:00:00. > :00:07.Health, social care, the Speaker under siege.
:00:08. > :00:09.But in the Commons, Theresa May seems almost unchallenged -
:00:10. > :00:13.she's enjoyed bigger than expected majorities on Brexit and she has
:00:14. > :00:40.Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson, is one of the party's
:00:41. > :00:45.He's here to talk about leadership, the core vote and what he's called
:00:46. > :00:51.Should Parliament be rid of its turbulent -
:00:52. > :00:56.I'll be talking to the Leader of the Commons David Lidington.
:00:57. > :00:58.The NHS also faces an existential crisis.
:00:59. > :01:01.So says Robert Francis, chair of the inquiry
:01:02. > :01:18.I'm joined by one of the world's greatest composers, John Adams,
:01:19. > :01:26.And that timeless rocker Chrissie Hynde, back
:01:27. > :01:36.Corbyn supporting journalist and commentator Rachel Shabi,
:01:37. > :01:38.the Times columnist, David Aaronovitch and the
:01:39. > :01:49.But first, the news with Ben Thompson.
:01:50. > :01:51.The Commons Speaker, John Bercow, who was criticised
:01:52. > :01:54.by some MPs for his remarks about President Trump last week,
:01:55. > :01:56.is facing new pressure this morning about his impartiality.
:01:57. > :01:59.A video has emerged of him declaring that he voted Remain
:02:00. > :02:12.The film has been published by the Sunday Telegraph.
:02:13. > :02:15.This may not be popular with some people in this audience -
:02:16. > :02:19.I thought it was better to stay in the European Union than not,
:02:20. > :02:22.partly for economic reason, being part of a big trade bloc,
:02:23. > :02:25.and partly because I think we're in a world of power blocs,
:02:26. > :02:27.and I think for all the weaknesses and deficiencies
:02:28. > :02:30.of the European Union, it is better to be part of that big
:02:31. > :02:34.The Royal College of Surgeons and the organisation
:02:35. > :02:36.representing hospital trusts say thousands of
:02:37. > :02:38.operations are being cancelled because of a shortage of hospital
:02:39. > :02:43.They've made their warning in a joint letter to the Sunday Times.
:02:44. > :02:48.NHS England said only 1% of operations were being cancelled.
:02:49. > :02:50.14 retired bishops have written an open letter
:02:51. > :02:52.to Church of England leaders, accusing them of suppressing
:02:53. > :02:57.Last month, a Church of England report recommended a "fresh tone,
:02:58. > :03:02.and culture of welcome and support" for them but re-asserted
:03:03. > :03:08.The former bishops say that while the report spoke
:03:09. > :03:14.about the pain of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender
:03:15. > :03:18.people, it failed to reflect their authentic voices.
:03:19. > :03:21.North Korea has fired a ballistic missile into the Sea of Japan.
:03:22. > :03:23.The South Korean military said the flight distance
:03:24. > :03:29.The White House said President Trump had been briefed about the launch.
:03:30. > :03:31.The timing of the test coincides with the visit
:03:32. > :03:33.of the Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, to the US.
:03:34. > :03:38.Mr Abe said the test was "absolutely intolerable".
:03:39. > :03:40.The British Academy Film Awards will be presented tonight
:03:41. > :03:45.The Hollywood musical, La La Land, has the most
:03:46. > :03:51.I, Daniel Blake, Ken Loach's examination of life in the UK
:03:52. > :03:54.benefits system, is shortlisted in five categories.
:03:55. > :03:59.It's already won the coveted Palme d'Or Prize at the Cannes Festival.
:04:00. > :04:03.The next news on BBC One is at One o'clock.
:04:04. > :04:15.That mis-8 story arrived too late for the Sunday paper, there is the
:04:16. > :04:20.front of the Sunday tell graph with the Bercow story, it was their
:04:21. > :04:24.recording. A great picture from the extraordinary rugby match, Wales
:04:25. > :04:29.against England, much covered today, it was Wales' right until the last
:04:30. > :04:33.moment, an amazing game that. The Observer has a story you heard on
:04:34. > :04:36.the new, the gay relationship row inside the Church of England and the
:04:37. > :04:40.resulting by on the front-page. The Sunday Times, -- rugby. They have
:04:41. > :04:46.got a story about a secret search for a new Labour leader they say,
:04:47. > :04:54.this is based on internal party work, putting to polls of voters
:04:55. > :05:01.possible few chur leaders, a different political story, the Mail
:05:02. > :05:05.on Sunday Diane Abbott and David Davis had an encounter. We will talk
:05:06. > :05:07.about that later on. Much more in the paper, but those are the
:05:08. > :05:22.essences of the story. That story, John Bercow who seems to
:05:23. > :05:26.believe that the rules of Parliamentary neutrality don't apply
:05:27. > :05:29.to him. After coming after his outspoken remarks against President
:05:30. > :05:34.Trump which I think brings Parliament into disrepute because he
:05:35. > :05:39.is clearly under a duty to remain neutral, he has been found to be
:05:40. > :05:44.speaking in relation to Brexit, and of course, this is has serious
:05:45. > :05:51.implication because he will chair the debate in relation to the Brexit
:05:52. > :05:56.bill and for him to say I voted to stay, I think puts, puts him in an
:05:57. > :05:59.untenable position. There is about 12, I think Tory MPs who are already
:06:00. > :06:03.lined up a motion against him, the question is does this story then
:06:04. > :06:08.turn that 12 into many more and start a process that gives him an
:06:09. > :06:11.impossible week? I think there is a moral obligation for him to stand
:06:12. > :06:18.down. It very important that the Speaker is seen as being neutral and
:06:19. > :06:22.the rules are clear, it says that he must remain politically impartial at
:06:23. > :06:27.all times, if you want to be speaker and you get various privileges it is
:06:28. > :06:32.your duty and responsibility to remain impartial. So a wry smile
:06:33. > :06:38.over David's face. I think it is daft. Who possibly imagined that
:06:39. > :06:43.John Bercow didn't have an opinion? Incidentally one of the candidates
:06:44. > :06:48.who want him out is Jacob Rees-Mogg, no-one has the faintest idea want he
:06:49. > :06:52.thinks about Brexit do they. You have an opinion, Andrew but you are
:06:53. > :06:55.not allowed to voice it on this programme, but you will, when you go
:06:56. > :06:58.to schools tell them what you think about things and you won't say I
:06:59. > :07:03.can't have an opinion about it. We rely on you to do your job in the
:07:04. > :07:07.studio, we rely on the speaker to do his job in the House of Commons, not
:07:08. > :07:10.to be a political eunuch. The rules are clear, there is a reason behind
:07:11. > :07:16.the rules, they are not there for the sake of it. He is chairing the
:07:17. > :07:23.debates. It is important he is seen to be impartial, it doesn't say you
:07:24. > :07:26.must remain impartial while chairing the debate, it is all time, if he
:07:27. > :07:30.doesn't want the rules and express his opinion, he can have one, if he
:07:31. > :07:36.wants to express it don't take on the role. Rachel. He may be
:07:37. > :07:40.calculating that most MPs were pro-Remain and he relieses on the
:07:41. > :07:44.support of the House of Commons, so what he said, would be unpopular in
:07:45. > :07:47.the Sunday Sunday Telegraph and sections of the Conservative Party
:07:48. > :07:51.but might be popular on the floor of the House itself. And irrelevant to
:07:52. > :07:55.most of the population of the country who are more interested in
:07:56. > :08:00.the second news item about the NHS. We will talk more about that later
:08:01. > :08:04.in the show. Another big political story, the Labour Party. Something
:08:05. > :08:09.or nothing David? It is very difficult to tell.
