:00:00. > :00:08.This was a country which led the world in an industrial
:00:09. > :00:15.Within weeks we could be out of both - almost completely.
:00:16. > :00:17.The cost of protecting British steel looks horrendous.
:00:18. > :00:36.The cost of doing nothing looks even worse.
:00:37. > :00:40.The man at the centre of the storm - now back from Australia -
:00:41. > :00:44.the Business Secretary, Sajid Javid, is with me.
:00:45. > :00:47.Have he and his colleagues been naive about the realities of world
:00:48. > :00:54.Labour's John McDonnell says it's simple -
:00:55. > :00:57.But how much would that cost the rest of us,
:00:58. > :01:05.So it's quite refreshing that for once in our papers review,
:01:06. > :01:09.we're going to be talking about heavy industry.
:01:10. > :01:13.Paul Mason, a long-time TV economics correspondent much admired
:01:14. > :01:18.Allison Pearson, Daily Telegraph columnist, novelist and South
:01:19. > :01:22.And Stephanie Flanders, once of this parish,
:01:23. > :01:28.And from steel to Irons - Jeremy Irons has been telling me why
:01:29. > :01:32.he'd buy a ticket to watch the new Batman versus
:01:33. > :01:43.I might go and see this one because I am in it.
:01:44. > :01:45.And we've got not one but two world class pianists playing Faure
:01:46. > :01:57.as you may not have heard him before.
:01:58. > :02:06.New allegations have emerged of doping at the top levels
:02:07. > :02:11.An undercover investigation by the Sunday Times newspaper has
:02:12. > :02:14.filmed a private doctor claiming to have provided hundreds of sports
:02:15. > :02:17.stars with performance enhancing drugs.
:02:18. > :02:19.The Government has ordered an inquiry into the way the UK
:02:20. > :02:23.Anti-Doping Agency has handled the claims after they were
:02:24. > :02:26.approached by a whistle blower two years ago.
:02:27. > :02:37.The Sunday Times says it sent an aspiring Olympic runner to film
:02:38. > :02:40.He claimed he had helped more than 150 elite sports people
:02:41. > :02:50.from the worlds of boxing, cricket, tennis, cycling and football.
:02:51. > :02:55.I have never met a clean athlete, ever.
:02:56. > :02:57.The doctor apparently prescribed performance enhancing drugs.
:02:58. > :02:58.The growth hormone has to be injected.
:02:59. > :03:00.Dr Bonar has subsequently denied any wrongdoing,
:03:01. > :03:04.saying he only treats the medical problems of sports people.
:03:05. > :03:06.Obviously some of these treatments I use are banned
:03:07. > :03:19.Having said that, I've worked with lots of professional athletes
:03:20. > :03:28.The UK Anti-Doping Agency confirmed it had started an investigation,
:03:29. > :03:30.but could not pursue it because the doctor was not governed
:03:31. > :03:38.The Culture Secretary said he was deeply shocked and concerned
:03:39. > :04:02.The Sunday Times has no independent evidence Dr Mark Bonar treated
:04:03. > :04:07.Those contacted by the paper declined to comment
:04:08. > :04:16.The Government is to require the NHS, local authorities and other
:04:17. > :04:19.public bodies to think seriously of using British steel whenever
:04:20. > :04:24.Public sector bodies will be told to weigh up the impact on jobs
:04:25. > :04:29.and possible harm to the environment if they use foreign steel.
:04:30. > :04:32.The ruling comes as a search continues for buyers of the British
:04:33. > :04:38.operations of Tata Steel, including the Port Talbot works.
:04:39. > :04:41.The body of an amateur sailor who died after being swept overboard
:04:42. > :04:43.in the Pacific Ocean has been buried at sea.
:04:44. > :04:46.40-year-old Sarah Young was taking part in the Clipper Round
:04:47. > :04:52.She wasn't attached to a safety line when a wave hit her
:04:53. > :04:56.Her crewmates carried out a traditional sea burial overnight,
:04:57. > :05:02.and a minute's silence was held by everyone taking part in the race.
:05:03. > :05:04.Brussels Airport is due to reopen today, nearly two weeks
:05:05. > :05:06.after suicide bombers destroyed the departure hall
:05:07. > :05:12.Only three flights are scheduled - a tiny proportion of the more
:05:13. > :05:16.than 600 the airport usually handles each day.
:05:17. > :05:20.Officials say it could take several months before full
:05:21. > :05:35.Over a thousand people attended a tribute concert last night in member
:05:36. > :05:43.-- memory of the band, viola beach. Some of Britain's biggest indie
:05:44. > :05:47.bands performed alongside local bands in Warrington. The four band
:05:48. > :05:49.members and their manager died in a car crash in Sweden in February.
:05:50. > :05:53.I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock.
:05:54. > :06:07.That is the news as seen by the BBC. The news as seen by the newspaper
:06:08. > :06:12.editors, very similar. Congratulations to the Sunday Times
:06:13. > :06:17.on their doping story. A huge amount of red wine appeared on the expense
:06:18. > :06:25.sheets. Money clearly very well spent. The Observer has a poll
:06:26. > :06:27.showing Brexit is ahead in the EU referendum. Particularly worrying
:06:28. > :06:37.for the Prime Minister is that younger voters are in favour of the
:06:38. > :06:43.EU and most likely to vote. The Mail on Sunday has a story about foreign
:06:44. > :06:48.aid. ?172 million was overspent last year. That would have kept Port
:06:49. > :06:51.Talbot going for another six months. The Sunday Telegraph with another
:06:52. > :06:58.aid story. It is about an African estate. The rest of the papers, sex,
:06:59. > :07:05.sex and sex. We will not be talking much about any of them! Allison
:07:06. > :07:09.Pearson, I introduced you as a South Wales woman, and you have is just --
:07:10. > :07:18.chosen a spread in the Observer. This is about the human side. Yes,
:07:19. > :07:24.Stephanie and Paula the economic experts. I am talking about a town I
:07:25. > :07:29.know very well. You have got this giant plant. It is known as the
:07:30. > :07:35.works locally. If you switch it off, you switch off life in that town.
:07:36. > :07:39.People there are already challenged by their circumstances. When they
:07:40. > :07:44.shot the mines. Lots of those communities did not revive. -- shut.
:07:45. > :07:50.There is incredible deprivation. It is a tonne of great spirit. They
:07:51. > :07:54.have produced Rob Brydon, surrounds any Hopkins, Stanley Baker, Sir
:07:55. > :08:02.Richard Burton... It is basically eaten. It is a place of great
:08:03. > :08:07.spirit. But they will kill it. South Wales does not need another kicking.
