:00:00. > :00:00.Well, what a year it's been for British politics -
:00:07. > :00:09.and the big division wasn't between the parties so much
:00:10. > :00:12.as over our European future, or lack of it.
:00:13. > :00:15.This week, we're in reflective mood, looking back at 2016 with a couple
:00:16. > :00:38.This time last year, one of these men was the all-powerful Chancellor,
:00:39. > :00:43.the other just a former Cabinet minister exiled to the back benches.
:00:44. > :00:47.Liam Fox joins us in his first TV interview since becoming Secretary
:00:48. > :00:54.And in his first TV interview since leaving the Cabinet,
:00:55. > :01:03.George Osborne reflects on the future of liberal Britain.
:01:04. > :01:10.On the sofa today, Labour's Angela Eagle,
:01:11. > :01:15.John Nicholson of the SNP, and UKIP's Suzanne Evans.
:01:16. > :01:16.We'll also hear from Doctor Who himself, Peter Capaldi,
:01:17. > :01:25.You know, sometimes I walk into a room and there'll
:01:26. > :01:27.be some kids there and they'll gasp.
:01:28. > :01:33.And as it's almost Christmas, we'll have a carol.
:01:34. > :01:44.Yes, the BBC Singers will be live, later.
:01:45. > :01:50.Before all that, here's the news, read today by Ben Thompson.
:01:51. > :01:53.Holders of public office, such as civil servants
:01:54. > :01:56.and council officials, will have to swear an oath of allegiance
:01:57. > :01:59.to British values in an attempt to tackle extremism.
:02:00. > :02:02.The Communities Secretary, Sajid Javid, says people can't play
:02:03. > :02:06.a positive role in public life unless they accept values such
:02:07. > :02:09.as democracy, equality and freedom of speech.
:02:10. > :02:12.The proposal follows a report that warns of growing ethnic
:02:13. > :02:22.The UN Security Council is to vote today on whether to send observers
:02:23. > :02:25.to the Syrian city of Aleppo, where thousands of civilians
:02:26. > :02:29.One charity has told the BBC that a deal has been reached to restart
:02:30. > :02:33.The process collapsed on Friday, leaving many stranded in freezing
:02:34. > :02:40.and dangerous conditions near the front lines.
:02:41. > :02:43.The former Ukip leader Nigel Farage has said he wants to be a "bridge"
:02:44. > :02:45.between Britain and the incoming Trump administration
:02:46. > :02:51.But Mr Farage told BBC Radio 4 that Downing Street didn't
:02:52. > :02:53.want to acknowledge him and claimed Cabinet ministers had been banned
:02:54. > :03:01.China is set to return an American underwater drone that its navy
:03:02. > :03:08.The US craft was captured in international waters on Thursday.
:03:09. > :03:10.The Pentagon said the drone was being used to carry
:03:11. > :03:14.out scientific research when it was taken.
:03:15. > :03:16.The US President-elect, Donald Trump, took to
:03:17. > :03:24.And if you didn't catch Strictly Come Dancing last night
:03:25. > :03:30.and don't want to know the result, look away now!
:03:31. > :03:32.The BBC's sports presenter Ore Oduba and his partner Joanne Clifton won
:03:33. > :03:35.the trophy in last night's final - beating fellow competitors Danny Mac
:03:36. > :03:44.Last night also marked Len Goodman's last appearance as a judge.
:03:45. > :04:01.As to the front pages, as usual, there is the Sunday express and
:04:02. > :04:06.relentlessly optimistic mood. Brexit fuels festive shopping extravaganza.
:04:07. > :04:11.The Mail on Sunday is talking about foreign aid being misspent. The big
:04:12. > :04:15.papers have the same thing on the front page, they all have Strictly
:04:16. > :04:21.and they all have the unions. In this case, a fight inside the main
:04:22. > :04:25.union about Len McCluskey's role in the Observer. And the Sunday
:04:26. > :04:31.Telegraph, pressure on Theresa May as unions run rampant, it says, and
:04:32. > :04:35.the picture of the Queen and the Prince of Wales and Strictly at the
:04:36. > :04:39.top. And the Sunday Times, rail union boss vows to topple Tories.
:04:40. > :04:44.There is that loyalty oath story that you saw in the news. The
:04:45. > :04:48.question is whether a loyalty oath about British values is itself a
:04:49. > :04:52.British value or not. But we're not going to start on the front pages,
:04:53. > :04:57.are we? We are going to start with Aleppo, which I think, John, user is
:04:58. > :05:01.the most important story in the papers today. It clearly is, given
:05:02. > :05:05.the unfolding tragedy of Aleppo. And here we have on page four and on to
:05:06. > :05:09.page five in the Observer a harrowing account of what it is like
:05:10. > :05:13.to be in Aleppo and it struck me, I think it struck us all, how
:05:14. > :05:17.extraordinary it is that as this unfolding tragedy happens in Aleppo,
:05:18. > :05:21.not a single newspaper has put Aleppo on its front pages and
:05:22. > :05:26.another of the papers have round-ups of the year, including editorial
:05:27. > :05:29.round-ups -- pictorial round-ups and this, for me, is the picture of the
:05:30. > :05:33.year in all the newspapers and magazines and it is the wee boy who
:05:34. > :05:35.was rescued by the white helmets, these heroic people who run towards
:05:36. > :05:41.the barrel bombs to rescue civilians. And he seems completely
:05:42. > :05:46.out of it, completely disoriented with no idea of who he is what's
:05:47. > :05:51.going on. And what is extraordinary is, you have a picture like this and
:05:52. > :05:55.you tweak it, which I did early in the year, you have all these trolls
:05:56. > :06:01.who say that it is staged, that the little boy is a CIA plant. It is
:06:02. > :06:05.extraordinary. There was a lot of Russian propaganda involved in the
:06:06. > :06:09.Aleppo story. False news. What struck me is the fact it is not on
:06:10. > :06:13.the front pages but I was struck by this piece in the Observer, which
:06:14. > :06:18.talks about the stampede now, almost, to get out of the city, for
:06:19. > :06:21.the evacuees to get out. We've heard so many horrors throughout the last
:06:22. > :06:26.months and years about Aleppo but this got me in tears this morning,
:06:27. > :06:30.the struggle to actually leave the city. People started to run like
:06:31. > :06:35.they were mad. They lost luggage, money, I heard more than one lost a
:06:36. > :06:39.child. I don't think any parent can read that without feeling that tug
:06:40. > :06:44.heartstrings about how desperate it is now that it is over, effectively,
:06:45. > :06:48.at least we hope so, but now that dreadful struggle to actually leave
:06:49. > :06:53.to safety. It is awful to see this going on on our watch. We've all
:06:54. > :06:57.read about these kinds of scenes in history and we have an international
:06:58. > :07:04.rules -based system at the UN and its been paralysed by Russian veto
:07:05. > :07:08.after Russian veto so what can we do to bring together the world
:07:09. > :07:12.community, so we can prevent the rule of the strongest always
:07:13. > :07:16.winning? We've got George Osborne coming later on. A speech in the
:07:17. > :07:23.House of Commons this week, saying we had chosen to be bystanders.