:08:10. > :08:13.As far as, I have, a slight story to tell here which is that somebody
:08:14. > :08:16.texted me this morning, late last night, so this story would be
:08:17. > :08:20.appearing in the Sunday Times and I can tell you where it came from. I
:08:21. > :08:24.said are you sure about it? They said yes, it comes from Jon Trickett
:08:25. > :08:31.who was the campaign manager. I have to say.? We are been told, I can't
:08:32. > :08:34.test it. He left this week and the suggestion is that in addition to
:08:35. > :08:40.the normal polling that I do, the questions were asked of a focus
:08:41. > :08:44.group about a number of top Labour people, top Labour people recently
:08:45. > :08:49.Labour people and there was reaction taken to it. At one level this is a
:08:50. > :08:54.further push in the long ago anyof the Labour Party, which is now
:08:55. > :08:58.disintegrated, except for its capacity to fight some collections
:08:59. > :09:02.in some places and so on. At another level it is an indicator of the fact
:09:03. > :09:07.there is an incredible level of infighting going on, even among
:09:08. > :09:11.people who used to be described as Corbynistas, it is clear to people
:09:12. > :09:16.that he a realises his time is coming to an end. Rachel, described
:09:17. > :09:22.you as a Corbyn supporter, is that still the case? I mean, think, look,
:09:23. > :09:25.there were probably attempts to find a replacement for Corbyn since he
:09:26. > :09:33.was elected, the first time round, that said, I do think it is case
:09:34. > :09:39.that the people who did support him through two leadership elections
:09:40. > :09:43.will now be starting to feel concern and I think that is primarily over
:09:44. > :09:48.the way that Brexit was handled. Now, we know that the Labour Party
:09:49. > :09:53.has particular difficulties around Brexit, because of the way it
:09:54. > :09:56.breaks, in terms of being representative of both levers and
:09:57. > :10:00.remainor, that puts it in a unique situation that isn't much to do with
:10:01. > :10:05.Corbyn, but we know that is the country, that is who we are, the
:10:06. > :10:09.Labour, Labour Party voters are who we are, and therefore, there is an
:10:10. > :10:12.opportunity to be the leaders, to be the vision, to be the unity, that
:10:13. > :10:16.this country really needs, and I know it is easy for me to sit here
:10:17. > :10:21.around say, that is what should happen and the reality is very
:10:22. > :10:25.difficult, but I think that in some way the Labour Party has squandered
:10:26. > :10:33.an opportunity to be the vision that we need to get out of. I think the
:10:34. > :10:37.Labour Party is in difficulty and those difficulties will remain,
:10:38. > :10:42.whoever is in, whoever is the leader and those difficulties have to be
:10:43. > :10:46.addressed. We see the question asked on the front-page of The Observer,
:10:47. > :10:50.can anyone save the Labour Party? One doesn't want to be apocalyptic
:10:51. > :10:54.or extreme about this, but is it possible, is it possible that we are
:10:55. > :11:01.about to see the end of the Labour Party, as a national force? The big
:11:02. > :11:03.thing is that the electoral system in enormously advantages parties
:11:04. > :11:07.until a tipping point and the question is whether Labour passes
:11:08. > :11:11.beyond the inning point, which is round about 28% and so on. After
:11:12. > :11:16.that anything can happen. -- tipping point. We don't know the answer to
:11:17. > :11:19.that yet. If Jeremy Corbyn is leader and the present situation continues,
:11:20. > :11:24.and so on, until the next election through is a very real chance Labour
:11:25. > :11:27.will dip below the tipping point at that point we can't tell who will
:11:28. > :11:31.benefit from it. Let us turn to a story about one of Jeremy Corbyn 's
:11:32. > :11:34.current supporters, Diane Abbott who was in the House of Commons after
:11:35. > :11:40.the Brexit vote, and David Davis, the Brexit minister came up to her
:11:41. > :11:47.and what happened is contested but he has had some ungallant texts now
:11:48. > :11:52.leaked to the Mail on Sunday. Yes texts suggesting, he was blasted for
:11:53. > :11:57.actually he wasn't, he, what happened is he was supposed to have
:11:58. > :12:03.tried to kiss her after the Article 50 vote in Parliament and she told
:12:04. > :12:08.him to F off. He says he was whispering in her ear, you can see
:12:09. > :12:11.how that could be... The focus was not on his attempts to kiss her
:12:12. > :12:15.which are completely inappropriate, but on her response, and look,
:12:16. > :12:20.whatever we think, whatever you think of Diane Abbott's opinions, it
:12:21. > :12:26.is the case that being black and female subjects her to a level of
:12:27. > :12:32.abuse that is just off the scale, and David Davis is a man who is a
:12:33. > :12:35.public figure and there is a responsibility for people like him,
:12:36. > :12:41.to set a tone, which he has completely failed to do, in the way
:12:42. > :12:47.he has behaved. You are missing the key point. It is wrong to hang David
:12:48. > :12:52.Davis out to dry on what are private text, we aren titled to have private
:12:53. > :12:55.thoughts and conversations, with our friends, and this isn't something he
:12:56. > :13:00.has said in public, David Davis is not your typical Tory, he was
:13:01. > :13:04.brought up by a single mum, he did very well in grammar school. He is
:13:05. > :13:07.pushing Brexit through in a calm and controlled manner, we are all
:13:08. > :13:11.entitled to you know, a zone of privacy. I think that you know, he
:13:12. > :13:16.who has never texted in regret should cast the first stone here,
:13:17. > :13:20.really. That is right. To say he is part of the peat yar I can is
:13:21. > :13:23.ridiculous, he is a reasonable individual, he is a very dignified
:13:24. > :13:28.person, that rarely gets involved and this is the problem, when you
:13:29. > :13:32.are leaking, it is a private conversation, and I think we all
:13:33. > :13:36.regret now and again having a private conversation, and I think we
:13:37. > :13:41.should let the man be, as opposed to hounding him over you know, a few
:13:42. > :13:46.words. I was state educated do you think I am entitled to kiss Andrew?
:13:47. > :13:51.That is an issue. We don't want that on camera! Diane Abbott is very
:13:52. > :13:55.experienced and she is able the look after herself. That doesn't mean she
:13:56. > :13:59.should be subjected to this. This was private. If somebody did
:14:00. > :14:05.something against her she is entitled to say take a hike and that
:14:06. > :14:11.is what she did. Now to another man. Trump aid. Yes, this is one of a
:14:12. > :14:16.couple of stories, big stories about the Trump visit, whenever that is
:14:17. > :14:20.going to happen. People seem toe have accepted whatever they think
:14:21. > :14:24.about Mr Bercow, that they won't be an address to particlement, and now
:14:25. > :14:29.they are talking about whether or not Trump can come to London at all.
