:00:08. > :00:12.Since the Brexit vote, it's not just the government that
:00:13. > :00:16.As to what happens next, the whole country has been
:00:17. > :00:22.Well, this week, with new official forecasts and the Autumn Statement
:00:23. > :00:24.on tax and spending, the picture should
:00:25. > :00:31.There's an old journalists' rule and it's a reliable one,
:00:32. > :00:49.if you're in doubt, follow the money.
:00:50. > :00:50.Ahead of that crucial statement, the Chancellor,
:00:51. > :00:59.Does he, as the papers report, face a new ?100 billion black hole
:01:00. > :01:02.and what's he going to do for the Jams - the just
:01:03. > :01:11.John McDonnell, his Labour Shadow, wants him to reverse
:01:12. > :01:15.ditch austerity and he proposes a ?500 billon investment boost.
:01:16. > :01:24.The legendary REM have just reissued one of their iconic albums.
:01:25. > :01:27.Michael Stipe's been telling me that one of the fans' favourite hits
:01:28. > :01:50.If there was one song that was sent into space to represent REM for all
:01:51. > :01:54.of time I would not want it to be that one.
:01:55. > :01:55.And some shiny happy people
:01:56. > :01:56.reviewing the papers on this
:01:57. > :01:59.important weekend: John Longworth, the Brexit supporting former boss
:02:00. > :02:01.of the British Chambers of Commerce, Carolyn Fairbairn, director general
:02:02. > :02:04.of the CBI and - a long time friend of the show,
:02:05. > :02:08.That's all after the news, read this morning by Christian Fraser.
:02:09. > :02:10.Thank you, Andrew, a very good morning.
:02:11. > :02:12.The Chancellor Philip Hammond is expected to announce an extra
:02:13. > :02:14.?1.3 billion for improving Britain's roads in
:02:15. > :02:17.It will be part of a bigger investment in infrastructure
:02:18. > :02:19.spending, designed to boost the economy.
:02:20. > :02:22.Much of the money is expected to be spent on reducing congestion,
:02:23. > :02:24.and there'll be extra funding for a planned "expressway" linking
:02:25. > :02:32.The first named storm of the winter, Storm Angus,
:02:33. > :02:35.has brought heavy rain and strong winds to the South of England
:02:36. > :02:38.The Environment Agency has issued more than 20 weather warnings,
:02:39. > :02:41.with winds of up to 80 miles an hour and flooding expected in some
:02:42. > :02:45.Drivers are advised to take care and delays are expected
:02:46. > :02:52.Donald Trump has met the former presidential candidate Mitt Romney,
:02:53. > :02:54.previously one of his fiercest critics in the Republican party.
:02:55. > :02:57.The two men held talks at Mr Trump's golf club in New Jersey.
:02:58. > :03:00.Mr Romney had called Mr Trump a "fraud" and a "con-man"
:03:01. > :03:05.He described his meeting with the President-elect
:03:06. > :03:13.At least 90 people have been killed and more than 100 injured after
:03:14. > :03:17.Fourteen carriages were involved in the incident in Uttar Pradesh.
:03:18. > :03:19.Rescue workers are continuing to search for survivors and
:03:20. > :03:25.French Conservatives are voting today
:03:26. > :03:27.in the first round of a race to choose their presidential
:03:28. > :03:30.The front runners are the former president,
:03:31. > :03:36.Nicolas Sarkozy, and the centrist politician, Alain Juppe.
:03:37. > :03:39.For the first time, registered supporters are choosing the nominee
:03:40. > :03:47.That's all from me. Back to you, Andrew.
:03:48. > :04:00.Lots of stories today, the Daily male is leading on the Duchess of
:04:01. > :04:06.York trying to get money from the Sting perpetrated by the fake
:04:07. > :04:10.sheikh, the express has dashed the Observer has a story about Europe's
:04:11. > :04:14.leaders trying to force the UK into a hard Grexit and there is a sense
:04:15. > :04:20.that the UK's options are narrowing because a lot of Tory MPs also say
:04:21. > :04:29.they should be a hard Brexit. The Sunday Times says that the Queen
:04:30. > :04:38.will invite President Trump to Windsor and a moving story about the
:04:39. > :04:42.writer AA Gill who has cancer and is getting married. Tony Blair says
:04:43. > :04:46.that Jeremy Corbyn is a nutter and says he is coming back. We will see
:04:47. > :04:52.how that goes. The Sunday Telegraph talks about tax raid on middle-class
:04:53. > :04:55.salary perks. It is previewing the Autumn Statement, Philip Hammond
:04:56. > :05:01.will talk about that. And that extraordinary picture of Ed Balls
:05:02. > :05:06.doing his thing in Blackpool, on Strictly Come Dancing, rather
:05:07. > :05:14.against my expectations he is the success and is doing things we had
:05:15. > :05:18.not seen before. John. My opener, the Chancellor writing in the Sun
:05:19. > :05:22.about his vision for the Autumn Statement and Dan Hodges riding on
:05:23. > :05:27.Philip Hammond and how that stacks up. I think the Chancellor is on the
:05:28. > :05:33.right track to begin with. -- writing an Philip Hammond. Talking
:05:34. > :05:49.about infrastructure developments, Dan Hodges says this is the death of
:05:50. > :05:53.Osbornomics. Of course Keynes said that when the facts changed he
:05:54. > :05:57.changed his mind and he was flexible and that is what we need to do, what
:05:58. > :06:01.Philip Hammond needs to do in the Autumn Statement. The overriding
:06:02. > :06:05.thing of these two articles is that one of the fringe benefits of Brexit
:06:06. > :06:08.is that it gives the UK the chance to create the best economy in the
:06:09. > :06:13.world and this is what the Chancellor needs to set out to do,
:06:14. > :06:18.not perhaps all in one go but in stages, creating the sort of
:06:19. > :06:24.economic background where we end up having the best economy in the
:06:25. > :06:30.world. But if he faces ?100 million black hole at the moment will this
:06:31. > :06:35.kind of investment be more than a row of beans? There does need to be
:06:36. > :06:41.some investment in infrastructure including wireless connectivity in
:06:42. > :06:46.the UK which is lamentable. But also we need to talk about investing in
:06:47. > :06:49.skills and training and in science and research and development and
:06:50. > :06:54.create increased productivity and all those things that will make the
:06:55. > :06:58.UK a great economy. But as I will come too late on the Brexit think
:06:59. > :07:04.there is a huge opportunity to crystallise the benefits of Brexit
:07:05. > :07:11.and do that will be a massive boost the economy. Carolyn, a view from
:07:12. > :07:15.the CBI, chosen stories from the Sunday Telegraph. Following on from
:07:16. > :07:18.what we might expect in the Autumn Statement, the Sunday Telegraph and
:07:19. > :07:25.the Sunday Times, about how this Autumn Statement will focus on the
:07:26. > :07:32.domestic economy, roads, schools, investment, committee areas John
:07:33. > :07:36.mentioned, a lot of nuts and bolts. Yes, within difficult fiscal
:07:37. > :07:40.environment yet the building blocks are being put in place to focus on a
:07:41. > :07:46.stronger economy for enterprise, I agree with John it is the right
:07:47. > :07:54.thing to do. What does the CBI feel about the dangers of Brexit, the
:07:55. > :07:58.dangers of a smooth transmission. The challenges of a cliff edge
:07:59. > :08:08.Brexit, the one minute past midnight challenge, it's around Customs
:08:09. > :08:11.officials, practical things, big box warehouses... And one thing that
:08:12. > :08:15.needs to be really understood is what that would feel like the
:08:16. > :08:22.businesses and challenges, were that cliff edge to happen. Should it
:08:23. > :08:27.happen or not we see politicians with their reputations bouncing back
:08:28. > :08:33.again, not least Mr Nigel Farage, we have a story about him and Trump.
