:00:10. > :00:13.President Obama's message to Britain -
:00:14. > :00:16.is it friendly, wise advice, or an offensive, bullying threat?
:00:17. > :00:18.Either way, can we simply, perhaps, ignore the US president?
:00:19. > :00:41.In her first major interview since siding with David Cameron
:00:42. > :00:43.and Remain, I'm joined this morning by the Home Secretary
:00:44. > :00:47.Theresa May - how enthusiastic is she about another 3 million
:00:48. > :00:56.Also, with England's local elections now not far away I'm joined
:00:57. > :01:03.by the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron.
:01:04. > :01:10.President Obama continues to dominate the papers today,
:01:11. > :01:12.and here to review them are the journalist, Toby Young,
:01:13. > :01:15.who definitely won't be heeding the President's advice
:01:16. > :01:18.when it comes to the EU referendum - and Gillian Tett, US managing editor
:01:19. > :01:26.And still on the theme of politics, we will hear from one of the true
:01:27. > :01:29.legends of modern music, for many people the greatest
:01:30. > :01:31.songwriter music, # If you don't have a wristband, my
:01:32. > :01:44.man, you don't get through the door! Now at this point, I usually
:01:45. > :01:46.hand over to the news. But this morning, we're
:01:47. > :01:49.going to focus on one story. President Obama last week told
:01:50. > :01:52.the UK it would have to 'go to the back of the queue' in any
:01:53. > :01:54.future trade negotiations with the US, if we vote
:01:55. > :01:57.to leave the EU. Now he's said it would take
:01:58. > :02:00.at least five to ten years, President Obama made those remarks
:02:01. > :02:03.in an interview with Huw Edwards. Mr President, thank you very
:02:04. > :02:06.much for talking to us. I think it is fair to say
:02:07. > :02:10.that your visit, even more than usual, has
:02:11. > :02:12.created quite a stir! People are saying, OK,
:02:13. > :02:13.we have a special relationship,
:02:14. > :02:15.and yet that special relationship could involve going to
:02:16. > :02:17.the back of the queue! Well, actually, the special
:02:18. > :02:23.relationship is not There are emotional and cultural
:02:24. > :02:34.and commercial and strategic bonds between our two countries that are
:02:35. > :02:37.unmatched by any other two countries As a practical matter,
:02:38. > :02:43.what we are doing with respect to trade is negotiating
:02:44. > :02:50.with big blocks of countries. Because negotiating trade deals
:02:51. > :02:51.are a heavy lift, they are challenging
:02:52. > :02:53.and they are difficult. It is the phrase, the back
:02:54. > :02:56.of the queue, which has, I suppose offended some
:02:57. > :02:58.people and alarmed others or scared them,
:02:59. > :02:59.was As I said, it was simply
:03:00. > :03:04.a response to the argument I have heard from others,
:03:05. > :03:08.who are proposing to leave the EU, that somehow America
:03:09. > :03:13.would be able to do things more quickly
:03:14. > :03:15.with the UK than if they were
:03:16. > :03:25.in the European Union. I was simply indicating
:03:26. > :03:27.that would not be the case in this narrow issue of trade.
:03:28. > :03:30.The UK would not be able to negotiate something
:03:31. > :03:34.with the United States faster than the EU.
:03:35. > :03:37.We wouldn't abandon our efforts to negotiate a trade deal
:03:38. > :03:44.with our largest trading partner, the European market.
:03:45. > :03:46.But rather, it could be five years from now, ten
:03:47. > :03:49.years from now, before we are able to actually get something done.
:03:50. > :03:51.So maybe not right at the back of the
:03:52. > :03:57.queue, maybe towards the back of the queue, is that right?
:03:58. > :04:00.I think the broader point is that if you are
:04:01. > :04:03.interested in trade, we are on the cusp of getting
:04:04. > :04:16.a trade deal done with the European Union.
:04:17. > :04:18.If I am a business person, or a worker in
:04:19. > :04:26.Britain, and I am looking at the fact that I already have access,
:04:27. > :04:29.seamlessly, with a massive market, one of the wealthiest markets
:04:30. > :04:39.in the world that accounts for 44% of my exports,
:04:40. > :04:42.then the idea that I'm going to be in a better
:04:43. > :04:43.position to export and trade by
:04:44. > :04:45.being outside of that market, and not being
:04:46. > :04:46.in the room setting the
:04:47. > :04:49.rules and standards by which trade takes place, I think is erroneous.
:04:50. > :04:51.You have been very clear, the special relationship, you've just
:04:52. > :05:02.Trade is important, it it much more than that.
:05:03. > :05:04.We have been focusing on lots of things
:05:05. > :05:07.sharing given the very real threat from terrorist groups around the
:05:08. > :05:12.Is it possible to say today that if there were an exit from the
:05:13. > :05:14.EU, those elements of the special relationship would not be affected?
:05:15. > :05:35.It wouldn't be affected in the sense that our intelligence teams work
:05:36. > :05:37.extremely closely together and our militaries work
:05:38. > :05:42.Our ability to do things together will not be changed.
:05:43. > :05:44.What we do believe is that the United Kingdom
:05:45. > :05:47.will have less influence in Europe, and as a consequence, less influence
:05:48. > :05:50.In a sense, we rely heavily on the UK as a partner
:05:51. > :05:55.There will be some people watching who put
:05:56. > :05:57.a much higher price on the
:05:58. > :05:59.bond with the US than the bond with the EU.
:06:00. > :06:02.They will say, the President is fairly clear, the special
:06:03. > :06:03.relationship is not going to be damaged
:06:04. > :06:05.by any decision on coming in
:06:06. > :06:07.or out of the EU, and if that is the case,
:06:08. > :06:09.we shouldn't be concerned about coming out.
:06:10. > :06:12.That is how they will probably relay the argument, what
:06:13. > :06:16.I guess if the countries that are closest to
:06:17. > :06:26.you, that care about you the most, the countries with whom you
:06:27. > :06:28.co-operate most frequently, those who you have a special relationship
:06:29. > :06:34.with, suggesting to you that you might be better off staying in this
:06:35. > :06:35.with Europe, it is worth paying attention.