:14:30. > :14:33.And so couple of things that are throated, that he will be sent to
:14:34. > :14:39.Birmingham where there was a vote of 450,000 in the Brexit thing, and
:14:40. > :14:45.Leave won by 3,000 because that supposed to the Brexit heartland.
:14:46. > :14:50.And an insider, in the White House, not named, said what he would like
:14:51. > :14:55.to do is to do a Poppy Appeal from Wembley Stadium or the Cardiff
:14:56. > :14:58.Millennium Stadium, also a Remain area as it happens. I don't know
:14:59. > :15:01.what the British Legion thinks about it but I don't think they are going
:15:02. > :15:05.to be impressed. This is turning out to be an embarrassing story for the
:15:06. > :15:10.Government, because the invitation has been offered an accepted. He is
:15:11. > :15:15.coming but now because of what is going on they are moved it away from
:15:16. > :15:20.London, this is supposed to make Trump feel warm and Britain and help
:15:21. > :15:25.us get a trade deal. It is not going so well.
:15:26. > :15:31.Even Donald Trump must be getting the message that Britain does not
:15:32. > :15:45.want him to come. There has been overwhelming disapproval about this
:15:46. > :15:50.state visit Doctor. The fact that Theresa May invited him over so
:15:51. > :15:54.swiftly was seen as embarrassing and distasteful by many. In Poland it
:15:55. > :16:00.has shown he is not welcome. I find it amusing idea that he will get a
:16:01. > :16:05.better reception in Birmingham, one of our most cosmopolitan cities will
:16:06. > :16:09.stop a reasonably quick response, Laura? I think people need to
:16:10. > :16:15.understand you are not inviting Donald Trump over as your mate, you
:16:16. > :16:18.are inviting him in his role as president of the United States. You
:16:19. > :16:23.probably don't like another person but I think it is best not to trash
:16:24. > :16:28.your national assets in public. I think what John Bercow did was
:16:29. > :16:34.wrong. He is a key ally, you are inviting him as president of the
:16:35. > :16:39.United States. You have to move on. We have to move on ourselves. David,
:16:40. > :16:46.there is one last story from the Telegraph. Another of my roles is to
:16:47. > :16:50.chair an organisation about freedom of expression. The Law Society is
:16:51. > :16:55.recommending a possible change in the law, a new espionage act which
:16:56. > :16:58.would have the effect of criminalising the possession of
:16:59. > :17:06.official documents about the economy if it was passed. That seems to
:17:07. > :17:12.Coney and? Laura passed out that a Law Commission idea is far from
:17:13. > :17:23.stack to it but it is rather chilling prospect -- Laura pointed
:17:24. > :17:26.out that this is far from a state law. Thank you all of you.
:17:27. > :17:28.The weather - another desperately dreary week -
:17:29. > :17:32.It wasn't even really snow, just a thin skitter.
:17:33. > :17:39.Matt Taylor is in the BBC weather centre.
:17:40. > :17:45.Thank you very much, Andrew. We will see some more snow this afternoon
:17:46. > :17:51.across the hills of northern England. Maybe a thin coating for
:17:52. > :17:57.other parts of north-east England. There will be an extra of rain,
:17:58. > :18:09.sleet and snow here. On higher ground some snow but the rest of the
:18:10. > :18:15.country will be dry. Another chilly day. It stays windy through tonight.
:18:16. > :18:18.Mist and fog over higher ground. Lots of cloud in the northern half
:18:19. > :18:23.of the UK to take us into Monday morning. In the south-west it will
:18:24. > :18:27.get warmer through the night rather than colder. The stronger of the
:18:28. > :18:33.winds on Monday, particularly for North coasts and around parts of
:18:34. > :18:37.western Wales. A lot more sunshine on Monday to the west and south of
:18:38. > :18:41.the UK. Eastern parts of Scotland and eastern England will hold on to
:18:42. > :18:46.the cloud, the greatest of the conditions with some damp weather at
:18:47. > :18:50.times. The chill will be going. While some of us are struggling to
:18:51. > :18:54.get to 4 degrees today, by midweek we will have highs into double
:18:55. > :19:00.figures. Andrea. So how bad are things
:19:01. > :19:03.in the NHS really? Four years ago, Sir Robert Francis's
:19:04. > :19:05.inquiry into the mid-Staffordshire hospital scandal found evidence
:19:06. > :19:07.of "appalling suffering" by patients But this winter, pressures
:19:08. > :19:16.on the NHS in England have reached a point which ministers
:19:17. > :19:31.concede is "unacceptable". Welcome, Sir Robert. Good morning.
:19:32. > :19:37.You have talked about the NHS being at a great level of stress. How bad
:19:38. > :19:43.are things in your view? I think they are pretty bad. We have a
:19:44. > :19:46.virtual storm of financial pressures, increased demand,
:19:47. > :19:51.difficulties finding staffing and pressures on the service to continue
:19:52. > :19:56.delivering. Some of that sounds quite familiar. Those were the
:19:57. > :20:00.conditions pertaining at the time of Mid Staffordshire. Things have
:20:01. > :20:02.changed since then. The fact we are talking about this today in the way
:20:03. > :20:16.that we are, the secretary of state says
:20:17. > :20:19.things are unacceptable shows there is a greater level of transparency.
:20:20. > :20:21.People are talking about the problems in a way they were not
:20:22. > :20:24.before. The system is running extremely hot at the moment. It is
:20:25. > :20:29.only running with the superhuman efforts of the staff in the NHS. It
:20:30. > :20:36.cannot carry on like that indefinitely without something bad
:20:37. > :20:39.going wrong. To remind people, the mid-Staffs scandal was horrific,
:20:40. > :20:43.people lying in their own faeces and people dying earlier than they might
:20:44. > :20:50.have done, awful tales of cruelty and neglect, when you say we might
:20:51. > :20:54.see in other mid-Staffs, isn't that overdoing it? There are better
:20:55. > :20:57.safeguards in place in terms of transparency so I would like to
:20:58. > :21:01.think that before we got to that stage, that the problems would come
:21:02. > :21:10.to light. But I think the risks increase all the time. The pressure
:21:11. > :21:13.keeps getting worse and we know that more and more chief executives are
:21:14. > :21:19.saying they cannot meet their financial targets. More and more
:21:20. > :21:25.hospitals haven't got staff they planned to have and things are being
:21:26. > :21:29.done about all these things, but the faster the engine has to run, the
:21:30. > :21:35.more effort that has to be made in repairing it, the greater the risks.
