:00:00. > :00:08.When it comes to Brexit, think again.
:00:09. > :00:20.And what came back was a kind of Wagnerian raspberry.
:00:21. > :00:41.To talk about Tony Blair and "rising up" against Brexit,
:00:42. > :00:44.I'm joined by one of his closest political friends, the former
:00:45. > :00:49.From a master of the political game of chess to the real thing.
:00:50. > :00:53.I've been speaking to former world champion, Garry Kasparov,
:00:54. > :00:56.about his opposition to Putin, and Donald Trump.
:00:57. > :00:59.Responding for the government, Justice Secretary Liz Truss.
:01:00. > :01:03.She'll be talking too about the images of drugs,
:01:04. > :01:13.violence and anarchy in prisons on our TV screens this week.
:01:14. > :01:16.And speaking of anarchy, I've been talking to Tom Hollander
:01:17. > :01:22.about his dazzling return to the stage in a Tom Stoppard classic.
:01:23. > :01:24.Describe the play briefly omitting all but essential detail.
:01:25. > :01:30.Plus we've got music from Chuck Prophet, the sound
:01:31. > :01:43.# Want to go out but I'll probably stay home #.
:01:44. > :01:46.That's my editor's desperate attempt to make me seem even slightly cool.
:01:47. > :01:52.Reviewing the papers this morning, the Labour MP, Caroline Flint,
:01:53. > :01:54.Tim Shipman of the Sunday Times, and Ukip's only MP,
:01:55. > :02:01.All that coming up soon, but first the news with Christian Fraser.
:02:02. > :02:05.Thousands of prison officers in London and south-east England
:02:06. > :02:07.are getting an immediate pay increase of between
:02:08. > :02:12.Ministers have made the decision to try to boost recruitment
:02:13. > :02:15.and retain staff in the face of increasing violence.
:02:16. > :02:17.Our home affairs correspondent, Tom Symonds, reports.
:02:18. > :02:21.They are on the front line of the troubled prison service.
:02:22. > :02:29.Their numbers have been falling in recent years.
:02:30. > :02:32.And now the government is putting in place a ?12 million pay offer
:02:33. > :02:34.to keep them in their jobs and attract new people.
:02:35. > :02:37.But only officers in 31 prisons in London and the south-east,
:02:38. > :02:40.including this one in Wandsworth, will benefit.
:02:41. > :02:42.They are the jails under the most pressure,
:02:43. > :02:48.The offer is for standard grade three prison officers, not more
:02:49. > :02:58.The pay package for new recruits will be boosted by ?5,000
:02:59. > :03:04.But the Prison Officers Association believes this offer won't
:03:05. > :03:10.We are going to welcome additional money for our members,
:03:11. > :03:12.of course we are, but we don't think this goes far enough
:03:13. > :03:16.We believe it needs to be a national issue.
:03:17. > :03:19.The government is also increasing training,
:03:20. > :03:22.vital if it is to deal with the growing modern threats
:03:23. > :03:26.to order behind bars - mental health issues along
:03:27. > :03:29.with what ministers describe as drugs, drones and mobile phones.
:03:30. > :03:35.Iraqi forces have begun a major offensive to retake
:03:36. > :03:38.the western half of Mosul from Islamic State militants.
:03:39. > :03:41.Hundreds of vehicles and men are taking part,
:03:42. > :03:45.supported by coalition air strikes against militant positions.
:03:46. > :03:49.Mosul is the last major IS stronghold in Iraq.
:03:50. > :03:51.Government forces secured the eastern part of the city
:03:52. > :03:54.last month after weeks of fierce fighting.
:03:55. > :03:57.President Trump has made a robust defence of his first four weeks
:03:58. > :04:00.in office and insisted that a new spirit of optimism
:04:01. > :04:05.Speaking to supporters at an airport hanger in Florida,
:04:06. > :04:08.he repeated his campaign pledges to create jobs, improve
:04:09. > :04:12.security and repeal President Obama's health reforms.
:04:13. > :04:15.Mr Trump again turned his fire on the media, accusing the press
:04:16. > :04:23.The President's wife, Melania, also made a rare appearance
:04:24. > :04:29.I will always stay true to myself and be truthful to you,
:04:30. > :04:36.no matter what the opposition is saying about me.
:04:37. > :04:39.The chief executive of Sainsbury's has joined the growing row over
:04:40. > :04:41.the re-evaluation of business rates - the commercial
:04:42. > :04:45.Mike Coupe says the changes coming into effect in April
:04:46. > :04:48.unfairly affect businesses with lots of property and staff.
:04:49. > :04:50.He warned that high street stores could close.
:04:51. > :04:58.The government says the majority of firms will pay the same or less.
:04:59. > :05:01.Finally, football and in the first time in over a century
:05:02. > :05:03.a non-league side has made it through to the quarterfinals
:05:04. > :05:07.The fifth tier side, Lincoln City - known as the Imps -
:05:08. > :05:09.beat the Premier League's Burnley 1-0 with a dramatic
:05:10. > :05:16.The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.
:05:17. > :05:30.And there are Lincoln City on the front page Anne Main story is about
:05:31. > :05:42.an Islamist plot to take over a teacher in Burnley -- and the main
:05:43. > :05:47.story. The Mail on Sunday, you may have thought the Edward Heath story
:05:48. > :05:52.had gone away, he was a paedophile according to the paper. This is from
:05:53. > :05:57.a police officer who is not quoted directly so we will talk about that.
:05:58. > :06:01.The Observer is leaving on chaos looming for EU citizens who hope to
:06:02. > :06:08.stay in Britain, a very live story in both Houses of Parliament at the
:06:09. > :06:11.moment. The Sunday Telegraph has a story about a Kremlin conspiracy to
:06:12. > :06:15.assassinate the leader of Montenegro. It been around before
:06:16. > :06:18.but as you read it is still pretty gory stuff. And finally all of the
:06:19. > :06:34.Pops being properly. -- poppy. This is about the calls on
:06:35. > :06:38.Healthline is about children whose parents are so drunk they can't read
:06:39. > :06:44.them bedtime stories. We will start with Edward Heath. Tim Shipman, you
:06:45. > :06:48.are an expert on all things parliamentary, is there anything in
:06:49. > :06:52.this? There would appear to be, we thought this had gone away, one of
:06:53. > :06:56.the people accusing Edward Heath on wrongdoing had since been exposed as
:06:57. > :07:00.a fantasist and as a result people thought the allegations had gone
:07:01. > :07:05.away. This story said the police officer in Wiltshire who has been
:07:06. > :07:08.investigating claims there are 30 witnesses who are providing evidence
:07:09. > :07:11.that rings true and they are saying the same kind of things in different
:07:12. > :07:17.parts of the country and he has a report coming in June. It is clear
:07:18. > :07:23.that it will show... To accuse the former prime ministers being a
:07:24. > :07:27.paedophile. He says he is 120% sure there is something in it so let's
:07:28. > :07:31.hope his investigative is better than his knowledge of percentages!
