:00:00. > :00:07.The Commons, again this week, is set for a thumping
:00:08. > :00:11.bust-up over Brexit, but many of us have
:00:12. > :00:14.more basic concerns - such as, today, a railway system
:00:15. > :00:37.Is Britain's least popular privatisation coming off the rails?
:00:38. > :00:40.I'm joined by the Transport Secretary and leading Brexit
:00:41. > :00:46.As MPs call for a major rethink in Britain's railway system,
:00:47. > :00:48.we'll be talking, as well, about Commons confrontations over
:00:49. > :00:52.Picking up on that, and ahead of another tough week
:00:53. > :00:56.for a hopelessly split Opposition, Emily Thornberry Shadow Foreign
:00:57. > :01:04.Plus more bread and butter issues with Britian's
:01:05. > :01:05.top cop, the retiring Metropolitian Police Commissioner
:01:06. > :01:07.Sir Bernard Hogan Howe - on knife crime, terrorism
:01:08. > :01:26.I'm joined by the BBC's Frank Gardner
:01:27. > :01:28.and his latest brush with the Reaper.
:01:29. > :01:31.And reviewing this morning's news UKIP's Deputy Chair Suzanne Evans,
:01:32. > :01:34.the former Brussels Bureau Chief, now Political Editor,
:01:35. > :01:37.of the Financial Times, George Parker and sparky
:01:38. > :01:44.And to play us out one of America's country music stars, Tift Merrit,
:01:45. > :01:52.with a song she's written specially about me, Dusty Old Man.
:01:53. > :02:00.But first the news with Tina Daheley.
:02:01. > :02:04.Train passengers in Britain are being let down because of the way
:02:05. > :02:05.the Government oversees the railways, according
:02:06. > :02:11.The Commons Transport Committee says customers are less and less
:02:12. > :02:14.satisfied with the service they get, and yet they are paying more for it.
:02:15. > :02:17.They're calling on the Department for Transport to give
:02:18. > :02:23.Dissatisfied passengers, rising ticket prices, poor performance.
:02:24. > :02:25.MPs are scathing about the way the Government
:02:26. > :02:31.They say passengers have been failed by the way ministers award
:02:32. > :02:36.The Commons Committee says competition is meant
:02:37. > :02:39.to drive improvements, but it warns there is dwindling
:02:40. > :02:44.National Express used to be the biggest train company
:02:45. > :02:48.here but is quitting the UK railway entirely.
:02:49. > :02:51.The MPs say the Government is too soft on companies that
:02:52. > :02:55.break their promises, and there is a call
:02:56. > :02:58.for the Department for Transport to give up its enforcement powers
:02:59. > :03:02.They have to have a better way of estimating the impact
:03:03. > :03:04.of major works on the line, and they should hold the train
:03:05. > :03:09.Unless that happens, the taxpayer will be funding
:03:10. > :03:14.the bill and the passengers will be suffering.
:03:15. > :03:17.The Government acknowledges they can make improvements,
:03:18. > :03:20.but points out it is investing more than ?40 billion to deliver faster
:03:21. > :03:25.Train companies say under franchising, they have transformed
:03:26. > :03:28.the railway into a success story - doubling the number of passengers,
:03:29. > :03:30.and creating the safest railway in Europe.
:03:31. > :03:40.The US Government has lodged an appeal to try to restore
:03:41. > :03:42.President Trump's travel ban on people from seven
:03:43. > :03:48.A judge in Seattle - James Robart - suspended Donald Trump's
:03:49. > :03:50.executive order on Friday, ruling that it was
:03:51. > :03:54.harmful to businesses and educational institutions.
:03:55. > :03:56.But President Trump has denounced the decision, calling Mr Robart
:03:57. > :04:06.Major airlines are again allowing citizens from the affected countries
:04:07. > :04:09.to board flights to the United States.
:04:10. > :04:15.Reports this morning that President Trump's appeal has been denied.
:04:16. > :04:18.Some British Airways cabin crew have begun a three day strike
:04:19. > :04:20.in a dispute over what they describe as "poverty pay".
:04:21. > :04:23.The Unite union estimates the staff earn, on average, ?16,000
:04:24. > :04:26.But BA insists none earn less than ?21,000.
:04:27. > :04:29.The airline says all its passengers will be able to travel,
:04:30. > :04:31.but that the time of flights might be affected.
:04:32. > :04:34.The leader of the French National Front, Marine Le Pen,
:04:35. > :04:37.will officially launch her Presidential election campaign
:04:38. > :04:43.She has promised to re-negotiate the terms of France's membership
:04:44. > :04:46.of the European Union, then hold an in-out referendum six
:04:47. > :04:50.She would also take France out of the single currency
:04:51. > :04:57.The next news on BBC One is at 1 o'clock.
:04:58. > :05:10.Lots of different stories in the Sunday papers. Everyone interested
:05:11. > :05:14.in the Six Nations, Scotland played wonderfully yesterday. Well done,
:05:15. > :05:19.Scotland. The Sunday Telegraph has gone with the Iraqi witchhunt story
:05:20. > :05:23.like a dog with a bone. The Mail on Sunday have a story about Nigel
:05:24. > :05:26.Farage and a friend of his. I will say no more about that at the
:05:27. > :05:30.moment. Some fruity e-mails involving David Beckham and his
:05:31. > :05:35.campaign for a knighthood. The Sunday Express has the former
:05:36. > :05:40.Archbishop of Canterbury defending Trump and blasting his critics.
:05:41. > :05:46.Finally, the Sunday Times, they have a big story on defence procurement
:05:47. > :05:50.failures. Pages and pages inside about the failures of our defence
:05:51. > :05:54.system, and rugby on the front page. We will start with George Parker
:05:55. > :06:01.talking about the Tory revolt on Brexit. You have a story from the
:06:02. > :06:05.Mail on Sunday. Yes, May faces revolt over Brexit. Theresa May got
:06:06. > :06:08.a huge majority last week in the House of Commons with the second
:06:09. > :06:15.reading but is back in the House of Commons week. There will be a big
:06:16. > :06:18.bust up. The Mail on Sunday saying basically you will be supporting an
:06:19. > :06:22.amendment which basically says Theresa May needs to come back to
:06:23. > :06:27.Parliament for Parliamentary consent if she wants to walk away from
:06:28. > :06:31.negotiations. It's the end game on this no deal. The PM has been
:06:32. > :06:34.absolutely clear, if she gets a deal sure you will bring it back to the
:06:35. > :06:38.House of Commons, in fact both chambers, and there will be votes.