:08:34. > :08:37.He's milking that moment. Yes, with that photo about him being the first
:08:38. > :08:41.person from Britain to go over and meet with Donald Trump, the Sunday
:08:42. > :08:47.express has the inside track on what they talked about, you might have
:08:48. > :08:52.thought it would be the economy, or Brexit but no, Donald Trump has
:08:53. > :09:00.declared war on Scottish wind farms. His golf course? Nigel Farage has
:09:01. > :09:04.urged Mr Trump to propose wind farm developments saying they are
:09:05. > :09:08.blighting the landscape, he probably means that they are blighting the
:09:09. > :09:12.view from his expensive golf course. Simon Walters of the male on Sunday
:09:13. > :09:17.has interviewed Nigel Farage, who says he wants to come back to the
:09:18. > :09:25.House of Commons if there is a by-election in Thanet. Does he mean
:09:26. > :09:32.that all is he being naughty? Multifactorial Peter Hitchens in the
:09:33. > :09:36.male on Sunday has a theory that this is not really Donald Trump, he
:09:37. > :09:42.sends a body double like Saddam Hussein. He says that it is not his
:09:43. > :09:44.face all his smile, his shirt is not right, so he thinks he just sent his
:09:45. > :09:48.hair! LAUGHTER
:09:49. > :09:56.This is a faked photograph them, very good. In the Sunday Telegraph,
:09:57. > :10:02.a big bunch of Tory MPs, former Cabinet ministers calling for a
:10:03. > :10:08.clean Brexit. Yes, it's an important story, Steve Baker MP is probably
:10:09. > :10:16.involved in this group, calling rightly for a clean Brexit. As the
:10:17. > :10:20.co-chair of Leave means Leave I support this and I'm very much of
:10:21. > :10:25.the view that as you said the beginning, the UK now has narrowing
:10:26. > :10:29.options in this respect. The continentals want us to leave
:10:30. > :10:35.cleanly, it will be in our interests to do that as soon as possible, we
:10:36. > :10:39.should trigger Article 50 early to crystallise the benefits of Brexit
:10:40. > :10:45.as soon as possible, including free trade, if we reduce tariff barriers
:10:46. > :10:52.and could reduce the dash improve the economy,... We should make it
:10:53. > :10:55.clear that if we try to stay in the customs union we cannot then do the
:10:56. > :11:00.free trade deals people might want in other parts of the world. A tough
:11:01. > :11:04.choice. You are in it or add and if you are out there is a cliff edge,
:11:05. > :11:10.no way of getting around that but you can to trade deals around the
:11:11. > :11:14.world. I think the choices are coming down to that. Businesses are
:11:15. > :11:19.going full steam ahead on getting the best Brexit and the
:11:20. > :11:22.opportunities in trade deals around the world, I was in China and India
:11:23. > :11:29.recently, there are real opportunities there although there
:11:30. > :11:33.is this thing of how you get there that does not create uncertainty
:11:34. > :11:41.around regulation and what happens at Borders. Is it important to talk
:11:42. > :11:45.it up because one IQ authority figures sounding pessimistic about
:11:46. > :11:49.it I think it will be a soft prophecy. Confidence is important
:11:50. > :11:53.for the economy, always and it can be a self fulfilling prophecy if you
:11:54. > :11:58.talked only economy as some business leaders are doing. It's important to
:11:59. > :12:02.look at the positives. They will be winners and losers in the business
:12:03. > :12:06.community, the economy as a whole will win, although the winners will
:12:07. > :12:09.be the ones who embrace a new and better future rather than hanging a
:12:10. > :12:18.poorer version of what we had before. Gets talked to somebody who
:12:19. > :12:23.is certainly embracing the positive. AA Gill with a double announcement.
:12:24. > :12:31.He is a friend and I am lunching with him on Wednesday if he does not
:12:32. > :12:34.cancel. AA Gill, if someone does not know, is the theatre critic and TV
:12:35. > :12:42.critic and restaurant critic on the Sunday Times. Former husband of a
:12:43. > :12:46.Home Secretary and severely dyslexic, which is interesting, he
:12:47. > :12:51.has written about it, I presumed that he dictates because he is one
:12:52. > :12:54.of the best writers around. Personally I think he is a genius
:12:55. > :12:58.and I do not use that would often. I asked if he was going to write about
:12:59. > :13:02.this, I thought about his cancer and I thought it would be the definitive
:13:03. > :13:12.article on having cancer. He is obviously going to write about it.
:13:13. > :13:18.He says that there is barely a morsel of offal not included in his
:13:19. > :13:21.cancer, he talks about its malignancy and calls it meaty and
:13:22. > :13:28.gimpy. This is what we can expect from him. It was found on the spine
:13:29. > :13:33.and in the lung but what I like most about it is that he is determined to
:13:34. > :13:38.go with the NHS because he says that there is a human connection in the
:13:39. > :13:42.NHS. He said, my father always said I don't want to die in the trenches
:13:43. > :13:47.and that he himself does not want to die in a change in Harley Street.
:13:48. > :13:53.Fairly good for him. The other huge story of the week is Ed Balls as it
:13:54. > :13:58.is every week. Again and again he cavorts ridiculously and the country
:13:59. > :14:03.goes wild. What's going on? I love this spread in the Telegraph because
:14:04. > :14:07.there's all this is serious stuff about Brexit and in the middle
:14:08. > :14:15.photograph of Ed Balls who danced his socks off last night. Not very
:14:16. > :14:19.well! That is the point of Strictly, it is the journey. It is brilliant
:14:20. > :14:27.light relief in the middle of serious news. Power to his elbow and
:14:28. > :14:32.his dancing shoes! On the theme of makeovers, you have the Sun. Ed
:14:33. > :14:37.Balls dances as well as I do! My wife will attest to that. The
:14:38. > :14:43.makeover, it is about how people project images onto the famous. I
:14:44. > :14:46.remember an interview with Margaret Thatcher in early days, repeated
:14:47. > :14:51.were apparently she never wore a twinset. And yet the twinset and
:14:52. > :15:01.pearls and had was how she was always represented. -- the twinset
:15:02. > :15:06.and pearls and a hat. It is about why it is important to identify
:15:07. > :15:10.their characters. Boris has had his haircut recently I believe at Harvey
:15:11. > :15:15.Nichols and he is looking very smart. He still does not think every
:15:16. > :15:17.time. Despite what everyone thinks they are real people. The final
:15:18. > :15:30.about Japan. According to research by the
:15:31. > :15:33.Japanese government 30% of single women and 15% of single men are
:15:34. > :15:40.falling in love with virtual characters in the game, memes, half
:15:41. > :15:45.the number of people who fall in love with a pop star, and there are
:15:46. > :15:49.hotels they can go to and the subculture to go to with their meme
:15:50. > :15:53.console partner for a romantic break. It is worrying, when I see
:15:54. > :15:56.people in restaurants both on their phones, not talking to each other
:15:57. > :16:07.but talking to other people and it is worrying. Is it you, Andrew, or
:16:08. > :16:08.are you a cyberbot. As long as I am attached to the mains electricity
:16:09. > :16:09.I'm fine. Overnight Storm Angus has been
:16:10. > :16:13.drenching and battering most Freezing fog is in the North
:16:14. > :16:17.and there's snow on the hills. Helen Willetts is in
:16:18. > :16:26.the BBC weather centre. It has been an interesting morning,
:16:27. > :16:30.wild weather around, Storm Angus is starting to blow out but there are
:16:31. > :16:34.warnings for another hour or two, the ample warning of damaging winds
:16:35. > :16:38.from the Met office but as you mentioned it has been a triple
:16:39. > :16:42.whammy with the rain as well. Still an hour or two with strong winds,
:16:43. > :16:48.severe gales in the South and East and the Isle of Wight, Kent and
:16:49. > :16:56.Essex. The heaviest rain is across East Anglia moving towards
:16:57. > :17:00.Lincolnshire. This is County Tyrone, the opposite in Scotland and
:17:01. > :17:03.Northern Ireland where it is winter, temperature is the lowest they have
:17:04. > :17:07.been so far this season, freezing cold mailing whereas Angus moves
:17:08. > :17:10.into the North Sea and things quietened down dramatically for
:17:11. > :17:14.England and Wales, but it will be cold in the north and where the
:17:15. > :17:17.freezing fog lingers. We can only breathe a brief sigh of relief
:17:18. > :17:22.before the next area of low pressure starts bringing more rain into
:17:23. > :17:24.similar areas across southern England, Wales, overnight, and
:17:25. > :17:28.marching northwards through the Midlands and East Anglia. Another 30
:17:29. > :17:33.millimetres of rain, similar to what we have seen already overnight on
:17:34. > :17:36.saturated ground, and it will turn readily into snow over the hills,
:17:37. > :17:40.and I and foggy problems further north. In rush hour tomorrow with
:17:41. > :17:45.freezing fog in the north and the ice and driving rain on the winds
:17:46. > :17:49.and hill snow it looks nasty and there could be further flood issues
:17:50. > :17:53.from the rain, this is the flood warning line. Stay tuned to the
:17:54. > :17:57.forecast if you have plans, particularly tomorrow morning.
