:00:07. > :00:09.Hard fact: the National Health Service is at least
:00:10. > :00:16.It's a huge crisis for the government and today the NHS
:00:17. > :00:18.takes centre stage as well in the argument over
:00:19. > :00:42.Simon Stevens, chief executive of the NHS in England, joins me live
:00:43. > :00:44.this morning when I'll be asking him about the financial crisis,
:00:45. > :00:49.and whether the NHS would fare better or worse if we left the EU.
:00:50. > :00:54.I'm joined as well by Penny Mordaunt, Defence Minister,
:00:55. > :00:58.who warns that an extra million people will come here
:00:59. > :01:03.And the comedian Eddie Izzard, touring 31 British cities
:01:04. > :01:17.With the best stories from the Sunday papers and online,
:01:18. > :01:20.I'm joined by Iain Martin, editor of the CapX political comment
:01:21. > :01:23.website, and Sarah Baxter, deputy editor of the Sunday Times.
:01:24. > :01:28.Also this morning: I've been talking to Kit Harington about his star turn
:01:29. > :01:31.as Doctor Faustus on stage, and asking if his Game Of Thrones
:01:32. > :01:44.You would not put it past them. Episode five, I suddenly die again.
:01:45. > :01:47.Is that an ominous hint of things to come?
:01:48. > :01:49.Plus, we have music from protest singer PJ Harvey's
:01:50. > :02:08.# The community of hope. # The community of hope.
:02:09. > :02:11.Lots to come, but first the news, with Roger Johnson.
:02:12. > :02:17.The US military has carried out an air strike against the leader
:02:18. > :02:19.of the Afghan Taliban, and they believe he's likely
:02:20. > :02:24.Several drones were used to target Mullah Akhtar Mansour in a vehicle
:02:25. > :02:27.in a remote area of Pakistan, close to the Afghan border.
:02:28. > :02:33.The strike against Mullah Akhtar Mansour took place in a remote area
:02:34. > :02:37.near the Afghan border, just inside Pakistani territory.
:02:38. > :02:39.The strike, carried out by drones, targeted a vehicle
:02:40. > :02:44.carrying the Taliban leader and another passenger.
:02:45. > :02:49.The attack is said to have been authorised by President Obama.
:02:50. > :02:52.It is potentially a significant blow to group which the Pentagon says has
:02:53. > :03:07.In a statement, the Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said:
:03:08. > :03:11.He is also accused of being an obstacle to peace,
:03:12. > :03:13.by preventing Taliban leaders from taking part in talks
:03:14. > :03:15.with the Afghan government that could lead to an
:03:16. > :03:23.Mansour has been the Taliban leader since July last year,
:03:24. > :03:25.after the group confirmed the death of their founder, Mullah
:03:26. > :03:35.The Egyptian military has published photos of the debris
:03:36. > :03:37.of EgyptAir flight 804, which crashed en-route
:03:38. > :03:43.Pictures include plane seats and life jackets.
:03:44. > :03:46.Search teams are still trying to locate the main body of the plane
:03:47. > :03:50.and the two black boxes somewhere in the eastern Mediterranean.
:03:51. > :03:53.Austria could become the first EU country to elect a far right
:03:54. > :03:58.Last month, Norbert Hofer, from the Freedom Party,
:03:59. > :04:02.won the first round of voting for the mainly ceremonial post.
:04:03. > :04:05.It's thought that support for his party has risen because of fears
:04:06. > :04:11.The BBC understands that Manchester United are likely
:04:12. > :04:13.to appoint Jose Mourinho as their new manager
:04:14. > :04:19.It's believed a deal was struck with the former Chelsea boss
:04:20. > :04:22.to replace Louis Van Gaal before United's FA Cup final win over
:04:23. > :04:25.Van Gaal has led United since 2014, and still had another year left
:04:26. > :04:42.Thanks. It is a very busy morning in the papers. The Sunday Times has
:04:43. > :04:46.seen a sneak preview of the Chilcot Report, coming out in July, which it
:04:47. > :04:51.says will savage Tony Blair and Jack Straw as well as the journals.
:04:52. > :04:57.Inside the Sunday Times, two former chiefs of the NHS said it breaks it
:04:58. > :05:02.would hurt the NHS badly. We will talk about that war. And another
:05:03. > :05:09.story to cheer the heart of David Cameron, high Street bosses, prices
:05:10. > :05:14.to soar if we leave the EU. The Mail On Sunday on form this morning. The
:05:15. > :05:20.main Brexit heavyweight newspaper, the Telegraph, trade wars memo shows
:05:21. > :05:24.the EU is costing the UK billions of pounds, it says. There is also
:05:25. > :05:29.something about Turkey this morning. The Observer has a story. Penny
:05:30. > :05:35.Mordaunt is the defence minister who will talk about this. Allegations
:05:36. > :05:39.there is going to be a Turkish crimewave, 1 million Turks coming
:05:40. > :05:44.here within eight years. This is the take of the Observer. There is a
:05:45. > :05:52.more extreme take in the Sunday Express, 12 million tax will come to
:05:53. > :05:59.the UK. Lott likes -- lots to talk about. We can get tied up in a row
:06:00. > :06:03.and details in politics. The Observer says that 50 million people
:06:04. > :06:09.in Africa are facing starvation after a massive new famine there.
:06:10. > :06:14.Iain, we will start with the Sunday Times. It is nice to see a newspaper
:06:15. > :06:18.splashing on something which is not a row about Brexit or the European
:06:19. > :06:24.Union. That is how we felt last night as we put it to bed. It is a
:06:25. > :06:29.reminder that out there, later this summer, is this political iceberg.
:06:30. > :06:35.It looks like when Chilcot is published it will do the reputations
:06:36. > :06:39.of lots of people lots of damage. 1.I would make, will it change
:06:40. > :06:44.anyone's mind about what happened in Iraq in 2003? I dated. There was an
:06:45. > :06:48.interesting column in the Times saying it is the wrong war, we
:06:49. > :06:54.should be talking about our failure is in Syria, not just about Iraq.
:06:55. > :06:58.That is right. We want this report is we can learn the lessons but we
:06:59. > :07:03.have waited many years for it, I fear it is too late. Interestingly,
:07:04. > :07:09.what we learned is that the biggest part of the report will be on the
:07:10. > :07:14.postinvasion worlds of Iraq, and how we failed in southern Iraq might and
:07:15. > :07:18.Basra, and at one stage we were patting ourselves on the back, how
:07:19. > :07:23.well we could manage counterinsurgency and we made a
:07:24. > :07:29.terrible mess. It is the equivalent of publishing an enquiry into what
:07:30. > :07:34.happened in Suez in 1970. That is how ludicrous it is. So much has
:07:35. > :07:40.happened. I remember people talking about once we had invaded Iraq, it
:07:41. > :07:45.would be Minnesota with palm trees, a camel, American-style democracy.