:21:36. > :21:40.We seem to be stuck in a spiral of the stories where the government
:21:41. > :21:43.says we are putting in enough money and then there is another scandal
:21:44. > :21:47.and crisis and we go round and round and round. Do we think we are at the
:21:48. > :21:52.point as a country where we need to think about a different way of
:21:53. > :22:00.funding the NHS, a more consistent way of funding the NHS so we don't
:22:01. > :22:03.have these recurring crises? I don't think the problems are entirely due
:22:04. > :22:06.to money. Money can provide a sticking plaster and the history of
:22:07. > :22:14.the NHS has been that over a number of years, whenever there is a crisis
:22:15. > :22:23.more money is put in but we carry on doing things in the same way. Excuse
:22:24. > :22:27.me, I need to put my thing back on. I am sorry, BBC technology. But we
:22:28. > :22:34.have to revisit how we deliver the service. For instance, adult social
:22:35. > :22:40.care is also in a state of crisis, and if we don't change the way we do
:22:41. > :22:46.things, for instance, if we don't find better ways of avoiding people
:22:47. > :22:50.having to come to hospital, we will carry on repeating these crises. I
:22:51. > :22:54.am sorry about your earpiece, since I have got you here, can I ask you
:22:55. > :22:58.about the condition of whistle-blowers, because a lot of
:22:59. > :23:01.whistle-blowers feel in your report you did not give them enough
:23:02. > :23:05.safeguards against frankly bullying bosses who did not want their
:23:06. > :23:12.stories to come out and the rest of us depend on whistle-blowers to tell
:23:13. > :23:19.us what is going on in the NHS. I have made my proposals, the
:23:20. > :23:22.intention of which is to mean the raising of concerns is utterly
:23:23. > :23:27.normal and I think those reforms are embedded. We now have a network of
:23:28. > :23:33.freedom to speak up guardians around all hospitals. They should all have
:23:34. > :23:36.one now, to whom people can go when they have a problem about raising
:23:37. > :23:40.concerns. There is a national guardian to make sure the network
:23:41. > :23:46.gets the support it needs. The problems will not be solved just by
:23:47. > :23:50.helping individual whistle-blowers. We need to make sure that the staff
:23:51. > :23:58.who currently say things are going wrong on this and two. They have the
:23:59. > :24:03.solutions often to the problems they meet on a day-to-day basis and I do
:24:04. > :24:04.believe that is necessary. Very interesting, thank you for joining
:24:05. > :24:07.us. John Adams is revered by many
:24:08. > :24:10.Americans as their greatest living composer, but accused
:24:11. > :24:14.by a minority of anti-semitism. His work has divided critics,
:24:15. > :24:16.provoked protests, but filled Adams turns 70 this week,
:24:17. > :24:21.and believes that his best work He came into the studio recently,
:24:22. > :24:25.and we discussed the controversies that have been attached
:24:26. > :24:27.to his music, the political element to it, and why he won't be
:24:28. > :24:30.writing "Donald Trump - I don't pick the subjects
:24:31. > :24:41.to be provocative. is going to have any currency
:24:42. > :24:46.as a living art form, it really has to address the great
:24:47. > :24:56.themes of our lives. So I have an opera about terrorism,
:24:57. > :25:00.the death of Klinghoffer, an opera about Communism
:25:01. > :25:04.versus capitalism, The death of Klinghoffer,
:25:05. > :25:18.which you mention, caused a kind of paroxysm of anger in parts
:25:19. > :25:20.of America, and you felt that you were being
:25:21. > :25:24.trailed around America and weren't entirely safe there for a while,
:25:25. > :25:29.do you still feel that? I experienced with some people,
:25:30. > :25:31.experience which is an attack basically on the internet,
:25:32. > :25:34.and it was from people who didn't want all sides of a very delicate
:25:35. > :25:38.issue, which in this case was Israel
:25:39. > :25:43.and Palestine, to be aired. And Rudy Giuliani led protests
:25:44. > :25:47.against the opera in public, and he now may well be a very
:25:48. > :25:50.powerful figure in America, Well, Rudy Giuliani said
:25:51. > :25:57.he had my operas on his iPod. I think he said in his best
:25:58. > :26:00.New Yorkese, "John Adams is a good composer but his
:26:01. > :26:05.politics are wrong." You know, we're in a period
:26:06. > :26:10.when everything has been turned upside down, both here in England
:26:11. > :26:13.and in the US, so it's after that period, do you have any
:26:14. > :26:22.regrets at all about the opera Well, I think the addressing
:26:23. > :26:28.of my opera was from people I mean, the great Supreme Court
:26:29. > :26:34.Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg was in the Metropolitan Opera
:26:35. > :26:38.Theatre that same night, and she herself is Jewish,
:26:39. > :26:41.and she said she found nothing that was even remotely
:26:42. > :26:45.anti-Semitic about it, that it was an opera that expressed
:26:46. > :26:49.both sides of this But the family themselves,
:26:50. > :26:53.the daughters in particular, They were, but the interesting thing
:26:54. > :26:58.was they had collaborated earlier on two movies,
:26:59. > :27:00.which told the story So I don't think there was any issue
:27:01. > :27:06.of invading their privacy. Now as we have said, you have done
:27:07. > :27:09.lots of big political operas and you have put Nixon
:27:10. > :27:28.on to the stage. And it has to be said that
:27:29. > :27:31.Donald Trump is a kind of operatic I wonder if there's any attraction
:27:32. > :27:36.in doing Donald Trump, The Opera? Well, I don't think so,
:27:37. > :27:39.because I think at the moment people it's a kind of, to me a very tacky
:27:40. > :27:49.form of television entertainment, that he's employing
:27:50. > :27:52.to run the presidency. I don't think it is
:27:53. > :27:54.really interesting, going on in America at the moment,
:27:55. > :28:01.and you're doing something Is that as much about the modern day
:28:02. > :28:08.as it is about back in the 1890s? It's interesting for me,
:28:09. > :28:11.because it's an opera that goes back into the past, the past
:28:12. > :28:16.of my home state of California, and looks at a period in American
:28:17. > :28:20.history where people were just consumed with greed,
:28:21. > :28:24.and also with a kind of nativism and racism we have seen emerge over
:28:25. > :28:29.the the last year in the Presidential campaign,
:28:30. > :28:33.so I think, you know, the parallels between Silicon Valley
:28:34. > :28:36.and between what's happening politically in the United States
:28:37. > :28:40.will come to play in this new opera. John, you are now
:28:41. > :28:42.the most successful, composer of what is called classical
:28:43. > :28:50.music in the world, I guess. What is classical music,
:28:51. > :28:52.how do you understand it, how do you describe your own
:28:53. > :28:57.music for those people You know, my parents were both
:28:58. > :29:04.jazz musicians, and, You saw a lot of rock and pop music
:29:05. > :29:09.as you were are geowng up. Of course, I came of age during
:29:10. > :29:12.the period of Sergeant Peppers You know, as Leonard Bernstein
:29:13. > :29:17.showed, we in America, we make very little difference
:29:18. > :29:21.between classical and pop. into the other and that is certainly
:29:22. > :29:25.the case with my music. I must ask you, do you have
:29:26. > :29:29.a lot more things that You know, my great inspiration
:29:30. > :29:34.of course is Beethoven, because as he aged he got deeper
:29:35. > :29:39.and his music became even better, and I feel that, you know,
:29:40. > :29:42.what I have to write over the next ten or 20 years,
:29:43. > :29:45.if I'm lucky enough, will be better than anything
:29:46. > :29:47.I've done even before. John Adams, thank you very
:29:48. > :29:50.much for talking to us. And John Adams will be conducting
:29:51. > :29:55.the BBC Symphony Orchestra They'll be performing a concert
:29:56. > :29:58.staging of his haunting These are dramatic times
:29:59. > :30:07.in Parliament with convulsions over Brexit, Donald Trump and the future
:30:08. > :30:10.of the Commons Speaker himself. I'm joined by the leader of the
:30:11. > :30:20.House of Commons, David Lidington. Mr Lidington, do, did you personally
:30:21. > :30:24.feel any anxiety when you saw what John Bercow said about his hostility
:30:25. > :30:28.to Brexit, in public? Well, as I understand it, I have seen the TV
:30:29. > :30:32.clip, this was in answer to a question he got at an open meeting
:30:33. > :30:36.at Reading University, I think had this been before the referendum,
:30:37. > :30:42.that yes, I would have had concern, I mean, he said what he said, every
:30:43. > :30:50.member is responsible for what they say. What I can say is I have more
:30:51. > :30:53.than six years under David Cameron, I never found the speaker was shy of
:30:54. > :30:58.calling lots of people who are critical of the EU to ask me
:30:59. > :31:03.difficult questions. So if you go on to website of the House of Commons
:31:04. > :31:07.and you go to speaker, it says the speaker is the highest authority of
:31:08. > :31:10.the House of Commons and must remain politically impartial at all times.
