:00:00. > :00:07.There's talk of an NHS crisis absolutely everywhere.
:00:08. > :00:09.Theresa May is set to confirm we'll be out
:00:10. > :00:12.of the European Single Market - a move that will appall
:00:13. > :00:17.You might have thought the opposition would be riding high.
:00:18. > :00:21.Instead, Labour's had yet another - yet another - terrible week.
:00:22. > :00:43.Is time running out for Jeremy Corbyn?
:00:44. > :00:45.The Labour leader, fresh from his most radical speech yet,
:00:46. > :00:48.is here to explain how his anti-establishment politics
:00:49. > :00:53.will revive his party's flagging fortunes.
:00:54. > :00:56.Could Northern Ireland's political meltdown throw Theresa May's plans
:00:57. > :01:09.I'll ask the Northern Ireland Secretary, James Brokenshire.
:01:10. > :01:11.And, as arguments rage about post-truth politics,
:01:12. > :01:15.Timothy Spall will be here to talk about his new film - an epic battle
:01:16. > :01:21.The reason you don't engage with people you
:01:22. > :01:27.And you might learn some facts, facts which don't suit your
:01:28. > :01:34.Joining me on the sofa this morning Ayesha Hazarika,
:01:35. > :01:36.a former Labour adviser turned stand-up comedian, Paul Waugh,
:01:37. > :01:38.political editor of Huffington Post UK, and Esther McVey,
:01:39. > :01:45.a former Tory MP and a Leave campaigner in the EU referendum,
:01:46. > :01:47.That's all after the news, read for us this morning
:01:48. > :01:54.The Prime Minister Theresa May is to call for an end
:01:55. > :01:56.to the division stirred by last year's EU referendum,
:01:57. > :01:59.when she reveals her most detailed plan yet on how the Government
:02:00. > :02:01.will approach its Brexit negotiations.
:02:02. > :02:04.In a speech this week to ambassadors, she'll outline
:02:05. > :02:07.a commitment to building a Britain more open to the rest of the world.
:02:08. > :02:09.Reports suggest that she will set out plans
:02:10. > :02:12.for a so-called "hard Brexit" - pulling out of the single market
:02:13. > :02:16.and the customs union in order to regain control of immigration.
:02:17. > :02:18.Air passengers arriving in Britain could face "severe
:02:19. > :02:21.disruption" after Brexit, unless there's an increase
:02:22. > :02:23.in Border Force staff, according to the Airport Operators
:02:24. > :02:28.The group says passport checks for EU nationals are likely
:02:29. > :02:30.to become more stringent, causing an increase in queues
:02:31. > :02:36.Here's our home affairs correspondent, Danny Shaw.
:02:37. > :02:39.There are record numbers of travellers at Britain's airports.
:02:40. > :02:44.In 2015, there were 251 million passenger journeys.
:02:45. > :02:47.It's thought last year's figure was even higher.
:02:48. > :02:50.But there's concern that growth in air traffic hasn't been matched
:02:51. > :02:52.by an increase in resources for Border Force,
:02:53. > :03:00.which is responsible for immigration and customs checks.
:03:01. > :03:02.The Airport Operators Association says that's led to longer
:03:03. > :03:04.queues at passport desks, and it's concerned
:03:05. > :03:08.At present, EU travellers use separate channels
:03:09. > :03:18.They tend to be quicker than for passengers
:03:19. > :03:21.But after Brexit, if people from overseas all screened
:03:22. > :03:23.in the same way, the association says overall waiting
:03:24. > :03:28.The Home Office says it will be wrong to set out details of how
:03:29. > :03:31.future immigration controls might work in advance of negotiations
:03:32. > :03:34.with the EU, but the department says Border Force has the capacity
:03:35. > :03:36.to meet passenger demand and maintain security.
:03:37. > :03:46.The US president-elect, donald trump, has hit back at criticism
:03:47. > :03:48.from the respected civil rights campaigner, John Lewis.
:03:49. > :03:51.Mr Lewis, a Democrat Congressman, said he did not consider Mr Trump
:03:52. > :03:54.a legitimate president and would not attend his inauguration.
:03:55. > :03:56.Other Democrat politicians are expected to boycott the event.
:03:57. > :04:00.Donald Trump responded with a tweet, dismissing Mr Lewis as "all
:04:01. > :04:08.A committee of MPs is to hold an inquiry into the planned
:04:09. > :04:10.multi-billion pound restoration of the Palace of Westminster.
:04:11. > :04:15.A report last year recommended that both MPs and peers move out
:04:16. > :04:18.of the buildings for several years while work is carried out -
:04:19. > :04:23.But the Treasury Select Committee is to examine whether the move
:04:24. > :04:27.is necessary and whether the plan offers value for money.
:04:28. > :04:29.A major international conference to try to kick-start
:04:30. > :04:33.the Middle East peace process is being held in Paris.
:04:34. > :04:37.Delegates from 70 countries, including Britain, are expected
:04:38. > :04:39.to reaffirm support for a two-state solution to the
:04:40. > :04:43.Palestinians have welcomed the meeting, but Israel
:04:44. > :05:05.I said earlier that the NHS crisis was all over the papers, so let me
:05:06. > :05:10.demonstrate. The Sunday Mirror. A picture of a little girl sitting on
:05:11. > :05:18.the floor of her award. The Mail on Sunday suggests cutting foreign aid
:05:19. > :05:21.to fund the NHS better. And the Observer - health service in crisis
:05:22. > :05:32.as cancer operations are cancelled. The Sunday Times has gone with a
:05:33. > :05:36.trump- Putin summit. They also say that Theresa May is going to
:05:37. > :05:42.announce on Wednesday that we're unlikely to leave customs union and
:05:43. > :05:49.the single market. The Sunday Telegraph gambles on what they call
:05:50. > :05:57.eight clean Brexit. People always say it is clean, hard, soft, brutal,
:05:58. > :06:00.whatever. Let's start with Brexit. I think the interesting thing about
:06:01. > :06:04.the Sunday Times front page is that it captures how much hardball
:06:05. > :06:07.Theresa May will play next week when she makes this speech on Brexit. It
:06:08. > :06:12.is unusual to our politicians talking about the pound, but here we
:06:13. > :06:22.have Downing Street rethink that there could be a market correction.
:06:23. > :06:26.What might be pound going down? Yes. They are also talking about a
:06:27. > :06:30.transitional deal. If it proves necessary, we have said we will
:06:31. > :06:34.consider time for implementation of new arrangements, which shows it is
:06:35. > :06:41.not about hard or soft Brexit, but more about quick or slow. A bit
:06:42. > :06:44.harder on the bit slower seems to be the message. Ayesha, Theresa May has
:06:45. > :06:48.said all the way through that we have to have control back over
:06:49. > :06:52.immigration, which means leaving the single market, which is no surprise.
