:00:00. > :00:09.The first foreign policy crisis of the Trump era is with us.
:00:10. > :00:12.The attack on Syria after the use of chemical weapons has deeply
:00:13. > :00:17.Justified and proportionate response to a war crime,
:00:18. > :00:19.or a spasm of anger - simply kicking the anthill?
:00:20. > :00:23.Meanwhile, our Foreign Secretary has abruptly cancelled
:00:24. > :00:47.Speaking for the Government, the International Development
:00:48. > :00:53.Secretary Priti Patel joins me live from Liverpool.
:00:54. > :00:56.The Syria strikes have opened up yet another division in Labour's ranks.
:00:57. > :01:01.The Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry is here.
:01:02. > :01:03.And joining me from Aberdeenshire to talk independence,
:01:04. > :01:14.Brexit and Scotland's future, the SNP's Alex Salmond.
:01:15. > :01:20.I've also been talking to an acting national treasure, Jim Broadbent,
:01:21. > :01:26.about his new movie and why it was good to be in awe
:01:27. > :01:38.Perfect casting, she is such a star. I was slightly nervous of Charlotte!
:01:39. > :01:47.Plus, we'll have some rousing regimental music.
:01:48. > :01:56.Here on the sofa to review today's news, Sir Peter Westmacott,
:01:57. > :01:59.a former British ambassador to the US.
:02:00. > :02:00.The journalist and broadcaster Julia Hartley-Brewer.
:02:01. > :02:13.Church services are being held in Sweden today to remember the four
:02:14. > :02:15.people who died and those who were injured in the lorry
:02:16. > :02:19.Police are questioning a number of people in relation
:02:20. > :02:23.From Stockholm, Maddy Savage reports.
:02:24. > :02:27.Thousands of people spent Saturday paying their respects and,
:02:28. > :02:30.after police reopened the shopping street where the attack happened,
:02:31. > :02:37.many were quick to find new ways to make their mark.
:02:38. > :02:40.In the old town's mediaeval cathedral, there was a special
:02:41. > :02:42.service to remember the victims, attended by Sweden's Prime
:02:43. > :02:49.Earlier, police revealed that when they towed away the delivery
:02:50. > :02:53.truck used in the violence they had made a disturbing discovery.
:02:54. > :02:57.We have found something in the truck, in the driver's seat.
:02:58. > :03:02.A technical device which should not be there.
:03:03. > :03:06.I cannot, at this stage, say that this is a bomb.
:03:07. > :03:09.The man they think was behind the wheel has connections here,
:03:10. > :03:12.a diverse working-class suburb in the north of the city.
:03:13. > :03:16.He hasn't been named, but he's 39 and originally from Uzbekistan.
:03:17. > :03:18.Several others have been arrested too, following raids
:03:19. > :03:24.Security remains tight, but locals are expected to gather
:03:25. > :03:31.They've been told to leave politics at home and come together
:03:32. > :03:39.The UK Government is leading growing criticism of Russia
:03:40. > :03:43.over its continued support for the Syrian president,
:03:44. > :03:46.Sir Michael Fallon, the Defence Secretary,
:03:47. > :03:48.has claimed the Kremlin is responsible for the 80 civilian
:03:49. > :03:52.deaths in a chemical weapons attack in Syria on Tuesday.
:03:53. > :03:55.Last night, Russian television showed jets taking off from an air
:03:56. > :03:59.base hit with US cruise missiles after the attack.
:04:00. > :04:03.The US military has ordered a Navy strike group to move
:04:04. > :04:05.towards the Korean peninsula, amid growing concerns
:04:06. > :04:09.about North Korea's missile and nuclear weapons programme.
:04:10. > :04:12.US Pacific Command described the deployment as a "prudent measure
:04:13. > :04:15.to maintain readiness in the region".
:04:16. > :04:18.President Trump has said the United States is prepared to act
:04:19. > :04:23.alone to deal with the nuclear threat from North Korea.
:04:24. > :04:25.The body of the police officer Keith Palmer,
:04:26. > :04:29.who was stabbed to death last month, will be taken to the Palace
:04:30. > :04:31.of Westminster before his funeral in south London tomorrow.
:04:32. > :04:36.The Queen has given her consent for his coffin to lie in rest
:04:37. > :04:38.at the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft, ahead of his funeral
:04:39. > :04:45.And finally, cabin crew on a Turkish Airlines flight
:04:46. > :04:47.celebrated the arrival of an extra passenger at 42,000
:04:48. > :04:51.feet, when a woman gave birth to a baby girl.
:04:52. > :04:54.Cabin crew and passengers helped to deliver the child
:04:55. > :04:57.after the mother went into labour shortly after take-off on the flight
:04:58. > :05:09.Both mother and baby are said to be doing well.
:05:10. > :05:26.Sunday Times, Russia accused in complicity in Syria war crime. Also
:05:27. > :05:30.note the verb in the under sentence, Boris Johnson Paul Dadge to call off
:05:31. > :05:36.Moscow mission. Different views of Boris Johnson in the papers. Ken
:05:37. > :05:40.McCluskey of Unite accusing Labour MPs of a dirty tricks campaign
:05:41. > :05:45.against him in the union vote there, we will talk about that as well.
:05:46. > :05:53.Different views of Boris Johnson, the Sunday Telegraph, sounding very
:05:54. > :05:58.statesman-like, but on the front of the Mail on Sunday, Boris the poodle
:05:59. > :06:03.pulls out of Russia summit. Why, at the last minute, has he not gone to
:06:04. > :06:09.Moscow as he was going to do? And further stories that I don't
:06:10. > :06:13.understand, something about Mel B's husband! I'm not going to talk about
:06:14. > :06:17.that! Sir Peter Westmacott, this weekend
:06:18. > :06:21.will weekend, let's pick up on that Boris Storey, a big spread inside,
:06:22. > :06:27.Moscow attacking him, mocking him for not coming and all that. Yes,
:06:28. > :06:31.lots of stuff about that story, the Russians saying he is indulging in
:06:32. > :06:35.theatrics for lack of any argument, not good in terms of the optics
:06:36. > :06:40.coming out of Moscow. But there is a broader issue here, what is the role
:06:41. > :06:44.of the British Government in this business? There was Number Ten on
:06:45. > :06:48.Wednesday morning saying nobody is talking about military action and by
:06:49. > :06:52.Thursday evening, the next day, the president is talking to people and
:06:53. > :06:57.there were senior Americans conferring with coalition partners
:06:58. > :07:02.about what would happen, but they didn't ask us to get involved like
:07:03. > :07:06.four years ago and here is the question of what is Boris' role,
:07:07. > :07:11.should he go or not go? What he told to not go or was it felt it was more
:07:12. > :07:15.intelligent to leave it to Rex Tillerson, who is going to Moscow
:07:16. > :07:19.this week as well? One of Boris Johnson's people is quoted as saying
:07:20. > :07:23.he knows the politics behind this look terrible this morning but that
:07:24. > :07:28.doesn't matter in terms of getting a smooth message from the west to
:07:29. > :07:33.Moscow? Yes, there may be the best of making -- yes, there may be
:07:34. > :07:37.making the best of a bad job in that line. It is Michael Fallon who has
:07:38. > :07:41.been making the Government's case on this, much of which is about foreign
:07:42. > :07:47.policy. Do we think the Foreign Secretary is being gagged at the
:07:48. > :07:51.moment? It does look like it, Boris Johnson, just lots of footage of him
:07:52. > :07:55.walking up and down as speculation of whether he has been told to step
:07:56. > :07:59.out. There are voices from the Government in the newspapers,
:08:00. > :08:05.Michael Gove has a piece in The Sun... Not in the Government the
:08:06. > :08:11.last time I looked! He is on his way back, if he gets his way! But what
:08:12. > :08:17.we do not have is what Boris thinks. We are going to go to the iPad. An
:08:18. > :08:21.interesting article in the New York Times, which is, what is this legal
:08:22. > :08:26.or not? A long debate on whether it is legal to strike Syria under
:08:27. > :08:29.international law and under US law, a debate about whether it was
:08:30. > :08:34.constitutional or not. Because the American excuse, if they need an
