you do not know what the main story is you need a another cup of
:05:14. > :05:23.coffee. That is the Observer. Tory party at war. The take in the Sunday
:05:24. > :05:30.Telegraph is not so different. A backlash. We love a backlash! And
:05:31. > :05:34.the Mail on Sunday, the four letter word is not Iain. The Sunday Times,
:05:35. > :05:49.IDS attack. And that is the Independent, a
:05:50. > :05:53.gloomy front page, melancholy, and rightly so because it is the last
:05:54. > :05:58.print copy of the Independent on Sunday. We
:05:59. > :06:03.print copy of the Independent on the Sunday Times and a big spread.
:06:04. > :06:07.print copy of the Independent on 2-page spread takes you through
:06:08. > :06:13.these series of events. The more you read, the more baffling it gets. I
:06:14. > :06:19.still do not understand why Iain Duncan Smith resigned. Here was an
:06:20. > :06:25.issue that his department had put forward. It was an issue he had been
:06:26. > :06:33.offered the chance to discuss. He had written letters to colleagues,
:06:34. > :06:38.saying, very recently, saying it was a policy they should support. It
:06:39. > :06:43.appears on the day he resigned, the policy was going to be kicked into
:06:44. > :06:50.the long grass anyway so he got what he wanted. Why then did he resign?
:06:51. > :07:00.What is your answer? My suspicion is a lot of things are going on. Brexit
:07:01. > :07:06.has amplified every emotion involved but there is no doubt what he is
:07:07. > :07:13.clearly trying to do is edge out the Chancellor and also to an extent
:07:14. > :07:18.that has not been given emphasis, to edge out the Prime Minister. You see
:07:19. > :07:24.this is directed against David Cameron. Do you think Boris is
:07:25. > :07:33.behind this, a plot? I would be amazed. I do not think Boris stars
:07:34. > :07:40.organised plots! That is not his style. To use a phrase as a
:07:41. > :07:46.classicist, who is the beneficiary of this anti-Cameron and anti-George
:07:47. > :07:51.Osborne rhetoric? Matthew d'Ancona, I put it to you in your book you
:07:52. > :07:56.quoted George Osborne attacking Iain Duncan Smith's intellect and it is
:07:57. > :08:04.behind a lot of this. I hope you are proud of yourself! I just report the
:08:05. > :08:07.news. Steve Richards. The Observer newspaper headline, an illustration
:08:08. > :08:24.of how multilayered this story is, Budget for -- for -- furore will
:08:25. > :08:27.stop the Budget furore which we would be talking about it this
:08:28. > :08:34.resignation had not happened, for lots of reasons. George Osborne's
:08:35. > :08:38.future is in the headline. Iain Duncan Smith's departure and whether
:08:39. > :08:43.it is to do with Brexit and there is a photograph of Iain Duncan Smith
:08:44. > :08:48.watching the Budget. He stands at a distance, never on the front bench.
:08:49. > :08:54.He has never sat on the front bench in Prime Minister's Questions. If it
:08:55. > :08:59.was a Budget of a brilliant strategist, I doubt if resignation
:09:00. > :09:04.would be provoked two days later. I wanted the degree is about Brexit.
:09:05. > :09:12.In this sense that if George Osborne had been part of the Out campaign he
:09:13. > :09:15.would not be targeted in this way today and because collective
:09:16. > :09:19.responsibility on the front bench of the Cabinet and elsewhere has been
:09:20. > :09:24.suspended, I think it changes the way politicians think and behave but
:09:25. > :09:28.beyond that I think it is about the issue of the pressure relentlessly
:09:29. > :09:32.from the Treasury to cut the welfare Budget and only one element, not
:09:33. > :09:38.pensions and the rest of it, one element. I think it is about that.
:09:39. > :09:43.One of Iain Duncan Smith's allies pointed out on Brexit he can speak
:09:44. > :09:50.out, it would be strange to resign. Suggesting it is about the
:09:51. > :09:55.disability cuts. That is the theme picked up in the Sun newspaper.
:09:56. > :09:59.disability cuts. That is the theme Duncan Smith apparently talking how
:10:00. > :10:06.George Osborne held a gun to his head. And every time there is a
:10:07. > :10:12.spending round, they come to me with a loaded revolver say, give us a
:10:13. > :10:16.couple of million quid. He said no other department gets this. The
:10:17. > :10:21.foreign aid Budget is not touched, the EU Budget cannot be touched. The
:10:22. > :10:25.message here is that for Iain Duncan Smith it was the final straw, he
:10:26. > :10:36.reached the end of his tether and had had enough of George Osborne. I
:10:37. > :10:41.have every sympathy. We call him OsBrown. We think he has carried on
:10:42. > :10:48.Gordon Brown's legacy with bigger interest payments and deficit. He
:10:49. > :11:00.has not reduced the deficit. You have the Mirror. Fascinating
:11:01. > :11:07.cartoon. I suppose that some people it will not look very funny of Iain
:11:08. > :11:11.Duncan Smith, knifing George Osborne in the back. I presume that is Chris
:11:12. > :11:18.Grayling but it does not bear aim resemblance. I think it shows as the
:11:19. > :11:23.headline says, blundering Osborne is out. In the way he has behaved has
:11:24. > :11:28.shown he is not in touch with ordinary people and his budgets have
:11:29. > :11:33.been devastating for many of the middle classes who traditionally
:11:34. > :11:38.vote Tory. I think the Tory party is in crisis. One of the reasons that
:11:39. > :11:43.Iain Duncan Smith criticised the Budget was precisely it appeals to
:11:44. > :11:48.the middle classes. I think he was talking about the fact the cuts to
:11:49. > :11:54.the disability benefits and welfare Budget were being used for tax cuts.