:06:53. > :06:57.If she wasn't going to leave the customs union, she would not have
:06:58. > :07:02.set up an entire department for international trade duties. It is no
:07:03. > :07:06.surprise, but still quite a moment. I think she has made her position
:07:07. > :07:12.clear, leaning towards favouring immigration control over membership
:07:13. > :07:16.of the single market. We talked about the adjectives people use. I
:07:17. > :07:21.think that was the signal the country gave, and that is why she is
:07:22. > :07:25.going with it. Don't forget what Philip Hammond said - people didn't
:07:26. > :07:30.vote for Brexit to be worse off. I hope that we will not have a broke
:07:31. > :07:36.Brexit Ouray breadline Brexit at the end of this. Their race and
:07:37. > :07:38.interesting story in a German Sunday newspaper in which Philip Hammond is
:07:39. > :07:43.quoted saying that if we don't get the market access we want, we can
:07:44. > :07:51.have a different economic model, by which he seems to mean slashing
:07:52. > :07:55.corporation tax and having a low tax island outside the continental
:07:56. > :08:01.system. That's the threat. There could be a cliff edge and a real
:08:02. > :08:05.problem. When Theresa May sneezes about hard Brexit, the markets catch
:08:06. > :08:08.a cold, so we will see what the reaction is on Tuesday. What might
:08:09. > :08:14.you have chosen the Sunday express. Yes, made's battleplan. It is living
:08:15. > :08:20.up to the expectations and votes of the British public, who said there
:08:21. > :08:31.was no hard, soft Brexit, just Brexit. These I get so -- these
:08:32. > :08:39.adjectives have been brought about by people who wanted to remain.
:08:40. > :08:44.People wanted control over the law as well. What she is doing is she is
:08:45. > :08:51.delivering as best she can the best deal for the UK. Interestingly, the
:08:52. > :08:56.EU don't recognise the term single market. It's known as the internal
:08:57. > :09:00.market. That in itself says that if we are not an internal part of the
:09:01. > :09:04.system, we won't be part of the single market. We are looking from
:09:05. > :09:08.no tariffs, their best deal for the UK, and to live up to what all those
:09:09. > :09:13.millions of people came out and said we want for the UK. And yet, in
:09:14. > :09:16.terms of what people really voted for, there is an opinion poll that
:09:17. > :09:22.suggests if people think they will be worse off, they don't want to
:09:23. > :09:29.leave. People want everything - to be richer and outside. A lot of it
:09:30. > :09:34.has been recalibrated and blown away. The chief economist for the
:09:35. > :09:39.Bank of England said that we have had the Michael Fish moment. We have
:09:40. > :09:45.seen the FTSE 100 going up, employment going up, the fact that
:09:46. > :09:48.growth was still the best in the G7. The doomsday scenarios are not the
:09:49. > :09:52.case. Yes, there will be an adjustment. Yes, we know that the
:09:53. > :10:00.pound might have to stabilise, or whatever terms seem best. We know
:10:01. > :10:04.there will be a recalibration, but it will be positive for the UK in
:10:05. > :10:07.the end because we are an international country and we have to
:10:08. > :10:11.look to the world. We hope it will be positive, and we have to make it
:10:12. > :10:17.work the best we can. In the same way that you would say to Remainers,
:10:18. > :10:22.accept the result, I think it is acceptable for the other side to
:10:23. > :10:25.understand that people do have anxieties about the prospects for
:10:26. > :10:38.the country. It is not a bad thing to worry. Ayesha, you chose the
:10:39. > :10:45.Observer. Kia Starmer. He wants particular conditions to be met. He
:10:46. > :10:51.wants guarantees given before Article 50 negotiations begin, and
:10:52. > :10:55.certainty for the 2.5 million EU citizens who currently reside in the
:10:56. > :11:01.UK. The Labour Party has also got to get its act together in terms of
:11:02. > :11:04.Brexit and what our position is. Brexit is happening. Immigration is
:11:05. > :11:07.a really important part of the story, and I think we need some
:11:08. > :11:12.clarity from the Labour Party about their position on freedom of
:11:13. > :11:15.movement. Well, thank you for that. We will move onto one of the
:11:16. > :11:21.constituencies which voted 70% to leave EU, Stoke-on-Trent Central,
:11:22. > :11:27.losing its MP, Tristram Hunt. He is leaving to be director of the B and
:11:28. > :11:32.day, a very prestigious job at which he will do well, I'm sure. -- the
:11:33. > :11:37.Victoria and Albert Museum. They face a second difficult by-election
:11:38. > :11:44.in their heartland territories. This has to be a headache for Labour,
:11:45. > :11:48.particularly the Corbynista Labour. There are two by-elections here, two
:11:49. > :11:55.moderate Labour MPs leaving, but as I look at this strategically, on a
:11:56. > :11:59.bigger picture, moderate Labour have never known how they will seize back
:12:00. > :12:03.control of their party as they see it. They tried a leadership bid and
:12:04. > :12:08.it didn't happen. Jeremy Corbyn was voted back with a greater amount.
:12:09. > :12:12.What you will see is, one by one, these moderate Labour MPs will say,
:12:13. > :12:19.we might not survive because boundary changes or deselection
:12:20. > :12:28.could have got rid of Tristram Hunt. This is a form of destabilisation.
:12:29. > :12:33.Bit by bit. You could say, on the other hand, that Ukip and the Tories
:12:34. > :12:37.are almost second equal behind Labour. It is an interesting
:12:38. > :12:41.question for the Tory - do they fight hard and help Labour by
:12:42. > :12:47.keeping Ukip down, or do they stand back and let you could try to win?
:12:48. > :12:52.Ukip came second in this seat, anyway. It is interesting in this
:12:53. > :12:57.article that a lot of people there who are Labour voters, strong labour
:12:58. > :13:04.area, did not vote enthusiastically at all for Labour in 2015. Only a
:13:05. > :13:09.49.9% turnout. They said they just didn't want to vote for the Tories.
:13:10. > :13:13.He has been described as the least popular MP in the House of Commons
:13:14. > :13:18.on the basis of the number of people who actually voted for him. I would
:13:19. > :13:22.have Ukip in second place, who would be the main threat here. Paul not
:13:23. > :13:28.all, the leader, I think it would be a good seat for him to go for. That
:13:29. > :13:32.would be a heck of a story if he took it. If I was Paul Nuttall, that
:13:33. > :13:37.is a seat I would be going for, where I would put all my ammunition.
:13:38. > :13:42.That could be a possible winner and a terrible loss for Labour. You said
:13:43. > :13:46.just now that this could happen again and again, and Paul, you have
:13:47. > :13:51.a story in the Sunday Times suggesting the same thing, albeit a
:13:52. > :14:00.bit thin on detail. MPs are ready to free Corbyn. -- to flee Corbyn.
:14:01. > :14:07.There may be a maximum of two you are ready to walk. What is
:14:08. > :14:10.interesting is, Jeremy Corbyn is going to address the Parliamentary
:14:11. > :14:15.Labour Party tomorrow night to start of the New Year, his new message,
:14:16. > :14:20.and it will be interesting to see the mood. A year ago, Monday night
:14:21. > :14:25.was fight night. Labour MPs were always having a pop at Jeremy
:14:26. > :14:30.Corbyn. The mood has changed. And don't forget, Tristram Hunt and
:14:31. > :14:34.Jamie Reid, who have both decided to leave Westminster, have left on good
:14:35. > :14:44.terms. They are not having a pop at Jeremy Corbyn. Why? They don't want
:14:45. > :14:50.to be blamed for the poor state of -- poor state of the party in the
:14:51. > :14:57.polls. Ayesha, the other big story of the day - the NHS, absolutely
:14:58. > :14:59.everywhere. Is this a real crisis? We read the stuff week after week,
:15:00. > :15:08.month after month. I think it is a crisis, there is a
:15:09. > :15:12.very powerful picture on the Sunday Mirror of a girl who has been lying
:15:13. > :15:17.on the floor for eight hours. On the inside pages we have Jonathan
:15:18. > :15:21.Ashridge, the Labour health spokesperson saying there is a
:15:22. > :15:24.crisis and the Prime Minister is denying it. The health service is
:15:25. > :15:29.always stretched, no matter how much money you put into it there is
:15:30. > :15:37.always issues, but there are some things we have to look at. We have
:15:38. > :15:39.got a massive problem, we need more funding in the NHS. But the question
:15:40. > :15:43.is how and the Mail on Sunday suggests taking money from the
:15:44. > :15:47.foreign aid budget, but there's an interesting poll that the
:15:48. > :15:53.independence carried out suggesting that if... I will let you tell. Luck
:15:54. > :15:57.there is bad news and good news for the Labour Party, Theresa May and
:15:58. > :16:02.Tories will do a better job than Labour with the NHS this winter.