:17:58. > :17:59.Andrew. Keep glued to the forecast.
:18:00. > :18:01.Now I'm joined by one of the Queen's Privy Councillors.
:18:02. > :18:03.The former republican firebrand and now Shadow
:18:04. > :18:13.Congratulations, Mr McDonnell. The Right Honourable John McDonnell.
:18:14. > :18:17.Congratulations. You have backed the spending of 360 million on
:18:18. > :18:21.Buckingham Palace. Is that really write? Is it correct how wealthy the
:18:22. > :18:27.Royal family are the taxpayer is picking up the bill at this
:18:28. > :18:30.difficult time? It is a public building, public monument, it is a
:18:31. > :18:35.heritage building and we have to invest in it to preserve it. If the
:18:36. > :18:39.Queen or Royal family considered a contribution I would not send the
:18:40. > :18:43.cheque back. It does show, though, that when we need the money for
:18:44. > :18:46.buildings and maintenance we can afford it so we should be building
:18:47. > :18:52.homes and tackling maintenance problems ordinary people have got as
:18:53. > :18:55.well. Can I just say this as well... Given the wealth involved, should
:18:56. > :18:59.they be paying for this? That is for them to consider, it would be
:19:00. > :19:02.welcomed. I would say this gently as well, if it is a public building it
:19:03. > :19:06.would be a nice touch if it was opened up to the public free of
:19:07. > :19:11.charge a bit more as well. Very interesting. Let me turn to the big
:19:12. > :19:14.picture. You've talked about fiscal credibility plan, your party is way
:19:15. > :19:20.behind the Tories in terms of public trust on the economy so you need
:19:21. > :19:23.public credibility. Explain the fiscal credibility plan. We have
:19:24. > :19:27.been behind the fiscal credibility ever since the crash in 2008 and it
:19:28. > :19:31.hasn't changed since then so we have to build up our credibility. What we
:19:32. > :19:33.have said is the existing fiscal framework the government has used
:19:34. > :19:36.has failed and they know that, it has been six wasted years, the
:19:37. > :19:43.deficit was supposed to be limited last year and it is now 45 billion
:19:44. > :19:47.and that is 1.7 trillion, they've added 750 billion to the deficit
:19:48. > :19:52.virtually. We need a fiscal credibility rule that says, yes, you
:19:53. > :19:56.bring down the deficit on a rolling five-year programme. Balance the
:19:57. > :20:00.books over five years? Yes, in other words you spend what you earn, but
:20:01. > :20:03.in addition you make sure the debt is coming down. But the most
:20:04. > :20:07.important thing is you do not stop investment. What I've been worried
:20:08. > :20:10.about is that over that long seven-year period our investment has
:20:11. > :20:14.actually stagnated so we have a productivity crisis, stagnating
:20:15. > :20:25.again, meaning we are not earning Karawe. We are talking about ?500
:20:26. > :20:31.billion? Let me explain that. -- not earning our way. It is compatible to
:20:32. > :20:37.the 1990s. 500 billion over a 10-year period, 250 billion from
:20:38. > :20:41.mainstream programmes, so investing, infrastructure, roads, rail, new
:20:42. > :20:45.technology, decarbonising our economy. But then we want to set up
:20:46. > :20:49.a national investment bank. This is what happens in Europe. You put
:20:50. > :20:53.money into that and it levers 250 billion from the private sector. So
:20:54. > :20:57.at what point do we get the money back because of economic growth?
:20:58. > :21:01.Economic growth, I think, would come fairly rapidly because there has
:21:02. > :21:04.been... Let me give the example of what has happened under the existing
:21:05. > :21:07.government. We have had an infrastructure pipeline and only one
:21:08. > :21:13.in five projects is meeting construction targets. We have had 35
:21:14. > :21:18.billion identified by George Osborne ready to go, shovel ready projects
:21:19. > :21:21.that would grow the economy. Also remember, Andrew, our borrowing
:21:22. > :21:25.costs are at the lowest in a generation. People say it is the
:21:26. > :21:29.time to borrow money. Nevertheless, what rate of economic growth would
:21:30. > :21:32.you need for this gamble to work? It is a gamble because you do not know
:21:33. > :21:39.you will get the growth. What extra level of growth would you need? My
:21:40. > :21:43.view is 1% or 2% extra growth and we would really be burning and really
:21:44. > :21:47.buzzing, and in that way this is about investment infrastructure. But
:21:48. > :21:51.it is also investment in people as well. 2% extra growth beyond what we
:21:52. > :21:56.would normally get, is that what you're looking for? 1% or 2% is
:21:57. > :22:01.achievable. That would bring money back to the taxpayer in what period?
:22:02. > :22:04.Remember it is a ten year programme, remember we are at the lowest rate
:22:05. > :22:07.of borrowing in a generation and that would give us the opportunity
:22:08. > :22:12.to actually modernise our economy and become competitive in the world
:22:13. > :22:16.against. We have slipped down the league table. Payback in ten years
:22:17. > :22:22.with 2% extra that's interesting. Let me ask you about this, Keynes,
:22:23. > :22:27.when the facts change I change my mind, what, sir, do you do? If we
:22:28. > :22:31.get high inflation, seeming likely with where the pound is, and if we
:22:32. > :22:35.face a ?100 billion Brexit black hole as the papers say, would that
:22:36. > :22:39.change your thoughts, would you borrow less or more? I am not sure
:22:40. > :22:42.if the 100 billion is accurate, we are told it might come down when we
:22:43. > :22:50.get the reports in the next few days. This is the time to invest to
:22:51. > :22:52.grow the economy. You cannot put it off, the government has put it off
:22:53. > :22:56.for six years. What happens if interest rates go up? The interest
:22:57. > :23:00.rate increases the cost of borrowing and you would build that into
:23:01. > :23:03.whatever cost, borrowing you took up. I'm on the same page as the CBI,
:23:04. > :23:09.the Chamber of Commerce, as virtually every economic metric.