:11:55. > :11:59.I would like to move to the Mail on Sunday with a fascinating double
:12:00. > :12:04.page spread of Nick Wood, close to Iain Duncan Smith giving the IDS
:12:05. > :12:12.point of view and Ian Beryl having a go at him, Ian Beryl being close to
:12:13. > :12:22.David Cameron. -- Birrell. The point that comes out of this piece is that
:12:23. > :12:28.Duncan Smith has been involved in cuts involving the disabled for six
:12:29. > :12:36.years and let's not forget was responsible for the work capability
:12:37. > :12:42.assessments that were so disastrously bungled by the private
:12:43. > :12:45.contractors who ran the tests. One has to be careful before suddenly
:12:46. > :12:53.seeing Iain Duncan Smith as a kind of hero of disabled rights, who has
:12:54. > :13:01.decided that he will not put up with this after six years. Except he has
:13:02. > :13:05.resigned over the issue. It is gloriously counterintuitive with
:13:06. > :13:11.Iain, who Birrell regards himself as part of the modern rising section,
:13:12. > :13:18.arguing against Iain Duncan Smith, even though Iain Duncan Smith has
:13:19. > :13:22.resigned in protest against the cuts and arguing that the Osborne agenda
:13:23. > :13:30.has shown we are not all in this together. It is quite hard. Matthew
:13:31. > :13:36.believes that the Osborne- Cameron project is on the centre ground but
:13:37. > :13:40.I think phrases like the centre and modernising are not helpful because
:13:41. > :13:46.they lead us down blind alleyways. Who is the moderniser in this case
:13:47. > :13:51.when Iain Duncan Smith was often in alliance during the coalition with
:13:52. > :13:58.Nick Clegg against George Osborne's welfare cuts. On the hard right but
:13:59. > :14:03.he is resigning. This piece seems to be agreeing with Iain Duncan Smith
:14:04. > :14:08.but says it is really about Brexit. I suspect that to be true but in
:14:09. > :14:14.Iain Duncan Smith's letter he says he has nothing against the package
:14:15. > :14:19.of reforms. What he did not like was their presence in the Budget, which
:14:20. > :14:27.makes you feel that this is more of a turf war than principle. I think
:14:28. > :14:32.it is ideological. I genuinely think and whether he went about it in the
:14:33. > :14:38.right way is arguable, but I think Iain Duncan Smith sees cutting
:14:39. > :14:43.welfare and encouraging people into work as a good thing. The point is
:14:44. > :14:48.George Osborne has seen the welfare Budget not as something to help
:14:49. > :14:53.people to a better life, but more of a cash cow. The cash cow phrase
:14:54. > :15:00.repeats itself in the papers. Suzanne, the David Laws story. This
:15:01. > :15:06.on another day would be the story we would be talking about because there
:15:07. > :15:10.is the notion that this ?9 billion extra for the NHS we spoke about in
:15:11. > :15:11.the election and I interviewed George Osborne about it, that figure
:15:12. > :15:19.was a fraud. We wondered where the ?9 billion
:15:20. > :15:25.figure had come from during the election, and it now transpires
:15:26. > :15:31.according to the Mail on Sunday, the chief of NHS England says there was
:15:32. > :15:38.a ?16 billion budget black hole but he was gently persuaded to actually
:15:39. > :15:44.get that back to ?8 billion, but it is interesting, it was always NHS
:15:45. > :15:47.figures, Simon Stephens said that was his figure, but maybe that was
:15:48. > :15:53.not the case, and maybe in fact this was a political move. On another day
:15:54. > :15:58.this would have been a very big story, not just relegated to page
:15:59. > :16:01.eight. The lesson of this story, every single figure that dominates
:16:02. > :16:06.these pre-election tax and spend debates should be ignored. You have
:16:07. > :16:12.spent your entire life on this so far, interrogating people, two years
:16:13. > :16:15.before an election, about ?8 billion, ?28 billion for this, but
:16:16. > :16:19.they are all mythical figures that bear no relation to what will
:16:20. > :16:27.happen. I take your point. Very quickly. The last independent on
:16:28. > :16:31.Sunday, many good things in this, and an interview with David Cameron
:16:32. > :16:37.which I think has been slightly underplayed, this is fascinating.
:16:38. > :16:42.David Cameron starts talking about how close this Brexit campaign could
:16:43. > :16:49.come and how dependent it will be as ever on turnout and the degree to
:16:50. > :16:52.which people get out to vote. It is a significant moment because there
:16:53. > :16:58.is no pretence that this will be an easy one-sided campaign. Evidently
:16:59. > :17:06.it isn't. This is the Prime Minister saying. "My fear is the turnout, I
:17:07. > :17:12.will let other people make the choice whether we stay or not, but
:17:13. > :17:20.it will be close, no doubt about it" . He is going to say it is very
:17:21. > :17:25.close, interesting. They are very worried about it. And now to the
:17:26. > :17:27.Independent on Sunday, it never cut through to the mainstream, but is
:17:28. > :17:33.adorned by some of the finest writers we have. Very sorry to see
:17:34. > :17:41.it go, it is always sad when a newspaper goes. Yes, it's a stylish
:17:42. > :17:45.front page, as well. They were always one for the stylish covers
:17:46. > :17:51.and that is a rather beautiful and elegant front cover. The me, the
:17:52. > :17:56.standout one is the Hutton report, the white page and the word,
:17:57. > :18:04.whitewash, that was brilliant -- for me. How would you feel? Former
:18:05. > :18:09.editor. I feel very disappointed. I love many of its writers, many
:18:10. > :18:15.people that I will have to read online, and that is not the same, I
:18:16. > :18:17.want a coffee beside a paper, but on that note, that is it for now,
:18:18. > :18:20.thanks for joining us. Political memoirs tend to be
:18:21. > :18:22.written fast these days - and that's certainly
:18:23. > :18:24.the case with David Laws, the former Lib Dem minister whose
:18:25. > :18:27.inside story of the Coalition years is being serialised,
:18:28. > :18:29.as we've just heard, He worked at the Treasury
:18:30. > :18:32.with George Osborne, and later as an Education Minister,
:18:33. > :18:42.and was a confidant of Nick Clegg. This book is heavily based on Nick
:18:43. > :18:46.Clegg's notes at the time? No, it is based on my recollections from
:18:47. > :18:49.government diaries and records that I kept. You knew many of these
:18:50. > :18:50.people pretty well, what is I kept. You knew many of these
:18:51. > :18:54.take on what is going on at the I kept. You knew many of these
:18:55. > :18:54.moment, is this a coup against David Cameron?