:06:39. > :06:42.Rightly so. But if there is no deal, the government will determine what
:06:43. > :06:46.happens next. I think it should come into Parliament. I don't know why
:06:47. > :06:50.people are so fearful of that. This would give Parliament right at the
:06:51. > :06:53.end of the process the chance to say, you know what, we don't like
:06:54. > :06:57.this to your question on the danger for the Prime Minister is if
:06:58. > :07:00.Parliament rejects the deal she has lost all her authority, it is hard
:07:01. > :07:05.to go back and plead for another one. That's if we get a deal and the
:07:06. > :07:10.PM has been clear she will do that. This is about if there is no deal
:07:11. > :07:15.and our fear is if there is no deal but before the two years is up, and
:07:16. > :07:18.let's be honest, we won't start these negotiations until the
:07:19. > :07:22.conclusion of the French elections and then the German elections. In 18
:07:23. > :07:26.months she has to get up bespoke deal on trade, custom security and
:07:27. > :07:31.EU citizens. We think that will be very difficult and in the event of
:07:32. > :07:34.no deal, we want Parliament to decide what happens next. A lot of
:07:35. > :07:39.people will suspect this is an attempt to stay inside the EU by the
:07:40. > :07:45.back door. These are these mad conspiracy theories that people have
:07:46. > :07:49.to real. Last week, overwhelmingly, members of Parliament like me voted
:07:50. > :07:53.for us to leave the European Union. That is the reality. I never said
:07:54. > :07:56.anything otherwise. I always said, like all Conservatives, I would
:07:57. > :08:01.honour the result. That is what we are doing. We are the only party
:08:02. > :08:08.that is united on that. Suzanne Evans, Ukip is very suspicious about
:08:09. > :08:12.this process, aren't you? Anna, well done for voting with the government
:08:13. > :08:18.last week. The people have voted to me. I'm with Theresa May on this. A
:08:19. > :08:23.no deal situation where we revert to WTO trading deals is better than a
:08:24. > :08:26.bad deal that would be coming from Brussels. Again, the mail uses this
:08:27. > :08:29.phrase, going over a cliff edge. There are so many countries out
:08:30. > :08:33.there not in the single market, who don't have a trade deal with the
:08:34. > :08:36.European Union but you don't see them thrashing around at the bottom
:08:37. > :08:39.of the cliff, gasping for breath to save their lives. Many of them are
:08:40. > :08:47.doing incredibly well. No deal is not... You don't speak to British
:08:48. > :08:51.business I do, British businesses are increasingly becoming more
:08:52. > :08:55.positive. Even the CBI, straightforward remainders, pushed
:08:56. > :09:00.for the Remain agenda and coming round to this idea Britain has a
:09:01. > :09:03.brighter future outside the EU. That's different to a cliff edge.
:09:04. > :09:07.The CBI doesn't want us on a cliff edge. Let me move away from the
:09:08. > :09:10.white cliffs, the other part was about immigration and the promise we
:09:11. > :09:17.would have control over immigration and the clear implication is it
:09:18. > :09:23.would come down a lot. Suzanne, you have a story from yesterday's
:09:24. > :09:30.Guardian. Stephen Crabb Tory MP is urging Theresa May to guarantee the
:09:31. > :09:34.status of EU nationals in the UK. I agree with that. Nobody in the Leave
:09:35. > :09:40.campaign suggested EU nationals would be in any way affected by
:09:41. > :09:43.Brexit. They must have the right to stay here. EU nationals came here in
:09:44. > :09:49.good faith, expecting to be able to stay and that is the way it should
:09:50. > :09:51.stay. As Ukip's NHS champion I am particularly worried about EU
:09:52. > :09:55.workers in the national Health Service, because they are very
:09:56. > :09:58.important but already we are seeing some fear. There are fewer nurses
:09:59. > :10:02.coming to Britain now since the referendum vote. We have to get this
:10:03. > :10:07.sorted now. Theresa May should take the moral high ground and say, yes,
:10:08. > :10:13.you can stay. I think she has said that. No suggestion there is to be
:10:14. > :10:18.deportation. Stephen Crabb also says this promise that we are going to
:10:19. > :10:22.get rid of immigration, that it will come down, is for the birds. Our
:10:23. > :10:27.economy is dependent on immigration and will continue if we are inside
:10:28. > :10:31.or outside the EU. Stephen Crabb said students shouldn't be included
:10:32. > :10:35.in the migration figures. I was at the seminar yesterday attended by
:10:36. > :10:38.hundreds of Chinese students studying at British universities or
:10:39. > :10:41.having to go home the moment they finish their degrees. These people
:10:42. > :10:44.would be brilliant for the British economy but because they are
:10:45. > :10:53.included in the migration figures, they are sent home. We need to be
:10:54. > :10:56.honest and have a proper debate. It will be interesting to see when we
:10:57. > :10:59.leave the EU if we have fewer, more all the same number of migrants. The
:11:00. > :11:02.only way we have less is by trashing our economy. Bringing us further on,
:11:03. > :11:08.this is an issue that has divided the Labour Party as well. I think my
:11:09. > :11:11.party, we are together, it is only cairn that voted against last week
:11:12. > :11:17.and for understandable reasons. My goodness me, what a mess the Labour
:11:18. > :11:21.Party is in. -- it was only Ken the voted against. She said happy. We
:11:22. > :11:26.are not, we need a good, strong opposition, it's important for
:11:27. > :11:30.democracy. Diane Abbott, taken terribly poorly and couldn't vote,
:11:31. > :11:34.even though there were people with very serious cancers who did come in
:11:35. > :11:39.and vote. We see them, they are all over the place. We should be in no
:11:40. > :11:46.doubt whatsoever about these huge fractions within Labour. There are
:11:47. > :11:51.about a dozen Labour MPs who defied Jeremy Corbyn last week who are
:11:52. > :11:55.waiting out to find if they will be sacked, including Clive Lewis. You
:11:56. > :11:58.could have a situation where he is scrabbling around to find someone to
:11:59. > :12:03.sit on the Shadow Cabinet. So many Labour MPs see him as a future
:12:04. > :12:08.leader. Yes, and many say he might quit as a prelude to some leadership
:12:09. > :12:15.bid. We are having a sweepstake in the office. Can we just be clear, in
:12:16. > :12:18.the week ahead, what can happen is a whole series of amendments about EU
:12:19. > :12:22.citizens that Suzanne was talking about and the vote at the end of the
:12:23. > :12:25.process and many more will be put down and then we will see whether
:12:26. > :12:30.this piece of legislation is the same as they came into the Commons
:12:31. > :12:33.or very different. One of the things people have to
:12:34. > :12:37.remember is the bill is what I call a vehicle to deliver the result of
:12:38. > :12:42.the referendum. It's not about the contents of it. We will have to see
:12:43. > :12:47.which amendments for within scope and there could be very few,
:12:48. > :12:53.actually. Now, let's move onto Trump. George, you had a story from
:12:54. > :12:57.the Observer, lots of Trump all over the papers today. The papers are
:12:58. > :13:02.picking apart the dramatic last few weeks. Just had a suggestion his
:13:03. > :13:06.appeal against this judge in Washington state, wanted to stop the
:13:07. > :13:10.ban on migrants, has failed. I don't know what stage is out but it looks
:13:11. > :13:14.like this is a big confrontation that he seems to be losing. Between
:13:15. > :13:20.the president and the so-called judges, as he refers to them. The
:13:21. > :13:24.judges are seen by Trump is part of this liberal conspiracy, reflected
:13:25. > :13:27.here in the Observer, talking about the pain he feels the fact he is
:13:28. > :13:30.checking Twitter in the middle of the night to see what might have
:13:31. > :13:36.happened, what the president might tweeted. On the other side there is
:13:37. > :13:40.Dan Daniel Davidson who says Trump is doing exactly what he said he was
:13:41. > :13:43.going to do, is not a fascist and there are people on the east coast
:13:44. > :13:49.and West Coast who just don't get it. Carey said they should come down
:13:50. > :13:51.about it all. A huge issue for the British establishment because he
:13:52. > :13:56.will be coming here almost certainly in the summer for a big state visit.
