:00:00. > :00:17.They say no-one writes letters these days yet maybe we should.
:00:18. > :00:20.This week a single letter from an English woman, delivered
:00:21. > :00:23.in Brussels to a Pole, began a chain of events,
:00:24. > :00:26.foresee and the precise outcome of which no-one knows.
:00:27. > :00:43.The first skirmish, the Rock of Gibraltar.
:00:44. > :00:45.I'll ask the Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, how far will he go
:00:46. > :00:57.That's a question of interest to the Chief Minister of Gibraltar,
:00:58. > :00:58.Fabian Picardo, who's flown in especially
:00:59. > :01:03.And returning to the sofa for the first time since the general
:01:04. > :01:06.election, former Labour leader Ed Miliband, who says it's time
:01:07. > :01:11.for the Brexit Remoaners to accept the result.
:01:12. > :01:21.Andrew isn't here this week to present the Andrew Marr Show.
:01:22. > :01:24.they could get to Marr, so here I am.
:01:25. > :01:27.And it's the Green spring conference so we'll talk to both
:01:28. > :01:29.leaders of the Green Party, Caroline Lucas and Jonathan Bartley.
:01:30. > :01:31.Reviewing the papers, Remain campaigner, international
:01:32. > :01:34.From the Times, Matt Chorley and former Conservative
:01:35. > :01:41.I've also been talking to Ian Hislop about going over the top
:01:42. > :01:46.in London's West End and why he's remaining a Remoaner!
:01:47. > :01:48.Plus, music from an eminent statesman of rock,
:01:49. > :02:07.Son with a happy smile. # My friend, with a happy smile.
:02:08. > :02:09.All that and more coming up soon, but first the news
:02:10. > :02:15.Six people have been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder
:02:16. > :02:17.after a young asylum seeker was attacked in Croydon
:02:18. > :02:21.The 17-year-old Kurdish-Iranian was approached when he was waiting
:02:22. > :02:23.at a bus stop on Friday night with two friends.
:02:24. > :02:25.He was chased, kicked and beaten unconscious and remains
:02:26. > :02:35.Police say they are treating the attack as a hate crime.
:02:36. > :02:37.More than 250 people are known to have died
:02:38. > :02:40.in mudslides in Colombia, with many more injured and missing.
:02:41. > :02:42.Heavy rains on Friday night caused rivers to burst their banks
:02:43. > :02:45.in the southern town of Mocoa, flooding homes with mud.
:02:46. > :02:51.A state of emergency has been called in the region.
:02:52. > :02:54.The organisers of the university boat races say they have no plans
:02:55. > :02:56.to postpone the event, despite the discovery of what's
:02:57. > :02:59.thought to be an unexploded Second World War bomb in the Thames.
:03:00. > :03:00.The device was spotted near Putney Bridge, close
:03:01. > :03:04.A final decision on whether the race goes ahead will
:03:05. > :03:09.The women's race is due to start at 4:35 this afternoon
:03:10. > :03:16.Tennis finally, and Great Britain's Johanna Konta is celebrating
:03:17. > :03:23.She won the Miami Open last night, beating former the world number one
:03:24. > :03:26.It's being described as the most significant victory
:03:27. > :03:34.The next news on BBC One is at 1 o'clock.
:03:35. > :03:45.And with me to review the papers are Miriam, Esther and Matt.
:03:46. > :03:51.The front pages, the Mail On Sunday, very excited about Google,
:03:52. > :03:58.particularly YouTube videos. The Sunday Mirror, we have got Tom
:03:59. > :04:02.Jones, talking about his bereavement. The Observer, worried
:04:03. > :04:08.about Brexit, this time how the NHS will cope in terms of staffing. The
:04:09. > :04:14.Sunday Express, Brexit as well, excited about the possible return of
:04:15. > :04:26.the old blue passport. And in the Sunday Times, revealed, Rich Piercy
:04:27. > :04:30.paid for doing nothing, apparently millionaire appears claiming up to
:04:31. > :04:32.?40,000 a year according to a Sunday Times investigation, for doing not
:04:33. > :04:35.very much at all. What have you got, Matt? We were worried about losing
:04:36. > :04:39.Scotland and Northern Ireland, and everyone seems to have forgotten
:04:40. > :04:44.about Gibraltar. It is a story and lots of the papers today. This is
:04:45. > :04:48.the Sunday Times version. They report that Fabian Picardo, the
:04:49. > :04:52.Chief Minister of Gibraltar, wanted Gibraltar to be specifically
:04:53. > :04:56.mentioned in Theresa May's letter this week. It was not. There is a
:04:57. > :05:02.suggestion that Spain has lobbied to get a veto on any future trade deal
:05:03. > :05:16.that is done between the EU and the UK.
:05:17. > :05:19.It seems like a big problem. Ministers quoted in the Sunday Times
:05:20. > :05:22.saying that Gibraltar might be pivotal mode, when it was not
:05:23. > :05:24.before. This is another part in the jigsaw puzzle the government is
:05:25. > :05:26.trying to negotiate. Boris Johnson says the UK remains rocklike in
:05:27. > :05:29.support for Gibraltar, which is a pun if nothing else. Many, you have
:05:30. > :05:32.some Spanish reaction? Yes, I think it is interesting to see how
:05:33. > :05:42.differently this is treated in Spanish newspapers and British
:05:43. > :05:45.newspapers. There is a good interview in the -- in this paper
:05:46. > :05:49.with the Spanish foreign affairs minister. He is being quite
:05:50. > :05:55.conciliatory, saying it is better not to talk about the tours. He says
:05:56. > :05:59.there is no intention to close the fence, which is one of the key
:06:00. > :06:04.issues in Gibraltar. A very different mood to what we have seen
:06:05. > :06:09.in the British media. The Spaniards care much about Gibraltar? Listen,
:06:10. > :06:15.there is obviously a territorial dispute. I personally think that we
:06:16. > :06:28.need to lower the temperature, both in the UK and in the EU,
:06:29. > :06:31.whether it is Gibraltar, security, whatever. The fact is that
:06:32. > :06:34.Spaniards, and it is always a fact that in any history, there are
:06:35. > :06:35.always two science. What the Spaniards are most worried about is
:06:36. > :06:49.in that territory, you have the fifth
:06:50. > :06:58.biggest presence of banks, that happens because of the tax relation.