:31:11. > :31:16.And there is is a lot of MPs in your own party who feel he has breached
:31:17. > :31:19.that rule. Yes, the, there will be strong reaction among some MPs to
:31:20. > :31:25.what he said, particularly after what he said about the proposed
:31:26. > :31:28.state visit earlier in the week, ultimately, you know, the Speaker
:31:29. > :31:33.has to command the confidence of the House of Commons as a whole. The
:31:34. > :31:39.speaker has to have cross-party authority. These are live issues the
:31:40. > :31:43.Commons will be debating for the next 18 months. Alex Shellbrook says
:31:44. > :31:49.John Bercow's comments are in clear breach of the guidelines, laid down
:31:50. > :31:52.on the independence of the speaker of the House and James Duddridge
:31:53. > :31:57.says Speaker Bercow cannot come back to the chair, having expressed views
:31:58. > :32:00.on Brexit. He is incapable of chairing Parliament as the speaker
:32:01. > :32:04.on any European business, do you agree with that? That is their
:32:05. > :32:10.opinion. It is a matter for members of the House. It is what is really
:32:11. > :32:17.important is that the Government doesn't get involved in saying who
:32:18. > :32:22.the speaker ought to be the speaker is the elected chairman of the House
:32:23. > :32:25.of Commons as a whole, it's really, not the creature of Government.
:32:26. > :32:29.Presumably he has embarrassed the Government and you over the Trump
:32:30. > :32:32.visit. I assume you have had conversation about moving the haves
:32:33. > :32:35.as a result of what happened? The Trump visit is still under
:32:36. > :32:40.discussion between the two governments, as with any state visit
:32:41. > :32:43.there is a range of variables, the diaries on both sides, what makes up
:32:44. > :32:49.a good programme, when is the right times? Have you had discussion about
:32:50. > :32:52.whether Donald Trump should address the two Chambers of Parliament? The
:32:53. > :32:56.speaker, and I talked obviously to the Prime Minister, I talked to the
:32:57. > :33:01.speaker from time to time about all sorts of thing, but the arrangements
:33:02. > :33:03.for the state visits are conducted between Number Ten and Buckingham
:33:04. > :33:07.Palace, arranging and the White House, on behalf of the President.
:33:08. > :33:13.My understanding is those conversations are still ongoing,
:33:14. > :33:16.when it comes to whether any state visit should address Parliament,
:33:17. > :33:20.that doesn't happen with every state visit nor is there a set venue, it
:33:21. > :33:25.is one of the options available. So what we know is that a lot of Tory
:33:26. > :33:29.MPs are livid with him about Trump and about Brexit. My question is do
:33:30. > :33:33.you think he can survive the week ahead? Do you think this will come
:33:34. > :33:37.to a vote, there has been a motion of no confidence put down, will it
:33:38. > :33:43.be voted upon? There is a motion been put down the day before we
:33:44. > :33:48.broke for the half-term recess, it will be for all Members of
:33:49. > :33:54.Parliament, individually, cross-party to decide how they
:33:55. > :33:57.respond. How would you vote? I am a member of the Government, it is a
:33:58. > :34:01.matter for the House as a whole. It sounds as if you can confidence in
:34:02. > :34:03.Speaker Bercow. I said the government this is determineded this
:34:04. > :34:07.is a matter for the House as a whole. It is important for the very
:34:08. > :34:12.independence of the speaker's office that the speaker earthquake when
:34:13. > :34:14.they started as a Conservative or Labour MP, whatever is independence
:34:15. > :34:18.of Government. Speakers if anything should lean towards the people who
:34:19. > :34:23.are not in Government. As John Bercow probe has done in the way he
:34:24. > :34:29.has used questions which we find convenient. Your instinct is he
:34:30. > :34:31.might win if it comes to a vote? He has strong supporters as well as
:34:32. > :34:35.strong critics in the House of Commons. But we shall have to see
:34:36. > :34:39.how members as a whole respond. There is some strange things been
:34:40. > :34:43.said on behalf of the Government about the House of Lords. If the
:34:44. > :34:48.House of Lords seeks to amend the Article 50 legislation, do you think
:34:49. > :34:52.it should be challenged or everyone established, or reformed as some of
:34:53. > :34:56.your colleagues seem to think? We have a constitutional process, the
:34:57. > :34:59.fact that the exit bill has gone to the House of Lords, Article 50 has
:35:00. > :35:05.gone to House of Lords with a majority of more than 300 from the
:35:06. > :35:07.House of Commons, and unamended and frankly the amendments are all
:35:08. > :35:11.defeated by majorities in excess, well in excess of the vt Gough's
:35:12. > :35:14.normal majority, is a pretty powerful message to the Lords, they
:35:15. > :35:20.have got a proper constitutional duty to examine that. Of course they
:35:21. > :35:22.are free to propose and debate amendments. I hope they will take
:35:23. > :35:29.full account of the strength of opinion from the elected House. It
:35:30. > :35:31.sounds to me normal majority, is a pretty powerful message to the
:35:32. > :35:34.Lords, they have got a proper constitutional duty to examine that.