:08:08. > :08:10.There will be immense hardship and suffering. People from the
:08:11. > :08:16.south-east would not believe the poverty. They need help. Paul has
:08:17. > :08:19.talked a lot about the establishment based in London, the financial
:08:20. > :08:25.services industry not quite getting what is going on down there? It is
:08:26. > :08:30.an ideology that says economics is about much -- economics and market
:08:31. > :08:35.logic determines what happens at Port Talbot. In the papers today, in
:08:36. > :08:39.the Sunday Telegraph, we have got the Tories seeming to come up with
:08:40. > :08:43.the beginning of an industrial policy overnight. The local councils
:08:44. > :08:51.and the NHS will be urged to buy British steel. The keyword is urged.
:08:52. > :09:00.To make them do it you would have two Bend, float or change EU law. --
:09:01. > :09:03.float. We have to, Kraupp with the industrial strategy. Economics
:09:04. > :09:09.should be about people, it should be about producing coherent, nice solid
:09:10. > :09:16.communities. That is why we have economics. Don't the French and
:09:17. > :09:21.Germans bend the rules for their industries anyway? It is not just
:09:22. > :09:24.about bending the rules. If Sergei Javad and George Osborne went to
:09:25. > :09:32.Brussels and said, do not impose protective tariffs on Chinese seal
:09:33. > :09:37.-- steel... This is a protective measure against other people's
:09:38. > :09:42.steel. Why not now change the policy, go back to Brussels and say,
:09:43. > :09:48.slap a tariff on the Chinese? They are flooding the market. Isn't that
:09:49. > :09:54.a fair point? The Chinese are subsidising their steel industry
:09:55. > :09:58.massively? This has been the challenge of geopolitics for the
:09:59. > :10:01.past few decades. People get a lot of benefits from China moving into
:10:02. > :10:08.the global economy, these cheap goods. When we think as consumers,
:10:09. > :10:13.we tended to like these cheap goods. Cheaper cars, cheaper toys etc. But
:10:14. > :10:17.when it is hitting us as producers, it is more challenging. The
:10:18. > :10:20.government has got itself in a pickle if it does not have a
:10:21. > :10:35.strategy on the industrial side but does have a clear strategy on China.
:10:36. > :10:39.The Sunday Telegraph... Right now, the government have to work out what
:10:40. > :10:46.to do with Port Talbot. Whether there is capacity to put it in a
:10:47. > :10:54.holding operation. A steel tycoon has saved number of plants in recent
:10:55. > :10:57.months. He is an amazing guy? Yes. He is saying he has not made a
:10:58. > :11:03.proposition that he is going to buy the whole thing. That is too big a
:11:04. > :11:07.thing. But he does seem to be exploring with the government, can
:11:08. > :11:15.you keep part of this open in order to start thinking about support?
:11:16. > :11:20.What is the strategic point of having a blast furnace in the UK?
:11:21. > :11:25.Part of his idea is that he would get rid of the blast furnaces and
:11:26. > :11:35.move to electric arc furnaces, which use the scrap steel to make new
:11:36. > :11:39.steel. I am not against it. All melting of metal and pouring it into
:11:40. > :11:45.liquid takes a lot of energy. You need in energy policy. Then you need
:11:46. > :11:48.a policy of where it goes. I think a more coherent policy about who buys
:11:49. > :11:52.the steel. This is what John McDonnell is talking about in the
:11:53. > :11:55.Sunday Mirror. They have now come up with a plan. Bring forward some
:11:56. > :12:01.infrastructure projects so we can use the steel on that. They have to
:12:02. > :12:07.take account of national security. You can have national security on
:12:08. > :12:14.foreign ownership. But blast furnaces make are in into steel.
:12:15. > :12:17.That is what they do. -- iron. If you are in a scratchy situation, you
:12:18. > :12:21.have to ask governments to imagine what would happen if we suddenly
:12:22. > :12:25.needed some steel that we could not get from abroad. You have to think
:12:26. > :12:32.about just that and not even the people of Port Talbot. We have a
:12:33. > :12:37.defence industry and a car industry. It makes sense to have a steel
:12:38. > :12:42.industry. If the worst happens and there is a war and we suddenly need
:12:43. > :12:48.to make armaments. These are choices by government. The Mail on Sunday
:12:49. > :12:53.has collided two very different stories. Foreign aid overspending
:12:54. > :12:59.and steel. The Mail on Sunday is running a very interesting campaign,
:13:00. > :13:06.which is against the loony levels of foreign aid. The government
:13:07. > :13:12.committed to paying 0.07. We're one of the few countries that have
:13:13. > :13:17.actually hit the target. There is a sense of time to detoxify the Tory
:13:18. > :13:23.brand. But the mail on Sunday is on its high horse. It has a petition
:13:24. > :13:30.with more than 150,000 signatures. They say that we were spent 172
:13:31. > :13:32.million. The point surely is that it people are thinking if we cannot
:13:33. > :13:37.take care of our own people, what are we doing? Just before we leave
:13:38. > :13:42.the Mail on Sunday, there is an interesting line on Bob Geldof. It
:13:43. > :13:47.is alleged that David Cameron is so scared of him, he has protected the
:13:48. > :13:54.aid budget as a result. Yes, everything has to be run past him!
:13:55. > :13:57.Say what you like about the Welsh steel workers, but they did not
:13:58. > :14:09.bundle of a lot of dodgy mortgages and collapsed the global financial
:14:10. > :14:15.market. 100 billion. Stephanie Flanders, bailed out. You have got a
:14:16. > :14:19.great cartoon from the Sunday Times. Gerald Scarfe. It makes the point we
:14:20. > :14:22.were making area about how all of this is in response to the
:14:23. > :14:28.production that has been coming out of China. We have benefited a lot
:14:29. > :14:35.from Chinese growth over the years. Now they have been pushing a lot of
:14:36. > :14:38.cheap steel onto the global market. We see that threatening to stomp on
:14:39. > :14:46.David Cameron and the Business Secretary. Again it is this issue,
:14:47. > :14:49.the government has said it once a close relationship with China. And
:14:50. > :14:54.every country in the world is struggling with how to maintain it
:14:55. > :14:59.while also stopping these economic consequences. You could have a
:15:00. > :15:02.coherent industrial strategy, and say, we are more interested in all
:15:03. > :15:07.of those steel using manufacturers in the UK, and we have therefore
:15:08. > :15:11.decided to let Reddish steel go hang. That would be caught here and
:15:12. > :15:16.by the government will not say that? If you could have a principled view,
:15:17. > :15:19.for example, against any protectionism, which would put you
:15:20. > :15:27.at odds with part of the EU and other people, but to claim that you
:15:28. > :15:30.are now talking about the march of the makers and that you are in
:15:31. > :15:32.favour of supporting industry and the rebalancing of the UK was doing
:15:33. > :15:42.the opposite, that seems odd. It is becoming a government which
:15:43. > :15:46.says one thing and does another but lurking behind all of that is the
:15:47. > :15:51.relationship with Europe because it is absolutely logical for George
:15:52. > :15:57.Osborne to go and kowtow to China. This has been going on for some time
:15:58. > :16:01.because, because the Conservatives thought that in or out of Europe we
:16:02. > :16:05.are going to need to have bilateral relationships with the big
:16:06. > :16:09.industrial players of the future and that's completely logical. I think a
:16:10. > :16:12.lot of people think that if you do that any free-market way, the
:16:13. > :16:17.Chinese don't believe in the free market, they subsidise everything.