:06:36. > :06:38.This sharp focus again on some of the dangerous flash points
:06:39. > :06:41.around the world, there are plenty of voices in Europe who say that
:06:42. > :06:44.part of the reason that Europe has been dealing with such a big
:06:45. > :06:47.migration crisis is the lack of assertive
:06:48. > :06:51.response, if you like, or the
:06:52. > :06:53.lack of assertive engagement, not least from the US.
:06:54. > :07:05.You can't say, we don't want to do anything in Syria,
:07:06. > :07:09.our parliaments won't ratify any actions
:07:10. > :07:16.Syria but we do want the
:07:17. > :07:18.United States to do something about it!
:07:19. > :07:25.One of the challenges of my presidency
:07:26. > :07:28.I think, isto encourage everybody to recognise that whether we like it
:07:29. > :07:30.or not, we are in an interconnected world.
:07:31. > :07:32.This relates to Brexit, to Nato, to the migration crisis,
:07:33. > :07:38.counterterrorism efforts, public health issues like Ebola,
:07:39. > :07:39.it's a problem in the US because
:07:40. > :07:42.people have debates about immigration from places like Mexico.
:07:43. > :07:44.It would be tempting for many people to believe
:07:45. > :07:52.that we can pull up the
:07:53. > :07:53.drawbridge, that we can carve a moat around
:07:54. > :07:55.ourselves and not have to
:07:56. > :08:03.You've been to Windsor, driven around by the Duke of Edinburgh,
:08:04. > :08:20.And clearly enjoying it, the First Lady at your side.
:08:21. > :08:22.Give us a sense of what the First Lady has
:08:23. > :08:25.I cannot separate anything that I have
:08:26. > :08:27.achieved from the partnership that I have had with
:08:28. > :08:30.First and foremost, she is the best mother I know.
:08:31. > :08:32.My daughters are amazing because of her parenting.
:08:33. > :08:39.So I can take very little credit beyond
:08:40. > :08:41.executing some of the plans that she has!
:08:42. > :08:42.She's also proven to be an
:08:43. > :08:51.extraordinary public figure in her own right.
:08:52. > :08:58.In a very difficult job, because the First Lady doesn't have
:08:59. > :09:03.a clearly defined role, so what she has been able to do
:09:04. > :09:05.in changing first the conversation in the United
:09:06. > :09:08.States and then globally to some degree around children's health
:09:09. > :09:11.issues and child obesity, and now what she is doing with the emphasis
:09:12. > :09:13.on girls' education, and making sure that our
:09:14. > :09:14.policies are aligned with
:09:15. > :09:17.the basic wisdom that countries that do not educate their girls and treat
:09:18. > :09:25.I could not be prouder of her, and I think it
:09:26. > :09:28.is fair to say that anything good that I have done, she gets shared
:09:29. > :09:33.Mr President, a great honour to talk to you.
:09:34. > :09:34.And enjoy the
:09:35. > :09:49.President Obama telling us we ought to pay attention to them! Will be?
:09:50. > :09:55.The papers give some indication. Arafat acid story in the Sunday
:09:56. > :10:02.Telegraph, saying, look who's in the driving seat! Observer moves on to
:10:03. > :10:07.the possible next president, Hillary Clinton, agrees with President
:10:08. > :10:12.Obama, the Sunday Times is weighted by the rich list today although they
:10:13. > :10:17.have a picture of the president, and the Labour Party living in stop
:10:18. > :10:21.doctors strike. Something we could well talk about talk about later on.
:10:22. > :10:27.The headline in the Mail on Sunday, Boris Johnson raging at President
:10:28. > :10:30.Obama. The language of Boris Johnson, the colourful, is not quite
:10:31. > :10:32.as colourful as it appears in that headline.
:10:33. > :10:36.And with me to review the papers are Toby Young and Gillian Tett.
:10:37. > :10:43.Toby, in the Mail on Sunday you are making the case against what
:10:44. > :10:47.President Obama has said. I had not had an interview before I wrote the
:10:48. > :10:52.piece. From the Leave proud of it was encouraging to the president say
:10:53. > :10:55.that our security relationship with the United States would not be
:10:56. > :11:01.affected in the slightest if we left the EU. It was something that was
:11:02. > :11:06.said by Sir Richard Dearlove, and he was ridiculed by the Remain camp
:11:07. > :11:11.last month. Disappointing to hear him repeat what I think of as the
:11:12. > :11:14.scaremongering trade argument. I think is exaggerating those
:11:15. > :11:18.difficulties. It has taken more than 40 years the United States to
:11:19. > :11:22.conclude a trade agreement with the European Union and it still has not
:11:23. > :11:26.done so. In the meantime it has concluded agreements with countries
:11:27. > :11:30.like Jordan, El Salvador, the nation, they only have one set of
:11:31. > :11:37.negotiators who would be entirely tied up with TTIP before they could
:11:38. > :11:41.get to Britain, I think that is wrong. The other point I make in my
:11:42. > :11:46.piece is that we currently have a great deal of trade, over ?35
:11:47. > :11:51.billion worth of trade going in both directions between us and the US. So
:11:52. > :11:56.I'm not sure it would be that catastrophic even if it did take
:11:57. > :12:02.five to ten years to conclude in the deal. Your piece appears on the same
:12:03. > :12:07.page as the picture of the president playing golf, do you get the sense
:12:08. > :12:17.that this is a mess of establishments to job against people
:12:18. > :12:22.like you? -- a massive establishment stitch up? It does look like that
:12:23. > :12:28.and I am not sure how that will play with the Don't Nos. It is
:12:29. > :12:34.reminiscent of the pictures of Tony Blair at camp David with George W
:12:35. > :12:39.Bush, something that did not do Mr Blair any favours. One point made