:07:46. > :07:57.The Mail On Sunday is in pretty fervent pro remain, I said Leave,
:07:58. > :08:01.because I got confused. There is lots of talk about rivalries between
:08:02. > :08:06.the Daily Mail and the Mail On Sunday. I got the feeling that this
:08:07. > :08:11.weekend the Mail On Sunday showed -- so that the Remain camp was ahead
:08:12. > :08:16.and they are jumping firmly into it with two three. This warning from
:08:17. > :08:25.high Street bosses, prices to rise if we quit the EU. Why is everyone
:08:26. > :08:31.against this? It is getting silly on both sides? Yes. You look at the
:08:32. > :08:38.splash in the Sunday Express. 12 million Turks say they will come to
:08:39. > :08:43.the UK. That is 16% of the Turkish population, they are expected to
:08:44. > :08:46.leave and come to the UK. Turkey has been a remarkably successful and
:08:47. > :08:50.stable country in its own right. There are questions of whether we
:08:51. > :08:56.should have Turkey and save the EU, given its record and the fact that
:08:57. > :09:00.is the buffer to the Far East. David Cameron is saying that Turkey is not
:09:01. > :09:08.coming into the EU, but Penny Mordaunt will argue it is. We are
:09:09. > :09:12.getting to the heart of it, the endgame of the EU referendum
:09:13. > :09:15.campaign. Over the next four weeks, it is clear that questions of
:09:16. > :09:21.migration will move to the top of the agenda. It is migration against
:09:22. > :09:26.economy at the moment. There is a wonderful clip which has been all
:09:27. > :09:28.over the Internet, from a documentary, Boris Johnson
:09:29. > :09:35.advocating Turkey coming into the EU. We can see a moment of it. 1000
:09:36. > :09:40.years ago, at this place was not on the perimeter of Europe, it was the
:09:41. > :09:43.centre of European civilisation. What will be safe we perpetually
:09:44. > :09:47.keep Turkey out of the European Union because it is Muslim? Are we
:09:48. > :09:53.really saying about ourselves and Europe that it must be for ever
:09:54. > :09:58.against anything with nothing to do with Christendom. Try going to
:09:59. > :10:01.Bradford and saying that. On the other hand, bidders will worry about
:10:02. > :10:05.massive numbers of people coming in. I had to reason me on. The
:10:06. > :10:10.government does not seem to have an answer to the Brexit argument that
:10:11. > :10:16.if we stay in, there will be millions of people coming over the
:10:17. > :10:20.next 30 years. -- I had the Home Secretary on. It is a killer
:10:21. > :10:25.argument for the Brexit campaign. It comes with dangers. As certain kind
:10:26. > :10:31.of voter, if they here that, the here and races dog whistle and do
:10:32. > :10:35.not want to be associated. It is very high risk by Brexit. The risks
:10:36. > :10:40.that are being taken are being taken by some of the politicians involved
:10:41. > :10:45.as well. There is a terrific piece talking about Boris and posing the
:10:46. > :10:49.question, in this referendum campaign, has bodies blown eight?
:10:50. > :10:56.Has he done fatal harm to his leadership ambitions? There is a
:10:57. > :11:01.wonderful line at the end. He says, while Boris's cavalier style can be
:11:02. > :11:07.attractive, it is worth remembering the Roundheads eventually won the
:11:08. > :11:11.Civil War. There is a ruthless discipline at the moment. I love
:11:12. > :11:16.that clip. Is Boris Patrick Leach in his ancestry? There is a bit in
:11:17. > :11:23.there somewhere. He does not sound Turkish, but I think he might be.
:11:24. > :11:28.The other big story is the NHS. You have two former NHS bosses saying,
:11:29. > :11:33.leave the EU and all will be tenable for the NHS. It is odd. The Brexit
:11:34. > :11:38.campaigners are saying, here was ?10 billion you can have. If you believe
:11:39. > :11:42.that the Eurosceptic Brexiteers are the sort of people to pour lots of
:11:43. > :11:48.money into the NHS, you're in fantasy land. On the other hand, if
:11:49. > :11:53.you believe that leaving is going to seriously affect the NHS, you make
:11:54. > :11:58.equally be. It is interesting what these chief executives of the NHS
:11:59. > :12:06.say. Their argument is that we are staffed by lots of European doctors
:12:07. > :12:09.and nurses. They are saying it is a risk, why take the risk? Also, you
:12:10. > :12:13.can set your watch by this in general election campaigns and
:12:14. > :12:19.referendums. With two or three weeks to go, both sides start to invoke
:12:20. > :12:25.the NHS, this great sacred cow. They say if you do not vote one way or
:12:26. > :12:29.the other the NHS will be destroyed. At this moment, the junior doctors
:12:30. > :12:33.have settled with Jeremy Hunt so we are going to get the seven-day NHS.
:12:34. > :12:39.It looks like the consultants have done the same. It is a big moment.
:12:40. > :12:44.Yes, things are finally going the way of the patients. It is a good
:12:45. > :12:48.thing. We want the seven-day NHS. It is something the Sunday Times has
:12:49. > :12:53.campaigned for. Consultants are resistant, but there is too might
:12:54. > :12:58.jeopardise a family is not getting the right treatment. If you fall ill
:12:59. > :13:03.on a Friday night or Saturday night. Iain, saving your blushes, CapX is
:13:04. > :13:06.one of those sites I go to quite a lot. You have some great writing.
:13:07. > :13:12.You have chosen one of your stories that is about to be posted. Thank
:13:13. > :13:20.you. It has just been posted. I have been struck by these extreme skier
:13:21. > :13:24.stories on either side. -- skier stories. It was written by the
:13:25. > :13:33.Conservative MP representing the City of London, Markfield. It is a
:13:34. > :13:41.nice piece. He is acknowledging that the city would survive, even those
:13:42. > :13:46.years for Remain, he is not saying it would shut down within six months
:13:47. > :13:50.of Brexit Broad. That is one thing that is probably annoying lots of
:13:51. > :13:55.voters, there is no room for subtlety in this debate. It is
:13:56. > :13:59.becoming very polarised. Some people will be watching this and saying,
:14:00. > :14:05.what is CapX, what is the philosophy behind it? It is the world analysed
:14:06. > :14:11.in Tech -- intelligently from a pro-market perspective. We write
:14:12. > :14:15.about politics globally. We know where the Sunday Times comes from.
:14:16. > :14:21.In terms of the great reads into the's papers, there is a wonderful
:14:22. > :14:25.piece into the's observer. It is long and reflective. It talks about
:14:26. > :14:27.an important moment in the endless fight between big Tobacco and
:14:28. > :14:32.government health people on the other. As of this week, we will see
:14:33. > :14:39.all tobacco brands, those things we used to carry around, Marlborough
:14:40. > :14:42.and Kallis camels, they will vanish. It will be plain green packets. It
:14:43. > :14:50.is really interesting. It is fascinating. Big Tobacco has lost
:14:51. > :14:57.this battle. What it does not quite get into is what is coming next. Big
:14:58. > :15:03.Tobacco is not stupid. It is investing tonnes of money and trying
:15:04. > :15:13.to invent products which are not... With raping. -- vaping.