:07:24. > :07:25.There are no easy answers. What would we have done? Exactly. Theron
:07:26. > :07:29.easy answers. If you're going to have a rules -based international
:07:30. > :07:34.system, you have you have to have enforcement methods. But the
:07:35. > :07:38.alternative to that is much, much worse and it is the rule of the
:07:39. > :07:42.strongest. The last thing Syria needed was more bombing and the
:07:43. > :07:45.rethink by some people seems to be that we should have been engaged in
:07:46. > :07:50.military action and I'm not sure that was the answer. Let's moved
:07:51. > :07:54.back to the front pages, if we could. Angela, you've chosen the
:07:55. > :07:56.Sunday Telegraph story about the union is running rampant. Do you
:07:57. > :08:01.think they are? Lots of strikes over Christmas. I think there are a
:08:02. > :08:05.couple of difficult strikes going on. We know that the transport
:08:06. > :08:15.system is often close down over Christmas for engineering works. I
:08:16. > :08:20.think the issue with Southern is an ongoing one. The franchise was
:08:21. > :08:23.actually given back to Southern without a proper competition.
:08:24. > :08:29.They've run a chronically bad service and part of having a good
:08:30. > :08:32.service and gaming lots of public subsidy, let's face it, surely ought
:08:33. > :08:37.to be to have reasonable industrial relations. If Labour was in power,
:08:38. > :08:42.do you think you would take Southern back into public ownership? Our
:08:43. > :08:45.policy was to take the franchises back into public ownership as they
:08:46. > :08:49.came due but the important thing at the moment is to have a decent
:08:50. > :08:52.service. People pay thousands of pounds for season tickets and prior
:08:53. > :08:56.to the industrial action, they've been left standing the trends that
:08:57. > :08:59.never turn up and it means they can't get to work. Let's remember
:09:00. > :09:04.that these companies are milking billions of pounds of subsidy for
:09:05. > :09:08.providing this kind of service. We're talking about people who are,
:09:09. > :09:12.by any standards, not very well paid. Let's talk about people who
:09:13. > :09:17.are very well-paid. I mentioned the aid story and you have chosen a
:09:18. > :09:22.spread inside. The scenes we've seen in Aleppo, people expect the foreign
:09:23. > :09:25.aid budget to be spent on people in need, particularly in times of
:09:26. > :09:29.emergency, but the Mail on Sunday has, for a long time, been running a
:09:30. > :09:33.campaign showing how foreign aid money, which is set at about ?1
:09:34. > :09:37.billion a month in the UK, has been utterly abused. I was very pleased
:09:38. > :09:41.to see that international development secretary Priti Patel
:09:42. > :09:45.has now been warning firms... She's put a freeze on certain aspects of
:09:46. > :09:48.the foreign aid budget and has been saying that there has been a
:09:49. > :09:52.top-level investigation launched into how taxpayer money is being
:09:53. > :09:59.spent and what payments and expenses are being taken by some of the fat
:10:00. > :10:02.cat charities who receive this aid money, and it is absolutely
:10:03. > :10:07.astonishing. One organisation was given ?10 million by DFID to tackle
:10:08. > :10:13.starvation and their executive was paid more than ?600,000 a year.
:10:14. > :10:16.Another, marry Stopes international, got ?1 million over two careers for
:10:17. > :10:20.their Chief Executive. Let's remember that foreign aid is a good
:10:21. > :10:26.thing and stops states failing. Nobody is saying it is not a good
:10:27. > :10:33.thing. It educates children, helps to deal with mothers giving birth in
:10:34. > :10:37.areas where that is tough. The strangest Christmas political story
:10:38. > :10:42.is the Christmas karaoke meltdown, as the Mail on Sunday describes it.
:10:43. > :10:48.It is surprising to see the male running an anti-Corbyn story but
:10:49. > :10:54.apparently there was a lovely Labour Party karaoke last night for Labour
:10:55. > :11:03.MPs. They started singing anti-Corbyn songs, which are...
:11:04. > :11:06.Things Can Only Get Better. I got a ticket for this event but I was too
:11:07. > :11:13.ill to go. But I can tell you there is always karaoke at the PLP
:11:14. > :11:18.Christmas do. It is where Ed Balls's talent for the limelight first
:11:19. > :11:26.became evident. But all I can say is, where Labour MPs gather and MPs
:11:27. > :11:31.and party members gather, Things Can Only Get Better is often so because
:11:32. > :11:35.it is our 1997 and then. You've had a terrible year in the Labour Party,
:11:36. > :11:41.2016... I think we will be glad when this year is over. I'm looking
:11:42. > :11:45.forward to New Year's Day. What about 2017, is going to get better?
:11:46. > :11:48.Diane Abbott last week said the polls would turn in the next 12
:11:49. > :11:53.months. Do you agree? They've begun to turn and we have to hope that we
:11:54. > :11:58.can begin to remake our appeal to the electric. It is no good denying
:11:59. > :12:01.that we've had a bad year but it is the same for social Democratic
:12:02. > :12:07.parties across Europe. We have to talk about how we can ensure that
:12:08. > :12:14.people who work burden a reasonable income so that all of the profit
:12:15. > :12:17.doesn't go to all those who own. -- earn a reasonable income. It is
:12:18. > :12:22.creating more unequal societies and that is not good for democracy. In
:12:23. > :12:25.terms of the big Brexit argument, is your expectation that once the
:12:26. > :12:29.details of what we are going to do as we leave the EU come to the House
:12:30. > :12:35.of Commons, things get much tougher for the Tories? I think they do. I
:12:36. > :12:37.think "Brexit means Brexit" is a holding pattern while the Tory
:12:38. > :12:43.aeroplanes look for somewhere to land. I think as soon as Theresa May
:12:44. > :12:47.starts to define what she means by that, her party splinters in all
:12:48. > :12:51.different directions. Looking back on 2016, John, a difficult year for
:12:52. > :12:54.the SNP because you had wanted to be part of the Brexit conversation with
:12:55. > :12:58.the rest of the EU all the way through and you've been, by and
:12:59. > :13:02.large, kept out by the Government. Is that going to change? You say
:13:03. > :13:05.that but I think one of the interesting things is just how
:13:06. > :13:09.different the reaction we get on the international stages from the way it
:13:10. > :13:12.was during the independence referendum. During the independence
:13:13. > :13:16.referendum, we were the bad boys he wanted to break up unitary state and
:13:17. > :13:21.the leaders made a very clear they did want to deal with us. That
:13:22. > :13:25.narrative has now changed. You are the ones that wanted to stay. We are
:13:26. > :13:32.the good Europeans who many European leaders want to report all --
:13:33. > :13:35.reward. 48% of the UK wanted to state it wasn't nearly so big a
:13:36. > :13:38.result and we've got to think about how to bring the country back
:13:39. > :13:43.together. I think I'm a good European as well, I just don't like