:35:35. > :35:36.Of course they are free to propose and debate amendments. I hope they
:35:37. > :35:39.will take full account of the strength of opinion from the elected
:35:40. > :35:41.House. It sounds to me as a coded threats, "I wouldn't go there if I
:35:42. > :35:44.was you. Something nasty might happen to you." I am not round the
:35:45. > :35:47.back alley waiting for a stray peer with a cosh in my hand. It is this,
:35:48. > :35:49.there is under the constitutional arrangement there has been
:35:50. > :35:53.acceptance, the Lords has a proper role as a scrutinising and reviewing
:35:54. > :35:56.chamber, but ultimately, the Commons is the elected chamber, and behind
:35:57. > :36:00.the Commons on this occasion stands the vote of a referendum. One final
:36:01. > :36:04.question, we have heard from opposition leaders that the fight is
:36:05. > :36:08.just about to start on the Brexit bill, over the next 18 months are
:36:09. > :36:11.there going to be moments in the Commons where there will be
:36:12. > :36:14.substantive and important votes on aspects of the negotiations as they
:36:15. > :36:19.go forward or are we waiting for the vote at the end of the process? I
:36:20. > :36:24.think that would, it depends crucially on what kind of amendments
:36:25. > :36:27.are tabled and are found to be in order and debated and how people
:36:28. > :36:32.respond to those, we have got the bill that will come in after the
:36:33. > :36:35.Queen's Speech to repeal the European Communities Act and put EU
:36:36. > :36:41.legal obligation on the UK basis, we will need a number of additional
:36:42. > :36:46.pieces of statute, over the next couple of year, to give the British
:36:47. > :36:50.authorities the power to do things that are at present done by the EU.
:36:51. > :36:55.So there will be opportunities for votes. There will be plenty of
:36:56. > :36:59.opportunity, obviously the precise nature depends on what the motions
:37:00. > :37:04.are, what the amendments are. I talk to people who have been over in
:37:05. > :37:09.Brussels looking at this from the other side. They say they think we
:37:10. > :37:12.might get a frictionless, low tariff access to the single market. That
:37:13. > :37:18.might be doable but on the other hand, the French and the Germans and
:37:19. > :37:22.others are determined to get their so call divorce settlement, the
:37:23. > :37:25.40-60 billion euros paid by the UK Government and that will be usual
:37:26. > :37:29.issue, if the Tory MPs who think that is far too much and shouldn't
:37:30. > :37:34.happen, will they get a chance to make their voices heard in the House
:37:35. > :37:38.of Commons? There will be a vote on the final deal, the Prime Minister's
:37:39. > :37:43.made that clear, I am sure that in the course of legislation and
:37:44. > :37:46.frankly the statements we will have, there will be lots of opportunity to
:37:47. > :37:49.probe issues connected with the negotiation, but the negotiations
:37:50. > :37:54.haven't started yet. At the moment we are seeing initial positioning on
:37:55. > :37:57.the side of the 27. They haven't met formally to discuss their opening
:37:58. > :38:02.negotiating mandate so we have a long way ahead of it. David
:38:03. > :38:05.David Lidington, thank you very much indeed.
:38:06. > :38:07.Now - coming up later this morning, Andrew Neil will be talking
:38:08. > :38:11.to Labour's leader in the House of Lords - as peers gear up
:38:12. > :38:14.Plus the latest from the Stoke by-election campaign trail,
:38:15. > :38:16.where Labour are being pushed hard by Ukip.
:38:17. > :38:19.That's the Sunday Politics at 11 here on BBC One.
:38:20. > :38:21.Few women in rock have had the musical and cultural
:38:22. > :38:25.Arriving in London 40 years ago - just in time for punk -
:38:26. > :38:28.she seized the opportunity to create a band that has stood
:38:29. > :38:32.The Pretenders were a non-stop hit machine and the first Pretenders
:38:33. > :38:34.album in almost a decade is one that's been getting
:38:35. > :38:39.Before I talk to Chrissie - who's going to be playing for us later -
:38:40. > :38:47.let's have a listen to the single, Holy Commotion.
:38:48. > :38:59.# I just want, I want, I want to see the light.
:39:00. > :39:05.# I just want, I want, I want to dance all night.
:39:06. > :39:21.That was Chrissie Hynde and The Pretenders but there aren't many
:39:22. > :39:28.left alive Martin Chambers, yes. Most of the band has gone Pete and
:39:29. > :39:31.Jimmy died in 1983. I was watching a little film you made alongside this
:39:32. > :39:34.where you make it clear that for you, the central thing in life is
:39:35. > :39:40.still live performance. Absolutely. Yes. Why is that? Well, it's, it's
:39:41. > :39:45.fun and that is what we do and what we kind of trained ourself to do
:39:46. > :39:49.since we were teenagers, and that, our vocation, that is when it
:39:50. > :39:54.happens when you are on the road. So what is different from a Pretenders
:39:55. > :40:01.album to a Chrissie Hynde album? Nothing, really. I called it my last
:40:02. > :40:06.album Chrissie Hynde because I was tired of defending the band ethos
:40:07. > :40:11.which is what it is. So rock music, particularly punk was created by
:40:12. > :40:16.16-year-olds and 17-year-olds, about their interest, lust and loneliness
:40:17. > :40:21.and angst and so on. You are 65, still performing, what is it about
:40:22. > :40:28.now? I don't think any of us saw it comes we would still be doing it
:40:29. > :40:34.this long, when I was 24 I thought I was too old then punk came along and
:40:35. > :40:38.I snuck in. It is about social commentary, personal, you know. What
:40:39. > :40:41.life feels like. Yes, that doesn't change, but the world changes. We
:40:42. > :40:43.are looking forward to hearing you later on. Thank you for coming in.
:40:44. > :40:47.Tom Watson was last here on this chair in September 2015,
:40:48. > :40:49.just after Jeremy Corbyn and he had stormed to victory
:40:50. > :40:51.in Labour's leadership and deputy leadership contest.
:40:52. > :40:53.His declared mission then - to get Labour fighting fit
:40:54. > :41:10.I am still recovering from being in the same studio as Chrissie Hynde
:41:11. > :41:15.there, I wasn't expecting that. We have had a tough 18 month, we had a
:41:16. > :41:18.damaging second leadership election so we have an uphill struggle ahead.
