:00:00. > :00:08.After a chaotic week for the Labour leadership over
:00:09. > :00:10.accusations of anti-Semitism, and with elections across the UK
:00:11. > :00:13.days away, are we now seeing the beginning
:00:14. > :00:36.of the long-talked-about coup to topple Jeremy Corbyn?
:00:37. > :00:40.As we try to thrash through truth and falsehood about left-wing
:00:41. > :00:45.anti-Semitism, I'm joined by the new Israeli Ambassador Mark Regev
:00:46. > :00:47.in his first TV interview, and by one
:00:48. > :00:49.of Jeremy Corbyn's closest allies and supporters
:00:50. > :00:57.from the Shadow Cabinet, Diane Abbott.
:00:58. > :01:00.As voters across the UK prepare for elections I'm talking
:01:01. > :01:02.to three party leaders - Leanne Wood of Plaid Cymru,
:01:03. > :01:08.Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, and with his eye mostly
:01:09. > :01:13.concentrated on the EU referendum, of course, Ukip's Nigel Farage.
:01:14. > :01:16.So, you may be thinking, what about the Blues?
:01:17. > :01:19.Don't worry, we have the actor and comic Lenny Henry,
:01:20. > :01:21.who is using his magnificent voice to carve a new career
:01:22. > :01:30.# I'm in love with you baby and I do want nobody else
:01:31. > :01:32.You're so fine # Yeah, you're so fine #.
:01:33. > :01:35.And reviewing the papers, a journalist who's become one
:01:36. > :01:46.of the most popular voices on the left of politics, Owen Jones.
:01:47. > :01:49.The Sun's Star columnist Jane Moore and the waspish political
:01:50. > :01:50.observer from the Daily Mail, Andrew Pierce.
:01:51. > :01:52.But first, the news, with Steph McGovern.
:01:53. > :01:54.The Labour candidate for Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan,
:01:55. > :01:57.says his chances of being elected on Thursday have been damaged
:01:58. > :01:59.by the anti-Semitism row which has engulfed the party.
:02:00. > :02:02.Mr Khan criticised the leadership for not acting quickly enough
:02:03. > :02:04.to deal with the controversy, as Labour prepares for its biggest
:02:05. > :02:10.electoral test since Jeremy Corbyn took charge last September.
:02:11. > :02:14.Leicester City could be crowned football's most unlikely
:02:15. > :02:17.Premier League champions later today - if they can triumph over
:02:18. > :02:23.At the start of the season there were better odds on Leicester
:02:24. > :02:25.being relegated than the club winning the title.
:02:26. > :02:30.Now they're on the brink of making football history.
:02:31. > :02:33.Sir Philip Green, the former owner of BHS, has been invited to give
:02:34. > :02:35.evidence to two parliamentary committees after the chain went
:02:36. > :02:41.The entrepreneur was in charge of the company for 15 years before
:02:42. > :02:48.The Work and Pensions and Business committees will be looking at how
:02:49. > :02:50.money was taken out of BHS, leaving a huge deficit
:02:51. > :03:07.Lots of politics on the front pages of the newspapers. The same story
:03:08. > :03:16.again and again, two big stories. Anti-Semitism row could heat our
:03:17. > :03:21.poll hopes, that is after that Ken Livingstone row. And the Sunday
:03:22. > :03:26.Times, the Israeli Ambassador, Mark Regev. Labour in denial, he says,
:03:27. > :03:30.over anti-Semitism. The other big story in the Sunday Times, somebody
:03:31. > :03:34.over anti-Semitism. The other big has been briefing about what will
:03:35. > :03:38.happen to the BBC with the charter renewal. There is an idea that
:03:39. > :03:44.popular programmes, programmes which have been doing too well should be
:03:45. > :03:47.pushed off prime-time. The Sunday Telegraph splashes with that. If
:03:48. > :03:55.they are too good, off they go. That is my advice! The Mail on Sunday,
:03:56. > :03:59.BBC faces Charter ban on Saturday strictly. Lots of pictures of the
:04:00. > :04:03.Duchess of Cambridge everywhere. That is not the Duchess of Cambridge
:04:04. > :04:07.but Nicola Sturgeon with a cane charging through Scottish
:04:08. > :04:16.classrooms. We will talk to her later. The Sunday papers, starting
:04:17. > :04:21.with Owen and the Observer. Anti-Semitism hitting poll hopes.
:04:22. > :04:27.Sadiq Khan is furious about this. He is someone with a very long track
:04:28. > :04:33.record of taking on the cancer of anti-Semitism. Ken Livingstone's
:04:34. > :04:40.implosion last week was one thing, but at the same time he is deeply
:04:41. > :04:44.damaging somebody else. This is a critical point, this whole issue.
:04:45. > :04:49.The cancer of anti-Semitism is very real. It needs to be confronted. The
:04:50. > :04:54.Labour leadership were absolutely right to suspend Ken Livingstone
:04:55. > :04:58.midway through his self-destructive tour of those studios. What they
:04:59. > :05:04.have done now, and I think Mrs overdue, it should have been done
:05:05. > :05:09.years ago, they have set up an inquiry on anti-Semitism. That will
:05:10. > :05:13.look at the scale of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and wider
:05:14. > :05:18.society. The reason I say I wish this could have happened before. If
:05:19. > :05:23.you look at the comments from Naz Shah, that was 2014. The previous
:05:24. > :05:30.leadership. The same with many of the other examples that have come
:05:31. > :05:37.up. It goes back a long way. I would like this commission to be long
:05:38. > :05:40.ranging, no holds barred. Last year there was 1000 anti-Semitic
:05:41. > :05:44.incidents, only a minority of them led to charges. I think the
:05:45. > :05:50.recommendations should be looking at how we take on that sort of
:05:51. > :05:54.anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and as a whole. You have a huge
:05:55. > :06:01.following on Facebook and Twitter. A lot of your followers are upset with
:06:02. > :06:07.you saying this. Most aren't. I will say this to most those people angry
:06:08. > :06:13.with me on this, they say there is this plot... What are they saying,
:06:14. > :06:16.that you are a stooge? That is just my mother! That I am a sell-out and
:06:17. > :06:21.the rest of it. When people say there is a big plot against jammy
:06:22. > :06:32.Corbyn, of course there are lots of people who wish to undermine Jeremy
:06:33. > :06:35.Corbyn. This was his fault. Yes, opponents will always use situations
:06:36. > :06:39.like that to their own advantage, but the fault lies with Ken
:06:40. > :06:42.Livingstone. And now I am glad Labour have this inquiry. It shows
:06:43. > :06:47.they are taking it seriously. I would like that to be the beginning,
:06:48. > :06:52.to lay the foundations. You have to remind people, Sadiq Khan, this
:06:53. > :06:58.might damage his campaign, was one of those MPs who nominated and
:06:59. > :07:03.recommended Jeremy Corbyn to be Labour leader, which was a terrible
:07:04. > :07:07.mistake. I supported Jeremy Corbyn, Siddique Khan did not. He nominated
:07:08. > :07:14.him. He nominated him and now he is the leader. We have had a
:07:15. > :07:18.ferociously directed attack on Ken Livingstone and a very ferocious
:07:19. > :07:22.defence of Ken Livingstone. Bizarrely, from Peter Hitchens at
:07:23. > :07:32.the Mail on Sunday, who is basically saying, he calls him batty Ken. He
:07:33. > :07:36.said they wouldn't their tackle racist Muslims. He said he was at a
:07:37. > :07:40.public meeting with Ken Livingstone before all of this blew up. He said
:07:41. > :07:53.he challenged him about the left's feebleness in the face of Muslim
:07:54. > :07:57.Jew-phobia. He says he thinks this is being used by people to have a go
:07:58. > :08:03.at the Labour Party in general. I wasn't saying that. The issue is
:08:04. > :08:08.deeply... You are saying Ken Livingstone handed a ticking... I
:08:09. > :08:12.was just talking about people criticising me for saying that. Yes,
:08:13. > :08:22.he's saying I'd challenge people within the Labour Party to say,
:08:23. > :08:26.would you denounce Jew-phobia abroad? If not I suspect you're just
:08:27. > :08:33.using the issue to try and win back control of the Labour Party.
