:00:07. > :00:09.If there's one thing that's dominated this
:00:10. > :00:15.it's the battle for the votes of the patriotic working classes -
:00:16. > :00:20.Labour promising fairer Robin Hood taxes and an ethical foreign policy,
:00:21. > :00:24.the Tories attacking Jeremy Corbyn for being soft on defence
:00:25. > :00:26.while offering those voters new council houses.
:00:27. > :00:50.Time, this morning, to probe a little closer.
:00:51. > :00:53.So, two radically different political personalities go head
:00:54. > :00:56.to head - Emily Thornberry, the Shadow Foreign Secretary who's
:00:57. > :01:01.attacked Theresa May for "fawning" over Donald Trump.
:01:02. > :01:03.And Sir Michael Fallon, the Defence Secretary who's savaged
:01:04. > :01:07.Jeremny Corbyn as feeble and dangerous for Britain.
:01:08. > :01:10.But we're not limiting ourselves to London this morning.
:01:11. > :01:14.Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland's First Minister and leader of the SNP,
:01:15. > :01:16.is here in the studio talking about why independence,
:01:17. > :01:27.whatever the unionists say, is on the ballot in this election.
:01:28. > :01:29.Our news review this morning features the BBC journalist who's
:01:30. > :01:37.been following Nicola Sturgeon on the campaign trail -
:01:38. > :01:40.Observer star commentator Andrew Rawnsley.
:01:41. > :01:42.And from the Sun, pulling no punches, Jane Moore.
:01:43. > :01:47.An international effort is under way to track down the criminals behind
:01:48. > :01:51.the global cyber attack that wreaked havoc across the NHS on Friday.
:01:52. > :01:55.Hospitals, GP surgeries and ambulance services
:01:56. > :01:58.across England and Scotland were disrupted when their IT systems
:01:59. > :02:09.But experts fear that hackers may seek to exploit the chaos.
:02:10. > :02:12.The Conservatives say they'll join forces with councils and housing
:02:13. > :02:15.associations to build thousands of new homes for rent -
:02:16. > :02:21.However it's not clear how much money the Tories would invest -
:02:22. > :02:25.and Labour have dismissed the announcement as spin.
:02:26. > :02:28.Labour says that if it wins the general election it will impose
:02:29. > :02:30.a so-called Robin Hood tax on financial transactions
:02:31. > :02:35.They say the levy would raise ?26 billion
:02:36. > :02:38.over the next parliament for public services.
:02:39. > :02:40.The Conservatives said it was "madness" to target
:02:41. > :02:46.Portugal has won the Eurovision Song Contest for the first time
:02:47. > :02:52.The United Kingdom - represented by former
:02:53. > :02:54.X Factor contestant Lucie Jones - got its best
:02:55. > :02:57.result in six years after coming 15th.
:02:58. > :03:03.The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.
:03:04. > :03:16.The NHS story over many of the papers with the Mail on Sunday
:03:17. > :03:20.saying there were 66 alerts to the NHS but nothing was done before the
:03:21. > :03:28.cyber attacks and the Sunday Telegraph has the same story. Chaos
:03:29. > :03:31.hitting thousands of patients. The Sunday Times, Harry Styles is
:03:32. > :03:37.apparently against Brexit. Why we need to know this, I don't know.
:03:38. > :03:44.They splash on Theresa May's pledge on their council house revolution,
:03:45. > :03:53.they said. Lots of those who voted remain targeting MPs. And a
:03:54. > :03:59.millionaire Brexit donor targeting pro-remain MPs according to the
:04:00. > :04:06.Observer newspaper. The Sunday express, Theresa May to smash Maggie
:04:07. > :04:13.record, it says. Perhaps optimistically.
:04:14. > :04:21.Unless you have been locked in a cupboard, you will know the NHS has
:04:22. > :04:25.been the victim of a cyber attack, as have other organisations
:04:26. > :04:32.worldwide. It is called Eternal Blue, it sounds like a paint colour.