:18:55. > :19:02.moment, is this a coup against David you about what is happening in
:19:03. > :19:05.moment, is this a coup against David government at the moment, but I can
:19:06. > :19:09.tell you what happened when we were in coalition, and there are a couple
:19:10. > :19:12.of points I would make. No secret that Iain Duncan Smith and George
:19:13. > :19:15.Osborne are not close politically and they will never go on holiday
:19:16. > :19:20.together, but more seriously there was a running sore throughout the
:19:21. > :19:25.coalition over welfare policy, George Osborne it is fair to say,
:19:26. > :19:30.regarded the welfare budget as a cash cow to be squeezed in order to
:19:31. > :19:34.help deliver deficit reduction. Iain Duncan Smith had a different view,
:19:35. > :19:38.he was not left wing over welfare and welfare cuts, but he saw much
:19:39. > :19:41.more the purpose of the welfare reform, to help people into
:19:42. > :19:47.employment, and he was often opposed to cuts that the Treasury were
:19:48. > :19:50.proposing, and he had the help in coalition that often the Treasury
:19:51. > :19:55.proposals were vetoed by Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats, but when
:19:56. > :19:59.the Coalition Government was over, his position and his ability to see
:20:00. > :20:12.of those cuts was much of juiced. You don't see him as a hard right
:20:13. > :20:15.figure? -- much reduced. He is no lefty, and many of the cuts
:20:16. > :20:19.proposals he was willing to sign up to, those that we delivered, and he
:20:20. > :20:23.understood the need to make reductions to the welfare budget,
:20:24. > :20:27.but he was concerned about some of the proposals that came from the
:20:28. > :20:30.Treasury, many of the ones that we vetoed as Liberal Democrats, and his
:20:31. > :20:35.purpose of going to welfare was this moral purpose of wanting to help
:20:36. > :20:42.people back into employment, that is what he was there for. George
:20:43. > :20:47.Osborne, as the Chancellor, he wanted the cash and he also wanted
:20:48. > :20:51.the political dividing line between Labour standing up for welfare and
:20:52. > :20:54.the Tory party cutting it, and so they came at the welfare issue from
:20:55. > :20:58.a different perspective and it was no secret that they were not allies
:20:59. > :21:02.on many of the issues. You say you cannot talk about the events of the
:21:03. > :21:08.last few weeks, but you say that David Cameron was petrified of Boris
:21:09. > :21:14.Johnson and thought he was only after his job, how real are those
:21:15. > :21:17.tensions? Now they are huge, and I hate to intrude into this civil war
:21:18. > :21:28.which is now dominating British politics. Go on... Intrude away. It
:21:29. > :21:32.was quite clear in 2012 and 2013, the Tories were very low in the
:21:33. > :21:35.polls and the economy was flat-lining, and David Cameron and
:21:36. > :21:39.George Osborne spend a lot of time worrying about Boris Johnson, who
:21:40. > :21:42.clearly has great hopes of becoming Prime Minister, but we don't know
:21:43. > :21:45.what he would do if he ever became Prime Minister, but we know he's
:21:46. > :21:52.very ambitious for the job. They spent time worrying about Matt.
:21:53. > :22:00.There's a long tradition in British politics, when things get very
:22:01. > :22:08.tough, BT people go away -- worrying about that. Boris Johnson is skiing
:22:09. > :22:11.at the moment. Very handy. What about the NHS budget, you said Simon
:22:12. > :22:17.Stephens had said to George Osborne and David Cameron that he needed ?16
:22:18. > :22:22.billion a year for the NHS to survive in its current state. It is
:22:23. > :22:26.clear there were huge pressures on the NHS budget, and our main focus
:22:27. > :22:30.was getting more money for the NHS in the last year of the coalition
:22:31. > :22:34.2015 and Simon Stephens, the chief executive of the NHS, went off to do
:22:35. > :22:38.his own piece of work, looking at how much the NHS needed over the
:22:39. > :22:43.next five years in this Parliament, basically. He came up with a figure
:22:44. > :22:47.of ?30 billion which was about right and he reckoned half of that could
:22:48. > :22:52.be made in efficiency savings and that he needed the other ?15 billion
:22:53. > :22:55.from the Treasury. The problem is, when he took that figure to the
:22:56. > :22:59.Conservatives at number ten, they said, there is no way the Chancellor
:23:00. > :23:02.and the Prime Minister will sign up to that figure and you have got to
:23:03. > :23:06.get the figure down if you want to be taken seriously. You have got to
:23:07. > :23:11.increase the efficiency savings, he did that, reducing the demand to ?8
:23:12. > :23:16.billion, but as a consequence we have the NHS needing to make in this
:23:17. > :23:20.Parliament three times the rate of efficiency savings that it has made
:23:21. > :23:23.in the last 20-30 years and I do not think they can deliver that, and
:23:24. > :23:28.those assumptions have got to be reviewed. Otherwise the NHS will
:23:29. > :23:35.gradually decline in terms of its standards over the Parliament. What
:23:36. > :23:39.you are saying, to be clear, Simon Stephens was strong armed by the
:23:40. > :23:41.government to cut by half is estimate of what the NHS really
:23:42. > :23:48.needed and that therefore this ?8 billion figure which we were talking
:23:49. > :23:51.about at the time, I remember interviewing George Osborne about
:23:52. > :23:55.this, but this is actually a fantasy figure which was plucked from the
:23:56. > :24:00.air? I am saying that. Simon did a good job for the NHS, changing the
:24:01. > :24:04.terms of the debate, getting the political parties to commit to the
:24:05. > :24:10.extra ?8 billion, but he had to make compromises and as a consequence, it
:24:11. > :24:17.was put into the public domain that the sense was that ?8 billion was
:24:18. > :24:22.what the NHS needed, but actually it needs more than that. We were being
:24:23. > :24:26.told that this was the figure from the NHS and they are going to give
:24:27. > :24:34.them all at once, how'd you characterise that? -- all it wants.
