:00:00. > :00:18.And a deranged man who fits no easy pattern.
:00:19. > :00:20.Isn't the truth that sometimes it's completely impossible
:00:21. > :00:39.And we need to learn to live with that unhappy fact.
:00:40. > :00:41.True or not, Amber Rudd the Home Secretary has
:00:42. > :00:45.lots of questions to answer about social media, radicalisation
:00:46. > :00:51.and the proper balance between security and freedom.
:00:52. > :00:52.Also with me the Tory peer
:00:53. > :00:54.Sayeeda Warsi on British Islam - which she ironically
:00:55. > :01:13.But, with Article 50 being triggered on Wednesday,
:01:14. > :01:16.we'll be talking about that too, with Labour's Brexit
:01:17. > :01:26.questioning David Tennant about love, death and eternal damnation.
:01:27. > :01:28.That is very major question for a Sunday morning. What would my father
:01:29. > :01:35.say? We have our own hells. with some appropriate Bach,
:01:36. > :01:39.by that great violinist the human rights
:01:40. > :01:46.barrister and Labour Peer Helena Kennedy,
:01:47. > :01:48.Trevor Kavanagh, Associate Editor of the Sun, and Sarah Baxter,
:01:49. > :01:51.deputy editor of Sunday Times. All that
:01:52. > :01:54.coming up in a while. Police say they might never find out
:01:55. > :02:14.why Khalid Masood killed four people near the Houses
:02:15. > :02:16.of Parliament on Wednesday. Scotland Yard now say they believe
:02:17. > :02:18.he was acting alone. The family of PC Keith Palmer
:02:19. > :02:21.who was killed by Masood have released a statement,
:02:22. > :02:35.thanking those who were 82 seconds. In that time, he caused
:02:36. > :02:41.the death of three people and injured many more. He crashed the
:02:42. > :02:50.car into the gates and stabbed PC Keith Palmer to death. His family
:02:51. > :02:52.expressed their gratitude to the people who were with Keith in their
:02:53. > :03:07.last moments. Police believe he carried out the
:03:08. > :03:12.attack on his own but are trying to establish whether he was encouraged
:03:13. > :03:21.by others. Questions Remain unanswered about his roots to
:03:22. > :03:23.radical Islam. Since Wednesday, 11 people have been arrested. They've
:03:24. > :03:31.all been released except the 58-year-old man from Birmingham. He
:03:32. > :03:35.can be held without charge for 14 days. Members of the public have
:03:36. > :03:38.come to the scene of the attack to pay their respects to the four
:03:39. > :03:41.people who lost their lives and remember the many injured and who
:03:42. > :03:45.Remain in hospital. More than 30 people have been hurt -
:03:46. > :03:48.two of them seriously - after a suspected gas
:03:49. > :03:50.explosion in Merseyside. A dance centre for children
:03:51. > :03:52.was destroyed and customers at a Chinese restaurant were caught
:03:53. > :03:55.in the blast in US Central Command says it has
:03:56. > :04:01.opened an investigation into an air strike on the Iraqi city of Mosul
:04:02. > :04:08.which is reported to have killed dozens of civilians
:04:09. > :04:09.earlier this month. American officials have acknowledged
:04:10. > :04:11.that US-led coalition aircraft took part in the attack
:04:12. > :04:14.on part of the city controlled The United Nations has warned
:04:15. > :04:21.of a "terrible loss of life". The government will set out details
:04:22. > :04:24.of its plans to bring EU law into domestic legislation
:04:25. > :04:27.on Thursday - the day after Theresa May is set to start
:04:28. > :04:32.the formal Brexit process. The Great Repeal Bill
:04:33. > :04:39.will bring EU regulations into domestic law, allowing them
:04:40. > :04:44.to be amended or The bill will allow ministers
:04:45. > :04:49.to alter regulations without the full scrutiny
:04:50. > :04:51.of MPs and peers. In case you missed it,
:04:52. > :04:53.the clocks went forward this morning and some people working in the UK's
:04:54. > :04:56.tourism sector are calling The British Association
:04:57. > :04:59.of Leisure Parks, Piers and Attractions says an extra 80,000
:05:00. > :05:02.jobs will be created due It also says shifting time zones
:05:03. > :05:06.would encourage more outdoor activity and cut obesity levels -
:05:07. > :05:23.especially among children. The next news on BBC One
:05:24. > :05:41.is at One o'clock. The words of the MPs who tried to
:05:42. > :05:47.save him. 82 seconds, that is the entire time this attack took to play
:05:48. > :05:52.out. The mail on Sunday, there is a story about Prince William's
:05:53. > :06:11.helicopter coming close to being hit. They have gone with Ukip Civil
:06:12. > :06:19.War is not news. The Observer said 150 deaths. Inside, they can peer
:06:20. > :06:31.coalition strike with the way the Russians Acted. EU migrants will
:06:32. > :06:38.keep their benefits after we leave the EU, which will break a party
:06:39. > :06:44.manifesto pledge. Boris Johnson attacking disgusting Google over
:06:45. > :06:50.terrorist connections. Let's start with Khalid Masood. The Sunday
:06:51. > :06:58.papers have taken a breath and delved into the background of a man
:06:59. > :07:05.who used to be known as Adrian. He was a Jack the Lad at school, very
:07:06. > :07:11.popular, in a band, the lead figure. Popular with the ladies but always
:07:12. > :07:16.with this hint of violence and menace and very quickly drawn into
:07:17. > :07:21.petty crime. When we talk about the type of people who conduct acts of
:07:22. > :07:30.terror, very often they are converts, people involved in drug
:07:31. > :07:35.and drinks. And in prison as well. That is right. In prison, he was
:07:36. > :07:38.radicalised, a couple of years later he was on his way to Saudi Arabia
:07:39. > :07:45.and it is fascinating how fast that process happened. But he spent 20
:07:46. > :07:48.years drifting around with different women, always very attractive, that
:07:49. > :07:53.is his first partner, and his lovely daughter. He was brought up in very
:07:54. > :07:59.small communities and you can see that he was the mixed race kid in
:08:00. > :08:04.very white backgrounds. He spent a lot of time in East Sussex. Not
:08:05. > :08:11.exactly brought up in one of those inner-city immunities that we are
:08:12. > :08:17.told is the hotbed. If he was a lone wolf you can see that he was always
:08:18. > :08:22.an outsider, the glass clone, popular but with his own set of
:08:23. > :08:29.codes. If he is radicalised the question is how he is radicalised.