:16:18. > :16:22.They have just put tariffs on a steel plant in south Wales. That
:16:23. > :16:28.will play into this. I want to talk about this, it is quite important.
:16:29. > :16:38.Right now those in favour of Brexit, they are winning according to the
:16:39. > :16:46.latest poll. The old are in favour, more in favour of Brexit and the
:16:47. > :16:49.young are not according to this. That is causing some consternation
:16:50. > :16:54.because we all know young people don't vote a lot but I think we
:16:55. > :16:58.haven't even heard the offer we are going to be aborting on. We will
:16:59. > :17:02.have the same thing as in Scotland, a last-minute offer and then this
:17:03. > :17:09.all up and down will be irrelevant come down to the final week. There
:17:10. > :17:12.is an irony because you have all the people who want to be radicalised,
:17:13. > :17:16.they like the idea of throwing everything into the air and seeing
:17:17. > :17:21.what happens. Young people are being much more sensible in not wanting to
:17:22. > :17:29.put it all at risk. I am in favour of Brexit and I do not like being
:17:30. > :17:32.called older. I should say my 16-year-old son wants to stay
:17:33. > :17:38.because he sees the benefits of being able to go in work in Paris or
:17:39. > :17:43.Berlin. He is going to live with more of the consequences than you
:17:44. > :17:46.are. We are living with the consequences and I am in favour
:17:47. > :17:52.because we cannot take care of our own people, our services are under
:17:53. > :17:56.strain and we have 320,000 people a year coming in, how we are going to
:17:57. > :18:00.look after them? You got into hot water last week when you said that
:18:01. > :18:06.after the Brussels attacks we would be safer physically outside the EU,
:18:07. > :18:12.why did you say that? Because I think it's the case, I think the
:18:13. > :18:16.security services are doing a fantastic job and there are very
:18:17. > :18:22.weak elements in the European security services. And they don't
:18:23. > :18:25.need to cooperate? I think the Belgian police are finding out more
:18:26. > :18:30.from our lot than they are from their own people and there are
:18:31. > :18:36.serious security lapses. Two of the terrorists came to Birmingham in the
:18:37. > :18:39.last two years. Before you say anything I think it is there to say
:18:40. > :18:45.you are broadly speaking on the left and have not yet come out. Broadly
:18:46. > :18:51.speaking? I am absolutely on the radical left. We are fighting
:18:52. > :18:58.bitterly over him, one saying stay and the other saying go. I buy all
:18:59. > :19:02.the principal arguments of leaving. But I think what stays my hand, and
:19:03. > :19:07.I will wait and see what we are offered, is the idea of keystone
:19:08. > :19:13.cops as demonstrated on this being replaced by Boris and Boris gets
:19:14. > :19:19.too, Doris Johnson gets to decide the terms on which we weave -- Boris
:19:20. > :19:23.Johnson gets to decide. This is a point made in other newspapers, if
:19:24. > :19:26.young people don't vote, and if Labour people don't thought we could
:19:27. > :19:30.end up leaving and I think it will be many on the left to end up
:19:31. > :19:38.suffering as a result. We have talked about very many big issues,
:19:39. > :19:43.let's finish with women's hour. In the mail on Sunday, when they
:19:44. > :19:46.started women's hour on the BBC, there was great concern, they
:19:47. > :19:52.decided it couldn't be fronted by a woman because they might be resented
:19:53. > :19:54.by female listeners. The programme was originally for middle-class
:19:55. > :20:01.housewives who don't want their brains to go mouldy. There is a more
:20:02. > :20:03.from someone saying they are embarrassed talking about older
:20:04. > :20:08.women's programmes in the afternoons, embarrassing to hear
:20:09. > :20:16.about hot flushes and diseases of the ovaries broadcasting at 300 and
:20:17. > :20:22.six kilowatts at 2pm the afternoon. Menopause around the clock! Enough,
:20:23. > :20:25.I am having a hot flush at the thought.
:20:26. > :20:31.To the weather, I will do my own weather forecast and then you can
:20:32. > :20:35.come over me if I am wrong. Over the next few days we will get a little
:20:36. > :20:39.bit of this and a little bit of that. You might want more details or
:20:40. > :20:44.luckily Peter Gibbs has more in the studio, but I am right?
:20:45. > :20:51.And incisive summary as ever, let me show you a bit more of this and a
:20:52. > :20:56.bit more of that. Fine day ahead, but head up into Derbyshire and it's
:20:57. > :21:02.a different story. Grey skies and mistake. We have a mixture across
:21:03. > :21:05.most of the UK, some rain in the mix as well, showers pushing into the
:21:06. > :21:09.South West of England, rain lingering borough good part of the
:21:10. > :21:13.day across Northern Ireland and Northern Scotland but it will become
:21:14. > :21:17.lighter and more patchy with time. Writers bells across southern
:21:18. > :21:21.Scotland but the lion's share of the sunshine will be across the
:21:22. > :21:25.Midlands, South East England and Northern England as well.
:21:26. > :21:28.Temperatures struggling a little again, but where the sun breaks
:21:29. > :21:33.through we could see temperatures as high as 18, maybe even 19 degrees
:21:34. > :21:37.around London, maybe into East Anglia. If you are out and about
:21:38. > :21:42.with out for these areas of heavy showery outbreaks of rain working
:21:43. > :21:47.their way north across England and Wales pushing towards Scotland. That
:21:48. > :21:52.sets the scene for the week ahead, there will be heavy April showers,
:21:53. > :21:57.some sunshine in between but it will turn colder for most of us as the
:21:58. > :22:02.week goes on. In summary, a bit of this and a bit of that.
:22:03. > :22:07.The threat to the steel industry, with many thousands of potential job
:22:08. > :22:09.losses, has brought the idea of nationalisation
:22:10. > :22:12.It's being championed by Labour, and I'm joined now
:22:13. > :22:13.by the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell.
:22:14. > :22:23.You have talked about nationalised to stabilise, what does that mean?
:22:24. > :22:28.Let me be clear, we had to have a clear way forward for the workers
:22:29. > :22:34.and the country and get the best deal for the country, we need to
:22:35. > :22:38.talk to the owners to get a realistic timetable for finding a
:22:39. > :22:43.buyer. We must get guarantees such as keeping Port Talbot open. If we
:22:44. > :22:47.don't have the leeway and timescale than as a fallback nationalisation
:22:48. > :22:50.in the short-term to stabilise the situation and prepare the sector for
:22:51. > :22:56.putting it as another buyer will give us the stability. But we are
:22:57. > :23:02.also saying we have to have a level playing field. Back to Europe and
:23:03. > :23:08.the tariffs? I am afraid we have been let down by the government, it
:23:09. > :23:13.is one of the issues Tata said was pumping them coming to the decision
:23:14. > :23:17.to look at close. We also need more support from George Osborne on
:23:18. > :23:26.business rates and we have to bring forward the infrastructure process.