:24:35. > :24:39.This was not a government document, but when the NHS had said that was
:24:40. > :24:42.the figure they wanted, the inclination was Bobby parties to
:24:43. > :24:46.sign up to that and no more, but our own spokesman Norman Lamb had
:24:47. > :24:53.concerns about this and he wrote to the other parties in January 2015
:24:54. > :24:56.and he suggested that we now need a proper independent review of NHS
:24:57. > :25:02.finances in the future, not prejudiced by government pressure on
:25:03. > :25:05.the head of the NHS, so we understand what the real efficiency
:25:06. > :25:08.savings can be. Simon Stephens is one of the most respected public
:25:09. > :25:13.figures outside of government, in the country, respected by all
:25:14. > :25:19.political parties, you are saying that he caved and gave in, that is a
:25:20. > :25:24.serious thing to say. He allowed himself to be bullied. He put on the
:25:25. > :25:28.agenda the need to increase the NHS budget when at the time or the
:25:29. > :25:35.political parties were only signing up to protection of the budget --
:25:36. > :25:38.all. Sometimes people make compromises in order to move things
:25:39. > :25:44.on, and I'm not criticising Simon, I think he was lent on. One of the
:25:45. > :25:48.things I can do through this book is expose this so we can have a proper
:25:49. > :25:54.debate about what the NHS budget should be in the next few years. One
:25:55. > :25:58.final thought, George Osborne has been much criticised, he offered you
:25:59. > :26:02.a generous deal, he said, let's have a coupon election and let's stand as
:26:03. > :26:06.the coalition and we will make Conservatives stand down in key
:26:07. > :26:10.Liberal Democrats seats and we will not take you on in our marginal
:26:11. > :26:14.seats, if that had happened you might have 50 MPs and still be in
:26:15. > :26:19.government. That must go down as one of the biggest political
:26:20. > :26:25.misjudgements in the 20th century. It looks attractive from a
:26:26. > :26:28.historical perspective, the Conservatives were worried about
:26:29. > :26:32.getting re-elected at that point, and the problem with saying yes to
:26:33. > :26:37.an offer like that, that would have turned the Liberal Democrats into an
:26:38. > :26:42.annex of the Conservatives mansion, and I think it would have had a bad
:26:43. > :26:49.impact. David Laws, thanks for joining us. Spring seems to be here,
:26:50. > :26:54.but it is very cold indeed. Matt Taylor is in the weather studio.
:26:55. > :27:02.The weather looks very mixed, very springlike, in fact, we had the
:27:03. > :27:08.spring equinox, and this was a great start in Tynemouth. There is a fly
:27:09. > :27:12.in the ointment, showers running down the eastern coastal strip
:27:13. > :27:22.during this morning and into the afternoon, but either side, Ryan
:27:23. > :27:25.Slowik -- dry and sunny. There is more sunshine in England and Wales
:27:26. > :27:33.compare with yesterday, sunniest in Scotland and Northern Ireland, highs
:27:34. > :27:37.of around 14 degrees. Tonight temperatures will be affected by the
:27:38. > :27:42.cloud, but they will be some frost around tomorrow morning. Thicker
:27:43. > :27:48.cloud in the North of England, some spots of rain, that will push south.
:27:49. > :27:53.It will be brightening up in northern England and not bad across
:27:54. > :27:58.eastern Scotland. The westerly wind will bring more cloud and a few
:27:59. > :28:02.showers around. That will lift temperatures, and that is a sign for
:28:03. > :28:08.the rest of the week, expect much more changeable weather in the run
:28:09. > :28:18.up to Easter. Do not roll out sunny days. Typical spring weather.
:28:19. > :28:21.in her Hollywood career - Fatal Attraction, Dangerous
:28:22. > :28:24.Liaisons, and of course a very camp and funny Cruella de Vil.
:28:25. > :28:26.But it's as a faded silver screen star that she's back
:28:27. > :28:43.The musical is based on the classic film about fame,
:28:44. > :28:46.# With one look I can break your heart.
:28:47. > :29:06.It's a huge luxury to be able to revisit a part as iconic
:29:07. > :29:10.as Norma Desmond, with 20 years of life under my belt.
:29:11. > :29:13.I feel totally different, I feel totally fresh.
:29:14. > :29:17.Tell me about the Norma Desmond you will do now as compared with one
:29:18. > :29:27.I think I've just felt deeper into who she is.
:29:28. > :29:30.I think the character is more interesting,
:29:31. > :29:43.You have been haunted by her since you played
:29:44. > :29:53.It is one of the great roles written.
:29:54. > :29:55.It is a brilliant story written by Billy
:29:56. > :30:00.Once you've created a character like that, it is hard to find
:30:01. > :30:09.To be able to flex my creative muscle again and go into all
:30:10. > :30:12.different areas of this character, because it can take it.
:30:13. > :30:17.She is the great diva played originally by Gloria
:30:18. > :30:20.Swanson, who was only 50 when she played her,
:30:21. > :30:22.as somebody at the end of her career.
:30:23. > :30:29.Is she in some respects mentally ill?
:30:30. > :30:43.I think she might have elements of bipolar.
:30:44. > :30:52.I think she has definitely high, high highs and low, low lows.
:30:53. > :30:54.Talking about characters on the edge, let's talk about Alex
:30:55. > :31:01.You have said subsequently you wished you had not
:31:02. > :31:04.played Alex quite that way, or you think that bunny boiler
:31:05. > :31:07.thing, which is put on a lot of women in this country,
:31:08. > :31:13.When I researched the part and I did a lot of research -
:31:14. > :31:18.going to psychiatrists - no one ever suggested she might have
:31:19. > :31:25.some sort of mental imbalance, disorder.
:31:26. > :31:28.There have been doctors in the field who have used that performance,
:31:29. > :31:30.they told me, as an extreme version of borderline
:31:31. > :31:36.I think if I was presented with that character now,
:31:37. > :31:40.I'd want to have a little bit more in the story about how
:31:41. > :31:50.She is not an evil person, she is a fragile person
:31:51. > :31:56.You have played a lot of tough, edgy women in your time.
:31:57. > :32:03.Cruella de Vil, the character you play in the TV series Damages,
:32:04. > :32:07.who is a very scary woman indeed, very angry.
:32:08. > :32:09.Do you look at your agent and say, can
:32:10. > :32:12.you bring me someone gentle, motherly and slightly herbivorous?
:32:13. > :32:22.I think a lot of those characters are incredibly interesting.
:32:23. > :32:26.As long as I get a bit of balance and parts that engage me that
:32:27. > :32:31.We've talked about various people with big
:32:32. > :32:34.hair and a lot of anger, which leads me to Donald Trump.
:32:35. > :32:38.It has been said some Americans would want to leave
:32:39. > :32:41.America if that happened, if he happened as president.
:32:42. > :32:43.All I would say is that London is very
:32:44. > :32:53.I think it is fascinating from a news standpoint.