:13:44. > :13:46.the European Union. Ukip, officer, was part of the winning side in the
:13:47. > :13:49.referendum and that has been a big part of the story but it leaves the
:13:50. > :13:56.question, what's the point of Ukip now? You've done what you wanted. If
:13:57. > :14:02.I had ?1 for every time people say, "We've reached a peak Ukip," I would
:14:03. > :14:06.be a reach one -- rich woman. We just keep on getting better and
:14:07. > :14:10.better and we've got a new leader now and are looking to a particular
:14:11. > :14:14.target of people who don't recognise the Labour Party any more, good,
:14:15. > :14:18.decent, working class people in this country who don't see in Jeremy
:14:19. > :14:21.Corbyn the way forward for them under Labour. I think we've got a
:14:22. > :14:26.great future ahead. We have to wrap up in a moment but the political
:14:27. > :14:30.awards of the year in the Sunday Times for 2016... They are
:14:31. > :14:37.extraordinary, the political awards. Angela features in them, you'll be
:14:38. > :14:41.glad to see. There she is for the press conference. The politician of
:14:42. > :14:45.the year is Theresa May but one of the stories that is not mentioned in
:14:46. > :14:51.this, which we could perhaps mention, is the Jo Cox single, which
:14:52. > :14:56.politicians of all parties are supporting. Here we have it on the
:14:57. > :15:00.BBC website. All our friends and colleagues from MP for. It is a very
:15:01. > :15:07.good cause and the Rolling Stones have just announced that they are
:15:08. > :15:12.going to waive the royalties for the Jo Cox single. It is at 24 in the
:15:13. > :15:18.charts at the moment, so we wanted to be higher. Before we wrap, one of
:15:19. > :15:24.the pictures of the year, there is Nigel Farage and Trump and there is
:15:25. > :15:29.possibly the scariest picture of the year. All I can say is, we've got
:15:30. > :15:34.Nigel Farage and Trump. He's trying to become the independent
:15:35. > :15:39.ambassador, even though the Government have disowned him and he
:15:40. > :15:40.doesn't represent the country. He's stood for election seven times to
:15:41. > :15:46.Parliament and never succeeded. It's been almost Dickensian
:15:47. > :15:49.this week - a good, I don't suppose there's any chance
:15:50. > :15:53.of old-fashioned snow on the way? That would be too much
:15:54. > :15:56.to hope for, wouldn't it? Jay Wynne is in the BBC
:15:57. > :16:04.weather studio. Wind and rain will be more of an
:16:05. > :16:10.issue as we head into the Christmas weekend. At the moment we have got a
:16:11. > :16:14.lot of dense fog out there. It is slow on the major roads and there
:16:15. > :16:19.could be some delays at airports. For some that will linger well on
:16:20. > :16:24.into the afternoon. Elsewhere it will stay pretty great for most
:16:25. > :16:30.places. But the winds are light and it is dry for the vast majority.
:16:31. > :16:34.Single digits pretty much across the board. On the western side of
:16:35. > :16:40.Scotland the wind will be picking up and more persistent rain will drift
:16:41. > :16:48.towards the western isles. Overnight tonight the fog will be quite dense
:16:49. > :16:53.and it will be chilly as well. The chilly, Grace start to Monday and it
:16:54. > :16:57.will stay grey for most places. A bit of rain drifting in from the
:16:58. > :17:05.North Sea into the South East of England. It becomes more patchy as
:17:06. > :17:10.we get on into the afternoon in western Scotland. Still single
:17:11. > :17:15.figures for most places. The fog will be an issue over the next
:17:16. > :17:18.One of television's annual traditions is the Doctor
:17:19. > :17:22.Last week, Peter Capaldi came in to the studio to tell
:17:23. > :17:24.Sophie Raworth about this year's seasonal outing for the Time Lord.
:17:25. > :17:27.He reflected on how the role had transformed his own life and how
:17:28. > :17:30.Doctor Who has acquired an unexpected fan in the highest
:17:31. > :18:07.It's set in New York and features a real superhero.
:18:08. > :18:10.I think it is the first time we've ever seen the Doctor deal
:18:11. > :18:12.with somebody else who can save the planet.
:18:13. > :18:21.Superheroes nowadays seem to be rather dark characters,
:18:22. > :18:24.in films that end up in kind of CGI orgies of destruction.
:18:25. > :18:27.I think this hankers more back to the Christopher Reeve Superman
:18:28. > :18:30.kind of movies that were funny and ironic and witty.
:18:31. > :18:39.It does seem to have a lighter touch than some of the past episodes.
:18:40. > :18:43.Lucy Fletcher, reporter from the Daily Chronicle.
:18:44. > :18:53.No-one will believe that - this is America.
:18:54. > :18:57.Special agent Dan Dangerous from Scotland Yard, Scotland.
:18:58. > :19:02.I think the Christmas Day episode has a special role to fill.
:19:03. > :19:06.I think a lot of the time, a lot of people watch it who don't
:19:07. > :19:08.normally watch Doctor Who, so it becomes rather
:19:09. > :19:15.I think it provides a nostalgic reminder to people who, perhaps,
:19:16. > :19:20.don't watch the show but it's still around and it reminds
:19:21. > :19:22.them of their childhood, because there's still the Tardis
:19:23. > :19:25.and there's still monsters and there's still a mysterious man
:19:26. > :19:34.It's a tradition but it's quite a responsibility,
:19:35. > :19:38.You've even got the likes of the Prime Minister,
:19:39. > :19:41.who says she's really looking forward to seeing it.
:19:42. > :19:42.You've got plenty of famous fans, no doubt.
:19:43. > :19:46.That was quite a surprise, that she was so keen on it,
:19:47. > :19:49.so I hope she takes his message of tolerance and kindness
:19:50. > :19:54.You talk of responsibility and it is a huge responsibility
:19:55. > :19:56.playing the role that you are playing, isn't it,
:19:57. > :19:58.and you've been doing for three years now?
:19:59. > :20:05.I mean, I was in Doctor Who for all of 15 seconds, reading
:20:06. > :20:09.I couldn't believe the number of letters I got as a result.
:20:10. > :20:11.People saying, "You were in Doctor Who -
:20:12. > :20:15.Can you send me this, that and the other?"
:20:16. > :20:18.So to be the Doctor, I mean, the attention you must
:20:19. > :20:25.You know, it's a really unique position to be in.
:20:26. > :20:29.There are only 12 people who have played this role and you become
:20:30. > :20:35.the focus of the affection for the role and you stand
:20:36. > :20:39.on the shoulders of everybody else who ever played it.
:20:40. > :20:42.And they've done all the work, really, so I just turn up and look
:20:43. > :20:47.alarmed or be excited and blow up a Dalek here and there.
:20:48. > :20:56.It must be quite intrusive as well, though, because you must...
:20:57. > :20:58.You're so distinctive and you must get people coming up
:20:59. > :21:04.No, I don't mean that at all, I just mean very distinctive.
:21:05. > :21:07.But you must get people coming up to you the whole time and...
:21:08. > :21:12.I think it's something about the character.
:21:13. > :21:16.The Doctor is a good thing in the world.