:08:30. > :08:34.That brings us to social media. You've got an interview with Boris
:08:35. > :08:40.Johnson who lets fly at Google. He gets very cross and says it is
:08:41. > :08:45.disgusting, they need to stop making money out of prurient violence and
:08:46. > :08:48.terror. They know personally we -- perfectly well that they are
:08:49. > :09:01.harbouring and sheltering people who mean to do us harm. It is not just
:09:02. > :09:06.terrorism, it is child pornography. Lots of filthy stuff. If the
:09:07. > :09:10.American companies can be fined billions of pounds for oil spillage
:09:11. > :09:18.is, surely we can do something on that level against Google? There is
:09:19. > :09:22.a question of political will. She has a piece on social media firms
:09:23. > :09:32.and that they've got to join the war on terror. We actually do have law
:09:33. > :09:46.about violence and if you have, there is a piece in the mail, it is
:09:47. > :09:56.a lesson in how to stab. Code you can kill someone who is wearing an
:09:57. > :10:00.anti-stab vests. It is online. If somebody was doing that in a
:10:01. > :10:11.classroom they would be arrested for inciting violence. So we do have
:10:12. > :10:15.tools at our disposal at the media, it is something that politicians are
:10:16. > :10:21.worried about taking on. Advertisers said they would not advertise with
:10:22. > :10:29.Google if they are putting the stuff out. Slipped down to ?500 billion in
:10:30. > :10:35.their share price. The truth is that you need to use your teeth if you're
:10:36. > :10:41.Home Secretary and make the media know that this kind of stuff is not
:10:42. > :10:45.possible. Should there be a change in the law? I think you've got stuff
:10:46. > :10:55.in your disposal already and you just need to be fierce about using
:10:56. > :10:59.it. You'd only need one prosecution. I don't like the idea of threatening
:11:00. > :11:04.prosecution but you should except when it's necessary. I think showing
:11:05. > :11:17.someone how to stab is crossing the line. You are endlessly attacking
:11:18. > :11:23.people for attacking the media, but is a messaging service the media?
:11:24. > :11:26.This is not the media, it is the electronic media. You would not get
:11:27. > :11:34.this in the British press or the American press, this is online. But
:11:35. > :11:37.nowadays there is so much power in those companies, it has shifted from
:11:38. > :11:44.your old-fashioned world and even those media outlets now have such
:11:45. > :11:51.incredible influence that people don't want to take them on. It is
:11:52. > :11:55.not just that, they used to think they were super cool and would look
:11:56. > :12:00.out of date if they intervened with these giants. The other government
:12:01. > :12:07.was very cool, they had Google in and out. I think we've woken up to
:12:08. > :12:16.the damage. There is also an attack on the tax situation. This may be
:12:17. > :12:24.the beginning. Can we go back to this man, we are seeing a shift, the
:12:25. > :12:32.attempt to recruit and make bombs has actually run into the sand and
:12:33. > :12:37.they are needing to rely on sociopaths, people with serious
:12:38. > :12:49.problems, who are outliers who are radicalised. It is very much on
:12:50. > :12:57.their own. He went to Saudi Arabia. It is often people feel no forum in
:12:58. > :13:08.their lives and suddenly a very limited, restrictive Islam provides
:13:09. > :13:11.rules. There is a common than armies -- denominator. They leave school
:13:12. > :13:19.and they become adults and they get into drug and drink. This applies to
:13:20. > :13:34.all those involved in the massacres in the east. He was a heavy drug use
:13:35. > :13:46.are pumping himself up on steroids. Yes, this is the point people will
:13:47. > :13:58.not address. It happened with the terrorist who killed Jill Cox. -- Jo
:13:59. > :14:04.Cox. He was poisoned with poisonous stuff around xenophobia. Shall we
:14:05. > :14:09.say intranet stuff? There was a lot of debate in the referendum about
:14:10. > :14:16.foreigners and he did not like that she was speaking passionately about
:14:17. > :14:21.refugees. Break at the top of the programme, given some of these
:14:22. > :14:35.people are individuals. They are individuals. All they need is a hire
:14:36. > :14:52.car and a knife. Absolutely. And all they need is 80 seconds to do that
:14:53. > :15:00.damage. We were promised an extra 1500 armed police officers but
:15:01. > :15:04.recruitment is not going well. Indeed. One of the things that came
:15:05. > :15:11.out is far from having armed police there, there were none. Apart from
:15:12. > :15:18.the protection officers I complete coincidence. They were not even
:15:19. > :15:29.routinely moving around the buildings. We have spoken a lot
:15:30. > :15:38.about the terror attack. Let's move on to the Observer's coverage of the
:15:39. > :15:44.EU demonstration. The estimates are always below the reality. Or the
:15:45. > :15:53.reverse, maybe. I don't think so. It was a defiant demonstration against
:15:54. > :15:57.Brexit. It was also saying, 48% of people who voted, not even the fool
:15:58. > :16:03.electorate, really wanted to Remain in the Europe, the message from that
:16:04. > :16:08.is the kind of excerpts reflecting the fact that people voted in the
:16:09. > :16:13.majority to leave must be softer than what has been allowed for.