:41:19. > :41:23.The polls aren't great for us but I am determined now we have got the
:41:24. > :41:28.leadership settled for this Parliament, that we can focus on
:41:29. > :41:31.developing a very positive clear message to the British people in a
:41:32. > :41:35.general election. All round the place there is a kind of withdrawing
:41:36. > :41:39.roar of people no longer having confidence that you can win, are you
:41:40. > :41:43.yourself convinced the Labour Party can win a general election in this
:41:44. > :41:47.country? Yes, we could certainly win one, there is a lot of work to do,
:41:48. > :41:51.we need to make sure we address the concerns of the British people in a
:41:52. > :41:55.manifesto and we communicate our message more clearly than we have
:41:56. > :41:59.been doing, but yes, there is nothing to say Labour can't win a
:42:00. > :42:03.general election. I don't want to get into a debate where I say look
:42:04. > :42:08.at this and that is fine, look at that that and that is fine. We must
:42:09. > :42:13.look at one set of polling, possibly two. All the pollsters are showing
:42:14. > :42:18.the same gap, a big 13 or 14 point gap. Very bad for an opposition
:42:19. > :42:23.party at this point. Diane Abbott and others have said this gab will
:42:24. > :42:27.be closed in a year. Over the course of the next year, with the
:42:28. > :42:31.implication that if it isn't, something dramatic needs to happen,
:42:32. > :42:34.do you agree with that? I am not sure if setting those tests about
:42:35. > :42:38.when you, where you have to be in the polls are helpful, but not
:42:39. > :42:41.particularly unhelpful for our leader Jeremy Corbyn, but yes, if
:42:42. > :42:45.you want to win in a general election, you have to be leading the
:42:46. > :42:50.polls. Things have to start to turn round You have to have policies you
:42:51. > :42:54.can believe in and deliver on, that is is a big challenge for us. You
:42:55. > :42:58.have said there is an existential crisis facing the party. This goes
:42:59. > :43:06.back to Labour's history, it was created by an alliance between the
:43:07. > :43:09.organised working class on the one hand and intellectuals and on the
:43:10. > :43:13.other, they came together in a strange alliance, what it seems is
:43:14. > :43:20.that Brexit is breaking that apart. I did, I said we had an excel ten
:43:21. > :43:25.shall crisis last year when there was an impasse between our MPs and
:43:26. > :43:29.Jeremy, but you know, I do still think that people need a Labour
:43:30. > :43:33.Party, if you look at thele have as that underpin the Labour Party, the
:43:34. > :43:36.idea of the empowering state, that we want to reduce inequality, we
:43:37. > :43:41.want to give greater opportunity to even not just the few, those values
:43:42. > :43:45.are still enduring and we have been here before, where the working class
:43:46. > :43:50.and middle class people of Britain have been in alliance with each
:43:51. > :43:54.other, in the 1945 election... The question is are they still in
:43:55. > :43:59.alliance with each other? It is possible to have a manifesto that
:44:00. > :44:04.addresses the aspirations of both sets of voter, this, after 1945 when
:44:05. > :44:10.at Lee was leader there was concern? The trade unions we had too many
:44:11. > :44:14.middle class MPs, I hope we can make sure that we, the general election
:44:15. > :44:22.present the interest of both. This is about values and how people feel
:44:23. > :44:24.about life, Jon Cruddas who did work said since 2005, voters who are
:44:25. > :44:29.socially Conservative are the most likely to have deserted Labour, they
:44:30. > :44:37.value home, family, and their country. And Corbyn's cosmopolitan
:44:38. > :44:40.views on migration, the monarchy and Armed Forces are likely to have
:44:41. > :44:46.exacerbated that. There is is a point there. Jobs and homes is the
:44:47. > :44:49.bread and butter of politics and there are too many people... And
:44:50. > :44:53.country. There is no doubt about that. We need to convince people
:44:54. > :44:57.that we want this country to be great again, that if you live and
:44:58. > :45:02.work hard you can eventually own your own home, or rent a home at an
:45:03. > :45:06.affordable price, have a job that is satisfying and have a dignified
:45:07. > :45:11.retirement. You know. Make bring great again.
:45:12. > :45:25.Political parties who do not address those issues, that is what you have
:45:26. > :45:32.to look at. What I am asking is do the northern and West Country voters
:45:33. > :45:37.still feel attached to the party as they used to? Hope so because Labour
:45:38. > :45:42.is still the party of aspiration, if you come from a humble origins you
:45:43. > :45:44.will be able to get on in life with a Labour government. People still
:45:45. > :45:50.remember the great Labour governments. The idea that they
:45:51. > :45:55.don't need a party which challenges inequality and offers opportunity
:45:56. > :45:58.and hope, this is not correct. These are often socially conservative
:45:59. > :46:01.people in their views, they would stand for the national anthem, they
:46:02. > :46:06.are traditionalist and they often feel the Labour Party does not
:46:07. > :46:10.represent them. I would reject any notion where people would say the
:46:11. > :46:14.Labour Party are not a patriotic party. We are very proud of our
:46:15. > :46:18.country and proud of singing the national anthem. I am not sure of
:46:19. > :46:24.that is the issue. The issue is, what are the challenges facing this
:46:25. > :46:29.country? We are seeing people living in greater insecurity, the downside
:46:30. > :46:35.of greater globalisation. There is a next wave, and Industrial Revolution
:46:36. > :46:39.based around automation which will create more insecurity. I think if
:46:40. > :46:42.Labour can craft a policy which addresses those issues then we can
:46:43. > :46:48.have an exciting offer in the next general election and we can't win
:46:49. > :46:52.that election. Around the Brexit vote, you were in a Leave
:46:53. > :46:59.constituency and a lot of your voters voted Leave, do you agree
:47:00. > :47:03.immigration is crucial to the vote? Immigration was certainly one of the
:47:04. > :47:08.big issues in that referendum if not the issue. In that case what does
:47:09. > :47:15.that do for voters who hear the leadership saying there should be no
:47:16. > :47:19.upward limit or free movement might have to stay? We have to understand
:47:20. > :47:23.what people tell us and when the negotiations take place we do need
:47:24. > :47:27.to make sure that whatever replaces the freedom of movement arrangement
:47:28. > :47:31.allows us to say we control our borders, we want to be able to count
:47:32. > :47:35.people in and count them out, but also say it is completely
:47:36. > :47:38.unacceptable to leave European workers in uncertainty. We were very
:47:39. > :47:41.disappointed this week when the government did not give certainty
:47:42. > :47:46.that current European workers could stay here. And also extremely
:47:47. > :47:50.disappointed that the child refugees, that pledge which was a
:47:51. > :47:55.pledge by David Cameron, has been breached. I think you have to strike
:47:56. > :47:59.a balance. I know my colleague Diane Abbott who leads on this is in no
:48:00. > :48:02.doubt that unless we have a compelling policy on immigration at
:48:03. > :48:06.the next general election then we will not win. In a sense, one of
:48:07. > :48:09.your colleagues are said to me to reason may get us off this hook
:48:10. > :48:13.because after Brexit we will not have the free movement of people and
:48:14. > :48:14.then we will have a chance to start again and have a socialist
:48:15. > :48:32.immigration policy of our own that we can work through ourselves as the
:48:33. > :48:34.Labour Party and in that context, I want to ask do you think overall
:48:35. > :48:37.immigration in this country is too high or just right? I don't think
:48:38. > :48:39.you can say that. London requires more liberal immigration policies
:48:40. > :48:41.but there are other parts of the countries where immigration may be
:48:42. > :48:45.putting pressure on schools and hospitals. That is why when we come
:48:46. > :48:50.out of the European Union we could have an immigration policy which
:48:51. > :48:55.addresses both of those issues. Perhaps a regional policy? Perhaps
:48:56. > :48:58.indeed. These are nascent ideas. We are not robust to put them in a
:48:59. > :49:04.manifesto yet but there is certainly debate going on in the Labour Party
:49:05. > :49:09.right now and in wider circles. Your leader said after the Brexit vote,
:49:10. > :49:22.the real fight starts now. What does he mean? I agree with him.