:08:35. > :08:38.excuse for something like this, if it is related to terrorism which
:08:39. > :08:42.made it eight self defence attack, which is quite intricate as an
:08:43. > :08:45.explanation. And Charlie goes through the arguments that this is
:08:46. > :08:49.not consistent with self defence, on the other hand plenty of precedent
:08:50. > :08:53.for American presidents taking military action where they have not
:08:54. > :08:57.been able to argue self defence and plenty of President also with not
:08:58. > :09:05.consulting Congress, which is the other big legal and procedural issue
:09:06. > :09:07.which Trump had to address before this decision. All of this is a
:09:08. > :09:11.nonsense, Western democracies deciding whether it is legal. I'm
:09:12. > :09:15.sorry, I do not decide whether something is right thing to do on
:09:16. > :09:20.what two totalitarian dictatorships think. There is also this position
:09:21. > :09:25.where it is apparently OK to destroy people's lives with barrel bombs but
:09:26. > :09:29.if you use gas it crosses a line? The legal difference is clear but
:09:30. > :09:34.the moral difference, if it was my child that had been killed, if I was
:09:35. > :09:38.a Syrian mother I would not be ready to make that distinction about thing
:09:39. > :09:44.is, carry on killing Syrian children every day, targeting them, and
:09:45. > :09:49.suddenly we are outraged. The other question is whether Assad carried
:09:50. > :09:54.this out... That is a good question, do we know this? In the times they
:09:55. > :09:58.go through the incapacity of Russia to lie, once upon a time the
:09:59. > :10:02.Russians were fantastic liars and they go through in great detail
:10:03. > :10:06.about how their lives are easy to decipher, so it is a persuasive
:10:07. > :10:10.piece that we do know. And looking ahead the real question is whether
:10:11. > :10:15.this is a dry run for North Korea, and much more dangerous situation in
:10:16. > :10:19.global terms. Trump made it clear in an number of tweets that North Korea
:10:20. > :10:23.was his priority, not Syria committee said that long before he
:10:24. > :10:27.was president, he has made North Korea a big issue and this is the
:10:28. > :10:33.worry for the world, forget barrel bombs or chemical weapons, two huge
:10:34. > :10:39.ego maniacs trying to deal with each other, Kim Jong-il and Donald Trump,
:10:40. > :10:46.I would not want to be caught in the battle. Is it going to be something
:10:47. > :10:51.decided strategically long-term, military precision, or is it just
:10:52. > :10:56.going to be done on a whim by two egomaniacs? I genuinely think we are
:10:57. > :11:01.in a dangerous position. There is a North Korea element of this but I'm
:11:02. > :11:05.not sure it was in Donald Trump's mind when he changed his mind so to
:11:06. > :11:09.me. This was about not being Obama, about being a decisive president, a
:11:10. > :11:22.bit unpredictable, about showing, I am in charge now and I can smack the
:11:23. > :11:25.bad guys. There is a separate message to North Korea which is, as
:11:26. > :11:28.Obama said to him during the tradition -- transition, the biggest
:11:29. > :11:32.security threat to America, but I'm not sure that was in his mind. He
:11:33. > :11:37.saw the pictures and decided, I have got to do something. And we are
:11:38. > :11:45.seeing a big reshaping in Donald Trump's team as well. That is right,
:11:46. > :11:49.the Mail speculate on whether Ivanka was important but the Telegraph goes
:11:50. > :11:53.hardest on the fighting in the White House and suggests some top advisers
:11:54. > :11:57.could be sacked over this. Steve Bannon was taken off the National
:11:58. > :12:01.Security Council last week, he thinks none of this fits with
:12:02. > :12:08.America first, his slogan, and Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law,
:12:09. > :12:13.is apparently becoming much more of a potent force. And this attack has
:12:14. > :12:17.infuriated a lot of the hard-core Trump supporters who thought they
:12:18. > :12:21.would not get involved in these wars again and are angry this morning.
:12:22. > :12:27.Let's move on, you have a story from the Express, Julia? Yes, it has also
:12:28. > :12:35.upset Nigel Farage as well, this story is about him offering to woo
:12:36. > :12:42.Marine le Pen for Britain. She has had no contact, no one in the
:12:43. > :12:49.Government has had contact with Marine le Pen, we should not be
:12:50. > :12:54.making predictions, it is a long way to that election, maybe 23rd I think
:12:55. > :12:58.is the final date, but he says he wants to form the role of the
:12:59. > :13:02.go-between, this was suggested after Donald Trump's election as well. Our
:13:03. > :13:06.own diplomats are desperately trying to put together the Brexit
:13:07. > :13:09.negotiating plans, being photographed in trains and
:13:10. > :13:14.elsewhere, documents being revealed, and the Mail On Sunday has a big
:13:15. > :13:21.splash about that. Yes, UK trade secrets spotted on the 7.22, and the
:13:22. > :13:26.story of somebody carrying a paper on the train. You have to remember
:13:27. > :13:30.everybody has got an iPhone these days. And if you have your papers in
:13:31. > :13:34.a folder, you should have that folder closed! It is striking how
:13:35. > :13:39.the Mail On Sunday is very different to the Daily Mail, the way in which
:13:40. > :13:42.the battle between the editors is there on Brexit, the Daily Mail
:13:43. > :13:47.adamant pro-Brexit, everything European is dreadful, Mail On Sunday
:13:48. > :13:50.making trouble for those people trying to drive Brexit forward. Here
:13:51. > :13:55.we have evidence that it is difficult in the heart of Government
:13:56. > :13:59.to get the job done but also, as you say, foreign office has had great
:14:00. > :14:06.chunks of people taken out to make a success of it and there is an issue
:14:07. > :14:10.within the Government, how can we make this work? The allegation is
:14:11. > :14:14.things like environmental protection and saving endangered species will
:14:15. > :14:21.be put to one side while we do trade negotiations. Quite rightly. And
:14:22. > :14:25.they call that for Tim Farron, leader of the Lib Dems, quoted in
:14:26. > :14:30.that story, there is the beginning of a sign of Lib Dem revival at the
:14:31. > :14:34.moment. There is, there have been quite a few by-elections this week,
:14:35. > :14:40.the Lib Dems surging back. There is a space for opposition and the
:14:41. > :14:44.Liberal Democrats are, to a small extent, starting to fill that. I
:14:45. > :14:49.want to draw attention, it is hard to get attention for anything other
:14:50. > :14:52.than the things we are talking about now, perfectly understandable in
:14:53. > :14:56.domestic terms, leaving the European Union dominate the agenda, but the
:14:57. > :15:00.Observer have done a good in focus where they say there are lots of
:15:01. > :15:04.things going on under the radar which we forget about, social care,
:15:05. > :15:08.schools and housing, and they have gone through in detail what is going
:15:09. > :15:12.on and the question is whether Whitehall has the capacity to deal
:15:13. > :15:20.with these things. To be fair they did not until 'Grexit' either. You
:15:21. > :15:25.have a school story? There is a book by the former Harrow headmaster, how
:15:26. > :15:29.parents and schools can drive standards for children and he is
:15:30. > :15:33.talking about a wonderful school, King Solomon Academy in London,
:15:34. > :15:40.where a huge number of kids have free school meals yet they achieve,
:15:41. > :15:46.60% getting five GCSEs, 90%, and one of the things they do is deal with
:15:47. > :15:50.the parents, if there is an issue with the work they confiscate Xbox
:15:51. > :15:51.it and mobile phones from home, with the parents' agreement, parents and
:15:52. > :15:58.teachers working together. We have used to look at each other
:15:59. > :16:03.rather than doing this the whole time. But it echoes the idea that
:16:04. > :16:06.when parents and teachers were together, it delivers. We can't
:16:07. > :16:09.finish without doing a Labour Party story, I mentioned the Len McCluskey