:16:14. > :16:14.People were saying we want something different from what is being talked
:16:15. > :16:25.about. As a Labour peer, isn't that an
:16:26. > :16:32.example of Labour's weakness, that there has to be a demonstration
:16:33. > :16:35.outside the gates of Parliament? I thought it was regrettable we didn't
:16:36. > :16:40.take a much stronger position on the fact that actually this is going to
:16:41. > :16:45.be... Hard Brexit is going to be very tough on ordinary folk, but
:16:46. > :16:52.also middle-class people, that in fact people did not vote to be
:16:53. > :16:58.impoverished. I haven't always been a fan of David Davis but he has been
:16:59. > :17:02.one of the surprise success stories of this Brexit government. He is a
:17:03. > :17:11.trained SAS killer who used to be known famously for... If he sort of
:17:12. > :17:15.back he would starve it. He has come out as a harmonious figure, saying
:17:16. > :17:27.this doesn't need to be a hard Brexit. -- if he saw a back he'd
:17:28. > :17:37.stab it. Is the Europeans want to play at hard, we will end up with a
:17:38. > :17:42.hard Brexit. There will be a deal allowing EU migrants to keep their
:17:43. > :17:49.benefits... I mean this Government does seem to have an easier as far
:17:50. > :17:54.as its original... Before we finally run out of time, the Ukip story, a
:17:55. > :17:59.certain amount of amusement that Douglas Carswell was this unlikely
:18:00. > :18:04.figure for Ukip, had a long war with Nigel Farage right the way through,
:18:05. > :18:09.now he's out as an independent. And then war goes on. They have all
:18:10. > :18:13.stabbed each other so many times there is literally not one person
:18:14. > :18:19.left standing. It's a coincidence because we are on the eve of a great
:18:20. > :18:23.bill and there is no point to Ukip any more whatsoever. They will
:18:24. > :18:27.disagree, they have a very big week ahead. Thank you to all of you, very
:18:28. > :18:29.interesting. Sayeeda Warsi, a former
:18:30. > :18:31.minister in David Cameron's coalition government,
:18:32. > :18:32.was the UK's first Muslim Now in the House of Lords, she's
:18:33. > :18:38.an outspoken critic of her own party over its counter terrorism strategy
:18:39. > :18:40.and policies towards She's just about to publish a book
:18:41. > :18:48.about Muslims in Britain - Welcome, Baroness Warsi. In this
:18:49. > :18:54.book you lay out the pattern of the kind of people who commit terror,
:18:55. > :19:01.and actually in this latest case, Massoud seems to fit it neatly. And
:19:02. > :19:07.one of the questions I have asked for a number of years now is what
:19:08. > :19:15.makes a jihadi. There is so much expert intelligence out there,
:19:16. > :19:18.academics, researchers, people who have studied deeply the lives of
:19:19. > :19:24.these terrorists who say there can be anything up to about 28 different
:19:25. > :19:28.reasons, different tell-tale signs and my argument has consistently
:19:29. > :19:32.been that the Government has obsessively focused on one, which we
:19:33. > :19:37.refer to as Islamist ideology, which is important but it is but one
:19:38. > :19:42.factor. And this is an example of someone who was not born a Muslim
:19:43. > :19:47.and convert relatively late in life and is radicalised in prison. If we
:19:48. > :19:50.had a different way of searching for these people, what would it look
:19:51. > :19:56.like? It is difficult to search for these people, in the past there has
:19:57. > :19:59.been a narrative which says somehow Muslim communities know who these
:20:00. > :20:04.people are amongst themselves, that somehow not only do they know them
:20:05. > :20:07.but they are condemning them and maybe even sheltering them. What we
:20:08. > :20:13.have seen in the terrorist attack from last week is it is incredibly
:20:14. > :20:16.difficult. This is a young man born in a Christian home, a fairly
:20:17. > :20:23.comfortable home, seemed to be giving a fairly good lifestyle, was
:20:24. > :20:26.popular, then got involved in criminality. He didn't convert to
:20:27. > :20:31.Islam until later in life, so he was a violent Christian long before he
:20:32. > :20:36.was a violent Muslim. I'm not sure even his own family would know you'd
:20:37. > :20:41.go on to commit such an extreme and so it is important to go back to
:20:42. > :20:46.evidence -based policy making. Why is it that you get these damaged,
:20:47. > :20:52.violence, often drug-taking young men, and they convert again and
:20:53. > :20:57.again to Islam for they commit acts? They don't choose other religions,
:20:58. > :21:02.they choose Islam. Although there are people around the world who are
:21:03. > :21:07.evangelical Christians who commit acts, even Buddhists who commit
:21:08. > :21:13.acts. People always want to find a cause. No one will say I am an
:21:14. > :21:17.extremist, I want to commit violent acts because that's the kind of
:21:18. > :21:26.violent man I am, which clearly Khalid Masood was. If you go back to
:21:27. > :21:29.the GBH he was convicted of in early life, there is some suggestion that
:21:30. > :21:33.the argument he gave to court at that time was that he had been
:21:34. > :21:38.racially abused so his violent act was based on his racial identity so
:21:39. > :21:42.people will always find a grievance. In your book you are very eloquent
:21:43. > :21:47.about the pressure now and the sense of despair felt by a lot of Muslims
:21:48. > :21:50.in this country about Islamophobia but isn't it also the case, and
:21:51. > :21:57.although Islam is a peaceful religion for the vast majority of
:21:58. > :22:01.people, there is a strain of modern Islamic thought which is extremely
:22:02. > :22:13.aggressive, it sees life on this planet as an eternal fight between
:22:14. > :22:17.the righteous and the unbelievers. I think Madeleine Albright put it
:22:18. > :22:22.best, she said every religious text has the potential to create eternal
:22:23. > :22:28.peace and the potential to create eternal war. If you take any text
:22:29. > :22:32.from any religion and try to use it in a way that justifies violence we
:22:33. > :22:47.can do that. I come from a very mixed theological background, a
:22:48. > :22:52.strong sunny -- Sunni family... It is people who are violent and
:22:53. > :22:57.extreme, who will use any text to try to justify their position. In
:22:58. > :23:00.your book, The Enemy Within, you have recommendations for different
:23:01. > :23:05.groups including Muslims in Britain, can you say what you think us to
:23:06. > :23:09.change among Muslim communities in Britain, because a lot of them are
:23:10. > :23:13.closed off from the rest of society and have turned their backs on
:23:14. > :23:19.mainstream British society. One of the arguments I make is that Britain
:23:20. > :23:22.and Islam have known each other since seventh century Britain, we
:23:23. > :23:34.have had interactions for hundreds of years and it is important,
:23:35. > :23:37.especially for a post 9/11 Britain, that it is important to
:23:38. > :23:41.contextualise this relationship. I have an open conversation with my
:23:42. > :23:45.co-religionists in this book and I say I'm having this conversation
:23:46. > :23:50.with you is not because you are terrorists, you're not, there are 3
:23:51. > :23:58.million of them, us, and everyone in this country would have perished if
:23:59. > :24:03.they were, but is the community fit for purpose. So what I talk to the
:24:04. > :24:06.British Muslim communities about is not counterterrorism, but whether
:24:07. > :24:11.they are the best community they could possibly be for Britain 2017.