:04:33. > :04:47.Originally designed by DNS a in the States and possibly by our own
:04:48. > :04:51.spooks working with them. -- NSA. Microsoft had issued a warning in
:04:52. > :04:54.March. It is like all of us, you do not want to spend the money until
:04:55. > :05:01.you are burgled and then you secure your house. Charles Arthur, a
:05:02. > :05:07.technology writer, a good piece, taking the Mickey out of Amber Rudd,
:05:08. > :05:13.saying she was on the radio, saying patients were inconvenienced but no
:05:14. > :05:18.date had been accessed. He says unfortunately also the NHS staff
:05:19. > :05:25.cannot access data. He says Amber Rudd can burble on but the 1 billion
:05:26. > :05:30.put in is a fraction of the amount needed to upgrade the system. Should
:05:31. > :05:35.we spend more money to protect institutions against attacks? In
:05:36. > :05:40.this case it is much loved, the institution, the NHS but we have
:05:41. > :05:43.seen private companies have been as vulnerable and their customers have
:05:44. > :05:49.had as many problems. The difficulty for organisations is cybercrime by
:05:50. > :05:57.its nature is nimble. Money may be part of it and a lot of it may be
:05:58. > :06:01.keeping ahead of cybercriminals. This has been happening to private
:06:02. > :06:04.companies and charities for years but they have not like to admit it
:06:05. > :06:09.because it makes them look vulnerable. Which undermines public
:06:10. > :06:13.confidence. Now we know it has opened to the NHS it has opened a
:06:14. > :06:19.can of worms. In fairness to the trusts, if they said we will spend 5
:06:20. > :06:25.billion on a computer everyone will say the NHS cut operations. It might
:06:26. > :06:34.not take 5 billion. There is a hero in the story. Nobody knows his name.
:06:35. > :06:43.His online handle is MalwareTech. Within eight a few hours, he says,
:06:44. > :06:48.he was a way to to save the NHS computers and disable the malware.
:06:49. > :06:55.He said it only took him a couple of hours so maybe it is not 5 billion
:06:56. > :06:58.to upgrade. Teenagers. There is a ripple of expectation running
:06:59. > :07:07.through the country. We will turn to the election coverage. You have
:07:08. > :07:14.Craig Oliver. Interesting his byline is simple Craig Oliver, not Sir
:07:15. > :07:20.Craig Oliver. The knighthood he got from his mate David Cameron. He said
:07:21. > :07:23.it is all very well to say it is a shoo-in for Theresa May but if you
:07:24. > :07:29.don't think the manifesto matters you could not be more wrong. He said
:07:30. > :07:35.this week she will have to prove she is on the side of the people and
:07:36. > :07:40.what she said is not just "Windy rhetoric". He says Theresa May is
:07:41. > :07:45.the last one truly standing, will be master of all she surveys on June
:07:46. > :07:49.the 9th, but her manifesto could be the route map between being seen as
:07:50. > :07:56.a great Prime Minister, or it could be a bland document that put safety
:07:57. > :08:02.first. Andrew, two stories happening about what is really going on in the
:08:03. > :08:07.campaign and the Mail on Sunday has a poll by Michael Ashcroft which
:08:08. > :08:12.suggests a fast Tory landslide. Former Tory Treasury. The paper poll
:08:13. > :08:18.intensely when there is a campaign and we have the Mail on Sunday which
:08:19. > :08:23.says it is a shock mega- poll that reveals true scale of Labour
:08:24. > :08:30.collapse and putting the Prime Minister on track for a 172 seat
:08:31. > :08:35.landslide. Campaigners would regard this story as unhelpful because one
:08:36. > :08:37.of the worries in the conservative high command is giving the
:08:38. > :08:48.impression it is all over and Theresa May is steam-rollering to
:08:49. > :08:55.majority. Maybe it will encourage Labour supporters to turn up. If you
:08:56. > :09:00.look at the polling, Labour above 30%, better than sometimes Ed
:09:01. > :09:08.Miliband was doing. It is not clear Jeremy Corbyn on the campaign trail,
:09:09. > :09:19.not doing any harm at all. The Sunday Mirror says he is closing the
:09:20. > :09:29.gap. Even honest pollsters would probably say this candidly. Window
:09:30. > :09:33.they overestimated the vote last time. Have they overcorrected and
:09:34. > :09:37.underestimating the Labour vote? Have they not corrected enough,
:09:38. > :09:43.which will be alarming for Labour which would show they are doing even
:09:44. > :09:50.worse. We are not talking about the margin of error when you talk about
:09:51. > :09:56.Labour closing the lead to 18%. Sarah Smith, you have a story on the