:16:10. > :16:13.story at the beginning about him being angry and worried about Labour
:16:14. > :16:17.people plotting against him but I have to say in a shameful way, this
:16:18. > :16:22.is slightly overshadowed by two weird stories, of all the kind of
:16:23. > :16:27.organisations to be picketed by the Labour left, the new statesman has
:16:28. > :16:32.got into trouble... It is remarkable, the Labour left are
:16:33. > :16:37.annoyed at the anti-Corbin coverage in the new statesman, traditionally
:16:38. > :16:40.a left of centre magazine. The editor of the Spectator has
:16:41. > :16:44.amusingly been complaining that no one is picketing him. He's invited
:16:45. > :16:50.them to go and join in. It is a funny old world politically. If the
:16:51. > :16:57.Labour Party does not want new statesman readers to vote for it, it
:16:58. > :17:02.is going to struggle. Meanwhile, smirks all round, Ed Miliband, this
:17:03. > :17:06.is the Channel 4 programme, The Last Leg, who persuaded the former Labour
:17:07. > :17:07.Party leader to make a whatever of himself. Before we do any more,
:17:08. > :17:09.let's have a listen. # Take me on
:17:10. > :17:40.Take on me. Now, Mrs Maher said, "Who did they
:17:41. > :17:44.get to play Ed Miliband?" But it's really and somehow it does not quite
:17:45. > :17:49.do the job that Strictly did for Ed Balls. Ed Balls had left Parliament
:17:50. > :17:53.and it was part of this post politics Korea and Ed Miliband is
:17:54. > :17:55.still in Parliament and this week of all weeks, with Syria and in the
:17:56. > :18:00.interview on the programme, he was talking about the Parliamentary vote
:18:01. > :18:10.to block action, so there's quite uneasy bedfellows, to talk about
:18:11. > :18:14.that and then be dressed as A Ha. My guess is it was done after the
:18:15. > :18:17.chemical attack, and if that's the reason, my apologies, but that is
:18:18. > :18:22.the reason he did not become Prime Minister. Even though it was funny.
:18:23. > :18:25.He's not holding a banana. In a parallel universe, if you had been
:18:26. > :18:30.advertising Ed Miliband, the Prime Minister and he said, "I've got this
:18:31. > :18:36.great idea", what would you have said? Diplomatically! First, check
:18:37. > :18:46.if you can sing, how credible is it? No, I think while you are still in
:18:47. > :18:50.Parliament, I think this is a dangerous thing to do, it does not
:18:51. > :18:52.add to your gravitas at a time when you are trying to win an election.
:18:53. > :18:54.Even though on a grim warning, it has made us laugh. Now the weather.
:18:55. > :18:55.It's glorious. It's fantastic.
:18:56. > :18:58.At least it is down here in the soft, pampered south.
:18:59. > :19:01.We're told that today will be the hottest day of the year so far.
:19:02. > :19:03.But it's also April, so you know in your heart
:19:04. > :19:09.Here's Ben Rich in the weather studio.
:19:10. > :19:15.Got it in one, it is April and it won't last, but for some of us, it
:19:16. > :19:19.will be a day of unbroken sunshine and some real warmth. Lovely start
:19:20. > :19:23.from the Weather Watchers in Cumbria but I suspect things will cloud over
:19:24. > :19:25.in Cumbria as the day goes on. The cloud already arriving across
:19:26. > :19:31.northern parts of Scotland and this is the change. A weather front
:19:32. > :19:33.clouding things over across western Scotland, Northern Ireland, perhaps
:19:34. > :19:36.western fringes of Wales and the south-west as we go on through the
:19:37. > :19:39.day and this weather front will bring some outbreaks of rain as
:19:40. > :19:44.well. If you are out and about at 4pm, through Northern Ireland, West
:19:45. > :19:48.and northern Scotland, pretty disappointing afternoon, fairly cool
:19:49. > :19:52.with outbreaks of rain. Aberdeen and Edinburgh should stay dry with
:19:53. > :19:55.cloud, clouding over across north-west England, too. As the
:19:56. > :19:59.cloud rolls in across the coast of Wales and the south-west, the
:20:00. > :20:03.temperature will take a tumble. 11 degrees. But come inland,
:20:04. > :20:07.particularly in central and eastern areas, temperatures as high as 25 or
:20:08. > :20:11.26 degrees. This evening and tonight, this is the weather front
:20:12. > :20:18.with most rain fizzling away but behind it, as it sinks southwards,
:20:19. > :20:21.we all get into some cool air and what that means for tomorrow is not
:20:22. > :20:24.a bad day, with some sunshine and a few showers but forget about 25. 15
:20:25. > :20:28.is the best I can do. But then again, it is only April.
:20:29. > :20:30.One party that's united in its opposition to
:20:31. > :20:32.the American attack in Syria is the Scottish National Party.
:20:33. > :20:35.They've also been boosted this week by a formal announcement from Spain
:20:36. > :20:37.that that country wouldn't block an independent Scotland
:20:38. > :20:41.If only the Scottish economy was in a slightly stronger position,
:20:42. > :20:43.Alex Salmond, the party's former leader, would be
:20:44. > :20:55.Welcome from Aberdeen. It looks beautiful behind you. Can I start by
:20:56. > :20:59.asking about this week and's news, however? If the regime is
:21:00. > :21:04.responsible for a chemical attack on its own people, innocent people in
:21:05. > :21:14.Syria, surely some kind of military response is proportionate by the
:21:15. > :21:17.West? What should happen, if the Syrian regime or whoever is
:21:18. > :21:20.responsible for using chemical weapons against a civilian
:21:21. > :21:26.population, or barrel bombs, or bombing hospitals, there should be a
:21:27. > :21:28.proper UN investigation, and those responsible should be arraigned
:21:29. > :21:32.before the International criminal Court. That is the way you impose
:21:33. > :21:35.the international rule of law. That is what should happen. There's a
:21:36. > :21:41.number of obstacles to that happening, not least of which is the
:21:42. > :21:44.USA, unlike 130 other countries, does not yet recognise the
:21:45. > :21:48.International Criminal Court but that should not stop the initiative
:21:49. > :21:51.being made to have a proper examination, and establish who is
:21:52. > :21:54.responsible for an atrocity, and holding them properly to account in
:21:55. > :21:58.terms of international law. Military action without that basis of law,
:21:59. > :22:02.without that framework, is no substitute for doing what is right
:22:03. > :22:05.and proper to impose the rule of law and to stop the things happening
:22:06. > :22:10.again. What do you make of the abrupt announcement that the Foreign
:22:11. > :22:13.Secretary is no longer going to Moscow to talk directly with the
:22:14. > :22:21.Russians after this? He's going to let the Americans go there first
:22:22. > :22:26.instead. Well, Boris Johnson just looks daft. I mean, what is the
:22:27. > :22:29.argument for not going ahead with the visit? Rex Tillerson is going on
:22:30. > :22:36.Wednesday so it can't be that we have moved to a Cold War position of
:22:37. > :22:39.no talking whatsoever. The idea that the Foreign Secretary can't be
:22:40. > :22:43.trusted because he might pursue his own line or have an independent
:22:44. > :22:50.thought or cross over what the Americans are going to say, just
:22:51. > :22:53.makes him look like some kind of mini-me to the USA and that is not a
:22:54. > :22:57.position in the Foreign Secretary wants to be in. If the mail on
:22:58. > :23:00.Sunday repeat the Russian line that the British Foreign Secretary is a
:23:01. > :23:04.puppet, then you know you are really in trouble and I would have thought
:23:05. > :23:09.Boris Johnson looks in the political trouble this morning. Let me turn to
:23:10. > :23:13.the independence question. Theresa May has said very clearly this is
:23:14. > :23:15.not the time for a second independence referendum. Nicola
:23:16. > :23:21.Sturgeon has said she is prepared to be flexible about the date. Does
:23:22. > :23:24.flexibility, so far as the SNP is concerned, mean that you can accept
:23:25. > :23:32.a second referendum after Brexit is completed, as David Mundell says?