:49:23. > :49:25.We have had a nine-month phoney war where the government have been
:49:26. > :49:28.trying to get their act together. What the vote signalled last week
:49:29. > :49:30.was the firing gun on the start of negotiations. Really? Emily
:49:31. > :49:33.Thornberry was here last week and she laid down some great tough old
:49:34. > :49:36.important Labour red lines. Every single one of them were obliterated
:49:37. > :49:41.in the vote. You and others voted with the government. It seems like
:49:42. > :49:45.the Battle is now over? I hope we can convince people that is not the
:49:46. > :49:51.case. We demanded a bill in parliament so we could raise these
:49:52. > :49:54.issues. The idea that we did not want to come out European Union
:49:55. > :50:00.without environmental protection, without human rights. When Theresa
:50:01. > :50:04.May is negotiating Europe we will be on her case day in, day out. She
:50:05. > :50:10.seems to be riding high in the Commons. She had big majorities for
:50:11. > :50:14.the Article 50 Bill. She seems unchallenged and hugely popular in
:50:15. > :50:18.the country. When you say the fight starts here, a lot of people will
:50:19. > :50:23.say where will this fight happen? How will it happen? What will be the
:50:24. > :50:27.crunch moments? It is true we do not have a majority in the House of
:50:28. > :50:31.Commons, otherwise we would be the government! But it is the case we
:50:32. > :50:41.will not keep applying pressure on the government to get a Brexit which
:50:42. > :50:44.benefits British workers. When and how? At the dispatch box, and TV
:50:45. > :50:49.interviews like this and in two years' time Theresa May will have to
:50:50. > :50:52.come back with the deal she has negotiated. There are a lot of
:50:53. > :50:55.people on the other side of the divide who are passionate remainders
:50:56. > :51:02.who are deeply disappointed and they feel the Labour Party who have
:51:03. > :51:08.become cheerleaders and have no way of altering Theresa May's planning?
:51:09. > :51:13.I reject the conclusion. I understand why people who believe in
:51:14. > :51:17.the EU are disappointed but we are a Democratic party. I don't think we
:51:18. > :51:23.had any choice but to respect the decision of the people in that
:51:24. > :51:28.referendum. There were direct democratic decisions which have
:51:29. > :51:31.trumped those of representative democracies. A referendum is a
:51:32. > :51:37.brutal tool, it does not allow you to deal with nuance and complexity
:51:38. > :51:40.after Woods but we have had to respect the decisions of the people
:51:41. > :51:44.to fire the starting gun but that does not mean we will not campaign
:51:45. > :51:49.for issues which we feel very important. When we spoke 18 months
:51:50. > :51:52.ago, you were clear that collective responsibility is important and
:51:53. > :51:56.seems to have collapsed in the Labour Party. All of those people
:51:57. > :52:01.who rebelled will get a stiff letter which will not exactly terrified
:52:02. > :52:08.them. We have had people who have left the Shadow Cabinet over this.
:52:09. > :52:12.Was Clive Lewis right to resign? He was right to resign if he felt he
:52:13. > :52:16.needed to vote against Article 50. I am not sure of his timing was
:52:17. > :52:21.particularly helpful. He could have gone when the others went but that
:52:22. > :52:24.was his decision. I respect the view that he wants to spend the next five
:52:25. > :52:27.years campaigning for his constituency in Norwich and I
:52:28. > :52:31.thought it was also helpful but he has ruled himself out of a
:52:32. > :52:41.leadership bid because there was rampant speculation about that. Tell
:52:42. > :52:43.us about the Jon Trickett story in the Sunday Times, that Labour have
:52:44. > :52:49.been putting potential leadership candidates in front of a focus group
:52:50. > :52:52.to test them out. I only saw this story last night. People tell me it
:52:53. > :52:58.was not the case. It was not road testing leadership candidates, there
:52:59. > :53:01.were a range of Shadow Cabinet members who were so-called road
:53:02. > :53:07.tested. This is what we do in our normal run of parliamentary
:53:08. > :53:13.considerations. I am glad they were not road testing me on the document
:53:14. > :53:16.that was leaked to the paper! Let's have a look at the polling for
:53:17. > :53:21.Jeremy Corbyn because we have to come to the elephant in the room.
:53:22. > :53:26.There is the favourability rating. Theresa May way up there and Jeremy
:53:27. > :53:32.Corbyn down here. On the group most likely to vote over 65, he is now
:53:33. > :53:36.apparently on -100 and 13. Catastrophic rates. Doesn't there
:53:37. > :53:42.come a point when it is your duty in the Labour Party to speak out?
:53:43. > :53:46.Jeremy knows what he has to do to win an election and he will make
:53:47. > :53:52.that decision. But let me say to hear, this is not the time for a
:53:53. > :53:57.leadership election. He got a second mandate from our members last year.
:53:58. > :54:01.He is now the established leader of the Labour Party. It is his duty to
:54:02. > :54:04.lead the official opposition through a period of unprecedented economic
:54:05. > :54:11.uncertainty and he will be tested in that. He has worked like a Trojan,
:54:12. > :54:14.he has worked very hard, he has done everything he can think of doing and
:54:15. > :54:19.it is still not working. How would you explain those figures? He have
:54:20. > :54:24.to explain the figures. He is well aware of them but it is not for me
:54:25. > :54:30.to judge him on a TV show like this, it is for him to make the decision.
:54:31. > :54:34.Do you talk to him every day on this? I talk to him about a whole
:54:35. > :54:42.range of issues and about everything we need to do to win the general
:54:43. > :54:49.election. Do you refer to the depth of the problem? We talk about the
:54:50. > :54:54.issues Labour needs to address. How important is it to the Labour Party
:54:55. > :54:57.to hold Stoke and Copeland? Winning by-elections is obviously a good
:54:58. > :55:02.thing for political parties. I do not know if we will win the
:55:03. > :55:07.by-elections or not but the campaign group on the ground running a
:55:08. > :55:12.campaign. They are quietly confident we will get a good result. Finally
:55:13. > :55:16.and briefly if you make, for the opposition, do you have confidence
:55:17. > :55:23.in John Bercow as the Speaker? And Mac absolutely. He is one of the
:55:24. > :55:31.great Speakers that we have seen. He gives backbenchers their voice and
:55:32. > :55:34.that is what we need. Jeremy Corbyn has said he will not
:55:35. > :55:38.stand down unless there is a decent chance of another left candidate as
:55:39. > :55:45.a leader and that means people want a change in the Labour rules so
:55:46. > :55:49.fewer MPs will nominate bit you want to return to the old system where
:55:50. > :55:53.all parts of the party are involved, explained. I think that is a good
:55:54. > :55:57.starting point but I think we need to get the system of electing the
:55:58. > :56:00.next lead out of the way before we start electing the next leader which
:56:01. > :56:04.is part of the problem we had last September and I don't want to go
:56:05. > :56:06.through that again. Thank you, Tom Watson.
:56:07. > :56:10.Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
:56:11. > :56:20.Join us from Leicester at 10am where we will talk about Israel will stop
:56:21. > :56:23.and is monogamy bad for marriage? See you at ten o'clock.
:56:24. > :56:28.Next week I'll be talking to the actor, Tom Hollander -
:56:29. > :56:32.star of Rev and the Night Manager - about his return to the stage
:56:33. > :56:36.For now, we leave you with Chrissie Hynde and James Wallbourne.
:56:37. > :56:40.From the new Pretenders album, this is Let's Get Lost.
:56:41. > :57:28.# Let's get lost Let's get lost
:57:29. > :58:19.# Let's get lost Let's get lost
:58:20. > :59:04.# Ooh It's irreversible, non-negotiable
:59:05. > :59:07.Before I met you, I was a civilised woman.