:24:12. > :24:18.When the state is dealing with Islamic ideology they have this...
:24:19. > :24:23.Islamist ideology. They don't like that word. It's not factually
:24:24. > :24:29.correct. It's an academic discussion. Nonetheless, when people
:24:30. > :24:36.are against this thing, whatever it is, they have this strategy called
:24:37. > :24:43.Prevent, which you are very critical of. It is one of the four strands,
:24:44. > :24:50.and there is a lobby out there which trashes Prevent and says we don't
:24:51. > :24:55.need it, another lobby says it is perfect. Where I would stand is I
:24:56. > :25:00.think the reality is somewhere in between. Prevent in its current form
:25:01. > :25:05.has huge problems, it is broken, the brand is toxic, there are questions
:25:06. > :25:09.over the training, the trainers, the level of quality of training within
:25:10. > :25:14.schools, how it is being implemented on the front line, and therefore
:25:15. > :25:18.what I've asked for is a pause, an independent review, look at what has
:25:19. > :25:27.worked and what hasn't, and then put in place a Prevent-like strategy
:25:28. > :25:31.that is trusted by the communities it is trying to engage. Thank you
:25:32. > :25:32.for talking to us. Every week I brightly announce
:25:33. > :25:36.that spring has arrived. And every week an icy grey downpour
:25:37. > :25:38.is the celestial response. Can the Gods of the weather
:25:39. > :25:41.do better this time? Over to Chris Fawkes
:25:42. > :25:52.in the weather studio. I will do my best. Over the next few
:25:53. > :25:58.days we have some warm sunshine to come, high pressure in charge, a
:25:59. > :26:03.glorious sunshine to start the day. There are a few bits and pieces of
:26:04. > :26:08.cloud around, one long working across London at the moment. Some
:26:09. > :26:12.missed in the Western Isles, cloudy in Shetland, but apart from that it
:26:13. > :26:21.is almost wall-to-wall sunshine across the UK. Temperature s could
:26:22. > :26:26.reach 19 degrees in Scotland so the warmest day so far. It will be a
:26:27. > :26:29.chilly night, in parts of rural Northern Ireland, Scotland and
:26:30. > :26:34.England there could be pockets of frost. Maybe some patches of cloud
:26:35. > :26:37.to start the day across eastern England but generally a decent start
:26:38. > :26:41.of the new working week with the high pressure continuing to bring
:26:42. > :26:46.sunny, warm weather, but there will be changes on Tuesday with outbreaks
:26:47. > :26:55.of rain on the way particularly affecting western areas. Here is
:26:56. > :26:56.Monday's forecast, this cloud breaking up with sunshine coming
:26:57. > :26:59.through widely. With lighter winds across south-east England it will
:27:00. > :27:03.warm up, although generally the warmest weather will be across
:27:04. > :27:05.western parts of the UK. Thing is not looking too bad but changes
:27:06. > :27:10.midweek. Andrew. The real fight starts now,
:27:11. > :27:12.says Jeremy Corbyn, The Shadow Brexit Secretary
:27:13. > :27:24.Keir Starmer is with me. Good morning. It's a big week for
:27:25. > :27:29.Brexit and you have said the Labour Party will hold the Government to
:27:30. > :27:33.account, so when? Would you mind if I just say on behalf of all MPs from
:27:34. > :27:39.all parties that we send our condolences to the victims and their
:27:40. > :27:48.families and of special thanks to Keith Palmer who died protecting us.
:27:49. > :27:53.Thank you for that. Moving back to the Brexit story, this is a big week
:27:54. > :27:57.for Brexit, the big repeal bill is coming and Article 50 is being
:27:58. > :28:03.triggered and you have said it will hold the Government to account and I
:28:04. > :28:14.must just ask you how. I'm setting out six tests for the final Brexit
:28:15. > :28:18.deal. Now what comes into focus is what is the right deal because this
:28:19. > :28:22.is about our future relationship with the EU so I'm setting out six
:28:23. > :28:28.tests for the Government, we then start a two year process and it is
:28:29. > :28:33.for the Government to negotiate and come back with a deal that's right
:28:34. > :28:38.for our country. And luckily I have your six tests here, I won't go
:28:39. > :28:42.through all of them. You say you want a strong, collaborative future
:28:43. > :28:48.relationship with the EU, I would suggest everyone wants that. You
:28:49. > :28:55.would say that but some of the pure Brexiteers want's to crush out even
:28:56. > :29:00.at the Article 50 stage or before that. It's important to say that
:29:01. > :29:03.because not everyone is in that place. You will have seen the words
:29:04. > :29:07.of some this week about what might happen if we don't have a deal, in
:29:08. > :29:13.your view how damaging would it be not to have a deal? Very damaging,
:29:14. > :29:17.economically, that's what the Mayor of London and many others have said,
:29:18. > :29:22.in pure economic terms, but there's also Britain's place in Europe and
:29:23. > :29:30.the world. If we crush out without a deal with no meaningful
:29:31. > :29:33.relationships. I accept we will be members but we must be partners.
:29:34. > :29:37.Let's come onto the second bit, you say we want the exact same benefits,
:29:38. > :29:42.your words, from the single market and the customs union, can I put to
:29:43. > :29:46.you that that is not going to happen. We are outside both of those
:29:47. > :29:51.things. It was made plain we cannot get all of the same benefits as if
:29:52. > :29:56.we were inside so therefore that's a hopeless thing to ask for. We are
:29:57. > :30:01.not inside, I accept that, I do not accept we can't have the same
:30:02. > :30:07.benefits. Those words, exact same benefits, they are not my words.