:07:32. > :07:36.And we have two Agaba elections this week. Depending on which pay bit you
:07:37. > :07:43.read, you get different fictions about what will happen -- two
:07:44. > :07:46.by-elections. The observer thinks you will see of Ukip in
:07:47. > :07:52.Stoke-on-Trent. This reflects some of what I heard on Friday when I was
:07:53. > :07:57.campaigning in Stoke is that the dodgy tales around the past of
:07:58. > :08:03.walnut or are causing concern among voters. -- Paul Nuttall. It is a
:08:04. > :08:10.hard-fought campaign undoubtedly but I think Labour's spirit are better
:08:11. > :08:18.than a few weeks ago because of Paul Nuttall damaging his own campaign.
:08:19. > :08:24.And both of you, the Labour Party and Ukip, you both kinds need to win
:08:25. > :08:30.this campaign. Nigel Farage has said it is fundamental to Ukip to win in
:08:31. > :08:34.Stoke-on-Trent. It is important, it could turn out to be like the Spen
:08:35. > :08:41.Valley by-election in 1919 when an established old party was finally
:08:42. > :08:45.seen off by NU incident -- buy a new insurgent. If we win this, like that
:08:46. > :08:51.by-election almost 100 years ago, it could mark eight turning point by
:08:52. > :08:55.which Labour is displaced. Clearly Paul Nuttall has had some trouble.
:08:56. > :08:58.What is your feeling about the accuracy on the streets Chris Rock
:08:59. > :09:02.the article in the sun gets it right, we are still an underdog and
:09:03. > :09:09.we're up against a party which has been running Stoke since 1950. Their
:09:10. > :09:14.majority is pretty thin now, you only need about 9000 votes to win
:09:15. > :09:22.the by-election and I think we could do it. Being very cautious! You have
:09:23. > :09:25.said you thought Tony Blair's intervention on Brexit with badly
:09:26. > :09:32.timed for the by-election. I don't think it will affect it, whether
:09:33. > :09:35.Tony made his speech this week or more generally about things next
:09:36. > :09:39.week. The issue is not about whether he should offer a comment, he is
:09:40. > :09:44.completely entitled to do so, it is whether his advice about running a
:09:45. > :09:47.two-year campaign to try to overturn the referendum is the right way
:09:48. > :09:50.forward and I don't believe it is. We have to accept the result and get
:09:51. > :09:57.the best deal we can. No matter what happens? To the economy? Tony knows
:09:58. > :10:01.that in the next two years where we will get to the headlines of what
:10:02. > :10:05.the exiting agreement will be it could be five, six, seven years
:10:06. > :10:09.beyond that, a transitional period when we really knows the details of
:10:10. > :10:12.what will happen. In the meantime, there is a lot to argue for and
:10:13. > :10:19.campaign for and one of the things is the government sought at this EU
:10:20. > :10:21.national issue. Certainly in the Sunday Telegraph, the cartoonist
:10:22. > :10:27.agrees, that this was not great timing. There is an amusing image of
:10:28. > :10:32.voters in despair at the fact that Mr Blair is back. You want if he
:10:33. > :10:37.wants to win these by-elections, for his wing of the body in my be better
:10:38. > :10:40.to lose both of them. This also plays straight into the Ukip message
:10:41. > :10:43.in Stoke, that if you are voting Labour in our voting for a party
:10:44. > :10:47.that wants to subvert the referendum and in a city that voted
:10:48. > :10:50.overwhelmingly to leave, he is helping. Things were set on both
:10:51. > :10:55.sides in the referendum campaign that were overblown but some of the
:10:56. > :11:01.worst things were said in three had ?50 million at August has not helped
:11:02. > :11:06.us. -- 300 ?50 million. We have to get the best deal, that is what most
:11:07. > :11:07.important. As an adult were sent reporters
:11:08. > :11:29.The people I speak to think Stoke is a toss-up, that Labour might be
:11:30. > :11:33.edging it at the moment but the Copeland by-election is looking good
:11:34. > :11:36.for the Conservative Party and Labour has haemorrhaged about a
:11:37. > :11:44.third of its vote since 2015. There is also a story which explains, you
:11:45. > :11:47.come across six Labour peers who are thinking of giving up the Labour
:11:48. > :11:51.whip in the House of Lords and becoming crossbenchers as part of
:11:52. > :11:56.their move towards the Lib Dems to maximise the anti-Brexit vote. And
:11:57. > :11:59.they appear to have been speaking to the Conservative Party as well.
:12:00. > :12:05.There is not a mood to do direct defections and caused trouble,
:12:06. > :12:08.everybody thought there would be a leadership challenge against Jeremy
:12:09. > :12:11.Corbyn but this is just evidence of people gently pulling back and
:12:12. > :12:15.saying, we no longer want to take the Labour whip. They are quite
:12:16. > :12:19.happy to have the Lib Dems putting the whipping card in their
:12:20. > :12:22.pigeonholed and unofficial alignment will develop and when you speak to
:12:23. > :12:28.become an Knutzon, I'm sure you'll be interested to know about this
:12:29. > :12:34.right alignment that's going on -- when you speak to Peter Mandelson.
:12:35. > :12:43.Is he one of the six? Not to my knowledge but maybe it is seven! And
:12:44. > :12:49.the next story, business rates. On the news just now we heard this was
:12:50. > :12:53.a real crisis for shops and pubs and restaurants. I think this story is
:12:54. > :12:56.the potential to clobber the government because although most
:12:57. > :13:00.businesses will not be any worse off, about a quarter will. If you
:13:01. > :13:06.are running a business and the rates go up by over 100%, you're going to
:13:07. > :13:11.squeak pretty loudly. Perhaps what we are seeing is that this
:13:12. > :13:15.government is grappling with the legacy of John Major's government
:13:16. > :13:18.who signed up to the Maastricht Treaty which led to Brexit but his
:13:19. > :13:22.decision to nationalise business rates, that is catching up with the
:13:23. > :13:30.government. You cannot carry on running a system, we need a whole
:13:31. > :13:33.new system. You would think that with the governed that is therefore
:13:34. > :13:38.that just about managing people and worried about Isis, this is not a
:13:39. > :13:40.fight they can afford. There is a suggestion that the government is
:13:41. > :13:51.going to try to moderate the business rate rises -- worried about
:13:52. > :13:54.it. There is a budget coming up and if something can be done to stop the
:13:55. > :13:58.worst effect of this, the Chancellor might have to listen but he doesn't
:13:59. > :14:04.have a lot of money to play with. Sometimes people sake MPs don't do
:14:05. > :14:11.enough campaigning but this is an affront of the Sunday express. As
:14:12. > :14:15.you said, the front-page story is about a little girl ringing up a
:14:16. > :14:21.helpline saying, my mummy is drunk, please read to me. This is the
:14:22. > :14:24.National Association of children of alcoholics, and they read her a
:14:25. > :14:30.bedtime story while her parents were drunk. Myself and other MPs across
:14:31. > :14:33.party have launched a manifesto for children of alcoholics because it
:14:34. > :14:37.has been overlooked for many years. There are adult services do not
:14:38. > :14:42.adults with addiction problems but nothing for the children. Part of
:14:43. > :14:45.the recent we are talking about this is because we are children of
:14:46. > :14:49.alcoholics as well. And presumably there was no way of knowing how many
:14:50. > :14:55.kids there are? We recognise but one in five children, about 2.5 million
:14:56. > :14:58.children, which are affected by this. I know it is the case for
:14:59. > :15:02.myself and others who have been in this situation, often it is the
:15:03. > :15:07.secrecy and shame that prevent it being heard. Children who live with
:15:08. > :15:11.alcoholics, something like twice as many are likely to struggle at
:15:12. > :15:15.school, three times as many are likely to consider suicide and four
:15:16. > :15:20.times are likely to become alcoholic themselves. Did this blight your own
:15:21. > :15:26.life? It did, the secrecy and shame, it took me many years to even be
:15:27. > :15:29.able to talk about it because obviously with parents like this,
:15:30. > :15:34.you can love them and hate them in the same day and it's very
:15:35. > :15:38.difficult. Certainly for me... To go to university were to try to find a
:15:39. > :15:41.new way of life and get away from it but I'm pleased this has been
:15:42. > :15:42.covered and I hope more of the media will pick it up and we will get
:15:43. > :15:50.something done. The story about the Russians
:15:51. > :15:55.plotting to assassinate the leader of Montenegro, which is a tiny
:15:56. > :15:59.country with a lot of Russian exiles and oligarchs who have money. A
:16:00. > :16:04.sunny, small Balkan country, what more do we know about this country?