:08:34. > :08:36.Interesting. Andrew, the front page of the Sunday Times with these
:08:37. > :08:43.splash from the Israeli Ambassador. They have done a profile of Mark
:08:44. > :08:52.Regev. This shows you how in it was of Ken Livingstone using the name of
:08:53. > :08:56.Adolf Hitler. Mark Regev one of only three children who survived the
:08:57. > :08:59.Holocaust. It puts into brutal perspective why anti-Semitism has to
:09:00. > :09:04.be rooted out and what a terrible issue it has become. Siddique Khan,
:09:05. > :09:12.I hope the voter has enough sense to realise these are not Sadiq Khan's
:09:13. > :09:16.views. This is fuelling everything. Zach -- Zac Goldsmith writing in the
:09:17. > :09:21.mail. His campaign is poisonous, disgraceful. As your colleague, who
:09:22. > :09:27.voted Conservative all his life has said, this is the worst campaign,
:09:28. > :09:31.the most repulsive political campaigning as seen in his life as a
:09:32. > :09:35.political reporter. He would say presumably, I am raising legitimate
:09:36. > :09:39.concerns of voters. I'm allowed to do this. What he's trying to do in
:09:40. > :09:46.the whole campaign is link Siddique Khan with a Muslim with radical and
:09:47. > :09:51.extremists. Project fear. One of the people they have come up with is a
:09:52. > :09:58.Conservative supporter. Who David Cameron called a supporter of IS.
:09:59. > :10:05.The reason he supports, he is a Conservative supporter is Siddique
:10:06. > :10:08.Khan defended equal marriage. He got death threats from extremists for
:10:09. > :10:16.doing so. I find this campaign of fear and attempted tap into
:10:17. > :10:21.anti-Muslim prejudice. I'm on the left and taking on anti-Semitism
:10:22. > :10:25.passionately. I would like more people to take on this campaign of
:10:26. > :10:31.fear. The likes of Boris Johnson, using the Kenyan heritage of Barack
:10:32. > :10:40.Obama. These are issues which are very serious indeed and have no
:10:41. > :10:43.place in politics. If that is something Zac Goldsmith wants to
:10:44. > :10:49.take on... Not the way he is doing. There is a bombing thing here...
:10:50. > :10:56.Another controversial figure at the moment, Mr BHS himself all over the
:10:57. > :11:00.Sunday Times. Sir Philip. The Sunday Times has done an extraordinary
:11:01. > :11:04.story detailing how many months and years he has been writing about the
:11:05. > :11:13.demise of BHS and the threat from Sir Philip Green, swear words,
:11:14. > :11:18.describing getting rid of BHS' as a birthday present to himself.
:11:19. > :11:23.Revealing how well the BHS pension fund was imploding. Sir Philip Green
:11:24. > :11:28.with his third superyacht. He comes across as an unsavoury comment. He
:11:29. > :11:32.will go to the Commons and it will be thrashed out by MPs. The select
:11:33. > :11:38.committees have become a very important crucible... His wife will
:11:39. > :11:43.come over from Monaco, presumably on a private jet, she had dividends
:11:44. > :11:48.paid to her in Monaco from BHS. Because they don't have to pay tax
:11:49. > :11:53.in Monaco. Now back to the BBC story. The charter renewal coming up
:11:54. > :11:59.shortly. A bit of a funny one, this. Most of the papers have it, but on
:12:00. > :12:03.the front of the Sunday Times. This is saying John Whittingdale, the
:12:04. > :12:07.culture Secretary, is due to impose curbs on the corporation. Basically
:12:08. > :12:12.saying if there is a very successful BBC show in prime time and it
:12:13. > :12:16.clashes with an equally successful show on ITV prime-time, the BBC
:12:17. > :12:21.should move their show, which I find rather bizarre, in what is a
:12:22. > :12:29.competitive industry. Three o'clock the morning! It does say it won't be
:12:30. > :12:35.enforced, he can't order it. It is almost like a guideline. A lot of
:12:36. > :12:39.people watch these programmes not at that time anyway, they watched them
:12:40. > :12:44.on their computers. Not everybody has a recording facility. It can be
:12:45. > :12:49.annoying. What has got to do with government question mark there is a
:12:50. > :12:53.parallel proposal, I think in the Sunday Telegraph, that the BBC
:12:54. > :12:57.should have to go back to ministers halfway through the charter review
:12:58. > :13:01.and see how we're doing. There is an attempt for tighter political
:13:02. > :13:06.control of some kind. Which is deeply concerning. The BBC is one of
:13:07. > :13:10.our proudest national institutions and it looks like the government is
:13:11. > :13:15.undermining it, cutting funding... That sounds like a press release.
:13:16. > :13:20.When it's gone... It is not going anywhere, they are not getting rid
:13:21. > :13:24.of it. The other huge story of the week, we talk about Brexit every
:13:25. > :13:29.week but we have another important Brexit story, the aftermath of
:13:30. > :13:35.Obama's visit to these shores. We can almost hear the David Cameron
:13:36. > :13:38.gurgling with pleasure as Barack Obama got stuck in saying why we
:13:39. > :13:43.should stay in the EU. This is another poll in the paper. Brexit is
:13:44. > :13:47.now in favour. The majority of people said they didn't want to be
:13:48. > :13:52.bullied by the head of state of another country. It has backfired.
:13:53. > :13:56.Good, as a supporter of Brexit. Interesting. I think when you have
:13:57. > :14:00.an American president coming over saying I think this is what you
:14:01. > :14:02.should do with your country, when he certainly wouldn't listen to our
:14:03. > :14:11.views on America, I think the general public to, what do -- what
:14:12. > :14:17.does it matter what you think? My husband could give you a pie chart
:14:18. > :14:24.on what Leicester City have to do today. I am glad we don't have him
:14:25. > :14:28.here. Mitu, why do you think I am here? If Leicester City defeat
:14:29. > :14:32.Manchester United today, they will become Premier League champions. I
:14:33. > :14:38.think it is the most amazing story. As somebody said here, the richer
:14:39. > :14:42.clubs have been competing for players from Harrods and Leicester
:14:43. > :14:46.City have ballplayers other people have fundamentally ignored and it is
:14:47. > :14:51.teamwork and they are the giant slayers. Do you wish that was
:14:52. > :14:56.literally true? I wish there was a department in Harrods with football
:14:57. > :15:01.players. I think Leicester were 5001 to win the championship. My husband
:15:02. > :15:05.is a Chelsea supporter so he is keeping very quiet. Talking about
:15:06. > :15:10.another great Northern story, the fallout from the Hillsborough
:15:11. > :15:18.verdict has occupied the papers all week. You have the Sunday Times.
:15:19. > :15:26.It was an historic moment after the 96 unlawful killings, and we can say
:15:27. > :15:31.they now officially got justice, but what a damning indictment of our
:15:32. > :15:35.country that it took 27 years. I think the real questions about the
:15:36. > :15:43.police, cover-ups and the role of the media... OK, we don't have long
:15:44. > :15:48.left. Kate Middleton has done a vogue photo shoot and it is damned
:15:49. > :15:56.if she does and damned if she doesn't. It isn't glamorous one, it
:15:57. > :16:02.is down with the cowgirl look. I think she fantastic but certain
:16:03. > :16:15.critics has said she looks like something from the Boden catalogue.