:06:59. > :07:03.That is a concern to Spain. Esther, Norman Tebbit writing about this in
:07:04. > :07:07.the Telegraph? Yes, with his usual crisp clarity. He says that
:07:08. > :07:13.Gibraltar has much greater importance beyond the EU. He talks
:07:14. > :07:19.about a treaty 300 years ago, a very complex series of precision is
:07:20. > :07:24.governing the frontiers, not only in Europe, but also in America. -- a
:07:25. > :07:29.very complex series of provisions. This was to protect Europe from
:07:30. > :07:33.invasion by the Germans. He is saying, do not be using this as some
:07:34. > :07:39.sort of bartering tool. It should not be on the table are tall. It is
:07:40. > :07:44.nothing to do with it. You have to look at Nato and America's say on
:07:45. > :07:49.that. He says that Spain is playing with fire, and should we go into
:07:50. > :07:53.negotiations saying, let's help Catalan independence and take that
:07:54. > :07:58.as an important issue through to the United Nations, we can both play
:07:59. > :08:02.games. Let's not do that, it is not a colony, it is an overseas British
:08:03. > :08:07.territory. Let's leave it that way. It should not be on the table. We
:08:08. > :08:11.will speak about that to the Chief Minister and the Defence Secretary
:08:12. > :08:17.in a while. You have got something about Brexit? Yes, everything is a
:08:18. > :08:22.bargaining chip now. The flip side is the exciting new world of trade
:08:23. > :08:28.that will open up after Brexit. The sun on Sunday have mocked up Theresa
:08:29. > :08:33.May, Philip Hammond, it is a top gear a grand tour. It falls down
:08:34. > :08:37.because Liam Fox is done up as Jeremy Clarkson. Parliament is on
:08:38. > :08:48.recess this week, but the senior ministers are embarking on a trade
:08:49. > :08:50.blitz. Theresa May is going to the Gulf. Liam Fox is tooting lots of
:08:51. > :08:55.places. Manila, Dubai, trying to drum up interest. No Article 50 has
:08:56. > :08:58.been triggered, we can start having tentative conversations with
:08:59. > :09:02.countries. There has been lots of talk this week about securing the
:09:03. > :09:06.same benefits that we got from the EU before. This is where we have
:09:07. > :09:11.supposed to get extra benefits that we could not enjoy before. Ed
:09:12. > :09:17.Miliband will be on the programme later. He is writing about Brexit in
:09:18. > :09:28.the Observer. He is indeed. He is saying that we voted for Leave, and
:09:29. > :09:32.we have to get on with it. But there is a butt. He has written it along
:09:33. > :09:35.with Hilary Benn. Have we moved on from the fact that he understands
:09:36. > :09:41.that we voted to leave. What have you written a piece for? In a way,
:09:42. > :09:45.they both need credibility. Hilary Benn, after the committee report and
:09:46. > :09:50.everyone walking out, saying that a Remainer had delivered a report and
:09:51. > :09:53.no one had agreed on it, he needs credibility, so we need to write an
:09:54. > :10:00.article to see that we understand that the UK has voted to leave. At
:10:01. > :10:04.the same time, Ed Miliband, representing Doncaster very much,
:10:05. > :10:09.very much a Leave constituency, he has to get credibility with his own
:10:10. > :10:12.voters. I guess that was the main purpose of the article, even though
:10:13. > :10:18.it goes to list pretty much every reason we should not be leaving.
:10:19. > :10:23.What is important in this article is that the government's feet have got
:10:24. > :10:27.to be held to the fire, we have to get the best deal, so what are we
:10:28. > :10:31.looking for in the end? The UK has got to be a big international
:10:32. > :10:36.country, it has to look beyond Europe, but we have to remain good
:10:37. > :10:42.friends. We are still European, we will not be governed by the EU. Did
:10:43. > :10:48.you think that Ed Miliband was talking to you among the others? To
:10:49. > :10:53.me? He was talking to Remainers. What did you think of his message? I
:10:54. > :11:00.personally come to this from a legal point of view. Whatever this country
:11:01. > :11:05.decided, I was not as to say yes or no. I could not vote. My point of
:11:06. > :11:10.view is wherever you are, you need to do things with competence. It
:11:11. > :11:15.beggars belief that nine months from the referendum we are still having
:11:16. > :11:19.an issue with the town. That is the very first thing that this country
:11:20. > :11:25.and Europe needs to sort out. In the Observer you have a story about
:11:26. > :11:34.security? Exactly, precisely. This is George Robertson, the
:11:35. > :11:36.ex-secretary general of Nato having a go at the Article 50 letter,
:11:37. > :11:40.saying that the threat about security, that was mentioned 11
:11:41. > :11:45.times, together with trade, that was not an appropriate threat. He puts
:11:46. > :11:50.it in very strong terms. He says that the letter was clumsily put
:11:51. > :11:55.together. Beyond that, the general message of we cannot play with fire,
:11:56. > :12:00.there are some things which are truly important, and it cannot be
:12:01. > :12:05.that we make everything conditional, in these important areas, to trade.
:12:06. > :12:13.It is a good message. Let's focus on the important things. What have you
:12:14. > :12:19.got? I was quite struck by the Sunday Times' front page, about the
:12:20. > :12:24.peers doing nothing. One of the interesting things we will see as
:12:25. > :12:28.the Great Repeal Bill, the great copy and paste job happens, the role
:12:29. > :12:33.of the House of Lords, there will be much more scrutiny of that. The
:12:34. > :12:37.Labour message coming from Hilary Benn and Ed Miliband, not
:12:38. > :12:40.frontbenchers, the Labour Party in the House of Commons is not up to
:12:41. > :12:46.the job. If the House of Lords might muck about with it, as the
:12:47. > :12:50.Brexiteers might see it, there will be more scrutiny on how much they
:12:51. > :12:57.are being paid and things like that. I was trying to get away from Brexit
:12:58. > :13:00.stories. If we look at the story, we can take it beyond Brexit. Bring
:13:01. > :13:07.back Saturday jobs for teenagers. They say this could be what plug the
:13:08. > :13:11.gap for these jobs. Saturday jobs and work experience is key. Having
:13:12. > :13:17.been a former employment minister, we were having to grapple with the
:13:18. > :13:22.fact that over the last ten years, less than 50% of young people who
:13:23. > :13:28.would have had a strategy job, who would have had work experience, no
:13:29. > :13:32.longer had it. Things that you would call soft skills, being on time,
:13:33. > :13:35.being in a working environment, knowing how important it is to be
:13:36. > :13:41.there and be able to work, we no longer have these things because
:13:42. > :13:45.people are not doing Saturday jobs. Let's get beyond whether we are
:13:46. > :13:52.plotting a gap. It is vital for people to have this work experience
:13:53. > :13:54.before they start a job. The government has to introduce work
:13:55. > :14:00.schemes, and academies to plug this gap. Another related story, in the
:14:01. > :14:05.express, the possibility of passports that will match your suit.
:14:06. > :14:09.This is exciting news, if you hope that Brexit would bring about the
:14:10. > :14:13.return of the great British blue passport. The government is putting
:14:14. > :14:17.it out to tender, the contract to produce the new passports. There are
:14:18. > :14:23.so many perfectly good reasons why people might have voted to leave the
:14:24. > :14:27.European Union. If this is the reason you voted to leave, I am not
:14:28. > :14:32.sure you should be trusted on an aeroplane on your own, going
:14:33. > :14:36.anywhere anyway. On court, having a pink European passport has been a
:14:37. > :14:40.source of humiliation. Maybe he should get a blue cover and put it
:14:41. > :14:48.inside. I excited about getting a British passport, would you want on?