:13:57. > :13:59.Nigel Farage is about the only big figure in British politics who has
:14:00. > :14:02.been a resolute supporter of Trump all the way through. He is on the
:14:03. > :14:07.front page for other reasons as well. You have some trouble with
:14:08. > :14:10.your man in the Stoke by-election. Can you explain this? Paul Muchall,
:14:11. > :14:14.your new leader has a nice house in Stoke with no furniture, a mattress
:14:15. > :14:22.on the floor and it seems a bizarre story. -- Paul not all. I think
:14:23. > :14:26.labour and Channel 4 have perhaps been medal making. The tenancy
:14:27. > :14:30.agreement on this house was signed some weeks ago, but as we all know,
:14:31. > :14:35.when we are renting a new house, it can take some time to fully move in.
:14:36. > :14:38.As I'm aware, there was furniture in the house. I think Michael looks
:14:39. > :14:45.through the letterbox, but what is in our hallways is not indicative...
:14:46. > :14:51.He's living there? Yes. How long for? I think last week. He has never
:14:52. > :14:57.made, he has never pretended to be local born and bred. Why has he got
:14:58. > :15:02.this house then? Because he is on the campaign trail every day.
:15:03. > :15:06.George, why is this an important story, is it an important story? It
:15:07. > :15:09.is an important story in the sense of his masquerading to be something
:15:10. > :15:15.he isn't and has broken any electoral rules... Anyone can report
:15:16. > :15:21.something to the police, as you know. Also on the front page of the
:15:22. > :15:26.express with Lord Carey. He writes in the express quite a lot.
:15:27. > :15:31.Interesting, the former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey was one of
:15:32. > :15:35.the more conservative evangelical archbishops we have. He's saying
:15:36. > :15:38.today there has been a hysteria over President Trump. I kind of agree
:15:39. > :15:44.with him. Talking about the demonstration and we had he said, I
:15:45. > :15:47.can't recall such demonstrations against such terrible autocratic
:15:48. > :15:52.regimes like Burma, Sudan. It seems to be one of the key characteristics
:15:53. > :15:56.of those who consider themselves progressive to reserve condemnation
:15:57. > :15:59.for Israel and the West. He says when it comes to the well's worst
:16:00. > :16:05.politician there are several other candidates who could trump Trump.
:16:06. > :16:08.This might be because we hold the Americans to higher standard than we
:16:09. > :16:09.expect more of them so it's more of a shock when we see this kind of
:16:10. > :16:18.thing. I think that's right and I have no
:16:19. > :16:24.problem with people criticising Trump, but the talk about him not
:16:25. > :16:27.being allowed to come to the country, I think if you have
:16:28. > :16:34.problems with somebody the last thing you should do is show of you
:16:35. > :16:41.that is not internationalist and meet their standards. He doesn't
:16:42. > :16:44.meet MPs, it is a very special occasion which is reserved for
:16:45. > :16:50.people who have had great achievements in their leadership. It
:16:51. > :16:54.is too early in the leadership for him to be asked. The Royal Gallery
:16:55. > :16:58.is the alternative. Westminster Hall in my opinion should be for the
:16:59. > :17:05.great leaders and he's not a great leader. Would you go and watch him?
:17:06. > :17:10.I'm not sure I would. The thing about Trump is what does he crave
:17:11. > :17:14.most, it is attention, he's like a spoiled child. There's a lot to be
:17:15. > :17:19.said for not giving him all of this stuff because he loves it. He's the
:17:20. > :17:23.sort where really just ignoring can be the best thing. What we shouldn't
:17:24. > :17:29.ignore is what he does and what he's done with this executive order, it
:17:30. > :17:36.is outrageous and hugely offensive and it has no basis in fact in any
:17:37. > :17:46.event. Except it is carrying on from Obama's previous policy. He didn't
:17:47. > :17:52.ban. The Sunday Times has done the transport story. The select
:17:53. > :17:56.committee produced this report overnight that basically says the
:17:57. > :18:00.Department for Transport is not fit for purpose in handling the
:18:01. > :18:04.franchises that then control the British railway system. Can you
:18:05. > :18:09.explain any more about this because it's quite a technical issue. Yes,
:18:10. > :18:14.and it's mixed up with the southern rail dispute, and the argument is
:18:15. > :18:17.the Department for Transport cannot cope with the complexity of
:18:18. > :18:20.negotiating these difficult contracts with a whole host of
:18:21. > :18:24.private sector companies. Chris Grayling I'm sure will be defending
:18:25. > :18:29.the system in the future. I think there has been a false moustache
:18:30. > :18:33.about how brilliant the railways were in the era before
:18:34. > :18:34.privatisation. Since privatisation rail passenger numbers have actually
:18:35. > :18:40.doubled. In a menacing world,
:18:41. > :18:44.no group of people have taken more delight in trying to terrify us
:18:45. > :18:46.than weather forecasters. Now, apparently, we're heading
:18:47. > :19:01.for another very cold spell. Thank goodness I'm not paid to
:19:02. > :19:06.please, especially with views like this this morning, misty, murky,
:19:07. > :19:10.foggy and icy start this morning. But the tendency will be where you
:19:11. > :19:16.start that way for things to brighten up. This narrow band of
:19:17. > :19:23.rain and snow in the hills edging Northover Scotland. This band of
:19:24. > :19:26.rain may head towards London for a time. Temperatures fell close to
:19:27. > :19:31.where they should be at the moment for this time review. Any rain will
:19:32. > :19:34.actually clear away to leave dry night and a widespread frost
:19:35. > :19:39.developing. Some rural spots in the morning could be down to minus five
:19:40. > :19:46.and with good season freezing fog patches so it could be a slow start
:19:47. > :19:52.to our journeys tomorrow morning. The cloud and fog will clear away,
:19:53. > :19:56.and there will be outbreaks of rain moving in, gale is developing in
:19:57. > :20:02.some spots. May get to ten in Plymouth, but a cold feel for many
:20:03. > :20:06.of us. It will turn colder in an easterly wind especially at the end
:20:07. > :20:11.of the week, and on that wind there could be snow flurries or snow
:20:12. > :20:14.showers heading our way. Winter hasn't finished with us yet.
:20:15. > :20:18.It just goes off and on, doesn't it? We've been seeing this week
:20:19. > :20:21.the first signs of canvassers stumbling around the by-election
:20:22. > :20:23.centres of Stoke and Copeland. That's where Labour will hear
:20:24. > :20:25.a meaningful verdict The Shadow Foreign Secretary,
:20:26. > :20:32.Emily Thornberry, joins me. 47 Labour MPs including ten
:20:33. > :20:38.frontbenchers voted against the whip or didn't support the whip this
:20:39. > :20:42.week, where they right to do so? I know your narrative is, as you said
:20:43. > :20:47.at the top of the programme, that we are hopelessly divided and I don't
:20:48. > :20:50.think that is fair. The Labour Party is a national party and we represent
:20:51. > :20:57.the nation and the nation is divided on this and it's very difficult, and
:20:58. > :21:00.many MPs representing majority Remain constituencies have this
:21:01. > :21:04.balancing act between representing the constituency and representing
:21:05. > :21:08.the nation. Labour as a national party have a clear view. We have
:21:09. > :21:12.been given or instructions, we lost a referendum, we fought to stay in
:21:13. > :21:16.Europe but the public have spoken so we do as we are told, but the
:21:17. > :21:20.important thing now is not to give Theresa May a blank check, we have
:21:21. > :21:23.got to get the right deal for the country. I want to come onto that
:21:24. > :21:32.but it sounds like you are saying you understand the motives of Labour
:21:33. > :21:34.MPs who voted with their conscience against triggering Article 50.