:16:16. > :16:17.Some are saying Her Majesty shouldn't have done this, have you
:16:18. > :16:23.seen this video about shouldn't have done this, have you
:16:24. > :16:27.Games? It made me giggle. Thank you, all of you. That was the papers, but
:16:28. > :16:29.we move on briskly. During all recent flare-ups
:16:30. > :16:31.in the Arab-Israeli conflict, you may have noticed one man
:16:32. > :16:33.on your TV screens. Speaking for the Israeli Government,
:16:34. > :16:38.Mark Regev has been made him a controversial
:16:39. > :16:39.figure around the world. I don't know if he thought coming
:16:40. > :16:44.to London as the new Israeli It hasn't turned out
:16:45. > :16:46.that way so far. You have written in the Sunday
:16:47. > :16:55.Times, you have been You have written in the Sunday
:16:56. > :16:59.talking about anti-Semitism. We have assumed anti-Semitism was a disease
:17:00. > :17:03.of the far right in this country for very
:17:04. > :17:05.of the far right in this country for is naive? It is naive, and when
:17:06. > :17:10.people is naive? It is naive, and when
:17:11. > :17:13.left at least, they say it is not our problem,
:17:14. > :17:17.left at least, they say it is not themselves. Anyone who knows the
:17:18. > :17:22.history of socialism knows the left has a wonderful proud
:17:23. > :17:26.fighting anti-Semitism but there is also in parallel examples of
:17:27. > :17:32.left-wing anti-Semitism, going back to the founding fathers of leftism.
:17:33. > :17:36.Stalinist anti-Semitism is known as to the founding fathers of leftism.
:17:37. > :17:42.well. The left cannot presume automatically it is immune to this
:17:43. > :17:46.virus. And do you think the virus is alive and well in the current Labour
:17:47. > :17:48.Party? We have seen some language over the last few weeks which is
:17:49. > :17:53.very concerning. There over the last few weeks which is
:17:54. > :17:56.principal people who are very angry about the actions of the Israeli
:17:57. > :18:04.government. You may disagree with them but they are legitimate that --
:18:05. > :18:09.legitimately angry and when they say they are Zionists, is there a
:18:10. > :18:23.distinction between anti-Zionism and empty -- anti-Semitism? If you are
:18:24. > :18:26.out there with flags and saying the Jewish people don't have this right,
:18:27. > :18:30.the idea that the Jewish people would want sovereignty and
:18:31. > :18:35.independence, that is somehow perverse and evil, you have to ask
:18:36. > :18:39.why are you holding Jews to a different standard and there a word
:18:40. > :18:47.for that. There are different positions, people who say, as Jeremy
:18:48. > :18:52.Corbyn's spokesman said, it is a crime for the state of Israel to
:18:53. > :18:57.exist. There are many more people who say the way the Government of
:18:58. > :19:03.Israel has behaved offends and appals us and we are angry about it.
:19:04. > :19:06.Do you accept those people have the right to criticise your government
:19:07. > :19:12.in vociferous terms without being accused of anti-Semitism? Of course,
:19:13. > :19:21.Israeli citizens do it every day. If you follow the vigorous debates we
:19:22. > :19:26.have in my country, it is a robust civil society but it is about
:19:27. > :19:31.demonising the Jewish state. The comments over the last few weeks
:19:32. > :19:34.that have been made public, it is not about criticising Israeli
:19:35. > :19:44.policies, it's about demonising and of the left -- vilification of my
:19:45. > :19:49.country and its to exist. I have spoken to some who feel the apparent
:19:50. > :19:53.lack of the Israeli government in hearing criticism from the outside
:19:54. > :19:59.has made their lives as Jews more difficult in Europe. We are open to
:20:00. > :20:04.discussion and debate, we do it ourselves, the whole idea Israel is
:20:05. > :20:08.not open to criticism is a fallacy because the difference between
:20:09. > :20:12.legitimate criticism and hate speech, and just as there is no
:20:13. > :20:15.justification for hating blacks and homosexuals, there is no
:20:16. > :20:19.justification for hating Jews and that is the red line that cannot be
:20:20. > :20:32.crossed. And do you think it has been crossed in the last few weeks?
:20:33. > :20:34.Definitely. If you listen very carefully, today's modern
:20:35. > :20:40.anti-Semites target the collective June, the Jewish state. Israel is
:20:41. > :20:46.evil, Israel is a perversion. The very same slurs are targeting the
:20:47. > :20:52.Jewish state. Also people attack for instant Russia, they say that under
:20:53. > :20:59.Putin has become a rogue and dark and evil state. Nobody denies
:21:00. > :21:05.Russia's wrote to sovereignty and independence. Why do they deny my
:21:06. > :21:10.people as macro right to self-determination? Would you regard
:21:11. > :21:15.the various campaigns to boycott Israeli goods or nocturnal to
:21:16. > :21:23.academics seminars as anti-Semitic as well? If you were sitting in a
:21:24. > :21:27.university campus in the UK and all of the troubles in the world and the
:21:28. > :21:33.Middle East specifically, which is going through a turbulent period of
:21:34. > :21:37.extremism and so forth and you say of all the countries in the planet I
:21:38. > :21:43.choose to boycott Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, the
:21:44. > :21:48.only country with independent trade union, I just raise the question why
:21:49. > :21:54.are you picking on the Jews and the Jews alone? And the answer will
:21:55. > :21:58.probably come back because of the behaviour of settlers in the
:21:59. > :22:02.occupied territories, the war, and the behaviour between the
:22:03. > :22:06.Palestinian and Jewish people. But if you are choosing to boycott
:22:07. > :22:15.Israel, you are saying it is all the fault of the Jewish state. That is
:22:16. > :22:21.such a one-sided view, it cannot be justified by any objective criteria.
:22:22. > :22:27.Let's go back to the controversy which kick this off, Ken
:22:28. > :22:32.Livingstone's comments, which said Jewish Zionist in Germany had been
:22:33. > :22:38.talking to Hitler. He applied some kind of weird comparison which I
:22:39. > :22:42.don't think anyone follows him down, nonetheless it is true there were
:22:43. > :22:47.conversations because your own Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has
:22:48. > :22:56.cited Hitler talking to the grand mufti and wanted to move Jews into
:22:57. > :23:03.the Middle East. In the first years of the third Reich when Hitler was
:23:04. > :23:08.consolidating his power, so his policy was to ethnically cleanse
:23:09. > :23:14.Germany... He wanted the Jews out and didn't much mind where. Correct,
:23:15. > :23:19.and the Jewish agency was trying to save Jews, getting them out, and
:23:20. > :23:23.saving lives because most of those who stayed behind were murdered.
:23:24. > :23:28.There were great British people organising transport, many hundreds
:23:29. > :23:33.of Jewish children, lives were saved by those very good British people.
:23:34. > :23:39.Now are we collaborating with the Germans to try to get people out to
:23:40. > :23:44.save their lives? Of course not. It is a perverted version of history.
:23:45. > :23:48.Jeremy Corbyn has announced he will have an inquiry into this, the very
:23:49. > :23:56.respected Shami Chakrabarti will be leading it. What more do you think
:23:57. > :24:01.he can possibly do? I think it is crucial for leadership to stand up
:24:02. > :24:06.and condemn anti-Semitism in unequivocal terms. It is important
:24:07. > :24:09.leadership is not neutral or agnostic about anti-Semitism. You
:24:10. > :24:14.have had too many people on the progressive side of politics who
:24:15. > :24:23.have embraced Hamas and Hezbollah, both are anti-Semitic organisations.