:16:05. > :16:08.It's an extraordinary thing that on our doorstep this kind of thing is
:16:09. > :16:12.going on. If you juxtapose that story with this picture of the North
:16:13. > :16:15.Korean chap who has basically been assassinated in an airport, we talk
:16:16. > :16:19.a lot in this country about the tensions of Brexit. It seemed at
:16:20. > :16:23.times that we have never been so divided but actually we are living
:16:24. > :16:27.in a world where the Russians are trying to assassinate people in
:16:28. > :16:29.Europe. Elsewhere in the world people are going round killing
:16:30. > :16:37.people in airports and I think we have got a lot to be great --
:16:38. > :16:41.grateful for in this country. Douglas Carswell, you were
:16:42. > :16:46.mentioning business rates, you have another economic story there, the
:16:47. > :16:49.basic income. It's an idea that's becoming terribly fashionable and
:16:50. > :16:54.everyone says it is a new idea, but actually it was tried a couple of
:16:55. > :16:59.thousand years ago. And the idea is simply everybody gets paid the same
:17:00. > :17:04.amount of basic money. Every citizen gets paid an allowance whether you
:17:05. > :17:13.work or not. It is put forward as a new idea. It is very trendy at the
:17:14. > :17:20.moment, yes. But it was tried by the Romans 2000 and something years ago.
:17:21. > :17:28.The Roman corn dog, and it was a disaster. Behind the basic income
:17:29. > :17:34.would be the idea of the parasite of prosperity. We borrow so that people
:17:35. > :17:37.don't have to work today, not a sensible idea. Thank you very much
:17:38. > :17:38.indeed. Something very strange
:17:39. > :17:41.in the air this week. A kind of yeasty, unsettling,
:17:42. > :17:43.almost fragrant atmosphere. It's beginning to feel
:17:44. > :17:53.a bit like spring. Yes, certainly beginning to feel
:17:54. > :17:59.that way, isn't it? We have a mild westerly breeze today but
:18:00. > :18:05.differences across the UK showed by our weather watcher pictures. Here
:18:06. > :18:08.we have low, grey cloud but in East Yorkshire we have beautiful blue
:18:09. > :18:11.skies and the best of the sunshine will be always across sheltered
:18:12. > :18:20.eastern parts of England, and possibly into the Welsh Marches
:18:21. > :18:23.further west. There will be helpful, misty weather and drizzle around as
:18:24. > :18:28.well, but a mild day wherever you are. Temperatures in double figures
:18:29. > :18:31.if you get the sunshine 13 degrees is quite likely. We have rain
:18:32. > :18:37.arriving in Scotland and Northern Ireland at the end of the day and
:18:38. > :18:43.into evening. We are left with an awful lot of cloud, hill fog despite
:18:44. > :18:48.a freshening breeze but really mild night, temperatures not dropping
:18:49. > :18:53.much at all. But windy tomorrow, gusty winds, bumpy winds, eastern
:18:54. > :18:59.Scotland, rain moving. Southwards Behind it we will get some sunshine
:19:00. > :19:06.in Scotland. Cooler weather with the sunshine in the north. In the mild
:19:07. > :19:12.air, if we get sunshine temperatures could be up to 16, even 17 Celsius.
:19:13. > :19:16.Enjoy it if you can. Last night I was sitting outside enjoying a glass
:19:17. > :19:25.of wine in the open air. Garry Kasparov was the world's
:19:26. > :19:27.number one chess player for more than 20 years,
:19:28. > :19:30.a grand master considered by many to be the greatest player
:19:31. > :19:33.of all time, but he then went on to become a leading activist
:19:34. > :19:35.against President Vladimir Putin. Now living in the United States,
:19:36. > :19:38.I spoke to him earlier about the relationship
:19:39. > :19:40.between Russia and the US I began by asking him
:19:41. > :19:44.about the events of the past week and whether the resignation
:19:45. > :19:46.of Donald Trump's National Security Adviser, General Michael Flynn,
:19:47. > :19:49.was a tale of White House intrigue, or something more
:19:50. > :19:50.globally significant. It's more like a geopolitical
:19:51. > :19:52.scandal because the United States is the leader of the free world
:19:53. > :19:56.and the man in charge of national security, as Mr Flynn was,
:19:57. > :19:58.is definitely in the centre of US foreign policy and relations
:19:59. > :20:04.with Russia are also very important because everyone understands
:20:05. > :20:05.that the Russian dictator, Vladimir Putin, is now
:20:06. > :20:08.representing a threat not only to the United States
:20:09. > :20:11.but to the free world as a whole. President Trump has angrily
:20:12. > :20:15.and vehemently denied that he is compromised
:20:16. > :20:18.by the Russians or that he has Do you nevertheless believe that
:20:19. > :20:23.Russian intelligence has penetrated more deeply and widely
:20:24. > :20:25.into the American administration We don't know for sure but,
:20:26. > :20:35.you know, it's not about Mr Trump having an investment in Russia,
:20:36. > :20:37.it's whether Putin and the Russian oligarchs have investment
:20:38. > :20:39.in Mr Trump's business empire But his denial to release his taxes
:20:40. > :20:46.raises more questions. It's very odd, this relationship
:20:47. > :20:50.between Mr Trump and Mr Putin. Mr Trump has not said anything
:20:51. > :20:53.other than nice things about President Putin for a long
:20:54. > :20:57.time and vice versa. At some kind of human level
:20:58. > :21:01.they clearly rather like each other. It's not also surprising
:21:02. > :21:04.because Putin is a dictator and definitely he prefers to deal
:21:05. > :21:07.with another strong man and Mr Trump is also known for his affinity
:21:08. > :21:15.to strong man and strong measures. We should remember that in 1989
:21:16. > :21:20.he applauded the decisive action of the Chinese Communist party
:21:21. > :21:24.in Tiananmen Square. And I think Mr Trump also sees Putin
:21:25. > :21:30.as a potential counterpart to make decisions in one on one
:21:31. > :21:31.negotiations, some kind Some people would say,
:21:32. > :21:35.actually what is wrong with Trump Had it been Hillary Clinton
:21:36. > :21:40.in the White House, we know there would have been immediate
:21:41. > :21:43.confrontation and actually, given the way the world
:21:44. > :21:45.is shaped at the moment, isn't the world safer
:21:46. > :21:48.with an American president and a Russian president who,
:21:49. > :21:50.whatever you think of their personal qualities,
:21:51. > :21:54.do seem to have a good relationship? No, good, solid relations should be
:21:55. > :21:58.built on common ground, on certain values that are shared
:21:59. > :22:02.and the understanding that both sides are willing to follow
:22:03. > :22:06.the conditions of the agreement The potential grand bargain
:22:07. > :22:12.between Trump and Putin is not just a deal between America and Russia,
:22:13. > :22:15.this deal, we understand, will be made, if it's made,
:22:16. > :22:19.at the expense of American traditional allies and democracies
:22:20. > :22:22.and Nato members and that will be the end of the global infrastructure
:22:23. > :22:27.that guaranteed security You have a book coming out
:22:28. > :22:35.about all of this titled Winter Is Coming,
:22:36. > :22:38.about Putin's Russia. Do you think that,
:22:39. > :22:40.after the incursions into parts of Ukraine and the Crimea,
:22:41. > :22:43.that he's going to go further? Do you think the rest