:21:35. > :21:37.Should be therefore perhaps not be disciplined? Given that the country
:21:38. > :21:41.is split and they are standing with their constituents, as is their
:21:42. > :21:46.right and some would say their duty? It is not my job to work out what
:21:47. > :21:49.should happen. I understand completely, and my constituents
:21:50. > :21:53.voted overwhelmingly to remain in the UK but I am a national
:21:54. > :21:57.politician, Labour is a national party and we offer some hope. You
:21:58. > :22:02.say we are hopelessly divided, I say we offer some hope in the way in
:22:03. > :22:05.which we thought work our way through this so that we bring the
:22:06. > :22:09.country with us and that has to be on the basis of making sure we have
:22:10. > :22:13.a number of guarantees from Theresa May and we make sure we have a
:22:14. > :22:18.number of achievements. So making sure we have proper access to the
:22:19. > :22:21.single market. Just on whether you are split or not, it sounds like on
:22:22. > :22:26.this issue collective responsibility has to be put to one side because of
:22:27. > :22:30.the nature of the split in the country. No, the Labour Party 's
:22:31. > :22:33.national party and we have a nationally and collectively agreed
:22:34. > :22:38.position on this and that is what we will do. We will not frustrate
:22:39. > :22:42.Brexit, we need to get the best deal. That's come onto the Shadow
:22:43. > :22:58.Home Secretary, have you spoken to Diane Abbott since she didn't vote?
:22:59. > :23:00.No, I haven't. A lot of people in the Labour Party are furious about
:23:01. > :23:03.this. She might have had a migraine, but we have one MP coming hundreds
:23:04. > :23:05.of miles with cancer, putting himself through the mill to get
:23:06. > :23:08.there. She could have stayed in the House of Commons and been counted
:23:09. > :23:11.in. Can you understand why some of your colleagues are so cross with
:23:12. > :23:16.her? I don't know the details about this, all I know is she was ill.
:23:17. > :23:22.That is all I can say. Can we go through some of the Labour
:23:23. > :23:25.amendments, first of all... And this is the opposition doing its job,
:23:26. > :23:29.holding the Government to account and making sure the Government does
:23:30. > :23:33.the right thing. Guaranteeing rights for EU nationals living in the UK,
:23:34. > :23:37.there is an amendment specifically about that, but there is no
:23:38. > :23:41.suggestion really the Government are going to deport foreign nationals
:23:42. > :23:47.are things go wrong in the talks. Why is this such an important
:23:48. > :23:51.amendment? I have had people coming to my surgeries in tears. I had a
:23:52. > :23:56.meeting of 200 French nationals coming to see me and saying... Not
:23:57. > :24:00.from my constituency, but saying they are extremely concerned about
:24:01. > :24:04.the future. They have fallen in love with this country, with someone from
:24:05. > :24:08.this country, they have put their life down here and they have got to
:24:09. > :24:13.have their life on hold for a number of years while Theresa May sorts it
:24:14. > :24:19.out. It is a basic humanity question. Yes, but also it is right
:24:20. > :24:24.at this stage to make a gesture. We are falling out with our European
:24:25. > :24:28.neighbours in a way that is not good at the start of these negotiations.
:24:29. > :24:33.She should be sorting this out unilaterally on behalf of people
:24:34. > :24:38.living in my constituency. Moving on to securing workers' rights and Tory
:24:39. > :24:43.free access to the single market, do you think that is doable? In
:24:44. > :24:46.negotiations we have to have at the forefront of our mind making sure we
:24:47. > :24:50.look after the economy first and foremost. Our biggest trading
:24:51. > :24:55.neighbour is Europe so getting as good a deal in terms of being close
:24:56. > :24:59.to the single market, so that does mean... She has said she will be
:25:00. > :25:03.able to get tariff free access to the single market, we are just
:25:04. > :25:07.holding her to that. And it is crucial for the Labour Party get the
:25:08. > :25:11.vote at the end of the process, not simply on the deal but deal or no
:25:12. > :25:15.deal, whatever happens the Commons will be involved in a proper,
:25:16. > :25:22.meaningful vote at the end of the process. Yes, and it's also about
:25:23. > :25:28.engaging Parliament through the process. We represent the country,
:25:29. > :25:33.so it is not good enough for her to just go off and say goodbye, I will
:25:34. > :25:40.sort something out, trust me. No, we don't trust you, we want to hold you
:25:41. > :25:44.to account. She has said one of her options is to break the British
:25:45. > :25:50.economic model. She has said that's one thing she would be prepared to
:25:51. > :25:54.do. Are these red lines for you? Yes, we need to make sure that
:25:55. > :25:59.throughout the negotiations we are ensuring these things happen.
:26:00. > :26:05.Without this, for you, for the Labour Party, this is a catastrophic
:26:06. > :26:09.process? No, the difficulty with the negotiation is it is about give and
:26:10. > :26:14.take, it will be a process happening over the next two years. So my
:26:15. > :26:21.question is very clear, if you don't get what you achieve, do you vote in
:26:22. > :26:25.favour of Article 50 anyway? Because it is totally illogical if you do.
:26:26. > :26:29.Now it is not. There will be negotiations happening in the next
:26:30. > :26:33.week. There are many ways in which the Government may be able to react
:26:34. > :26:37.to this that will be positive. For example on one of the amendments we
:26:38. > :26:41.have put down, they may say we are not going to support this amendment
:26:42. > :26:46.but during a speech we can give an assurance, we can speak in back
:26:47. > :26:51.channels, we can say we will not go off the rails in relation to
:26:52. > :26:54.workers' rights. So the public must take for granted private
:26:55. > :26:57.conversation between you and ministers and assume that's what's
:26:58. > :27:02.going to happen even if you don't win votes? Personally I think it is
:27:03. > :27:06.much better for them to be saying it on the record and saying it so we
:27:07. > :27:15.know what they are committing themselves to so we can hold them to
:27:16. > :27:18.account, but they will need to have private conversations, there will
:27:19. > :27:21.need to be back channels. We are speaking to Tory backbenchers and
:27:22. > :27:28.trying to get a compromise together that will work. Taking the position
:27:29. > :27:33.of someone like Clive Lewis, in the Labour Party, he voted for Article
:27:34. > :27:36.50 in the first vote but he says look, we have these very important
:27:37. > :27:41.amendments, we need to change this legislation, change it for workers'
:27:42. > :27:45.rights, tariff free access to the EU and the rest of it, and if we don't
:27:46. > :27:49.get those I will vote against it. That is a totally logical position,
:27:50. > :27:54.what's wrong with that? What's wrong with it is we have said we will not
:27:55. > :27:57.frustrate wrecks it. We are struggling and fighting to make sure
:27:58. > :28:01.we get the best possible deal and we are doing that by holding the
:28:02. > :28:06.Government to account, but we are Democrats and the public have voted
:28:07. > :28:11.for us to leave the European Union. We have to make sure she does the
:28:12. > :28:14.right thing and is in Europe. And you cannot stay on the front bench
:28:15. > :28:20.if you don't accept that so presumably Diane Abbott must vote
:28:21. > :28:24.with the whip to keep her job next week? We are in a state of
:28:25. > :28:27.negotiations. I cannot sit here and tell you which of the amendments
:28:28. > :28:33.will be put before Parliament, which ones will be voted through, where
:28:34. > :28:37.the negotiations will get us, but I can tell you the direction of travel
:28:38. > :28:43.of the Labour Party, which is a clear direction. At the end of the
:28:44. > :28:47.process, whatever happens to those amendments, you are going to vote in
:28:48. > :28:52.favour of Article 50 even if you have lost on every single issue? And
:28:53. > :28:58.you are insisting someone might Diane Abbott must vote with you? It
:28:59. > :29:01.is a fast moving picture, let's see what happens. I have said a number
:29:02. > :29:06.of times what our principles are and how we are trying to get them.