:09:57. > :09:59.tablet. There are a Scottish election is going on and different
:10:00. > :10:06.manifestos in Scotland and possibly one of the big stars of the campaign
:10:07. > :10:10.is Ruth Davidson. She is hoping to lead a Tory revival into
:10:11. > :10:15.Westminster. They only have one seat in Westminster and have a target of
:10:16. > :10:20.reaching ten, 12 seats, which would be remarkable. The story here today
:10:21. > :10:24.is she will announce a U-turn on prescription charges when they
:10:25. > :10:29.launched the Scottish manifesto, which will be fascinating because
:10:30. > :10:34.the UK Tory policy is to charge for prescriptions. It was an SNP policy
:10:35. > :10:38.that in Scotland they are free and now the Conservatives are getting
:10:39. > :10:42.behind the idea of free prescriptions, probably because they
:10:43. > :10:47.are trying to eat into the Labour vote. The election in Scotland split
:10:48. > :10:50.between nationalists supporting independence, probably voting SNP
:10:51. > :10:55.and unionists on the other side and Tories hope to say, we are the party
:10:56. > :11:02.of the union, if you do not want a referendum, vote for us. Bringing
:11:03. > :11:14.voters with them on policies like this. Let's move away from the
:11:15. > :11:22.election to the Rachel Nickell murder. It was 25 years ago,
:11:23. > :11:26.astonishingly. Wimbledon Common. Her son, who was there at the time...
:11:27. > :11:29.Interesting about trauma and toddlers. He was not quite three.
:11:30. > :11:53.You wondered how much he remembers. He has written a
:11:54. > :12:02.book. His father took him to France so he did not become a media
:12:03. > :12:07.sensation. What I find interesting. He says I forgive my mother's
:12:08. > :12:12.killer. He had a rough upbringing and childhood. He was a
:12:13. > :12:18.schizophrenic. He has tried to commit suicide. I do not feel
:12:19. > :12:26.resentment. It is remarkable. Some foreign politics. Trump sacking the
:12:27. > :12:31.FBI boss and the extraordinary language he used. You are hereby
:12:32. > :12:36.terminated, he said. Absolutely amazing. This has been compares to
:12:37. > :12:41.Watergate as one of the great Washington scandal moments. An
:12:42. > :12:44.astonishing story that talks about how Donald Trump sees it and the way
:12:45. > :12:49.he can use his presidency and what is happening with the FBI and the
:12:50. > :12:54.investigation into Russian hacking of the election and the story the
:12:55. > :13:00.Sunday Times have is interesting saying the FBI chief James Comey who
:13:01. > :13:06.was sacked is planning to strike back. Giving interviews and possible
:13:07. > :13:09.testimony about why he was sacked. It was probably because of
:13:10. > :13:17.congressional testimony he gave in the first place that Trump sacked
:13:18. > :13:22.him. In the United States Congress get interested in doing
:13:23. > :13:25.investigations. The process takes over and you get endless
:13:26. > :13:30.investigations and people keep pulling at the threads until things
:13:31. > :13:35.unravel. That is a large part of Watergate. It was a year between the
:13:36. > :13:41.President sacking the special prosecutor and having to resign, in
:13:42. > :13:44.Watergate. Meanwhile, Trump issues a menacing warning that Comey better
:13:45. > :13:48.hope there are not tapes of conversations as if he has been
:13:49. > :13:58.taping what is going on so he can use it against his enemies. That
:13:59. > :14:01.does reek of Richard Nixon. What is interesting, you see Trump doing
:14:02. > :14:13.what he wants, sacking the FBI director when he feels like it. It
:14:14. > :14:19.is just the norm to do that, there is the constraint. Back to the story
:14:20. > :14:24.in the Sun newspaper. In this campaign we will have figures that
:14:25. > :14:27.might be dodgy from politicians and forecasters. For a lot of people
:14:28. > :14:33.they feel their economy, in the weekly shopping basket, the sun on
:14:34. > :14:40.Sunday headlines warning an unexpected price hike in the bagging
:14:41. > :14:51.area. Reporting supermarkets raising prices of own brand products. This
:14:52. > :14:54.might have something to do with the slide in the value of sterling since
:14:55. > :15:00.Britain voted to leave the European Union. Or, supermarkets being
:15:01. > :15:02.generally naughty. A warning that the price of foodstuffs is going up
:15:03. > :15:18.quite a lot. Now, fizzy water. On the very few
:15:19. > :15:25.occasions I drink something nonalcoholic, I go for fizzy water.