:15:14. > :15:20.Your best story of the week? One piece of writing from today's
:15:21. > :15:25.papers, you have chosen Nick Cohen? Nick Cohen has an magnificent column
:15:26. > :15:32.on Venezuela and the left, pointing out it is only a couple of years ago
:15:33. > :15:38.that Chavez's Venezuela was held up as this great icon. I have chosen
:15:39. > :15:42.related to that this fantastic piece from Caracas on exactly what has
:15:43. > :15:48.gone wrong on the ground. If you have but a few minutes, folks, read
:15:49. > :15:52.that? Sarah, the other thing to talk about is Africa. I was saying
:15:53. > :15:55.earlier we get obsessed by what is happening in British politics but
:15:56. > :16:00.around the world bigger things are happening of all kinds and cry out
:16:01. > :16:05.to the Observer for spending a lot of time on 50 million people facing
:16:06. > :16:14.famine after crops failed in Africa caused by El Nino. No rain, and
:16:15. > :16:18.meagre harvest, El Nino ravaging the continent. We always pay attention
:16:19. > :16:22.when it is too late so it is worth drawing attention to this and
:16:23. > :16:27.saying, help, this is something that is really serious going on and very
:16:28. > :16:31.few people are talking about it. Any final thoughts before we finish the
:16:32. > :16:36.paper review? Equipped boat, I want to shout out a cover story in the
:16:37. > :16:41.Sunday Times Magazine about why young women, beautiful, qualified,
:16:42. > :16:45.gorgeous, are boyfriend lives in their 20s, a phenomenon out there in
:16:46. > :16:50.the world. Lots of people out there saying, me, I can help! Thank you
:16:51. > :16:54.both, fascinating. You might think that after running 27 marathons in
:16:55. > :16:57.as many days the comic Eddie Izzard would want a rest.
:16:58. > :17:02.Tomorrow he embarks on a 31-city tour of the UK to drum up support
:17:03. > :17:04.for the campaign to remain in the EU.
:17:05. > :17:11.Thank you for coming on. It has been much talked about in this campaign,
:17:12. > :17:14.people talk about Project Fear on one side and Project Fear on the
:17:15. > :17:18.other but you are one of the relatively few people in public life
:17:19. > :17:23.who is prepared to say, I love the EU and this is why? I would not turn
:17:24. > :17:28.it that way, I'm positive on the EU, the EU has given me huge
:17:29. > :17:30.opportunities to work and travel throughout the whole of Europe and I
:17:31. > :17:53.want every young person, particularly young people, to be
:17:54. > :17:57.able to have the same opportunities. Older people as well but young
:17:58. > :18:00.people need to get registered and June seven is coming up so I will be
:18:01. > :18:02.gunning to 31 cities to say to young people that they just need to get
:18:03. > :18:05.their smartphones, two minutes on this, get registered by the 7th of
:18:06. > :18:08.June. It is the biggest decision of their lives and I don't want other
:18:09. > :18:11.people to tell them how the future should happen. Get registered so you
:18:12. > :18:14.can make your vote. Let me get personal, you are a man of a certain
:18:15. > :18:16.age, why would young people be listening to you? I don't know! If
:18:17. > :18:19.you ask young people, I had people saying at the last election, we
:18:20. > :18:22.should get you talking to young people. I am older than them! Maybe
:18:23. > :18:27.because I came out as transgender at 31 years old, I now tore in French,
:18:28. > :18:33.I too would Germany in German, I have just started Spanish, ran 27
:18:34. > :18:38.marathons in 27 days, I do a lot of positive things which are quite
:18:39. > :18:44.young orientated. In here I'm very young. And you are wearing a very
:18:45. > :18:48.nice beret, I must say. I have my two badges on their, British and
:18:49. > :18:53.European, I'm proud of being both. If young people care about the pound
:18:54. > :18:57.in a pocket then I think it is good, economically, to stay in the
:18:58. > :19:01.European Union and to travel, for the low-cost fares, for the roaming
:19:02. > :19:05.charges, and their health care all across Europe. They should stay in
:19:06. > :19:09.Europe. This is the week in which lots of actors and others from the
:19:10. > :19:14.arts community signed up alongside David Cameron in deep Remain
:19:15. > :19:18.campaign and a bucket of Royal Portrush per the paper said, we
:19:19. > :19:22.don't want love bees to talk to us. Why would we go to actors and
:19:23. > :19:35.comedians for advice? I cannot even spell the word love these! --
:19:36. > :19:39.luvvies. I try to be positive, 27 marathons in 27 days, I have been
:19:40. > :19:43.openly political for some time, this is not something new I have come up
:19:44. > :19:49.with. Would you describe yourself as a radical moderate? I do radical
:19:50. > :19:54.things with a moderate message, you know? If you saw the double marathon
:19:55. > :20:03.on the last day in South Africa, that was slightly radical... Very
:20:04. > :20:07.radical! But it raised 2.3 million, it is a moderate message, it helps
:20:08. > :20:10.around the world. You are standing for the national executive, I don't
:20:11. > :20:15.know if you are a Jeremy Corbyn support or not but after the polls
:20:16. > :20:20.of Labour Party members this week Corbyn is completely unassailable as
:20:21. > :20:24.your leader until the election? He is in 40 Remain group and so am I,
:20:25. > :20:27.on the same side, fighting away. I just want to encourage people in
:20:28. > :20:33.this election, this referendum that is coming up, sorry, that they get
:20:34. > :20:36.registered and get voting. A lot of young people don't know that it is
:20:37. > :20:42.happening, the 7th of June, only two weeks away. That is the registration
:20:43. > :20:45.date? I'm hammering the registration date, because once they are
:20:46. > :20:53.registered they can make up their minds. You mentioned transgender and
:20:54. > :20:56.so forth... Really, here?! There is a big argument on university
:20:57. > :21:01.campuses at the moment, there have been traditional feminists on one
:21:02. > :21:04.side saying, we know what a woman is, transgender person cannot
:21:05. > :21:07.describe themselves as a woman, which has caused a huge out of anger
:21:08. > :21:11.in the transgender community, people very angry on both sides, so I
:21:12. > :21:18.wonder what your perspective is? Am not going to weigh in on this. It is
:21:19. > :21:22.difficult enough for us anyway. 31 years ago I walked out the door, I
:21:23. > :21:25.try to find an honest life, I have played with a straight bat all my
:21:26. > :21:29.life but I try to be open and honest, and surely it is better than
:21:30. > :21:34.closed and lying, and that is the same with the EU. I am digging in
:21:35. > :21:38.France, doing stand-up comedy year, so are the Germans, it is a
:21:39. > :21:48.beautiful thing, it is what humanity does. The EU is trying to be
:21:49. > :21:51.positive about humanity. I wish more politicians were as open and honest.
:21:52. > :21:52.Eddie izzard, thank you for coming on today.
:21:53. > :21:56.If one was looking for a pithy phrase about the weather this May,
:21:57. > :21:59.Will things improve over the coming days?
:22:00. > :22:03.Over to Jay Wynne in the weather studio.
:22:04. > :22:09.It is a mixed bag, some of us will keep the sun shone into the
:22:10. > :22:14.afternoon but that is not the full story. Wenbo showers, long they can
:22:15. > :22:18.be quite slow moving. We have seen a few showers in Wales and the South
:22:19. > :22:22.West today, they will drift eastward and are developing widely elsewhere.