:23:27. > :23:30.What about energy prices? We need to look at that, we have given some
:23:31. > :23:36.support but on the figures we have seen the idea about the increase
:23:37. > :23:42.regarding climate change is about 1% so it's not a key factor but it
:23:43. > :23:45.needs like that. We know we need to restructure the company and they can
:23:46. > :23:52.do that but there needs to be state involvement. At the moment we know
:23:53. > :23:57.that Tata have said basically the whole thing will close, it will go
:23:58. > :24:01.cold, workers will leave, electricity will be shut off in six
:24:02. > :24:05.weeks maximum so it's a short timescale. We also know they have
:24:06. > :24:10.been looking for buyers for a year and have not found anybody. Two
:24:11. > :24:15.potential buyers talked about in the paper, one is talking about not
:24:16. > :24:20.asset stripping but cherry picking, he does not want the blast furnaces
:24:21. > :24:24.for example. Would that be acceptable for the Labour Party?
:24:25. > :24:28.Part of the reason buyers are not coming forward is they have not seen
:24:29. > :24:33.an industrial strategy in this country which depends upon steel. If
:24:34. > :24:37.we were in government we would have a strategy and working with buyers
:24:38. > :24:42.who had the confidence to invest. That is why I am saying bring
:24:43. > :24:51.forward the shovel ready infrastructure projects. So go
:24:52. > :25:00.faster with high speed to four -- high two for example? Yes, only
:25:01. > :25:06.about one in five projects have gone on to ground for completion, we need
:25:07. > :25:09.a better strategy. While you wait for a buyer and a buyer doesn't,
:25:10. > :25:15.then the public will be left with this costing an million pounds a day
:25:16. > :25:20.at the moment, possibly in perpetuity? Andrew, we know this
:25:21. > :25:27.isn't a zero cost exercise, if it close now we could be into a cost of
:25:28. > :25:30.one billion a year supporting people on benefits and the collapse of
:25:31. > :25:35.local economies, we saw it with mining. We must not neglect these
:25:36. > :25:39.communities. We need a strategy which encourages buyers coming
:25:40. > :25:44.forward. Nationalisation in the short-term is fine but it is based
:25:45. > :25:48.on securing the future the industry. If it led to full-time
:25:49. > :25:52.nationalisation would it be a problem? I think we need to
:25:53. > :25:56.recognise the best way forward is to secure a buyer as quickly as we can.
:25:57. > :25:59.I don't think we will do that unless they see a government with
:26:00. > :26:03.industrial strategy which is confident about the role of steel
:26:04. > :26:10.and infrastructure that elements in future. It's all about timescales.
:26:11. > :26:14.Buyers are put off about the disproportionate size of the pension
:26:15. > :26:19.scheme, you think the government should nationalise the pension
:26:20. > :26:22.scheme to make the rest more sellable? The responsibility for the
:26:23. > :26:27.pension scheme would be there anyway because we have protection scheme
:26:28. > :26:30.within this country. That is part of the negotiations with Tata, we
:26:31. > :26:35.cannot let them walk away from its responsibilities. Some people will
:26:36. > :26:41.say there is old Labour, first instinct nationalise, and before we
:26:42. > :26:48.know where we are we are back to 1963. You have not listened to me, I
:26:49. > :26:51.have said we need negotiations to get a realistic timetable for a new
:26:52. > :26:57.buyer who will hopefully come forward, if it isn't nationalisation
:26:58. > :27:04.will be a fallback. You would always expect to breaded back into the
:27:05. > :27:08.market after that? Yes. It depends on the level of investment. Railway
:27:09. > :27:11.franchises have collapsed and been brought back into public ownership
:27:12. > :27:17.by this government and then put out again so it does work. If a group
:27:18. > :27:20.like liberty wanted to buy the downstream steel-making, the more
:27:21. > :27:24.specialist part but did not want to buy the original bit which is losing
:27:25. > :27:28.a lot of money it might be something for the state to hang onto the blast
:27:29. > :27:33.furnaces to keep the entire steel industry alive in the private
:27:34. > :27:37.sector? I want to see a strategic development linked to the industrial
:27:38. > :27:40.strategy for the long term. In that way I think we can secure the
:27:41. > :27:45.long-term health of not just steel but the economy as well. We would
:27:46. > :27:49.have to look at all options and see what is best for the workers, the
:27:50. > :27:56.taxpayers and the country. We have to look at the long-term future.
:27:57. > :27:57.This is our new politics, the strategic entrepreneurial state,
:27:58. > :28:04.creating long-term investment, new product and new markets. We could
:28:05. > :28:09.have a long-term steel industry partly owned by the taxpayer and
:28:10. > :28:13.partly owned by private groups? We will look at all the options. The
:28:14. > :28:17.government we have we are under disarray, Anna Sue Bray said all the
:28:18. > :28:22.options were on the table and the next day the Secretary of State said
:28:23. > :28:27.nationalisation was not an option. One other option is the German group
:28:28. > :28:32.and it is thought they would like to buy a lot of the European operations
:28:33. > :28:37.of Tata including the modern Dutch plant to shut down Port Talbot, what
:28:38. > :28:43.would you say? We would need to have a guarantee about Port Talbot
:28:44. > :28:45.continuing from any new buyer. Port Talbot have looked at restructuring
:28:46. > :28:49.to become competitive again but it has to be linked to an overall
:28:50. > :28:52.industrial strategy and the government has a role to play.
:28:53. > :29:00.Whether it is money well spent or not Labour's response does involve
:29:01. > :29:03.an extra burden on the public purse. Everyone is responsible, if the
:29:04. > :29:08.government allows the steel sector to close it could cost us between
:29:09. > :29:11.one and a half billion to keep people on the dole and have
:29:12. > :29:15.economies collapse in those communities. There is not a cost
:29:16. > :29:19.free option. We need to invest the money to turn it around and make a
:29:20. > :29:23.sector profitable again. We will need steel again in the future if we
:29:24. > :29:27.are to rebuild our manufacturing base and at the end of the day we
:29:28. > :29:31.believe we'll get the best deal for the taxpayer, community and
:29:32. > :29:40.workforce. Let me move to a Labour Party issue, fears the party has an
:29:41. > :29:46.anti-Semitic French, there are people including Chris Bryant your
:29:47. > :29:50.own MP, saying they are uneasy about things like that, so my question is
:29:51. > :29:54.there is a position of opposition to the Israeli government and what it
:29:55. > :30:01.has been doing and that can involve boycott and so forth. At what point
:30:02. > :30:06.in your mind does anti-Zionist politics become anti-Semitism? As
:30:07. > :30:11.soon as Jewish people start telling us there is anti-Semitism in our
:30:12. > :30:14.party we had to set up and listen. There is no role for anyone in our
:30:15. > :30:20.party with anti-Semitic views. I believe we should take the advice
:30:21. > :30:27.from our Jewish friends to say how do we tackle this problem because it
:30:28. > :30:30.is a societal problem. If it has infected any members of the Labour
:30:31. > :30:41.Party we have to root it out and I am not having it within the party.