:14:49. > :14:51.Really interesting. Thanks very much, all of you, for your thoughts
:14:52. > :14:55.on the papers. There is a Brexit theme, there is a European seem to
:14:56. > :14:59.just about everything we are doing this morning. We will clock more now
:15:00. > :15:06.about Gibraltar. -- talk more. Gibraltar is the part
:15:07. > :15:10.of the Iberian Peninsula that's so British it makes Benidorm look
:15:11. > :15:13.like a matador eating tapas in The long standing Spanish
:15:14. > :15:16.desire to get its hands on Gibraltar appeared to get
:15:17. > :15:19.a boost this week when the European Council said that
:15:20. > :15:21.after Brexit, the UK would need to Fabian Picardo the Chief Minister
:15:22. > :15:36.of Gibraltar has flown The Sunday Times said you repeatedly
:15:37. > :15:43.lobbied ministers, did you lobby? We are working closely with the British
:15:44. > :15:47.government. We are fully involved in this process, and in doing so we
:15:48. > :15:52.have taken tactical and strategic decisions with the British
:15:53. > :15:59.government about what should go into the Article 50 letter but there is
:16:00. > :16:04.no point in having discussions and discussing them in public. The
:16:05. > :16:07.Article 50 letter does make reference to Gibraltar by
:16:08. > :16:11.cross-referencing to the White Paper, where the UK has set out more
:16:12. > :16:17.detail of what it will do. So you had all of these conversations with
:16:18. > :16:22.the British government, who are full today of lots of talk about the rock
:16:23. > :16:28.and implacable support, and yet you couldn't get Gibraltar mentioned
:16:29. > :16:34.explicitly in any of the 2200 words that Theresa May wrote in her
:16:35. > :16:37.letter. You maybe need to be better at lobbying. You are making an
:16:38. > :16:40.assumption that's the decision we made with the British government and
:16:41. > :16:44.they didn't follow through, and I don't think that's fair, in the same
:16:45. > :16:50.way I don't think it is fair to say the position in Spain is reflected
:16:51. > :16:57.on page 19 of the newspaper. Yesterday the newspaper had a table
:16:58. > :17:03.of EU and the UK, with Gibraltar in the middle as they carved it up for
:17:04. > :17:08.themselves. I am not disappointed Gibraltar wasn't mentioned?
:17:09. > :17:14.Gibraltar is mentioned by reference to the White Paper as are many other
:17:15. > :17:18.things. Are you thrilled about that? I am not thrilled we are in the
:17:19. > :17:22.situation we are, but we have decided to support the Prime
:17:23. > :17:27.Minister in this process of making Brexit a success for Britain and
:17:28. > :17:31.Gibraltar. When we get the deal in Brexit, it must be a deal that
:17:32. > :17:34.applies of course to the UK in respect of future trade and if there
:17:35. > :17:40.is such a deal it is only fair that it should also apply to Gibraltar.
:17:41. > :17:44.In terms of the negotiations, you presumably want Gibraltar off the
:17:45. > :17:52.table? You don't want Gibraltar to be part of Brexit talks, do you? It
:17:53. > :17:54.is not on the table as a chip, and anyone who thinks we are is not
:17:55. > :18:00.realising what this negotiation is about. Anyone who thinks you are
:18:01. > :18:04.might have read the European Council's draft. That simply says
:18:05. > :18:10.Gibraltar is off the table in terms of discussions of the new deal... It
:18:11. > :18:17.is just a draft at the moment, let's see what comes back. Even if it
:18:18. > :18:20.comes back as it is, it is clear we are entering a negotiation, and what
:18:21. > :18:24.we are seeing, which has not been seen on the British side by the way,
:18:25. > :18:29.are the parameters that will limit the operation of negotiation on the
:18:30. > :18:33.part of the council. That's how they are going into the negotiation. This
:18:34. > :18:37.is their best case, let's see what comes out of that. I'm sure the UK
:18:38. > :18:43.will be batting for Gibraltar and I'm sure the people of Gibraltar
:18:44. > :18:48.know that we have an important neighbour with whom we have to be in
:18:49. > :18:54.contact. You have to get out of the draft, don't you? It is not about
:18:55. > :18:59.getting out of the draft. Hang on, this is somebody else's document. If
:19:00. > :19:05.this were the British document for the negotiations I would be very
:19:06. > :19:10.upset and be sure it came out. At least the EU mentioned Gibraltar.
:19:11. > :19:14.This is what the other side are saying, well I'm surprised this is
:19:15. > :19:18.all they have put in, they haven't put anything in about the
:19:19. > :19:21.sovereignty of Gibraltar, which is what Spain wants, so this has
:19:22. > :19:24.limited the application of the principle of Gibraltar in the
:19:25. > :19:29.context of what the EU will come to the table with simply by Spain
:19:30. > :19:34.saying Gibraltar must form part of the exit negotiation but cannot form
:19:35. > :19:38.part of the future deal. We know how passionate you and almost everyone
:19:39. > :19:43.else in Gibraltar is about remaining British. But can you tell me what
:19:44. > :19:46.would really be so wrong in what I suppose would be the worst case
:19:47. > :19:51.scenario for you, what would be so wrong in terms of your day to day
:19:52. > :19:57.life if sovereignty with Spain was shared? It would strip us of who we
:19:58. > :20:01.are, it is that simple. Gibraltar would not be British if sovereignty
:20:02. > :20:12.was shared with Spain, and for what price would you sell Cornwall to the
:20:13. > :20:15.French? What would your life be like if Spain shared sovereignty? It
:20:16. > :20:22.would be awful because our home would be handed over... Shared. To a
:20:23. > :20:27.party that has no claim to title. You cannot tell me apart from the
:20:28. > :20:33.feeling in your guts, but in your day-to-day lives you would carry on
:20:34. > :20:37.as before. But that would not be the lives we are living today because we
:20:38. > :20:41.are living in effect what is partly somebody else's land and that would
:20:42. > :20:45.be massively unfair to the people of Gibraltar. The UK ghosts of the war
:20:46. > :20:48.over the principle of consent around the world and the people of
:20:49. > :20:53.Gibraltar have expressed their views as to what they think the
:20:54. > :20:57.sovereignty of Gibraltar should be. Are you confident that this
:20:58. > :21:00.Government, who did not mention you, after intensive Brexit negotiations,
:21:01. > :21:05.perhaps on the brink of a brilliant deal about the future of the UK,
:21:06. > :21:10.wouldn't if it had to throw Gibraltar under the bus for that
:21:11. > :21:13.deal? I am confident that we will work closely with the British
:21:14. > :21:17.government, make tactical and strategic decisions and when the
:21:18. > :21:25.time comes we will make the right decisions with the Prime Minister,
:21:26. > :21:30.making negotiations that will be in the interest of the Gibraltan
:21:31. > :21:32.people. Thank you for flying all this way.