:29:07. > :29:11.Unfortunately we are not the Government, we are doing our utmost
:29:12. > :29:14.to the Government to account as an opposition. But at least you can
:29:15. > :29:20.save Diane Abbott must vote with the whip to keep position as Shadow Home
:29:21. > :29:23.Secretary next week. The whip will be decided next week, let's see what
:29:24. > :29:27.happens in relation to the amendments. It will be for the Chief
:29:28. > :29:31.Whip and the leader to decide what the whip is on various amendments,
:29:32. > :29:36.which amendments we are pushing, which we are not and what the final
:29:37. > :29:43.vote will be. Most important, the public are more interested, I think,
:29:44. > :29:49.on Will we frustrate Brexit? No, we won't. Will would be fighting for
:29:50. > :29:54.the best deal? Yes, we will. But not very successfully if you don't have
:29:55. > :30:00.real leverage or red lines, you will vote for it come what may. Look at
:30:01. > :30:04.the successes we have already had, she didn't want to have a vote
:30:05. > :30:13.before Parliament at all or White Paper. That was the courts, not the
:30:14. > :30:16.Labour Party. The White Paper was us demanding it and campaigning for it.
:30:17. > :30:22.They didn't even want to put in black and white... We are in a
:30:23. > :30:25.minority, we are the opposition so we have to do it through
:30:26. > :30:29.negotiations with opposition MPs too, that's the difficulty we are
:30:30. > :30:34.in. We cannot demand something and get it, we have to work with others
:30:35. > :30:37.and campaign for it, and slowly, slowly we are achieving the things
:30:38. > :30:43.we need. We cannot deliver it straightaway. We will keep watching
:30:44. > :30:45.very carefully. For now, thank you very much indeed.
:30:46. > :30:47.In 2004, while reporting overseas, the BBC's Frank Gardner was shot
:30:48. > :30:49.by Al-Qaeda terrorists and gravely wounded.
:30:50. > :30:50.Frank's been using a wheelchair ever since.
:30:51. > :30:54.So, how would he fulfil his childhood dream of penetrating one
:30:55. > :30:56.of the most remote places on the planet to see those magical
:30:57. > :31:01.Well, he did it, but risked his life in the process.
:31:02. > :31:15.Let's have a look at one of the edgier moments of his trek.
:31:16. > :31:20.My life-changing injuries remind me just how vulnerable my body is.
:31:21. > :31:23.I've been incredibly lucky to be back to
:31:24. > :31:26.the state that I'm in, but I'm not invincible, you know.
:31:27. > :31:54.Sooner you found me, Frank. You could have breezed through it,
:31:55. > :31:59.Andrew! You were basically be carried
:32:00. > :32:04.through by bearers in the old-fashioned way, how uncomfortable
:32:05. > :32:09.with that? Very uncomfortable, but far more uncomfortable for them. I
:32:10. > :32:13.insisted they had padding. They were as strong as oxen. Really tough,
:32:14. > :32:18.resilient and good-natured. I had to trust them completely, because there
:32:19. > :32:21.was a kind of relay, as we went through different tribal
:32:22. > :32:25.territories, one plan were turned over to others they'd have to be,
:32:26. > :32:36.they'd have to learn all over again about how to carry me. I had to
:32:37. > :32:39.trust them completely, because they missed their footing or slept, you
:32:40. > :32:42.could see how steep it was. But yeah, you can sit there, there's a
:32:43. > :32:46.slight kind of, as you say, air of the Victorian explorer. Obviously
:32:47. > :32:50.it's not how I would like to travel, but if that's the only way I can see
:32:51. > :32:55.the Birds of Paradise, so be it. Where did this obsession come from?
:32:56. > :32:59.From when I was about eight years old, I had a set of playing cards
:33:00. > :33:04.with Birds of Paradise on the back. My father was playing Schumann on
:33:05. > :33:07.the piano and I associated that, the music... I thought, I would love to
:33:08. > :33:28.go and see these. It's been a lifelong quest of mine. When
:33:29. > :33:32.I got shot and I was in hospital for several months, I thought, I've
:33:33. > :33:35.missed it, I left it too late. Then I met Benedict Allen, and explorer,
:33:36. > :33:37.who said I'm your man, I can take you there. He had had a relationship
:33:38. > :33:40.with this particular tribe going way back? He lived with them for six
:33:41. > :33:42.months and when so much further than most travellers or adventurers or
:33:43. > :33:44.backpackers do. He underwent this horrendous rituals scarring that
:33:45. > :33:47.they do. Nearly 200 cuts with a sharp bamboo blade, blood pouring
:33:48. > :33:51.off him, to become one of them. This was going back to the tribe you to
:33:52. > :33:57.live with. Back to his new family, in a sense. What happened to you,
:33:58. > :34:03.you got sepsis... Not quite, sepsis is really serious. Basically, what
:34:04. > :34:08.you saw there was me being covered over -- carried over pretty tough
:34:09. > :34:20.terrain. It chafed away my backside. I got weakened muscles. It meant I
:34:21. > :34:24.woke up with this jungle sore, the medic looked at it and that it was
:34:25. > :34:28.quite serious. They flashed the picture to the medics in New
:34:29. > :34:30.Zealand, they said, get him out now, if he gets sepsis, will only have 48
:34:31. > :34:39.hours. Let's have a glimpse of that. It's a big wound and that's just
:34:40. > :34:45.a conduit for infection. We're not going to get up
:34:46. > :34:57.to the mountains at all, all because of this bloody pressure
:34:58. > :35:01.sore that I've got. God, you know, I hate the way
:35:02. > :35:14.the sort of curse of my injuries And yet not quite because he got
:35:15. > :35:18.back there in the end. I think we will see the second half next week.
:35:19. > :35:23.Yes, Friday on BBC Two. Thank you. At the end of this month,
:35:24. > :35:25.Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe will step down as Commissioner
:35:26. > :35:27.of the Metropolitan Police after a tumultuous period leading
:35:28. > :35:29.Britain's biggest force. His supporters say he's done
:35:30. > :35:31.a sterling job keeping the capital safe, so why,
:35:32. > :35:45.as he leaves, is he so worried that Welcome. You used the phrase red
:35:46. > :35:51.lights were flashing on the dashboard and crime was rising, what
:35:52. > :35:55.crime and why? Morning. We have had a succession of years where crime
:35:56. > :36:00.has come down. In London we have seen a reduction in crime of nearly
:36:01. > :36:06.a fifth. Over the last 9-12 months we've seen it change around the
:36:07. > :36:10.country. Why is it going up? Things like cybercrime, frankly there is
:36:11. > :36:14.more of it. We are seeing more violence reported, to be fair some
:36:15. > :36:18.of that is about better recording by the police. And we have seen more
:36:19. > :36:22.sexual offences from the past reported, things that have happened
:36:23. > :36:26.in the past that people didn't feel confident to report and have now.