:30:42. > :30:46.One Labour councillor talked about Jewish people being aggressive
:30:47. > :30:50.towards Palestinians. You can be critical of the Israeli state but
:30:51. > :30:53.you must not allow that to be used by anti-Semites. We have too rooted
:30:54. > :30:56.out and we will do. Thank you. In two new movies that couldn't be
:30:57. > :30:59.more different from each other, Jeremy Irons plays a father figure
:31:00. > :31:01.to gifted, troubled men. The Man Who Knew Infinity casts him
:31:02. > :31:05.as a Cambridge don helping a young Indian maths genius to cope
:31:06. > :31:08.with racism and his own brilliance. When we met, however,
:31:09. > :31:10.Jeremy Irons started by telling me In Batman versus Superman,
:31:11. > :31:14.he reinvents Bruce Wayne's butler. Irons explained why his Alfred
:31:15. > :31:17.is a special ops sidekick He has the power to wipe out
:31:18. > :31:34.the entire human race and if we believe there is even a 1%
:31:35. > :31:38.chance that he is our enemy we have I believe that Bruce Wayne's
:31:39. > :31:48.parent's, when they were worried about their little boy
:31:49. > :31:53.being kidnapped, and then they died of course, and he became
:31:54. > :31:56.their guardian, would have chosen someone - I remember going to dinner
:31:57. > :31:59.with John Paul Getty in the country and two very nice gents opened
:32:00. > :32:03.the gates for me as I drove in, drove my car away, a very nice
:32:04. > :32:06.gentleman took my coat and another very nice gentleman gave me a glass
:32:07. > :32:09.of champagne on a tray. And I later discovered
:32:10. > :32:11.they were all SAS. They were there to guard
:32:12. > :32:14.this wealthy man. I thought, yes, if I was Mr
:32:15. > :32:18.and Mrs Wayne I would choose somebody who had special services
:32:19. > :32:21.training, who could deal with any difficult situation
:32:22. > :32:24.and so we thought let's make Alfred So this is the butler
:32:25. > :32:29.as action hero, really? Well, it is, except I don't do much
:32:30. > :32:32.action because we have other action heroes,
:32:33. > :32:34.we have Superwoman, we have Batman, Alfred is not necessarily -
:32:35. > :32:40.although I do get to fly And indeed I got to drive
:32:41. > :32:54.the Batmobile which is very difficult to reverse
:32:55. > :32:56.because there is no, Thermal imaging is showing me two
:32:57. > :33:06.dozen hostiles on the third floor. Why don't I drop you
:33:07. > :33:11.off on the second? This is a film which clearly has
:33:12. > :33:15.to be for adults as well as kids and teenagers and so forth,
:33:16. > :33:18.if you are walking along the streets is it the kind of film
:33:19. > :33:21.you would go and see? I might go and see this
:33:22. > :33:26.one because I'm in it! But normally I am not really
:33:27. > :33:29.a superhero aficionado, They are not ones I tend
:33:30. > :33:35.to go and see. Although I have to say when I sat
:33:36. > :33:38.through this I came out thinking, God I have had a meal
:33:39. > :33:41.and a half, you know? Let's talk about the other film,
:33:42. > :33:48.The Man Who Knew Infinity which is about the Indian
:33:49. > :33:50.mathematician Ramanujan who was an extraordinary figure,
:33:51. > :33:54.turn-of-the-century, And your character Hardy,
:33:55. > :34:05.is a professor and again it is a bit like, it is a bit like Batman
:34:06. > :34:08.and Superman in that it is you and a younger man
:34:09. > :34:11.and you are in a slight Yes, GH Hardy, also one
:34:12. > :34:16.of the few sort of 15 great He wrote a small book called
:34:17. > :34:23.A Mathematician's Apology, and reading that I realised that
:34:24. > :34:29.pure mathematics is sort of half It's an extraordinary subject
:34:30. > :34:36.and that is what excited me about it, when I read
:34:37. > :34:43.Mathematician's Apology. And I thought, well, I feel the same
:34:44. > :34:46.about the arts as this. So, I wanted to play a man who had
:34:47. > :34:50.this wonderful internal passion, an academic, somebody quite out
:34:51. > :34:57.of touch with his emotions. Who finds himself becoming
:34:58. > :35:03.enormously attached to this young Indian, who was quite out of place
:35:04. > :35:07.in Cambridge and not very welcome But because of their shared passion
:35:08. > :35:12.they sort of grow together in a very God and I don't exactly see
:35:13. > :35:24.eye to eye. So if I prepare for
:35:25. > :35:26.rain then it won't. I am Hardy and I am spending
:35:27. > :35:31.the afternoon in the library! You see, I am what
:35:32. > :35:38.you call an atheist. I was really touched,
:35:39. > :35:45.I mean, I wanted to do the movie because Matt Brown,
:35:46. > :35:48.who directed it, who I met about four years ago,
:35:49. > :35:50.and who gave me the script, He had been trying to get it
:35:51. > :35:54.off the ground for ten A story of two mathematicians,
:35:55. > :35:58.who would go and see that? But I thought he sees something
:35:59. > :36:01.in this and I was fascinated So, when we finished making it
:36:02. > :36:07.and I watched it I thought, yes, it has something
:36:08. > :36:10.very special, this film. We have talked a little bit
:36:11. > :36:13.about politics before together, it's a very strange time
:36:14. > :36:16.we are living in in this country. We are going through a time
:36:17. > :36:18.when everyone is pushed against the wall and asked
:36:19. > :36:21.what side are you on, But I think like many of us
:36:22. > :36:25.you are one of those people who have been agonising a lot, finding it
:36:26. > :36:28.a difficult, difficult decision. My instinct is always
:36:29. > :36:29.to want local politics, politics to be made nearer me
:36:30. > :36:35.so I can have more influence and I have felt that Brussels,
:36:36. > :36:39.too far-away, I don't elect these people, they spend an awful lot
:36:40. > :36:43.of money travelling between Brussels and wherever it is and it seems
:36:44. > :36:47.wasteful, overblown, But, I feel at the moment,
:36:48. > :36:59.we have such a crisis in Europe with both our economy
:37:00. > :37:04.and the refugee situation, I think we have to hold together
:37:05. > :37:11.and try to spread reasonableness and cooperation between our group,
:37:12. > :37:18.and better organisation. If one believes in that,
:37:19. > :37:23.which I think probably is the way I am going at the moment,
:37:24. > :37:26.then we should probably stay in and try from the inside
:37:27. > :37:29.to change things. I do believe a lot of people
:37:30. > :37:34.inside want things to be improved so maybe we would have fellow
:37:35. > :37:40.conspirators if we stayed in. A busy man, Jeremy Irons -
:37:41. > :37:50.he's also on stage at the Bristol Old Vic until 23 April
:37:51. > :37:53.in Long Day's Journey Into Night. The Business Secretary has been
:37:54. > :37:56.hammered in the press, for being out of the country
:37:57. > :37:59.as 15,000 steel workers faced And the Government generally
:38:00. > :38:03.is accused of a lack of engagement Have ministers simply
:38:04. > :38:20.got their priorities wrong, You have said steel is absolutely
:38:21. > :38:26.vital to UK manufacturing. Can we take it that you regard this as a
:38:27. > :38:31.vital strategic interest for the UK? It is absolutely vital. It is vital
:38:32. > :38:35.for our economic and national security. I do not want to live in a
:38:36. > :38:40.country where we have to import all of our steel. We will do everything
:38:41. > :38:47.we can to keep steel-making at Port Talbot and to help workers. This
:38:48. > :38:50.plant is going to stay open as long as you are Business Secretary? I
:38:51. > :38:59.will do everything I can to keep this plant open. Not quite the same
:39:00. > :39:03.thing. Maybe we can talk about the global challenges. There are some
:39:04. > :39:07.things we cannot change. There are a lot of tools we have in our box. We
:39:08. > :39:11.have been working on them for months. We have known about this
:39:12. > :39:17.potential announcement for a while. That work will pay off. When did you
:39:18. > :39:21.know that Tata Steel were going to close Port Talbot? A few weeks ago
:39:22. > :39:25.Tata had informed us they were reviewing their entire steel
:39:26. > :39:28.industry in the UK. They were considering closing Port Talbot.