:23:10. > :23:13.Moving on to the current account, you said you want an end to
:23:14. > :23:19.austerity, do you mean reversing the government's welfare cuts? Let me
:23:20. > :23:22.explain this very clearly. Where we are at at the moment is, I think
:23:23. > :23:26.people recognise that we have an unfair tax system where we have had
:23:27. > :23:31.tax giveaways to the wealthy and corporations, tax evasion and tax
:23:32. > :23:35.avoidance. Will you change it to a fairer tax? Yes, we would hold the
:23:36. > :23:40.tax cuts to the rich and corporations and reverse some of
:23:41. > :23:43.them. We would seriously tackle tax evasion and tax avoidance. In that
:23:44. > :23:47.way we would have the resources to invest in our public services. The
:23:48. > :23:50.issue around being competitive isn't just about physical infrastructure,
:23:51. > :23:55.it is investing in people as well. Our schools budgets are going
:23:56. > :23:59.through cuts we have not seen since the 1970s. That is a short-term cut
:24:00. > :24:06.for a long-term failure. Let me ask about the cuts, you said you would
:24:07. > :24:11.reverse the welfare cuts, around ?12.5 billion, ?13 billion. Let's
:24:12. > :24:14.look at the figure. That is what the government quotes. Let's look at
:24:15. > :24:17.what we are talking about, Universal Credit, we hope the government will
:24:18. > :24:24.reverse that, in the first stage of our reversal of austerity, ?30 a
:24:25. > :24:27.week cut to disabled people desperately seeking work would be
:24:28. > :24:30.reversed, that would be the first stage and I hope the government does
:24:31. > :24:33.that on Wednesday and if they don't we will. What about the cuts to
:24:34. > :24:39.unprotected government departments in local communities and so forth?
:24:40. > :24:42.Will you reverse those? We will try and invest back in local government
:24:43. > :24:46.as we grow the economy and that means investing around the country.
:24:47. > :24:51.At the moment there is investment in the London and the south-east and
:24:52. > :24:55.that is why the investment bank will be a regional bank. On the current
:24:56. > :25:00.account we have a ?70 billion deficit roughly speaking and if you
:25:01. > :25:04.add to it somewhere between 15 and ?20 billion of reversed cuts you are
:25:05. > :25:09.talking something like 80- ?90 billion that you have to fill,
:25:10. > :25:13.either through growth or tax rises. Simply dealing with it by putting in
:25:14. > :25:19.more tax inspectors will not plug the gap, nobody thinks that. No. You
:25:20. > :25:22.have to raise proper, real taxes. If you had a fair taxation system and
:25:23. > :25:26.were not giving the tax giveaways to corporations and the rich, if you
:25:27. > :25:31.seriously tackle tax evasion and avoidance, and grew the economy, we
:25:32. > :25:35.would be able to afford our public services. What about raising the
:25:36. > :25:38.threshold on the 40p rate? In favour or against that? It looks as if the
:25:39. > :25:43.threshold will be increased on Wednesday by the government and we
:25:44. > :25:48.would support that. We would support that. That is a tax giveaway in a
:25:49. > :25:52.sense. Some of the people need a tax giveaway at the moment because of
:25:53. > :25:54.the mismanagement of the economy by the Conservatives, it is hitting
:25:55. > :26:01.them hard. But we need a long-term strategy. This Autumn Statement we
:26:02. > :26:03.are going back to giveaways and gimmicks again, a lot of the
:26:04. > :26:05.infrastructure I've heard the government is supposed to be
:26:06. > :26:10.announcing, we've already had the press releases. It was said in the
:26:11. > :26:17.papers that Philip Hammond is reversing Osborne -omics and they
:26:18. > :26:21.are ditching austerity and going back to investment. Do you accept
:26:22. > :26:24.that, or are they just not doing enough? Loss of this will be
:26:25. > :26:28.gimmicks and press releases all over again, as I've said, in the pipeline
:26:29. > :26:32.with only seen one in five delivered to construction. A lot of this will
:26:33. > :26:35.be repeats of what we are seeing already. Some of the issues around
:26:36. > :26:39.infrastructure like research and development is simpler replacing the
:26:40. > :26:47.cuts that they have made over recent years. It is a change in direction
:26:48. > :26:49.nevertheless. It is a minor change in direction when this Autumn
:26:50. > :26:51.Statement should be a significant reversal of existing economic
:26:52. > :26:55.strategy. We can put this to him in the sofa chat later on. Let me ask
:26:56. > :26:59.about Brexit because as I understand it Labour's position is the version
:27:00. > :27:01.of the Brexit Theresa May is going for which doesn't necessarily
:27:02. > :27:05.protect workers' rights and wouldn't give full access to the Single
:27:06. > :27:09.Market would be disastrous for this country. I oppose the Tori high
:27:10. > :27:14.Brexit they are putting forward. And yet you are telling Labour MPs to
:27:15. > :27:19.vote for Article 50, which suggests there is the cliff edge, let's go
:27:20. > :27:23.towards it even more. Not at all. A referendum has taken place and we
:27:24. > :27:27.must respect that decision, I voted the campaign for Remain and we lost,
:27:28. > :27:31.we have to respect that decision. We don't want to be accused by not
:27:32. > :27:36.voting for article 52 try and somehow overturned a referendum but
:27:37. > :27:42.the serious negotiations will start taking this afterwards. Do you want
:27:43. > :27:47.the chance to amend the government's plans? We have got to. How do you do
:27:48. > :27:51.that? We campaign in the country, make sure we form coalitions across
:27:52. > :27:56.the House of Commons, and we get serious negotiations going. The
:27:57. > :28:00.House of Commons is the only way? As we move into the negotiations we are
:28:01. > :28:03.demanding the government comes back and is held to account and held to
:28:04. > :28:06.account in Parliament and to the country overall about the promises
:28:07. > :28:09.they make in that period. Would just need to know where the government
:28:10. > :28:13.wants to go and how it will get there. We have a view that eight
:28:14. > :28:21.Tory high Brexit would damage our economy and we have two sees
:28:22. > :28:27.opportunities to create a new relationships with Europe and with
:28:28. > :28:30.the social Democrats across Europe to create any relationship that
:28:31. > :28:34.tackle some of the problems that voted for people to vote for the
:28:35. > :28:36.referendum. We will talk about this later but thank you for now, John
:28:37. > :28:38.McDonnell. It's 25 years since REM released
:28:39. > :28:41.that great album, Out of Time. It made this most political
:28:42. > :28:44.of American bands into a global phenomenon which lasted
:28:45. > :28:46.until their friendly split in 2011. They've just released a special
:28:47. > :28:50.Anniversary Edition of Out of Time. It includes a remastered version
:28:51. > :28:56.of the album, and much more. REM's vocalist Michael Stipe,
:28:57. > :28:58.now sporting a massively impressive beard, and bassist
:28:59. > :29:01.Mike Mills joined me earlier. It's a proper length of time
:29:02. > :29:15.for technology to change enough to where you remaster
:29:16. > :29:18.it, you can actually make it sound, maybe not better
:29:19. > :29:21.but certainly a little clearer to hear things you couldn't hear
:29:22. > :29:24.the first time. It's certainly enough time for us
:29:25. > :29:27.to be OK with looking back at something we've done, which is not