:22:23. > :22:26.Spells of sunshine across the far south-west into the afternoon, it
:22:27. > :22:33.will take into the latter afternoon and evening before they arrive in
:22:34. > :22:37.the east. This evening showers continue to drift eastward and by
:22:38. > :22:49.the end of the night they are confined to sap -- East Anglia and
:22:50. > :22:53.the south-east. A chilly start to Monday but a bright one for many.
:22:54. > :22:58.Showers developing once again from the south-east of England to the
:22:59. > :23:01.Isle of Wight, along the spine of the UK into central Scotland. A
:23:02. > :23:05.chilly feel along the North Sea coast with a breeze coming in but
:23:06. > :23:09.further south and west, lighter winds and some sunshine, quite a
:23:10. > :23:11.nice day. Should be dry pretty much everywhere on Tuesday, variable
:23:12. > :23:15.cloud, a bit cooler with an easterly breeze.
:23:16. > :23:18.Just over a month to go until we vote in the EU referendum,
:23:19. > :23:21.and it's fair to say the campaign has not been entirely cheerful.
:23:22. > :23:24.Each side accuses the other of scare tactics, mangling the facts,
:23:25. > :23:28.Representing the Leave side, I'm joined now by the Defence Minister,
:23:29. > :23:37.You are on the front page of the Observer this morning warning that 1
:23:38. > :23:41.million people may come here from Turkey in the next eight years,
:23:42. > :23:45.which is strange because very few people expect Turkey to join the EU
:23:46. > :23:48.in the next eight years? I think it is very likely that they will partly
:23:49. > :23:53.because of the migrant crisis, which is escalating in Turkey in
:23:54. > :24:02.particular but other access in countries coming in. The Remain side
:24:03. > :24:06.and Vote Leave agree very much about Turkey and migrant numbers. The Home
:24:07. > :24:11.Secretary made a speech at early in the campaign which pointed to
:24:12. > :24:16.questioning the merits of the EU expanding and having a land border
:24:17. > :24:22.with Syria, Iraq and Iran. Your colleague Boris Johnson, as we just
:24:23. > :24:26.heard, is pro-Turkey joining the EU? What is dishonest is to say, to have
:24:27. > :24:31.a policy of expansion and then at the same time deny member state what
:24:32. > :24:36.they need to mitigate the security risk that comes with it. To raise a
:24:37. > :24:41.herself has pointed to the problems of terrorism and organised crime
:24:42. > :24:46.that is in these access and countries. Where we disagree is on
:24:47. > :24:53.two issues, the dishonesty about doing that and then denying us the
:24:54. > :24:54.tools to keep ourselves safe Mullah Akhtar Mansou Mullah Akhtar Mansou
:24:55. > :25:07.and secure, but also that the -- to keep ourselves safe and secure
:25:08. > :25:12.but that the referendum will be our last chance. The Government has a
:25:13. > :25:16.veto on Turkey joining so we don't have to let them join? No, it
:25:17. > :25:27.doesn't come at the British people are not... Thrones is something each
:25:28. > :25:32.country can veto if it wants to. I do not think the EU is going to keep
:25:33. > :25:39.Turkey at -- accession is something each country can veto. There are
:25:40. > :25:42.lots of other EU countries, sorry to interrupt. The expansion policy is
:25:43. > :25:47.one thing, if you are going to pursue that policy, and that is
:25:48. > :25:51.where we disagree with the Remain camp, you have got to and us the
:25:52. > :25:55.tools to protect our own interest and national security. That, we do
:25:56. > :25:59.not have. When it comes to the raw numbers and the way this has been
:26:00. > :26:01.framed, there has been talk from your site about the number of Turks
:26:02. > :26:21.who are criminals, who have guns and so on. It is like a dog
:26:22. > :26:23.whistle and at the beginning of this campaign there was a fight between
:26:24. > :26:26.Conservatives and Nigel Farage's campaign because you're not said,
:26:27. > :26:29.they will just go on and on about immigration, and here we are a few
:26:30. > :26:31.weeks before the vote and you are going on about immigration. Those
:26:32. > :26:34.facts and figures have been agreed by both sides of the debate. We are
:26:35. > :26:36.arguing that if you are going to have these policies and ever
:26:37. > :26:39.expanding the EU, you have to allow us to mitigate the security risk
:26:40. > :26:42.that comes with that. I think it was quite wrong that the British people
:26:43. > :26:45.will not be asked their view on this in the future. The referendum is our
:26:46. > :26:49.only chance to say, no, we disagree with that. There has been a lot of
:26:50. > :26:54.rumblings and were from Government ministers about what happens to the
:26:55. > :26:57.Conservative party after this, even suggestions there will be a spiteful
:26:58. > :27:01.reshuffle, people being kicked out if they were on the wrong side. Do
:27:02. > :27:04.you think this is getting overheated on both sides, are you worried what
:27:05. > :27:07.will happen to the Conservative family after the referendum? I'm
:27:08. > :27:25.not, the party will come together, and I'm
:27:26. > :27:28.not ashamed that there is passion on both sides in my party on this. I
:27:29. > :27:31.think it is a shame that there are lots of people in the world that
:27:32. > :27:34.want us to be frightened right now, but being frightened is not a way to
:27:35. > :27:37.live your life and certainly not a basis for making a decision. What I
:27:38. > :27:39.would say to the public, and I understand how annoyed they are at
:27:40. > :27:42.the scaremongering and falls reports that have been coming from the
:27:43. > :27:44.Remain side, what I would say to them is, look at what is happening,
:27:45. > :27:47.look at the job figures this week, at the money pouring into the city.