:23:33. > :23:36.No, the right time for the second referendum is when the Brexit deal,
:23:37. > :23:39.the British Brexit deal is known. Therefore, that can be compared
:23:40. > :23:45.against the prospect of an independent Scotland in Europe. At
:23:46. > :23:50.the top of your interview, you rightly talked about the Spanish
:23:51. > :23:54.Bryn Secretary, making it absolutely clear there was no Spanish veto
:23:55. > :24:00.against Scottish membership of the European Union. You could also have
:24:01. > :24:05.added Angela Merkel's key ally in the European Parliament, who said
:24:06. > :24:08.that would be a speedy process, this week, or the queue of European MPs
:24:09. > :24:13.in the debate this week from across the continent who made clear their
:24:14. > :24:16.friendship towards Scotland. Then you can see, Andrew Cotter how the
:24:17. > :24:20.tectonic plates are shifting in Europe and Scotland, compared with
:24:21. > :24:23.three years ago. I was going to ask you, this is quite a change in tone
:24:24. > :24:27.from the Spanish government in particular. How important is that in
:24:28. > :24:33.the case for Scottish independence? Is this a really crucial moment for
:24:34. > :24:38.you? Well, it is a significant moment. You will remember, three
:24:39. > :24:47.years ago, I was being interviewed by you, -- dry Manuele Boaro so was
:24:48. > :24:50.being interviewed by you, comparing scholar to Kosovo and I don't think
:24:51. > :24:52.Jean-Claude Juncker is going to be doing at any time soon. I think
:24:53. > :24:58.there's been a sea change in attitudes towards Scotland. The
:24:59. > :25:02.British press always exaggerate the opposition to Scotland. That was
:25:03. > :25:05.part of the campaign. But there can be no mistaking now that the
:25:06. > :25:08.friendship towards Scotland, and the key thing of course, as Scotland has
:25:09. > :25:12.gained influence, then the UK Government has lost influence. If
:25:13. > :25:17.you are a member of the club, then you have always got cards to play,
:25:18. > :25:20.and telling other people you don't want to destabilise things, if you
:25:21. > :25:23.are withdrawing, as the UK is, from the European Union, you have very
:25:24. > :25:26.little credit and very little credibility across the entire
:25:27. > :25:37.continent of Europe. So the timing of so-called IndyRef2 is reported.
:25:38. > :25:40.What about holding an advisory referendum if Theresa May won't give
:25:41. > :25:45.you one before the end of the process, which could be several
:25:46. > :25:48.years away? I leave these matters to the person responsible, the First
:25:49. > :25:53.Minister Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon. Can I just say that the Theresa May
:25:54. > :25:57.line, this is not the time, or now is not the time, is not going to
:25:58. > :26:00.stand. Back in the day, I remember David Cameron telling me there
:26:01. > :26:03.wasn't going to be a Scottish referendum but that did not last
:26:04. > :26:07.against the democratic wishes of the Scottish people and the Scottish
:26:08. > :26:11.parliament. And neither will be Theresa May line. Why do you say
:26:12. > :26:17.that? Over the next few months, the line will crumble. What because no
:26:18. > :26:20.British Prime Minister can stand against the democratic wishes... No
:26:21. > :26:23.British Prime Minister... Even Margaret Thatcher, for goodness
:26:24. > :26:29.sake, was prepared to acknowledge the right of the Scottish people to
:26:30. > :26:31.exercise self-determination. Self-determination delayed, like
:26:32. > :26:35.justice, is self-determination denied and it won't stand
:26:36. > :26:39.politically. My prediction is that the Theresa May position will
:26:40. > :26:42.crumble over time. But in this context, according to the polls, at
:26:43. > :26:45.least half of Scots don't want a second independence referendum for
:26:46. > :26:48.the time being and therefore, Theresa May can play alongside Ruth
:26:49. > :26:55.Davidson, this is not the time and as it were, get away with it for
:26:56. > :27:02.quite a long time to come. Well, the only poll which has asked -- after
:27:03. > :27:05.the Scottish parliament supported it, was a YouGov Paul Wood said the
:27:06. > :27:08.UK Government should accede, and that majority will grow, Andrew,
:27:09. > :27:13.because of the Democratic imperative behind it. Take my word for it,
:27:14. > :27:17.there will be a referendum in Scotland. The timing, of course,
:27:18. > :27:20.will have to be negotiated but the timescale that it should be is when
:27:21. > :27:24.people of Scotland can make a judgment between the Brexit Britain
:27:25. > :27:28.future, and the future of an independent Scotland within the
:27:29. > :27:31.European context. Let me ask you about the Scottish economy because
:27:32. > :27:36.we have slightly disheartening news last week, in the last quarter, the
:27:37. > :27:41.Scottish economy actually shrank by 0.2%, and the UK economy grew over
:27:42. > :27:44.all. Why do you think the Scottish economy and the British economy
:27:45. > :27:52.generally are so out of guilt at the moment? -- out of kilter. We have
:27:53. > :27:55.lost 100,000 jobs in the onshore oil industry in Scotland over the last
:27:56. > :28:00.couple of years, not the least of which in my constituency here in the
:28:01. > :28:03.north-east of Scotland. If that was equivalent to the UK, you would be
:28:04. > :28:08.talking about a million jobs lost in your biggest industry. Obviously,
:28:09. > :28:13.that has a severe economic effect. I was fortunate as First Minister, per
:28:14. > :28:19.capita, GDP in Scotland exceeded the UK right through the years from
:28:20. > :28:21.2007, and incidentally, in the run-up to the first independence
:28:22. > :28:26.referendum but if you have a big blow in your major industry, that
:28:27. > :28:29.has a significant economic effect. Incidentally, I would not get too
:28:30. > :28:32.complacent about the UK economy, if you look at the production figures
:28:33. > :28:37.this week and the balance of trade figures. I think the post Brexit
:28:38. > :28:42.boom is running out of steam. Can I turn to one other area which is,
:28:43. > :28:46.again going back to the timing of a potential referendum because you
:28:47. > :28:48.could hold your own referendum in Scotland, and I'm slightly surprised
:28:49. > :28:51.that you are so reluctant to talk about it because that is in the
:28:52. > :28:59.hands of the Scottish Parliament and the SNP. Well, it is in the hands,
:29:00. > :29:03.the tactics of these matters are in the hands of the First Minister, who
:29:04. > :29:06.is charged with taking forward and that is a matter for Nicola Sturgeon
:29:07. > :29:10.but she has said she will outline to Parliament after Easter recess
:29:11. > :29:14.what's the strategy is going to be to make sure that the will of the
:29:15. > :29:17.Scottish people and the parliament, the democratic will, the right of
:29:18. > :29:21.Scotland to self-determination, Andrew, is respected. Theresa May
:29:22. > :29:24.was challenged about that by Angus Robertson in the House of Commons,
:29:25. > :29:31.and her answer was that her own constituency of Maidenhead had also
:29:32. > :29:35.voted to remain in Europe, as if somehow, the ancient nation of
:29:36. > :29:37.Scotland is, the ball with an English constituency. That is
:29:38. > :29:41.exactly why, incidentally, her attitude will not stand. No
:29:42. > :29:46.self-respecting Scot is going to stand for an attitude which a
:29:47. > :29:49.British Prime Minister evokes comparison between the Scottish
:29:50. > :29:52.nation and the constituency of England, however beautiful
:29:53. > :29:56.Maidenhead undoubtedly is. We could be talking about this for a lot
:29:57. > :30:00.longer, but we have ran out of time. We will talk again, I'm sure, soon,