:29:28. > :29:29.normally how REM operates. How would you define the REM sound
:29:30. > :29:47.because it is distinctive? Well, clearly for many years
:29:48. > :29:51.it was dominated by the sound of Peter's guitar
:29:52. > :29:54.because he played in He didn't play block chords,
:29:55. > :29:59.he played arpeggios, And then, of course, Michael's voice
:30:00. > :30:07.with was the signature sound of REM. And then, of course, Michael's voice
:30:08. > :30:09.was the signature sound of REM. So Michael's voice was the thread
:30:10. > :30:12.that carried through, through whatever other changes
:30:13. > :30:13.we went through. But at this point we decided
:30:14. > :30:16.to change the guitar sound I started playing more
:30:17. > :30:19.keyboards than bass, Bill Berry started playing things
:30:20. > :30:21.other than just a drum kit. We just shook things up
:30:22. > :30:24.as much as we could. and absolutely loving it at the
:30:25. > :30:27.time. But like a lot of people,
:30:28. > :30:30.I didn't really understand it. Can we talk about a
:30:31. > :30:32.couple of the songs? Losing My Religion is not
:30:33. > :30:34.about becoming an atheist. So what does losing my
:30:35. > :30:37.religion actually mean? It's a southern term that means that
:30:38. > :30:40.something has pushed you to the point where you're
:30:41. > :30:42.questioning your faith. And it's used quite casually in
:30:43. > :30:44.the south. It's not
:30:45. > :30:48.something that would actually question your faith, it just means
:30:49. > :30:51.that it rained and you got your hair wet, or the lunch you ordered
:30:52. > :30:54.wasn't as good as you So essentially you're just
:30:55. > :30:56.losing it? Now, it's famously
:30:57. > :31:02.said, I think by both of you, in the past,
:31:03. > :31:03.that you really dislike one song on this
:31:04. > :31:06.album, Shiny Happy People. Very, very weird for people
:31:07. > :31:09.to have a hugely successful hit and then say, "Do you know what,
:31:10. > :31:12.we don't like that song." But it's a fruity pop song
:31:13. > :31:17.written for children. that was sent into outer space
:31:18. > :31:28.to represent REM for the rest
:31:29. > :31:31.of time I would not want it Mike Mills, you said recently that
:31:32. > :31:51.you were watching U2 in a big stadium event
:31:52. > :31:54.and thought, do you know what, I could be up there,
:31:55. > :31:56.I could be doing that. And then you thought, nah,
:31:57. > :31:59.I don't want to do it. You know, for the first two
:32:00. > :32:01.or three songs I really missed it and I said,
:32:02. > :32:05.because I know how much fun that is, and I was thinking I could
:32:06. > :32:07.still be doing that. And after about three or four songs
:32:08. > :32:10.I started thinking about, they've got another six
:32:11. > :32:13.months of this and I get to go home and read
:32:14. > :32:24.And I realised that we broke up at the right time
:32:25. > :32:28.for the right reasons, and what little I'd missed
:32:29. > :32:30.if it was not nearly enough to overcome the
:32:31. > :32:39.I must ask you, are you haunted by the
:32:40. > :32:44.albums that you haven't made over the last five years, the songs that
:32:45. > :32:49.Do you think, we could have been doing this?
:32:50. > :32:51.I'm haunted by the albums that we did make!
:32:52. > :32:53.CHUCKLES In capping the band with our last
:32:54. > :32:56.day and the way that we made that announcement, I wanted to preserve
:32:57. > :33:00.the legacy of what we had created and spent 32 years of our lives
:33:01. > :33:04.I did not wanted to drag down into us in our mid-50s going on
:33:05. > :33:06.tour, becoming something other than what we were.
:33:07. > :33:12.You always wanted your songs to have a meaning beyond
:33:13. > :33:19.Just tell us a little bit about the politics surrounding
:33:20. > :33:23.The moment itself, we were looking, if you look at all the
:33:24. > :33:25.things that were going on here and in the US
:33:26. > :33:27.in 1990 and 1991, it was
:33:28. > :33:29.the end of Reagan and Bush, the end of Thatcher,
:33:30. > :33:31.it was the end of Aids as a death sentence.
:33:32. > :33:33.We were now discovering medicines that could
:33:34. > :33:47.And I think as artists, as creative people, we instinctually
:33:48. > :33:51.were responding to a change and trying to address it in the way that
:33:52. > :33:52.we approached the making of this record.
:33:53. > :33:56.And there is certainly a lot of change in the air right now.
:33:57. > :33:57.What was your reaction to the Trump victory?
:33:58. > :33:59.You weren't Hillary supporters either of you, were
:34:00. > :34:04.I was also a Bernie Sanders supporter.
:34:05. > :34:05.I campaigned hard with Bernie Sanders.
:34:06. > :34:08.I support and stand by what he said in the New
:34:09. > :34:13.He did an op-ed saying that if this administration is going to work for
:34:14. > :34:16.the working class of America then he stands behind them 100%.
:34:17. > :34:18.If they're going to present even a shred of
:34:19. > :34:20.intolerance, whether it be towards women, Muslims
:34:21. > :34:22.or homosexuals, anyone, then he will stand in their
:34:23. > :34:25.This was not a vote for racists or misogynists
:34:26. > :34:27.or sexists, or people of intolerance.
:34:28. > :34:38.It was a vote against the establishment.
:34:39. > :34:40.And Donald Trump just happened to be in that
:34:41. > :34:46.People were voting in a protest and Donald Trump was
:34:47. > :34:50.Almost all of Hollywood, most of the major rock
:34:51. > :34:54.stars that we hear about, were with the anti-Trump candidates of one
:34:55. > :34:56.kind or another, and America turned her back on,
:34:57. > :35:01.Do you think there is a moment for people who are culturally powerful
:35:02. > :35:04.to say, do you know what, our involvement in politics has not
:35:05. > :35:12.That's a possibility, but when people, I'm on
:35:13. > :35:14.Twitter, and when people come at me with that,
:35:15. > :35:20.should be involved in politics, truck drivers, dentists, housewives,
:35:21. > :35:23.anyone at all, whatever your job, you should be
:35:24. > :35:26.If we happen to be pop stars with a bit
:35:27. > :35:29.more of a platform than others I don't think that should in any way
:35:30. > :35:35.I have an opinion, I have a platform, I'm on TV.
:35:36. > :35:37.Truck drivers aren't on TV talking to you about
:35:38. > :35:41.If you disagree with my opinion, fine, if it makes you not
:35:42. > :35:45.But I'm a person who, I'm an American, I'm
:35:46. > :35:52.New Yorker, I'm kind of frankly horrified by the past couple of
:35:53. > :35:58.And so if I feel the need or the desire to
:35:59. > :36:01.express that opinion I don't think anyone should tell me that I can't
:36:02. > :36:04.Michael Mills, Michael Stipe, it's been great talking to
:36:05. > :36:12.After the budget, the Autumn Statement is the most important
:36:13. > :36:16.We'll get the first proper official forecasts about the economy
:36:17. > :36:20.since the Brexit vote, and the Chancellor,
:36:21. > :36:22.Philip Hammond, gets to respond to the Prime Minister's promise
:36:23. > :36:25.that the Jams - the just about managing people -
:36:26. > :36:33.on low incomes will be the new government's top priority.
:36:34. > :36:41.Philip Hammond, welcome, can I ask you how you define the Jams? They
:36:42. > :36:45.are people who work hard and by and large do not feel they are sharing
:36:46. > :36:50.in the prosperity that economic growth is bringing to the country.