:15:26. > :15:33.No, apparently fizzy water makes you fat. I cannot understand that. It's
:15:34. > :15:39.a weird thing. It's because the carbonation makes you want to eat
:15:40. > :15:45.more, it stimulates your appetite. Stick to the wine in future. Some
:15:46. > :15:48.people are still enjoying breakfast so we will leave it there. Thank you
:15:49. > :15:50.very much indeed. So we've been talking a lot
:15:51. > :15:53.about Labour, and we're joined by the Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily
:15:54. > :15:59.Thornberry. Good morning, in a few weeks' time
:16:00. > :16:04.you could be Foreign Secretary, will you at that point tell Donald Trump
:16:05. > :16:09.is not welcome here for a state visit? No, because he's been
:16:10. > :16:14.invited. I think it was a mistake to invite him quite as quickly as he
:16:15. > :16:20.was invited. Frankly Obama had to wait for years, I think it would
:16:21. > :16:27.have been better to see him settle down. Jeremy Corbyn himself said he
:16:28. > :16:31.was not welcome in Britain. Yes, I mean, it takes these things in
:16:32. > :16:34.stages. I think we have to welcome the American president to Britain
:16:35. > :16:39.and work with him. The difference I have is I would be prepared to stand
:16:40. > :16:45.up to him, I would be prepared to say sorry Mr President, you are
:16:46. > :16:49.wrong about that. You are doing the wrong thing. So you would have over
:16:50. > :16:56.here and then give him a scolding, he may not want to come under those
:16:57. > :17:03.circumstances. There we are. I also hear he doesn't want to share
:17:04. > :17:13.transport with Prince Charles because he doesn't agree with him on
:17:14. > :17:18.climate change. We cannot disinvite him once he's been invited because
:17:19. > :17:23.that would be to the detriment of our country. Use at Labour would not
:17:24. > :17:33.turn a blind eye to human rights abuses in, for instance, China, what
:17:34. > :17:43.does that mean? We should not be afraid to raise these issues,
:17:44. > :17:46.despite the fact we may be going for a trade deal with a particular
:17:47. > :17:50.country but we have to be clear about the things we disagree on the
:17:51. > :17:55.country with. I am very worried that when I see Theresa May going to the
:17:56. > :17:57.Gulf states for example and desperately after trade deals and so
:17:58. > :18:00.on, she doesn't raise the issue of Yemen, she doesn't raise the fact
:18:01. > :18:03.Saudi Arabia has been bombing weddings and funerals. Is your
:18:04. > :18:06.ethical foreign policy sufficiently ethical that if you raise these
:18:07. > :18:09.issues and you get given a dusty response or hostile response, and
:18:10. > :18:13.you actually stop trade deals happening, he would go as far as to
:18:14. > :18:19.endanger the involvement of the Chinese for instance? I'm not saying
:18:20. > :18:23.we are going to boycott China for heaven 's sake but there is a
:18:24. > :18:27.middleweight, through the sort of fawning, frankly, which I think we
:18:28. > :18:33.have seen Theresa May indulging in in relation to Donald Trump and the
:18:34. > :18:37.way we would approach things. Let me turn to Trident because you don't
:18:38. > :18:40.like the Trump Administration and yet we rely on the administration
:18:41. > :18:47.for close cooperation to make our Trident submarines work in terms of
:18:48. > :18:51.targeting and so forth. Do you withdraw that corporation? The most
:18:52. > :18:55.important part of our defence is Nato and that's partnership we have
:18:56. > :18:59.with America and the rest of our Nato allies and we are committed to