:30:01. > :30:05.but for now, thank you Brett much. You haven't mentioned Scotland
:30:06. > :30:10.winning the Grand National! I'm so sorry! I wanted to congratulate
:30:11. > :30:14.Lucinda Russell and 13. Anything is possible if Scotland can win the
:30:15. > :30:15.Grand National! Before you explode with enthusiasm, thank you, Alex
:30:16. > :30:20.Salmond. The Sense Of An Ending by Julian
:30:21. > :30:23.Barnes was a slim but powerful It's now been made into
:30:24. > :30:26.a very British movie A gold-standard cast includes
:30:27. > :30:30.the likes of Charlotte Rampling and Michelle Dockery,
:30:31. > :30:32.with the great Jim Broadbent as the story's protagonist,
:30:33. > :30:34.Tony Webster, a grumpy divorcee still coming to terms with a tragic
:30:35. > :30:37.incident from his youth. When we met, Jim told me
:30:38. > :30:46.what drew him to this role. What really drew me
:30:47. > :30:52.to it was the whole premise, the gaucheness and the clumsiness
:30:53. > :30:58.of the young man, the sixth former, He doesn't really know how to handle
:30:59. > :31:08.the opposite sex and how to handle relationships
:31:09. > :31:09.and makes awful mistakes. And then in the story, it transpires
:31:10. > :31:12.that although we grow older, The face is wiser,
:31:13. > :31:16.but nothing else is? Yeah, I mean, behaviour
:31:17. > :31:18.becomes more sophisticated. You get better at acting, you know,
:31:19. > :31:23.as if you know what's going on. You mentioned the
:31:24. > :31:24.opposite sex, there. Your character, Tony,
:31:25. > :31:27.is surrounded by three very impressive and formidable women,
:31:28. > :31:31.the ex-wife, the daughter To what extent do you think
:31:32. > :31:39.this is a self-critical Men don't come out
:31:40. > :31:41.of it terribly well. And they are three wonderful
:31:42. > :31:47.actresses playing those parts. Yes, I think, I mean,
:31:48. > :31:49.that does seem to be That the men behave slightly more
:31:50. > :31:54.irrationally than the women. And Charlotte Rampling
:31:55. > :32:01.is the ex-girlfriend, who he hasn't seen for many years,
:32:02. > :32:04.and perfect casting. I was fairly starstruck,
:32:05. > :32:09.which is quite a good reflection So I was slightly
:32:10. > :32:16.nervous of Charlotte... And Harriet Walter,
:32:17. > :32:43.who plays my ex-wife, we were at college together,
:32:44. > :32:45.and we played husband and wife more than once,
:32:46. > :32:48.so that works as well. And then Michelle is
:32:49. > :32:50.lovely as the daughter. Moving on, we broke up,
:32:51. > :33:01.is the point, while we were Not long after, she formed
:33:02. > :33:07.a relationship with my best friend and I wrote them both
:33:08. > :33:10.a very nasty letter. As a man, you feel slightly pinned
:33:11. > :33:14.against the wall by this film, surrounded by judgmental,
:33:15. > :33:19.clever, tough women, looking kind of quite in a flinty
:33:20. > :33:22.way at you the whole time. None of them have a huge amount of
:33:23. > :33:28.respect for poor old Tony Webster. And it jumps from the present day,
:33:29. > :33:31.right back to, I guess, So I wanted to ask you, if I may,
:33:32. > :33:39.about your own parents. Because I have read that your father
:33:40. > :33:43.was relatively well off but actually spent his own money to create a kind
:33:44. > :33:46.of haven for conscientious objectors Yeah, it was, basically,
:33:47. > :33:56.an educational commune, where they would then teach other
:33:57. > :33:58.conscientious objectors He knew nothing about agriculture
:33:59. > :34:06.but he did know about machines. Which leads me onto my next thing,
:34:07. > :34:19.because there's not a lot of Quakerism or indeed pacifism
:34:20. > :34:22.in Game Of Thrones. Now, I don't know if you're able
:34:23. > :34:25.to say anything at all about it, but I know that you're
:34:26. > :34:27.in the new series. Yes, I am, I'm playing an older
:34:28. > :34:29.man, unsurprisingly. So he's got quite a bit of status,
:34:30. > :34:35.there, but I can't really tell You're also, I think,
:34:36. > :34:39.playing a Hatton Garden robber, that story we all remember
:34:40. > :34:41.from the papers, about these group This was a story I think
:34:42. > :34:45.you probably remember Yeah, when it happened, I thought,
:34:46. > :34:49."They'll make a film out of this, That's one of the only
:34:50. > :34:54.times I've ever, sort of, I generally just wait for them
:34:55. > :34:59.to come along and let them surprise me but this one did,
:35:00. > :35:06.it actually came through. Because the phrase that is always
:35:07. > :35:10.used about you is "character actor". What do you think
:35:11. > :35:11."character actor" means? Well, my parents were obviously very
:35:12. > :35:14.interested in theatre We used to go to the Lincoln
:35:15. > :35:21.Theatre Royal rep a lot. And I loved, particularly
:35:22. > :35:25.loved seeing the actors who were there for a year
:35:26. > :35:28.or so at a time, in those days, seeing them play different
:35:29. > :35:30.characters every week. And I, I loved that whole mystery
:35:31. > :35:38.of how they did that. And I think that's set
:35:39. > :35:40.in my mind somewhere, that that is the aspect of acting
:35:41. > :35:43.that I really liked, that you can change yourself
:35:44. > :35:45.and be something utterly And because I suppose if you haven't
:35:46. > :35:52.been known for running around with an Uzi submachine gun
:35:53. > :35:54.and a chiselled jaw in your 20s, then your career lasts
:35:55. > :35:57.a lot longer, or can do. As you get older, we are
:35:58. > :36:02.all character actors! Some of the chiselled jaw ones,
:36:03. > :36:05.even they are character actors So I got a bit of a head start
:36:06. > :36:10.in practising the changing nature Jim Broadbent, thank you very much
:36:11. > :36:14.indeed for talking to us. When it comes to Syria,
:36:15. > :36:21.it's hard to avoid the impression We applaud the Americans, though
:36:22. > :36:25.we certainly wouldn't join them, and we're in favour of talking
:36:26. > :36:28.to the Russians, but just So how does the British Government
:36:29. > :36:32.actually see the conflict ending? Priti Patel, as International
:36:33. > :36:35.Development Secretary, is the politician charged
:36:36. > :36:38.with coping with the humanitarian crisis the Syrian war has unleashed,
:36:39. > :36:52.and she joins me now from Liverpool. Welcome, Priti Patel. Can I ask you,
:36:53. > :36:56.first of all, were we told by the Americans not to send Boris Johnson
:36:57. > :37:01.to Moscow? It is quite clear that events with regards to Syria have
:37:02. > :37:04.moved on and our focus, brightly the Foreign Secretary's pokers, is on
:37:05. > :37:08.working with the international community to look at a political
:37:09. > :37:13.resolution, so he is focused on the G-7 meeting taking place this coming
:37:14. > :37:16.week and working of course with the US but importantly other allies in
:37:17. > :37:35.the international community when it comes to finding the right
:37:36. > :37:39.kind of peaceful and political settlement to this conflict. The
:37:40. > :37:41.problem, if I may say so, with that explanation is that we are saying
:37:42. > :37:43.the important thing is to talk, negotiate, get back to the
:37:44. > :37:46.negotiating table above all with the Russians and yet at this moment we
:37:47. > :37:48.choose not to go and talk to them. It is surprising. On the contrary,
:37:49. > :37:52.the American Secretary of State is going to Russia, but I think this is
:37:53. > :37:53.not about just one voice, it is about the international community
:37:54. > :37:55.coming together, and our Foreign Secretary is working with his
:37:56. > :37:59.American counterpart, as that is the right thing to do, but important as
:38:00. > :38:01.well that we work across the international community. This