:22:44. > :22:45.of Ukraine is genuinely I doubt that he is willing
:22:46. > :22:51.to take risk of open That's why I would rule out now
:22:52. > :22:56.immediate military actions against Baltic nations
:22:57. > :23:01.which are members of Nato. Further attacks on Ukraine
:23:02. > :23:04.could cost him dearly because the Ukraine army is strong
:23:05. > :23:07.enough and the resistance proved But he doesn't have
:23:08. > :23:13.to use military force. So far he was quite successful
:23:14. > :23:16.in using KGB methods, clandestine operations,
:23:17. > :23:19.influencing the free world from within using our technologies,
:23:20. > :23:22.technologies that were invented in the free world and the freedom
:23:23. > :23:25.of speech and the political system which helps him to bring his allies,
:23:26. > :23:29.like Le Front Nationale in France or other ultra-nationalist
:23:30. > :23:32.or radical left parties in Europe to help him to lift sanctions
:23:33. > :23:38.and to spread his soft power, his influence that will help him
:23:39. > :23:43.to dominate the continent. The last time we spoke I think
:23:44. > :23:46.you were still based in Russia and you left Russia and then one
:23:47. > :23:49.of your closest friends At the time you said you thought
:23:50. > :23:54.Putin would not last eventually, There is still almost two years to
:23:55. > :24:08.go and obviously it's a short time, from a historical perspective,
:24:09. > :24:10.but for dictatorships, We know that dictatorships
:24:11. > :24:15.like Putin's, they are very vulnerable to a dramatic shift
:24:16. > :24:20.in the geopolitical realities. People who oppose him either killed
:24:21. > :24:28.or in jail or in exile. But at the same time,
:24:29. > :24:33.he is betting on his image of a strongman and also
:24:34. > :24:35.the continuous financial cooperation And if he is met by the decisive
:24:36. > :24:42.actions from the United States and the European Union,
:24:43. > :24:44.who knows what happens? But of course I wouldn't
:24:45. > :24:47.bet my bottom dollar that it But if the bets are attractive,
:24:48. > :24:54.I'm willing to take my chance. You are now one of the prime
:24:55. > :24:57.opposition voices against President Putin around the world
:24:58. > :25:00.which is why we are talking to you. Can I ask you, do you
:25:01. > :25:05.feel safe in Brooklyn? But yes, look, it's definitely
:25:06. > :25:14.much safer than Moscow. I didn't think I would have
:25:15. > :25:19.to leave my country. After all, I'm probably one
:25:20. > :25:22.of the most decorated Soviet Russian That is the last four years, I live
:25:23. > :25:28.here with my family and again, I believe in American democracy
:25:29. > :25:33.and I believe that my safety here, if it's not guaranteed 100%
:25:34. > :25:37.but definitely I could rely on American political system
:25:38. > :25:45.to guarantee that I will not be targeted as easily as I could be
:25:46. > :25:50.in many other places in the world. Garry Kasparov, I think I'm
:25:51. > :25:53.allowed to say good luck. Thank you very much
:25:54. > :25:55.for talking to us. Tony Blair delivered his most
:25:56. > :26:08.outspoken political intervention since leaving office this week,
:26:09. > :26:10.with his call to pro-Europeans Who better to discuss this
:26:11. > :26:17.than his old ally, Peter Mandelson, now observing the scene
:26:18. > :26:31.from the House of Lords? Brexit is going to happen, isn't it?
:26:32. > :26:35.The question, Andrew, is on what terms and what we've learned since
:26:36. > :26:38.the referendum and obviously the Government has to respect and
:26:39. > :26:42.parliament has to respect the decision, the majority decision
:26:43. > :26:49.expressed in the referendum even though it represented only 37% of
:26:50. > :26:53.the public. Who voted to leave. What's changed is the Government's
:26:54. > :26:57.decision about the terms on which we are going to leave the European
:26:58. > :27:02.Union, and in her speech at Lancaster house, Mrs May made clear
:27:03. > :27:07.that we were just going to leave the European Union but we were going to
:27:08. > :27:11.leave every single bit of the single market, the customs union, and that
:27:12. > :27:15.in my view is going to have a profound impact on our trade in
:27:16. > :27:21.Europe which is our biggest export market. There are many people who
:27:22. > :27:26.voted to remain in the referendum, but I think many people who voted to
:27:27. > :27:29.leave and are now wondering about the terms on which this will happen
:27:30. > :27:35.want to have their voices heard again. At the moment the 48% has
:27:36. > :27:39.gone down to 42% supporting remain, actually remain is moving backwards
:27:40. > :27:46.and not forwards... I'm sorry, other opinion polls say that many leave
:27:47. > :27:51.supporters who voted that way in the referendum don't want a hard Brexit.
:27:52. > :27:58.They are having collywobbles and that needs to be reflected by
:27:59. > :28:02.Parliament. The real question is Tony Blair says we need to rise up,
:28:03. > :28:11.Brexit doesn't need to happen, and my question is how will that not
:28:12. > :28:14.happen. In the polls, certainly some of the polls in the country you are
:28:15. > :28:20.moving the other way so I don't see how this rising up is going to
:28:21. > :28:24.happen. The reason why' the campaigning organisation with which
:28:25. > :28:27.I'm associated along with others, asked Mr Blair to make this speech,
:28:28. > :28:33.and the reason why we asked him to make it last week before the Brexit
:28:34. > :28:37.legislation goes to the House of Lords for debate tomorrow on
:28:38. > :28:44.Tuesday, is because we firmly believe that many people voted in
:28:45. > :28:49.the referendum and have no idea on the terms on which the Government
:28:50. > :28:57.would decide to leave the European Union. Now that is the big change in
:28:58. > :29:00.circumstances. I get that. Many people across the country, people
:29:01. > :29:06.who don't have an extreme view one way or another, they are not extreme
:29:07. > :29:11.pro-Brexit, not extreme anti-Brexit, they are not extreme left or right,
:29:12. > :29:15.but they feel they are being bulldozed. They feel their voices
:29:16. > :29:22.are not being heard or expressed in Parliament and we are saying sign up
:29:23. > :29:27.to ( And, and many have, you've us some money and help us campaign
:29:28. > :29:31.against this exit at all costs which the Government are determined to see
:29:32. > :29:34.through. I'm still not clear what people can do, they can sign up but
:29:35. > :29:38.this is a political question that depends on vote in the country and
:29:39. > :29:43.the House of Commons. Tony Blair has talked about breaking the bounds of
:29:44. > :29:48.the party, having some cross-party movement, that somehow politics has
:29:49. > :29:53.been so radically shifted... But what alternative to people have? If
:29:54. > :29:57.you look at what happened in the House of Commons, the Supreme Court
:29:58. > :30:01.said Parliament must decide. The Government used their majority to
:30:02. > :30:07.bulldoze the legislation. With a lot of help from the Labour Party. No, I
:30:08. > :30:10.will come back that in the moment. To bulldoze the legislation through
:30:11. > :30:16.Parliament. I hope they will not be so successful in the House of Lords.