:21:17. > :21:19.I think people feel a deep affection for whatever Doctor it was they grew
:21:20. > :21:23.up with and so you sort of are kind of like the Wizard
:21:24. > :21:30.Sometimes I'll walk into a room and there'll be some kids
:21:31. > :21:38.Can you imagine how lovely that is, to have such affection
:21:39. > :21:47.They just like to see you and for you to say hello
:21:48. > :21:56.There was a report I saw last year that said you literally had to move
:21:57. > :21:57.house because you had people on your doorstep.
:21:58. > :22:02.Well, I lived next to the park and the ice cream van used to park
:22:03. > :22:05.right outside my house and so there used to be a huge queue
:22:06. > :22:21.We moved just before my Doctor Whos came out but I knew it was going
:22:22. > :22:24.We moved just before my Doctor Whos came out but I knew it wasn't going
:22:25. > :22:31.My attitude about it is that I didn't want it to change my
:22:32. > :22:36.But in as much as my private life goes, it remains much the same.
:22:37. > :22:38.But when I go out into the world, I can't...
:22:39. > :22:41.You know, I don't want to escape the idea that I'm Doctor Who.
:22:42. > :22:48.So there will be a day when people don't come and say hello.
:22:49. > :22:59.The last time my next guest was here he was at the height
:23:00. > :23:01.of his powers as Chancellor ahead of the budget in March.
:23:02. > :23:04.The arch tactician except, of course, that he then came
:23:05. > :23:06.a terrible cropper as the British people ignored his blood-chilling
:23:07. > :23:09.warnings of economic apocalypse and voted to leave the EU.
:23:10. > :23:14.There's been, as you'd expect, a period of reflection,
:23:15. > :23:27.Is this a slightly different George Osborne done the George Osborne are
:23:28. > :23:32.used to talk to? Well, I am learning a lot. I do not want to trade on my
:23:33. > :23:38.experience of being Chancellor. I do not want to be 60 or 70 years of age
:23:39. > :23:42.talking about what I did when I was 40 years old, so I am trying to
:23:43. > :23:46.learn as much as possible about the world, get out of the inevitable
:23:47. > :23:50.panel you find yourself in when you are doing one of the top jobs in
:23:51. > :23:58.British politics, and try and understand what I got right, but
:23:59. > :24:03.also what I got wrong. Talking about what you got wrong, the referendum
:24:04. > :24:08.above all. You had all these bloodcurdling warnings, the
:24:09. > :24:11.punishment budget, the economic bomb under the economy, 800,000 jobs
:24:12. > :24:17.going in two years and people did not believe you listen to you. Why
:24:18. > :24:22.do you think that was? Of course people in the end chose by a small
:24:23. > :24:28.majority to leave the EU and I have to respect that and I have to accept
:24:29. > :24:32.the campaign we fought was the wrong campaign, it did not work, it did
:24:33. > :24:38.not persuade people. That is the purpose of a campaign. If anything
:24:39. > :24:45.maybe we lacked some of the authenticity, some of the optimism
:24:46. > :24:49.of the Leave campaign. We discovered there was not much out there in
:24:50. > :24:54.terms of support for European friendship and we ended up talking a
:24:55. > :24:58.lot about the economy. As Chancellor I was centre stage in that because
:24:59. > :25:04.of the economic risks we saw and others sought in leaving the EU. Was
:25:05. > :25:10.it a mistake? That is your characterisation. Other things that
:25:11. > :25:16.we might have wanted to talk about, like the fact it is good to get on
:25:17. > :25:22.with European neighbours, it is good to be part of a multilateral rules
:25:23. > :25:26.-based system, that it is good for Britain to shape world events, all
:25:27. > :25:30.those arguments, and I am not saying we cannot do them out of the EU, but
:25:31. > :25:35.they will be difficult, all those arguments were falling on deaf ears,
:25:36. > :25:39.so the economic argument came to the fore in the campaign. But I am the
:25:40. > :25:45.first to say it did not work and that is why I am here and I am not
:25:46. > :25:50.the Chancellor. It is reported in a book that when David Cameron said, I
:25:51. > :25:54.have got this great idea for a European referendum, you said, we
:25:55. > :25:59.will lose it and it will destroy the Tory party. Did you say that? I was
:26:00. > :26:03.not a great fan for having a referendum, but I am a team player
:26:04. > :26:07.and politics is at its most successful when you are a team. I
:26:08. > :26:12.can look back on a happy time in Downing Street because I worked very
:26:13. > :26:25.closely with people like David and others to achieve things and turn
:26:26. > :26:28.around this country. Once we were in the referendum I did everything I
:26:29. > :26:31.could to win it. I was not going to sit it out. It was an important
:26:32. > :26:31.enough issue about the future of the country.
:26:32. > :26:36.I felt strongly about it though I was prepared to do what I did at the
:26:37. > :26:39.time, which was damaging my reputation with fellow conservatives
:26:40. > :26:42.who did not agree with me. What is the point of doing those jobs if you
:26:43. > :26:48.are not fighting for what you think is right? You also damage your
:26:49. > :26:52.reputation because what you said at the time was not true. We did not
:26:53. > :26:58.have the punishment budget, we have not lost all those jobs, in fact the
:26:59. > :27:03.economy is going quite well. Do you look forward and think Brexit is
:27:04. > :27:06.good for the economy? I hope predictions we made before the
:27:07. > :27:12.referendum turned out not to be true. I sweated blood to turn the
:27:13. > :27:17.British economy around. I am proud we got all these people into work
:27:18. > :27:23.and we made Britain the fastest growing economy in the West. But
:27:24. > :27:26.let's wait and see what happens. The pound fell sharply and we are not
:27:27. > :27:32.going to pretend any more that the pound in your pocket is not worth
:27:33. > :27:37.any less. Britain is Pura as a result. All of the forecasts,
:27:38. > :27:41.including the government's own independent forecast, showed the
:27:42. > :27:45.economy will next year. But what the future tells you at the moment and
:27:46. > :27:50.what financial markets tell you today is that every time they think
:27:51. > :27:53.Britain will have a less close relationship with our trading
:27:54. > :27:59.partners in Europe, every time there is a hint from the government like
:28:00. > :28:03.that, then the pound falls and the world is betting against Britain.
:28:04. > :28:06.Every time you have thoughtful contributions from members of the
:28:07. > :28:12.government saying we need some kind of drugs transition, we need to have
:28:13. > :28:18.something more than the world trade organisation, every time you hear
:28:19. > :28:24.something like that, the world bets on Britain. We are well placed to
:28:25. > :28:28.make a success of this century. We have got a great work for us, we
:28:29. > :28:33.have got entrepreneurial businesses. Let's make sure we have close
:28:34. > :28:38.trading relationships with our key neighbours outside the EU, but that
:28:39. > :28:40.does not mean we are leaving the trading arrangements that have
:28:41. > :28:47.sustained this country for centuries. You mention the fact it
:28:48. > :28:52.was a close result and the 48%. The question is what is the role of the
:28:53. > :28:57.48% in what happens now? Do they still have a voice in the way we
:28:58. > :29:03.leave the EU? Do you have views of how we should leave which might tend
:29:04. > :29:09.towards the soft side of the spectrum? We cannot go on thinking
:29:10. > :29:14.about the 48th and the 52. I was in the 48. We are part of 100%, the
:29:15. > :29:20.referendum has happened and we are leaving the EU. The question on the
:29:21. > :29:24.ballot paper was do you want to leave the EU? It was not about the
:29:25. > :29:29.new arrangement with the rest of the EU. I believe it is in Great
:29:30. > :29:33.Britain's national interest to have the closest possible relations with
:29:34. > :29:38.key partners of hours like the French, the Germans and the Dutch.