:36:27. > :36:31.We've also seen things like knife crime rise. This can be quite
:36:32. > :36:34.worrying, obviously, people want to see crime fall. You said you and the
:36:35. > :36:36.Mayor of London are worried you won't have the money to put enough
:36:37. > :36:49.police on the streets of the capital and
:36:50. > :36:51.presumably elsewhere. Every single Tory party conference, I listened to
:36:52. > :36:53.speeches by ministers saying don't worry, there will be more bobbies on
:36:54. > :36:56.the beat and the Conservatives, what's gone wrong? I suppose the big
:36:57. > :36:58.thing is there's not enough money. After 2008 public spending went
:36:59. > :37:06.down. Across the UK, the number of cops has come down from 147,000 to
:37:07. > :37:11.120,000. We have maintained our numbers. But in the future... I
:37:12. > :37:17.think it will be very hard because the money is still tight. The
:37:18. > :37:24.demands are getting higher, pay increases and various other things.
:37:25. > :37:27.And the likelihood is by 2020, less public spending, another ?3 billion
:37:28. > :37:32.to come. We've seen some rises in crime and we are seeing the number,
:37:33. > :37:35.the amount of money available to the police is reducing. Put it bluntly,
:37:36. > :37:41.fewer police on the streets of London and higher crime in the
:37:42. > :37:47.future? It's a risk, I can't say it will happen... This city is getting
:37:48. > :37:53.bigger, 9 million people, and it's getting younger. The north-east of
:37:54. > :37:56.England, more young men around. I'm not defeated by nature, I don't
:37:57. > :38:01.think just because there is less money you have to fail. All I am
:38:02. > :38:04.highlighting, to be fair to my successors, is it will be a more
:38:05. > :38:08.challenging environment. We've done a lot in the last five years to make
:38:09. > :38:11.the Metropolitan Police more efficient and modern. We've taken
:38:12. > :38:16.out a lot of things from the past that were inefficient and kept our
:38:17. > :38:26.32,000 courts. Less buildings, less managers, but we have lost about
:38:27. > :38:29.4500 support staff. You have to do these things on their arm or hard
:38:30. > :38:32.decisions to come. What are the hardest decisions still to come? The
:38:33. > :38:34.main one is how do you find more savings question what you can only
:38:35. > :38:38.make so many efficiencies. 70% of our costs are down to people, so you
:38:39. > :38:43.have to look in that area, where we have already made savings, and we
:38:44. > :38:48.have outsourced quite a lot commercial entities. As you head for
:38:49. > :38:50.a happy retirement, is your final message to Amber Rudd and the Prime
:38:51. > :38:56.Minister, think again on the money? I hope, I'm sure what the government
:38:57. > :39:00.will do... We've had lots of support from this Prime Minister when she
:39:01. > :39:03.was Home Secretary. They have always been supportive of the police and
:39:04. > :39:07.tried our best -- their best to keep this in a good place. It is my job
:39:08. > :39:16.as one of the top police officers in the country to say this is something
:39:17. > :39:18.you have to continue to invest in. 12- ?13 billion of spend, you
:39:19. > :39:23.compare it to the health service and military, they are far bigger
:39:24. > :39:27.spenders. A relatively small amount. I can only make my case the cops. If
:39:28. > :39:32.you don't have them, you have a problem. We are a hygiene factor,
:39:33. > :39:37.you have to invest. As I leave I hope the legacy is a good one but
:39:38. > :39:41.one that continues to needed to be invested in. On your watch apart
:39:42. > :39:45.from the terrible killing of Lee Rigby, it's been relatively quiet on
:39:46. > :39:49.the terrorism front. What is your message to people watching? Still a
:39:50. > :39:54.severe level of threat officially. How worried are you? We should be
:39:55. > :39:58.proud of what we have achieved so far. Western Europe, France, Belgium
:39:59. > :40:03.and Germany, we have seen terrorist attacks get through. If you think
:40:04. > :40:06.about what happened in November 20 15th in Paris, 200 badly injured,
:40:07. > :40:11.this is what it looks like if they get through. What you have to get is
:40:12. > :40:15.an excellent security service, which we have, and I would argue the best
:40:16. > :40:20.of the world partnership between the security service and police. You
:40:21. > :40:27.work a lot more closely with MI5 than you used to? Yes. We also have
:40:28. > :40:30.networks across the country which is fantastic, the Metropolitan Police
:40:31. > :40:33.leads that network and that gives you links into our communities. That
:40:34. > :40:39.means people tell us stuff. The Nexis to link with the security
:40:40. > :40:46.service, the links with a broad and the combined power of that is
:40:47. > :40:52.immense. The best in the world. What did you feel what did you think when
:40:53. > :40:55.you saw the Prime Minister put security cooperation, intelligence
:40:56. > :41:00.cooperation on the table, as part of Brexit negotiation? I think the
:41:01. > :41:05.political decision to leave Europe is not for me. What I believe will
:41:06. > :41:08.happen in the future is it will be neutral effect, really, on security
:41:09. > :41:12.cooperation. I genuinely think Europe and the rest of the world
:41:13. > :41:15.needs the support of the security services in the UK. There is more of
:41:16. > :41:20.a joint benefit in sharing information with French and Belgians
:41:21. > :41:23.and no one wants our terrorists to go there or there is to come here.
:41:24. > :41:27.Nobody will sit on their laurels and say, I tell you what, we're not
:41:28. > :41:32.going to share data. We will share intelligence and we will keep people
:41:33. > :41:37.safe. So it should already be part of these negotiations, on the table
:41:38. > :41:40.as a counter to be moved around? That is a political decision. My
:41:41. > :41:44.only point is I think in the future I'm confident the arrangements that
:41:45. > :41:50.are put in place will keep us safe, as with Europe. It is fine for both
:41:51. > :41:53.parties to do that. It is vital that anyone travelling between us doesn't
:41:54. > :41:57.think they will have a safe haven on either side of the border. We will
:41:58. > :42:02.make that work. We have in the past before Europe, we have during Europe
:42:03. > :42:04.and I'm sure we will in future. When the Prime Minister was Home
:42:05. > :42:08.Secretary she made you rein back on stop and search. What happened to
:42:09. > :42:12.knife crime as a result? Not quite right chronologically. I
:42:13. > :42:16.started to reduce stop and search before anyone asked for it. When I
:42:17. > :42:22.arrived in 2011 there was a period of instability. We had riots in the
:42:23. > :42:25.city. When I looked at it, one of the things that concerned me was the
:42:26. > :42:29.high rate of stop and search. We were stopped searching about 1.3
:42:30. > :42:33.million. I said we would reduce it and get better at it and we did. And
:42:34. > :42:38.what has happened to knife crime? Initially it came down. It now gone
:42:39. > :42:42.up again? Let me make my point little. We have reduce stop and
:42:43. > :42:48.search by about 70% and reduced complaints it. For the first four
:42:49. > :42:52.years we not only reduce the amount of stop and search, we saw that we
:42:53. > :42:56.arrested more people, so becoming more effective at and we saw knife
:42:57. > :42:59.crime dropped. It is only in the last year we have seen this change.