:24:24. > :24:27.Yet some progressive politicians have embraced Hamas. I would ask, if
:24:28. > :24:33.you are progressive, you are embracing an organisation which is
:24:34. > :24:37.homophobic, misogynistic, openly anti-Semitic, what is progressive
:24:38. > :24:41.about that? I think there has to be an unequivocal message from
:24:42. > :24:50.leadership saying that there is no solidarity with anti-Semites. Jeremy
:24:51. > :24:54.Corbyn and John McDonnell have both sat in that chair and said I haven't
:24:55. > :24:59.got an anti-Semitic bone in my body. I don't think anyone in this country
:25:00. > :25:03.seriously thinks they are people who paid Jews but they have become close
:25:04. > :25:06.to those organisations because of the conflict. Do you want to meet
:25:07. > :25:14.Jeremy Corbyn and have a conversation face-to-face with him?
:25:15. > :25:19.I would love to. I think Jeremy Corbyn seems to be personally proud
:25:20. > :25:25.that his parents marched against the anti-Semites. The left has a proud
:25:26. > :25:29.history of fighting anti-Semitism but it doesn't mean elements of the
:25:30. > :25:33.left have always been immune to anti-Semitism. I think it is crucial
:25:34. > :25:38.for leadership stands up and says this is unacceptable. Can you
:25:39. > :25:43.imagine someone in the Labour Party sharing a platform with someone who
:25:44. > :25:48.was an anti-black racists, or someone who was a homophobic? Why
:25:49. > :25:53.can you share a platform with someone who is openly anti-Semitic?
:25:54. > :26:00.Good question, and you would like him to come to Israel? Jeremy Corbyn
:26:01. > :26:04.was invited to Israel to visit the leadership, I hope he does so. I
:26:05. > :26:09.would like to talk with you at greater length in the time, but for
:26:10. > :26:13.now thank you for coming to talk to us. Pleasure.
:26:14. > :26:15.Last week, I pointed out the weather wasn't
:26:16. > :26:17.The weather was, apparently, listening and has responded
:26:18. > :26:19.by throwing the most massive tantrum.
:26:20. > :26:22.I was filming in Manchester on Thursday when it was snowing.
:26:23. > :26:24.Yesterday in London it seemed uncannily like summertime.
:26:25. > :26:26.Somehow, this year, spring seems to have been forgotten entirely.
:26:27. > :26:29.Matt Taylor in the weather studio will now explain.
:26:30. > :26:36.It looks like the weather is set to be in a more forgiving mood and it
:26:37. > :26:40.will look more like spring. Grey skies generally compared with
:26:41. > :26:47.yesterday, whether from slowly pushing south and eastwards. Heavy
:26:48. > :26:53.bursts of rain on the hills, lighter patches of rain will come and go
:26:54. > :26:58.elsewhere. With some hazy sunshine across the north-east of Scotland,
:26:59. > :27:04.14 your high this afternoon. It stays brighter for longest in East
:27:05. > :27:10.Anglia, reaching 16 degrees. A rather damp, misty night and turning
:27:11. > :27:14.wetter and windy later on towards the west of Scotland and Northern
:27:15. > :27:17.Ireland, but crucially the temperatures are higher by night
:27:18. > :27:21.than they have been by day for much of this week. The best of the
:27:22. > :27:27.brightness on bank holiday Monday will be in East Anglia and the
:27:28. > :27:34.north-east again, but this rain is followed by some sunshine and
:27:35. > :27:37.showers. None of that snow we have seen, temperatures in double
:27:38. > :27:42.figures, if not into the teens for many. For the rest of the week, the
:27:43. > :27:45.weather will be in a much more forgiving mood, most places will be
:27:46. > :27:50.dry with sunny spells and crucially it will start to feel that bit
:27:51. > :27:54.warmer. At last, absolutely.
:27:55. > :27:56.On Thursday, everyone in the UK will have the chance
:27:57. > :27:58.to vote for someone, with elections for local
:27:59. > :27:59.councils in England, police commissioners,
:28:00. > :28:01.the London mayor, plus the Scottish Parliament
:28:02. > :28:03.and the Northern Irish and Welsh Assemblies.
:28:04. > :28:05.In Wales, the nationalists have failed to replicate the success
:28:06. > :28:07.of their sister party in Scotland, the SNP.
:28:08. > :28:09.To explain why, I'm joined from Cardiff by Plaid Cymru's
:28:10. > :28:13.Then we'll turn briskly to Nigel Farage, leader of the UK
:28:14. > :28:15.Independence Party, to talk about its future,
:28:16. > :28:20.up to Scotland to talk to Nicola Sturgeon, mistress
:28:21. > :28:22.of all she surveys, at least for now.
:28:23. > :28:36.According to a recent poll, 6% of people in Wales back independence,
:28:37. > :28:41.why has Wales, at the moment the SNP is roaring ahead, turned its back on
:28:42. > :28:47.the independence idea? Good morning from Cardiff. This election that we
:28:48. > :28:55.face in four days is going to be a referendum on the health service in
:28:56. > :29:00.Wales. I did ask you why independence... People in Wales were
:29:01. > :29:05.turning their backs on independence? I don't accept they are, it is not a
:29:06. > :29:09.debate going on here in Wales. There is a great need to improve the
:29:10. > :29:13.powers we have and our financial settlement but crucially the thing
:29:14. > :29:17.that people are talking about the most is the health service, the
:29:18. > :29:24.education system, and our economy and that's why the election in four
:29:25. > :29:27.days is going to be a referendum on the health service. From the
:29:28. > :29:31.conversations I have been having, I can feel change is coming to Wales
:29:32. > :29:34.and its about time as well because we have had 17 years of 1-party
:29:35. > :29:39.running the Government in Wales and it is now time for change.
:29:40. > :29:45.We all know that a treat opinion polls with a handful of salt but
:29:46. > :29:49.looking at the polling it shows they might lose their overall majority
:29:50. > :29:52.and Plaid Cymru might be in a position to go in a Coalition
:29:53. > :29:59.Government. Would you do a deal if that's what it came to? I don't want
:30:00. > :30:03.a Coalition Government, I want a Plaid Cymru. Government I'm
:30:04. > :30:06.encouraged by the fact the poll that came out last week, the gap is
:30:07. > :30:11.closing between the party that has led the government for 17 years here
:30:12. > :30:16.in Wales and dominated Welsh politics for a century and the party
:30:17. > :30:21.of Wales. That gap is closing and it shows to me this is a two horse
:30:22. > :30:27.race. If people want change, they'd need to vote for it next Thursday.
:30:28. > :30:31.Plaid Cymru has always been a staunchly pro-EU party. If, against
:30:32. > :30:36.your wishes, the country votes to leave the EU in June, that is going
:30:37. > :30:40.to put you in a very strange position. Because if Nicola
:30:41. > :30:46.Sturgeon, she says that will provoke a second Scottish referendum and
:30:47. > :30:52.possibly Scotland leaving the UK. That would leave Wales as a small
:30:53. > :30:56.appendage to England, back to the Tudor period, the 15 30s and so on.
:30:57. > :31:01.Would that be the moment when you thought Welsh independence might
:31:02. > :31:05.become a live issue again? All kind of anomalies could be thrown up by
:31:06. > :31:10.the result of the EU referendum. Wales could vote to pull-out. Wales
:31:11. > :31:17.could vote to remain while England votes to pull out, and that presents
:31:18. > :31:20.us with a constitutional crisis, you could say. The point for us is,
:31:21. > :31:25.whoever leads the government in Wales after the European referendum
:31:26. > :31:28.needs to be in a position to be a strong voice for Wales. The
:31:29. > :31:34.government that we have had for 17 years has failed to do that, and
:31:35. > :31:38.that is why, I think, it is good if people vote for a Plaid Cymru
:31:39. > :31:43.government, so if that eventuality does happen, then we can be assured
:31:44. > :31:47.of having the strongest possible voice for Wales in the outcome.