:16:03. > :16:07.More people think Theresa May can handle the winter crisis better than
:16:08. > :16:11.Labour. Given that Labour but all their political chips on this
:16:12. > :16:17.agenda, that is a blow. For to 7% agree with the Red Cross that there
:16:18. > :16:23.is a humanitarian crisis but opposition is about coming up...
:16:24. > :16:26.The majority of people say that if we had an extra tax specifically for
:16:27. > :16:32.the NHS, they would pay more tax to save the NHS. I think different
:16:33. > :16:36.people have said they choose for it to be paid for in different ways but
:16:37. > :16:43.what you have seen is that the budget has gone up from
:16:44. > :16:49.100,000,000,020 ten, now 116, will go up to 129 billion by 2020 so how
:16:50. > :16:52.are we best to pay for this? Is it going to be because people are
:16:53. > :16:54.realistic, they know there's only a certain amount of money in the
:16:55. > :17:12.budget, and is going to now come from foreign because we all believe
:17:13. > :17:15.we have got to see a better service. I will be talking about this with
:17:16. > :17:18.Jeremy Corbyn in the moment. I want to talk about your Trump story
:17:19. > :17:20.before we finish. Trump has gone to war with a man called John Lewis, a
:17:21. > :17:23.very prominent black activist in America who has said I don't think
:17:24. > :17:26.she is fit to be president and has really attacked him. As we look
:17:27. > :17:31.ahead to the inauguration, we are all agog to see it but we mustn't
:17:32. > :17:37.underestimate how worried people are in America about the clock being
:17:38. > :17:40.turned back on things like racial inequality, civil Liberties, human
:17:41. > :17:48.rights, women's rights, so that is something that people are very
:17:49. > :17:53.worried about. I really hope that he doesn't... You know, he is a man
:17:54. > :18:00.with a big ego and a very thin skin and I hope... Interesting report.
:18:01. > :18:05.There is a lot more about Donald Trump in the Spy and the rest of the
:18:06. > :18:08.papers. Well, a little snow on the ground -
:18:09. > :18:11.mere spits and spats in London - proper old-fashioned
:18:12. > :18:12.snow further north. Is there any possibility that we're
:18:13. > :18:15.going to see the really serious weather that has
:18:16. > :18:24.plagued the continent? No is the long and short of it, it
:18:25. > :18:28.will be mild across the country and we've been using a lot of
:18:29. > :18:35.alliteration to describe the weather, dull, damp and drizzly, and
:18:36. > :18:39.this picture is fairly indicative of what's going on across the country.
:18:40. > :18:48.Outbreaks of showery rain, and even when that's clears away it will stay
:18:49. > :18:53.dull and drizzly for many. Double digit out to the west but it stays
:18:54. > :18:58.cold in east Anglia, and that could lead to some frost and patchy fog
:18:59. > :19:03.here through the night, but we do it all again elsewhere. More cloud,
:19:04. > :19:08.another weather front bringing in some more rain. That will continue
:19:09. > :19:13.to drift steadily eastwards. The temperature is not falling far at
:19:14. > :19:16.all in the west, 7 degrees is the minimum, still chilly in East Anglia
:19:17. > :19:21.and bad weather front sits through the spine of the country tomorrow
:19:22. > :19:26.with outbreaks of drizzly rain. Sandwiched either side, some
:19:27. > :19:30.brighter weather, wet weather into the extreme north-west. But look at
:19:31. > :19:35.the temperatures again, so the weather again, unlike your
:19:36. > :19:38.programme, Andrew, is looking a bit dreary.
:19:39. > :19:42.That's very kind of you and I see Northern Ireland is relatively
:19:43. > :19:43.bright and dried, which is lovely because there is another crisis
:19:44. > :19:44.there. The Northern Ireland Assembly
:19:45. > :19:47.is on the edge of collapse after the resignation last week
:19:48. > :19:49.of the Deputy First Minister, Time is running out before
:19:50. > :19:52.the Northern Ireland Secretary, James Brokenshire, must call
:19:53. > :19:54.an emergency snap election, but that means Northern Ireland
:19:55. > :19:56.might lose its voice during the crucial Brexit period,
:19:57. > :20:07.and that might even be illegal. Let's go through this, one by one.
:20:08. > :20:13.You have a legal obligation if the Sinn Fein people don't put up a new
:20:14. > :20:17.Deputy First Minister, you call an election, don't you? That's right,
:20:18. > :20:20.last week Martin McGuinness resigned as Deputy First Minister and that
:20:21. > :20:27.means if the replacement is not put in place by five o'clock tomorrow
:20:28. > :20:29.evening, it is incumbent upon me as Secretary of State to call an
:20:30. > :20:33.election within a reasonable period of time. What we are seeking to do
:20:34. > :20:37.is work with the parties to see if we can bring them together to avoid
:20:38. > :20:44.that from taking place. At the moment there is no indication
:20:45. > :20:48.another replacement will be offered. You are going over there, you have
:20:49. > :20:53.until five o'clock tomorrow, do you wait until then to call an election?
:20:54. > :20:57.Sinn Fein have indicated they are not intending to put a replacement
:20:58. > :21:01.forward. We've been discussing, and I've had extensive discussions with
:21:02. > :21:05.all of the parties over the last few days, and going straight back to
:21:06. > :21:09.Belfast after this programme to continue those discussions. But the
:21:10. > :21:12.clear indications, the increasing likelihood is that we are moving
:21:13. > :21:17.towards an election. Obviously I will be considering the position at
:21:18. > :21:20.that point in time. My statutory responsibility is to call an
:21:21. > :21:23.election but that means there has to be an election campaign of 25
:21:24. > :21:30.working days for the campaign itself. So unless you delay it for a
:21:31. > :21:33.very long time, this will carry on right the way through the period
:21:34. > :21:37.when we were supposed to be discussing Brexit and that means
:21:38. > :21:39.there will be no Northern Ireland voice in those discussions, which
:21:40. > :21:43.according to the court case in London might even be illegal. It's
:21:44. > :21:47.important to understand there's already been discussions with the
:21:48. > :21:51.Northern Ireland executive, we have a joint ministerial committee. The
:21:52. > :21:56.work I've been doing, reaching out to communities and business in
:21:57. > :21:59.Northern Ireland, but we still have ministers in place as well. No First
:22:00. > :22:03.Minister, no Deputy First Minister, it is very hard for Northern Ireland
:22:04. > :22:08.to give its voice properly and this is the crucial point of the Brexit
:22:09. > :22:13.period coming up. This is when they need to be engaged. I think they
:22:14. > :22:19.have been engaged and we will continue to invite the executive.