:27:48. > :27:50.We are one month from the referendum, there are no jitters on
:27:51. > :27:52.the economy. Also, trust your common sense, the great British common. Our
:27:53. > :27:55.friends and Germany going to stop cooperating with us on trade and
:27:56. > :27:59.security? No, because it benefits them and us. Let me raise something
:28:00. > :28:04.else you have talked about, the effect on the NHS of staying inside
:28:05. > :28:09.the EU. We have had two former bosses of the NHS righted in the
:28:10. > :28:14.papers today saying the NHS would be badly hit if we leave the EU. Why
:28:15. > :28:18.are they wrong? What is your message to Simon Stevens, for instance? For
:28:19. > :28:23.the NHS to drive, it needs to things. If we left the EU we would
:28:24. > :28:26.have the ?10 billion dividend, and extra money is always helpful, but
:28:27. > :28:31.it needs something else as well. Would that go to the NHS? It would
:28:32. > :28:35.be for future governments to decide but I think the British public would
:28:36. > :28:39.put the NHS and social care around it pretty high at the top of their
:28:40. > :28:42.list of priorities, if not at the top. Money is important, we would
:28:43. > :28:47.have more chance of spending more money on the NHS with that dividend,
:28:48. > :28:52.but I think it needs something else as well, and this has been a problem
:28:53. > :28:56.historically for the NHS. It needs the ability to plan better, and the
:28:57. > :29:00.problem with uncontrolled immigration is that it is impossible
:29:01. > :29:03.for our public services to plan, whether it is our hospitals and 80
:29:04. > :29:08.and the particular which was affected by this, or school place
:29:09. > :29:13.provision, it is very difficult unless you can have control, control
:29:14. > :29:16.the numbers coming in, and you can give our public services some chance
:29:17. > :29:22.of making the provision that they need. Do you think it is wrong for
:29:23. > :29:27.senior civil servants that are involved in the NHS to be involved
:29:28. > :29:31.in a debate like this, or is it fair for the governor of the Bank of
:29:32. > :29:34.England, the chief executive of the NHS, to becoming bold in this
:29:35. > :29:39.national debate? I think the public have got tired of this constant
:29:40. > :29:43.stream of hysteria from the establishment. I think that we are
:29:44. > :29:47.going to get more of this but it is not going to have traction with the
:29:48. > :29:52.public. They are fed up of it. There have been some exceptional
:29:53. > :29:57.interventions, my colleague pointed to Mark Carney's intervention, which
:29:58. > :30:00.I think was the tipping point, if you like, when people realised
:30:01. > :30:04.actually there is another agenda going on. You think there is an
:30:05. > :30:11.establishment stitch up? I think so. I think the public are seeing
:30:12. > :30:23.through this, and I think that moment in our history, 1939, 1982,
:30:24. > :30:27.we have gone against the orthodoxy of the establishment, we have stood
:30:28. > :30:31.up and said, no, we are not going to be a nation of followers, we are
:30:32. > :30:35.going to be a nation of leaders and that is what needs to happen in this
:30:36. > :30:38.referendum. The Prime Minister would say we have lead in Europe on big
:30:39. > :30:42.security issues, standing up to Putin and so forth, we have been
:30:43. > :30:47.important that. There is such a thing as the West, and is leaving
:30:48. > :30:49.the EU does help to fragment the West at what is a dangerous time. We
:30:50. > :31:00.have enemies out there. Without democracy at the heart of
:31:01. > :31:03.Europe's institutions, the idea of the strong, secure, peaceful Europe
:31:04. > :31:09.is dead. We need democracy to be restored to the heart of Europe. The
:31:10. > :31:14.EU, on its current trajectory, is totally counter to that. Byars
:31:15. > :31:19.voting to leave, biased voting to get a better deal for ourselves, and
:31:20. > :31:24.what we need to thrive, we will also be providing that leadership that
:31:25. > :31:29.gives other European nations the permission to say, me, too. It is a
:31:30. > :31:33.coming together of democracies. I want to return to this. I am pretty
:31:34. > :31:38.sure we do have a veto over stopping Turkey if we want to. I think, with
:31:39. > :31:42.the current situation, the migrant crisis and other issues that are
:31:43. > :31:50.going on in Europe at the moment, that we will be unable to stop
:31:51. > :31:53.Turkey joining. You think we will be bullied into it? I think the British
:31:54. > :31:56.public, this is a matter for the British people to decide. The only
:31:57. > :32:00.chance they will get to express a view on this is in this referendum.
:32:01. > :32:05.If we not -- if we do not want Turkey in, we can stop Turkey from
:32:06. > :32:10.coming? I do not think the UK will be able to stop Turkey from joining.
:32:11. > :32:13.Penny Mordaunt, thank you very much for talking to me.
:32:14. > :32:16.Game Of Thrones has transformed from a cult TV show into the most
:32:17. > :32:22.Part of that runaway global success is down to Kit Harington.
:32:23. > :32:25.His smouldering turn as Jon Snow in the series has made him one
:32:26. > :32:28.The character's death and resurrection earlier this year
:32:29. > :32:33.I caught up with Kit on stage in London where he's currently
:32:34. > :32:34.playing Doctor Faustus in a controversial version
:32:35. > :32:44.But first, naturally, we talked Thrones!
:32:45. > :32:57.What do you want me to do with this?
:32:58. > :33:17.I think every now and again something comes along
:33:18. > :33:25.At the right time and the right place, at first with Thrones,
:33:26. > :33:29.I think it is just brilliantly written.
:33:30. > :33:39.And it reaches out in a way that lots of television does not.
:33:40. > :33:42.Tell us the story, I think you had an encounter with a traffic
:33:43. > :33:43.policeman recently which proved the point.
:33:44. > :33:50.This was a little while ago, when I had just died on Thrones.
:33:51. > :33:53.Spoilers had not yet been brought back.
:33:54. > :33:56.This policeman pulled me over at the side of the
:33:57. > :34:03.He said to me, do you know how fast you were going, sir?
:34:04. > :34:09.I said, yes, officer, I am terribly sorry.
:34:10. > :34:13.He said, there are two ways we can deal with this,
:34:14. > :34:17.you can follow me to the station now and we can book you in and it
:34:18. > :34:21.will be at least a fine if not more, or you can tell me whether you're
:34:22. > :34:23.alive in the next season of Game Of Thrones.
:34:24. > :34:29.I laughed like you just laughed, and he was completely stony faced.
:34:30. > :34:32.He said, I have to tell you what happens next, whether I take
:34:33. > :34:34.you into the station depends on what your answer is.
:34:35. > :34:39.And he said, on your way, Lord Commander.
:34:40. > :34:44.We are post-spoiler, you have come back.
:34:45. > :34:47.Presumably you're going to stick with it for a while.
:34:48. > :34:49.They are not going to kill you off again.
:34:50. > :34:53.You would not put it past them though.
:34:54. > :34:58.Episode five of Game Of Thrones, I suddenly die again.
:34:59. > :35:01.Jon Snow will get really cocky because now he is immortal,
:35:02. > :35:06.You're in a very strange area with Game Of Thrones.
:35:07. > :35:08.It could dominate your life for many years to come yet.
:35:09. > :35:12.Is that a scary or unpleasant prospect?
:35:13. > :35:19.I hope it does not and I know it will not.
:35:20. > :35:22.Any good TV show must be like any good book, like any good
:35:23. > :35:42.Kit Marlowe, after whom I think you were named, Christopher Marlowe,
:35:43. > :35:45.was, if anybody was, the nearest to a Game Of Thrones
:35:46. > :35:47.writer, he is the one that does the sex, the violence,
:35:48. > :35:50.the full on gore on stage, so there is a connection
:35:51. > :35:54.He was very controversial in his time.
:35:55. > :35:59.This play, Faustus was very much the horror movie of its era.
:36:00. > :36:04.Everyone believed in real demons, real devils.
:36:05. > :36:07.This was a shocking piece of theatre when it was first put on.
:36:08. > :36:09.Not least because he was a known atheist,
:36:10. > :36:15.This play was all about him questioning the realities
:36:16. > :36:24.In the same way Thrones can be, it was very controversial.
:36:25. > :36:27.It is about selling your soul for fame in a sense.
:36:28. > :36:34.The major difference I think is that right at the root
:36:35. > :36:37.of it, the set we are on, it is just his own bedroom.