:38:02. > :38:06.matters, when you look at the overall issue when it comes to
:38:07. > :38:07.Syria, this is the world's largest humanitarian crisis that we are
:38:08. > :38:23.seeing and the world has come together, counterpart across Europe
:38:24. > :38:25.in America, we work collectively to lead the way and provide support to
:38:26. > :38:27.the hundreds of thousands of people that have been displaced and harmed
:38:28. > :38:30.because of this awful, atrocious conflict. I think you have some more
:38:31. > :38:33.money aimed at those people right now, we are spending more per head
:38:34. > :38:37.on the Syrian crisis in a humanitarian sense than any other
:38:38. > :38:42.country? This is the most protracted crisis we have seen in a generation,
:38:43. > :38:47.the UK has committed ?2.46 billion to the Syrian crisis, to the people
:38:48. > :38:54.in the region, so, yes, those inside Syria, we have seen in excess of
:38:55. > :38:59.13.5 million people suffer the most appalling thing is that we can only
:39:00. > :39:03.imagine, but also we have seen huge displacement into countries such as
:39:04. > :39:08.Turkey, Georgia and Lebanon, so our resources are keeping people in the
:39:09. > :39:12.region but importantly giving them life-saving and life changing
:39:13. > :39:16.support, so supporting Syrian refugees to get employment, get
:39:17. > :39:20.children into education, which is vital, but also humanitarian support
:39:21. > :39:23.as well is crucial, in particular medical support, as we have seen
:39:24. > :39:30.after the barbarous chemical attack that took place this week. If this
:39:31. > :39:33.is not the whatever reason for Britain to talk to Russia, when will
:39:34. > :39:38.be the right time? We look at this in the brand, we are speaking to all
:39:39. > :39:41.counterparts. Just two days ago at the UN Security Council, the United
:39:42. > :39:46.Kingdom is beating up, making its boys very clear and heard within
:39:47. > :39:51.that content, and speaking to all partners, and we are engaging with
:39:52. > :39:55.all partners constantly. This week I was in Brussels, the Foreign
:39:56. > :40:00.Secretary was in Brussels, engaging with our counterparts... But not the
:40:01. > :40:07.Russians? A la engagement is with everyone... But not the Russians.
:40:08. > :40:11.Our Foreign Secretary is engaging with other counterparts, we need a
:40:12. > :40:14.political solution, no doubt about that, Russia has an important role
:40:15. > :40:19.to play as well because they have to become part of the solution and we
:40:20. > :40:24.will all engage with them through hopefully a UN mediated process. But
:40:25. > :40:27.this is what is bemusing, sorry to go on about it, but we keep saying
:40:28. > :40:32.we must talk to the Russians, they are at the heart of the process, but
:40:33. > :40:38.given an opportunity for a big summit in Russia we pull out at the
:40:39. > :40:41.last minute, we offend the Russians, we don't get a proper explanation of
:40:42. > :40:46.what is going on. On the contrary, nothing is bemusing when we see what
:40:47. > :40:50.has happened this week, and, with respect, we are constantly engaging
:40:51. > :40:53.with all our counterparts and there has been dialogue, the Foreign
:40:54. > :40:57.Secretary has engaged his Russian counterpart previously as well, so
:40:58. > :41:01.these discussions are continuous and that is the right approach and we
:41:02. > :41:04.are now working, rightly so, leading the discussions with other
:41:05. > :41:10.international counterparts... Viewers can make up their own mind
:41:11. > :41:14.as to whether they are bemused or not. But can I ask, if there is
:41:15. > :41:18.another chemical attack of the same kind, would we support another
:41:19. > :41:22.strike by the Americans in the same way? We will not even speculate on
:41:23. > :41:27.hypothetical scenarios and situations, but what we will do, and
:41:28. > :41:30.this is why UK aid is so important, we will continue to provide
:41:31. > :41:35.life-saving support that is required, when we see such enormous
:41:36. > :41:38.medical emergencies, and that is why we, through DYFI, UK aid has
:41:39. > :41:53.provided additional support to the World
:41:54. > :41:56.Health Organization today, to provide medical support -- to DFI
:41:57. > :41:58.deed, to prepare for all sorts of eventualities because the conditions
:41:59. > :42:00.in Syria are more than atrocious and we have a complete duty and
:42:01. > :42:03.obligation to make sure we are providing the support necessary to
:42:04. > :42:05.the Syrian people living in such horrendous conditions. It is great
:42:06. > :42:08.we provide humanitarian support, the reason we are not doing any more
:42:09. > :42:10.goes back to the 2013 vote in the House of Commons, George Osborne
:42:11. > :42:15.said this week events of the last few days give us a chance to reverse
:42:16. > :42:18.what he called that terrible vote. Do you think the Government should
:42:19. > :42:22.go back to the House of Commons for another debate and vote on Syria and
:42:23. > :42:30.reopen the possibility of Britain becoming involved in these actions
:42:31. > :42:34.as well? Parliament spoke in 2013. The focus right now, rightly so, has
:42:35. > :42:37.to be on a political solution, and that means working with our
:42:38. > :42:42.international counterparts to look at how we can bring those engaged in
:42:43. > :42:46.this war to stop the War and get them around the negotiating table,
:42:47. > :42:50.that has to be the first principle right now. Looking to achieve a
:42:51. > :42:54.political settlement. We cannot look to the future and see whether or not
:42:55. > :43:08.we are going to have another debate or go back to Parliament. I think we
:43:09. > :43:10.all have to work, we owe it to the Syrian people who have suffered over
:43:11. > :43:12.the last 60 years, to work together across the international
:43:13. > :43:15.community... To choose not to go and talk to the Russians? Through all of
:43:16. > :43:18.the forum is coming up, the G7, the G20, plenty of other forums where we
:43:19. > :43:23.will meet our counterparts, we have to work with each other and look to
:43:24. > :43:27.find the right solution going forward. You suggest we should not
:43:28. > :43:31.go back to Parliament, we should accept the 2013 vote as a done deal
:43:32. > :43:35.but this is the new parliament, new Government, new prime minister and,
:43:36. > :43:38.sadly, a new situation in Syria. Isn't there a case for going back to
:43:39. > :43:58.Parliament? There is a case to do the right thing right
:43:59. > :44:01.now, which is engage with others. But let's not forget about the awful
:44:02. > :44:05.suffering, we have seen the most barbaric attacks this week. We have
:44:06. > :44:08.to make sure the international community, and Britain is leading
:44:09. > :44:12.the international community when it comes to the humanitarian response,
:44:13. > :44:16.that we stand together, stand tall and look after those people where we
:44:17. > :44:19.can in the region but also worked incredibly hard to make sure we can
:44:20. > :44:22.get aid supplies and medical supplies to the people that
:44:23. > :44:27.desperately need them inside Syria. I'm not sure we made a huge amount
:44:28. > :44:28.of advancement but thank you, Priti Patel, for joining us from
:44:29. > :44:28.Liverpool. Within hours of the American missile
:44:29. > :44:30.strikes being announced, Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson
:44:31. > :44:33.applauded them as a direct and proportionate response,
:44:34. > :44:34.while Jeremy Corbyn condemned So what does the opposition really
:44:35. > :44:38.think about this hugely important The Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily
:44:39. > :44:51.Thornberry is with me. The morning. Which side do you fall?