:21:33. > :21:34.I understand that Fabian is flying straight back to Gibraltar
:21:35. > :21:36.after the show this morning, luckily Tomasz Schafernaker
:21:37. > :21:38.has a detailed weather forecast for the Rock,
:21:39. > :21:49.It is always a bit windy around the rock, but here's hoping for a smooth
:21:50. > :21:54.flight towards the Mediterranean, looking pretty good. In the UK, the
:21:55. > :21:59.weather is looking pretty quiet, certainly a lot more quiet than it
:22:00. > :22:04.was yesterday. Just a few clouds, yesterday we had downpours and hail,
:22:05. > :22:10.but nothing like that today. It is a beautiful afternoon on the way, 17
:22:11. > :22:14.degrees in London, fresher in the north and the outside chance of a
:22:15. > :22:18.shower across eastern areas of the UK. Tonight a clear evening on the
:22:19. > :22:25.way. Later in the night there might be some fog forming over eastern and
:22:26. > :22:29.southern areas, chilly in some spots. We have got some rain on the
:22:30. > :22:33.way for tomorrow, it will be reaching Northern Ireland, western
:22:34. > :22:37.parts of Scotland by say midday and later in the afternoon flirting with
:22:38. > :22:44.the Irish Sea coasts down into Wales and the tip of Cornwall, but for the
:22:45. > :22:48.bulk of England the weather will be fine reaching 18 degrees. A quick
:22:49. > :22:53.look at the weather for the week ahead, not much rain on the way, and
:22:54. > :23:00.temperatures would be about where we expect them at this time of year.
:23:01. > :23:01.The Green party spring conference will come
:23:02. > :23:05.The party's joint leaders Caroline Lucas and Jonathan Bartley are here.
:23:06. > :23:12.What would you do about Gibraltar? The first thing is we would say it
:23:13. > :23:16.shouldn't be used as a bargaining chip in the Brexit negotiations and
:23:17. > :23:19.frankly I think it just demonstrates the reckless incompetence of this
:23:20. > :23:22.Government that it didn't see this issue coming and that's why for
:23:23. > :23:32.example I didn't vote to trigger Article 50. We felt it should not be
:23:33. > :23:36.triggered at the time it was. One of your MEPs represents Gibraltar, I
:23:37. > :23:40.wonder what your policy is on sovereignty for example. It is up to
:23:41. > :23:45.the people of Gibraltar to decide that entirely, it is not up to us to
:23:46. > :23:50.say but it certainly raises some questions that you had 96% of them
:23:51. > :23:55.who voted to remain inside the EU. It is hard to see how that will
:23:56. > :24:00.work, just as it is hard to see what will happen in Northern Ireland with
:24:01. > :24:06.a hard border there as well. You are good Europeans, you see no merit in
:24:07. > :24:10.Spain's claim at all? No, it is up to the people of Gibraltar to make
:24:11. > :24:16.their wishes clear, they have done so in the past and they are clearly
:24:17. > :24:20.doing so again. Why would you? I want to ask you about one of the
:24:21. > :24:25.policies you have been floating at your conference, a three-day
:24:26. > :24:30.weekend. How will that work? We wanted to fly that this up because
:24:31. > :24:36.we think we need bold new ideas for the country. We are facing the 21st
:24:37. > :24:39.century, a very uncertain world with big pressures from global
:24:40. > :24:44.corporatisation. When I was a kid we were told we would have this great
:24:45. > :24:50.technological advance but we are just seeing growing inequality and
:24:51. > :24:53.we feel people are being short-changed. We are seeing a
:24:54. > :24:57.right-wing coup over Brexit which is taking us into an even more
:24:58. > :24:59.deregulated situation. Yes, right-wing, Ukip have said to the
:25:00. > :25:07.Government jump and they said how high. Did you pay attention to the
:25:08. > :25:13.referendum result? I did, but we know that a lot of the regulations
:25:14. > :25:19.will pass over into the repeal Bill and that's not the kind of country
:25:20. > :25:25.UK wanted. Tommy how the three day weekend fits into the productivity
:25:26. > :25:29.problem. -- tell me how. When people are exhausted their productivity
:25:30. > :25:34.goes down and we are now the sixth largest economy in the world, people
:25:35. > :25:39.are working ever more hours getting ever more stressed, ever more ill
:25:40. > :25:43.health, mental health problems as well. We want to take a step back
:25:44. > :25:47.and say what is the purpose of the economy, do we really want a future
:25:48. > :25:53.where people are trying to work even more harder so that we bring work
:25:54. > :25:58.home in the evenings and weekends, you are working now. I want to ask
:25:59. > :26:01.you about where your work is going because there has been an ebb and
:26:02. > :26:07.flow in Green support over the years, but now in the spectrum of
:26:08. > :26:11.British politics if people want something up the left they have the
:26:12. > :26:14.Labour Party, if they are frantically pro-EU they have the
:26:15. > :26:22.Liberal Democrats, what is your repeal? We are the antidote to Ukip,
:26:23. > :26:27.we want to wipe the smile off Nigel Farage does face. We are seeing how
:26:28. > :26:31.Green parties across Europe are challenging the far right, and
:26:32. > :26:35.Labour are not doing that, they have capitulated to Ukip triggering
:26:36. > :26:40.Article 50. There needs to be a strong, robust voice on the left,
:26:41. > :26:45.but it's also about putting forward radical, bold ideas. You have Labour
:26:46. > :26:50.opposing cuts and we are doing that but we are going one stage further.
:26:51. > :26:54.Who would have thought 20 years ago we would have hundreds of thousands
:26:55. > :26:58.of people routinely using food banks? Who would have thought we
:26:59. > :27:04.would have 5 million children facing poverty according to Save The
:27:05. > :27:09.Children? But no one is getting angry about this and we are. It is
:27:10. > :27:13.less than a fortnight since the Westminster Bridge attack in London,
:27:14. > :27:16.police are investigating what the attacker may have believed, which
:27:17. > :27:20.organisations he may have thought were doing a good job. The Green
:27:21. > :27:24.Party website says your policy is still that it should not be a crime
:27:25. > :27:31.to simply belong to an organisation or have sympathy with its aims. What
:27:32. > :27:33.we are clear about is that terrorism is an atrocity, and a suggestion
:27:34. > :27:40.that that policy that was written long time ago for talking about
:27:41. > :27:45.issues around the ANC... It is still your policy, on your website. Policy
:27:46. > :27:53.is agreed by our conference and stays until it is modified. Is this
:27:54. > :27:56.a bit embarrassing? The wording isn't helpful in that it allows
:27:57. > :28:04.people like yourself to interpret that we ... What about freedom of
:28:05. > :28:10.thought in this country, don't you want to stand up for that? That is
:28:11. > :28:14.the distinction that piece of policy is attempting to make, in other
:28:15. > :28:18.words freedom of thought is entirely permissible and it would be very
:28:19. > :28:22.scary if it were not. There's a distinction between that and the
:28:23. > :28:29.atrocities we see at and quite rightly anyone going after that that
:28:30. > :28:35.is without question. But you don't manage to square those two difficult
:28:36. > :28:41.problems. When this policy was done many years ago, it was about the
:28:42. > :28:46.context... It whatever years ago, decades ago around the time of the
:28:47. > :28:50.ANC. When you are thinking about groups that can be demonised by a
:28:51. > :28:54.very oppressive state, it is important you balance that freedom
:28:55. > :28:58.of expression. We will unequivocally condemn those involved in hate crime
:28:59. > :29:04.and hate action, that is never up for debate but it is important you
:29:05. > :29:07.balance it, absolutely. Good to see you both, thank you.