:29:39. > :29:44.Whether we like it or not they will remain our geographical neighbours
:29:45. > :29:50.for time immemorial. We cannot tell ourselves out into the middle of the
:29:51. > :29:51.Atlantic. Does that mean we should stay in the European economic area
:29:52. > :29:59.and the I think when we come to these key
:30:00. > :30:04.questions, there are a variety of arrangements we can have and other
:30:05. > :30:07.countries, from Switzerland to Norway to Turkey, have different
:30:08. > :30:10.relationships with the EU. We should do this on the basis of a
:30:11. > :30:15.hard-headed assessment of what is in our national and economic interests.
:30:16. > :30:21.So yes, it's true that the grass may be greener outside of those
:30:22. > :30:24.arrangements and we may be able to conduct new free-trade deals with
:30:25. > :30:29.Australia and the United States and so on, but that shouldn't come at a
:30:30. > :30:32.price of giving up the existing free-trade arrangements we have with
:30:33. > :30:38.Germany and France. You think we can keep those? That's where I would be
:30:39. > :30:41.starting from. You can't say that we are a beacon of free trade in the
:30:42. > :30:44.world and then the main thing you achieve is a huge act of
:30:45. > :30:49.protectionism, the biggest in British history. We have to
:30:50. > :30:54.understand that whilst... You know, I'm a massive fan of trade deals
:30:55. > :30:57.with Australia, I want to do trade deals with China, quite
:30:58. > :31:01.controversial in this country, and they will prove to be so, many of
:31:02. > :31:04.these trade deals when they come to Parliament, but there is no point
:31:05. > :31:07.saying you want all of that trade but you don't want to do the trade
:31:08. > :31:12.we already do with countries like Germany and France which are central
:31:13. > :31:15.trading partners to us. Do you think the House of Commons should be able
:31:16. > :31:19.to look at the detail of whatever deal we do as we leave the EU in
:31:20. > :31:23.time, in other words not at the last minute but before it is finally
:31:24. > :31:28.agreed? I have to say, personally I think it is all a bit of an odd
:31:29. > :31:31.debate. We live in a Parliamentary democracy. Theresa May is the prime
:31:32. > :31:36.minister because Conservative MPs, myself included in her case, chose
:31:37. > :31:39.her to be the Prime Minister and, of course, Parliament is going to have
:31:40. > :31:43.to be central to these discussions because our government comes out of
:31:44. > :31:47.parliament. That doesn't mean the executive shouldn't show a lead,
:31:48. > :31:50.that we don't expect and would like our government show that lead, and I
:31:51. > :31:53.think they can but, in the end, all of these things are going to be
:31:54. > :31:58.debated in Parliament, whether government likes it or not because,
:31:59. > :32:02.in our system, Parliament itself can insist on debating things next week,
:32:03. > :32:06.next month, next year. So we are going to get proper Brexit debate in
:32:07. > :32:10.the House of Commons in 2017? I think we are, in fact the Brexit
:32:11. > :32:13.debate has started in the House of Commons and are already proving that
:32:14. > :32:16.the numbers are Parliament do want to have a say in these things and
:32:17. > :32:20.Government is going to have to listen to Parliament. To do that, do
:32:21. > :32:24.you think we need to see a proper plan from the Government before
:32:25. > :32:28.Article 50? The Government have no promise that plan, partly because of
:32:29. > :32:31.Parliamentary pressure, and what you need is that realistic assessment.
:32:32. > :32:35.Let's take the example of a customs union. If we leave the customs
:32:36. > :32:39.union, we can do our own trade deals, that's the argument, so let's
:32:40. > :32:42.do an assessment of how much those trade deals bring, how realistic is
:32:43. > :32:47.it that we can pass them through Parliament, for example, in return
:32:48. > :32:53.for what we blues from leaving the customs union. I want to see those
:32:54. > :32:56.assessments. I'm very open-minded about what the best arrangements are
:32:57. > :33:02.for Britain. I'm a passionate believer in free trade, free markets
:33:03. > :33:09.and access to a global trading system, but let's stopped having
:33:10. > :33:14.assertion and in 2017 start getting into a real debate about the numbers
:33:15. > :33:17.and arrangements that best suit Britain because Parliament is about
:33:18. > :33:24.peoples jobs, the factories, the services that people provide in this
:33:25. > :33:27.country. On the services, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, you saw
:33:28. > :33:31.the tax revenue that came in from the City and the service sector. How
:33:32. > :33:38.worried are you about the future of the City post Brexit? Well, it is
:33:39. > :33:41.not just the City. In Britain's ten largest cities, financial services
:33:42. > :33:45.is the biggest employer and two thirds of all jobs in financial
:33:46. > :33:48.services are outside London. It is massively important to our country
:33:49. > :33:52.and you already have, for example, Lloyd's of London for the first time
:33:53. > :33:55.in its 300 year history saying it is going to have a European operation.