:44:52. > :44:55.Are you with Tom Watson Jeremy Corbyn? We agree we have dubbed the
:44:56. > :44:59.war stopped as soon as possible, we look at these terrible pictures and
:45:00. > :45:05.know only a political solution will solve this. So was the Trump strike
:45:06. > :45:09.wrong? I think and it is the party position that the best thing for
:45:10. > :45:13.Donald Trump to have done was to be involved with the United Nations in
:45:14. > :45:17.ensuring we had a speedy investigation into ensuring we had
:45:18. > :45:21.clear evidence that President Assad was responsible for the strike and
:45:22. > :45:25.then for us to work as part of the international community to do
:45:26. > :45:27.something about it and to act unilaterally was wrong. The problem
:45:28. > :45:31.with waiting for the UN, as we both know is that when it comes to the
:45:32. > :45:36.Security Council, Russia simply vetoes everything and therefore, it
:45:37. > :45:41.can look like a recipe for complete inaction. Yes, but the point is
:45:42. > :45:44.this, isn't it? There is no way the Russians can say it would be wrong
:45:45. > :45:47.for them not to be an investigation. Remember, the Russians had a
:45:48. > :45:53.completely different explanation for the chemical attack. Do you believe
:45:54. > :45:56.them? Clearly, it is more than likely it was Asad's responsibility
:45:57. > :46:00.but where we ought to start from is we can be sure because there are UN
:46:01. > :46:06.investigators in Syria at the moment. And a Guardian journalist
:46:07. > :46:09.was there more or less at the time and we got a very good report.
:46:10. > :46:14.Absolutely, and then the question is, where does the sarin come from,
:46:15. > :46:18.because the UN investigators have got rid of 1300 tonnes of it already
:46:19. > :46:20.and we have to make sure the chemical weapons throughout Syria
:46:21. > :46:27.are got rid of and we have to do that as an international community.
:46:28. > :46:31.You can be against that? Can I ask about the principled Labour position
:46:32. > :46:36.on this? In a parallel universe, if the UN established this was
:46:37. > :46:40.definitely Asad's fault, would be Labour Party support strikes against
:46:41. > :46:44.him? Not in a parallel universe, I don't agree with you. I think it is
:46:45. > :46:50.in this universe, it is within this world... It is unlikely UN will do
:46:51. > :46:54.it which is why I said that. We have to be part of international
:46:55. > :46:58.agreements so if the international community felt the only way in which
:46:59. > :47:01.this could be dealt with was by way of military action... So there are
:47:02. > :47:05.circumstances in which Labour would support the use of military action
:47:06. > :47:10.against President Assad? The question is, how do we bring this
:47:11. > :47:13.war to an end? That is where we actually start from so anything we
:47:14. > :47:17.do has to be seen through the lens of, will this bring the war to an
:47:18. > :47:21.end faster? Will more bombs in that area bring the war to an end faster?
:47:22. > :47:25.Will it bring the parties round the table? Or will we just, as we are
:47:26. > :47:29.seeing at the moment, a division of the international community? Have we
:47:30. > :47:34.not set back the negotiations as a result of what has happened in the
:47:35. > :47:38.last couple of days? Taking that into account, you have said yourself
:47:39. > :47:43.you are not a pacifist. I'm not. So I come again to the question, in
:47:44. > :47:47.what circumstances would Labour support a strike against Assad?
:47:48. > :47:51.There has to be a plan. You have had many politicians sitting in these
:47:52. > :47:56.chairs the last few years. Have we learned nothing from Iraq and Libya?
:47:57. > :48:00.We need to have a plan. It needs to be clear. Of course, there are many
:48:01. > :48:04.types of intervention and military intervention is the last but it has
:48:05. > :48:08.to be part of a plan and it has to be part of how we get a lasting
:48:09. > :48:12.peace. In my view, at the moment, what we need is the international
:48:13. > :48:17.community to be round the table. The fact is, Syria is not only a civil
:48:18. > :48:20.war, it is a regional war and we have international players, and they
:48:21. > :48:24.need to be working together to work out what it is they are going to do.
:48:25. > :48:29.Seven years of dreadful war. And the Russians are pivotal to this. Of
:48:30. > :48:37.course. They are, as it were, in control and I suppose the problem
:48:38. > :48:40.with your position is what possible pressure can there be an them Warren
:48:41. > :48:42.Sapp is military options are taken off the table? They carry on, the
:48:43. > :48:45.situation of talking to the Russians and letting them sort this out has
:48:46. > :48:48.gone on for years and years. Huge numbers of people have been killed
:48:49. > :48:52.and made homeless by that. So if it carries on, what happens? There are
:48:53. > :48:57.so many international players involved, Saudi Arabia, Turkey,
:48:58. > :49:00.Hezbollah. They don't count compared to the Russians. I hear you and I
:49:01. > :49:04.understand that but in the end, there has to be a form of
:49:05. > :49:09.international agreement. I'm not saying it is easy but what I am
:49:10. > :49:12.saying is that continuing to bomb in Syria is not the solution. Were you
:49:13. > :49:16.disappointed when you heard Boris Johnson was not going to Moscow
:49:17. > :49:20.after all? Is Boris Johnson thinks it is more appropriate for him to be
:49:21. > :49:25.involved in the G7 process, that is a matter for him. But what really
:49:26. > :49:28.matters for me is that we start talking. Obviously, that has to
:49:29. > :49:32.include talking to the Russians. And not, you know, this continual
:49:33. > :49:36.division. A lot of what we have heard is great rhetoric but it's not
:49:37. > :49:39.peacemaking. It makes great headlines, what has been going on in
:49:40. > :49:44.the last couple of days. So where would you start if you were in the
:49:45. > :49:48.Foreign Office now? On day one, where do you start? Kick-starting
:49:49. > :49:54.the Geneva peace process and making it serious. It has been meandering
:49:55. > :49:58.on for years. It fell apart before. How do you kick-started? We have to
:49:59. > :50:04.be honest with each other and start being prepared to compromise and
:50:05. > :50:10.being prepared to talk. I mean, jaw jaw, there is no other solution. It
:50:11. > :50:14.has killed a lot of Syrians. And so has the bombing. What is your
:50:15. > :50:18.solution? There is no military solution to this. The only solution
:50:19. > :50:23.is political and the question is, as the last week brought a political
:50:24. > :50:26.solution any closer? I'm afraid it hasn't. I don't think the
:50:27. > :50:30.government's position on this helps. Does it cause you a lot of problems
:50:31. > :50:36.that so many of your colleagues disagree with you? Tom Watson and
:50:37. > :50:39.Nia Griffiths, the defence spokesman, does not agree. That was
:50:40. > :50:43.not what she said to me. So she is with you? I don't want to get into
:50:44. > :50:47.internal gossip but I appreciate Tom has had a different position to us
:50:48. > :50:50.and he did last time there was a vote. 17 Labour MPs have called for
:50:51. > :50:56.a no-fly zone which would involve some kind of military involvement. A
:50:57. > :51:00.no-fly zone has attached to it a large number of problems. Obviously,
:51:01. > :51:05.it means that any jet that flies over the zone can get shot down.