:19:00. > :19:05.that and we should be. We have been committed to Nato for a number of
:19:06. > :19:11.years, and we need to work collectively with Nato. So Nato is a
:19:12. > :19:18.crucial part of our negotiations? Yes. I ask because Jeremy Corbyn
:19:19. > :19:23.recently spoke directly about Nato. We, in the radical end, the left and
:19:24. > :19:27.the unions of the Labour Party have got to be realistic Nato is a major
:19:28. > :19:32.problem and a major difficulty and we have to campaign against Nato's
:19:33. > :19:39.power, influence and global reach because it is a danger to world
:19:40. > :19:45.peace and a danger to world security. Severities, will you
:19:46. > :19:52.campaign against Nato's world power? I think that is a quote from six
:19:53. > :19:55.years ago. Jeremy has been on a journey, to coin a phrase, and there
:19:56. > :20:01.have been a number of discussions and it is quite clear that the
:20:02. > :20:05.predominance of opinion, and you know, within the Labour Party, we
:20:06. > :20:09.are committed to Nato. The reality is we have been relying on our
:20:10. > :20:14.partnership in Nato, the way we have been buying things and committing
:20:15. > :20:19.things, if we were to pull out of Nato forces would be... For example,
:20:20. > :20:23.how would we get our forces off Salisbury Plain at the moment
:20:24. > :20:26.without the assistance of Nato? We don't have enough frigates to move
:20:27. > :20:31.them on to the continent of Europe if necessary if the Russians came
:20:32. > :20:38.rolling over the hill. Have you made these points to Jeremy Corbyn? Yes,
:20:39. > :20:44.I have. So you put him back in his box? Because he repeated those
:20:45. > :20:52.statements during the judicial campaign. I am telling you that the
:20:53. > :20:56.Labour Party's position is a clear one, and I am Shadow Foreign
:20:57. > :21:01.Secretary. This is someone who will be Prime Minister if you win the
:21:02. > :21:06.election, and he is saying Labour should campaign against Nato. If you
:21:07. > :21:10.heard what he said at Chatham House he did not say this. He is clear we
:21:11. > :21:22.have a commitment to Nato and that is that. So you can unsay these kind
:21:23. > :21:25.of things? You can change your mind. Will a Labour government in Britain
:21:26. > :21:31.engage with military operations without the support of the UN ever?
:21:32. > :21:35.We don't think it is right for there to be interventions in other
:21:36. > :21:40.countries without it being done on a multi-natural basis. We do not think
:21:41. > :21:44.it is right for Theresa May to give unconditional support to Donald
:21:45. > :21:48.Trump in bombing Syria. We don't think he should be encouraged to
:21:49. > :21:53.think it is right for him to behave unilaterally. We think it undermines
:21:54. > :21:58.the security of the world and the best way for the international
:21:59. > :22:06.community to proceed is by way of agreement. It means the UN Security
:22:07. > :22:13.Council? Yes. So is it right to give countries like China and Russia veto
:22:14. > :22:19.over any possibility of us using military action ever? It is
:22:20. > :22:24.difficult. On Kosovo for example the Russians were vetoing the use of
:22:25. > :22:26.military force in relation to Kosovo but there was international
:22:27. > :22:31.agreement that there should be action there with the exception of
:22:32. > :22:35.the Russians, and there was developed out of the doctrine of
:22:36. > :22:41.responsibility to protect so it was legal at that point of the an
:22:42. > :22:48.intervention. Robin Cook led the charge on that and he voted for
:22:49. > :22:53.that. He was developing a responsibility to protect doctrine.