:32:54. > :32:56.Terribly frightening as far as our democracy is concerned.
:32:57. > :32:58.I hope our country has the backbone to deal
:32:59. > :33:06.Democracy is a very delicate way of governing.
:33:07. > :33:10.Looking from the outside, as a non-American, it is puzzling,
:33:11. > :33:14.because America is one of the few places where the economy is growing,
:33:15. > :33:18.and yet the country is awash with anger, and from the outside
:33:19. > :33:21.it is hard to see where the anger is coming from.
:33:22. > :33:24.I think the anger, personally, came from the Bush
:33:25. > :33:32.I think they fed that feeling into the kind of body
:33:33. > :33:39.politic and now it is coming to a head.
:33:40. > :33:41.I think it has been years of disruption and, you know,
:33:42. > :33:51.I am not a fan, who had the first negative advertising on television.
:33:52. > :33:59.And Sunset Boulevard is at the ENO's London home,
:34:00. > :34:03.the Coliseum, from the 1st of April until the 7th of May.
:34:04. > :34:05.Well, Iain Duncan Smith's resignation from the Cabinet
:34:06. > :34:08.on Friday night was high drama indeed.
:34:09. > :34:12.No one seems to have seen it coming, least of all the Prime Minister,
:34:13. > :34:18.who said he was "puzzled and disappointed".
:34:19. > :34:19.And he apparently said many other things.
:34:20. > :34:22.So what was the background to Mr Duncan Smith's unexpected move?
:34:23. > :34:24.We can find out now from the man himself.
:34:25. > :34:31.Before we go into detail of this argument, can I ask about your
:34:32. > :34:35.general view of what has happened, do you think the disability cuts in
:34:36. > :34:42.the context of tax cuts are simply immoral? I think what we have is a
:34:43. > :34:46.proposal we put out as a consultation to look at a problem
:34:47. > :34:52.that came about through court cases and judgments that made changes to
:34:53. > :34:55.this and that consultation I always felt was part of a much wider
:34:56. > :35:01.programme that we look at and consult further on big changes that
:35:02. > :35:05.bring into line the present disability benefit Pip and social
:35:06. > :35:09.care and health care. I wanted to look at it as a wider change to get
:35:10. > :35:17.the money and support for those most in need. What happened next? My
:35:18. > :35:24.concern was what happened to directly after the Christmas period
:35:25. > :35:29.was that pressure began to grow because this pressure was about the
:35:30. > :35:33.Budget and the problem over the revised figures for the Budget. What
:35:34. > :35:38.concerned me was we came under pressure to put the consultation and
:35:39. > :35:41.respond to it before the Budget. I had hoped we would do it after the
:35:42. > :35:46.Budget so as not to get caught up with a Budget but make the point it
:35:47. > :35:51.should be part of a process of looking at how better to aid those
:35:52. > :35:55.in need. The pressure was to get out a definitive answer on the
:35:56. > :36:00.consultation. There were arguments and debates about that. Downing
:36:01. > :36:05.Street and the Treasury wanted the extensive changes and we argued that
:36:06. > :36:10.no change first of all and then to ensure that if we do is wanted a
:36:11. > :36:14.smaller level of change but most important to continue the dialogue
:36:15. > :36:18.as not have a fixed point and think we would do absolutely. The
:36:19. > :36:24.difference between before and after the Budget, you knew there would be
:36:25. > :36:28.a figure attached to it. In this case ?1.4 billion of savings and you
:36:29. > :36:33.did not want to be in that position? Not to get to details, I say that
:36:34. > :36:39.the problem was the institution of the welfare cap which was lowered
:36:40. > :36:43.after election arbitrarily and it meant everything we would doing put
:36:44. > :36:46.us above the line. Tax credit changes put us above the line in
:36:47. > :36:52.costs and it was meant to go above the line because of the changes. We
:36:53. > :36:56.should not be debating that in the context of being above a welfare
:36:57. > :37:00.cap, and arbitrate position, we should discuss it in terms of how we
:37:01. > :37:04.could get the best aid to those who most need it and work from there as
:37:05. > :37:09.to how the changes came and rushing it before the Budget, which is what
:37:10. > :37:14.I felt we were under pressure to do, I felt it risked linking this to the
:37:15. > :37:20.Budget which it was not part of an should not have been part of. That
:37:21. > :37:25.in turn made it juxtaposed and at that stage I did not know about tax
:37:26. > :37:30.reductions. Your critics in government save first it was your
:37:31. > :37:35.scheme, the Pip was your idea and revising it was your idea. And you
:37:36. > :37:41.defended it to the last minute, you sat in Cabinet on the Budget and did
:37:42. > :37:47.not raise the problem. Shall I deal with this? Then you did not see the
:37:48. > :37:50.Prime Minister and as late as Friday morning your department were
:37:51. > :37:57.briefing as it were in favour of the changing resigned over. Let me go
:37:58. > :38:01.right back to the election, after the election last year I took a
:38:02. > :38:05.decision, these are decisions you take if you join government, you
:38:06. > :38:09.have to balance whether you can make changes and do what you hope to do
:38:10. > :38:14.and on balance you have to compromise but to those compromise
:38:15. > :38:20.benefit or damage society? I have been passionate about social justice
:38:21. > :38:25.and send set up the Centre for Social Justice to make sure there is
:38:26. > :38:32.a conservative way to and deliver support to those in need. My problem
:38:33. > :38:38.is that it did not start this last week or week before, the debates on
:38:39. > :38:43.tax credits, the cutting away and eroding of universal credit and
:38:44. > :38:50.allowances and the Tabor, which helps people move on up the hours.
:38:51. > :38:54.It is long-running? It has been a long-running problem where I felt
:38:55. > :38:59.detached and isolated in these debates. I am not able to convince
:39:00. > :39:03.people that what we were losing that the narrative that the Conservative
:39:04. > :39:11.Party was a one nation party caring about those who do not necessarily
:39:12. > :39:16.vote for it. That is my problem. You went along with the cuts. In the key
:39:17. > :39:20.Cabinet meeting you did not say anything. I thought last year about
:39:21. > :39:26.resigning and that got into the papers, over the attack on universal
:39:27. > :39:30.credit. Again I balanced it and said I will continue because we can make
:39:31. > :39:35.these arguments. In the run-up, I got more and more depressed about
:39:36. > :39:40.the idea we were running to an arbitrary Budget agenda that had a
:39:41. > :39:46.welfare cap. I have heard people try to allege certain things about me.