:29:08. > :29:12.In 1916, two British officers created a newspaper for the troops
:29:13. > :29:15.in the town of Ypres, mispronounced Wipers by the Tommies.
:29:16. > :29:18.Far from being a sombre journal about life in the trenches,
:29:19. > :29:19.they produced something subversive and funny.
:29:20. > :29:22.The Wipers Times rolled off the press until the end of the war.
:29:23. > :29:25.Ian Hislop and Nick Newman of Private Eye have created a play
:29:26. > :29:27.about it and Ian came in to the studio
:29:28. > :29:32.to tell me about it and its London theatre opening.
:29:33. > :29:34.So you do think you could be more offensive?
:29:35. > :29:37.Oh, yes sir, I think we could be much more offensive.
:29:38. > :29:49.# The long lost years have been well worth.
:29:50. > :29:56.# If once again, we've peace on Earth.
:29:57. > :29:59.They decide, we'll print a satirical newspaper right here, and it's 1916.
:30:00. > :30:04.There are other things for officers to be doing that year.
:30:05. > :30:08.But they go for it and they're incredibly lucky because
:30:09. > :30:10.the sergeant in their platoon was on Fleet Street,
:30:11. > :30:16.They produced 20 issues for the rest of the war of this brilliantly
:30:17. > :30:23.And we have turned their story into a drama.
:30:24. > :30:26.And the great thing about theatre as opposed to television is it
:30:27. > :30:30.goes on and it's live, so you can hear the laughter.
:30:31. > :30:34.And these jokes, they're about 100 years old, a lot of them.
:30:35. > :30:37.You're not averse to a 100-year- old joke in Private Eye?
:30:38. > :30:40.No, there's nothing like an old joke!
:30:41. > :30:43.We have used a huge amount of their stuff, but you can hear
:30:44. > :30:46.rows of people now laughing at Pearson and Fred Roberts'
:30:47. > :30:49.When I first came across it, I thought, well, my initial
:30:50. > :30:55.How were you this funny in those circumstances?
:30:56. > :31:04.It is an incontestable fact that alcohol is
:31:05. > :31:18.# And if you ask us back to Flanders.
:31:19. > :31:30.I was going to ask for your favourite joke but obviously people
:31:31. > :31:32.should buy a ticket and come along and hear.
:31:33. > :31:40.They say, "Are you up at the front and you just cannot get away?
:31:41. > :31:43.They say, "How do I recognise these taxis?"
:31:44. > :31:46.And he says, "They've got a Red Cross printed on the side."
:31:47. > :31:49.That is the level of black humour, which is fabulous.
:31:50. > :31:54.Private Eye has been going through a very purple
:31:55. > :31:56.patch for a long time, and you mentioned how ripe
:31:57. > :32:00.What is the state of satire at the moment, do you think?
:32:01. > :32:09.You have to be honest, it's partly what's going on.
:32:10. > :32:11.The Thatcher-Reagan era was not full of brilliant satire
:32:12. > :32:17.It was because when things are polarised, when personalities
:32:18. > :32:27.are very strong, satire gets sort of more popular.
:32:28. > :32:30.There are periods, I mean Private Eye in the early Blair
:32:31. > :32:32.years, it was entirely people saying, "Can you leave Blair alone!"
:32:33. > :32:34."What, you want the Tories back, do you?"
:32:35. > :32:38.There was no appetite for it and we were ruining the party
:32:39. > :32:42.by suggesting Mr Blair might have some faults, and there were some
:32:43. > :32:46.So it does go like that, but at the moment I think we're in...
:32:47. > :32:50.Look at American television and those other sort of outlets,
:32:51. > :32:58.When the Daily Mail ran its photograph of Nicola Sturgeon
:32:59. > :33:01.and Theresa May and their legs last week, Sarah Vine appeared
:33:02. > :33:03.on the World At One to talk about that and said,
:33:04. > :33:05."Well, look, it's the sort of picture you would
:33:06. > :33:10.Yes, but we would have put a joke on it.
:33:11. > :33:13.What did you think of the fact it was there in that form?
:33:14. > :33:16.Maybe it didn't need a caption in your view?
:33:17. > :33:19.Oddly enough, Private Eye had put a picture of Nicola Sturgeon
:33:20. > :33:22.and Theresa May on the previous cover, but stupid me,
:33:23. > :33:25.I had put a joke about the union on instead of focusing
:33:26. > :33:35.And on the subject of the EU, are you a Remoaner?
:33:36. > :33:39.Do you think you should go on moaning about it
:33:40. > :33:50.Yes, loser, failing, sad, sad, hashtag "go home".
:33:51. > :33:53.I know the arguments, but I'm afraid, no, I'm going on.
:33:54. > :33:59.Because I keep trying to explain to people who are very,
:34:00. > :34:04.very upset about this, democracy works by people continuing
:34:05. > :34:13.to argue about the issues involved, and when someone wins an election,
:34:14. > :34:15.the opposition does not say, that's it, thank you very
:34:16. > :34:17.much, we're going home for the next five years.
:34:18. > :34:20.You continue with the argument because it is in everyone's interest
:34:21. > :34:22.for you to present those points of view.
:34:23. > :34:26.And The Wipers Times, by Ian Hislop and Nick Newman,
:34:27. > :34:32.is at the Arts Theatre in London's West End until mid-May.
:34:33. > :34:35.Today's younger generation may know Ed Miliband as one of Twitter's
:34:36. > :34:40.What older viewers will remember is that he was once leader
:34:41. > :34:42.of the Labour Party, and had things turned out
:34:43. > :34:45.differently, he would have been Prime Minister and Brexit
:34:46. > :34:49.He writes in the Observer today that it's time to accept Brexit,
:34:50. > :34:54.but fight the version of it he says the right wants.