:22:54. > :23:02.And Jeremy Corbyn spoke against that, who was right? I think Robin
:23:03. > :23:04.was right. Looking forward, do you think the Labour government would
:23:05. > :23:12.send the task force against the Falklands if there was a crisis
:23:13. > :23:16.there? Yes. Again, Jeremy Corbyn has said he would like to negotiate with
:23:17. > :23:21.the Argentina government over the future of the Falklands and I wonder
:23:22. > :23:24.if you would like to be part of that negotiations? If British citizens
:23:25. > :23:31.are being attacked, we defend them but we don't want to get into a
:23:32. > :23:35.position like the Conservatives, who seem to be so gung ho, we will on
:23:36. > :23:40.this and do that, no, you have to look at the alternatives first. In
:23:41. > :23:43.the end there is no settlement of international disputes without there
:23:44. > :23:49.being international agreement. Its question of how you get there
:23:50. > :23:54.fastest. Do you think there was an available compromise over the
:23:55. > :24:01.Falklands to be done? Acting so long as the people of the Falklands
:24:02. > :24:05.wished to remain British, they will remain British. There needs to be a
:24:06. > :24:09.future in terms of talking to neighbours of the Falklands and I
:24:10. > :24:12.think it is to the economic advantage of both that they are able
:24:13. > :24:17.to work more closely than they are at the moment but certainly not
:24:18. > :24:24.under the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. Again, "It seems
:24:25. > :24:30.to be ridiculous in the 21st century we get into conflict with the
:24:31. > :24:34.Falkland Islands... Lets bring about some sensible dialogue" Jeremy
:24:35. > :24:38.Corbyn says, so he's saying let's talk about the future of the
:24:39. > :24:44.Falkland Islands. I am quoting Jeremy Corbyn at you again and
:24:45. > :24:49.again. I don't see why I should disagree with that. You say this is
:24:50. > :24:56.what he says, and in fact he's saying something, I don't agree with
:24:57. > :25:00.you. Let's talk about the Robin Hood tax. Sadiq Khan, who is in charge of
:25:01. > :25:07.London, has called this madness and said if you continue with this
:25:08. > :25:15.countries will leave the UK and it's a really dangerous policy. Again, I
:25:16. > :25:21.don't think that is an exact quote. Madness is exact. At the moment we
:25:22. > :25:25.have a tax which applies when you buy stocks and shares, and at the
:25:26. > :25:30.moment some people who are called market-makers, if they buy these
:25:31. > :25:37.shares they don't pay the tax, I don't really understand why that is.
:25:38. > :25:43.Then the other thing is that we also think we should extend the tax to
:25:44. > :25:46.different types of instruments but such as derivatives because it is a
:25:47. > :25:49.kind of betting on the stock market and it will help stabilise the stock
:25:50. > :25:57.market. Many other countries want to do it. -- many other countries do
:25:58. > :26:01.it. Hillary Clinton wanted to do it if she was elected. Do you agree it
:26:02. > :26:06.should be done in coordination with other countries to avoid hedge fund
:26:07. > :26:13.managers moving to Paris or Dublin or wherever they want to move to?
:26:14. > :26:16.The House of Lords committee looked at any changes of behaviour and they
:26:17. > :26:21.said they didn't think it would be as drastic as some of the doomsayers
:26:22. > :26:28.say it will. In the end it is a question, I think, of tidying this
:26:29. > :26:32.tax up. It doesn't seem to be right that you can bet on a company's
:26:33. > :26:38.debts and not have to pay tax whereas if you want to invest in a
:26:39. > :26:42.company you have to pay tax. What you say to colleagues like Ben
:26:43. > :26:49.Bradshaw who are going round telling voters vote for me, that doesn't
:26:50. > :26:53.mean Labour government. There is a choice. We will either get a
:26:54. > :26:57.Conservative government or Labour government and that is the choice
:26:58. > :27:02.people have coming up in front of them. Our vision for Britain is an
:27:03. > :27:11.entirely different one to the Tories' and people need to accept
:27:12. > :27:15.that. You don't believe it is defeatist? We have another three
:27:16. > :27:20.weeks to go, everything is to play for. You can see the way in which on
:27:21. > :27:24.a day-to-day basis we are attracting more support. The things we came out
:27:25. > :27:29.with in the manifesto are enormously popular. We are giving the public
:27:30. > :27:36.answers to their problems. People need to look at what choice they
:27:37. > :27:40.have, not Theresa May's hair, not whether Jeremy Corbyn should shave,
:27:41. > :27:44.it's about which politicians can offer you what, what are the
:27:45. > :27:48.different futures Britain has and the Labour one is much more positive
:27:49. > :27:52.and in line with what the people want. It is also play Fox and I
:27:53. > :27:58.don't want to be defeatist. As to whether Jeremy Corbyn should shave,
:27:59. > :28:02.we can discuss that later because you will be joining us later on.