:39:47. > :39:50.This is quite important. I sat silently at eight o'clock of the
:39:51. > :39:54.morning of the Budget because I realised the state of what was
:39:55. > :40:01.happening with regards to the tax cuts and this juxtaposing. It was
:40:02. > :40:07.juxtaposing that made me go away. I did not come in for the Budget, the
:40:08. > :40:12.pictures are an old Budget. I was attending a funeral. It gave me time
:40:13. > :40:17.to think and I fought hard. I tried to agree with Downing Street that
:40:18. > :40:22.will be put out was a wider statement that stopped it being a
:40:23. > :40:26.concrete proposal, that we would continue to consult, but with that,
:40:27. > :40:30.the point of the statement I put out, to say we will continue
:40:31. > :40:36.consulting. This is the letter you wrote after the Budget. I tried to
:40:37. > :40:41.say it is not what it sounds like in the Budget. I said it was a wider
:40:42. > :40:47.consultation and there are issues and wider consequences. What I
:40:48. > :40:53.realised through Thursday and Friday, there was no way that what I
:40:54. > :41:00.hoped for, to stop the processing get the wide debate. I felt I was
:41:01. > :41:07.losing that. By Friday, I decided it was impossible. The ideas put about,
:41:08. > :41:14.why do that when policy is... I was about to ask you. It is a peculiar
:41:15. > :41:18.way to set policy against a media agenda when you start Friday morning
:41:19. > :41:23.apparently saying you must go out and defend it and by Friday evening
:41:24. > :41:27.you are drifting away from it and later on Friday you say we have
:41:28. > :41:31.kicked it into the long grass. The money required from the Department
:41:32. > :41:37.for Work and Pensions still sits in the red book and will bear down on
:41:38. > :41:41.working age benefits and that is the problem I have. In my letter I was
:41:42. > :41:45.clear about this which was the reason I resigned. I had come to
:41:46. > :41:50.believe we had begun to lose our sense that if we want to do this, so
:41:51. > :41:55.all people bear this and those who cannot bear least of the burden, we
:41:56. > :42:00.are losing the message, and that was my concern. It was not about Friday
:42:01. > :42:11.night or Wednesday, it was a sense from the last election we had begun
:42:12. > :42:13.to abandon that position which I thought would narrow us and the
:42:14. > :42:16.party I love and country I love would not benefit. I wanted us to
:42:17. > :42:22.govern for all of the people all of the time. Do you think it is an
:42:23. > :42:26.unfair or immoral situation because you are cutting taxes for the better
:42:27. > :42:31.off at the same time as cutting benefits for disabled people?
:42:32. > :42:35.Juxtaposed as it came through in the Budget it is deeply unfair and was
:42:36. > :42:42.perceived to be unfair and that is damaging to the government, to the
:42:43. > :42:46.party, it is damaging to the public. I am in politics, I am passionate,
:42:47. > :42:52.whatever people who disagree with me about my policies, it has been said
:42:53. > :42:56.earlier, I am passionate about trying to improve the quality of the
:42:57. > :43:02.those in difficult circumstances. I want to do that and want my party to
:43:03. > :43:05.do that but I felt I am losing my ability to influence that and that
:43:06. > :43:10.is where the culmination of this came to by Friday. I consulted with
:43:11. > :43:17.everybody and I felt I was not getting the message across. Among a
:43:18. > :43:21.lot of disabled campaigners there will be hollow laughter because they
:43:22. > :43:27.see you as the man who supported things like the benefits cap, the
:43:28. > :43:31.bedroom tax, lots of things that have caused hardship to people at
:43:32. > :43:35.the bottom of the heap? They see you as the bad guy and find it hard to
:43:36. > :43:44.see you as the great reformer and champion. We have spent a lot trying
:43:45. > :43:48.to even out proposals and policies, such as discretionary housing
:43:49. > :43:52.payments, massively increased at my request from the Treasury so people
:43:53. > :43:56.who had difficult problems, local authorities could give the more
:43:57. > :44:05.money and support them. We exempted disability benefits. DS a row was a
:44:06. > :44:13.row to do with the run-in I am talking about from the search for
:44:14. > :44:18.savings and my concern is there are reforms that are important and good.
:44:19. > :44:25.Were you against what happened on ES a? My sense was we want more people
:44:26. > :44:29.to be in the support group where they are protected and supported
:44:30. > :44:33.with higher levels of money and not to be languishing in a section of
:44:34. > :44:38.the benefit unable to go to work or to be fully supported. I have argued
:44:39. > :44:41.for a White Paper to get rid of a binary system that says you are
:44:42. > :44:47.either too sick to work or you can work. I want people if they can work
:44:48. > :44:53.to work. Those with the changes I wanted to bring forward. Do you
:44:54. > :44:57.think a fairer government would have taken some of the benefits from
:44:58. > :45:05.richer pensioners, might not have done the triple lock, to avoid these
:45:06. > :45:06.cuts? My concern, it is all about how we are perceived and how the
:45:07. > :45:16.balance is right. It is important how people perceive
:45:17. > :45:20.that balance to be, and then an application how that balance is
:45:21. > :45:24.made. My concern is that this limited, narrow attack on working
:45:25. > :45:28.age benefit means that we simply don't get the balance, we lose the
:45:29. > :45:32.balance of the generations. We have a triple lock on pensions, which I
:45:33. > :45:37.was proud to do six years ago, and with inflation running at sea row we
:45:38. > :45:41.really need to look at things like this and ask, do we just keep saying
:45:42. > :45:51.it is working age that bear the brunt -- with inflation running at
:45:52. > :45:56.zero. We will have taken ?33 billion a year by 19/20, I think it is going
:45:57. > :46:01.to far. The straw that broke your back? Mike Hesson my countrymen and
:46:02. > :46:04.women leads me to believe that I am resigning because I want my
:46:05. > :46:08.Government to think again about this and get back to a position that I
:46:09. > :46:13.believe, about being one nation. This is not an attempt to attack the
:46:14. > :46:17.Prime Minister or about Europe, nothing to do with that. If I wanted
:46:18. > :46:23.to do that, I would have been clear. I have never, ever hid my views, I
:46:24. > :46:27.am not doing that now. Did he call you hypocritical and something
:46:28. > :46:32.worse? There were only two macro people engaged in this conversation,
:46:33. > :46:36.I am always interested when people not in the conversation seemed to
:46:37. > :46:40.know about what happened. It was robust, we had a long set of
:46:41. > :46:46.conversations, I listened to him, I acted on what he asked me to do, to
:46:47. > :46:50.think about things, but I simply could not stay. I am proud to serve
:46:51. > :46:53.with the Prime Minister, proud of what we have achieved in the last
:46:54. > :46:56.five or six years, but my sense is that I believe I am losing the
:46:57. > :47:03.ability to influence events from inside, to change the direction to
:47:04. > :47:07.become, as we should be, a one nation party to carry about even
:47:08. > :47:12.those who do not votes four hours. In your letter you say, I am unable
:47:13. > :47:15.to watch passively while certain policies are enacted in order to
:47:16. > :47:19.meet the fiscal self-imposed restraints that you think are more
:47:20. > :47:24.elliptical than for the good of the country. Are you saying you are
:47:25. > :47:32.against the welfare cuts? In short, yes. My concern has grown partly
:47:33. > :47:37.because when the welfare cup was brought in a tad more flexibility,
:47:38. > :47:45.after the next election it was -- last election it was lowered, which
:47:46. > :47:49.put us under enormous pressure. What about the general policy of ending
:47:50. > :47:53.this parliament with a surplus, the overarching thing behind this all?