:12:40. > :12:42.today is that only 15% of voters say they will take the views of the
:12:43. > :12:48.president into account and the majority of them are for the Remain
:12:49. > :12:54.camp already. I'm not sure how much difference that will make. Gillian,
:12:55. > :12:58.you will take this forward. Muggy I would like to comment, when the
:12:59. > :13:02.president says the trade deals could take between five and ten years, he
:13:03. > :13:06.is not being punitive, the reality is that Congress takes a long time
:13:07. > :13:11.to do anything. Trade deals take a long time. And people are picking up
:13:12. > :13:16.on this, the Americans are picking up on this, it's the sheer
:13:17. > :13:20.uncertainty, you got big banks and big companies saying they are
:13:21. > :13:25.building up operations in places like Dublin and Amsterdam to prepare
:13:26. > :13:30.for that uncertainty. So that is the issue. That very much feeds into
:13:31. > :13:37.what Hillary Clinton says which is that the Americans want a strong
:13:38. > :13:41.British voice in the EU. That is a widespread view and the Democrat
:13:42. > :13:46.side although Ted Cruz and Donald Trump take a different feel so in a
:13:47. > :13:50.strange way American politics and British politics are becoming
:13:51. > :13:54.strangely untangled. Yes and no. If you talk to other parts of the
:13:55. > :13:56.Republican Party now they believe Britain would be mad to leave
:13:57. > :14:01.because they don't understand why anyone would give up the influence
:14:02. > :14:05.issue. Ted Cruz and Donald Trump have not spent much time talking
:14:06. > :14:10.about Brexit. They have plenty of other things on their radar now. It
:14:11. > :14:14.is a fair bet that they would be so enthusiastic but then Trump is
:14:15. > :14:19.speaking enthusiastically about Putin now. Is it not a bit unfair to
:14:20. > :14:23.say that only uncertainty would be with the Leave said if we voted to
:14:24. > :14:28.leave because they would also be uncertainty of we voted to stay, the
:14:29. > :14:32.TTIP hasn't been concluded yet and could take five or ten years, and
:14:33. > :14:39.with the looming crisis there is uncertainty on both sides. Di issue
:14:40. > :14:45.isn't so much about widgets and goods, its trade and services. That
:14:46. > :14:48.is where Britain is most at risk. The question is about financial
:14:49. > :14:58.services and what that would mean for the City of London. If you had a
:14:59. > :15:02.bunch of us in a country which is in the EU you can still take advantage
:15:03. > :15:07.of whatever trading arrangements are in place even if your headquarters
:15:08. > :15:10.are in London. Those big banks can mostly not live with that
:15:11. > :15:14.uncertainty. They are terrified of being caught in this political
:15:15. > :15:19.fight, they are looking at building up their operations in Dublin,
:15:20. > :15:21.Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt. Some people might say, good riddance to
:15:22. > :15:31.needs those banks anyway. I think you have the story about
:15:32. > :15:41.Boris Johnson getting flack for his comments. Yes, he has. I don't think
:15:42. > :15:46.it is fair to accuse Boris of being racist by invoking Obama's part
:15:47. > :15:51.Kenyan ancestry. After all, Obama wrote a book which was a memoir,
:15:52. > :15:56.about a third of it is devoted to a trip he makes to Kenya which he
:15:57. > :16:00.retraces the steps of his father and grandfather and talks about his
:16:01. > :16:05.grandfather's involvement in the memorabilia on. He said his part
:16:06. > :16:09.Kenyan heritage has helped shape his political views. And that was a very
:16:10. > :16:15.brutal episode in Kenyan history, and you can see why Kenyans might be
:16:16. > :16:20.sceptical about imperial enthusiasm as a result. It was a blunder of
:16:21. > :16:23.Boris to bring this up because it enabled the Remain campaign to
:16:24. > :16:30.retaliate by accusing him and playing the race card and not focus
:16:31. > :16:34.on the issue of Obama's hypocrisy. He said in this international age
:16:35. > :16:40.when we depend on more cooperation, it is silly to think you can create
:16:41. > :16:45.a moat around your country. Why is he recommending we shouldn't take
:16:46. > :16:49.back control of our borders? Is this essentially you're a bit of a
:16:50. > :16:55.racist, what Philip Hammond is saying in the Telegraph? That seems
:16:56. > :17:01.to be decoded implication. One of the aspects of... I have got
:17:02. > :17:06.statistics. The difficulty of David Cameron invoking Obama, now Clinton,
:17:07. > :17:11.bringing in the HM Treasury analysis earlier in the week is that it seems
:17:12. > :17:19.he's not playing on a level playing field and create acrimony between
:17:20. > :17:23.the two side. If the Remain campaign win narrowly, a lot of people will
:17:24. > :17:32.say it is not fair, there will be ranker. Percentages and so forth, it
:17:33. > :17:39.is rare you get an economist with a big billing in the Sun. I always
:17:40. > :17:47.thought the Sun was about soccer and sex but it also has economics facts.
:17:48. > :17:52.We have a Google group saying living costs will fall by ?40 a week
:17:53. > :17:56.because things like cars and fridges and washing machines will become
:17:57. > :18:02.cheaper if there was Brexit. I find it fascinating the weight economics
:18:03. > :18:06.is being bandied around. Most people are probably now confused about the
:18:07. > :18:12.numbers but the Sun has discovered economics, great. Toby, you have a
:18:13. > :18:16.story about the junior doctors I think in the Sunday Times, and there
:18:17. > :18:22.are some idea that there is a compromise deal to be negotiated.