:36:51. > :36:54.We have to make sure that the prosperity that comes from seizing
:36:55. > :36:59.opportunities ahead is shared across the country, and across the income
:37:00. > :37:07.distribution. In terms of income they could be between ?20,000 a year
:37:08. > :37:19.to ?36,000 a year? I don't think it is about
:37:20. > :37:22.income, it is about the way people manage their lives, people who feel
:37:23. > :37:24.the system is not supporting them enough, not working for them. When
:37:25. > :37:28.Theresa May became Prime Minister she, as it were, looked these people
:37:29. > :37:31.in the eye and said, you will be my top priority. You agree? Absolutely
:37:32. > :37:35.right, and what we've done in the past few years, creating millions of
:37:36. > :37:38.new jobs is a good start because for these people the most important
:37:39. > :37:42.thing they have is a secure job. And making sure that those jobs remain
:37:43. > :37:48.secure as a key priority as we go forward. I know you can't go into
:37:49. > :37:52.details about the Autumn Statement but whatever you do you cannot make
:37:53. > :37:56.those people worse off now. Not after what you've said. We don't
:37:57. > :37:59.want to make anyone worse off, we want to secure the gains we have
:38:00. > :38:03.made in the last years and recognise that in the next couple of years we
:38:04. > :38:07.will face uncertainty of the economy but then we will have a raft of
:38:08. > :38:13.opportunities and we need to get the country ready to seize those. So you
:38:14. > :38:17.know where I am going, the only conclusion we can draw is that you
:38:18. > :38:21.need to reverse the cuts you've made to universal welfare support or if
:38:22. > :38:25.you don't these people will be hundreds of pounds worse off. I
:38:26. > :38:30.won't go into details of the Autumn Statement I'm going to make on
:38:31. > :38:35.Wednesday but you've seen the forecasts, the range of independent
:38:36. > :38:41.forecasts. We'll get the OP are forecast on Wednesday. And many of
:38:42. > :38:48.those pointed to a slowing of economic growth next year. And a
:38:49. > :38:52.sharp challenge for the public finances, there are a range of
:38:53. > :38:58.reasons for that, and we have to make sure that what we do is
:38:59. > :39:02.responsible, that everything we do is compatible with building
:39:03. > :39:07.resilience in our economy as we go into a period where they will be
:39:08. > :39:14.some uncertainty over some negotiation of our exit from the EU
:39:15. > :39:20.and make sure that the economy is fit for the opportunities and
:39:21. > :39:23.challenges ahead. You could be turning to those Jams and making
:39:24. > :39:30.them worse off by sticking with George Osborne's benefit cuts. We
:39:31. > :39:33.need to maintain our credibility, we have an eye watering a large debt
:39:34. > :39:37.and still have a significant deficit in this country and we have to
:39:38. > :39:42.prepare the economy for the period that lies ahead. I want to make sure
:39:43. > :39:46.that the economy is watertight, that we have enough head room to deal
:39:47. > :39:50.with any unexpected challenges over the next couple of years and most
:39:51. > :39:56.importantly that we are ready to seize the opportunities of leaving
:39:57. > :39:59.the European Union. That means improving the productivity of our
:40:00. > :40:05.economy so that we can compete in the world. There's an eye watering
:40:06. > :40:09.the large figure of ?100 billion as a putative deficit as a result of
:40:10. > :40:13.Brexit, much discussed in the papers. Do you recognise that
:40:14. > :40:19.figure, is there a big deficit Black hole that you as Chancellor facing?
:40:20. > :40:22.I read the forecasts by independent forecasters. The one I have to
:40:23. > :40:26.respond to on Wednesday is the definitive one that will be produced
:40:27. > :40:29.by the Office for Budget Responsibility and until we see that
:40:30. > :40:35.I can't comment on how I will respond to it. Have you had
:40:36. > :40:38.conversations with the OBR? It is a strange situation, they have to
:40:39. > :40:42.forecast what happens to the British economy over five years which means
:40:43. > :40:45.after Brexit. So on what basis can they make a forecast given that the
:40:46. > :40:51.government doesn't know how you would deal with it? This is why
:40:52. > :40:55.there is a larger than usual degree of uncertainty over the economy for
:40:56. > :41:00.the coming years and it will be for the OBR to explain in their report
:41:01. > :41:03.how they have dealt with that higher degree of uncertainty. But of course
:41:04. > :41:11.we do not know exactly where we will end up at the end of that period of
:41:12. > :41:13.negotiation. Isn't it an almost meaningless process? If you have not
:41:14. > :41:17.given them specific information about what you intend to do than
:41:18. > :41:21.they are making the same kind of gas that anyone watching this programme
:41:22. > :41:25.could make. So there is no particular reason to think that
:41:26. > :41:31.their ?100 billion black hole is real or anything else. It isn't
:41:32. > :41:36.about us giving them information, we will be entering negotiations with
:41:37. > :41:40.our EU partners about the terms of our future relationship with them.
:41:41. > :41:45.It isn't about the government's view of the outcome, it is about where
:41:46. > :41:49.those negotiations end up after a couple of years of hard fought
:41:50. > :41:53.negotiation. We will get the very best possible deal that we can for
:41:54. > :41:58.Britain but the OBR will have to make its own judgment about where we
:41:59. > :42:05.are likely to end up and how it will affect the economy. I want to keep
:42:06. > :42:11.things simple but basically the choice between leaving the EU
:42:12. > :42:16.Brittany and staying inside the EU there's very little middle ground,
:42:17. > :42:20.the European leaders are being tough in what they say, but if you want to
:42:21. > :42:25.stay in the customs union and the free market you have to accept
:42:26. > :42:29.things, like it or lump it, and Tory backbenchers are ganging up to the
:42:30. > :42:33.same kind of outcome. The sense that there's a middle way of being inside
:42:34. > :42:40.the EU or outside seems have vanished. I don't accept that sense.
:42:41. > :42:48.What we are seeing in Europe is a disciplined approach to their
:42:49. > :42:57.opening position. We have explained repeatedly and I do understand the
:42:58. > :43:04.frustration about what we're thinking of doing, how we to conduct
:43:05. > :43:08.the discussions, the Europeans are very disciplined and keeping cards
:43:09. > :43:10.close to their chest to maximise their negotiation advantage and I
:43:11. > :43:19.want to make sure that Theresa May goes into these negotiations with
:43:20. > :43:23.all the cards in hand, with maximum negotiating flexibility so that she
:43:24. > :43:33.can play her hand to the maximum benefit of Britain. Those who urge
:43:34. > :43:39.us to reveal our tactics will undermine this. Yet we need to know
:43:40. > :43:43.where we are going as a country. Not if we leave, when we leave the EU,
:43:44. > :43:48.is it important that we set up our own trade deals around the world
:43:49. > :43:51.with America and Australia and other countries? Of course we will have
:43:52. > :43:55.new opportunities when we leave the European Union, and over the course
:43:56. > :44:02.of the negotiation we will discuss various options, various
:44:03. > :44:08.combinations of outcomes. Surely we will be able to have our own deal?