:22:20. > :22:23.Ministers stay in place and we have structures that ensure people are
:22:24. > :22:27.invited so that will continue, and indeed the work I do as Secretary of
:22:28. > :22:30.State in talking to all of the different players and partners in
:22:31. > :22:35.Northern Ireland, getting their feedback. That has given us already
:22:36. > :22:39.a good indication as to the issues that really matter and how we are
:22:40. > :22:43.determined to get the best possible outcome. Theresa May made it very
:22:44. > :22:48.clear that Northern Ireland, like Scotland, must be engaged in these
:22:49. > :22:51.negotiations at the critical period. If Northern Ireland is in the middle
:22:52. > :22:57.of a general election throughout that period, they cannot be properly
:22:58. > :23:02.engaged, can they? We have had that engagement and we will continue to
:23:03. > :23:05.take those steps. We are not delaying the timetable, we remain
:23:06. > :23:10.committed to triggering Article 50 by no later than the end of March
:23:11. > :23:14.and nothing changes that. We will continue to work, and my engagement
:23:15. > :23:18.is about bringing people together, bringing the parties together to
:23:19. > :23:24.ensure there is in that sense of division appearing. This is a
:23:25. > :23:27.complex crisis but if after the election there is no resolution, the
:23:28. > :23:33.parties still can't work together, what happens next? I'm not thinking
:23:34. > :23:39.about that. My absolute focus is on how we bring the parties together.
:23:40. > :23:42.You are right, there is a relatively short period of time after the
:23:43. > :23:48.election, it is about three weeks but we have to soon as it -- to seek
:23:49. > :23:53.an executive being formed. The simple alternative would be to call
:23:54. > :23:57.another election but I'm focused on maintaining the institutions. This
:23:58. > :24:00.is really significant, it is important we are working together to
:24:01. > :24:04.see people are focused on the great opportunities for Northern Ireland,
:24:05. > :24:08.the real benefit icy day in and day out and how we need to make sure
:24:09. > :24:13.there is good communication that continues. But as I say, the reality
:24:14. > :24:19.is that we are moving towards an election, and how we continue to see
:24:20. > :24:23.people are focused and make sure communication is maintained. If that
:24:24. > :24:26.election produces another failed results, is there any possibility
:24:27. > :24:30.the British government would look towards a joint authority with the
:24:31. > :24:34.Irish government over Northern Ireland? To be absolutely straight,
:24:35. > :24:41.I'm not contemplating alternatives to devolved government in Northern
:24:42. > :24:45.Ireland. Really? Given that it might happen very soon? My responsibility
:24:46. > :24:49.is to see that we are working with each of the parties, that we're not
:24:50. > :24:53.looking at greater division. My concern is that an election campaign
:24:54. > :25:00.will be divisive and lead to greater distance between the parties at the
:25:01. > :25:04.end that. It is that work therefore that I'm doing and will continue to
:25:05. > :25:08.do. I would really encourage the parties themselves to think about
:25:09. > :25:12.these big issues on how they conduct that campaign and how we are able to
:25:13. > :25:15.build things back together once it is concluded. We have been talking
:25:16. > :25:19.about what kind of country we will be after Brexit this morning and
:25:20. > :25:23.Northern Ireland is very much part of that country. There's been a
:25:24. > :25:27.suggestion from Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, that if we are forced
:25:28. > :25:31.out of access from the European markets we could slash corporation
:25:32. > :25:35.tax and become very different kind of economy, is that something you
:25:36. > :25:39.recognise? In Northern Ireland we have said we would like to see the
:25:40. > :25:44.devolution of corporation tax, and the executive has indicated it would
:25:45. > :25:50.like to see a marrying of corporation tax rates across
:25:51. > :25:52.Northern island of 12.5%. We have contemplated how you devolve
:25:53. > :25:57.corporation tax and benefits, but I wouldn't want to speculate more
:25:58. > :26:01.broadly. We could be a more free trading, lower corporation tax
:26:02. > :26:06.economy. The Prime Minister has always been clear that she wants the
:26:07. > :26:10.UK to be an open, outward looking trading nation. That is that
:26:11. > :26:15.positive view that we have for the UK moving forward and how best to
:26:16. > :26:19.achieve that, and obviously ensuring UK companies continue to have the
:26:20. > :26:22.best access to the ability to trade and operate within the European
:26:23. > :26:26.Union. But when you read this morning that the UK will be outside
:26:27. > :26:32.the single market and outside the customs union, you are not surprised
:26:33. > :26:36.by that, are you? I'm not going to speculate about what the Prime
:26:37. > :26:41.Minister will say on Tuesday. But what she has been clear about is
:26:42. > :26:46.that we are leaving the European Union. That is how we then negotiate
:26:47. > :26:49.and look at our future. It is that open approach, that global Britain
:26:50. > :26:53.message she will be giving on Tuesday as to how we set that
:26:54. > :27:00.forward. How can we possibly stay inside the single market and control
:27:01. > :27:05.migration? We can't. I don't see this as a binary choice. We have a
:27:06. > :27:08.very clear approach in seeking to achieve that open approach for
:27:09. > :27:17.business but also that very stark message that I do take, that the
:27:18. > :27:19.Government takes from the EU referendum that free movement as it
:27:20. > :27:23.exists today cannot continue into the future. If that is the case, we
:27:24. > :27:28.cannot be inside the single market. I don't accept there is this binary
:27:29. > :27:32.choice, this presentation of different alternatives. Equally this
:27:33. > :27:36.language of hard and soft Brexit that I don't recognise. We are going
:27:37. > :27:41.into the negotiations to get the best possible deal and set out the
:27:42. > :27:45.future for our country in a positive way between friends, allies and
:27:46. > :27:52.neighbours. In your view we could stay inside the single market? It is
:27:53. > :27:56.not about staying inside, and how we are leaving the European Union and
:27:57. > :28:03.therefore how you negotiate that new relationship, that new approach. We
:28:04. > :28:08.are in it or outside it so it is a binary choice. There are so many
:28:09. > :28:12.different aspects to this. There are different parts, and we are
:28:13. > :28:16.analysing very closely and carefully. The Prime Minister will
:28:17. > :28:20.be setting out more of the detail, more ambitions, more of what we seek
:28:21. > :28:24.is the future of our country outside the European Union but we are still
:28:25. > :28:28.being part of Europe. The security arrangements we have in place that
:28:29. > :28:33.we want to see continuing into the future, that matter so much for our
:28:34. > :28:37.European partners as much as for ourselves. I don't see it in these
:28:38. > :28:42.stark terms and we should approach the negotiation with confidence and
:28:43. > :28:45.optimism. James Brokenshire, thank you for talking to us.
:28:46. > :28:47.And for news of what's coming up straight after this programme,
:28:48. > :28:51.Join us from Brunel University of London at ten, when we'll be
:28:52. > :28:53.asking just one big question: Is digital media
:28:54. > :28:56.We've gathered together stars of old media and new, writers,
:28:57. > :28:58.online warriors, think tank heavyweights,
:28:59. > :28:59.learned academics, political activists,
:29:00. > :29:01.and an essential fact checker, to spat and spar with each other.