:39:29. > :39:36.That would have been devastating up that happened. When I first heard
:39:37. > :39:41.that, my number one priority, and of course this was all behind the
:39:42. > :39:46.scenes, very commercially sensitive, was to work with Tata, whether in
:39:47. > :39:51.India, the UK, and convince them that it is not in their interest as
:39:52. > :39:56.a responsible company, and to allow an open sales process. That is what
:39:57. > :40:00.we managed to achieve. You presumably knew that this Tata board
:40:01. > :40:06.meeting just after Easter in Mumbai was the crunch moment. Why were you
:40:07. > :40:09.in Australia? It was an important meeting but when they made their
:40:10. > :40:14.announcement we did not anticipate they would go that far with the
:40:15. > :40:18.news. The strength of the announcement and how far they went,
:40:19. > :40:23.particularly in terms of timing, was much further than we expected. That
:40:24. > :40:27.is why I turned around and came back and my first visit was to Port
:40:28. > :40:32.Talbot. Stephen Kinnock said everybody knew this was coming. He
:40:33. > :40:38.went to Mumbai and is confused about why you did not go. Stephen Kinnock
:40:39. > :40:42.and others would not have been involved or had known about the
:40:43. > :40:44.discussions we had been having with Tata four weeks since we first heard
:40:45. > :40:50.about their concerns with Port Talbot. When we heard what they had
:40:51. > :40:56.said and how far they went in their announcement, that is why we came
:40:57. > :41:01.back. You came back of your own volition? Of course. Any business
:41:02. > :41:07.trip I make, you always have to be ready to change your plans. That is
:41:08. > :41:10.what I did. Tata have said this is a four week process and within six
:41:11. > :41:15.weeks they would expect to close the steel mill. The workers will be out
:41:16. > :41:20.and the thing will be cooling down. It is a tight timescale? That is why
:41:21. > :41:23.I was actually worried when I heard about the announcement. As I have
:41:24. > :41:30.probed that and worked with them, they have not said that. They know
:41:31. > :41:33.it will take time. They know it is not just a matter of weeks. When
:41:34. > :41:37.they talk about weeks, that is the period you would take to get
:41:38. > :41:41.so-called expressions of interest, find out who is interested. Then it
:41:42. > :41:47.will take much longer after that to work out a deal. That will be with
:41:48. > :41:51.Tata itself. It will involve me and the government. There will be a
:41:52. > :41:55.period of time, probably months, when people are trying to find some
:41:56. > :42:00.way of saving this. During that period of time, the company is using
:42:01. > :42:05.-- losing ?1 million per day. Tata wants to get out and you cannot stop
:42:06. > :42:08.them leaving. There may be a period where you have to temporarily
:42:09. > :42:13.nationalise the industry to keep it alive. Tata shone they are a
:42:14. > :42:25.responsible company, irresponsible seller. -- Tata have shown. IC Tata
:42:26. > :42:30.issuing a working document. Alongside that, we are also going to
:42:31. > :42:34.have two offer support to eventually clinched a buyer and to give this
:42:35. > :42:41.steel plant a long-term viable future. To be absolutely clear, if
:42:42. > :42:44.there is a period between Tata washing their hands of it and a
:42:45. > :42:48.buyer coming along, will the government stepped in to pick up the
:42:49. > :42:56.wage bill and keep the thing going for a period of time? I do not think
:42:57. > :43:01.nationalisation is a solution. Even for a a few weeks or months? I also
:43:02. > :43:07.think it would not be prudent to rule anything out. I do feel though,
:43:08. > :43:11.for a lot of reasons, after talking to Tata, that there will be enough
:43:12. > :43:15.time to find the right buyer working with the government and being able
:43:16. > :43:18.to take this forward. But you cannot know that to be the case. I am
:43:19. > :43:23.wondering if the government will pick up the tab to allow a sale to
:43:24. > :43:26.go ahead? We will look at everything we can do to allow a sale going
:43:27. > :43:33.ahead and I would not rule anything out. There is a confusion about
:43:34. > :43:37.nationalisation. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor have said
:43:38. > :43:41.everything is on the table. But nationalisation is not the answer.