:51:06. > :51:11.That would include Russian jets. Are we happy to be doing that? Will it
:51:12. > :51:15.escalate the Syrian war? Will it move us towards... So you are
:51:16. > :51:20.against that? OK. People criticise this will be in weak position but
:51:21. > :51:26.it's not, it is actually the strongest position. The easiest
:51:27. > :51:28.thing to do is succumb to the pressure but actually, you have to
:51:29. > :51:30.have your eyes on the final goal which is peace. That is difficult.
:51:31. > :51:33.Difficult when some of your colleagues are peeling off in the
:51:34. > :51:36.opposite direction. There's a wisp in debates in the Labour Party on
:51:37. > :51:40.issues like this and I'm not going to worry about it. This is an
:51:41. > :51:43.important period for all parties heading to the local elections. What
:51:44. > :51:48.does success in the local elections look like for the Labour Party in
:51:49. > :51:51.your view? I was here about a year ago, and we will being told them,
:51:52. > :51:55.Labour was so divided and it was terrible and we were going to be
:51:56. > :51:59.badly and we defied expectations, and we did that because we went into
:52:00. > :52:02.those elections united and more importantly, because our activists
:52:03. > :52:06.on the ground got out on the doorstep and sold the message. So
:52:07. > :52:10.when people say, pollsters suggest you could lose more than 125
:52:11. > :52:14.councillors, do you think this is ludicrous meeting at -- media
:52:15. > :52:18.scaremongering and we should wait for the result? All I'm focused on
:52:19. > :52:21.is winning as many seats as possible and ensuring we stay united as a
:52:22. > :52:26.party because our movement, when United, can do great things.
:52:27. > :52:31.Absolutely, when United, but mid-term, you need to win seats,
:52:32. > :52:35.really, don't you? We need to be out there, focused entirely on winning
:52:36. > :52:41.as many seats as we can. This week you produced one policy which got
:52:42. > :52:44.quite a good reaction in a lot of the media on schools. Free school
:52:45. > :52:49.dinners. For a lot of middle-class kids. Yeah. By taking money from
:52:50. > :52:52.creative. More or less every week, Jeremy Corbyn comes to the House of
:52:53. > :52:55.Commons and says the underfunding of English schools in particular is a
:52:56. > :52:58.scandal and they don't have enough teachers, parents are being brought
:52:59. > :53:01.in to teach, and we know this is true, there's a real problem in
:53:02. > :53:04.schools at the moment. Wouldn't it be better to use the money from the
:53:05. > :53:08.VAT to employ more teachers rather than giving children from relatively
:53:09. > :53:13.affluent backgrounds free school meals? I'm a great believer in free
:53:14. > :53:17.school dinners for two reasons. Firstly, because we had it in my
:53:18. > :53:20.borough for a number of years and it's a great thing and secondly, I'm
:53:21. > :53:25.a product of free school dinners myself. I would not be the big,
:53:26. > :53:30.stronger I am today without them! I'm saying nothing. But the point is
:53:31. > :53:32.this, in my borough, many people who were entitled for free school
:53:33. > :53:36.dinners were not claiming them because of the stigma. I mean, I had
:53:37. > :53:43.to queue up separately with different coloured tickets when I
:53:44. > :53:46.got them. Everyone in the school does it but you sit down as each
:53:47. > :53:48.amenity, and it is part of your education when it comes to teaching
:53:49. > :53:51.people about healthy eating. You sit down as a community. Your argument
:53:52. > :53:55.about why we subsidising middle-class kids to have lunch? Why
:53:56. > :53:58.are we subsidising them to go to state schools? It is part of the
:53:59. > :54:02.state educational experience, having lunch together. Sir Michael Wilshaw,
:54:03. > :54:05.the former head of Ofsted said I don't see why we should subsidise
:54:06. > :54:08.rich and prosperous parents who can well afford to pay for their
:54:09. > :54:14.children. I would rather see any extra cash available being given to
:54:15. > :54:19.poorer parents. As I said, I believe that education should be universal,
:54:20. > :54:22.that all children should go state schools and part of that education
:54:23. > :54:26.should be having a lunch and part of that is being thought about healthy
:54:27. > :54:30.eating. If you look at poor children now, they are overweight, not thin,
:54:31. > :54:34.because of poor eating, bad eating habits and part of your education
:54:35. > :54:40.ought to be teaching you about how you grow a carrot and things.
:54:41. > :54:47.Quickly, did Livingstone speak in anti-Semitic terms when he said
:54:48. > :54:49.those things about Hitler and the... I was surprised and Frankie the
:54:50. > :54:53.world that he was not suspended from the Labour Party as a result. Then I
:54:54. > :54:55.was surprised he was not thrown out. I think he should have been. Emily
:54:56. > :54:57.Thornberry, thank you. We've been talking for much
:54:58. > :55:00.of the past hour about The Coldstream Guards are raising
:55:01. > :55:03.awareness of combat stress in a St George's Concert
:55:04. > :55:05.at Cadogan Hall in I'm very pleased to say that
:55:06. > :55:09.a detachment of Coldstream Guards will be in the studio to play us out
:55:10. > :55:11.in a moment. The Army's Principal Director
:55:12. > :55:23.of Music, Lieutenant-Colonel Darren Good morning. We see these guys with
:55:24. > :55:28.their magnificent uniforms in London and so forth but they are out on the
:55:29. > :55:32.front line as well, is that right? Our musicians have the ability to go
:55:33. > :55:37.into the forward operating bases and performed to soldiers on operations.
:55:38. > :55:40.They have the ability to create an oasis of calm in an otherwise
:55:41. > :55:43.extremely stressful environment and some of the comments we have had
:55:44. > :55:49.back from the soldiers, the ability to just step away for an hour,
:55:50. > :55:52.forget where they are, have been really good. And presumably that is
:55:53. > :55:58.why these guys in their bearskins and so forth, are out in Afghanistan
:55:59. > :56:03.or Iraq or it might be so combat stress is something they know about?
:56:04. > :56:11.Yes, they do. On the home front, the concert we are putting on an Saint
:56:12. > :56:13.George state allows us to contribute here and highlight the good work
:56:14. > :56:19.that charities are combat stress are doing in UK. -- St George's day. A
:56:20. > :56:22.magnificent enter the programme, played out in unusual form.
:56:23. > :56:25.Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
:56:26. > :56:30.Join us at 10am from Cambridge where we will be debating the ethics of
:56:31. > :56:37.trading with countries that abuse human rights, and gender neutral
:56:38. > :56:42.language. Using it and they, or he and she. Would this be better for
:56:43. > :56:46.humanity? And last, the true meaning of Easter, eggs at the ready, take
:56:47. > :56:47.aim and throw! See you at 10am on BBC One.
:56:48. > :56:51.We're off air next week for Easter but we'll
:56:52. > :56:53.be back on 23 April, St George's Day, when I'll be
:56:54. > :56:56.talking to an English music icon about his love of America.
:56:57. > :56:57.That's an exclusive with Sir Ray Davies.
:56:58. > :57:00.Until then, we leave you now with the Coldstream Guards.
:57:01. > :57:02.This is the Fanfare from La Peri by Paul Dukas.
:57:03. > :57:21.MUSIC: La Peri - Fanfare by Paul Dukas.