:18:23. > :18:28.The story is that Heidi Alexander, the Labour shadow health spokesman,
:18:29. > :18:32.has brokered a deal which could bring about peace between the junior
:18:33. > :18:37.doctors and Jeremy Hunt. What is odd about this is that earlier in the
:18:38. > :18:39.week John McDonnell, the Labour Shadow Chancellor, was saying
:18:40. > :18:44.actually he encourages people to come out onto the streets to
:18:45. > :18:51.protest, and he hopes we can bring down the Government before 2020
:18:52. > :18:55.through this kind of action. Very off piste on Heidi's part. The idea
:18:56. > :19:00.is they would go ahead with the contracts but on a piecemeal test
:19:01. > :19:04.pilot basis. Yes, they would implement the new contract in some
:19:05. > :19:10.places, see how it works, before rolling it out nationally. Not a
:19:11. > :19:16.stupid idea. You also have a piece by Sarah Baxter in the Sunday Times
:19:17. > :19:19.comments section. Yes, Sarah isn't wholly sympathetic to the cause of
:19:20. > :19:24.the junior doctors and she points out that once they complete their
:19:25. > :19:29.training they have lifelong job security and a GP's average salary
:19:30. > :19:36.is about ?100,000 with 10% of them earning more than the Prime
:19:37. > :19:42.Minister. We are going to go on to Donald Trump. The other big story.
:19:43. > :19:46.An extraordinary story, makes Boris Johnson look positively
:19:47. > :19:50.mealy-mouthed. This is a terrific piece looking at Donald Trump the
:19:51. > :19:57.showman, we almost here is a showman. A key issue about him is
:19:58. > :20:06.that as the ultimate showman, is he now going to change his spots and
:20:07. > :20:11.turn into Trump the moderate? He has hired somebody who is the ultimate
:20:12. > :20:21.spin doctor, and I suspect we will see Trump the rational. We are going
:20:22. > :20:30.to get grown-up Trump. He has no ideology, you will do whatever it
:20:31. > :20:35.takes to win. Moving on again. Toby, you've got an interesting piece
:20:36. > :20:38.about Sadiq Khan, the London candidate for mayor. Yes, it is
:20:39. > :20:48.interesting because it repeats many of the things that Zac has been
:20:49. > :20:57.saying about Sadiq, raising links with Islamic extremists, but Alan
:20:58. > :20:59.Sugar was enabled by Gordon Brown, turned into an enterprise
:21:00. > :21:05.ambassador, at one point talked about as a potential mayoral
:21:06. > :21:09.candidate so it is harder I think for Sadiq Khan's team to deflect
:21:10. > :21:14.these questions by playing the race card and claiming it is just
:21:15. > :21:18.partisan dirty politics. This is a stalwart of the Labour Party saying
:21:19. > :21:24.that he is concerned about Sadiq Khan's links with these various
:21:25. > :21:31.folks. Moving on again, and alcohol story. I find this fascinating
:21:32. > :21:38.because as someone who lives in New York, when I come back to London,
:21:39. > :21:46.I'm always struck by how much people drink, but Louis Theroux has done a
:21:47. > :21:51.fantastic piece pointing out that there is this epidemic in drinking
:21:52. > :22:06.in the UK. Nice middle-class people hoofing it back. Little -- people
:22:07. > :22:10.like me, drinking a lot! Very quickly, there is a lot of
:22:11. > :22:14.Shakespeare in the papers, including the extraordinary story of Prince
:22:15. > :22:19.Charles playing Hamlet on the TV, and that wonderful sequence of
:22:20. > :22:23.screens down the Thames, all of Shakespeare's plays reduced to ten
:22:24. > :22:29.minutes, crowds of people yesterday watching them. I was hoping Prince
:22:30. > :22:33.Charles would say the line, there is something rotten in the state of
:22:34. > :22:40.Denmark, but actually Obama's comments reminded me of a quote in
:22:41. > :22:46.King Lear, where two of the characters are trying to persuade
:22:47. > :22:55.him to give up delusions of grandeur. At one point he says, but
:22:56. > :23:01.sir, being weak seems so. That seems to be Obama's argument. Give up
:23:02. > :23:04.these delusions. This is such a classy paper review, we have come to
:23:05. > :23:05.the end of it but thank you both for that.
:23:06. > :23:08.Now to the weather, and it's been as dithery
:23:09. > :23:10.and confused as many European referendum voters, just
:23:11. > :23:16.In the weather studio is Matt Taylor.
:23:17. > :23:23.More of the same through this coming week. Out today more cloud than we
:23:24. > :23:27.saw yesterday but equally many will be dry with sunshine coming through
:23:28. > :23:34.now and again. Showers down eastern coastal counties, and some in the
:23:35. > :23:38.Midlands moving toward the south later on. Some will have a wet spell
:23:39. > :23:48.in the afternoon, but a lot of dry weather too. The best of the warmth
:23:49. > :23:51.on the south-west coast, 13 Celsius. Tonight eastern areas where the
:23:52. > :23:56.windfalls that bit lighter, skies are clear. This is where numerically
:23:57. > :24:00.the temperatures will drop the furthest thanks to cloud, occasional
:24:01. > :24:04.rain and a strengthening wind. But they even out first thing in the
:24:05. > :24:09.morning because the wind will make it cold. Across England and Wales
:24:10. > :24:14.you will be hard pressed to avoid the showers, lots of them around.
:24:15. > :24:22.The wind is stronger as well, strongest across the north-east of
:24:23. > :24:30.Scotland bringing in sleet and snow. As for the week ahead, Andrew, the
:24:31. > :24:36.weather stays that little bit dithery, stays chilly.
:24:37. > :24:40.Back to you. Very poor behaviour by the weather, you will have noticed.
:24:41. > :24:42.Their time in Government ended unhappily for the Lib Dems,
:24:43. > :24:45.with only eight of their MPs left standing after the general election.
:24:46. > :24:47.During the coalition years, their base in local government
:24:48. > :24:50.Will the party renowned for its pavement politics start
:24:51. > :24:53.winning back council seats in next month's local elections in England?
:24:54. > :24:55.The Lib Dem leader, Tim Farron, joins me now.
:24:56. > :25:06.The great thing to be a party leader but this party leader in these
:25:07. > :25:12.circumstances not so much. I don't whether it is a hospital pass or a
:25:13. > :25:16.poisoned chalice, but it has been pretty rough for you, hasn't it?