:36:38. > :36:40.What he really is, at the heart of it, is a man going
:36:41. > :36:42.through a psychotic episode, thinking he's a magician
:36:43. > :36:45.and travelling the world, selling his soul to the devil,
:36:46. > :36:50.and actually he is stuck in his own room going mad,
:36:51. > :36:53.which is sad, but also can be quite funny, can be quite dark comedy.
:36:54. > :37:01.This is also famously a really full on, quite shocking production
:37:02. > :37:06.because there is nudity, Y-fronts, vomit, blood, the lot.
:37:07. > :37:14.Some of the critics have been a bit disconcerted by that,
:37:15. > :37:19.I do not think we have put this on particularly for critics.
:37:20. > :37:23.But I have noticed what the audience reaction has been, which has been
:37:24. > :37:25.vocal, they have been with us every night,
:37:26. > :37:27.and they have been really, really enjoying it.
:37:28. > :37:30.Partly because of Game Of Thrones and yourself, you have brought
:37:31. > :37:32.in a much younger audience than you would normally
:37:33. > :37:35.That in itself could be a good thing?
:37:36. > :37:47.By having me here, we are bringing in an audience who maybe do not
:37:48. > :37:51.They may be more TV watchers, Game Of Thrones fans.
:37:52. > :37:54.Here we have a younger generation of new theatre goers
:37:55. > :37:56.and that is incredibly important, why we are doing this
:37:57. > :37:59.play and why I have been chosen to be in this play.
:38:00. > :38:03.You have become a huge star with Game Of Thrones.
:38:04. > :38:07.Do you have plans or hopes for big films post-theatre?
:38:08. > :38:09.I do not have a plan to try and storm Hollywood.
:38:10. > :38:17.I am producing and writing a TV drama.
:38:18. > :38:19.I am quite interested in the idea of producing.
:38:20. > :38:22.This is about Guy Fawkes and the gunpowder plot.
:38:23. > :38:24.One of my ancestors was Robert Catesby.
:38:25. > :38:29.I can see it, I can see a bit of Catesby.
:38:30. > :38:34.There is fascinating story, Robert Catesby, when his head,
:38:35. > :38:37.that was on my mother's side, when his head was marched past
:38:38. > :38:40.the Houses of Parliament on a pike, John Harrington, on my father's
:38:41. > :38:43.side, who was in the Houses of Parliament at the time,
:38:44. > :38:48.looked at him and said, he is an ugly fellow, isn't he?
:38:49. > :38:51.That is pure Game Of Thrones, the head bobbing past.
:38:52. > :38:53.Are you fascinated by political insurrection and overturning
:38:54. > :39:07.The reason why this piece I am writing I think is incredibly
:39:08. > :39:09.important, it is maybe one of the first instances
:39:10. > :39:12.of ideological terrorism in Western Europe.
:39:13. > :39:14.By group of young men who were disenfranchised
:39:15. > :39:20.Stamped on because they were Catholic.
:39:21. > :39:22.I cannot think of anything more relevant.
:39:23. > :39:30.I think that is definitely ready to be dramatised.
:39:31. > :39:37.Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
:39:38. > :39:47.And Doctor Faustus is at the Duke of York's Theatre in
:39:48. > :39:50.The depth of the financial problems facing the health service in England
:39:51. > :39:53.was revealed last week: two-thirds of NHS trusts in the red,
:39:54. > :39:56.and a record overall deficit of ?2.5 billion.
:39:57. > :39:58.Yet the government says it's safeguarded the NHS with the money
:39:59. > :40:01.it needs to fund new drugs and treatments and to become
:40:02. > :40:06.I'm joined by the Chief Executive of the NHS, Simon Stevens.
:40:07. > :40:18.Before we get going, I think people should see the graph which shows the
:40:19. > :40:24.massive amount of red streaks. That is 2013. It is a massive deficit,
:40:25. > :40:28.appealing very fast. Chris Hobson has argued this is because of two
:40:29. > :40:33.things, because of unprecedented levels of demand for the NHS, and
:40:34. > :40:38.frankly the financials queasy is too tight. Both those things are true.
:40:39. > :40:42.Demand is continuing to rise. The NHS is looking after more patients
:40:43. > :40:45.and looking after them better each year and we are doing that in the
:40:46. > :40:50.context of five years into the deepest slowdown in funding growth
:40:51. > :40:54.we have had, because of the need to dig ourselves out of the effects of
:40:55. > :41:00.the recession, for the British economy. Having said that, the
:41:01. > :41:03.figures you have there are just part of the story. We have another 600
:41:04. > :41:07.million of offsetting savings that will be shown on the results of next
:41:08. > :41:13.week, so the net position for the NHS as a whole, is not what is on
:41:14. > :41:18.that graph. It is bad but not that bad? There is no doubt the 2016 has
:41:19. > :41:22.been a year of incredible financial pressure. That is why we have a
:41:23. > :41:27.different approach for the ahead. We argue we would need a front-loaded
:41:28. > :41:31.funding settlement in the spending review. We have got that. We will be
:41:32. > :41:41.able to put more funding into hospitals. I am confident that as a
:41:42. > :41:43.result the deficit will come down very substantially, this year
:41:44. > :41:46.compared to last. Have you got enough money? We are going to have
:41:47. > :41:49.to cut our cloth according to the funding we have got. Over the next
:41:50. > :41:56.five years we will see NHS funding going up from about ?100 billion a
:41:57. > :42:00.year in England ?219 billion. That is an increase, not as fast as
:42:01. > :42:06.historically the NHS has enjoyed, but it is an increase. I am sorry to
:42:07. > :42:11.use figures, but there is a ?30 billion black hole, of which 22
:42:12. > :42:14.billion is coming from savings by 2020, and big billion from the
:42:15. > :42:18.government. There is massive scepticism around as to whether
:42:19. > :42:25.those savings can be delivered at that rate. How is it going? We have
:42:26. > :42:30.a plan to make the savings. Let's be clear, we're not talking about cuts
:42:31. > :42:33.in the level of spending in the NHS, we are talking about the extent to
:42:34. > :42:38.which we can create more headroom to deal with the extra pressures and
:42:39. > :42:43.treatments we want to offer over the five years. Let me read you, the
:42:44. > :42:50.chief executive of the NHS providers trust. He has key for savings at
:42:51. > :42:53.three times the NHS average. He says it will never work. No one believes
:42:54. > :42:58.that these savings will be enough to cover the large financial gap that
:42:59. > :43:04.is rapidly opening up. That is why we're not doing that. Rather than
:43:05. > :43:10.asking for 4% of savings, 2% would be efficient, more realistic in
:43:11. > :43:15.terms of expectations for NHS hospitals. For every pound of
:43:16. > :43:19.headroom we want to create, only 40p in the pound will come from those
:43:20. > :43:25.kind of savings. There are other things we need to do nationally and
:43:26. > :43:30.more fundamentally, we have a need to change the way clear is organised
:43:31. > :43:33.between GPs and mental health care. If you're not going for all the
:43:34. > :43:37.savings you were going for the government's money is not going up
:43:38. > :43:42.at all, clearly there is going to be a gap. Do you not have to go back
:43:43. > :43:46.and ask for more for the government -- from the government? You said
:43:47. > :43:50.this was the bottom end of what was needed. Since then all that red has
:43:51. > :43:55.appeared on the graph. Do you not need to go to George Osborne and
:43:56. > :44:10.say, we have to come with our cab once more? For the
:44:11. > :44:13.year we are in, we have got the funding increases we need to
:44:14. > :44:16.kick-start the changes that the health service needs to bring about.