:30:08. > :30:11.They are in my text but they are taken from David Davis, the
:30:12. > :30:15.Secretary of State for Exiting the EU. When he was pressed on this in
:30:16. > :30:18.Parliament, he said he would deliver a comprehensive free trade agreement
:30:19. > :30:22.and customs arrangements that delivered the exact same benefits as
:30:23. > :30:28.the single market and customs union so we are hoping -- holding him to
:30:29. > :30:32.that. The Government cannot turn around and say this is not
:30:33. > :30:39.achievable because it was David Davis who set that. Now we come onto
:30:40. > :30:43.the interesting bit which is that Mr Juncker this week and many others
:30:44. > :30:49.have said it may be achievable but there's a real price to pay. It's
:30:50. > :30:54.about ?50 billion, is that a price worth paying?
:30:55. > :31:03.I would get into the price but it is worth establishing what the money is
:31:04. > :31:11.for, what are the principles to be applied to it, and then the Prime
:31:12. > :31:15.Minister should say, we are a country that will meet our
:31:16. > :31:20.obligations and when a figure is arrived that that is one the UK
:31:21. > :31:27.will... You accept that we will need to pay a fairly hefty bill to get
:31:28. > :31:30.access to the single market? There will be a bill and we should say
:31:31. > :31:37.that we are a country that honours our obligation. How much and over
:31:38. > :31:40.what period is to be negotiated. This should be transitional
:31:41. > :31:43.arrangements from March 2019 until we reach and conclude the
:31:44. > :31:54.relationship that we need. That could be paid over a longer period
:31:55. > :31:58.if we get the right relationship. You talk about the fair management
:31:59. > :32:14.of migration which is a fairly bland thing to say. What is Labour's
:32:15. > :32:20.immigration policy? Immigration was part of the debate and civil freedom
:32:21. > :32:27.of movement has to go. Your leader suggested that might not be the
:32:28. > :32:33.case. It is an EU rule. It will have to go and therefore there is a blank
:32:34. > :32:38.use of paper. But we must have managed migration, I think the most
:32:39. > :32:47.important things are, firstly, what will work for the economy and what
:32:48. > :32:50.is right for our communities. Do you see EU migration falling
:32:51. > :32:55.dramatically? I think it might but I've spoken to hundreds of
:32:56. > :32:58.businesses who are very concerned that there should be the right rules
:32:59. > :33:08.in place to enable them to continue with their businesses. But you rule
:33:09. > :33:12.out freedom of movement? It is an EU rules so it will go. We will then
:33:13. > :33:22.start with the principles that we need to apply to this. Your leader
:33:23. > :33:29.said, we do not rule it out. That is one where he said, I will not rule
:33:30. > :33:35.it out or commit to it. The reality is it is an EU rule and it will grow
:33:36. > :33:44.when we depart. That gives us an opportunity to say, what does a
:33:45. > :33:51.principled immigration policy look like? There are your principles. If
:33:52. > :33:57.you don't get them what do you do? I hope that the Prime Minister gets
:33:58. > :34:06.the right one for country. If you don't get what you want, what going
:34:07. > :34:12.to happen to make the Prime Minister change her mind? This is where the
:34:13. > :34:19.work we've done comes into play. We set the tests tomorrow, we have a
:34:20. > :34:23.report back so we know where we are going. We also won a concession in
:34:24. > :34:28.the house so we will have fought on the final deal. If the test is not
:34:29. > :34:36.met then we will not support the deal. Is there any chance of there
:34:37. > :34:44.being enough Tory rebels alongside the SNP and Liberal Democrat to
:34:45. > :34:51.defeat the government? The balance in the house is for our strong
:34:52. > :34:57.collaborative relationship and not extreme Brexit. I would hope that
:34:58. > :35:08.the place we land and then we go on to transitional measures. Do you
:35:09. > :35:13.agree with Tom Watson that there is an organised attempt by left-wingers
:35:14. > :35:20.to tape over -- take of the Labour Party? I think Tom Watson was quite
:35:21. > :35:26.right to call them out on what happened last week. But we do need
:35:27. > :35:32.to find a way to come together and fight the important fights. We've
:35:33. > :35:39.got article 50 being triggered on Wednesday. There are big issues the
:35:40. > :35:43.Labour Party needs to be focused on. It looks as if the fight over the
:35:44. > :35:51.union leadership as a proxy for the Labour Party. Do you have a message?