:43:00. > :43:03.We've started to increase stop and search in a smart way, where the
:43:04. > :43:06.problems up and started to get on top of some of these problems. If
:43:07. > :43:11.you think stop and search is a good thing, you have to do it. But I
:43:12. > :43:18.honestly think in 2011 we did it too much, we have reduced and I think we
:43:19. > :43:21.have achieved a good outcome. Now we have just seen we need to tweak it
:43:22. > :43:24.again. A little bit more. It's a heck of a job. What is your
:43:25. > :43:27.reflection on the qualities needed by your successor? You have to deal
:43:28. > :43:32.with American London, the Home Secretary, the Prime Minister, the
:43:33. > :43:35.national media. -- the American London. If you are putting on paper
:43:36. > :43:39.at the top qualities needed for your successor, what would it be? You
:43:40. > :43:43.have to enjoy it, you have to want to do this job as a cop. I'm a
:43:44. > :43:47.policeman. I will leave being a policeman and I will regret not
:43:48. > :43:51.being a policeman. Your heart and location has to beat police officer.
:43:52. > :43:55.You want to stop crime, arrest offenders. You have to think about
:43:56. > :44:06.how to use resources wisely. I hope we have been efficient in the way we
:44:07. > :44:08.have used our resources. You have to work with people Big Show whichever
:44:09. > :44:11.political party, I don't care which party they are from. I have a duty
:44:12. > :44:14.to work with that elected party and make it work. You have to be
:44:15. > :44:17.flexible. This city is moving around us at a rate we've never seen. A
:44:18. > :44:20.million people have arrived in the last ten years. You have to be
:44:21. > :44:25.flexible. One final question, any big regrets? The operation Midland
:44:26. > :44:28.issue must hangover you a bit? Of course there are occasions when I
:44:29. > :44:34.wish we'd done better. That is one of them? It is. I've apologise, is
:44:35. > :44:38.that I regret it and apologise to the individuals as well. In my time
:44:39. > :44:41.of five and a half years we've investigated about 5 million crimes,
:44:42. > :44:46.probably about 20 million phone calls. We do get it wrong sometimes.
:44:47. > :44:51.I use this analogy, and I hope you're not a librarian, if
:44:52. > :44:54.librarians get it wrong the books are in the wrong order, when we get
:44:55. > :44:58.it wrong it really matters. I am glad we are disappointed
:44:59. > :45:02.collectively when the British police get it wrong because we have high
:45:03. > :45:06.standards. People all over the world will capitalise on the reason is we
:45:07. > :45:09.act reasonably and professionally. One of the few forces that can
:45:10. > :45:14.patrol the city but this without a gun and that is because we have the
:45:15. > :45:18.support of the public. 32,000 cops cannot dominate a point a billion
:45:19. > :45:21.people and nor should they. We should be proud of British police
:45:22. > :45:22.and I am proud of it. The Bernard Hogan-Howe, thank you for talking to
:45:23. > :45:25.us today. Coming up later this morning,
:45:26. > :45:28.Andrew Neil will be talking to the Housing Minister Gavin Barwell
:45:29. > :45:30.about his plans to increase the number of affordable
:45:31. > :45:32.homes being built. And Ellie Price reports
:45:33. > :45:34.on the haggling to come over That's the Sunday Politics
:45:35. > :45:39.at 11am, here on BBC One. The Sunday Times this morning
:45:40. > :45:42.describes it as a "savaging". Essentially, MPs have concluded
:45:43. > :45:45.that the Department for Transport can't properly run the privatised
:45:46. > :45:54.rail system so many Britons rely on. And this comes after months of utter
:45:55. > :45:57.misery for Southern rail commuters. Another, the RMT, most
:45:58. > :46:00.emphatically has not. Chris Grayling, the man
:46:01. > :46:14.in the hot seat, joins me now. This is a very important report by
:46:15. > :46:19.MPs and they have concluded that the transport department is not fit for
:46:20. > :46:23.purpose when it comes to the rail system. Are you going to look again
:46:24. > :46:28.at the way you handle franchises? Let's be clear what the problem is,
:46:29. > :46:34.they are bursting at the seams, the number of passengers has doubled,
:46:35. > :46:38.trains are full. That's a big challenge we have got to address. I
:46:39. > :46:42.agree with a lot of what's in the report, it doesn't quite paint the
:46:43. > :46:46.picture you have just done, it made sensible recommendations about how
:46:47. > :46:50.to improve things, many of which I'm already doing. They say there is not
:46:51. > :46:53.enough coordination between rail and the infrastructure operator, the
:46:54. > :46:59.truck operator and the train companies. I agree with that, before
:47:00. > :47:06.Christmas I set out plans to reunite track and trained step-by-step. And
:47:07. > :47:12.they make a number of sensible suggestions, some of which I'm
:47:13. > :47:14.doing. They say there have been recent circumstances which are
:47:15. > :47:23.franchised operator might have been exposed to substantial risk... A
:47:24. > :47:28.substantial degree of risk but the department chose to insulated. The
:47:29. > :47:37.risk remains with the taxpayer. If you look at what has happened, and
:47:38. > :47:40.you are talking about southern rail. The operator is effectively a
:47:41. > :47:43.management contract rather than exposed to financial risk and the
:47:44. > :47:47.reason for that is we are currently putting a large amount of money into
:47:48. > :47:51.modernising London Bridge station. It's meant a huge amount of
:47:52. > :47:54.disruption over the last few years and the judgment of the department
:47:55. > :47:57.at the time was that the price we would pay to allow the private
:47:58. > :48:01.sector to carry the risk of disruption as a result of those
:48:02. > :48:12.works was greater than they wished to pay... Sorry, to a lot of people
:48:13. > :48:15.watching this must seem bonkers. The private company gets the prophets
:48:16. > :48:17.and the taxpayer takes the risk and the result has been catastrophic. It
:48:18. > :48:21.is an exceptional circumstance because of the scale of
:48:22. > :48:23.modernisation on the Thames Link programme, the biggest
:48:24. > :48:30.infrastructure investment in our mainline railways for a long time.
:48:31. > :48:34.Everywhere else on the railway people take financial risk, this was
:48:35. > :48:41.a special case. Can at least we say this kind of contract will never be
:48:42. > :48:45.done again? It's interesting because some, like the Mayor of London, are
:48:46. > :48:49.saying that is precisely what we should be doing. I want to see the
:48:50. > :48:54.private sector much more involved in the infrastructure in the future.
:48:55. > :48:58.People don't understand why someone once the tracks and someone runs the
:48:59. > :49:02.trains. They want one team running the railways, planning for the
:49:03. > :49:13.future, and making sure there is one team dealing with problems when they
:49:14. > :49:17.happen. Because the taxpayer was still paying, they still got their
:49:18. > :49:24.profit which removed pressure on them during the strike some people
:49:25. > :49:28.believe you wanted Southern Rail to break the union is because you were
:49:29. > :49:31.going to spread the system right across the UK. No, it was done
:49:32. > :49:35.because of the London Bridge investment. If you had seen the
:49:36. > :49:38.management team at work in the last few months nobody would believe they
:49:39. > :49:44.wanted this to happen and indeed the company has been taking a huge hit
:49:45. > :49:48.reputation lay in the last few months because of the strike action
:49:49. > :49:53.so I don't think you could say anybody wanted this. In the last
:49:54. > :49:58.week, they reached agreement in the Aslef dispute and I very much hope
:49:59. > :50:02.now the other union, RMT, will come back to the table and sort out an
:50:03. > :50:06.arrangement that looks after its own members. My commitment to them and
:50:07. > :50:10.everyone involved in this railway, I don't believe we need fewer people
:50:11. > :50:13.on the railways. They may do slightly different jobs, but a
:50:14. > :50:28.railway of its bursting at the seams in my view needs staffing. So
:50:29. > :50:33.particularly on long-distance trains you need a guard as well. I travel a
:50:34. > :50:36.lot on trains and you see disabled people, you see people struggling
:50:37. > :50:39.and they need someone from the railway system who is not driving
:50:40. > :50:44.the train to help them, you would agree with that? I am absolutely of
:50:45. > :50:47.the view that we will need as many staff in the future providing
:50:48. > :50:54.support to the customers as we have today. Their jobs may change, the
:50:55. > :50:58.technology may change, but the customer service cannot change.