:29:02. > :29:09.Now, if there's one political phrase that worked its way
:29:10. > :29:11.into our heads last year, it's post-truth politics.
:29:12. > :29:14.What do you do, how do you act when big lies are gaining currency?
:29:15. > :29:18.That's at the heart of a new film, Denial, about the renegade British
:29:19. > :29:19.historian David Irving, accused of denying
:29:20. > :29:24.It stars Rachel Weisz as a crusading American academic
:29:25. > :29:29.In the past few years he's played several larger-than-life figures,
:29:30. > :29:31.from Mike Leigh's "Mr Turner", to Winston Churchill,
:29:32. > :29:37.I'm delighted to say that Timothy Spall is here
:29:38. > :29:39.as himself this morning, but before we talk, here's
:29:40. > :29:45.a clip from "Denial", with David Irving in full flood.
:29:46. > :29:51.let me reveal something to you, Professor.
:29:52. > :29:56.I am that David Irving about whom you have been so rude.
:29:57. > :29:59.Yes, yes, I am he, and it puzzles me that you think yourself
:30:00. > :30:02.qualified to attack me, given that I have 30 years
:30:03. > :30:07.The reason you don't engage with people you disagree
:30:08. > :30:14.Facts, Miss Lipstadt, which don't suit your opinions.
:30:15. > :30:30.Facts. Welcome. This is a film about a trial, and we know the result,
:30:31. > :30:33.which is that David Irving was destroyed, but nonetheless, if he
:30:34. > :30:42.hadn't been, what would have happened? What was at stake, do you
:30:43. > :30:47.think? It seems to me that the whole facts about the Holocaust and the
:30:48. > :30:52.extent of the extermination, this terrible human tragedy, would have
:30:53. > :30:57.been called into question. People would have been going around now
:30:58. > :31:01.saying, it didn't really happen? I suppose that would be a danger. It
:31:02. > :31:14.is very difficult to say what would be the consequences of that. So,
:31:15. > :31:18.yes, I mean, he took the case and it was found against him. The
:31:19. > :31:24.understanding of what happened stands. Is it strange to play
:31:25. > :31:28.someone who is still alive and has watched the film - there was an
:31:29. > :31:38.interview with him in the papers today - someone who denies Hitler
:31:39. > :31:43.run the Holocaust. Is it strange playing someone like that, knowing
:31:44. > :31:50.he is watching? The challenge wasn't lost on me, to say the least. And I
:31:51. > :31:56.did think about it long and hard. Whether you are playing a hero or a
:31:57. > :32:02.villain, or a mixture of both, as an actor, you have a real duty to play
:32:03. > :32:07.that person from that person's point of view. Get inside them as much as
:32:08. > :32:11.possible. Absolutely, and to empathise rather than sympathise.
:32:12. > :32:16.The character is isolated in the movie, and isolated in his views,
:32:17. > :32:20.which does have its effects. Watching it, you don't look very
:32:21. > :32:25.much like David Irving. How much is it the voice? You have an
:32:26. > :32:29.extraordinarily resonant voice with Irving, which is unlike anyone
:32:30. > :32:34.else's. The same with Ian Paisley. How much is getting the voice
:32:35. > :32:37.essential to getting the character? When you look at the physical
:32:38. > :32:44.attributes, and the sound, you look at that for a template. People
:32:45. > :32:49.behave and they are the product of how they are inside, so you look at
:32:50. > :32:54.the carapace and what the human being is, and sort out where that
:32:55. > :32:59.has come from psychologically. We were just talking about Northern
:33:00. > :33:03.Ireland, and we must see you playing Eason Paisley. The clip we will show
:33:04. > :33:05.ways you trying to persuade a guy in a petrol station to give you money
:33:06. > :33:06.from a credit card. You have the power to overrule that
:33:07. > :33:09.machine and process his payment. I'm afraid I can't
:33:10. > :33:17.fight authorisation. I'm afraid I can't
:33:18. > :33:19.without authorisation. Jesus went into the temple of God
:33:20. > :33:22.and cast out them that sold He overthrew the tables of the money
:33:23. > :33:26.changers and the seats of them who sold doves and said unto them,
:33:27. > :33:29."My house shall be called the house of prayer, yet ye have made
:33:30. > :33:46.it a den of thieves!" Great teeth! That was a film about
:33:47. > :33:49.the friendship between him and Martin McGuinness. Of all the
:33:50. > :33:53.characters you have been playing recently, you got the biggest
:33:54. > :33:57.applause for Turner. When you see a script, do you look at it and say,
:33:58. > :34:01.this is a big character, I can get myself inside this? How do you
:34:02. > :34:05.approach what you turn down on what you pick up? With Turner, the
:34:06. > :34:11.character was produced in the making of the film. That is how Mike Leigh
:34:12. > :34:14.works. It took two all three years to put together. When you look at
:34:15. > :34:19.the Scripps, you ask the question, is this a human being? Does it have
:34:20. > :34:24.the possibility to be explored in all of its many facets? Is he a true
:34:25. > :34:29.example of how people really behave? And if he is challenging, how can I
:34:30. > :34:34.bring as much humanity underneath that as to whether he is a villain
:34:35. > :34:39.or a hero? I said at the beginning that this was partly about
:34:40. > :34:44.post-truth politics - to what extent do you think this film is a morality
:34:45. > :34:48.tale? We all read stuff on the internet and think, that's not true.
:34:49. > :34:51.Is the message of this story, when something is not true, we all have a
:34:52. > :34:58.moral obligation to stand up and say so and take on people who deny the
:34:59. > :35:02.reality is? I don't fully understand what post-truth means, but what I do
:35:03. > :35:06.know is that in a world that has never had more information than we
:35:07. > :35:11.can get now, it is so much more difficult to get into the facts.
:35:12. > :35:14.Information and facts are different things. Sometimes, when you have
:35:15. > :35:22.something that is a subject that needs to be, that relies on facts,
:35:23. > :35:27.sometimes the old structures, like the law, and in this film, it looks
:35:28. > :35:31.slightly Dickensian, I think in a modern world, it appears that the
:35:32. > :35:35.old establishment ways of seeking the truth might be the way to go.
:35:36. > :35:42.Gets an interesting message. It's a great film. Thank you, Tim Spall,
:35:43. > :35:49.for coming in to speak to us. Denial opens on the 27th of January.
:35:50. > :35:51.Coming up later this morning: the Sunday Politics with Andrew Neil.
:35:52. > :35:54.He'll be speaking to the Lib Dem leader Tim Farron about Brexit,
:35:55. > :35:56.Max Mosley, campaigner for press regulation, and the TV presenter
:35:57. > :36:02.Jeremy Corbyn sounded just a bit like Donald Trump
:36:03. > :36:05.in his speech this weekend - the system is rigged and stitched up
:36:06. > :36:07.against the majority and there needs to be a political uprising
:36:08. > :36:12.But his profile in the media could not be worse,
:36:13. > :36:13.and his party's polling is, frankly, dire.