:28:03. > :28:07.Chaos and bluster all over the place.
:28:08. > :28:09.But, enough of that, it's time to go over to the weather
:28:10. > :28:16.The skyline behind me looks a little chaotic, and we will see some
:28:17. > :28:20.turbulence skies today with the showers, which are already turning
:28:21. > :28:25.thundery out west. This is the rain many in the east of work too, giving
:28:26. > :28:28.much-needed rain to the gardens, it is clearing out now and it's a
:28:29. > :28:32.lovely start of the day for many parts of the country. Much brighter
:28:33. > :28:36.skies across the east of Scotland, it will linger over the north of
:28:37. > :28:40.Scotland, but there will be a handful of heavy showers over the
:28:41. > :28:52.Grampian region, simile so with Northern Ireland, but equally
:28:53. > :28:54.lengthy spells of dry weather with strong sunshine in between. There
:28:55. > :28:57.will also be a scattering of showers across England and Wales, and the
:28:58. > :29:00.coast looks set to get the best of the sunshine. It will feel warm away
:29:01. > :29:03.from the showers which feel quite blustery at times. It will be chilly
:29:04. > :29:07.initially in eastern areas. More chaos as we head towards Monday
:29:08. > :29:14.morning, wind and rain to boot, and it is May. Some heavy rain across
:29:15. > :29:18.south-west Scotland, north-west England and Wales. Even rain further
:29:19. > :29:23.south and east. The consolation is it is mild so it is warm weather but
:29:24. > :29:28.the unsettled weather is due to search through midweek.
:29:29. > :29:30.Sir Michael Fallon, the Defence Secretary,
:29:31. > :29:33.has been used by the Prime Minister as her faithful attack dog so far
:29:34. > :29:38.He is not, I think it's fair to say, a massive fan of Jeremy Corbyn,
:29:39. > :29:40.but, of course, he has lots of questions to answer about
:29:41. > :29:43.the state of Britain's Armed Forces under the Conservatives.
:29:44. > :29:52.Welcome. In 2015 the Conservatives made a solemn promise about the size
:29:53. > :29:57.of the Armed Forces, can you remind of the promise. We said we would
:29:58. > :30:03.build the army up to eight 2000 by 20 20. What is the size of the Armed
:30:04. > :30:10.Forces? It is just over 79,000. You have not kept the promise? We have
:30:11. > :30:15.not got there yet. We said we would build up forces, including reserves
:30:16. > :30:19.to just over 30,000. The quote was, we will maintain the size of the
:30:20. > :30:24.regular armed services and not reduce the army to below 82000 and
:30:25. > :30:28.the current figure is 79,000, so you have broken that promise. We said we
:30:29. > :30:33.would do it over the parliament and we are spending a lot of money. You
:30:34. > :30:40.have reduce the Army. Increasing the size of the Army up to 2020, there
:30:41. > :30:45.are three years to go. We have recruitment campaigns, increasing
:30:46. > :30:48.the size of the Navy, the size of the Royal Air Force and we are
:30:49. > :30:52.determined to improve the offer we make to service men and women to
:30:53. > :30:56.attract the best of each generation to join. At the moment recruitment
:30:57. > :31:01.is going badly and you are not getting enough into the army, you
:31:02. > :31:13.were met to get 9500 in this year and it is 6000, you are going
:31:14. > :31:16.backwards. I do not accept that. We are getting people to join up. We
:31:17. > :31:18.have several years before we reach our target but we are spending more
:31:19. > :31:22.on the Armed Forces. The budget goes up every year and we are giving them
:31:23. > :31:28.the equipment they need. The figures, the target was 9580 to join
:31:29. > :31:32.last year and the figure you achieved was 6900. That is why top
:31:33. > :31:38.brass are worried about you and the army under you. We cannot force