:25:17. > :25:21.That is a tremendous euphemism for this time in the morning. It is
:25:22. > :25:25.joyful, the result we have Moss May was of course devastating but I
:25:26. > :25:31.cannot change that. What I can effect is how we go forward. Since
:25:32. > :25:35.last May we have had a remarkable upsurge in the membership, a 50%
:25:36. > :25:42.increase, and people like you and I keep an eye on these things.
:25:43. > :25:46.Staggeringly, against everybody's expectations, the party has gained
:25:47. > :25:52.more seats and votes than anybody else. There's a real sense of us
:25:53. > :25:56.coming back. It is not a 12 month job, we have a big job ahead of us
:25:57. > :26:01.but the state of politics requires the Liberal Democrats to recover so
:26:02. > :26:04.we better hard. Your former party leader did what he thought was the
:26:05. > :26:08.right thing for the country, going into coalition with the
:26:09. > :26:13.Conservatives and doing his best. As a result, they stabbed your party in
:26:14. > :26:17.the back, and nearly finished you off. Will you ever go into any kind
:26:18. > :26:21.of relationship with the Conservative Party again? I didn't
:26:22. > :26:26.join the Liberal Democrats is a smart career move, but neither did I
:26:27. > :26:31.do copout and avoid power. If you want to change the world you have
:26:32. > :26:39.got to get involved with power. He wouldn't go back for more with these
:26:40. > :26:42.people, would you? I think collectively as a country we have
:26:43. > :26:46.all learned over the last 12 months. We have seen the attack on schools,
:26:47. > :26:50.on junior doctors, the dismantling of the green energy programme the
:26:51. > :26:55.Liberal Democrats brought in and it's a reminder to everybody of what
:26:56. > :26:58.the Liberal Democrats were doing. Some people look at your party
:26:59. > :27:04.conference last time and see your opposition to fracking, and they say
:27:05. > :27:09.is this the Liberal Democrats going back to the open toed sandals of the
:27:10. > :27:16.1970s? These issues are important but may seem marginal compared to
:27:17. > :27:21.the problems facing the country. Our fundamental approach is how we
:27:22. > :27:25.rebuild from the grass roots up. We have these elections on May the 5th
:27:26. > :27:29.and our job is to build back up from the grass roots, to give people the
:27:30. > :27:33.opportunity to vote for somebody with a credible plan for their area
:27:34. > :27:38.but it also means tackling the big issues. We have got to confess that
:27:39. > :27:40.one of the reasons why a pretty dreadful Conservative government is
:27:41. > :27:47.getting away with things at the moment...
:27:48. > :27:51.Your words, not mine. But they have the most shambolic opposition in
:27:52. > :27:55.living memory. I have nothing against Jeremy Corbyn, but Labour
:27:56. > :27:59.are the worst opposition in history. We have got to provide people with a
:28:00. > :28:05.real alternative. Give me an example of a policy where you think you can
:28:06. > :28:10.defeat the Government. There is a vote tomorrow, I will give you a
:28:11. > :28:13.hint. You didn't need to give me a hint, my focus is on trying to
:28:14. > :28:19.defeat the Government tomorrow on the proposal. This is about Britain
:28:20. > :28:26.taking more child refugees who are already inside the EU. Unaccompanied
:28:27. > :28:31.minors within Europe, refugees. We reckon there are about 30,000 in
:28:32. > :28:36.Europe. Devastatingly we also reckon 10,000 of them have gone missing and
:28:37. > :28:44.they will be in the hands of traffickers, sexually exploited.
:28:45. > :28:50.What Save The Children are proposing is that Britain takes our fair
:28:51. > :28:55.share, 3000 of them unaccompanied children. My challenge to Theresa
:28:56. > :29:00.May, who you will be speaking to in a few minutes, is that on Monday you
:29:01. > :29:04.have the opportunity to help those children and prevent that
:29:05. > :29:08.trafficking from taking place. You have some Conservative MPs on your
:29:09. > :29:12.side. Others will say this will just encourage people in Syria and
:29:13. > :29:19.elsewhere to send their children into the EU in the sure knowledge
:29:20. > :29:22.they will eventually be helped. We know there are something like 5
:29:23. > :29:27.million refugees fleeing from the region and a faction, maybe a
:29:28. > :29:32.quarter, are in Europe. The idea Europe is the only place people are
:29:33. > :29:38.heading is not true. I have been to the camps, I've seen families
:29:39. > :29:42.devastated, people who have fled war and persecution, and they took an
:29:43. > :29:47.enormous risky decision to cross the water to come to Europe because what
:29:48. > :29:54.they left behind was risky. This is tomorrow's vote, can you win it? Of
:29:55. > :29:58.course we can. My question to every Conservative MP is if you were in
:29:59. > :30:01.the situation of these Syrian refugees, if your children were like
:30:02. > :30:06.these unaccompanied children in Europe now, would you want other
:30:07. > :30:12.countries to do this for you? You have these local elections coming
:30:13. > :30:17.up, what does recovery look like for the Liberal Democrats? Good
:30:18. > :30:21.question, every election starts as a level playing field and I would love
:30:22. > :30:26.us to be starting 50 seats higher than we are but we are not. Our way
:30:27. > :30:31.back to serious central part in British politics is to win in these
:30:32. > :30:37.elections coming up now. The most elected councillors this time
:30:38. > :30:41.round... I want to make progress on the ground and earn people's votes
:30:42. > :30:47.because most people expect politicians to let them down. I want
:30:48. > :30:50.to challenge politicians to prove to the electorate there was a
:30:51. > :30:57.difference to the Liberal Democrats. We can bring decency serve people
:30:58. > :31:01.and do it better than ever before. Mostly I have to talk to you down
:31:02. > :31:02.the line, it has been lovely to have you in the studio. Thank you very
:31:03. > :31:05.much indeed. For more than half a century,
:31:06. > :31:08.Paul Simon's music provided a soundtrack for modern America
:31:09. > :31:10.that the rest of If he'd stopped writing
:31:11. > :31:13.in the '70s, his place as a legend would
:31:14. > :31:15.still have been assured. But he's gone on to produce
:31:16. > :31:17.ever more inventive, His latest, "Stranger To Stranger"
:31:18. > :31:21.is Simon at his best - When we met, we started
:31:22. > :31:28.by talking about the early days living in London,
:31:29. > :31:29.where he wrote some # And walked off to look for