:35:52. > :35:55.I don't have a message for Len McCluskey or anyone else other than
:35:56. > :35:59.we should celebrate that we've got some new members but we need to come
:36:00. > :36:03.together and we need to have clarity about what we are for. Thank you
:36:04. > :36:07.very much for talking to us. Ever since his five-year
:36:08. > :36:09.residency as Doctor Who, David Tennant's been universally
:36:10. > :36:11.acclaimed on stage and screen. He's about to open in one
:36:12. > :36:14.of the filthiest and funniest plays We caught up a stone's throw
:36:15. > :36:18.from Soho where he'll be strutting his stuff for 11 weeks
:36:19. > :36:20.as Moliere's Don Juan, Tennant's father
:36:21. > :36:23.was a man of the cloth, so we discussed the moral message
:36:24. > :36:27.of Moliere and damnation itself. First though, we talked about the TV
:36:28. > :36:33.success that is Broadchurch. Can you make a time to come down
:36:34. > :36:37.to the station for a full statement about your movements
:36:38. > :36:40.on Saturday night? Is there any particular
:36:41. > :36:43.reason I need to do that? We need all the details we can get,
:36:44. > :36:50.it was your party after all. I will need you to give a sample
:36:51. > :36:53.of DNA, we will be asking everyone Up and down the country,
:36:54. > :37:00.little groups of writers are scurrying away, trying
:37:01. > :37:02.to produce a TV hit. They look at Broadchurch
:37:03. > :37:04.and they think, why If you could isolate
:37:05. > :37:12.the elements that turn things into gold you would be
:37:13. > :37:17.an alchemist, wouldn't you? An awful lot of it depends
:37:18. > :37:19.on your relationship It's the chemistry
:37:20. > :37:23.between the two of view. I think yes, I think Olivia
:37:24. > :37:25.and I would both say that comes from the writing,
:37:26. > :37:27.that's where it starts. It's the fact Chris Chibnall writes
:37:28. > :37:30.these fantastic scripts and gives us I mean it helps that Olivia is not
:37:31. > :37:38.bad and rather funny. Could you describe your
:37:39. > :37:45.marriage to us, Kath? I'd describe it
:37:46. > :37:58.as loveless, that do? You've also had to deal with huge
:37:59. > :38:04.secrecy about the twists and turns of the plot,
:38:05. > :38:06.kept secret even from... So, you don't know
:38:07. > :38:09.what's going to happen? You don't, but then as a policeman
:38:10. > :38:12.that's quite useful, it transpires. You know, you can get a little
:38:13. > :38:15.grumpy about the fact that you don't quite know where the story is going,
:38:16. > :38:18.but then when you're in an interview situation and you have
:38:19. > :38:21.no idea the actor across the table from you is lying, in character
:38:22. > :38:25.or not, it's quite helpful really. And we only know as each new script
:38:26. > :38:29.comes what happens in it. And for that audience,
:38:30. > :38:31.lapping it up week after week, Chris Chibnall has a big
:38:32. > :38:39.new job coming up. He's going to be running a little
:38:40. > :38:41.suit called Doctor Who, I don't know if you know it,
:38:42. > :38:45.so he's going to be quite busy. Don Juan in Soho, it's based
:38:46. > :38:50.on a Moliere play but give us Yes, it's quite brutally updated,
:38:51. > :38:55.it's very much in the London of now He is a womaniser, he's
:38:56. > :39:03.a chaser of pleasure. He's arguably a sociopath and it's
:39:04. > :39:07.the story of a couple of days in his hectic,
:39:08. > :39:12.extraordinary, intoxicating life. This is possibly one of the
:39:13. > :39:16.filthiest plays I have ever seen. Also very, very funny, and in
:39:17. > :39:21.the end it's a moralistic play. To what extent is this,
:39:22. > :39:24.in the end, a sermon? It poses the life of this
:39:25. > :39:34.extraordinary hedonist and it makes you wonder what that might be like,
:39:35. > :39:38.to be a libertarian, And at first, I think
:39:39. > :39:44.it's rather exciting, it's rather intoxicating and yet
:39:45. > :39:49.inevitably the chickens come home to roost and life doesn't
:39:50. > :39:53.really work that way. And the audience watching,
:39:54. > :39:55.horrified fascination, this man with really no moral
:39:56. > :39:57.scruples at all. But towards the end,
:39:58. > :40:04.hell is beginning to gape. It is, and he sort of knows
:40:05. > :40:07.in the back of his mind that it's coming, there is kind
:40:08. > :40:10.of ticking clock. The supernatural literally rises
:40:11. > :40:13.from the earth to get him. That's a very major question
:40:14. > :40:21.for Sunday morning. I think we all have our own hells
:40:22. > :40:30.that we are running from, don't we? Is that an ambiguous
:40:31. > :40:33.enough answer for you? It's a heck of a role,
:40:34. > :40:36.how does it compare with Hamlet? Because a lot of people
:40:37. > :40:38.remember your Hamlet, may have seen it on the screen
:40:39. > :40:41.if they haven't seen it in the theatre, and in a sense this
:40:42. > :40:45.is almost as big a role in terms of the number of words,
:40:46. > :40:47.the amount of time you spend on the stage leaping around,
:40:48. > :40:50.very athletic, very relentless, It is a different part,
:40:51. > :40:54.although there's a journey I think the greatest roles all have
:40:55. > :41:01.that in there somewhere. It starts in a very different place,
:41:02. > :41:05.it's bawdier, although Hamlet It's a modern sex comedy in a way
:41:06. > :41:15.that Hamlet probably usually isn't, but there's a trajectory
:41:16. > :41:22.of the character there which has You mentioned Doctor Who,
:41:23. > :41:26.and Mr Capaldi is hanging up his funny hat and so forth
:41:27. > :41:29.and stepping to one side. I remember talking to you before
:41:30. > :41:34.you became Doctor Who and we were discussing how this
:41:35. > :41:37.was going to completely change your I think you were taking your
:41:38. > :41:40.girlfriend to a rock "I will never be able to do that
:41:41. > :41:44.again in the same way." And what's your advice
:41:45. > :41:48.to whoever is taking over? Because the show is so big
:41:49. > :41:55.and because people love it so much and so deeply,
:41:56. > :41:57.and because it's part it's part of our cultural furniture,
:41:58. > :42:02.Doctor Who, and that's a huge honour to be in the middle of, but it's
:42:03. > :42:07.quite a responsibility as well. I mean it opens a lot of doors,
:42:08. > :42:12.I get to be in the West End and that's due in no small part
:42:13. > :42:15.to the fact Doctor Who brought me to a new audience,
:42:16. > :42:18.but it's an undertaking. I mean, it's desperately
:42:19. > :42:21.exciting for whoever the next person might be,
:42:22. > :42:24.but yes, it takes a deep breath. Do you know who the
:42:25. > :42:27.next Doctor Who is? I don't, but I'd have
:42:28. > :42:30.to say that even if I did! Later this morning, Andrew Neil
:42:31. > :42:40.will have the latest on the investigation
:42:41. > :42:43.into the Westminster terror attack. He'll be talking to the Leader
:42:44. > :42:46.of the House of Commons, David Lidington and -
:42:47. > :42:49.as UKIP's only MP quits the party - That's the Sunday Politics
:42:50. > :42:55.at 11 here on BBC One. There are lots of questions
:42:56. > :42:58.still to answer about this week's Now, it may be that it's too early
:42:59. > :43:03.to get all the answers we want, but if anyone is privy to the real
:43:04. > :43:20.story, it's my next guest. In your view is this a lone attacker
:43:21. > :43:26.or is there a wider logic? What we are hearing from the places they
:43:27. > :43:30.believe it is a lone attacker. It is an ongoing investigation, they are
:43:31. > :43:33.investigating his journey, the people he spoke to, we cannot be
:43:34. > :43:46.completely conclusive but as we find out more, that is what it will
:43:47. > :43:49.confirm. We know that there was a contact before the attack and if we
:43:50. > :43:56.knew who that was and to whom, we would no more. But the message
:43:57. > :44:05.system is encrypted at both ends and the security services will never see
:44:06. > :44:12.what you do. We've got this here. Messages are secured with end-to-end
:44:13. > :44:16.encryption. It tells you, you will be completely safe, nobody will ever
:44:17. > :44:22.see you. That is what a lot of people think terrorists are using.