:34:55. > :35:02.Good morning. Nice to be with you. Ian Hislop, persuade him. I was the
:35:03. > :35:06.guy that did not want the referendum. If there had been a
:35:07. > :35:11.Labour government, if I had been Prime Minister, we would not have
:35:12. > :35:16.had it. I fought Hatton Silver Remain, but I said, we will accept
:35:17. > :35:21.the result. That is why I am accepting the results. I feel like
:35:22. > :35:23.that is what we have got to do, and for a principled reason, we had the
:35:24. > :35:46.referendum and there was a result, but I feel it for a
:35:47. > :35:49.pragmatic reason as well. There are massive decisions to be made in the
:35:50. > :35:51.next two years and beyond about the future shape of this country,
:35:52. > :35:54.decisions of the gravity that we have not made for 40 years. We
:35:55. > :35:57.cannot leave it to the right and centre right, who were on the Brexit
:35:58. > :36:00.side of the argument to make those decisions. In a way, even more so,
:36:01. > :36:02.because they want to use the pretext of the referendum that were not the
:36:03. > :36:04.mandate of the referendum, cut taxes, deregulate,/ the rights of
:36:05. > :36:09.workers. All of those horrors, as you see them, is that not a pretty
:36:10. > :36:13.convincing argument for going back to the country wants a deal is done,
:36:14. > :36:19.or once no deal is done, and say, do you want to remain or leave? No,
:36:20. > :36:25.because that assumes that the outcome of Brexit are the things I
:36:26. > :36:29.said, that we did not want to see. I think progressive politics is harder
:36:30. > :36:35.with Brexit, that is what I say with Hilary Benn in my article this
:36:36. > :37:02.morning, but it is not impossible. The 1945 Labour government came
:37:03. > :37:06.to power in the most dreadful circumstances, but they did not say
:37:07. > :37:08.it is impossible to change things. We need to limit the damage and
:37:09. > :37:11.avoid hard Brexit, but we have got to do more than that. Take workers'
:37:12. > :37:14.rights. I hear people saying, we cannot let the rights of workers be
:37:15. > :37:16.reduced. That is right, but this was not just a referendum about our
:37:17. > :37:18.relationship with Europe, it was about the state of Britain. Let's
:37:19. > :37:21.use the legislation to make the country more progressive. It is
:37:22. > :37:23.never impossible to do that. What do you think of Labour's policy? I
:37:24. > :37:26.think the tests we have set right. Could we have done with that three
:37:27. > :37:28.months ago? Second-guessing leaders are spokespeople, I had too much of
:37:29. > :37:31.that in my time. Second-guessing would be trying to predict the
:37:32. > :37:35.future. What do you think of what they did? Keir Starmer and Jeremy
:37:36. > :37:40.Corbyn have been handling a difficult situation as best they
:37:41. > :37:43.can, frankly. It is easier for other parties. If you are the Greens or
:37:44. > :37:59.the Liberal Democrats, you're fishing in 48% pool. If your Ukip,
:38:00. > :38:02.you are fishing in the 52% pool. Labour is doing something much
:38:03. > :38:05.harder, trying to speak for the whole country. Ignoring the verdict,
:38:06. > :38:15.going into this thing, let's overturn it, that looks like we are
:38:16. > :38:19.ignoring the 52%. There is more that unites Remainers and levers than
:38:20. > :38:22.what might appear, because they share common concerns about the way
:38:23. > :38:26.the country is run. You mentioned at the start of the interview that had
:38:27. > :38:31.things gone differently, you would have been Prime Minister and there
:38:32. > :38:36.would have been no Brexit. In the hours and days after defeat, how
:38:37. > :38:41.much did you think about that? About the prospect of the referendum, you
:38:42. > :38:47.mean? About what you were unsuccessful in achieving and the
:38:48. > :38:50.ramifications of that. You, I presume, took some personal
:38:51. > :38:54.responsibility? I take total responsibility. How did you deal
:38:55. > :39:02.with that as a person? It is tough. How did you deal with that? Did you
:39:03. > :39:08.cry? I do not recall. It was very upsetting. Very upsetting days. Were
:39:09. > :39:12.you depressed? I would not describe it that way. It is hard, very hard.
:39:13. > :39:22.Hard as I watch what is happening to the country, and... How did you deal
:39:23. > :39:27.with it? Did you seek solace in friends, did you talk? My family,
:39:28. > :39:37.obviously my family, my kids know who I am now. Now? I am kidding.
:39:38. > :39:43.There is something about the Leader of the Opposition, it is hard to
:39:44. > :39:48.have a normal life. One of the biggest pieces of solace for me is
:39:49. > :39:53.the British people, actually. The people you meet on the street.
:39:54. > :39:58.Sometimes I ended up comforting them. When people say to you, when
:39:59. > :40:04.that exit poll came out, you say, that was terrible. You say, I was
:40:05. > :40:08.there as well. People saying, look, I supported you and I liked some of
:40:09. > :40:11.the things you were saying. Or I did not support you but I think some of
:40:12. > :40:16.what you might have been seeing was right. The other thing is, one
:40:17. > :40:20.should not be too introspective about this. I am not generally an
:40:21. > :40:24.introspective person. I just thought I would ask you because you were
:40:25. > :40:29.here. I knew straightaway I did not want to leave British politics. I
:40:30. > :40:33.meant what I said when I resigned. There are other ways of being
:40:34. > :40:38.leader, of taking forward the argument about the country. On the
:40:39. > :40:43.various accounts of polling day that have been written by various people,
:40:44. > :40:47.they all seem to agree that while you were not cocky, you had a
:40:48. > :40:51.realistic expectation on the day that people were voting that you
:40:52. > :40:55.would be Prime Minister? I was hopeful that we would win. That exit
:40:56. > :41:00.poll must have been especially crushing? It was a terrible shock.
:41:01. > :41:06.It was a terrible shock to lots of people. I believe the opinion polls.
:41:07. > :41:10.I will not believe again. Do you believe the 25% for Labour opinion
:41:11. > :41:23.polls? Let's see what happens. That is where you are? It is a tough
:41:24. > :41:26.situation do you believe it? Do you think that is where labour -- that
:41:27. > :41:29.is where labour is? I do not know. It is a toss situation. It is hard
:41:30. > :41:32.because of Brexit. We are trying to speak to the whole country. I
:41:33. > :41:37.genuinely mean is, when I was leader, I did not appreciate people
:41:38. > :41:41.commenting on me. I did not think it did much good. I have been very
:41:42. > :41:47.spilling about commenting on Jeremy Corbyn. Let's talk about the things
:41:48. > :41:51.you did as leader, changing the leadership rules. People think that
:41:52. > :41:55.Jeremy Corbyn has made Labour or a party of the left, but others say
:41:56. > :41:59.that it is the rule change that you were instrumental in bringing in
:42:00. > :42:03.that has put Labour where it is? It is a mistake to think about it like
:42:04. > :42:12.that. Jeremy Corbyn was the winner in every section of the membership.
:42:13. > :42:15.He had to pass the threshold. The idea of the membership collecting
:42:16. > :42:21.the party, the membership selecting the party, it was widely endorsed
:42:22. > :42:27.across the Labour Party. I think it misses something, why has Jeremy
:42:28. > :42:31.Corbyn on two leadership elections? Because of a sense among party
:42:32. > :42:35.members, but not just among party members, that they felt there needed
:42:36. > :42:39.to be a more radical programme, even more radical than I was offering. In
:42:40. > :42:45.a way, I have the humility to accept that. I do not think it was sort of
:42:46. > :42:51.an accident. I think it went deeper than that. From all wings of the
:42:52. > :42:55.party, you have to learn the lessons from that. You said before that
:42:56. > :43:01.Jeremy Corbyn's position was untenable, and yet here he is. I
:43:02. > :43:05.supported Owen Smith against him in the second leadership election and
:43:06. > :43:13.Jeremy on. You have to accept the result, like what I said about
:43:14. > :43:18.Brexit. I accept the results. This is a collective effort across the
:43:19. > :43:22.party, particularly for ex-leaders. Talking of humility, do you think it
:43:23. > :43:26.is possible that Jeremy Corbyn supporters are right and that Labour
:43:27. > :43:31.has not really tried a proper left-wing agenda for many years, it
:43:32. > :43:36.has not won an election on your sort of platform since 2005? Instead of
:43:37. > :43:41.people criticising Jeremy Corbyn, should they get fully behind him? By
:43:42. > :43:46.and large, I think that is what people are done since he won his
:43:47. > :43:52.second mandate. People recognise it is important for him to be able to
:43:53. > :43:58.lead. I do think that in his leadership campaign he spoke to a
:43:59. > :44:02.yearning that people had, not for utopia, but for radicalism. I do not
:44:03. > :44:06.quite agree with your characterisation of my programme
:44:07. > :44:10.because I think I offered some of that radicalism, some of which we
:44:11. > :44:14.are seeing being adopted not just by the Labour Party but the
:44:15. > :44:17.Conservative Party. There are always lessons to learn, and definitely
:44:18. > :44:19.from his election. Ed Miliband, good to see you.