:31:48. > :31:50.Leanne Wood, thank you for talking to us this afternoon.
:31:51. > :32:01.These are local elections. With this choice coming in on June 23, why
:32:02. > :32:06.should people be voting for Ukip councillors, what can Ukip
:32:07. > :32:10.counsellors do which is distinctive? We are the only party that wants
:32:11. > :32:14.Britain to leave the European Union and are serious about reducing
:32:15. > :32:18.immigration numbers into this country. Every single local council
:32:19. > :32:23.in this country is under massive pressure. Housing. We have to build
:32:24. > :32:26.a new house every seven minutes, just to cope with current
:32:27. > :32:30.immigration levels. Every other public service is under pressure
:32:31. > :32:36.because of the rapid increase in our population. That is the English,
:32:37. > :32:41.local elections. Ukip are contesting the London assembly, the Irish
:32:42. > :32:46.assembly and in Wales. I think we have a chance of getting people
:32:47. > :32:50.elected to all four. If we do that there will be more elected voice is
:32:51. > :32:53.campaigning for Brexit. Only a couple of weeks after this election
:32:54. > :32:59.that the vote happens in four years or so of these people being in
:33:00. > :33:03.place. My question is, what kind of politics does Ukip represent at a
:33:04. > :33:06.local level and in Scotland? We stand for local democracy. We
:33:07. > :33:11.believe issues should be put to people and they should be able to
:33:12. > :33:15.call referendums on big issues. With Ukip politicians are all levels you
:33:16. > :33:21.will get people who are not afraid to speak their mind. We have made
:33:22. > :33:25.some because in politics in the last ten years, especially about opening
:33:26. > :33:28.up the doors to form, in its countries and what it would mean to
:33:29. > :33:32.us here and we have been right. If you want people to represent you,
:33:33. > :33:34.who are not tied by political correctness and will stand up and
:33:35. > :33:39.fight for what they believe in, we are the guys. Outspoken, slightly
:33:40. > :33:43.fruity councillors who want lots of referendums. I don't know how
:33:44. > :33:47.popular that will be. It depends how much you believe in the property.
:33:48. > :33:51.There is a feeling at national level we don't get a say on things and
:33:52. > :33:55.many at local level feel that way as well. We are on a knife edge when it
:33:56. > :33:59.comes to this vote, the EU vote. If your side of the argument wins, the
:34:00. > :34:03.conservative right and people like you will be much more powerful and
:34:04. > :34:08.influential in the future direction of this country. What kind of
:34:09. > :34:10.country would you like to see us being after Brexit? Self-governing,
:34:11. > :34:13.self-confident and much more global in Outlook. We have become too
:34:14. > :34:34.obsessed with Europe. It is an important marketplace but it is a
:34:35. > :34:36.big world. Those foreign policy answers. They are trade answers as
:34:37. > :34:40.well. In terms of the nature of the state, is it to be, would you like
:34:41. > :34:42.to see a small estate? In the past you said you greatly admired
:34:43. > :34:44.Margaret Thatcher. Would you like or Thatcher like view? I think Thatcher
:34:45. > :34:48.was right for her time, painful though it was. The big figure I can
:34:49. > :34:50.sleep is there are 7% of people in this country, people like you and me
:34:51. > :34:53.whose parents are rich enough to send us to private school. That's 7%
:34:54. > :34:57.are now dominating business, that politics, the media and even sport.
:34:58. > :35:04.The rest of the population is being left behind. A social shape up? I
:35:05. > :35:11.think we need social mobility, a lot of that comes through the education
:35:12. > :35:14.system. Does that mean a return to grammar schools? Very much so. I
:35:15. > :35:19.think the gap between rich and poor is getting bigger and bigger. We
:35:20. > :35:23.have been through a decade where the people earning average salaries,
:35:24. > :35:29.they are 10% worse off than in 2007. That isn't right. When it comes to
:35:30. > :35:33.the future of the party, Ukip Innocenti was created for this
:35:34. > :35:37.moment of the referendum. Win or lose, what happens to Ukip
:35:38. > :35:40.afterwards? If we win the referendum, we have to make sure the
:35:41. > :35:43.British government carries out the will of the people. I have seen
:35:44. > :35:49.referendums all over Europe where the People's voice has ignored. Ukip
:35:50. > :35:52.being strong and making sure that the government and the Prime
:35:53. > :35:58.Minister, which won't be David Cameron in my view, but whoever is,
:35:59. > :36:03.making sure they do go start the process of political force. You said
:36:04. > :36:07.it won't be David Cameron. Ken Clarke I'm not normally some money
:36:08. > :36:11.you agree with many things, he said if we see a change in the Tory
:36:12. > :36:14.leadership and we get the likes of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove
:36:15. > :36:20.becoming the new leaders of the Tory party after this vote, is that when
:36:21. > :36:25.you think there could be a change in that huge historic split between
:36:26. > :36:28.your party and then question what I rather doubt that. People talk about
:36:29. > :36:33.Ukip being on the right. A growing number of our voters come from the
:36:34. > :36:36.left. This Thursday there is a big test across the night at Kingdom
:36:37. > :36:42.come up what will be interesting is to see how Ukip do in labour areas.
:36:43. > :36:46.We are not an offshoot the Labour Conservative Party, we are are on
:36:47. > :36:51.party. I will be talking to Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP. She has said
:36:52. > :36:55.repeatedly it is almost certain of Scotland votes to stay in the EU but
:36:56. > :36:58.the UK as a whole votes to leave it would trigger and other Scottish
:36:59. > :37:03.referendum and potentially the end of the UK. You have been a union
:37:04. > :37:06.Jack Mann all of your life. How would you feel being part of a
:37:07. > :37:10.process that would lead to the end of the UK? If the UK vote for
:37:11. > :37:15.independence, Nicola Sturgeon will have a referendum against
:37:16. > :37:19.independence, and with oil at $37 a barrel, I don't think so. It isn't
:37:20. > :37:23.going to happen. If there was a referendum she would lose by bigger
:37:24. > :37:26.margin than she did in 2014. I will put that to her now. Thank you,
:37:27. > :37:27.Nigel Farage. Listening to that
:37:28. > :37:35.was Nicola Sturgeon. You are not going to do it, oil is
:37:36. > :37:38.too low and you won't mean it? I don't think anyone to put too much
:37:39. > :37:41.faith in the political predictions of Nigel Farage but that is a
:37:42. > :37:45.different matter. The question of whether or not there will be another
:37:46. > :37:49.referendum on Scottish independence lies very much in the hands of the
:37:50. > :37:54.Scottish people. I can't persuade people I didn't persuade in 2014,
:37:55. > :37:57.those who believe an independent, then we won't have earned the right
:37:58. > :38:01.to ask a question again. On the other side, if we see a rise in the
:38:02. > :38:08.support for independence on the prospect of Brexit, I think it would
:38:09. > :38:12.lead to growing demand for Scottish independence. If we see that growing
:38:13. > :38:16.demand, nobody has the right to stand in a way of that. You have
:38:17. > :38:20.always said almost certainly, now you have said definitely. I said it
:38:21. > :38:25.would definitely lead to growing demand for Scottish independence.