:33:56. > :34:01.You have my successor, excellent Chancellor in Philip Hammond, being
:34:02. > :34:06.told that Japanese banks are concerned. The decisions we take
:34:07. > :34:08.about our financial services operations will have a material
:34:09. > :34:12.effect on this country and by thing we can do a deal where we are the
:34:13. > :34:17.financial services centre of Europe because in my view, the jobs will
:34:18. > :34:20.not simply go to Dublin or Frankfurt, they are much more
:34:21. > :34:24.likely, in my view, to go to New York if we get this wrong. If we
:34:25. > :34:29.have to compromise, for instance on free movement of people, to get that
:34:30. > :34:33.deal, is that worth doing? I would not go into this negotiation
:34:34. > :34:38.necessarily drawing redlines. I would say, we are leaving the EU,
:34:39. > :34:42.that is the only red line I would draw, let's go in and get the best
:34:43. > :34:45.deals are people in Britain, address people's concerns about immigration,
:34:46. > :34:49.which I think are around the fact the people come here and don't work
:34:50. > :34:55.or assimilate into our society. Sajid Javid has a plan today in that
:34:56. > :34:57.respect it up people see that the board is an secure and there are
:34:58. > :35:01.migrants jumping out of lorries at Calais and Dover and so on. There
:35:02. > :35:06.are concerns about immigration which can be addressed but let us not
:35:07. > :35:09.throw out the baby with the bath water and let's not lose the massive
:35:10. > :35:12.contribution that immigrants have made over many centuries and
:35:13. > :35:17.continue to make to Britain's prosperity and society. You've
:35:18. > :35:20.talked candidly about making mistakes in office and how it is
:35:21. > :35:23.different to row back from something you've said. Surely the tens of
:35:24. > :35:27.thousands promise on migration is the single one of those? I think in
:35:28. > :35:32.the end, setting a target we were unable to hit obviously damaged us
:35:33. > :35:36.in the referendum because we didn't really have an answer on programmes
:35:37. > :35:41.like this too, you set this target - how are you going to achieve it,
:35:42. > :35:46.because you've tried all the other levers you've pulled? The problem
:35:47. > :35:51.with any target is, within it are all sorts of different types of
:35:52. > :35:54.migrants. There are people who are coming permanently, for reasons, for
:35:55. > :35:58.example, to be with their family but may not make an economic
:35:59. > :36:01.contribution to the country, and they're coming to be with us for the
:36:02. > :36:06.rest of their lives. There are also students who turn up, our only there
:36:07. > :36:10.for three or four years, and education is one of our biggest
:36:11. > :36:13.exports. It is one of the biggest exports in the world and creates
:36:14. > :36:18.links around the world of affection to Britain. Should they be counted
:36:19. > :36:21.in the figures? When I was the Chancellor, I thought it was not
:36:22. > :36:25.sensible to include them in the figures but that's got to be a
:36:26. > :36:29.collective decision. Two very quick once. Once we get this deal,
:36:30. > :36:33.whatever kind of deal we get, do you think it should be put to the
:36:34. > :36:39.country in a second referendum? Well, the first referendum... No is
:36:40. > :36:44.the answer? The first referendum was enough for me. One question about
:36:45. > :36:47.you yourself. I guess your lowest moment was being booed at the
:36:48. > :36:51.Paralympic Games. Did that really hurt? Well, it hurt partly because
:36:52. > :36:55.my children were in the audience at the time but it made me think again
:36:56. > :36:59.as Chancellor that you can't just hunker down in your bunker. You have
:37:00. > :37:03.to go out there and understand the country you are trying to govern and
:37:04. > :37:06.that's what I'm trying to do now, whether with the northern powerhouse
:37:07. > :37:10.work I'm doing, when I'm travelling to these cities to understand why
:37:11. > :37:15.people feel the systems don't work for them, trying to understand how
:37:16. > :37:18.the politics in our country is shifting, and when you are
:37:19. > :37:22.Chancellor of the Exchequer you take difficult decisions and have to live
:37:23. > :37:27.with them and people judge you by them, but sometimes those moments to
:37:28. > :37:30.help change you for the better. And you want to, as it were, relaunch
:37:31. > :37:34.yourself and you are very welcome here but you are on the wrong show
:37:35. > :37:38.and I wonder whether the makers of Strictly have been in touch. This is
:37:39. > :37:42.one thing where Ed Balls is definitely better than meet it up I
:37:43. > :37:48.watched it last night with my daughter... Have you been asked to
:37:49. > :37:54.go on? I'm sure I have but I have turned it down! I think it is a
:37:55. > :37:58.brilliant piece of television and it is a great success story and well
:37:59. > :38:00.done, or a. Thank you very much indeed.
:38:01. > :38:02.2016 is a year where that over-used word "extraordinary" feels
:38:03. > :38:05.appropriate, so before we talk to our next guest, let's remember
:38:06. > :38:08.some of the political and cultural moments that kept us going on Sunday
:38:09. > :38:10.mornings during 2016, with a little help from some
:38:11. > :38:15.of our musical guests over the last twelve months.
:38:16. > :38:27.We awoke to the news on a Monday morning that he had died
:38:28. > :38:29.and it was a very sad day, a very eerie day.
:38:30. > :38:31.He had managed to turn his final chapter into art.
:38:32. > :38:41.It's not easy, it's painful to resign.
:38:42. > :38:44.I don't want to resign, but I'm resigning because I think
:38:45. > :38:49.If you lose the referendum, do you stay as Prime Minister?
:38:50. > :39:00.The renegotiation is now complete after exhaustive work travelling
:39:01. > :39:03.right across Europe, meeting every single
:39:04. > :39:10.People are beginning to put two fingers up to the political past.
:39:11. > :39:13.The opportunities for people living here in the UK
:39:14. > :39:15.will be more secure, will be better, if we are
:39:16. > :39:22.It's not the Boris Johnson show, it's the Andrew Marr show.
:39:23. > :39:27.A huge torrent of verbal audio has poured on your head
:39:28. > :39:30.The governor will be significantly regretting getting
:39:31. > :39:37.I don't think the UK will be able to stop Turkey joining.
:39:38. > :39:40.There is no possibility of Turkey joining in the near future.
:39:41. > :39:44.The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be
:39:45. > :39:55.You kind of want it thematically all in the stew.
:39:56. > :39:58.I've just been doing a lot of that lately.
:39:59. > :40:02.# Tell me if there's something I should say.
:40:03. > :40:05.Do you ever look at your agent and say can you bring me someone
:40:06. > :40:07.who is gentle and motherly and slightly herbivorous?
:40:08. > :40:15.Are you going to be happy with Donald Trump
:40:16. > :40:30.# When your heart is broken down, down, down.
:40:31. > :40:44.Jo was this unbelievable bundle of energy and joy and enthusiasm
:40:45. > :40:48.and she would never rest in peace when she was alive and she would not
:40:49. > :40:55.We can now say the decision taken in 1975 by the country to join
:40:56. > :41:06.You're jumping several steps ahead of me.
:41:07. > :41:11.I'm a young gazelle, that's what I do.
:41:12. > :41:17.This morning it does look as if a full-scale coup
:41:18. > :41:18.against the Labour leader is under way.
:41:19. > :41:24.He's a good and decent man but he's not a leader
:41:25. > :41:31.Well, Hilary confirmed to me in a phone call that he had indeed
:41:32. > :41:34.been collecting signatures for some days.
:41:35. > :41:37.The purpose of being engaged in politics is to secure democratic
:41:38. > :41:46.Let me just say this to Labour Party supporters,
:41:47. > :41:49.Labour members, members of the Parliamentary Labour Party,
:41:50. > :41:59.Project smear, Tories battle to stop Boris, Tories at war.
:42:00. > :42:02.You brought down David Cameron then you brought down Boris Johnson.
:42:03. > :42:05.Some people are saying you are a kind of political serial
:42:06. > :42:10.If you turn to that camera and say something sinister,
:42:11. > :42:15.Well, as I said earlier, there are all sorts of people
:42:16. > :42:17.who will say disobliging things about me.
:42:18. > :42:23.# And after all that's been said and done...
:42:24. > :42:30.That line between public and private life is almost nonexistent any more.
:42:31. > :42:34.Obesity costs more globally than all conflict on the planet.
:42:35. > :42:44.You were the favourite to win, there seems to be no medical problem
:42:45. > :42:48.Yeah, I really struggle in that period.
:42:49. > :42:51.June and July is the worst period for that.
:42:52. > :42:53.# One more night, one more night till the morning...