:30:17. > :30:20.And when it came to a proposal by the Labour Party to enable
:30:21. > :30:24.Parliament to come back and have a meaningful vote with a proper check
:30:25. > :30:28.and a proper balance on the outcome of the negotiation, not the result
:30:29. > :30:34.of the referendum but the outcome of the referendum, the Government gave
:30:35. > :30:36.verbal guarantee at first that that would happen but wouldn't accept an
:30:37. > :30:40.amendment to the bill, but afterwards said, but this will only
:30:41. > :30:46.be take it or leave it, you can choose between a bad deal and no
:30:47. > :30:51.deal at all. What we are saying is that what Parliament must agree is
:30:52. > :30:55.to say look at the final deal, look at the outcome of the negotiation,
:30:56. > :30:59.and if it's not good for Britain, if it is potentially going to be a
:31:00. > :31:03.disaster for our economy, send the Government back to the negotiating
:31:04. > :31:06.table. You mentioned the House of Lords, there are two sets of
:31:07. > :31:10.amendments coming out next week, one is the vote you were just
:31:11. > :31:14.discussing, the vote at the end of the process, and one is to give more
:31:15. > :31:18.guaranteed rights to use its sins in the UK. Is it your view the
:31:19. > :31:22.Government can be defeated on both of those?
:31:23. > :31:29.I think it is, there is a strong body of opinion cross and among
:31:30. > :31:34.independent peers that both these issues are very serious but when it
:31:35. > :31:38.comes to EU citizens, the British government is not negotiating with
:31:39. > :31:41.itself and there will be people amongst the member states who say,
:31:42. > :31:46.no, we don't want to take this issue now, we will take it later on during
:31:47. > :31:52.the negotiations because it is as much a negotiating gambit for them
:31:53. > :31:56.as it is for Britain. This is the overriding question in British
:31:57. > :32:04.politics for you? It is because so much hinges on it. That being so,
:32:05. > :32:09.given that the only part which is clearly anti-Brexit if the Lib Dems,
:32:10. > :32:14.should they vote for them in the future -- are the only party. People
:32:15. > :32:17.should be putting pressure on parliamentarians from all parties
:32:18. > :32:26.trying to instil a bit of courage in the Tory MPs as well, most of whom
:32:27. > :32:29.seem to have capitulated to the ideologues in their party but yes,
:32:30. > :32:34.pressure on the Labour Party and the Lib Dems and the greens to say, you
:32:35. > :32:38.have got to speak up for us when the time comes. Let me ask you about
:32:39. > :32:43.what might happen after those House of Lords votes. Suppose they do vote
:32:44. > :32:46.to amend the article with the legislation and it goes back to the
:32:47. > :32:50.House of Commons and presumably the government uses the majority to take
:32:51. > :32:54.it back to the House of Lords. Do we get a long period of ping-pong or
:32:55. > :32:59.does the House of Lords say, the referendum was clear and the Commons
:33:00. > :33:02.are clear, it is time to give up? At the end of the day, the House of
:33:03. > :33:08.Commons must prevail because it is the elected chamber. And how long is
:33:09. > :33:12.the day? I hope the House of Lords will not throw in the towel early.
:33:13. > :33:19.This intervention by Tony Blair has been criticised by a lot of Labour
:33:20. > :33:28.MPs. Three Labour MPs I countered. -- counted. They were saying that he
:33:29. > :33:31.is not the right guy. He and you were involved in that decision to
:33:32. > :33:37.allow the gates open to immigration from the EU early. You sent out the
:33:38. > :33:41.search parties. And on the key question of immigration, it is the
:33:42. > :33:44.wrong people leading this charge, and secondly, before these
:33:45. > :33:48.by-elections, it is the wrong time was up first of all I was famously
:33:49. > :33:51.not in the government at the time so I did not send out a search parties!
:33:52. > :34:00.What British businesses did come given we were operating a pretty
:34:01. > :34:05.full employment economy in 2004, was to say that we need people to work
:34:06. > :34:11.in our companies, to fill these job vacancies from outside the country.
:34:12. > :34:14.This is the point, Andrew. What we will see in this negotiation is
:34:15. > :34:19.three things. We are going to see less trade, you're going to see
:34:20. > :34:24.Britain paying through the nose for the access we want to negotiate and
:34:25. > :34:27.you're also going to seek, broadly speaking I suspect, the same numbers
:34:28. > :34:33.of migrants coming into the country at now. Partly because over the half
:34:34. > :34:38.of the migrants don't come from the EU, they come from the rest of the
:34:39. > :34:41.world, and in the case of those who come from Europe, we need them to
:34:42. > :34:48.fill jobs in our economies. Let's look at the outcome of this, there
:34:49. > :34:52.will be, hold on, we will have less trade can be paying through the nose
:34:53. > :34:56.for it and broadly speaking the same number of immigrants coming to the
:34:57. > :34:59.country. Is that a reasonable deal? Don't you think the public will have
:35:00. > :35:05.something to say about that outcome when the negotiation ends? I think
:35:06. > :35:08.they will. That is the last thing that Brexit voters on Stoke-on-Trent
:35:09. > :35:12.want to hit at the moment and some of the critics and the party think
:35:13. > :35:16.that what you're trying to do... And they have got to vote against the
:35:17. > :35:20.government, against the Conservative Party in order to demonstrate that
:35:21. > :35:25.it is not the sort of outcome they want. And in favour of Jeremy
:35:26. > :35:30.Corbyn's Labour Party who helped trigger article 50? Who proposed an
:35:31. > :35:35.amendment to the House of Commons, but there are fewer Labour MPs than
:35:36. > :35:37.conservative ones, saying that Parliament should have a meaningful
:35:38. > :35:42.vote on this and that is what I hope the Lord of -- at the House of Lords
:35:43. > :35:49.will reinstate. It has it that raising this issue helps the SNP in
:35:50. > :35:53.Scotland and, perhaps by accident, Tony Blair has given Nicola Sturgeon
:35:54. > :35:58.a great boost and she said she agreed with his speech. I think that
:35:59. > :36:03.Brexit strengthens the argument of the Nationalists but that is exactly
:36:04. > :36:06.what we warned in the referendum. If you dig the overall balance of the
:36:07. > :36:10.argument, I don't think it gives it to the nationalists for this
:36:11. > :36:15.reasonable sub over six times more the amount of trade by Scotland is
:36:16. > :36:22.with the rest of the UK, not the EU. If they were to separate from the
:36:23. > :36:27.UK, the big question would be placed over their trade. How would they do
:36:28. > :36:30.it? If they re-entered the EU, the rest of the UK was out of it, that
:36:31. > :36:33.would have an impact on Scottish trade with the rest of the UK and
:36:34. > :36:39.they have to take that into consideration. Tim Shipman said
:36:40. > :36:44.earlier that six of your colleagues in the House of Lords want to give
:36:45. > :36:49.up the Labour whip. Who are they? He didn't give me names. Sounds a bit
:36:50. > :36:54.like a Sunday newspaper speculation. What is your advice to such people?