:38:26. > :38:29.Not necessarily a referendum. Our manifesto is clear. If there is a
:38:30. > :38:34.situation, what I also have said to you before, I hope this scenario
:38:35. > :38:38.doesn't arise. I hope the UK as a whole votes to stay in the EU. If we
:38:39. > :38:40.have a scenario where Scotland is faced with the prospect of being
:38:41. > :38:59.taken out against our democratically expressed
:39:00. > :39:01.well, I think the Scottish parliament should have the right to
:39:02. > :39:03.propose a second independence referendum. Whether they choose to
:39:04. > :39:06.exercise that right would depend on the circumstances. They are four
:39:07. > :39:08.days away from an election, which is fundamentally an primarily about the
:39:09. > :39:10.health service, education system, the economy and the direction of our
:39:11. > :39:13.country in the next five years. My message is if you want the country
:39:14. > :39:16.to keep moving forward, make sure you elect an SNP government. You
:39:17. > :39:18.have said you think there will be a second referendum called by you as
:39:19. > :39:23.First Minister, which means in the next four years. He said that this
:39:24. > :39:27.morning in the Herald. The next Parliament term is five years. I'm
:39:28. > :39:31.very clear and I don't think anybody listening to this programme will be
:39:32. > :39:35.surprised by this. I want Scotland to be independent. I think it is the
:39:36. > :39:39.best future for our country so clearly I would like a second
:39:40. > :39:41.referendum. I would like to see Scotland be independent. I would
:39:42. > :39:46.like to see that sooner rather than later. It is not just a decision for
:39:47. > :39:50.me but for the majority of people in Scotland. There will only be a
:39:51. > :39:55.second referendum, and only be independence is a majority of people
:39:56. > :39:59.in Scotland want that. In the meantime, if I am re-elected as
:40:00. > :40:04.First Minister on Thursday I will do everything I can, use every power at
:40:05. > :40:08.my disposal to make our education system better, our health service
:40:09. > :40:11.even better, to build the Scottish economy and make jobs. These are
:40:12. > :40:16.issues uppermost in peoples minds as we go into the final days of this
:40:17. > :40:23.election campaign. On this trigger question. You said Brexit almost
:40:24. > :40:28.certainly produces a referendum and you said you want to see the
:40:29. > :40:31.Scottish people's enthusiasm for that, which can only be measured by
:40:32. > :40:39.opinion polls. It is beginning to appear as if a couple of weeks will
:40:40. > :40:42.be enough for you to say the Scottish people want this to happen,
:40:43. > :40:46.therefore it will. The manifesto we published a couple of weeks ago is
:40:47. > :40:50.clear for stuff we want to see clear and sustained evidence independence
:40:51. > :40:56.has become the preference for a majority of people in Scotland. What
:40:57. > :41:00.does that mean? If that is shown not just in one opinion poll or two, not
:41:01. > :41:04.a flash in the pan but something that has clearly become the position
:41:05. > :41:11.in Scotland. How long will opinion polls... I will not put a timescale
:41:12. > :41:15.on that. I recognise talking about the date of a second referendum
:41:16. > :41:19.before we have won the argument for independent is pulling the cart
:41:20. > :41:24.before the horse. I recognise if I want Scotland to be independence I
:41:25. > :41:28.have work to do, patiently and respectfully, to persuade the people
:41:29. > :41:33.that we didn't persuade in 2014. If I am not successful in doing that,
:41:34. > :41:37.Scotland won't become independent. If I am successful, if those of us
:41:38. > :41:44.who believe in independence are successful, we will. If the UK votes
:41:45. > :41:49.to leave the EU won't a lot of Scottish people see that as a double
:41:50. > :41:55.fear? Outside the EU and then outside the UK, a bit too scary? On
:41:56. > :41:59.the contrary, I think many people in Scotland, if that scenario arises,
:42:00. > :42:03.which I have it doesn't, will see as a democratic outrage if Scotland
:42:04. > :42:07.votes to stay in, and the polls suggest that, although I don't give
:42:08. > :42:10.for granted, if that happened, because we were outnumbered in the
:42:11. > :42:14.UK we were faced with the prospect of being taken out I think people
:42:15. > :42:18.would be appalled at that. Particularly not entirely because of
:42:19. > :42:22.this, but particularly because in the independence referendum those
:42:23. > :42:26.who campaigned for a no vote, people like David Cameron, told us it would
:42:27. > :42:30.be voting yes that would jeopardise our mentorship of the EU. I think
:42:31. > :42:35.there would be a lot of justified anger if that prospect arises. I
:42:36. > :42:40.will be trying hard to persuade people to stay in. If these things
:42:41. > :42:45.happened and the UK with out of the EU and Scotland voted to leave the
:42:46. > :42:48.UK, what would the relationship be between Scotland and the EU question
:42:49. > :42:52.that we do have to reapply again question and Gabby Adcock the
:42:53. > :42:57.sessions about this? I am sitting here saying I hope we're talking
:42:58. > :43:00.about a hypothetical situation. -- have there been discussions about
:43:01. > :43:04.that question at Iwobi dragged too far into the realms of spec elation
:43:05. > :43:09.about this. I hope Scotland votes to stay in. I have campaigned for
:43:10. > :43:14.Scottish independence all of my political and adult life. I don't
:43:15. > :43:18.want to see the UK vote to come out of the EU because I think it will be
:43:19. > :43:25.damaging for the UK. I care about every part of the UK,
:43:26. > :43:28.notwithstanding the fact I am a fan of Scottish independence. I will
:43:29. > :43:33.campaign for an in vote in Scotland and I hope people in other parts of
:43:34. > :43:39.the UK vote to stay in. Looking at the front pages of the Scottish
:43:40. > :43:43.papers, you brandishing a cane. Just be clear, it is a cartoon, not me
:43:44. > :43:49.actually brandishing a cane. There is a suggestion you will go into
:43:50. > :43:53.confrontation with the Scottish teaching union and going a bit
:43:54. > :43:58.Michael Gove? I don't think anything could be further from the truth. I
:43:59. > :44:03.have made no secret in this campaign about my passion for education. We
:44:04. > :44:08.have good education, great teachers in our schools, but we still have,
:44:09. > :44:11.like many countries, the gap between attainment from young people from
:44:12. > :44:16.our most deprived areas and affluent areas. I want to close that gap. I
:44:17. > :44:20.am putting forward proposals in our manifesto to invest significantly
:44:21. > :44:25.more money, specifically in tackling the attainment gap. I have put
:44:26. > :44:29.forward proposals to get more of that money directly into the hands
:44:30. > :44:34.of head teachers best place, in my view, to decide how to do that in
:44:35. > :44:36.their individual schools. I have put forward proposals for more
:44:37. > :44:42.transparency around the performance of our schools, so we can know what
:44:43. > :44:46.the attainment gap is and measure our progress in closing it. It costs
:44:47. > :44:55.money. Next year you get the power to vary income tax, would you vary
:44:56. > :44:56.it? I would put top rate tax up if I could be sure didn't lose us
:44:57. > :45:08.revenue. Is that because you are concerned
:45:09. > :45:13.people would leave the country? I have had advised that if the current
:45:14. > :45:17.rate goes up and it doesn't go up in the UK, you could see people shift
:45:18. > :45:22.their income out of Scotland so I would like to put that up but I want
:45:23. > :45:28.to be sure we wouldn't lose revenue from it. I'm not proposing to give
:45:29. > :45:31.higher rate taxpayers the tax cut that George Osborne is proposing.
:45:32. > :45:37.That would allow me if I am re-elected to raise an extra ?1.2
:45:38. > :45:40.billion in extra revenue over the parliament. And I'm not going to put
:45:41. > :45:44.taxes up for low-paid workers because I don't think it is fair to
:45:45. > :45:51.transfer the burden of austerity onto their shoulders. Nicola
:45:52. > :45:57.Sturgeon, thank you for joining us this morning.
:45:58. > :46:01.of the most famous faces on our screens and on the stage.
:46:02. > :46:03.Comedian, Shakespearean, writer and now blues singer!
:46:04. > :46:05.Along with his band, he's just released an album.