:44:09. > :44:13.Our key issue is to get the past Wood best possible deal for the UK,
:44:14. > :44:17.reddish companies, British businesses and we need to get
:44:18. > :44:22.maximum flexibility, we need to approach these negotiations with an
:44:23. > :44:27.open mind yet a single clear objective, getting the best for
:44:28. > :44:32.Britain and the British people. Yet this suggests that after Brexit we
:44:33. > :44:35.might not be able to do our own free deals with other countries because
:44:36. > :44:39.if we stay in the customs union we can't do that so maybe Boris was
:44:40. > :44:45.right when he said that we probably would leave the customs union. I
:44:46. > :44:48.simply do not think it's helpful us to go into a negotiation having
:44:49. > :44:57.unilaterally declared certain things we will or will not do. I think we
:44:58. > :45:00.should go in there with one single clear objective, we are leaving the
:45:01. > :45:01.EU. The terms of our future relationship with the European
:45:02. > :45:06.Union, our future relationship with the rest of the world, on the table
:45:07. > :45:09.and we should be prepared to discuss all these things with the clear
:45:10. > :45:12.objective of getting the best possible deal for Britain, to
:45:13. > :45:17.protect the British economy and protect the living standards of the
:45:18. > :45:22.British people. You yourself said the only honest alternative to the
:45:23. > :45:28.EU was WTO rules, does Philip Hammond still with Philip Hammond?
:45:29. > :45:35.They are the straightforward default options if we were to leave the
:45:36. > :45:40.European Union without any agreement with our neighbours in Europe about
:45:41. > :45:43.access to their market and access to our market. Both sides have huge
:45:44. > :45:49.things in this game, we trade huge amounts with each other and I'm
:45:50. > :45:52.confident we will reach agreement with our European partners that
:45:53. > :45:59.ensures our companies will continue to trade in and have access to
:46:00. > :46:02.European marketplaces. And yet that cannot happen unless we compromise
:46:03. > :46:06.on free movement. Every single European leader has said that. The
:46:07. > :46:09.Mane charge of the negotiations has said that there is no reason to
:46:10. > :46:15.think they are bluffing about this. Well, as I said earlier I think the
:46:16. > :46:20.Europeans are being commendably disciplined in the line they take,
:46:21. > :46:22.that this will be a negotiation. We will have our opening positions,
:46:23. > :46:27.they will have their opening positions, it will be a long and
:46:28. > :46:30.hard fought negotiation but I'm sure, because logic dictates that we
:46:31. > :46:37.will, that we will eventually come to an agreement that works both for
:46:38. > :46:41.us and our European neighbours. This is not really about the government
:46:42. > :46:46.hiding its hand from the Europeans, is about the government hiding its
:46:47. > :46:49.hand from the House of Commons because the government, cabinet and
:46:50. > :46:53.Conservative Party are deeply split between the high Brexit people who
:46:54. > :46:56.want WTO rules and get out and that's it and people like yourself
:46:57. > :47:00.who would like to negotiate something in between current
:47:01. > :47:03.membership of the EU and simply relying on the WTO rules and that
:47:04. > :47:06.split cannot be allowed to be seen visibly in the House of Commons
:47:07. > :47:12.because your party will fall to pieces. I think you would be
:47:13. > :47:15.surprised to the degree to which the Cabinet is coming around to the view
:47:16. > :47:19.of the challenges and opportunities we will have as we move this debate
:47:20. > :47:22.forward but doing a huge amount of work. David Davis's department, Liam
:47:23. > :47:29.Fox's department, we work closely together. Some of the message we
:47:30. > :47:32.hear from people who haven't gone into these issues in such great
:47:33. > :47:38.depth frankly belies the complexity of this issue. We all want the same
:47:39. > :47:43.thing, we want to get the best deal we can get. The best deal, I am
:47:44. > :47:46.hearing this, I get it. How important is it? You see the money
:47:47. > :47:49.coming in, how important is it to this country that we retain the
:47:50. > :47:54.banking sector in more or less the same state as it is at the moment in
:47:55. > :48:01.London? Financial services is a very important sector of the UK economy.
:48:02. > :48:08.A significant proportion of Britain's financial services
:48:09. > :48:13.industry is generated through trade with the European Union. By the way,
:48:14. > :48:15.the City of London provides a vital resource to businesses,
:48:16. > :48:21.manufacturers and farmers across the European Union. Absolutely.
:48:22. > :48:26.Maintaining that access will be very important to us and it will be a key
:48:27. > :48:33.demand in our negotiations. A key demand. And right now finance
:48:34. > :48:37.ministers in France and Germany are making moves to lure people to
:48:38. > :48:40.Frankfurt and Paris and we cannot give any real assurance whatsoever
:48:41. > :48:44.to the banks based in Britain about passporting writes. Is there
:48:45. > :48:49.anything more you can say to make them stay? I talk to major banks and
:48:50. > :48:56.financial institutions in London on a regular basis and of course we
:48:57. > :49:01.provide them with reassurance and also the fact we will argue strongly
:49:02. > :49:04.for maximum access for financial services during these negotiations.
:49:05. > :49:06.This will be a long process and part of this process will be about the
:49:07. > :49:12.Europeans themselves thinking very carefully about what they want
:49:13. > :49:15.because some of what I'm hearing from European politicians I
:49:16. > :49:19.understand in terms of political rhetoric, but doesn't make a lot of
:49:20. > :49:24.sense in terms of... You still think they are bluffing? It is not a
:49:25. > :49:27.question of bluffing, it is a question of understanding the
:49:28. > :49:30.challenge of hosting a very large banking sector, for example,
:49:31. > :49:35.understanding the value that this deep and complex ecosystem of
:49:36. > :49:38.financial and professional services in London delivers to the whole of
:49:39. > :49:43.the European Union, and working with them to find a way that works for
:49:44. > :49:46.both of us. It has to work for Britain and the European Union,
:49:47. > :49:51.because this is a negotiation and it has to be a win-win outcome. You
:49:52. > :49:55.used the phrase match fit earlier about whether the British economy
:49:56. > :49:58.has to be after Brexit. There is a huge productivity gap and we have
:49:59. > :50:02.many problems in the economy. To what extent will you resolve this
:50:03. > :50:08.with major new infrastructure spending, and spending on fibre
:50:09. > :50:15.optics and the rest of it? Well, I'm not going to reveal what I'm going
:50:16. > :50:18.to say on Wednesday. Go on. But this is about choices. We don't have
:50:19. > :50:22.unlimited capacity, as one might imagine from listening to John
:50:23. > :50:26.McDonnell, to borrow hundreds of billions of pounds more for
:50:27. > :50:31.discretionary spending. That simply doesn't exist if we are going to
:50:32. > :50:35.retain this country's credibility in financial markets and remain an
:50:36. > :50:39.attractive place for business to invest and create jobs. But we do
:50:40. > :50:45.have to make choices and it is very clear to me that as we move on from
:50:46. > :50:51.being members of the European Union to owning our living in the wider
:50:52. > :50:56.world we do need to address the long-standing productivity challenge
:50:57. > :51:01.in this country, and that means investing in R, investing in
:51:02. > :51:04.economically productive infrastructure schemes. Roads,
:51:05. > :51:08.railways, that kind of thing? It means all of the network
:51:09. > :51:11.infrastructure, but in a modern economy, a knowledge-based economy,
:51:12. > :51:15.it goes much further than that. It is about ensuring we have the
:51:16. > :51:19.science base, the knowledge base, that can build the kind of fourth
:51:20. > :51:23.Industrial Revolution businesses that we need for Britain to be
:51:24. > :51:29.successful. Are you still committed to having workers on the boards of
:51:30. > :51:34.big companies? We want to ensure that the voices of consumers, the
:51:35. > :51:37.voices of workers, are heard in the boardrooms of Britain, we think that
:51:38. > :51:42.makes sense, we think that is good corporate governance and we will
:51:43. > :51:48.discuss, we discussing with business how best that can be achieved.