:36:14. > :36:16.Now, with Theresa May seemingly about to confirm that we will leave
:36:17. > :36:18.the European single market, there's no shortage
:36:19. > :36:31.Can I start with that one? Yellow mat good morning. How are you? Very
:36:32. > :36:35.well, thank you. Theresa May will say that we should leave the single
:36:36. > :36:39.market and the customs union - what is your reaction as Leader of the
:36:40. > :36:42.Opposition? She seems to be heading in the direction of a bargain
:36:43. > :36:48.basement economy on the shores of Europe, with low corporate taxation,
:36:49. > :36:51.where we will lose access to half our export markets. It seems an
:36:52. > :36:56.extremely risky strategy and I think there needs to be more discussion,
:36:57. > :36:58.consultation, and recognise that there is a close economic
:36:59. > :37:02.cooperation with Europe that will have to continue when we are outside
:37:03. > :37:06.the EU. And you have read this morning that Philip Hammond has
:37:07. > :37:11.suggested or implied that if we don't get access to those markets,
:37:12. > :37:16.we could cut corporation tax in this country quite dramatically and be a
:37:17. > :37:23.low tax alternative to the EU. It seems to be a threat, saying, if you
:37:24. > :37:27.don't give us what we want, we will become this strange entity on the
:37:28. > :37:35.shores of Europe with low levels of corporate taxation, designed to
:37:36. > :37:39.undermine the effect of the EU. It seems a recipe for a trade war with
:37:40. > :37:44.Europe, which isn't a sensible way forward. So, trade war, a risky
:37:45. > :37:49.option, and at bargain basement economy. This is all triggered by
:37:50. > :37:54.Article 50, which Labour will vote for. The referendum voted to leave
:37:55. > :37:58.the EU. That, Parliament has to live with and work around, so we won't
:37:59. > :38:02.plot Article 50, but we will make the point very clearly in the run-up
:38:03. > :38:08.to the vote about the question of access to European markets, and of
:38:09. > :38:10.course, there will have to be cooperation on things like
:38:11. > :38:15.environmental regulation, consumer rights, all those operations with --
:38:16. > :38:20.all those issues where we have to cooperate. You know now that she's
:38:21. > :38:25.heading for a version of Brexit that is disastrous... It has been
:38:26. > :38:31.trialled this morning about a speech she is yet to give. So you don't
:38:32. > :38:34.believe it? I'm not saying that, but sometimes the media frenzy can get
:38:35. > :38:39.slightly ahead of the facts. We will find out in the middle of the week.
:38:40. > :38:44.If that is the case, that taking us to a version of Brexit that you
:38:45. > :38:50.think is disastrous, why are you saying, there is the cliff edge,
:38:51. > :38:53.let's march towards it? We're not saying that. Parliament voted to
:38:54. > :38:57.have a referendum, a decision was made, and we have to work around
:38:58. > :39:02.that. The question is how the negotiations are conducted and what
:39:03. > :39:06.the destination is. That is why I have reached out to colleagues
:39:07. > :39:10.across Europe, and we're having a large conference of Socialist
:39:11. > :39:14.parties across Europe in order to build alliances. Remember, the
:39:15. > :39:19.Brexit vote is not one-off thing. It has to be agreed by 27 parliaments,
:39:20. > :39:24.agreed by the European Parliament. There is a long way to go. You think
:39:25. > :39:29.European countries could block the version of Brexit Theresa May wants?
:39:30. > :39:34.I think many European countries would want to maintain links between
:39:35. > :39:38.universities in their country and Britain, maintain that trade
:39:39. > :39:42.relationship. An awful lot of industries - think of the big names
:39:43. > :39:50.in Britain, Rolls-Royce, Airbus and so on - and they rely on a British
:39:51. > :39:53.cooperation. Is there anyway at all after Article 50 triggered that you
:39:54. > :39:59.think you can get your version of Brexit through the House of Commons?
:40:00. > :40:02.It will have to keep coming back to the House of Commons, and we will
:40:03. > :40:06.make sure it does. I know there is a court case is going on at the
:40:07. > :40:09.moment. We will keep pressing the Government on this. And there are
:40:10. > :40:13.MPs in all parties who must be concerned about the future of
:40:14. > :40:17.industries in the constituencies, about future trade relationships we
:40:18. > :40:20.will have, and also, what kind of trade arrangements we will have with
:40:21. > :40:31.the rest of the world in the future. If we are part of the customs union,
:40:32. > :40:34.then trade is done via that. If we are not, we have to start making our
:40:35. > :40:36.own trade arrangements, which will be the first time Britain has done
:40:37. > :40:39.that in 40 years. Forgive the cliche, but is there a majority in
:40:40. > :40:44.the House of Commons, if Labour wants with other parties, for soft
:40:45. > :40:46.Brexit? The majority of people in the House of Commons are very
:40:47. > :40:51.concerned about the implications of our Brexit that leads us into the
:40:52. > :40:54.Philip Hammond area of bargain basement on the shores of Europe
:40:55. > :40:59.economy. There are people who are worried, on the points I've made,
:41:00. > :41:04.about universities and education, and about the practicalities of it
:41:05. > :41:13.all. Clearly, air pollution is an issue, so was management of this
:41:14. > :41:19.cease and fishing -- of our seas. It sounds unlikely, but you made a
:41:20. > :41:25.speech this week which has a whiff of Donald Trump about it, I whiff of
:41:26. > :41:33.politician and politics are rigged against the ordinary Joe. Is it the
:41:34. > :41:40.hair? It needs to change. I have got my own. A quote: The people who run
:41:41. > :41:44.Britain had been taking the people for a ride and have stitched up our
:41:45. > :41:50.political system to protect the power. It is a big charge - what do
:41:51. > :41:56.you mean by it? The wealthy in this country out sure and outsource their
:41:57. > :42:00.profits into tax havens. We have been privatising services for a very
:42:01. > :42:03.long time. We have a growing gap between the richest and poorest, and
:42:04. > :42:10.we have a political system that leaves an awful lot of people
:42:11. > :42:16.behind. That, surely, was one of the messages in the EU referendum
:42:17. > :42:21.campaign, and in some areas, in the low participation in elections. You
:42:22. > :42:26.said the political system itself is rigged or stitched up - what is it
:42:27. > :42:30.about the system that is stitched up? We have a House of Lords that is
:42:31. > :42:33.dominated by a small number of people from London and the
:42:34. > :42:39.south-east. Would you get rid of it? I want unelected second chamber that
:42:40. > :42:42.is representative of all nations and regions in the United Kingdom. It is
:42:43. > :42:47.very important. It should have an electoral mandate. Abolition of the
:42:48. > :42:55.House of Lords and its replacement by our elected -- by an elected
:42:56. > :43:00.second chamber? Yes. It is not a new idea. It has been debated for a long
:43:01. > :43:06.time. It is not in a manifesto of yours. I would like to get there by
:43:07. > :43:10.2020. An interesting speech was made on Friday about the need for more
:43:11. > :43:15.political representation of the north of England. Absolutely. We
:43:16. > :43:19.will continue these discussions in Scotland on Friday. We are setting
:43:20. > :43:23.up a constitutional convention so that whenever the general election
:43:24. > :43:30.is, there will be some degree of consensus about the kind of
:43:31. > :43:32.constitutional structures we are looking for. On that, if I might. A
:43:33. > :43:35.constitutional convention in Scotland led to the Scottish
:43:36. > :43:38.assembly, which led to the Scottish parliament. Would you like to see
:43:39. > :43:42.the same process in the North of England? Should there be a North of
:43:43. > :43:47.England Parliament? I think there is an appetite for a stronger form of
:43:48. > :43:50.regional Government in Britain, an electoral mandate to do that, but
:43:51. > :43:57.also the levels of investment have got to be shared out fairly across
:43:58. > :44:03.the country, and they are not. ?1900 per year is spent in the south-east
:44:04. > :44:08.of inward per year, ?300 in the north-east. That's not fair. The
:44:09. > :44:12.North is not getting a fair deal, and it might need a Parliament that
:44:13. > :44:16.the result? It could be stronger local Government, but there has to
:44:17. > :44:20.be much greater emphasis on the disparity between regions in
:44:21. > :44:24.Britain, the disparity between investment. There also has to be an
:44:25. > :44:28.issue, surely, about the gap between the richest and poorest and the
:44:29. > :44:34.amount of money that disappears into tax havens. Do you think you get a
:44:35. > :44:35.fair ride in the media, and is media ownership and issue? I don't think
:44:36. > :44:53.the media are fair, in many ways,
:44:54. > :44:55.particularly towards the Labour Party. An analysis done over the
:44:56. > :44:58.first year since the general election showed that over 80% of the
:44:59. > :45:04.print media was actively hostile to the Labour Party.