:31:30. > :31:48.America...#. Can I ask you about London
:31:49. > :31:54.when you first came here, part of the folk scene - how
:31:55. > :31:58.different is the city these days? Well, of course it's
:31:59. > :32:00.enormously different I mean, one of their
:32:01. > :32:10.early questions was, "Have you heard of this band,
:32:11. > :32:12.the Beatles?" And they showed me
:32:13. > :32:15.a picture and it was like, All the cars seemed so small
:32:16. > :32:35.that I thought, this is perfect, you can walk across
:32:36. > :32:37.the street and And as far as the folk
:32:38. > :32:50.scene went, big, big musical effect on popular
:32:51. > :32:52.music thinking. You've been a commentator
:32:53. > :32:54.on American life and American society
:32:55. > :32:58.for a very long time. some songs which seem to be quite
:32:59. > :33:05.critical of divisions in American # I stepped outside the backstage
:33:06. > :33:22.door to breathe some nicotine. # Then I heard a click,
:33:23. > :33:27.the stage door lock # I'm gonna have to walk around the
:33:28. > :33:31.block As I began to write
:33:32. > :33:43.the song, I started out as if I were writing an anecdote about
:33:44. > :33:47.a musician who steps backstage, steps outside into the alley
:33:48. > :33:50.to have a cigarette, the door locks, and now he's trying to get back
:33:51. > :33:52.in and it's The only way he can
:33:53. > :34:01.get back in, he's got to walk around the block
:34:02. > :34:04.and walk into the front, who is standing there checking
:34:05. > :34:07.everything, and the guy says, # Kids that can't afford the cool
:34:08. > :34:20.brand # Whose anger is a shorthand
:34:21. > :34:24.# For you'll never get a wristband # And if you don't have a wristband,
:34:25. > :34:27.my man, So then wristband
:34:28. > :34:40.becomes a metaphor for people who are permanently
:34:41. > :34:45.ineligible to enter into, you know, pleasure or success, whatever
:34:46. > :34:48.you want to call the club... I was going to ask you about
:34:49. > :34:51.another really wonderful song on the album, the opening song,
:34:52. > :34:57.Werewolf, which is a scary song. I wondered if it was
:34:58. > :34:59.an angrier, sourer coda to American Tune for the new
:35:00. > :35:03.century. There is a kind of sorrow
:35:04. > :35:10.in American Tune and there is a kind of half humour in
:35:11. > :35:14.The Werewolf, you know. You use a lot of humour when it
:35:15. > :35:17.comes to politics, another great It is the funniest political
:35:18. > :35:22.song I know, it is absolutely brilliant, very,
:35:23. > :35:23.very funny. Ten years on from 9/11,
:35:24. > :35:31.you sang Sound Of Silence Somebody had wanted you to sing
:35:32. > :35:43.Bridge Over Troubled Water but Just tell us why that was that what
:35:44. > :35:50.you chose? Some instinct said, this song
:35:51. > :35:53.is more about the mood of what I Bridge Over Troubled Water
:35:54. > :36:00.has been used often as a song of comfort
:36:01. > :36:12.in times of national tragedies but there
:36:13. > :36:17.was something about The Sound Of Silence
:36:18. > :36:23.that has changed over the years. # People talking without speaking
:36:24. > :36:31.# People hearing without listening. # People writing songs
:36:32. > :36:38.that voices never share # No one dares
:36:39. > :36:43.# Disturb the sound of silence...# Something has changed and I sing it
:36:44. > :36:45.very differently from the
:36:46. > :36:53.way it was recorded. I sing it in a much slower way,
:36:54. > :36:56.and I've changed the melody a So that's really why
:36:57. > :36:59.I chose that song. Some people who have been watching
:37:00. > :37:01.this interview will now be
:37:02. > :37:04.feeling quite frustrated, fantastic, when will
:37:05. > :37:07.I get the chance to hear When am I going to be
:37:08. > :37:11.able to buy tickets and stand and listen
:37:12. > :37:12.to Well, I hope that
:37:13. > :37:15.people think that way. Unfortunately, I won't be playing
:37:16. > :37:19.here until the autumn. Yes, I will come back,
:37:20. > :37:26.I will be here, Inshallah, big treat, thank you very much for
:37:27. > :37:31.talking to us. We've heard a lot recently
:37:32. > :37:38.about the impact of staying in or leaving the EU
:37:39. > :37:42.on jobs and trade. Issues like immigration and security
:37:43. > :37:45.are at the heart of the debate too, which makes the Home Secretary,
:37:46. > :37:47.Theresa May, She is on the Remain side,
:37:48. > :38:03.and she's with me now. Good morning, Andrew. If we stay in
:38:04. > :38:07.the EU, will immigration go up or down? Nine no one who has heard me
:38:08. > :38:12.in the last few years will have any doubt that I think that we need to
:38:13. > :38:17.control immigration. It is high and it is hard, whether inside or
:38:18. > :38:24.outside the EU, it is hard dealing with migration from inside the EU
:38:25. > :38:29.outside. If we are still inside immigration will continue to rise
:38:30. > :38:33.sharply, won't it? The thing about immigration is that it is affected
:38:34. > :38:37.by many different features. That is why the gum and can never say, we
:38:38. > :38:41.will change when rule and the result will be what we want. We have
:38:42. > :38:45.constantly to work on it which is what we are doing. You cannot change
:38:46. > :38:49.one feature and hope that will have an impact. Free movement does make
:38:50. > :38:55.it harder to control immigration but doesn't make it impossible. We will
:38:56. > :38:58.come to that. Your own government figures suggest 2 million more
:38:59. > :39:03.people in this country as migrants from the EU by 2030. That's a vast
:39:04. > :39:07.number of people which will very a lot of potential voters one way or
:39:08. > :39:17.the other. I understand why people are concerned about it. Is at a
:39:18. > :39:19.reasonable figure? It was an independent figure. I understand why
:39:20. > :39:22.people are concerned about immigration because it has an effect
:39:23. > :39:27.on public services, and jobs and that is what it is important for us
:39:28. > :39:31.to control immigration. But as I say, that is hard. We must keep
:39:32. > :39:35.working at it and that is what we are doing. If you look at membership
:39:36. > :39:41.of the European Union if we were to be outside the European Union, and
:39:42. > :39:47.have some of the arrangements... Setting our border controls? If you
:39:48. > :39:50.let me finish, if we want to be outside the European Union and still
:39:51. > :39:54.want access to the single market, where that is done for other
:39:55. > :39:59.countries they have to accept the free movement rules about any say
:40:00. > :40:05.over those rules. That is a different point. Am not sure it is.