:36:55. > :37:00.To stay in the Labour Party, of course. Despite your worries about
:37:01. > :37:04.how Jeremy Corbyn has led it? I believe the Labour Party can recover
:37:05. > :37:09.its ground in British politics, I believe that very firmly and I work
:37:10. > :37:13.for that every day. For the Labour Party to be successful, it has to
:37:14. > :37:17.represent the broad swathe of centre-left opinion in this country.
:37:18. > :37:22.It has also got to demonstrate strength, clarity, sureness of
:37:23. > :37:28.touch, it has to know what it stands for. Strength against weakness in
:37:29. > :37:33.British politics is as great a driving factor is left against
:37:34. > :37:37.right. A lot of people would say, these are all interesting argument
:37:38. > :37:40.that they were thrashed through during the referendum campaign and
:37:41. > :37:45.your side lost and that should be it. That is precisely the point.
:37:46. > :37:51.What we were told in the referendum campaign was that, by Boris Johnson,
:37:52. > :37:55.I remember, that if we left the EU, we could have the same trade in the
:37:56. > :38:00.single market as we have now. Hold on...
:38:01. > :38:05.Boris Johnson said clearly he thought we would leave the single
:38:06. > :38:10.market. He said we would have the same trade as we have now outside
:38:11. > :38:15.the single market. David Davis said in the House of Commons the other
:38:16. > :38:18.day that out of the European Union and the single market and the
:38:19. > :38:24.customs union we would have the exact same benefits in trade as we
:38:25. > :38:28.do now. That is a fraud, a fraud. I have been a Trade Minister in this
:38:29. > :38:33.country and trade commissioner in Europe, I have seen both ends of the
:38:34. > :38:37.telescope and there is no trade agreement in the world that will
:38:38. > :38:41.give us the same benefits in trade that we have now if we were to
:38:42. > :38:45.follow the government's Brexit at all costs negotiations. Lord
:38:46. > :38:47.Mandelson, thank you for talking to us.
:38:48. > :38:50.The past 12 months have been golden ones for Tom Hollander.
:38:51. > :38:52.As the vicious "Corky" in The Night Manager,
:38:53. > :38:56.Now, he's back in London's West End in one of the most dazzling plays
:38:57. > :39:00."Travesties", by Tom Stoppard, is set in Zurich in 1917
:39:01. > :39:02.and features, among others, Lenin and James Joyce
:39:03. > :39:07.in a jaw-droppingly intellectual and very funny production.
:39:08. > :39:10.Hollander plays a real-life British diplomat, Henry Carr,
:39:11. > :39:14.lured by his own vanity onto the stage.
:39:15. > :39:39.Describe the play briefly omitting all but essential detail...
:39:40. > :39:42.Of the reasons for doing the play is that the level of writing
:39:43. > :39:46.is so brilliant that Stoppard embarks on sentences that
:39:47. > :39:52.are so literary and complicated and so long that they,
:39:53. > :39:56.I think, are inspirational and playwriting these days doesn't
:39:57. > :40:01.often aspire to that level of sheer kind of literary ambition.
:40:02. > :40:05.And for that reason it's very brilliant to do it now in a world
:40:06. > :40:12.which appears to be increasingly crude in some ways.
:40:13. > :40:17.Patrick Marber's production of this play is madcap and fun,
:40:18. > :40:23.and actually not that reverential, which is I think why people are able
:40:24. > :40:26.to enjoy it to the extent that they are in a very broad way.
:40:27. > :40:28.It's not simply intellectual thrills, it is ridiculous
:40:29. > :40:33.I shall have to make certain expenditures.
:40:34. > :40:38.After lunch, some byplay amongst the small parts.
:40:39. > :40:41.You enter in a debonair garden party outfit, beribboned boater,
:40:42. > :40:43.gaily striped blazer, party coloured shoes,
:40:44. > :40:52.It's a very, very clever play and it's a very, very funny play.
:40:53. > :40:56.I was weeping with laughter through this, and it's low
:40:57. > :40:58.humour and high humour, terrible limericks and dances
:40:59. > :41:02.and music hall songs and extraordinarily fast wordplay.
:41:03. > :41:08.Well, I also love it because it's so clever and preposterously
:41:09. > :41:11.intellectual on one level, to the point where you think, well
:41:12. > :41:17.This is alienating to a mainstream audience, how can you put it on?
:41:18. > :41:20.It's almost a sort of over the top excrescence of kind
:41:21. > :41:25.Everything that is being swept away by the revolution
:41:26. > :41:29.that we are experiencing now in the world, in the Western world.
:41:30. > :41:33.But I wonder, this does require and depend upon
:41:34. > :41:41.You know, who get the jokes about James Joyce, who know just
:41:42. > :41:43.little about dadar perhaps and certainly get the jokes
:41:44. > :41:46.about Lenin and his philistinism and so forth.
:41:47. > :41:50.What is amazing is quite how many people there appear to be who do get
:41:51. > :41:55.I don't actually think anybody is clever enough to understand
:41:56. > :42:07.Tom obviously has got to think it up over a period of months.
:42:08. > :42:11.He didn't come out with it in one great long speech as my character
:42:12. > :42:13.comes out with stuff that is just preposterously fluent.
:42:14. > :42:16.As with all plays, they are just constructs.
:42:17. > :42:21.So it's a sort of vaudevillian display of intellectual brilliance.
:42:22. > :42:26.It's also, with luck, filled with some real emotion as well.
:42:27. > :42:32.It should be kind of torturing and soulful.
:42:33. > :42:40.In literal terms, the way that I think of it is that it's a story
:42:41. > :42:43.about an old man remembering the best years of his life and he's
:42:44. > :42:46.getting to the stage in his life where he can't remember right
:42:47. > :42:49.so the action keeps starting again and it starts slightly
:42:50. > :42:54.So it's the beginnings of some sort of dementia thing going on,
:42:55. > :42:59.I find that, in performing it, that's where it has
:43:00. > :43:05.And one feels warm and sympathetic towards your character,
:43:06. > :43:08.Henry Carr, and he's a genial figure and a likeable figure.
:43:09. > :43:11.The same could not be said of Corky in The Night Manager.
:43:12. > :43:15.Yeah, I mean Corky was a wonderful part.