:44:20. > :44:21.Coming up later this morning, Andrew Neil will be getting
:44:22. > :44:24.the thoughts of former Conservative leader Lord Howard on the
:44:25. > :44:27.Also, ahead of the local elections in May, he'll speak
:44:28. > :44:30.to Labour's Jon Ashworth and Alistair Carmichael
:44:31. > :44:34.from the Liberal Democrats about how they think their parties will fare.
:44:35. > :44:41.That's the Sunday Politics at 11, here on BBC One.
:44:42. > :44:44.We've heard already this morning from the Chief Minister of Gibraltar
:44:45. > :44:46.talking about the EU's desire to link Brexit with Spanish
:44:47. > :44:53.Let's ask the Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, about that.
:44:54. > :45:02.Good morning. Good morning. We have established the Chief Minister was
:45:03. > :45:03.lobbying hard on this. He did not get Gibraltar mention some Aaron
:45:04. > :45:14.Ramsey May's letter. Why not? The letter was about the formal
:45:15. > :45:17.notification we are living in the process of negotiation, how we want
:45:18. > :45:22.the talks to be handled but the letter referred to the Brexit White
:45:23. > :45:26.Paper and Gibraltar is firmly in that white paper. You will find
:45:27. > :45:29.eight separate references to Gibraltar in the White Paper and the
:45:30. > :45:35.different issues we have got to deal with are set out in that white
:45:36. > :45:38.Paper, whether it is the position of the City of London or fisheries
:45:39. > :45:47.policy, Gibraltar and everything else. But it is odd, in this 2200
:45:48. > :45:49.words Theresa May managed to the consternation of some people link
:45:50. > :45:54.trade and security, but wasn't able to mention Gibraltar by name. First
:45:55. > :45:58.of all it is important to link trade and security because what we are
:45:59. > :46:05.looking for is a deep and special partnership that covers both
:46:06. > :46:11.economic and security cooperation. You are proud of that link?
:46:12. > :46:15.Absolutely, it is important we go on committed to the security, this is
:46:16. > :46:20.the weekend we send 800 troops to Estonia as part of our Nato
:46:21. > :46:24.commitment, we are sending RAF typhoons to Romania, stepping up our
:46:25. > :46:27.commitment to the security of the continents because it remains our
:46:28. > :46:31.continent and this is a very uncertain time for Europe. It is
:46:32. > :46:39.right we should be playing our part in that so these two things go
:46:40. > :46:45.together. I'm happy for people to conclude that if there is no deal,
:46:46. > :46:49.the EU and Europe would be less secure? We would all be worse off if
:46:50. > :46:55.there was no deal, we are expecting to have a deal but we obviously
:46:56. > :47:01.cooperate with Europe on security, not just through Nato, our police
:47:02. > :47:08.forces do, our security agencies do, or judicial systems, some of that is
:47:09. > :47:12.inside the European treaties and the bits that are inside we need to make
:47:13. > :47:17.sure that cooperation continues because Europe faces threats not
:47:18. > :47:22.only from Russian aggression but terrorism as well. Before the
:47:23. > :47:26.referendum, use of the vote to leave would payday for Putin, no according
:47:27. > :47:33.to the Sunday Telegraph Cabinet ministers have secretly agreed to
:47:34. > :47:36.exploit EU fears over Putin, how much is that true? The letter refers
:47:37. > :47:40.to our ambition to have a completely new partnership with Europe on the
:47:41. > :47:48.economic side but also on the security side. But the Telegraph
:47:49. > :47:53.quotes you directly, the EU needs or capabilities and the UK have high
:47:54. > :47:59.cards to play on security. Are you save rattling about Putin? This
:48:00. > :48:05.isn't a bargaining process, we have the biggest defence budget in
:48:06. > :48:08.Europe... You are talking about cards. I'm not going to talk about
:48:09. > :48:14.what happened in what meeting but it is a fact we have the biggest
:48:15. > :48:17.defence budget in Europe, we are leading player inside Nato, that's
:48:18. > :48:21.why we are deploying troops this week to help protect the eastern
:48:22. > :48:26.flank of Nato, and the other European countries of course will
:48:27. > :48:30.want us to continue to do that. I want to talk about the size of the
:48:31. > :48:43.defence budget in the second but before we leave Gibraltar, are you
:48:44. > :48:49.going to take it off the table? Is interesting, we are very clear that
:48:50. > :48:52.there cannot be a change in the status and sovereignty of Gibraltar
:48:53. > :48:57.unless the people of Gibraltar agree to it and they clearly don't. So
:48:58. > :49:00.that is not going to happen, Gibraltar will be involved in these
:49:01. > :49:05.negotiations, again the Chief Minister made that clear, he will be
:49:06. > :49:10.involved throughout, and there will in the end of course be an agreement
:49:11. > :49:14.that fully respects the position of Gibraltar. The Conservative
:49:15. > :49:18.manifesto on Gibraltar mentions it in the same sentence as the
:49:19. > :49:23.Falklands Islands, how far is the UK prepared to go to look after
:49:24. > :49:27.Gibraltar's interests? We are going to look after Gibraltar, it will be
:49:28. > :49:33.protected all the way because the sovereignty of Gibraltar cannot be
:49:34. > :49:36.changed without the agreement of the people of Gibraltar and they have
:49:37. > :49:41.made it clear they don't want to live under Spanish rule. It is clear
:49:42. > :49:47.that Spain is not saying the whole thing is subject to the transfer of
:49:48. > :49:51.sovereignty. It looks like the EU is open in principle to some kind of
:49:52. > :49:54.transitional deal in the talks coming up, would it be acceptable to
:49:55. > :50:00.you to go into the next general election with free movement of
:50:01. > :50:07.people still happening and the UK still being subject to the European
:50:08. > :50:10.Court of Justice? No, we have made it clear where are leaving the
:50:11. > :50:15.European Union, the single market, the customs union, and we will no
:50:16. > :50:18.longer be under the ambit of the European Court of Justice but it's
:50:19. > :50:22.also clear we have to avoid a cliff edge. We need to give business and
:50:23. > :50:28.the various sectors of our economy the certainty they need that there
:50:29. > :50:31.won't suddenly be a huge difference between the day after we leave and
:50:32. > :50:35.the day before. The Prime Minister set it out in her Lancaster house
:50:36. > :50:41.speech that we will do everything we can to avoid the cliff edge, but
:50:42. > :50:46.there will be inevitably be for some sectors implementation periods. So
:50:47. > :50:50.we could have the free movement of some people while you go into the
:50:51. > :50:55.next general election and fight that? You are speculating about the
:50:56. > :51:03.course of the negotiations. Rule it out. We are not expecting to take
:51:04. > :51:09.advantage of the four great freedoms, including the freedom of
:51:10. > :51:14.movement of people. You cannot give me any timetable. We cannot give a
:51:15. > :51:18.timetable on negotiations that haven't started yet but our object
:51:19. > :51:23.is to regain control over migration, to make sure we can manage the
:51:24. > :51:30.numbers of people coming here and the numbers of people going to
:51:31. > :51:33.Europe. The MoD is facing a ?10 billion funding shortfall over the
:51:34. > :51:40.next decade according to analysis by the Times, what is your estimate of
:51:41. > :51:49.the funding shortfall? There isn't a funding shortfall. We are committed
:51:50. > :51:52.to efficiency savings, like any other government department but the
:51:53. > :51:56.big difference is we keep the efficiency savings, since over a
:51:57. > :52:02.billion a year we are finding each year, all of that we keep and we put
:52:03. > :52:07.back into investing in the new equipment that our Armed Forces
:52:08. > :52:12.need. Would it be efficient to cut the number of Royal Marines? They
:52:13. > :52:16.are part of the Royal Navy, which is growing in size. It is not only
:52:17. > :52:20.getting this year the aircraft carriers and the new submarines...