:40:06. > :40:09.3 million more people coming into this country is something that
:40:10. > :40:12.worries people, something you have set out as secretary, you have
:40:13. > :40:17.dropped about the dangers of public services creaking and low-paid
:40:18. > :40:21.people being underpaid or losing their jobs as a result of this and
:40:22. > :40:27.yet under you watch it has carried on and there's no reason to think it
:40:28. > :40:31.will stop in future. If we vote to stay in will vote for hundreds of
:40:32. > :40:38.thousands more migrants coming in the year after year, that's the
:40:39. > :40:40.reality. Look at the facts, the last six years, immigration did begin to
:40:41. > :40:47.fall for a number of years, now it has gone back up, not just from
:40:48. > :40:51.inside the EU but from outside as well. That's why I is a controlling
:40:52. > :40:56.immigration is hard. Not easy because it is affected by a variety
:40:57. > :41:00.of factors. So while it is the government bringing in another
:41:01. > :41:04.immigration act? Because there are things we need now to do to bring
:41:05. > :41:10.greater control into the immigration system. I recognise why people are
:41:11. > :41:14.worried about it. Outside the EU and having access to the single market,
:41:15. > :41:18.countries that have that arrangement at the moment must accept free
:41:19. > :41:25.movement. If you are inside the EU you can change things. People from
:41:26. > :41:28.the At campaign say they would not go into that arrangement anyway so
:41:29. > :41:32.they would not be free movement. We've had hundreds of thousands of
:41:33. > :41:37.people coming here year after year and all your watch, is what you are
:41:38. > :41:42.saying is, stick with us, failed to stay in the EU and the immigration
:41:43. > :41:47.crisis will continue like before. I'm not saying that. I'm saying,
:41:48. > :41:51.stick with us, because we are the government accepted the need to be
:41:52. > :42:04.something about immigration. Other people who have changed the rules,
:42:05. > :42:07.dealt with abuse in the student visa system, there is no to-do, I think
:42:08. > :42:09.that you and I have had this conversation before, Andrew. If you
:42:10. > :42:12.are inside the European Union, you have the chance to change the rules.
:42:13. > :42:14.That is what we have done in the deal that David Cameron and
:42:15. > :42:20.negotiated. Crucially as part of that deal with God in agreement to
:42:21. > :42:26.reduce the factor of our wealth and benefits -- got an agreement... The
:42:27. > :42:37.national living wage has gone up to ?9 which statistics suggest would be
:42:38. > :42:41.a massive pull factor. Can come back to the national living wage? And
:42:42. > :42:45.first finish my point about the changes we have got over the rules
:42:46. > :42:49.on free movement? Crucially, I think this is a landmark decision, we have
:42:50. > :42:54.got agreement that we can overturn the European union, judgments of the
:42:55. > :43:02.European Court of Justice that make it easier for people to abuse free
:43:03. > :43:07.movement. The Shard marriage issue? I think it's important to -- The
:43:08. > :43:11.Shard marriage. I think it's important to say that we can
:43:12. > :43:15.overturn those decisions. Benchmark on that point will we now see a lot
:43:16. > :43:19.of challenges and the British government against the European
:43:20. > :43:23.Court of Justice and some chance of winning them? I'm saying we've got
:43:24. > :43:26.an important decision in the European Union which is about a
:43:27. > :43:30.willingness to say that those European Court of Justice decisions
:43:31. > :43:36.that were taken in these cases, I won't go into the details and the
:43:37. > :43:42.names, those cases meant that there was an increase in the abuse of free
:43:43. > :43:46.movement rules. I think, for the first time sitting around that
:43:47. > :43:50.European table, we've negotiated a deal that says we will overturn
:43:51. > :43:55.those judgments through the use of the new directive. It's a landmark
:43:56. > :43:59.decision, very important. It's had no effect on the numbers of people
:44:00. > :44:03.coming in which remains enormous. Michael Gove said, the latest
:44:04. > :44:07.announcement from the Treasury is an official admission that if we stay
:44:08. > :44:19.in the EU immigration will continue to increase by hundreds of
:44:20. > :44:22.thousands, year on year, more than 250,000 people came to Britain from
:44:23. > :44:24.Europe last year. As long as we are in the EU we cannot control our
:44:25. > :44:27.borders. All true, isn't it? Control of borders and immigration policy
:44:28. > :44:30.are different things. Instead the European Union are not part of the
:44:31. > :44:39.shin chin area. It's a broader freezer that people have -- Shenzen.