:47:54. > :47:58.The Chancellor has to make his position clear about what he thinks
:47:59. > :48:02.the economy should be doing. I am a big supporter of the fact that if
:48:03. > :48:08.you don't eradicate the deficit, the people who suffer most are those on
:48:09. > :48:11.the lowest incomes and we have raised taxation thresholds for those
:48:12. > :48:15.on the lowest income, which I am supportive. We need to get the
:48:16. > :48:18.deficits down but we need to make sure we widened the scope of where
:48:19. > :48:22.we look to get the deficit down, not just narrow it down on working age
:48:23. > :48:26.benefits. There is a reason for that. It just looks like we see
:48:27. > :48:31.that, otherwise, as a pot of money, it does not matter because they do
:48:32. > :48:35.not votes follows. That is my concern, they are people that I want
:48:36. > :48:39.to get into work. We have done a lot to do that and to change their
:48:40. > :48:47.lives. So you think the Chancellor is wrong on the welfare cap, he has
:48:48. > :48:51.been protecting, as it were, better offer voters at the expense of the
:48:52. > :48:55.more vulnerable? These are a series of body blows to the Chancellor. Can
:48:56. > :48:59.I put it to you, you don't like him, he doesn't like you, this has
:49:00. > :49:02.simmered for years and years, you heard people earlier say this is the
:49:03. > :49:08.beginning of a coup against George Osborne David Cameron. This is not
:49:09. > :49:13.personal. People may think it is, because when you resign it is
:49:14. > :49:16.personal, it is not. I have no personal ambitions, Andrew,
:49:17. > :49:21.absolutely no personal ambitions. If I never go back into Government
:49:22. > :49:26.again, I will not cry about it. That is not my ambition. Let me be clear,
:49:27. > :49:30.I came into this Government because I cared about Welfare Reform Bill. I
:49:31. > :49:34.had spent eight years with the Centre for Social Justice, which I
:49:35. > :49:38.set up, talking to charities and small community groups, trying to
:49:39. > :49:42.figure out why certain communities were so badly off, how could we get
:49:43. > :49:47.them back to work can solve their problems? Everything I have done has
:49:48. > :49:50.been driven by desire to improve quality-of-life for the worse off.
:49:51. > :49:55.You can debate my policies but that has always been my motivation.
:49:56. > :49:59.Without any question in my mind, my motive is that I am concerned that
:50:00. > :50:03.this Government, which I want to succeed, is not able to do the kind
:50:04. > :50:07.of things it should because it has become too focused narrowly getting
:50:08. > :50:12.the deficit down without being able to say where it should fall other
:50:13. > :50:18.than simply on those who I think car and less afford to have that fall on
:50:19. > :50:21.them. The oppression is given bad things are run entirely by the
:50:22. > :50:26.Treasury and by number ten, Jacob Rees Mogg has effectively said that
:50:27. > :50:30.Cabinet Government needs to be re-established. Do you think there
:50:31. > :50:33.is a functional problem? Some people have called them and ten deck
:50:34. > :50:42.running the country, the rest of you squeezed out. -- some people have
:50:43. > :50:48.called them Ant and Dec. We have talked about this benefit changing
:50:49. > :50:51.literally by hour. I was not. The Friday, I did not know anything
:50:52. > :50:56.until the media started ringing me and telling me. This is not a way to
:50:57. > :51:00.do Government. I want the Chancellor and the Prime Minister to succeed. I
:51:01. > :51:05.want them to succeed because Britain needs them to. We need to get the
:51:06. > :51:09.deficit down and we need to get welfare reform going. But you are
:51:10. > :51:13.saying they need to change direction and the way they run Government in
:51:14. > :51:20.order to succeed? What is in my letter and what I am trying to say
:51:21. > :51:24.today, don't doubt my motive. I am not about seeing the Prime Minister
:51:25. > :51:30.depart, I genuinely am not. If there was a votes tomorrow, I would votes
:51:31. > :51:33.for him. I want the team to succeed as a one nation team, as a team that
:51:34. > :51:39.I came to join believing that social justice was right up heart of what
:51:40. > :51:42.he did. We can debate how that is delivered, but we should not debate
:51:43. > :51:46.that what we should be trying to do is not keep bearing down on the same
:51:47. > :51:50.group of people, white matte and talk about sharing the burden of bit
:51:51. > :51:55.more, making sure that the reform process can take pace without being
:51:56. > :52:00.hamstrung to demands for short-term savings all the time when things
:52:01. > :52:03.don't go right, according to the forecast. Do you think George
:52:04. > :52:08.Osborne would make a good Prime Minister? Sorry, I missed that. Do
:52:09. > :52:12.you think George Osborne would make a good Prime Minister? If he stood,
:52:13. > :52:17.and was selected by the electorate, I would hope that he would. I think
:52:18. > :52:20.the same for almost everybody else. I have no view about anybody to be
:52:21. > :52:26.Prime Minister, the Prime Minister is there a moment. I have a high
:52:27. > :52:30.regard for him. I think he has done a very good job but I believe they
:52:31. > :52:35.are losing sight of the direction of travel but they should be in. To be
:52:36. > :52:40.clear, all those people who say, in the end, there is a move against
:52:41. > :52:44.Cameron and Osborne by Eurosceptic ministers who were using this
:52:45. > :52:48.opportunity when the party seems a bit fragmented and in trouble to
:52:49. > :52:52.mount something against him and Boris Johnson is there in the
:52:53. > :52:58.background, you are saying that is piffle? It is nonsense, it is
:52:59. > :53:01.nonsense and what I am about. Let me say one briefing, I served in the
:53:02. > :53:05.Army because I care about my country and the people who live here, I came
:53:06. > :53:10.into politics because I care about my country and the people who live
:53:11. > :53:13.here. I do not have political ambition, I would not stand for
:53:14. > :53:18.leader, I would not support somebody who stands for the reader at the
:53:19. > :53:22.moment, I am supportive of the Prime Minister. I care for one thing and
:53:23. > :53:27.one thing only. People who do not get the choices that my children get
:53:28. > :53:31.left behind, I do not want that, I want them to get the opportunity.