:52:21. > :52:26.Let's stick with the question because it has been floated, the
:52:27. > :52:29.idea we might lose some Royal Marines, and Lord Ashdown says, a
:52:30. > :52:34.reduction in numbers is bound to have an effect on the quality and
:52:35. > :52:39.number of people. The Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy, we are
:52:40. > :52:43.increasing the strength of the Royal Navy by around 400. The balance
:52:44. > :52:48.inside the Royal Naval strength between the number of sailors and
:52:49. > :52:51.the number of marines, that is a military judgment, a matter for the
:52:52. > :52:57.first Sea Lord and the military chiefs to advise me on and that's a
:52:58. > :53:01.balance they keep under review. It is odd because you have people like
:53:02. > :53:06.Lord Richards saying that the Government is often hiding behind a
:53:07. > :53:11.veil on this, the growing mismatch between ambition and capability must
:53:12. > :53:16.be addressed. I don't agree with that, we are expanding our defence
:53:17. > :53:22.budget. Last week it was 35 billion, this week it goes up to 36 billion,
:53:23. > :53:27.the new financial year, it goes up by a billion every new parliament.
:53:28. > :53:32.We meet the Nato commitment but we do need to pay for new frigates and
:53:33. > :53:36.new aircraft and new armoured vehicles and part of that is coming
:53:37. > :53:41.from the efficiency savings. If there are air feels we no longer
:53:42. > :53:45.use, if there are barracks which are redundant it makes sense to dispose
:53:46. > :53:49.of them and put savings back into the front line. David Cameron sort
:53:50. > :53:54.of returned to the fray this week, was good to see him back? It's
:53:55. > :54:01.always good to hear from previous prime ministers, we should do. Some
:54:02. > :54:06.people think he should be Nato Secretary General, I read reports
:54:07. > :54:11.you had been lobbying for that. Do you think he would make a good one?
:54:12. > :54:14.And sure he would, I haven't seen what his future career plans are but
:54:15. > :54:19.we have a Secretary General at the moment who is not due to hand over
:54:20. > :54:25.for some years yet. What do you think we are missing when he's not
:54:26. > :54:28.on the political stage? He led this country through a very difficult
:54:29. > :54:33.financial crisis into a coalition we haven't seen since the Second World
:54:34. > :54:41.War and lead us successfully through that. He had six years in Downing
:54:42. > :54:44.Street... But what are we missing now he's not there? He is still a
:54:45. > :54:52.relatively young man, I have regular discussions with him, he still takes
:54:53. > :54:58.a strong interest. If Prince Charles phoned you and ask you to stop a
:54:59. > :55:03.war, would you? We always listen to the Royal family, I have regular
:55:04. > :55:08.meetings with his Royal Highness. He asks to see me every so often and
:55:09. > :55:14.takes a strong interest in our Armed Forces. Is that a delight when the
:55:15. > :55:21.call comes in? Absolutely, he has served himself in the Navy and holes
:55:22. > :55:26.rank in the RAF. He is a great champion of our Armed Forces. And
:55:27. > :55:31.the report he wanted to stop the War in Afghanistan for a while, did that
:55:32. > :55:36.ring true to you? That something you would have to ask the Labour
:55:37. > :55:38.government about, that is some years ago now thank you.
:55:39. > :55:42.Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
:55:43. > :55:50.In Brighton at ten o'clock we will be debating Brexit, does Mrs May
:55:51. > :55:54.have a mandate for it? And has the time come to decriminalise sex work?
:55:55. > :55:57.See you at ten o'clock on BBC One. Andrew will be back next
:55:58. > :56:01.week when his guests For now, we leave you with
:56:02. > :56:06.a musician who's been at the front line of American music for decades,
:56:07. > :56:08.from punk to rock to alt-country. Alejandro Escovedo has collaborated
:56:09. > :56:13.with Ryan Adams, REM, Steve Earle, and this man, the Boss
:56:14. > :56:29.himself, Bruce Springsteen. Alejandro
:56:30. > :56:34.Escovedo is touring the UK His new album, Burn Something
:56:35. > :56:39.Beautiful, is according to Rolling Stone, "a shadowy mixture
:56:40. > :56:42.of punk, roots and rock". # A fortune I would pay
:56:43. > :56:55.if I though it would heal # A fortune I would pay
:56:56. > :56:58.if I thought it would heal # A pair of broken hearts
:56:59. > :57:03.on the top of the hill # Well like a hurricane
:57:04. > :57:08.or a runaway train # Take our chances
:57:09. > :57:13.on the numbers we play # I miss my friends
:57:14. > :57:28.with the heartbeat smile # On the east side of the bay
:57:29. > :57:35.we watch the parade # I miss my friends
:57:36. > :58:08.with the heartbeat smile # We laugh and we run
:58:09. > :58:11.we staggered and fell # Greeted the sun
:58:12. > :58:16.with another tall tale # San Francisco,
:58:17. > :58:22.New York, Valparaiso # I wish I'd been
:58:23. > :58:28.there to carry you home # I miss my friends
:58:29. > :58:43.with the heartbeat smile # On the east side of the bay
:58:44. > :59:03.we watch the parade # I miss my friends
:59:04. > :59:18.Marine Le Pen has her eyes on the French presidency.
:59:19. > :59:22.As she tries to distance herself from her party's controversial past,
:59:23. > :59:27.we follow the money and ask, "Who's funding her campaign?"