:44:40. > :44:44.We have control of our borders. Wouldn't have control of our
:44:45. > :44:47.borders! People living inside EU and live your when they want and they do
:44:48. > :44:54.so in huge numbers every year. Does not control borders. You are
:44:55. > :45:00.confusing immigration policy with control of borders, Andrew. Control
:45:01. > :45:05.of borders means we can stop people entering the UK, which we can. Yet
:45:06. > :45:06.crucially we can only do that if we've got the information that we
:45:07. > :45:19.need... We cannot stop citizens from other
:45:20. > :45:23.countries coming to the UK. We can, it is important we have checks at
:45:24. > :45:28.our borders, but what matters to be able to stop people who we don't
:45:29. > :45:31.want to see coming into the UK, criminals... You can stop a few
:45:32. > :45:35.criminals on the edges but you cannot stop the vast majority coming
:45:36. > :45:40.in and that is not control of our borders. This is very important
:45:41. > :45:44.because control of our borders, when you say we don't have control it
:45:45. > :45:50.suggests everybody can just walk into the UK. That's not the case, we
:45:51. > :45:53.check people at our borders but what matters at the border is that you
:45:54. > :45:57.have information about people that enables you to make that decision
:45:58. > :46:02.about whether somebody should enter the UK or not. We are more likely to
:46:03. > :46:12.have that information if we are inside the European Union, and have
:46:13. > :46:17.access to the various tools. Call-back to the basic point, the
:46:18. > :46:21.vast majority of people come in as of right and do as of right and you
:46:22. > :46:23.are saying there are some people who are criminals, and because of our
:46:24. > :46:27.relationships with other EU countries we know who they are.
:46:28. > :46:32.That's only the case if they have done something very bad and been
:46:33. > :46:37.flagged in advance. Mostly they will walk straight through. I don't know
:46:38. > :46:41.the last time you went through one of our airports and came back into
:46:42. > :46:49.the UK, you probably had your passport checked. You are obviously
:46:50. > :46:53.personal utmost integrity, but the point I'm making is I think a very
:46:54. > :46:57.simple one. I think it is important as people are coming up to this
:46:58. > :47:02.decision, that we are very clear about some of these arguments. There
:47:03. > :47:05.is an issue about free movement, about the free movement rules and
:47:06. > :47:11.what that allows people to do. We have negotiated changes which helped
:47:12. > :47:20.us in terms of dealing with abusive free -- abuse of free movement. A
:47:21. > :47:24.separate issue about whether or not we can check people coming into the
:47:25. > :47:31.country and I'm saying we shouldn't conflate those issues. We have
:47:32. > :47:36.stopped I think about 6000 people since 2010 from the EU coming into
:47:37. > :47:40.this country, less than 1%. If we were outside the EU there would be a
:47:41. > :47:45.visa system so we would know more about who was coming in. Firstly we
:47:46. > :47:53.don't know what the system would be if we were outside the EU, that
:47:54. > :47:57.would be one of the uncertainties. But you say that actually we have
:47:58. > :48:01.stopped people coming from the European Union at the border. One of
:48:02. > :48:06.the other things we have negotiated in the deal is making it easier to
:48:07. > :48:10.stop people. It's about the definition of criminality. We have
:48:11. > :48:15.made it easier, we will be able to stop and deport more people as a
:48:16. > :48:20.result of the deal David Cameron negotiated. And when it comes to the
:48:21. > :48:30.couple in Wolverhampton who were bludgeoned by people coming in, and
:48:31. > :48:34.many other cases, you have no control and people who are flagged
:48:35. > :48:39.have to have been doing something appalling before they came in. We
:48:40. > :48:42.cannot stop people from coming in if they have been child molesters,
:48:43. > :48:48.child killers. The system simply isn't working. There's no doubt we
:48:49. > :48:52.need to do more in exchanging criminal records but I also have no
:48:53. > :48:58.doubt we won't be better exchanging them through the system is available
:48:59. > :49:06.if we are outside the EU. That is being inside the EU that gives us
:49:07. > :49:11.access. This is about ensuring that the border we have the alerts, we
:49:12. > :49:20.can exchange criminal records. These are important tools that are shared
:49:21. > :49:27.within the European Union. Because we have free movement. They are
:49:28. > :49:30.tools that allow us to stop people regardless of where they are coming
:49:31. > :49:37.from. We have a number of systems that we are members of that help us
:49:38. > :49:42.to do that. It is easier to exchange that information and have access to
:49:43. > :49:49.it inside the European Union than it would be outside. 3 million people
:49:50. > :49:55.coming in by 2030, good thing or bad thing? That was an independent
:49:56. > :50:02.estimate. I think we need to control immigration, it is too high. It is
:50:03. > :50:07.an official figure and they say another 3 million people, no reason
:50:08. > :50:11.to think they are wrong. This is happening on your watch and looking
:50:12. > :50:17.ahead it will carry on as it has in the past. I'm asking is it good or
:50:18. > :50:24.bad? I think immigration is too high and we need to control it. As I said
:50:25. > :50:26.earlier and I return to this, controlling immigration is hard, it
:50:27. > :50:32.is something you constantly have to be dealing with, constantly have to
:50:33. > :50:36.be looking to see what new measures we have to take, constantly looking
:50:37. > :50:42.at changing the rules. We've changed some of the rules on free movement
:50:43. > :50:45.as a result of the negotiated deal. People watching this programme
:50:46. > :50:49.wondering how to vote will conclude from this that if they want
:50:50. > :50:53.immigration to come down dramatically and in real terms we
:50:54. > :50:58.should be outside the EU, they look forward to a situation where our
:50:59. > :51:03.national living wage will be ?9 per hour, and the equivalent figure in
:51:04. > :51:08.Bulgaria is less than 90p per hour. People will be drawn to this country
:51:09. > :51:14.in large numbers so long as we remain in the EU. Funny answer the
:51:15. > :51:18.national living wage point because you raised it earlier and I said I
:51:19. > :51:23.would come back to it and wasn't able to. Obviously the national
:51:24. > :51:32.living wage is going up, and people look when they are living -- looking
:51:33. > :51:37.to move out what they will be able to earn. Migrants are taking jobs in
:51:38. > :51:43.the UK that others are not taking. One result could be that residents
:51:44. > :51:46.in the UK will take these jobs. When we look at the vote on the 23rd of
:51:47. > 0:44:51June, it is