:43:16. > :43:18.What you're seeing is the end of a 10-year romance
:43:19. > :43:23.between Roper and Corky, when Tom Hiddleston comes in,
:43:24. > :43:26.the character Pine, and threatens their world
:43:27. > :43:40.Maids, serving wenches, cooks, typists, masseuses,
:43:41. > :43:44.even the lady that comes to clip the canaries' claws.
:43:45. > :43:49.But if you lay one hand on that precious fruit,
:43:50. > :43:51.then like the Belgians and the Congo,
:43:52. > :44:04.The brilliant thing about Corky as a part
:44:05. > :44:08.the perspective of the audience because he knows that
:44:09. > :44:14.The audience know Pine is a fraud, no other character does, and Roper
:44:15. > :44:17.is taken in so he's a villain who is relatable, which is
:44:18. > :44:24.Was it sort of liberating and enjoyable for you?
:44:25. > :44:28.You've played so many engaging, likeable, basically good people
:44:29. > :44:30.from Rev onwards and this character and so forth,
:44:31. > :44:39.Yes, it was, it was part of a de-Revving process that I was on.
:44:40. > :44:44.A de-Revved Tom Hollander, thank you very much for talking to us.
:44:45. > :44:47.And Travesties by Tom Stoppard is at the Apollo Theatre
:44:48. > :44:51.Even before Tony Blair had finished his speech,
:44:52. > :44:53.government ministers were lining up to rubbish him.
:44:54. > :44:54."Rise up and turn your televisions off", said
:44:55. > :45:00.But why shouldn't the 48% have a say?
:45:01. > :45:02.Elizabeth Truss, the Justice Secretary, is here to talk
:45:03. > :45:05.about that and the hideous scenes from inside prisons that have been
:45:06. > :45:18.You may have heard Peter Mandelson saying the legislation will be sent
:45:19. > :45:22.back to the House of Commons and he hoped the process went on as long as
:45:23. > :45:26.possible, what the Government use the Parliament act to stop that
:45:27. > :45:30.process? Listening to Peter Mandelson it was like the referendum
:45:31. > :45:35.never happened. He seemed to be making the same argument that was
:45:36. > :45:39.made last year and which the British people rejected. So he needs to move
:45:40. > :45:45.on, and the Labour Party need to move on because we are now in a new
:45:46. > :45:50.reality so he is a blast from the past frankly in terms of what he's
:45:51. > :45:54.saying. But if the House of Lords doesn't move on and amend the
:45:55. > :45:58.legislation, do you use the Parliament act? He was very clear
:45:59. > :46:03.that the House of Commons is the elected house. We passed it with an
:46:04. > :46:07.overwhelming majority. It wasn't true, that he claimed it was pulled
:46:08. > :46:12.through on Conservative votes alone. Many in the Labour Party voted for
:46:13. > :46:15.Article 50 to be triggered so the fact is it was voted for
:46:16. > :46:18.conclusively in the House of Commons. The Leader of the Lords
:46:19. > :46:24.said on your show last week that they wouldn't be holding it up, that
:46:25. > :46:30.they were scrutinising. The fact is it is a simple bill on do we trigger
:46:31. > :46:33.Article 50. The British people voted for that, they were clearing the
:46:34. > :46:37.referendum and the House of Lords now needs to get on with it which is
:46:38. > :46:42.what I understand they will be doing despite what Peter Mandelson claims.
:46:43. > :46:47.Will you use the Parliament act if you have to? As I said, I fully
:46:48. > :46:50.expect the House of Lords will recognise the will of the people and
:46:51. > :46:58.the will of the House of Commons which was overwhelming, and pass
:46:59. > :47:01.that legislation. Crucial to this is whether article 51 cities triggered
:47:02. > :47:05.can be revoked again. There was a court case going through the Irish
:47:06. > :47:10.courts and possibly the European Court about this. What is your legal
:47:11. > :47:17.advice over whether Article 50 is a one-way ticket? Can it be revoked?
:47:18. > :47:21.The High Court and Supreme Court were very clear. This is not a legal
:47:22. > :47:26.question, it is a political question. The British people have
:47:27. > :47:29.voted to leave the European Union, all of those arguments were aired in
:47:30. > :47:34.the referendum last year. We were all on the TV shows making these
:47:35. > :47:39.points, and people like Peter Mandelson... I'm sorry, this is a
:47:40. > :47:44.legal question as to whether legally Article 50 can be revoked or not and
:47:45. > :47:48.I'm asking you what your advice is. As Lord Chancellor I do not make
:47:49. > :47:54.legal decisions, they are made in the courts. The judges made the
:47:55. > :47:58.decision, that's why we have an independent judiciary, but the point
:47:59. > :48:01.I'm making is that Peter Mandelson and others in the Labour Party who
:48:02. > :48:06.are trying to frustrate the will of the British people need to think how
:48:07. > :48:09.they can contribute how to make Britain a success post Brexit.
:48:10. > :48:13.Mandelson has lots of trade experience, why doesn't he think how
:48:14. > :48:19.he can help get those good trade deals rather than trying to fight a
:48:20. > :48:22.battle which he conclusively lost last year? So you have no idea
:48:23. > :48:30.whether Article 50 can be revoked or not? I'm saying people can take
:48:31. > :48:35.cases to court, my understanding is it is irrevocable and when we
:48:36. > :48:39.pressed the button it will go forward, but regardless of that
:48:40. > :48:44.situation, this is the settled will of the British people and I think
:48:45. > :48:47.people who are trying to fight yesterday's battle need to join us
:48:48. > :48:52.in making the success of global Britain. The prime ministers set out
:48:53. > :48:57.a clear vision and that's what we need to get on with. During the
:48:58. > :49:06.referendum campaign, you were on the same side as Peter Mandelson, you
:49:07. > :49:11.were a Remain voter. If there was a second referendum would you change
:49:12. > :49:16.your mind? I would vote for out because it is the settled will of
:49:17. > :49:19.the British people, we are now on an irrevocable pass to leaving the
:49:20. > :49:24.European Union. We have a clear vision of what we want to achieve
:49:25. > :49:27.and times have changed. So the arguments you used before were
:49:28. > :49:33.wrong, you have changed your mind. If that is so why can't the British
:49:34. > :49:37.people change their minds too? The British people haven't changed their
:49:38. > :49:42.minds, you need to meet people and hear what they are saying. The
:49:43. > :49:49.people I talk to say "Get on with it". They want to get Britain to a
:49:50. > :49:52.status of being an independent country, being free of the auspices
:49:53. > :49:56.of the European Court, getting on with trade deals, doing what we need
:49:57. > :50:01.to do to reform our country whether it is our education system, our
:50:02. > :50:05.health service, the prison system, that's what we need to be getting on
:50:06. > :50:09.with, not fighting yesterday's battle which is what some people
:50:10. > :50:13.seem to be determined to do. When the Supreme Court was attacked by
:50:14. > :50:17.the press for its judgment, a lot of people thought you were very slow to
:50:18. > :50:23.respond. Lord Newberg said this week that after the hearing I think they,
:50:24. > :50:28.politicians, by which he meant you, could have been quicker and clearer
:50:29. > :50:33.but we all learned by experience whether politicians or judges. Have
:50:34. > :50:37.you learned from that experience? I think it is fantastic and he went
:50:38. > :50:42.out in public this week talking about the Supreme Court, talking
:50:43. > :50:53.about the new positions available on the Supreme Court. I want to see our
:50:54. > :50:59.senior judges, like David Neuberger, I want to see them talking about the
:51:00. > :51:03.judiciary, the role of the rule of law, the role in our constitution,
:51:04. > :51:08.that's important but I will never say to the media what they should be
:51:09. > :51:12.printing on their headlines. I think it would be totally wrong for a
:51:13. > :51:16.government minister to go around saying this is acceptable, this
:51:17. > :51:23.isn't acceptable. In the modern world, whether we are politicians,
:51:24. > :51:28.journalists, whether we work in a church, we are all subject to
:51:29. > :51:33.scrutiny and that is right. So do you disagree with more judge who
:51:34. > :51:35.said your words were too little too late. His edits a constitutional
:51:36. > :51:41.obligation on the Lord Chancellor to speak and on this issue there has
:51:42. > :51:44.been silenced. She is, in relative terms, a very inexperienced
:51:45. > :51:49.politician with no legal experience who has been silent and answers to
:51:50. > :51:52.Downing Street when she should have been independent. I will not
:51:53. > :51:56.criticise and say to the free press is what they should write in their
:51:57. > :51:59.headlines. Of course it is incredibly important that we have an
:52:00. > :52:04.independent judiciary and the rule of law in operation in this country.