:44:23. > :44:27.If that situation completely unacceptable? That is my view, it is
:44:28. > :44:31.somewhere that should be completely unacceptable. There should be no
:44:32. > :44:35.place for terrorists to hide. We need to make sure that they do not
:44:36. > :44:40.provide a secret place for terrorists to communicate with each
:44:41. > :44:43.other. It used to be that people would steam open envelopes or listen
:44:44. > :44:48.on phones to find out what people were doing but in this situation we
:44:49. > :44:52.must make sure our intelligence services have the ability to get
:44:53. > :45:00.into situations like encrypted messaging. This is the same argument
:45:01. > :45:04.going on with Apple, who said they are not going to allow the American
:45:05. > :45:09.authorities to open a back door into their product and if they don't do
:45:10. > :45:13.it then this encryption continues. Do you think they've got to take on
:45:14. > :45:20.the big Internet companies and force them to open up their devices? If I
:45:21. > :45:24.was talking to Tim Cook I would say we don't want to go into the cloud,
:45:25. > :45:30.do all sorts of things like that, but they want -- we want them to
:45:31. > :45:34.recognise they have a responsibility to engage with law enforcement
:45:35. > :45:40.agencies when there is a terrorist situation. We would do it through
:45:41. > :45:46.careful, legally tight arrangements but we cannot get away with them
:45:47. > :45:51.saying it is not. Tim Cook said it would be wrong for the government to
:45:52. > :45:56.build a back door into our products and yet without that you cannot find
:45:57. > :45:58.out what you need to find out. I would ask him again to find out
:45:59. > :46:08.other ways of getting into situations like WhatsApp on the
:46:09. > :46:14.apple phone. That's why I am calling in a lot of organisations to ask
:46:15. > :46:21.them to work with us to deliver the answer. It is not about them
:46:22. > :46:26.standing back from us. Can I ask who you are calling in? It is a fairly
:46:27. > :46:30.long list but smaller companies as well to make sure there's no hiding
:46:31. > :46:35.place for terrorists. I want to make sure everyone takes responsibility.
:46:36. > :46:42.There are plenty of hiding places at the moment. If WhatsApp say they
:46:43. > :46:43.will not end encryption, alone or as messages to carry on, will you
:46:44. > :46:53.legislate? I do agree we have to have a
:46:54. > :46:57.situation where we can have our security services get into the
:46:58. > :47:00.terrorist communications, that's absolutely the case so of course I
:47:01. > :47:05.will have those conversations. Because this is a big selling point,
:47:06. > :47:10.they advertise this as a positive virtue of their systems. They will
:47:11. > :47:17.not want to change, you will have to make them change. I'm not saying I
:47:18. > :47:20.want to get into your WhatsApp, and saying where there are ongoing
:47:21. > :47:25.investigations with terrorists, people with families and children
:47:26. > :47:29.should be on our side and I will try to win the argument. A parallel
:47:30. > :47:34.situation, much discussion in the press this week has been the use of
:47:35. > :47:38.big online sites to advocate all kinds of horrible and hate filled
:47:39. > :47:44.terrorist related stuff and it took 30 seconds... I won't show it on
:47:45. > :47:51.air, but guidelines for doing just terror operations and it shows you
:47:52. > :47:56.how to stab someone to death if they are wearing a stab proof vest. Again
:47:57. > :48:00.I put it to you this is an acceptable in the world we now live.
:48:01. > :48:05.It is completely unacceptable and we have been active making sure we get
:48:06. > :48:10.that message out. In my department would take down that sort of
:48:11. > :48:15.imagery, we have taken down 250,000 since 2010. But this has been
:48:16. > :48:20.voluntary and after the event. This stuff is out where and you may have
:48:21. > :48:24.to legislate and use the law against these companies to stop it from
:48:25. > :48:28.happening. What these companies have to realise is they are publishing
:48:29. > :48:33.companies, they are platforms and we need to make sure that stops. You
:48:34. > :48:37.are right, we will not resile from taking action if we need to do so
:48:38. > :48:40.but there has been a lot of good action taken, for instance on child
:48:41. > :48:50.sexual exploitation may have worked together. He would tell people to
:48:51. > :48:54.take that down? Absolutely we would. If you look at companies like Amazon
:48:55. > :48:58.and Google, they are such big, powerful companies that Amber Rudd
:48:59. > :49:03.and the British government are not really up to taking them on, they
:49:04. > :49:06.are too big for you. I would say think again because we want to do
:49:07. > :49:10.this but we also want other countries to do this. I'm in
:49:11. > :49:14.conversations with the US and the European Union have said they will
:49:15. > :49:20.talk to us about these items. Do you like the German plan to put fines on
:49:21. > :49:23.companies who put this up? I would rather have a situation where we get
:49:24. > :49:28.all of these companies around the table agreeing to do it. I know it
:49:29. > :49:33.sounds like we are stepping away from legislation but we are not. The
:49:34. > :49:37.best people who understand the technology and the necessary
:49:38. > :49:42.hashtags to stop this stuff being put up are going to be them, and I
:49:43. > :49:46.would like to have an industrywide board setup where they do it
:49:47. > :49:51.themselves. They could do this, I want to make sure they do. Another
:49:52. > :49:56.way of looking at this attack is that it was incredibly low hiring a
:49:57. > :50:03.car and buying a knife. Isn't the real truth that in this world and
:50:04. > :50:07.those kind of attacks can't always be stopped. If you tripled the
:50:08. > :50:13.budget for MI5 and MI6, they still wouldn't be able to catch everybody.