:43:42. > :43:49.Those two things cannot be entirely compatible, can they? What we have
:43:50. > :43:50.said is that when you look at situations like this,
:43:51. > :43:58.nationalisation is rarely the answer. You heard a moment ago from
:43:59. > :44:02.John McDonnell, who, it seems to me nationalisation is his plan. That is
:44:03. > :44:07.not our plan. Our plan is to find a commercial buyer. All of the best
:44:08. > :44:11.steel companies in the world are privately run. Every steel company
:44:12. > :44:16.in Europe is privately run. When you speak to the unions at Tata, they
:44:17. > :44:22.know their best hope for a long-term viable future is with a good
:44:23. > :44:26.commercial operator. We know of two potential buyers. Liberty steel have
:44:27. > :44:29.been clear they would like to buy some of the more specialist steel
:44:30. > :44:34.working plans up and down the country but they are not so keen on
:44:35. > :44:39.the blast furnace. Would an offer which cherry picked the operation be
:44:40. > :44:44.acceptable? I do not think I can get into that detail now. I want to see
:44:45. > :44:48.steel-making continue. Save as many jobs as possible. I want to find a
:44:49. > :44:52.buyer for the whole of the business. Of course there will be helped that
:44:53. > :44:56.needs to be provided. Because we have been working on this for weeks,
:44:57. > :45:01.I have thought very carefully about the kind of help we can provide. I
:45:02. > :45:08.can give you a flavour. Mr Gupta, for instance, has talked about some
:45:09. > :45:16.kind of partnership where he buys bits of the steel industry he wants,
:45:17. > :45:19.but the blast furnaces, they stay in public ownership, so there is a
:45:20. > :45:24.joint private, public deal. Would you be against that?
:45:25. > :45:31.I'm not going to talk about any potential buyer, it is early days,
:45:32. > :45:36.let's get Tata to put out their official bottom and then we will
:45:37. > :45:40.engage with any potential buyer who will come up with combination of
:45:41. > :45:44.things they would like. I have made our interests clear which is to
:45:45. > :45:48.protect Port Talbot and as many jobs as possible and make it viable for
:45:49. > :45:51.the long-term. But what we have been looking at four weeks, any buyer who
:45:52. > :46:03.comes along will want to look at what I have referred to as the
:46:04. > :46:08.plant, pensions and power supply. Very good, I would like to talk
:46:09. > :46:11.about all those. You want get too much out of me because a lot of them
:46:12. > :46:15.will be commercially sensitive but it is to give you a flavour, these
:46:16. > :46:18.are the things we have thought of and have started working on. I hope
:46:19. > :46:22.you will have the official document from Tata and on top of that the
:46:23. > :46:27.help the British government can provide and then you have the
:46:28. > :46:32.makings of a successful deal. Let's talk about those three things, power
:46:33. > :46:37.supplies or electricity, the green levy which beers down heavily on big
:46:38. > :46:42.British industries, makes it about twice the price that German
:46:43. > :46:47.competitors for instance are paying. The Germans and the French and
:46:48. > :46:51.others are much sharper and more ruthless about excluding the big
:46:52. > :46:56.heavy industries from higher energy prices caused by green policies than
:46:57. > :47:03.we are, and you do something about that? We have done it already.
:47:04. > :47:07.Really? We have already started being energy intensive industries
:47:08. > :47:13.compensation for the climate change policy costs in energy. We have paid
:47:14. > :47:20.180 million already. But those costs of Tata are twice what they would be
:47:21. > :47:26.in Holland or Germany. Let's remember... The most expensive
:47:27. > :47:31.energy in Europe. It's an important component and we have already
:47:32. > :47:35.started paying compensation. Can you do more? That is exactly what I have
:47:36. > :47:40.done already, we want to move from compensation to exemption of those
:47:41. > :47:44.costs and I announced that a few months ago and it is already in the
:47:45. > :47:51.works. When it comes to poor poor but, specifically Port Talbot, more
:47:52. > :47:54.needs to be done on power but I cannot get into the detail but any
:47:55. > :48:00.potential investor would want to see movement. You also mentioned the
:48:01. > :48:06.plant, the company wants something to be done about business rates and
:48:07. > :48:11.there was a plan to exempt heavy industry from business rates but it
:48:12. > :48:15.did not go in the budget. That is a crucial thing you need to look at
:48:16. > :48:19.again isn't it? Because the continental steel companies have
:48:20. > :48:25.totally different regime which is much more attractive for investment.
:48:26. > :48:29.I'm glad you brought that up, if we had done that it would have been
:48:30. > :48:33.England wide, because the UK Government is only responsible for
:48:34. > :48:36.England when it comes to business rates. The total costs would have
:48:37. > :48:40.been a couple of billion but very little would have gone to the steel
:48:41. > :48:45.industry, so it wouldn't have been well targeted and I prefer a more
:48:46. > :48:47.targeted approach. When it comes to Port Talbot that is within the Welsh
:48:48. > :48:55.government, not the government in London. Something everyone says,
:48:56. > :48:59.potential buyers being put off by the huge pension problem, not
:49:00. > :49:05.problem but the cost of the pension bill, could the government step in
:49:06. > :49:10.and nationalise the pension side of it to make the plant more
:49:11. > :49:14.attractive? Nobody is talking about the nationalisation of pension
:49:15. > :49:18.schemes but it's something I recognise is a challenge. This is a
:49:19. > :49:22.long-running pension scheme which goes back to the British steel base,
:49:23. > :49:27.it was expensive the way it was initially set up and it's important
:49:28. > :49:30.to retired workers and current workers and we don't want to do
:49:31. > :49:33.anything which would jeopardise them and what they expect from it but
:49:34. > :49:37.it's an issue and we have been looking at it and directed nice it
:49:38. > :49:42.is one of the things we need to work on potential buyer. It is said the
:49:43. > :49:46.German company wants to buy the whole lot so it can use the Dutch
:49:47. > :49:50.plant that Tata operate and closed import all that, what would be your
:49:51. > :49:59.message to them? -- closed import all that. Steel making continues in
:50:00. > :50:12.Port Holbert as it has done for many years. -- Port Talbot. There is a
:50:13. > :50:16.change in procurement rules which began months ago, when people say
:50:17. > :50:21.that this government has not done anything about this until now, we
:50:22. > :50:26.have been doing so much, we talk about energy compensation, we became
:50:27. > :50:28.the first of the EU 28 countries to change our procurement policies to
:50:29. > :50:34.allow for economic and social factors to be taken into account.