:46:06. > :46:09.He came into the studio recently to play us a track and to tell
:46:10. > :46:11.us when his passion for the music began.
:46:12. > :46:15.I was there, I was signed several times.
:46:16. > :46:17.I did a character called Theapolis P Wildebeast,
:46:18. > :46:19.who made such legendary albums such as The Loin King,
:46:20. > :46:22.and people said, well, you can sing, you should make proper music.
:46:23. > :46:25.I began writing songs and writing lyrics then, so I've
:46:26. > :46:26.been writing songs since I was about 23,
:46:27. > :46:34.I had a secret life as someone who collected records,
:46:35. > :46:37.I know you do too, lots of vinyl in my house.
:46:38. > :46:39.A huge fan of George Clinton, James Brown, Prince,
:46:40. > :46:43.So music has played a major role in my life.
:46:44. > :46:45.It might surprise people, this is a very political
:46:46. > :46:46.and, at times, quite angry album.
:46:47. > :46:49.You have a very angry song about the shooting
:46:50. > :46:56.It was one of the last tracks we did for the album.
:46:57. > :46:59.This idea of the police profiling young black men up, so you're 12
:47:00. > :47:02.years old and they see a 19-year-old animal coming towards them.
:47:03. > :47:04.This amazing animator called Sam Chegini,
:47:05. > :47:08.who I think is an Iranian guy, made a video of Cops Don't Know
:47:09. > :47:20.# We sang about Abraham, Martin, Bobby and Jones
:47:21. > :47:31.# We say black lives matter, that's true, but even so
:47:32. > :47:38.# If black lives matter, then how come the cops don't know #.
:47:39. > :47:40.The title song, New Millennium Blues, it sprawls across a lot
:47:41. > :47:42.of kind of British issues, bankers, politicians
:47:43. > :47:50.It makes me wonder what your view is of this country now.
:47:51. > :47:52.Are you pessimistic in the new century,
:47:53. > :47:54.or are you looking forward, in that we've dealt
:47:55. > :48:04.I think the diversity issue, which people know me
:48:05. > :48:09.for speaking about, is something that is uppermost in my mind.
:48:10. > :48:12.A friend of mine says until the people who pick and decide
:48:13. > :48:14.what gets done reflects the nature of our society, the same
:48:15. > :48:20.things are going to keep happening all the time.
:48:21. > :48:23.For instance, in the TV industry, it's like the same seven dudes,
:48:24. > :48:26.who went to the same three schools, get to make the decisions
:48:27. > :48:29.about the same four types of programme we watch all the time.
:48:30. > :48:32.So, it's not just simply that the faces on the screen, it's
:48:33. > :48:33.the people pulling the strings behind it?
:48:34. > :48:37.The people who make the decisions about what we see are the people
:48:38. > :48:41.So that needs to reflect society much more. OK.
:48:42. > :48:43.Finally, tell us about the song you're going to play
:48:44. > :48:47.We're going to do a Little Walter song, he was a harp
:48:48. > :48:51.It's a lively, short song, because that's
:48:52. > :49:01.And we're going to be hearing from Lenny and his band
:49:02. > :49:05.Now, let's have a look at what's coming up immediately
:49:06. > :49:20.We are in Salford, after a week of turmoil in the Labour Party we will
:49:21. > :49:24.be asking is anti-Zionism anti-Semitic? Then comedy, does
:49:25. > :49:32.religion need more humour? Join in the fun at five past ten on BBC One.
:49:33. > :49:35.No-one's going to pretend it hasn't been a terrible week for the Labour
:49:36. > :49:37.leadership after a series of self-inflicted wounds
:49:38. > :49:39.raised the question about whether there was a real
:49:40. > :49:40.problem of anti-semitism inside the Labour Party.
:49:41. > :49:42.It's got complicated, nasty and, for Jeremy Corbyn,
:49:43. > :49:46.One of his closest and oldest friends Diane Abbott is with me now.
:49:47. > :49:50.When it comes to the core question of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism,
:49:51. > :49:55.where do you think the boundary lies? I take anti-Semitism extremely
:49:56. > :49:59.seriously because, partly because, I represent one of the oldest and most
:50:00. > :50:04.historic Jewish communities in the country. Even as we speak, I have
:50:05. > :50:09.Jewish schools in my constituency that have to have special police
:50:10. > :50:16.protection because of fears of anti-Semitic violence. I take
:50:17. > :50:22.anti-Semitism very seriously and so does the Labour Party. There have
:50:23. > :50:26.been 12 allegations of it since Jeremy became leader, it has
:50:27. > :50:30.resulted in suspension. Ken Livingstone was suspended within
:50:31. > :50:40.hours. Where do you think it comes from, this kind of politics? It is
:50:41. > :50:48.hard for me to explain Ken. 12 new allegations, every one has resulted
:50:49. > :50:51.in a suspension. We are creating a new code of contact with
:50:52. > :50:57.anti-Semitism specifically in the rule book, and of course we have the
:50:58. > :51:01.Shami Chakrabarti inquiry. This starts with Ken Livingstone making
:51:02. > :51:04.some kind of supposed link between Nazism and Zionism, and this is
:51:05. > :51:11.something that goes back in the left of the Labour Party quite a long way
:51:12. > :51:18.as we both know. Come on, it doesn't start with that. Where does it start
:51:19. > :51:25.with? It has its roots in the 19th century. I am asking about the
:51:26. > :51:35.connection between Zionism and anti-Semitism made by Ken
:51:36. > :51:39.Livingstone. There are car -- cartoons going back to the 1980s,
:51:40. > :51:46.when you were involved in the Labour Party. Are you trying to say to me
:51:47. > :51:49.that the Labour Party, now or in the past, has a particular problem with
:51:50. > :51:55.anti-Semitism and other parties do not? No, I'm saying the Labour Party
:51:56. > :52:01.has a problem and you are here to address it which is why I'm asking
:52:02. > :52:05.these questions. You know yourself a number of Labour Party members, some
:52:06. > :52:10.of whom are in your immediate family, have they turned into
:52:11. > :52:15.anti-Semites overnight? The reality is there have been 12 incidents, and
:52:16. > :52:22.some of those remarks predate Jeremy being leader. 12. 200,000 people
:52:23. > :52:27.have joined the party. Ken Livingstone was suspended within
:52:28. > :52:34.hours. What is your message to him now? Should he apologise? Have you
:52:35. > :52:40.ever known him to apologise? This might be a good time to start! There
:52:41. > :52:45.will be an investigation on the party will decide what happens to
:52:46. > :52:48.him. A lot of your colleagues think it would be outrageous to let him
:52:49. > :52:55.back into the party and very damaging if he is allowed in without
:52:56. > :52:59.apologising. What he said is so offensive to so many Jewish people
:53:00. > :53:07.he should not come back in again. What more do you need to know? The
:53:08. > :53:12.party will decide what happens and Ken Livingstone will have due
:53:13. > :53:19.process. It is something of a smear against ordinary party members.
:53:20. > :53:24.Absolutely not. It is a smear to save the Labour Party has a problem
:53:25. > :53:29.with anti-Semitism. If you haven't got a problem, why have you set up
:53:30. > :53:36.an inquiry? There's an issue about process. We need to make the rules
:53:37. > :53:42.explicit. So it is not a problem, just a process thing? Anti-Semitism
:53:43. > :53:47.is a problem across Europe, we saw what happened in Paris. 200,000
:53:48. > :53:53.people have joined the Labour Party. You're saying because of 12 reported
:53:54. > :53:57.incidents of hate speech online that the Labour Party is somehow
:53:58. > :54:01.intrinsically anti-Semitic? There are elements in left-wing thought
:54:02. > :54:05.which have gone on for a long time, they are part of the Labour Party
:54:06. > :54:11.and have been equating Jews and Nazis for a long time which is
:54:12. > :54:16.deeply offensive. What about this, here is a photograph from a
:54:17. > :54:20.newspaper edited by Ken Livingstone in the 1980s, Labour Herald. What
:54:21. > :54:28.could be more anti-Semitic than that? It is a smear? I joined the
:54:29. > :54:34.Labour Party because of some of the bravest fighters against
:54:35. > :54:39.anti-Semitism being in the party, there is no basis for arguing, as
:54:40. > :54:42.you seem to be, that the Labour Party is riddled with anti-Semitism.