:50:59. > :51:03.Another issue is HS2. Lord MacPherson said he thinks it is
:51:04. > :51:06.running wildly over budget, it is simply too expensive. ?90 billion
:51:07. > :51:12.could be spent much more effectively on other parts of the railway system
:51:13. > :51:16.or the road system, isn't he right? We have a rail system that is
:51:17. > :51:20.bursting at the seams, we have to take a decision about what we want
:51:21. > :51:26.for the future. Do we want a rail system that can carry more
:51:27. > :51:32.passengers? HS2 is all about that. It will mean thousands more commuter
:51:33. > :51:40.seeds into Euston station in a peak day morning rush-hour. The same is
:51:41. > :51:44.true in Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester. It's about creating
:51:45. > :51:49.extra capacity. We cannot deliver a rail that is fit for the future
:51:50. > :51:55.without extra capacity, and if you are going to build a railway line,
:51:56. > :51:58.why wouldn't you build a state-of-the-art one? Because a lot
:51:59. > :52:03.of people say it is already out of date. Let me ask about London
:52:04. > :52:06.particular. What hope can you give to people in north London who are
:52:07. > :52:10.terrified about the amount of pollution and disruption that will
:52:11. > :52:16.be caused for 20 years? Bits of Camden will be wiped off the map. We
:52:17. > :52:21.are currently working through a plan that I think will ease that impact.
:52:22. > :52:25.I want to keep the impact of construction of HS2 as low as
:52:26. > :52:28.possible to all communities affected up and down the route. You cannot
:52:29. > :52:33.build something of this scale without any impact but we will do
:52:34. > :52:38.what we can to minimise it. I want to ask, not long ago we were told
:52:39. > :52:42.the way forward was diesel cars, now we know more about the particulates
:52:43. > :52:45.put out by diesel cars and that they are seriously affecting the health
:52:46. > :52:52.of a lot of people and we want to get rid of diesel cars. There is
:52:53. > :52:58.some talk of a scrappage scheme, can you tell us anything about that? The
:52:59. > :53:02.reality is we need to address the problem, there is a public health
:53:03. > :53:07.issue. We started with diesel cars because we thought they would
:53:08. > :53:15.produce carbon emissions, we now realise there is a knock-on effect.
:53:16. > :53:20.The way we react cannot happen overnight but we have to work quite
:53:21. > :53:25.quickly. There's a number of options we are looking at. Andrea Leadsom is
:53:26. > :53:29.working through an air quality strategy which will be published in
:53:30. > :53:33.due course, but we recognise we have to do this. We recognise we need
:53:34. > :53:38.cleaner air in our cities and it is not something we can ignore. There
:53:39. > :53:44.is so much talk about on Brexit, I want to pick particular issue. Isn't
:53:45. > :53:47.it right that the end of this process, no matter what happens,
:53:48. > :53:52.whether we get a deal or not, the House of Commons, which is supposed
:53:53. > :53:55.to be sovereign, gets a proper vote? Theresa May has already promised
:53:56. > :53:59.there will be a vote at the end of it but the legal position is that if
:54:00. > :54:04.there is not a deal then we leave so the reality is we are going to go
:54:05. > :54:10.into negotiation with a view to delivering, negotiating a deal that
:54:11. > :54:13.is good for everyone. If there isn't a deal, shouldn't there be a vote
:54:14. > :54:18.about what happens next? It is a vast issue for the entire country,
:54:19. > :54:23.it will affect everyone in this country at that moment. The House of
:54:24. > :54:27.Commons should have a proper say on that, surely? The House of Commons
:54:28. > :54:33.voted for a referendum, we had a referendum, the people of the
:54:34. > :54:38.country gave's of view, we are following that through, we go into
:54:39. > :54:41.the negotiations with the full expectation that a sensible deal
:54:42. > :54:46.will be agreed which works for both sides. We are their biggest
:54:47. > :54:51.customer, I am confident Theresa May will deliver a good deal. But if
:54:52. > :54:55.that doesn't happen, Parliamentary sovereignty hasn't been suspended
:54:56. > :54:58.because of the Brexit referendum, it still matters, surely Parliament
:54:59. > :55:03.should get a vote come what may at the end of this process? Theresa May
:55:04. > :55:11.is committed to having a vote on that deal? If there is a deal? I'm
:55:12. > :55:15.confident we will get a deal. If you listen to what European leaders are
:55:16. > :55:20.saying, it is in all of our interests that is the case. You have
:55:21. > :55:26.said during this interview you don't want to see fewer workers on the
:55:27. > :55:34.railway in the future, any thing to say to the RMT union? I hope their
:55:35. > :55:38.workers will return back to work as normal. I am not in this job to
:55:39. > :55:43.slash the number of people on our railways. We need good customer
:55:44. > :55:50.service and their members will be part of that? And a message for
:55:51. > :55:55.Southern? I am grateful to the Southern team, the Aslef team, now
:55:56. > :56:03.we need the same with the RMT and a railway that is back to normal.
:56:04. > :56:08.Thanks for talking to us today. Join us from Southampton at ten,
:56:09. > :56:13.when we will be debating Britain's aid to asylum seekers, then
:56:14. > :56:18.transgender. Should everyone decide their own gender? Lastly, is child
:56:19. > :56:22.poverty set to rise even further? Ten o'clock on BBC One.
:56:23. > :56:27.Next week Chrissie Hynde and the Pretenders will
:56:28. > :56:30.For now, I'll leave you with the wonderful Tift Merrit,
:56:31. > :56:56.# He loves my mouth and he loves my hips
:56:57. > :57:02.# He won't back down and he won't make plans
:57:03. > :57:14.# He is as mean as a snake # It's my dusty old man
:57:15. > :57:24.# Yes, he is as mean as a snake, he's my dusty old man
:57:25. > :57:36.# He says loves me until the scars have gone
:57:37. > :57:48.# Dusty old man # Dusty old man
:57:49. > :57:51.# Here comes my dusty old man # The tears stained hard
:57:52. > :57:59.# This world cannot hand you what you want
:58:00. > :58:06.# All you can do sometimes is say damn!
:58:07. > :58:09.# And give your loving into a dusty old man
:58:10. > :58:15.# Give your loving to a dusty old man
:58:16. > :58:23.# Say love me enough to write my wrongs
:58:24. > :58:40.# Love me until the scars have gone # Love me enough to right my wrongs
:58:41. > :58:52.# Love me until the scars have gone # Dusty old man, here comes my dusty
:58:53. > :59:02.old man #. You should never turn down something
:59:03. > :59:17.you've never done before.