:45:05. > :45:11.We need to remove the levels of concentration of ownership in
:45:12. > :45:24.certain organisations. You would attack the Rupert Murdoch group...
:45:25. > :45:30.Rupert Murdoch taking over Sky completely for example is a problem.
:45:31. > :45:36.We would also explore the role of the BBC is an organisation that is
:45:37. > :45:42.supposed to educate, entertain and inform. We have been talking about
:45:43. > :45:46.the NHS and the crisis, and you say in terms of the Labour Party would
:45:47. > :45:50.find a long-term funding solution for the NHS, but that means nothing
:45:51. > :45:55.unless you tell us what it is and we have seen a poll in today's's papers
:45:56. > :45:59.saying that if people were told the specific hypothecated tax would go
:46:00. > :46:05.to the NHS, the majority would support that. Would you go down that
:46:06. > :46:11.route? I'm not generally in favour of hypothecated tax but obviously
:46:12. > :46:16.the party would consider and look at it. The reality is over the next
:46:17. > :46:21.four years there's going to be ?70 billion less than could be achieved
:46:22. > :46:27.because of cuts in corporate taxation and cuts in the top rate of
:46:28. > :46:34.taxation. Is that the kind figure the NHS needs over the next four
:46:35. > :46:38.years? The crisis in A departments is the symptom, not the cause of the
:46:39. > :46:43.crisis. I spent Friday afternoon talking to a group of GPs and what
:46:44. > :46:48.they go through. A ten minute appointment with a GP actually ends
:46:49. > :46:54.up with half an hour to an hour's work for GB doing other things as a
:46:55. > :46:59.result. It is too simple to attack GPs and very unfair. How much more
:47:00. > :47:02.does the NHS needs and how would you pay for it? We would stop the cuts
:47:03. > :47:08.that have taken place but above all we would put more money into social
:47:09. > :47:15.care, which needs several billion pounds more very quickly. ?2 billion
:47:16. > :47:20.as a figure being put by a number of people. The rise in council tax to
:47:21. > :47:25.pay for social care only raises 400 million, rather less than that, so
:47:26. > :47:29.you have to raise it by ending the corporate tax cuts. This is a really
:47:30. > :47:33.important moment in the history of the NHS. As long as I remember
:47:34. > :47:37.governments have been saying we have given the NHS enough money and
:47:38. > :47:42.oppositions have been saying no you haven't, but this is a moment when
:47:43. > :47:45.we have to think about the future of the NHS. We have said long-term
:47:46. > :47:50.funding solution, can I put it to you that it can be, should be, and
:47:51. > :47:55.under you would be a specific tax paid for by everybody to put the NHS
:47:56. > :48:00.into a good place and keep it there? We would guarantee the funding.
:48:01. > :48:04.Whether we would have a specific tax, I doubt, but I would be
:48:05. > :48:09.prepared to discuss it. If you go down the road of hypothecated
:48:10. > :48:13.taxation, then you do it for every other service. That's an issue, but
:48:14. > :48:18.I would just say this, Labour founded the NHS and it's a point of
:48:19. > :48:23.principle in our society. It is a human rights get health care at the
:48:24. > :48:28.point of need. We have a lack of social care, and underfunding of the
:48:29. > :48:32.mental health service is putting a strain on A departments. The Prime
:48:33. > :48:37.Minister blames the GPs for this. Let's look at the overall issue of
:48:38. > :48:41.the lack of funding of the needs of often very vulnerable people. I
:48:42. > :48:45.thought you had already allocated the corporation tax money for
:48:46. > :48:50.education, you cannot allocate it twice. I gave you the figure, ?70
:48:51. > :48:54.billion that will be reduced from public income over the next four
:48:55. > :49:00.years because of the long-term effects of the cuts in corporation
:49:01. > :49:05.tax and profits tax. Why is it that when they are asked, do you trust
:49:06. > :49:10.Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party or Theresa May and the Tories to
:49:11. > :49:14.deal with the NHS crisis, more people back Theresa May and the
:49:15. > :49:21.Tories? That's disastrous for you. The more that people see the reality
:49:22. > :49:25.of the underfunding, the privatising of services, the outsourcing of NHS
:49:26. > :49:29.facilities, the more and more disappointed and angry they will get
:49:30. > :49:35.and they will understand the case we are making. We need to say
:49:36. > :49:38.centrestage, the NHS is about our mindset, our security, we are not
:49:39. > :49:42.frightened of getting ill in this country because we cannot afford to
:49:43. > :49:48.pay for it. In the USA, the first question you ask someone who is ill
:49:49. > :49:52.is what kind of health care insurance have you got? You have a
:49:53. > :49:59.bye election coming up in Stoke-on-Trent Central, that was a
:50:00. > :50:04.core Labour constituency. It was also a constituency which voted 70%
:50:05. > :50:08.to leave the EU, heavily on the immigration issue, and your policy
:50:09. > :50:11.on immigration is something that most people simply don't understand.