:50:35. > :50:38.That makes it far more likely that when it comes to British purchases,
:50:39. > :50:41.British government purchases in infrastructure for example that
:50:42. > :50:47.British Steel will be used. That's already been happening when you look
:50:48. > :50:51.at National rail 99% of its steel is British, Crossrail, the biggest
:50:52. > :50:57.infrastructure structure in Europe, all British Steel. We both know the
:50:58. > :51:03.big picture is the huge quantity of under priced, cut priced dumped
:51:04. > :51:07.Chinese steel. That is a big problem. The Americans put up huge
:51:08. > :51:16.tariffs to protect their steel industry and we have not done it,
:51:17. > :51:21.you, have not -- have been leading the charge against tariffs on
:51:22. > :51:28.Chinese steel. There is so much misinformation on this. This says
:51:29. > :51:32.the UK is the ringleader in a blocking minority of states
:51:33. > :51:36.preventing a proposal on the modernisation of Europe's trade
:51:37. > :51:44.defence instruments. So much misinformation. Is that true? It is
:51:45. > :51:48.misleading, let me explain why. First of all the UK has been the
:51:49. > :51:54.leader in getting more done when there is evidence of dumping and
:51:55. > :51:58.imposing tariffs. You have small specialist tariffs but they are tiny
:51:59. > :52:03.compared to what the Americans... Let's look at the results of those
:52:04. > :52:06.tariffs, where they have been introduced, tariffs were introduced
:52:07. > :52:12.on Chinese wire rod and imports are down to virtually no in the UK. If
:52:13. > :52:16.you look at stainless steel flat products, Harris introduce and
:52:17. > :52:23.imports down 90%. The industry came to me about Rebar, and they wanted
:52:24. > :52:28.tariffs imposed and I led the charge with Europe for that. They were
:52:29. > :52:33.introduced months ago. It is clearly nothing like enough. This time last
:52:34. > :52:41.year imports of Rebar from China are down 99%. We need more of it. The
:52:42. > :52:46.tariffs which have been introduced are working but what I do agree with
:52:47. > :52:52.is that the EU can work faster in its investigations. And we must help
:52:53. > :53:00.the EU to raise tariffs if there is dumping. The current policy, the
:53:01. > :53:04.tools in the box that the EU has are enough to introduce the tariffs but
:53:05. > :53:08.they say you can have any tariff at any level as long as it removes the
:53:09. > :53:14.injury to UK industry and that's what we want. Will we see higher
:53:15. > :53:20.tariffs against Chinese steel? You will see them imposed more quickly
:53:21. > :53:24.and tariffs which are effective. The head of the UK steel industry body
:53:25. > :53:29.says this is a deeper crisis than we have seen for a generation, we need
:53:30. > :53:32.to scrap the lesser duty rule, we need to see tariffs robust enough to
:53:33. > :53:37.stem the flow of Chinese steel because he says we are drowning in
:53:38. > :53:41.it. I think what everyone would agree with is that tariffs need to
:53:42. > :53:45.be high enough to prevent the dumping, stop the injury and we 100%
:53:46. > :53:50.agree with that and we have pushed for more action than any other EU
:53:51. > :53:55.country. To finish off because you raised, the earlier court, what that
:53:56. > :53:58.is talking about, other countries often talk about a wholesale
:53:59. > :54:02.re-writing of the tariff rules and that is not about steel, that is
:54:03. > :54:09.about having a more protectionist Europe which is in no 1's interest,
:54:10. > :54:14.not businesses or consumers. You are a free trader, you talk about free
:54:15. > :54:17.trade in as D'elia, you would accept it's not free trade, the Chinese are
:54:18. > :54:22.subsidising their steel to the extent they are destroying cars and
:54:23. > :54:28.tariffs are acceptable. There have been many examples, we should level
:54:29. > :54:32.the playing field with the right level of tariffs, no question about
:54:33. > :54:38.that. Would it be easier to save the industry if we were not inside the
:54:39. > :54:43.EU? No, if you listen to the industry itself, the head of UK
:54:44. > :54:46.steel said a couple of days ago because people were suggesting that
:54:47. > :54:51.was the case and I don't know where it comes from but he wanted to make
:54:52. > :54:55.it clear that F, he said it is a distraction and if Britain left the
:54:56. > :55:00.EU the steel industry and he believes more widely industry would
:55:01. > :55:04.be worse off. I was reading your statement about why you are remain
:55:05. > :55:09.supporter and I don't think I have ever read more begrudging, self
:55:10. > :55:14.lacerating assessment, you said you don't like Europe or being part of
:55:15. > :55:20.it and if we were starting now we should not join, but on balance it's
:55:21. > :55:27.just about better to stay. Your side of the argument seems to be losing
:55:28. > :55:30.and even David Cameron's great collection guru Lynton Crosby thinks
:55:31. > :55:34.there is a strong possibility of the remain side losing the referendum,
:55:35. > :55:39.are you not heading towards a self-made catastrophe? I think
:55:40. > :55:43.Jeremy Irons is proof that the vast majority of people in Britain have
:55:44. > :55:47.had a think about this carefully. The result of a referendum, who
:55:48. > :55:50.knows what it will be but I am pleased we are having it. I think
:55:51. > :55:55.it's the right decision and I would like us to remain and I have set out
:55:56. > :56:00.the arguments, especially economic arguments but it's a decision for
:56:01. > :56:05.British people. There is no sense of creeping panic in the remain
:56:06. > :56:09.campaign? No, this has not been argument about what makes Britain
:56:10. > :56:13.successful, it is what makes Britain better off, I think Britain can be
:56:14. > :56:16.successful either way but it is what is in the best interest of our
:56:17. > :56:21.prosperity and mixers most prosperous and for me the answer is
:56:22. > :56:25.clear. We have heard from a Sajid Javid the politician, a lot of
:56:26. > :56:31.people are saying you are a hardline Thatcherite free-market coming from
:56:32. > :56:34.a financial background and don't care about manufacturing or the
:56:35. > :56:39.steel industry in particular, what do you say to those people? That it
:56:40. > :56:44.couldn't be further from the truth. Judge me what I have actually done
:56:45. > :56:50.in the few months I have had this job, coming up a year. Look at the
:56:51. > :56:54.fiscal statements we have had and how it represents the policy of my
:56:55. > :56:59.department, in the first budget in June I introduced the apprenticeship
:57:00. > :57:03.leading. Many people called it one of the most interventionist policies
:57:04. > :57:07.there has ever been in the space of skills and that's an example of how
:57:08. > :57:12.I want to turn skills around. When it came to the spending review, more
:57:13. > :57:17.money for the auto industry, the aerospace industry and a big change
:57:18. > :57:19.in how weak operate with industry. Thank you very much.
:57:20. > :57:24.Now over to Ben for the news headlines.
:57:25. > :57:29.The Business Secretary has been addressing criticism that the
:57:30. > :57:33.government failed to do more to safeguard the UK steel industry,
:57:34. > :57:39.Sajid Javid said he would offer state support to clinch the right
:57:40. > :57:43.commercial buyer for Tata steel British operations. He also said the
:57:44. > :57:46.government does not believe nationalisation is the answer. John
:57:47. > :57:50.McDonnell criticised the government for not having an industrial
:57:51. > :57:54.strategy and said short-term nationalise Asian would help to
:57:55. > :58:04.stabilise the current situation. -- nationalisation.
:58:05. > :58:10.We will be asked if the minimum wage is a mixed blessing and is the
:58:11. > :58:17.anti-terrorism strategy in schools backfiring? And witchcraft, do we
:58:18. > :58:21.understand it? We have which is here to help us debate it. -- we have
:58:22. > :58:23.which is. Next week I'll be joined
:58:24. > :58:27.by the incomparable We leave you now with the piano duo,
:58:28. > :58:32.Charles Owen and Katya Apekisheva. Their new Stravinsky
:58:33. > :58:35.recording came out on Friday, and they're going to play us out
:58:36. > :58:39.with Faure's Dolly Suite,