:53:32. > :53:34.Yes, we can debate some of the things that people did not like
:53:35. > :53:38.because they are more about the deficit in Welfare Reform Bill, but
:53:39. > :53:42.overarching Lee I am passionate about getting much reform done so
:53:43. > :53:46.that society is reformed, so that we have more of those people who have
:53:47. > :53:49.been left behind brought back into the sphere and the arena where we
:53:50. > :53:56.play daily but they do not. That is what I am about. I have raced time
:53:57. > :54:00.and again that we are beginning to lose that focus, I cannot do this
:54:01. > :54:05.from inside, I believe I had to step out. It is painful to resign, I
:54:06. > :54:10.don't want to, but I am resigning because I think it is the only way I
:54:11. > :54:13.could do this. Right back to the beginning of our conversation, what
:54:14. > :54:18.is happening at the moment is immoral? I think it is in danger of
:54:19. > :54:22.drifting in a direction that divide society rather than United, I think
:54:23. > :54:26.it is unfair. I am not in the business of morale at it, I leave
:54:27. > :54:31.that to churchmen. But as far as I am concerned, risk as their -- I am
:54:32. > :54:39.not in the business of morale at you. I resigned, I said I would
:54:40. > :54:42.rather campaign to change that. I want the Prime Minister and the
:54:43. > :54:48.Chancellor to continue to do that for the right reasons. Those are my
:54:49. > :54:49.passionate cares. Iain Duncan Smith, thank you very much. Nothing quiet
:54:50. > :54:50.about that. Now over to Naga for
:54:51. > :54:52.the news headlines. In his first interview
:54:53. > :54:54.since he dramatically resigned on Friday night, Iain Duncan Smith
:54:55. > :54:57.has been explaining his reasons for deciding to leave
:54:58. > :54:58.the government. The former Work and Pensions
:54:59. > :55:00.Secretary said he had been increasingly concerned
:55:01. > :55:02.about being asked to make cuts to benefits, because of
:55:03. > :55:05.what he described as the arbitrary cap set by the Treasury
:55:06. > :55:08.on welfare spending. He confirmed he had considered
:55:09. > :55:22.resigning last year. This has been a long-running problem
:55:23. > :55:25.where I felt semidetached, in a sense, isolated, more often, because
:55:26. > :55:29.I am not able to convince people that what we were losing,
:55:30. > :55:33.progressively, and this was my worry, was the narrative that the
:55:34. > :55:37.Conservative Party was a one nation party caring about those who don't
:55:38. > :55:38.even necessarily vote four, and who may never votes for us.
:55:39. > :55:41.Mr Duncan Smith was speaking after his former colleague,
:55:42. > :55:42.the Pensions Minister, launched a highly personal attack
:55:43. > :55:46.Ros Altmann said he had been difficult to work with,
:55:47. > :55:52.and had silenced and undermined her when she tried to influence policy.
:55:53. > :55:58.She questioned whether unhappiness about welfare changes was his real
:55:59. > :56:03.motivation for resigning. I honestly don't think this is about reform, I
:56:04. > :56:09.think it is about the EU, and he has been looking for a reason to go, and
:56:10. > :56:13.has used this as the reason. It is very odd timing if you announce your
:56:14. > :56:16.resignation on a point of runcible after the point on which you said
:56:17. > :56:18.you were resigning had already been conceded.
:56:19. > :56:21.The next news on BBC One is at 1 o'clock.
:56:22. > :56:25.First, let's have a look at what's coming up immediately
:56:26. > :56:34.Join us live from Brighton at 10am Webby will all be in it together,
:56:35. > :56:41.debating if Asus IT should be judged by its treatment of the fortunate.
:56:42. > :56:45.-- if a society. As the time come to take climate change seriously? And
:56:46. > :56:46.should more religions have a voice in Parliament. See you at 10am on
:56:47. > :56:47.BBC One. Andrew Neil will be talking
:56:48. > :56:52.to Labour's Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Owen Smith
:56:53. > :56:54.on the Sunday Politics, We're taking a break
:56:55. > :56:57.next Sunday for Easter. But we'll be back
:56:58. > :56:59.on the 3rd of April. Until then, we leave you with one
:57:00. > :57:02.of the most distinctive singer This is Natalie Merchant
:57:03. > :57:06.and Where I Go. # Well, I go over to
:57:07. > :57:36.the river to soothe my mind # To ponder over the
:57:37. > :57:41.crazy days of my life # In the willow tree,
:57:42. > :58:04.in the branches hanging # Well, I go to the river
:58:05. > :58:12.to soothe my mind # To ponder over the
:58:13. > :58:21.crazy days of my life # Watch the river flow,
:58:22. > :58:23.ease my mind and soul # Watch the river flow
:58:24. > :58:32.where the willow branches grow # By the cool rolling waters,
:58:33. > :58:38.moving gracefully and slow # Just let the river
:58:39. > :59:32.take them all away # All away.
:59:33. > :59:34.APPLAUSE