:52:05. > :52:11.It's been in operation for hundreds of years but we are entering a new
:52:12. > :52:17.era. You said you wouldn't criticise it. What I said was I will and will
:52:18. > :52:20.not say to the press what they can write in their headlines because
:52:21. > :52:24.freedom of the press is another important part of our democracy just
:52:25. > :52:31.like independence of the judiciary. I want to see our senior Judiciary
:52:32. > :52:35.Committee whether it is David Neuberger or Lord Chief Justice
:52:36. > :52:39.talking about what they do. I think the court case was helpful in
:52:40. > :52:44.explaining to the public what judges do, we need more of that. Let's move
:52:45. > :52:51.on to prisons, you made a speech this week. There is a crisis, 119
:52:52. > :52:59.suicide last year, a record high, and more than 25,000 assaults, 31%
:53:00. > :53:04.increase in Britain's prisons, that a crisis. There is a difficult
:53:05. > :53:08.situation in our prisons, I have acknowledged that, it has been
:53:09. > :53:11.building for a number of years but I don't believe the people who say
:53:12. > :53:16.things cannot get better or we need to release half the people in
:53:17. > :53:19.prisons to deal with it. We are recruiting more officers and for the
:53:20. > :53:23.first time ever, and this is what we are doing in the prisons and courts
:53:24. > :53:27.build this week, we will be saying the purpose of prisons is of course
:53:28. > :53:31.about punishing people but also has to be about reforming them. At the
:53:32. > :53:35.moment in legislation as Secretary of State is all I'm responsible for
:53:36. > :53:40.its housing prisoners. I think that is wrong. You talk about violence
:53:41. > :53:44.but that is not the only problem. The other problem is we are not
:53:45. > :53:49.reforming people. Within a year half of those people will go out and
:53:50. > :53:56.commit another crime and that's a huge problem as well. That and
:53:57. > :54:02.violence is connected because you've lost 6000 prison officers since the
:54:03. > :54:05.Government into power, since 2010. You are recruiting another 2500 but
:54:06. > :54:11.you won't get back up to the same numbers you had in 2010, will you?
:54:12. > :54:17.No, because prisons have changed, and we are running them in different
:54:18. > :54:21.ways. What this will enable us to do is for every prison officer they
:54:22. > :54:25.will have a caseload of six offenders they are supervising. They
:54:26. > :54:29.are encourage them, keeping them safe and encourage them to do the
:54:30. > :54:34.English and maths they need to get off drugs and get into the
:54:35. > :54:40.employment they need. You saw the reality presumably on that panorama
:54:41. > :54:45.programme. I have seen the reality in our prisons, I have visited 15
:54:46. > :54:50.and see what goes on. What you think when you see the appalling scenes,
:54:51. > :54:54.drugs freely available, officers completely losing it. This is
:54:55. > :54:58.exactly what I thought when I arrived in the job in July, that it
:54:59. > :55:02.isn't good enough, that we need to deal with it, that's why we are
:55:03. > :55:06.investing ?100 million in more prison officers, that's why we have
:55:07. > :55:10.the prison and courts bill, so we are reforming people in our jails as
:55:11. > :55:16.well as housing them, but this will take time. It's not something you
:55:17. > :55:20.can sort out in weeks or months, it takes time to recruit people and
:55:21. > :55:25.bring them on but I'm determined to deal with that. Your former
:55:26. > :55:29.colleague Jonathan Aitken has been a prisoner and in charge of government
:55:30. > :55:33.departments, he says this crisis is caused by the Treasury and Justice
:55:34. > :55:42.secretaries who have made these swingeing cuts. The story is very
:55:43. > :55:45.clear, you have cut too deeply. There has not been a rise in the
:55:46. > :55:53.number of prisoners. It's been aged 5000 since 2010 so the number of
:55:54. > :55:59.prisoners has stayed the same. We are putting away a record number of
:56:00. > :56:04.sex offenders and we have fewer people going to prison. We are out
:56:05. > :56:07.of time I'm afraid, but thank you very much anyway. Now let's look at
:56:08. > :56:12.what's coming up after the programme.
:56:13. > :56:17.We are in Edinburgh at ten o'clock debating cyber warfare, is Russian
:56:18. > :56:21.activity undermining the west, and the police - should more of them
:56:22. > :56:26.carry guns or tasers? And last of all, your sins. What does God see in
:56:27. > :56:30.you? We will be here at ten o'clock. Join me at the same time
:56:31. > :56:35.next Sunday when I'll be talking to Hollywood
:56:36. > :56:37.star Hugh Jackman. But for now, we leave
:56:38. > :56:39.you with Chuck Prophet. Last year, 2016, saw the deaths
:56:40. > :56:41.of so many great figures This is his take on that,
:56:42. > :56:46."Bad Year for Rock and Roll". # The Thin White Duke
:56:47. > :57:07.took a final bow # There's one more star
:57:08. > :57:10.in the heavens now # The moon won't rise,
:57:11. > :57:15.the sun won't set # There's so many things
:57:16. > :57:19.I would rather forget # And I'm all dressed
:57:20. > :57:22.up in my mohair suit # Watching Peter Sellers,
:57:23. > :57:26.thinking of you # Wondering where it's
:57:27. > :57:36.all going to end # It's been a bad year
:57:37. > :57:57.# I want to go out but I'll probably stay home
:57:58. > :58:02.# What are you going to do when your bird won't sing?
:58:03. > :58:09.# And what are you going to do when your last friend's gone
:58:10. > :58:13.# You're still at the ball and they've all moved on
:58:14. > :58:16.# I can see in your eyes it's not too late
:58:17. > :58:21.# We don't have to die to reach a better place
:58:22. > :58:41.# It's been a bad year for rock 'n'roll
:58:42. > :58:49.# I want to go out but I'll probably stay home