:54:43. > :54:48.It is not fair on ordinary Labour Party members, some of whom have
:54:49. > :54:52.spent a lifetime fighting anti-Semitism in their schools and
:54:53. > :54:57.community, to get up this morning and here you insinuate the Labour
:54:58. > :55:02.Party is riddled with anti-Semitism. I said there is a very clear problem
:55:03. > :55:09.and you don't seem to be taking it seriously as a problem. How can I
:55:10. > :55:14.not take anti-Semitism seriously representing Hackney? When I have
:55:15. > :55:18.schoolchildren going to school in fear of anti-Semitic attacks? We
:55:19. > :55:25.take it extremely seriously and we have taken all action. I heard the
:55:26. > :55:28.Israeli ambassador earlier. I have spoken to a lot of people about this
:55:29. > :55:35.issue, I think we need to have more dialogue. The board of deputies and
:55:36. > :55:39.the Jewish Chronicle, the Israeli ambassador thinks something has gone
:55:40. > :55:44.wrong and your party has set up an inquiry so what I'm asking is where
:55:45. > :55:49.are the roots of the problem in your view, ideological and politically?
:55:50. > :55:54.Is it to do with an equation between the Israeli state and fascism in
:55:55. > :56:03.Europe? And is that a disgraceful comparison? Anti-Semitism goes back
:56:04. > :56:07.to the 19th century and it would be strange if it doesn't affect the
:56:08. > :56:10.Labour Party at all but the argument the Labour Party is intrinsically
:56:11. > :56:17.anti-Semitic does not bear exposure to the facts. Nobody except yourself
:56:18. > :56:22.has used the word intrinsically or riddled, they were your words, not
:56:23. > :56:28.mine. That is the implication of some of the comments I have read.
:56:29. > :56:34.The Labour Party and Labour Party members have a lot to be proud of in
:56:35. > :56:39.standing up to anti-Semitism on for it was fashionable. Do you think the
:56:40. > :56:46.long-running sort of the behaviour of the Israeli state towards
:56:47. > :56:49.Palestinian settlers has created a radicalised group of people who are
:56:50. > :56:56.so angry about what is happening that they have been, at least loose
:56:57. > :57:02.in their language? There are many people who don't support the
:57:03. > :57:09.policies of Benjamin Netanyahu, but these are matters for debate. Jeremy
:57:10. > :57:15.Corbyn for instance described him as an honoured citizen and gave him the
:57:16. > :57:22.in House of Commons after he had repeated the blood libel. It is all
:57:23. > :57:25.too easy to take it out of context. Anybody who says Jeremy Corbyn is an
:57:26. > :57:32.anti-Semite cannot sustain that argument. I don't believe the
:57:33. > :57:38.British people... I don't think there is anybody out there who
:57:39. > :57:44.believes Jeremy Corbyn hates Jews. You can take remarks out of context.
:57:45. > :57:48.The fact remains, living amongst the people I do and seeing the fear, I
:57:49. > :57:55.take it extremely seriously and the party takes it seriously. That's why
:57:56. > :58:00.everyone there has been an allegation of anti-Semitism has been
:58:01. > :58:03.suspended. What has happened in the Middle East has created huge anger
:58:04. > :58:07.about the actions of the Israeli government and that has caused a
:58:08. > :58:17.kind of bubbling of more and more extremism language. I should say it
:58:18. > :58:24.was said a crime that what was done to the dispossessed Palestinians so
:58:25. > :58:28.let me make that clear. Nonetheless this anger has created an atmosphere
:58:29. > :58:31.in which there have been lots of debates in university campuses
:58:32. > :58:37.across the country. Do you think there is not some kind of issue
:58:38. > :58:40.there that is difficult? All political issues are difficult. We
:58:41. > :58:44.need to have a debate around the Middle East, we need to move the
:58:45. > :58:52.peace process forward, it has stalled. It is a fact the Israelis
:58:53. > :58:55.don't support the current government. We need to continue to
:58:56. > :59:01.have a debate because these are vital issues for the world. I said
:59:02. > :59:05.right at the beginning of the programme, I ask whether this was
:59:06. > :59:11.the beginnings of a coup against Jeremy Corbyn, is that how you see
:59:12. > :59:15.it? People who talk about coups, these are people who did not accept
:59:16. > :59:23.the result of last summer's leadership election. We are talking
:59:24. > :59:28.about Labour Blairites as it were. Jeremy got 60%. I think it would be
:59:29. > :59:32.very unfortunate if we had another leadership election, the party can
:59:33. > :59:38.scarcely afford it financially but more importantly the party should be
:59:39. > :59:44.focusing on fighting the Tories. I have to say to you, if Jeremy is on
:59:45. > :59:47.the ballot, Jeremy wins. He is as popular with Labour Party members
:59:48. > :59:54.now as he was when he was first elected. We can hardly accuse
:59:55. > :59:58.embittered Blairite MPs of causing this, Ken Livingstone started this,
:59:59. > :00:01.whoever he is working for it is not them as it were. Nonetheless there
:00:02. > :00:08.are lots of people around who want Ken Livingstone out... Sorry, Jeremy
:00:09. > :00:12.Corbyn out, who will be looking carefully at the results of local
:00:13. > :00:14.elections. How do you think the Labour leadership should handle next
:00:15. > :00:24.week? I would be dismayed if people were
:00:25. > :00:28.hurling around accusations about anti-Semitism as part of an internal
:00:29. > :00:33.labour dispute. To using that has been going on? I would be very
:00:34. > :00:38.dismayed if it had been going on. What I'm saying is this. Yesterday I
:00:39. > :00:43.was in Derbyshire campaigning for the elections. What Labour have to
:00:44. > :00:47.do is get out and work. Tick here in London, it is important Labour
:00:48. > :00:52.people come out and vote. -- particularly in London. Last time
:00:53. > :00:57.the Tory vote was at 40% but in Labour boroughs it was only 20%. If
:00:58. > :01:02.labour macro people in London, to vote, we can win. Siddique Khan is
:01:03. > :01:05.worried this has hammered his chances. What has hammered is his
:01:06. > :01:10.chances is Islamophobic campaign by chances. What has hammered is his
:01:11. > :01:16.the Tory party. I never thought I would see a British Prime Minister
:01:17. > :01:20.get up in the House of Commons and repeat those slurs. If there is to
:01:21. > :01:21.be an inquiry should be into that. Thank you for joining us, Diane
:01:22. > :01:22.Abbott. Andrew Neil will be here in an hour
:01:23. > :01:27.with the Sunday Politics and more on that Labour
:01:28. > :01:29.story, no doubt. We leave you now with
:01:30. > :01:31.Lenny Henry and his band - from the New Millennium Blues album,
:01:32. > :01:34.this is You're So Fine. # Well I've got a girl,
:01:35. > :01:56.she's fine and brown # What I like about her,
:01:57. > :01:58.she's mine all mine # Well I want to give
:01:59. > :02:39.you all my money # Now you fill my conversation
:02:40. > :02:42.# I'm in love with you baby and I don't want nobody else
:02:43. > :03:20.# Going crazy cause you're loving somebody else
:03:21. > :03:34.# I want to love you all the time, yeah