:50:14. > :50:18.I'm afraid that is the sad truth. We have been at the threat level of
:50:19. > :50:23.severe for two and a half years, we haven't had an Islamist attack like
:50:24. > :50:29.this for four years but they will always try to attack us in our homes
:50:30. > :50:33.and in the centre of democracy. And this guy was peripheral, not on the
:50:34. > :50:49.radar in any serious way? I cannot comment any more, I --. It was a
:50:50. > :50:53.pure coincidence there were armed police there, and for a lot of
:50:54. > :51:00.people that is really strange that the main gate into Parliament at the
:51:01. > :51:04.time of a severe terror alert had no armed police on it. There are
:51:05. > :51:09.constant reviews and updates so we have the right form of defence in
:51:10. > :51:13.Parliament. It is not something we take lightly and as a result of this
:51:14. > :51:17.there will be another review. There are armed police in the Palace of
:51:18. > :51:25.Westminster so the decisions that have already been made have been
:51:26. > :51:31.carefully considered. Can you confirm it was Michael Fallon's
:51:32. > :51:36.people who did this? I can't, no. This throws in the air the business
:51:37. > :51:40.of emptying out Parliament and putting it somewhere else as the
:51:41. > :51:44.refurbishment goes on, do you think as a result of the attack this needs
:51:45. > :51:52.to be looked at again? The refurbishment comes back again and
:51:53. > :51:58.again, the best way to do it. Security needs to be watertight
:51:59. > :52:02.because MPs to feel under threat in their constituencies and Parliament.
:52:03. > :52:06.This wasn't about MPs, this was individual tourists walking down the
:52:07. > :52:13.street, it was an assault on the country. You may have heard Baroness
:52:14. > :52:18.Warsi talking about Prevent, she said it is time to have a pause, a
:52:19. > :52:25.judicial review and think again, but I think you intend to double down on
:52:26. > :52:29.it instead. I think it is the wrong time to have a pause, we need to
:52:30. > :52:34.have active communities trying to stop people becoming radicalised so
:52:35. > :52:37.I wouldn't pause it but I do recognise what Baroness Warsi said
:52:38. > :52:42.about needing to make more of an effort to sell it to communities. We
:52:43. > :52:49.need to show this is a safeguarding initiative about protecting young
:52:50. > :52:59.people. Let me ask you about the ban own laptops by some airlines. If
:53:00. > :53:05.tourists have found ways to turn laptops into bombs, presumably there
:53:06. > :53:10.should eventually be a full-time ban on laptops on aircraft anyway. It is
:53:11. > :53:13.difficult to say whether we will at some stage arrive at that place but
:53:14. > :53:17.at the moment the Government has made a decision on where to have the
:53:18. > :53:22.ban in place based on the intelligence we have received. Can I
:53:23. > :53:28.turn to Brexit, in simple terms how damaging would it be to this country
:53:29. > :53:31.not to have a deal? I think as the Prime Minister said it would be
:53:32. > :53:35.worse to have a bad deal than not to have a deal so we will enter into
:53:36. > :53:43.the negotiations over the next few weeks and two years to make sure we
:53:44. > :53:45.do get a deal. In my exchanges with interior ministries, in my area on
:53:46. > :53:50.security, it has been a very big welcome in terms of wanting this to
:53:51. > :53:53.work with them, wanting to have an engagement with the European Union
:53:54. > :53:58.that will continue the work we do with them. One description of no
:53:59. > :54:03.deal is more than 4 million citizens confronted with extreme uncertainty
:54:04. > :54:07.about their future, lengthening lorry queues at Dover, serious
:54:08. > :54:13.disruption in air traffic and possibly even nuclear fuel
:54:14. > :54:28.shortages. It's fair to say I don't recognise that description. That is
:54:29. > :54:34.the main negotiator, Michel Barnier. Of course he would say that. The UK
:54:35. > :54:39.economy is doing well and the world economy is doing well... I think
:54:40. > :54:47.there was a lot of positioning right now. Over the next two years I hope
:54:48. > :54:53.people will calm down and we will see a good deal work for us and the
:54:54. > :54:58.European Union. You want us to have full access to the single market and
:54:59. > :55:02.Customs union, they are saying that comes at a price, a ?50 billion deal
:55:03. > :55:07.was discussed this week by Mr Juncker, is that something we will
:55:08. > :55:10.end up having to pay? I do think we should have the widest possible
:55:11. > :55:15.access to the single market, that's what would be good to the economy.
:55:16. > :55:24.And that would be worth paying? We don't know what the cost will be. We
:55:25. > :55:27.have a lot to offer in this negotiation as well so we mustn't
:55:28. > :55:30.forget it will be two ways. I'm sure we will be talking about this for
:55:31. > :55:31.many months to come but the now thank you very much indeed.
:55:32. > :55:34.Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
:55:35. > :55:39.At ten o'clock in Oxford we will be debating whether hours of
:55:40. > :55:44.broadcasting about terrorist offence gives them exactly what they want,
:55:45. > :55:50.and then confession, if you bare your soul and admit your sins to a
:55:51. > :55:55.priest, rabbi or Imam, are there any circumstances they would reveal what
:55:56. > :55:58.you discussed to the authorities? See you at ten o'clock on BBC One.
:55:59. > :56:00.That's nearly all we have time for this week.
:56:01. > :56:03.I'm having a week off next week, Eddie Mair will be here
:56:04. > :56:08.But before we go, those affected by the London attack came from right
:56:09. > :56:09.across the globe - from Romania to America,
:56:10. > :56:14.We leave you now with a South Korean virtuoso who's recognised as one
:56:15. > :56:16.of the greatest violinists in the world.
:56:17. > :56:19.Kyung Wha Chung will be performing at the Barbican in May.
:56:20. > :56:22.After an awful week at Westminster, she's here now to play us
:56:23. > :56:24.out with Bach's Andante from the A minor sonata.
:56:25. > :58:55.For all the latest political news and debate,
:58:56. > :58:57.tune in to the Sunday Politics at 11,
:58:58. > :58:59.where we'll be analysing the week's big stories
:59:00. > :59:04.and talking to the politicians and commentators who count.