:51:49. > :51:52.Finally, can I ask, I asked John McDonnell the same question, is it
:51:53. > :51:55.right that we are spending so much money rebuilding Buckingham Palace
:51:56. > :52:02.when things are so tough? This is a grade one listed building an
:52:03. > :52:06.important and iconic monument, a key element supporting Britain's hugely
:52:07. > :52:10.important tourist industry. It is also a building owned by the
:52:11. > :52:15.government. We have responsibilities as a government when we own heritage
:52:16. > :52:19.assets, and this building... The Royal family is very wealthy, should
:52:20. > :52:24.they not be contributing? This is a public building. It has not had its
:52:25. > :52:28.services renewed since the early 1950s. It is frankly a hazard. There
:52:29. > :52:34.is fire risk, there is flood risk hazard from the decrepit state of
:52:35. > :52:38.the services in Buckingham Palace. It is never an easy decision to
:52:39. > :52:41.make, but like the decisions that are being looked at around the
:52:42. > :52:47.Palace of Westminster and other iconic historic heritage buildings,
:52:48. > :52:50.that is fading away before our very eyes, sometimes we have to make
:52:51. > :52:52.these difficult long-term decisions. We will talk more in a moment but
:52:53. > :52:55.for now, thank you very much indeed. Now for a look at what's coming up
:52:56. > :53:02.after this programme, Thank you, Andrew. Coming up on
:53:03. > :53:06.Sunday Morning Live, a 14-year-old girl who died of cancer has been
:53:07. > :53:09.cryogenically frozen in the hope of living again.
:53:10. > :53:13.We examine the ethics. Prison officers warn of overcrowding and a
:53:14. > :53:16.volatile situation in jails. We ask column should we put few people
:53:17. > :53:20.behind bars? And as he prepares to leave strictly
:53:21. > :53:25.come dancing, Len Goodman talks about life beyond the glitter ball.
:53:26. > :53:27.Join us at 10am. I've got both of you on the sofa
:53:28. > :53:28.again. I'm delighted that both
:53:29. > :53:30.John McDonnell and Philip Hammond have joined me together on the sofa
:53:31. > :53:40.to talk to each other Can I ask about your MP colleague
:53:41. > :53:45.who is leading the charge for what they call a clean Brexit? Something
:53:46. > :53:49.that you party now wants, what's the problem with it? The problem with
:53:50. > :53:53.constraining the Prime Minister is that we give away our negotiating
:53:54. > :53:57.cards before we've even started the negotiation. I believe that the best
:53:58. > :54:06.way to support Theresa May to get the best possible deal is to go into
:54:07. > :54:08.the negotiations with the maximum flexibility to play her hand
:54:09. > :54:12.carefully and to come out with the best possible deal for Britain.
:54:13. > :54:16.These Tory MPs making noises should back off and shut up? I would urge
:54:17. > :54:19.my colleagues to give the Prime Minister the flexibility she needs
:54:20. > :54:23.to get the best deal for Britain in what will be a very complex
:54:24. > :54:26.negotiation. I don't think this is about negotiations with the
:54:27. > :54:32.Europeans, I think it's about negotiations within your own party
:54:33. > :54:35.and all we are asking for is what is the vision? Where do you want to
:54:36. > :54:38.arrive at? What is the objective? I listened to the interview, it is
:54:39. > :54:44.about as clear as mud. Even your own side are now saying, tell us where
:54:45. > :54:49.we are going. You are not giving away your negotiation position. When
:54:50. > :54:54.will we know? This is a negotiation, we know where we want to end up. We
:54:55. > :54:57.want to end up with the best possible access to European markets
:54:58. > :55:02.for British firms, the products of British workers. Is that tariff free
:55:03. > :55:06.access to the Single Market? We want European workers and European firms
:55:07. > :55:10.to have continued access to the UK's market. I will not set out any red
:55:11. > :55:15.lines around that. I'm prepared to see a wide-ranging discussion. That
:55:16. > :55:23.is why you are having the rows in your party. We will have it --
:55:24. > :55:28.bespoke solution. You will not get an answer. Let me ask about the
:55:29. > :55:31.benefit cuts. I know you don't want to give a statement ahead of the
:55:32. > :55:34.Autumn Statement but nevertheless it would be a big blow to a lot of
:55:35. > :55:37.people who have been told by your government that they are the main
:55:38. > :55:41.priority if you didn't do something. Are you going to change direction?
:55:42. > :55:46.We have had to make some difficult decisions to deal with it legacy we
:55:47. > :55:52.inherited from Labour, a massive deficit, over 10% of our GDP. And
:55:53. > :55:56.over the last 30 years in work benefits system costs have spiralled
:55:57. > :56:03.out of control. They have tripled over that period in real terms.
:56:04. > :56:09.Wages have been so low. Welfare spending has had to play a part in
:56:10. > :56:12.the fiscal consolidation, along with all other areas of government
:56:13. > :56:19.spending. We made a manifesto commitment to reduce welfare
:56:20. > :56:24.spending by ?12 billion. We have made a commitment... We will not
:56:25. > :56:32.take any further measures to reduce welfare over and above those that
:56:33. > :56:34.have already been announced. This is money coming from people who have
:56:35. > :56:40.done everything asked of them, trying to work, but after their
:56:41. > :56:43.families, I will ask you this. Will you change direction? If you reverse
:56:44. > :56:49.the cuts to Universal Credit and the custody ?30 a week for ESA, you will
:56:50. > :56:53.have my support. John, what I have not heard from you, is where you
:56:54. > :56:57.would get the money from to do these easy options? I would stop the tax
:56:58. > :57:03.giveaways. These are easy options you talk about. I would stop the
:57:04. > :57:10.Capital Gains Tax giveaways, stop the giveaways to corporations. We
:57:11. > :57:14.now have the top 10% of taxpayers making a higher contribution to
:57:15. > :57:21.taxation than they did at any time under the last Labour government.
:57:22. > :57:25.Let me tell you, the IFS, said the bottom 10% have 25 times been hit
:57:26. > :57:31.harder than the top 10%, that is the IFS. Given these figures... Give us
:57:32. > :57:35.this and you will have our support. I will not make Britain and an
:57:36. > :57:39.attractive place for businesses to invest, for businesses to start up
:57:40. > :57:43.and grow. You are cutting benefits for people in work. These are people
:57:44. > :57:46.working to make our economy well. Given the figures you have been
:57:47. > :57:53.saying, why is it he is trusted more value over the economy? Those
:57:54. > :57:56.percentage figures in the polls have been consistent since 2008 because
:57:57. > :57:59.Labour were in government when the crash happened and we haven't
:58:00. > :58:06.recovered. They think you spent too much then. Whatever the discussion
:58:07. > :58:10.is about opinion polls, the actual benefit cuts to people in work and
:58:11. > :58:14.disabled people is more important than party political points. We will
:58:15. > :58:17.support you if you reverse it. We have heard all of this from Labour
:58:18. > :58:22.before and we know where this approach gets us. It is not party
:58:23. > :58:25.politics, we have to be bipartisan, you don't have to harm these people
:58:26. > :58:30.are working hard to get by, and how disabled people. It is easy to sit
:58:31. > :58:33.on the sofa and pretend there are no difficult decisions to make. I know
:58:34. > :58:40.there are difficult decisions. I want to speak to you about the Boris
:58:41. > :58:45.Johnson Customs union, and, is it helpful or not helpful? We have not
:58:46. > :58:52.decided on customs union. That will be one of the issues that is in
:58:53. > :58:57.play. A period of silence would be gratefully received by his
:58:58. > :58:57.ministers. That could be said about the entire programme!
:58:58. > :58:58.LAUGHTER Andrew Neil will be here in an hour
:58:59. > :59:03.with the Sunday Politics when his guests will include two
:59:04. > :59:06.of UKIP's leadership candidates,