:50:12. > :50:14.You have said both that you are in favour of managed controlling
:50:15. > :50:19.immigration and also that you don't rule out changing it, it is very
:50:20. > :50:25.unclear what you really think. Do you think immigration in this
:50:26. > :50:28.country should come down? I want the end of exploitation of people, the
:50:29. > :50:33.undercutting and destruction of working conditions by the bringing
:50:34. > :50:36.in wholesale of workforces to destroy existing conditions, and
:50:37. > :50:40.also I would suggest that we think seriously about the contribution
:50:41. > :50:45.that migrant workers have made to this country in the NHS, in
:50:46. > :50:49.transport and education. And at this very moment the NHS is recruiting
:50:50. > :50:55.doctors all over Europe to try to fill the gap caused by the age
:50:56. > :51:00.profile of our existing GPs. Yes, we do need migrant workers in this
:51:01. > :51:05.country. Even if you put to one side the gang masters and recruitment
:51:06. > :51:08.going on in Poland, 82,000 from the EU came to this country without a
:51:09. > :51:13.job on their own last year to look for work because they thought they
:51:14. > :51:18.would have a better life. Is that too many? Would you like to see
:51:19. > :51:25.fewer such people? It will be part of the negotiations of access to
:51:26. > :51:27.Europe, if we have access to the single market there will be an issue
:51:28. > :51:31.surrounding that. I have been talking about ending the grotesque
:51:32. > :51:35.exploitation and the undercutting that goes on. Let's look at the
:51:36. > :51:39.issue of the flow of people in the context of access to the free
:51:40. > :51:43.market, but let's not blame migrants for the problems we have. Let's look
:51:44. > :51:47.instead at an economic system that has created these levels of
:51:48. > :51:51.inequality and injustice. So you seem to be saying both that you are
:51:52. > :51:55.in favour of some kind of control but also that you are against. Let
:51:56. > :52:01.me remind you what you said about this because it's an awful lot of
:52:02. > :52:07.words involved. You said, "Labour is not weighted to free movement of EU
:52:08. > :52:15.citizens as a point of principle but I don't want to be misinterpreted
:52:16. > :52:19.nor do we rule it out." What we are going to be doing is negotiating
:52:20. > :52:24.trade arrangement with to make sure that we are able to access those
:52:25. > :52:28.markets. It will involve people from Europe working here just as much as
:52:29. > :52:33.there are 2 million British people living and working in the European
:52:34. > :52:39.Union. Are we going to cut ourselves off from the European Union
:52:40. > :52:42.completely? I don't think so. When we talk about this you always talk
:52:43. > :52:48.about exploitation and economics but for an awful lot of people this is a
:52:49. > :52:57.matter of identity and culture. Do you accept that or do you think it
:52:58. > :53:00.is a form of racism? No, I think identity is an important thing. When
:53:01. > :53:06.they say communities are changing too fast, you don't get it? It is
:53:07. > :53:10.also a question of inclusion in that process so the Government for
:53:11. > :53:15.example cutting English-language classes is part of a problem. The
:53:16. > :53:20.lack of local authority funding leads to a blame culture which is
:53:21. > :53:24.unbelievably unfair on people. Let's instead look at the issues of how we
:53:25. > :53:29.develop our community as a society and look at the huge contribution
:53:30. > :53:32.made to our health service, education and local government by
:53:33. > :53:37.those who have come and live here, just like British people in France,
:53:38. > :53:41.Spain and Germany making a contribution there. "I Would like
:53:42. > :53:51.there to be some kind of high earnings cap quite honestly, lower
:53:52. > :54:00.-- quite honestly", do you believe that? I believe in the ratio concept
:54:01. > :54:06.we are putting forward. 20-1 is one being put forward. So nobody in the
:54:07. > :54:10.company earns more than 20 times... So the chief executive would be tied
:54:11. > :54:16.to the wage level of the lowest paid in the company. John Lewis
:54:17. > :54:18.partnership operate this. We would use its first fall in the public
:54:19. > :54:24.sector where it broadly applies at the moment but we would also use it
:54:25. > :54:27.as part of the procurement power of central government those companies
:54:28. > :54:30.that wish to do business with central government and wish to
:54:31. > :54:36.benefit from big levels of capital investment in projects all over the
:54:37. > :54:42.country. Make it a fairer Britain. It wouldn't apply to most private
:54:43. > :54:47.companies, the banks or engineering companies. I would like it too,
:54:48. > :54:52.that's why I've put the idea out there. It is a very popular idea, I
:54:53. > :54:55.was looking at an opinion poll this morning, not that I want to comment
:54:56. > :54:59.on opinion polls but I understand it is a popular idea and the word on
:55:00. > :55:03.the street I've heard is that people want to think about it and discuss
:55:04. > :55:07.it. We've had some interesting responses already, both from
:55:08. > :55:12.businesses, unions and individuals. To be clear, this wouldn't apply to
:55:13. > :55:18.people like footballers, pop stars... Footballers are not CEOs of
:55:19. > :55:22.their companies usually, but also, whilst they are paid ludicrous sums
:55:23. > :55:27.of money which I suppose we all pay for through our tickets, in reality
:55:28. > :55:40.they are employed for quite a short time with those clubs. Yes, you will
:55:41. > :55:53.be contributing to Mesut Ozil's ?15 million a year. Would you like to
:55:54. > :55:57.comment? Thanks coming are fantastic player, but can you live with what
:55:58. > :56:04.you got at the moment? His lovely player and it's a fantastic club.
:56:05. > :56:07.You have been clear in the past that you are against nuclear power and
:56:08. > :56:13.you want to see nuclear power stations decommissioned, is that
:56:14. > :56:19.your message to the voters of Copland? My message is the NHS is in
:56:20. > :56:22.crisis, your hospital is going to continue underfunded and
:56:23. > :56:27.understaffed and your A department is at risk. We will be protecting
:56:28. > :56:30.jobs in that area and we would also be trying to protect the pensions of
:56:31. > :56:36.those people that have worked so hard for so long to keep the nuclear
:56:37. > :56:40.industry safe. Are you against nuclear power? I want to see a
:56:41. > :56:45.mixture, a greater emphasis in the long term on renewables in the way
:56:46. > :56:49.Germany and other countries have done but we do have nuclear power
:56:50. > :56:53.stations, we have a nuclear base at the moment and that will continue
:56:54. > :56:56.for a long time. I say no to nuclear power, let's decommission the
:56:57. > :57:01.nuclear power stations, does Jeremy Corbyn still agree with himself? We
:57:02. > :57:06.have a mixture at the moment, nuclear power stations lost a very
:57:07. > :57:10.long time. Sellafield will be there for a long time as a reprocessing
:57:11. > :57:16.plant anyway, whatever happens. There's a big new development at
:57:17. > :57:23.Moorfield. That's being considered. Would you be happy for it to go
:57:24. > :57:27.ahead? I want an energy mix in this country, we have to make sure there
:57:28. > :57:30.is enough supplies and an energy platform so Moorfield is key to
:57:31. > :57:36.ensuring that happens but we have to have a much better energy mix,
:57:37. > :57:41.otherwise what we do? Go to coal-fired power stations or end up
:57:42. > :57:45.with energy shortages. The party is way behind in the opinion polls, you
:57:46. > :57:54.are behind in the opinion polls, you a series of by-elections in court
:57:55. > :57:59.Labour seat. If you don't win Copland and Stoke-on-Trent Central,
:58:00. > :58:06.you are toast, aren't you? No, our party will fight very hard. But
:58:07. > :58:10.things are not getting any better. You are making the assumption that
:58:11. > :58:13.everything is a problem, it's an opportunity, it's an opportunity to
:58:14. > :58:17.challenge the Government on the NHS and challenge them on the chaos of
:58:18. > :58:23.Brexit, an opportunity to challenge them on the housing shortage and
:58:24. > :58:29.zero hours contracts. Is there ever a moment you look in the mirror and
:58:30. > :58:34.think, I've done my best but this might not be for me. I think let's
:58:35. > :58:37.go out there and try to create a society where there are
:58:38. > :58:40.opportunities for everyone, where there is and homelessness, where
:58:41. > :58:43.there are houses for everyone and young people are not frightened of
:58:44. > :58:48.going to university because of the debts they will end up with at the
:58:49. > :58:49.end of their course. And I'm the man to do it. Jeremy Corbyn, thank you
:58:50. > :58:52.very much indeed. Next week, I'll be joined
:58:53. > :58:56.by the Liberal Democrat And the wonderful opera
:58:57. > :59:00.singer Joyce DiDonato.