:42:54. > :42:56.Another Sunday and a new Prime Minister.
:42:57. > :42:58.# One more night, one more night till the day.
:42:59. > :43:01.I'm not going to pretend that it's all going to be plain sailing.
:43:02. > :43:04.We will trigger before the end of March next year.
:43:05. > :43:09.Terrible things were said on all sides, people said
:43:10. > :43:13.They certainly did, I've got a list of them.
:43:14. > :43:16.You've only got half an hour on the programme.
:43:17. > :43:22.All politicians are the same, you hate to say that was
:43:23. > :43:25.a mistake and we get a degraded political discord.
:43:26. > :43:32.It is easy to sit on the sofa and pretend there are no difficult
:43:33. > :43:35.But not on the backs of these people.
:43:36. > :43:40.I'm the person who saw the elephant in the room which was there
:43:41. > :43:44.You should actually be my biggest fan because I've just created legal
:43:45. > :43:46.certainty so that Theresa May can now, rather than appealing, go ahead
:43:47. > :44:03.TRANSLATION: Marine Le Pen being elected French president.
:44:04. > :44:12.Let's turn around and look forward now.
:44:13. > :44:15.If you're confused about the shape of things to come after we leave
:44:16. > :44:18.the EU, my next guest is here to help clear things up.
:44:19. > :44:24.I'm joined by the International Trade Secretary, Liam Fox.
:44:25. > :44:31.A year ago I had you on this show and you were going to campaign to
:44:32. > :44:36.leave the EU and you were clear about what that meant. You said no
:44:37. > :44:40.more paying money into the EU, control of immigration and no
:44:41. > :44:46.involvement in the customs union. Is that still your view? We have to
:44:47. > :44:51.take back our own abilities to make our own laws and get control over
:44:52. > :44:59.migration and determine what was good for Britain instead of having
:45:00. > :45:08.our policy set elsewhere, and to have control of our money. Those
:45:09. > :45:14.three messages resonated. I watched George Osborne said there should be
:45:15. > :45:20.no lines. Do you agree with that? He said there should be negotiation,
:45:21. > :45:25.but the public have made it clear they do not want to see uncontrolled
:45:26. > :45:31.migration and they do not want to see as being controlled by the
:45:32. > :45:38.European Court. We have to listen to what was an instruction from the
:45:39. > :45:40.voters. If we want control over migration, we cannot be inside the
:45:41. > :45:46.European Union. What about the customs union? One of the things
:45:47. > :45:51.about the Theresa May government is it is very methodical in its
:45:52. > :45:55.approach. What we have decided is we all come to these arguments from the
:45:56. > :46:00.referendum campaign with different views, but we have decided to look
:46:01. > :46:05.at the data. We need to have a fact -based decision said George Osborne
:46:06. > :46:10.and I agree with that. Does that mean staying inside the customs
:46:11. > :46:16.union? I want to put this in a non-confrontational way. If we stay
:46:17. > :46:19.inside the customs union we can do international trade deals that your
:46:20. > :46:25.department was set up to create and there is no point in Liam Fox. There
:46:26. > :46:29.are limitations on what we can do in terms of tariff setting which would
:46:30. > :46:35.limit what kind of deals you would do. That is correct. But we want to
:46:36. > :46:40.look at all the different things. It is not hard Brexit and soft Brexit
:46:41. > :46:47.as if it was a soft boiled egg, there are different gradations.
:46:48. > :46:53.Before we make final decisions, we have to look at the costs. It is
:46:54. > :46:56.interesting to hear Liam Fox talking about the possibility of hybrid
:46:57. > :47:01.arrangements because you have always been the arch free trader in terms
:47:02. > :47:05.of government ministers. You want to go out into the world and create
:47:06. > :47:11.free trade deals, but inside the customs union we cannot. Liam Fox
:47:12. > :47:15.accepts that is a possibility. The government will come to a view on
:47:16. > :47:20.this once we looked at all the issues. We cannot go for a quick
:47:21. > :47:24.result, we have to get the right result. Whatever result we come to,
:47:25. > :47:29.we have to put in front of the British people the reasoning for
:47:30. > :47:34.coming to that result. You are open to the possibility of staying inside
:47:35. > :47:38.the customs union? I will argue my case inside Cabinet rather than on
:47:39. > :47:44.the TV. You have always been outspoken about this. I remain as
:47:45. > :47:49.George Osborne said an instinctive free trader. In the global economy
:47:50. > :47:54.at the moment the rate of growth of trade is slowing down and it is
:47:55. > :47:57.slowing down below global GDP. We have to have a more open global
:47:58. > :48:02.trading environment and at the moment the only place where people
:48:03. > :48:06.are talking about imposing impediments to trade and investment
:48:07. > :48:11.that do not exist at the moment is the European Union and that does not
:48:12. > :48:17.make sense. In September you talked optimistically about the joys of
:48:18. > :48:21.being out of the EU and in the World Trade Organisation environment. Do
:48:22. > :48:25.you accept that would mean tariffs between our farmers and our
:48:26. > :48:31.businesses and the EU as it exists? Quite substantial ones. That would
:48:32. > :48:36.depend on the choices we make. It is important to have continuity in our
:48:37. > :48:41.trade. It makes no sense to pose tariffs across the European
:48:42. > :48:45.continent. To lose advantage would it be to have tariffs against French
:48:46. > :48:50.goods. It does not help the farmers or our businesses. You said you were
:48:51. > :48:54.in favour of continuity. There has been a lot of talk about
:48:55. > :48:59.transitional arrangements so we avoid the cliff edge between being
:49:00. > :49:05.in the EU and outside the EU. Are you also in favour of transitional
:49:06. > :49:08.arrangements? It depends what the arrangements we come to with the
:49:09. > :49:12.European Union and the timescale we implement it and there are many
:49:13. > :49:16.variables within that. People are saying every day this could happen
:49:17. > :49:24.and this might happen until we get a clear plan. But you have to look at
:49:25. > :49:29.the business we have, nationally and internationally and the impact it
:49:30. > :49:32.will have on International trade to minimise disruption on that. But you
:49:33. > :49:39.cannot buy back into so much of the European Union which is what some
:49:40. > :49:43.people have told us to do. You have got a strange job because you are
:49:44. > :49:47.talking to people in the world about what might happen after we leave the
:49:48. > :49:52.EU, but you cannot yet say what situation we will be in. Do you have
:49:53. > :49:56.any basic assumptions about the state we will be in as we leave the
:49:57. > :50:01.EU which will inform conversations you have with the Australians and
:50:02. > :50:06.the Americans and the Koreans? First of all we have to get Britain's
:50:07. > :50:12.exporters up. We had a successful trip with the Prime Minister India
:50:13. > :50:16.where we got billions worth of orders. We have got direct
:50:17. > :50:21.investment into Britain and also British investment elsewhere so we
:50:22. > :50:26.can help mature other markets which then become an opportunity for us.