:44:17. > :44:18.On the back of that we will make substantial inroads into the
:44:19. > :44:21.hospital deficit. Over time, the NHS will need to share the fruits of
:44:22. > :44:23.economic growth in this country. That is why it is critically
:44:24. > :44:26.important for the NHS that the British economy continues to do
:44:27. > :44:30.well. I have worked in the NHS on another 20 years. The moments when
:44:31. > :44:34.the NHS has been under the most pressure are the moments when the
:44:35. > :44:39.British economy has stalled. The connection between the two is
:44:40. > :44:42.crucial. If the British economy carries on growing, you think the
:44:43. > :44:46.government needs to put more than the ?8 billion in to get the
:44:47. > :44:52.seven-day working week and everything it wants? We have said we
:44:53. > :44:55.need that as a minimum in order to deliver the kinds of improvements in
:44:56. > :44:58.the NHS we want to create over time. That will be a question for
:44:59. > :45:03.governments to consider alongside other priorities. There is an
:45:04. > :45:07.argument that says if there was more money available soon, social care is
:45:08. > :45:12.an important place to put that money. We are currently spending
:45:13. > :45:16.around ?1 billion a year and patients who are stuck in hospital
:45:17. > :45:20.who could be looked after outside hospital.
:45:21. > :45:27.David Laws was sitting there not so long ago and said you had asked for
:45:28. > :45:30.more than ?8 billion, but they had rather sad to new and it was the
:45:31. > :45:35.most you felt you could get before the election, is that true? It is no
:45:36. > :45:39.secret what we asked for, it is on the NHS England website. We said in
:45:40. > :45:46.the five-year review that the NHS would need at least 8 billion at
:45:47. > :45:51.that, in turn, we had to make sufficient deficiencies, and the
:45:52. > :45:55.assessment of that and the Spending Review are there publicly for
:45:56. > :46:00.everybody to see. Very simple, do you want more than ?8 billion?
:46:01. > :46:03.Overtime, the NHS would benefit from extra investment but for that to
:46:04. > :46:08.happen we understand the economy as a whole has got to grow. Two of your
:46:09. > :46:12.predecessors say the NHS would suffer if we left the EU. We just
:46:13. > :46:17.heard Penny Mordaunt and lots of other saying that if we leave the EU
:46:18. > :46:23.we get a ?10 billion bonus, as it were, and most of that goes straight
:46:24. > :46:27.to the NHS, it would solve all your problems? I take very seriously the
:46:28. > :46:30.conversation you had with the governor of the Bank of England who
:46:31. > :46:35.was sitting in this chair last week and when Mark Carney says that the
:46:36. > :46:43.risk of a slowdown in economic growth, possibly a recession, if we
:46:44. > :46:47.end up X sitting the EU, if Mark Carney is right then that is a
:46:48. > :46:51.severe concern -- if we end up leaving the EU. That is a concern
:46:52. > :46:56.for the health service because it would be dangerous if at precisely
:46:57. > :47:00.the moment the NHS will need extra funding the economy goes into a
:47:01. > :47:05.tailspin and the funding is not fair. What would it mean in real
:47:06. > :47:09.terms for the NHS? We can see that we are able, we have got a clear
:47:10. > :47:13.plan to improve cancer services, saving 30,000 lives over the next
:47:14. > :47:16.five years, we need to upgrade Mental Health Services and
:47:17. > :47:21.strengthen primary care in order to put the fuel in the tank we need the
:47:22. > :47:25.proceeds of economic growth. An economic shock would put lives at
:47:26. > :47:29.risk, you would not get the cancer care and support that you would
:47:30. > :47:34.otherwise invest in? Through the 68 years of the NHS's history, when the
:47:35. > :47:37.British economy sneezes the NHS catches a cold. This would be a
:47:38. > :47:41.terrible moment for that to happen at precisely the time the NHS is
:47:42. > :47:45.going to need the extra investment. As the man in charge of the NHS, you
:47:46. > :47:52.are saying to voters now, bowed to stay inside the EU to protect the
:47:53. > :47:58.NHS? It is not my job to do that at all, I'm simply assessing, speaking
:47:59. > :48:04.for the NHS and talking about what the NHS will require, and I think
:48:05. > :48:08.any nurse, any doctor, any patient will tell you that, over time, the
:48:09. > :48:14.NHS is going to need more investment. The reality is, anything
:48:15. > :48:18.that puts out at risk is a deep concern. Let me put you the other
:48:19. > :48:32.side of the argument, in Mark Carney's comments and other
:48:33. > :48:37.comments, lots of ifs and maybes, whereas on the Brexit side they say,
:48:38. > :48:41.here is a concrete ?10 million bonus that we get from leaving the EU and
:48:42. > :48:47.it goes to you guys, you are swapping a concrete, serious upfront
:48:48. > :48:53.and relatively quick offer of money for the worry of what might happen
:48:54. > :48:56.in the distant future? Unfortunately the UK statistics authority has
:48:57. > :49:01.shown that that isn't actually money that would be available to the NHS
:49:02. > :49:06.because when you met off what we did with what we receive it is a rather
:49:07. > :49:11.lower figure than that, and even if all of it were deployed to the NHS,
:49:12. > :49:18.it is enough to fund the NHS for 19 days each year. It will fund us from
:49:19. > :49:23.19 days a year. For the other 11.5 months, it is the performance of the
:49:24. > :49:27.economy which will count. So he rejected that argument, but what
:49:28. > :49:32.about migration? To raise a admitted that we could see an extra 3 million
:49:33. > :49:36.people coming in from across the EU if we stay, and then there are
:49:37. > :49:40.argument about Turkey and so forth. One of the big questions on the NHS
:49:41. > :49:44.right now in accident and emergency department is the sheer numbers of
:49:45. > :49:47.people coming through the doors. More migration means more people
:49:48. > :49:53.coming through the doors, more pressure on the NHS, and the crisis
:49:54. > :49:57.gets worse, not better. The NHS has benefited enormously from EU nurses
:49:58. > :50:04.and doctors who we successfully recruit and help staff our hospitals
:50:05. > :50:08.and nursing homes. Take an example, this morning I was looking at the
:50:09. > :50:14.figures of Penny Mordaunt's local hospital as she was talking. 80 of
:50:15. > :50:18.the doctors are from the rest of the European Union, 350 nurses in her
:50:19. > :50:23.local hospital from the European Union, and if a proportion of those
:50:24. > :50:26.chose to obstacle and leave on the 24th of June, it would create real
:50:27. > :50:30.problems in hospitals across the country. But why would they? There
:50:31. > :50:37.is a Strasberg agreement, they don't have to go, they can stay if they
:50:38. > :50:41.want to. If there are work permits, migration resumes, the rest of it,
:50:42. > :50:46.my point is that the NHS has benefited greatly from the ability
:50:47. > :50:49.to have European Union nurses alongside the increases we need a
:50:50. > :50:55.British trained nurses, doctors, which we are putting in place. In
:50:56. > :50:58.proportional terms and in broad terms there were far more from
:50:59. > :51:04.India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and so forth than from the rest of the EU.