:50:27. > :50:30.On the trade policy element we have got the Brexit discussions which
:50:31. > :50:35.will have an impact elsewhere. But there are other issues about how you
:50:36. > :50:39.liberalise global trade. In particular it is not just tariffs
:50:40. > :50:44.that are the problem. It is nontariff barriers that we should be
:50:45. > :50:47.talking about liberalising. We should be thinking about it more
:50:48. > :50:54.because it is one of the best ways of taking people out of global
:50:55. > :50:58.poverty. You can have conversations about nontariff barriers, but you
:50:59. > :51:02.cannot have conversations about Peter trade deals until you leave
:51:03. > :51:07.the EU? We are not allowed to negotiate trade deals until we
:51:08. > :51:12.leave, but it is rational to have discussions about trade
:51:13. > :51:16.liberalisation in general. You can prepare a lot of ground work. Does
:51:17. > :51:19.that mean on the day we leave the EU you could be ready to sign
:51:20. > :51:25.free-trade deals between America and others? The first thing we want to
:51:26. > :51:30.do is maintain the continuity of agreements we have. We have 35
:51:31. > :51:34.free-trade agreements with other countries. We want to maintain the
:51:35. > :51:38.stability of those and market access. We have had some good
:51:39. > :51:44.discussions with South Korea in London a couple of days ago. It is
:51:45. > :51:49.important to stress we want the European Union to be successful, we
:51:50. > :51:55.want it to be a strong trading and economic and security partner for
:51:56. > :52:00.the United Kingdom. If we can come to an agreement that minimises any
:52:01. > :52:04.trade barriers, it is good for the people of Europe. It is worth
:52:05. > :52:10.pointing out because there has been a lot of talk about people's in and
:52:11. > :52:15.how far you go and when you get restrictions on trade it hurts the
:52:16. > :52:22.poorest the most. We have got to ensure they are not the victims of
:52:23. > :52:26.politics. When you launched the Vote Leave Campaign, you are sure we
:52:27. > :52:32.should not be paying money into the EU after we leave. Is that still
:52:33. > :52:40.your vision? There might be things outside the European Union. ?5
:52:41. > :52:47.billion a year that Mark Carney was talking about. I would expect things
:52:48. > :52:51.to continue through the Dutch and the French and the German elections
:52:52. > :52:56.and my job is to help us prepare for what happens once we have left the
:52:57. > :53:04.European Union itself. Do you think once Article 50 is triggered it is
:53:05. > :53:12.revoke a bull? Once we get there is not a matter of legality, it is a
:53:13. > :53:16.matter of democracy. As we get into 2017I hope the people accept the
:53:17. > :53:21.public have given us an instruction. We said we would ask the public to
:53:22. > :53:26.tell us what to do about the European Union. When people try to
:53:27. > :53:32.undermine the result I say, what do they not understand about democracy,
:53:33. > :53:37.referendum or binary? People did not vote on the deal you will eventually
:53:38. > :53:41.get. That is hugely important and it is important that House of Commond
:53:42. > :53:46.have a proper chance to vote on the detail of any deal that you do. The
:53:47. > :53:51.House of commons will have endless opportunities to debate on these
:53:52. > :53:58.issues. We have a debate coming up quite soon. There will be ongoing
:53:59. > :54:02.scrutiny. Including a vote? The public voted to leave the European
:54:03. > :54:07.Union. Constitutionally it is the job of the government to carry out
:54:08. > :54:12.the public's instruction and it is Parliament's job to scrutinise. And
:54:13. > :54:18.to vote on that. The public did not vote as to if we should be in the
:54:19. > :54:23.customs union and other issues. You can have a referendum on all those
:54:24. > :54:28.things, but the public were clear, we were to leave the union as it is
:54:29. > :54:32.now and no going back on that. Of all the leading Tories you are the
:54:33. > :54:35.closest to the Americans and the Republican party and you now have
:54:36. > :54:41.Nigel Farage offering himself as a bridge. He says that people like you
:54:42. > :54:48.have to them not to speak to him. That is pretty petty. We have had
:54:49. > :54:54.long-standing understanding things about how we deal with an incoming
:54:55. > :54:57.administration in this country. We have a full diplomatic team that was
:54:58. > :55:01.close to both the Hillary Clinton and the Donald Trump team is
:55:02. > :55:06.preparing for the relationship we would have. They are working on that
:55:07. > :55:10.at the moment. The administration is not the only part of the American
:55:11. > :55:14.government and we have strong links with Congress. We need to work on
:55:15. > :55:19.all of those. We do not need anything that is an adjunct to what
:55:20. > :55:23.the government has done successfully in the past. If Nigel Farage has
:55:24. > :55:29.this good relationship, and he clearly does, and he is offering
:55:30. > :55:33.himself as a go-between, is it small-minded to turn him down? We
:55:34. > :55:37.have got a perfectly good ambassador at the moment and the last time I
:55:38. > :55:42.looked there was no vacancy. And do you have a good relationship with
:55:43. > :55:48.the administration? I have not met Donald Trump. I know the likely
:55:49. > :55:52.Defence Secretary in the US and there are strong links and we will
:55:53. > :55:56.want to pursue those and we want to ensure our trading and economic
:55:57. > :56:02.relationship with the United States, our single biggest economic partner,
:56:03. > :56:06.will be fruitful in the future. If in 2017 you take these details to
:56:07. > :56:12.MPs and you lose important votes, should you go back to the country
:56:13. > :56:17.for a Brexit referendum next year? The last thing we require is
:56:18. > :56:21.political uncertainty. We will have elections in the Netherlands and
:56:22. > :56:25.France and Germany and that is quite enough for 2017.
:56:26. > :56:30.Andrew Neil with the Sunday Politics.
:56:31. > :56:32.He'll be speaking to the former Conservative MP Stephen Dorrell
:56:33. > :56:35.who's calling for a second EU referendum, the Australian High
:56:36. > :56:37.Commissioner, Alexander Downer, on the opportunities of Brexit,
:56:38. > :56:40.and he'll be asking John Sauven of Greepeace if the air we breath
:56:41. > :56:42.is really "disgusting, dangerous and deadly".
:56:43. > :56:55.We'll be back on the 8th of January at the usual time of nine o'clock.
:56:56. > :56:57.For now, as promised, some jolly music.
:56:58. > :57:00.This Thursday morning on Radio 3 the BBC Singers will be performing
:57:01. > :57:02.the winning carol from Radio 3's Breakfast Christmas
:57:03. > :57:06.In the meantime, they're here with something a little more
:57:07. > :57:09.traditional to close the show in a festive mood.
:57:10. > :57:14.# Ding dong! Merrily on high in heav'n the bells are ringing
:57:15. > :57:18.# Ding dong! Verily the sky is riv'n with angels singing
:57:19. > :57:45.# E'en so here below, below, let steeple bells be swungen
:57:46. > :57:50.# And i-o, i-o, i-o, by priest and people sungen
:57:51. > :58:17.# Pray you, dutifully prime your matin chime, ye ringers
:58:18. > :58:22.# May you beautifully rhyme your evetime song, ye singers
:58:23. > :59:05.You are charged with the murder of Mrs Emily French.