:51:05. > :51:10.Across the whole of the NHS, EU employees are only around 5% so it
:51:11. > :51:14.is not Armageddon? We have 130,000 European Union nurses, doctors, care
:51:15. > :51:19.workers in the NHS and care homes and we would surely miss the
:51:20. > :51:25.benefits they bring, were some of them to choose to leave. But you
:51:26. > :51:29.asked a related question about the impact of migration, the pressure on
:51:30. > :51:35.services that it places. This is not black and white. It clearly isn't
:51:36. > :51:41.the case that where those migrants are paying taxes, it is contributing
:51:42. > :51:47.to the revenues that can forge and expand the NHS. When the NHS was set
:51:48. > :51:51.up in 1948 we had a population of 50 million in this country, we are at
:51:52. > :51:56.65 million now that the NHS has successfully coped with a 15 million
:51:57. > :51:59.expansion in our population, provided it is properly resourced
:52:00. > :52:04.from the proceeds of economic growth it can do that. There is a perfectly
:52:05. > :52:08.legitimate argument to be had on these topics but from the NHS'
:52:09. > :52:14.perspective it is pretty clear that the balance of the advantage is such
:52:15. > :52:18.that risks would be greater were we to find ourselves in economic
:52:19. > :52:22.downturn, were we to find a number of our nurses and doctors
:52:23. > :52:25.contemplated leaving and, indeed, if the pound were affected because a
:52:26. > :52:29.lot of the drug treatments that we buy are priced in euros and dollars
:52:30. > :52:34.so that would make it more difficult for us to get the treatments that we
:52:35. > :52:38.need at an affordable price. That is pretty clear. It is a big moment for
:52:39. > :52:41.somebody in your position to enter this political debate so
:52:42. > :52:46.forthrightly. Did you have a long look in the mirror before you did?
:52:47. > :52:50.Everybody else has an opinion about the NHS, and therefore I think it is
:52:51. > :52:58.perfectly reasonable for the NHS itself, when asked, to lay out the
:52:59. > :53:01.balance of the advantage, objective, in an non-sensationalist way, these
:53:02. > :53:05.are the practicalities the NHS would be facing, and as one of the
:53:06. > :53:09.nation's most important institutions it seems reasonable that as we take
:53:10. > :53:14.one of these big important national decisions it goes into the balance.
:53:15. > :53:23.This week we had a big Government U-turn over the so-called TTIP
:53:24. > :53:28.issue, which are a lot of people felt the NHS would be threatened by,
:53:29. > :53:30.opening it up to Private American pharmaceutical and health care
:53:31. > :53:35.companies coming in and grabbing bits of the NHS. Were you as worried
:53:36. > :53:39.about the TTIP at Ayew relieved that the U-turn have happened? The
:53:40. > :53:42.European commission has been completely straight that nothing in
:53:43. > :53:48.any trade agreement would undermine our ability to run a publicly funded
:53:49. > :53:52.service, to the extent that the Government has also given as yours
:53:53. > :53:56.is on that point today. I think that is a concern that has now updated.
:53:57. > :53:58.Thank you for joining us today, it is all we have got time for.
:53:59. > :54:01.You may have noticed that all sorts of claims and statistics
:54:02. > :54:04.are being thrown around by both sides in this referendum campaign.
:54:05. > :54:07.To get to the facts behind them, the BBC is attempting -
:54:08. > :54:11.Have a look at the BBC website for all the details.
:54:12. > :54:14.And now, a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme.
:54:15. > :54:23.Join us live from Oxford when an alliance of former leading police
:54:24. > :54:26.officers in 26 organisations attacked the Government's counter
:54:27. > :54:30.extremism bill and we ask if the proposals are compatible with
:54:31. > :54:34.freedom of religion. Then, should abortion be decriminalised? That is
:54:35. > :54:35.on BBC One at 10am. Two very interesting questions
:54:36. > :54:37.there. That's all we have time for today -
:54:38. > :54:40.thanks to all my guests. Andrew Neil will be here
:54:41. > :54:43.with the Sunday Politics in an hour. He'll be talking to Lord Owen
:54:44. > :54:47.about why he thinks the NHS is safer PJ Harvey will play us out
:54:48. > :54:52.in a moment with The Community Of Hope from her new number one
:54:53. > :54:55.album, The Hope Six Demolition We talked earlier this morning,
:54:56. > :54:59.and I asked her about the very strange background to this modern
:55:00. > :55:01.protest song. Working closely with the
:55:02. > :55:07.photographer Seamus Murphy, who had done a lot of travelling all his
:55:08. > :55:10.life as a photojournalist, I began to travel with him
:55:11. > :55:16.and the first country we went to was Kosovo,
:55:17. > :55:18.we also went to Afghanistan, and then we thought for a long time
:55:19. > :55:21.about what would be another country to visit before we felt we'd
:55:22. > :55:24.finished a project of an album and also a book, it became a book
:55:25. > :55:28.called The Hollow Of The Hand. We decided that Washington,
:55:29. > :55:30.DC felt like the right A lot of decisions were made
:55:31. > :55:48.there that affected Afghanistan, affected Kosovo, but it was also
:55:49. > :55:52.a nice place to go back and I, as a writer, was trying to look
:55:53. > :55:55.at the similarities I could find, of Washington, DC called Anacostia,
:55:56. > :56:10.which is south of the river was a very poor part, very rundown
:56:11. > :56:12.neighbourhood, and I talked to a lot of the people there,
:56:13. > :56:16.we spent about a week on the streets talking to people, listening
:56:17. > :56:19.to what they had to say, and I just collected notes as
:56:20. > :56:25.a journalist might. You talk about yourself now
:56:26. > :56:27.as a journalist as much Do the two go together for you,
:56:28. > :56:35.you are out there bringing Well, I still call myself
:56:36. > :56:38.a songwriter, really. My biggest drive
:56:39. > :56:46.in my life is to want to sing to people, that's the way
:56:47. > :56:49.I get across the things that interest me and the things
:56:50. > :56:51.that concern me. We're now going to hear
:56:52. > :56:53.a song from the album. Take it away, Polly,
:56:54. > :56:57.thanks very much. # Here's the Hope Six
:56:58. > :57:01.Demolition Project. # And here's the one
:57:02. > :57:15.sit-down restaurant. # Just zombies,
:57:16. > :57:24.but that's just life. # The community of hope,
:57:25. > :57:41.hope, hope, hope. # Here's the highway
:57:42. > :57:45.to death and destruction. # And the school just
:57:46. > :57:52.looks like a hole. # And here's God's
:57:53. > :58:06.deliverance centre. # The community of hope,
:58:07. > :58:25.hope, hope, hope. # They're gonna put
:58:26. > :58:56.a Walmart here #.