:31:39. > :31:41.people to join, we do not have conscription, the Army has to
:31:42. > :31:46.compete with other sectors. So it was a silly promise? It was a
:31:47. > :31:50.promise over the parliament and we are only two years into the
:31:51. > :31:54.parliament and we are spending money on recruiting and giving the Armed
:31:55. > :32:01.Forces equipment they need. You have seen aircraft carriers being new
:32:02. > :32:06.frigates on the way, we are buying new aircraft, and investing in
:32:07. > :32:11.equipment they need. You said you will increase defence spending by
:32:12. > :32:15.nope .5% above inflation. How much does that cost? That costs roughly
:32:16. > :32:21.over the five years of the new parliament added to the two years of
:32:22. > :32:25.the last parliament giving the forces roughly ?1 billion more than
:32:26. > :32:29.if we had simply met the 2% target. The money comes from the growing
:32:30. > :32:34.economy and it was a commitment we made, choice to spend more on the
:32:35. > :32:41.health service and defence and we have reduce spending in other areas.
:32:42. > :32:45.So this is an underfunded commitment, you are going die in
:32:46. > :32:51.Abbott? It is funded. The money has to come from somewhere. Borrowing,
:32:52. > :32:55.taxes? Borrowing is slowly going to be reduced but it comes from a
:32:56. > :32:59.growing economy is the real answer, because we are running the economy
:33:00. > :33:04.efficiently and because the economy is growing, more people in work,
:33:05. > :33:08.more revenue coming in, and we can make choices, not wild spending and
:33:09. > :33:14.borrowing promises like labour but to spend more on the NHS and
:33:15. > :33:18.defence. That is the extra 1 billion. According to the Defence
:33:19. > :33:24.Select Committee and Times newspaper there is a black hole in your
:33:25. > :33:27.equipment budget of between 7.5 and ?10 million. We are planning the
:33:28. > :33:34.biggest equipment programme in generations. New aircraft carriers,
:33:35. > :33:43.frigates, maritime patrol aircraft, planes to go wander frigates,. -- to
:33:44. > :33:49.go on the frigates. That is a 10-year programme. Part of the cost
:33:50. > :33:54.has to come from efficiency savings, getting rid for example of land,
:33:55. > :34:01.barracks, buildings we do not need, being more efficient in the way we
:34:02. > :34:07.work. 7.3 billion over the 10-year period, over the five-year period,
:34:08. > :34:09.I'm sorry, of efficiency savings on top of savings already made which
:34:10. > :34:16.means if you have airfields you do not need you shut them down. You
:34:17. > :34:21.release them to housing. We have 60 airfields, we do not need 60. You
:34:22. > :34:25.have to be more efficient as a large organisation and look at ways of
:34:26. > :34:31.working. It is absolutely right to invest in that programme we have to
:34:32. > :34:35.reinvest efficiency savings we make. The big change is we keep all the
:34:36. > :34:40.efficiency savings. The Treasury does not take them back. You have
:34:41. > :34:45.not persuaded your top brass who wrote a letter to the Prime Minister
:34:46. > :34:49.recently. It says that your statements about the defence budget
:34:50. > :34:54.have been disingenuous quoting irrelevant financial statistics and
:34:55. > :34:59.they say, the government host of spending 2% of GDP on defence,
:35:00. > :35:06.widely criticised as a deception and the Armed Forces are having to seek
:35:07. > :35:11.damaging savings at a time when combat operations is increasing. The
:35:12. > :35:17.2% is not our figure, it is the Nato figure. The Secretary General of
:35:18. > :35:21.Nato was in London this week seeing myself on the Prime Minister and he
:35:22. > :35:28.confirmed publicly according to the Nato definitions, we are meeting 2%,
:35:29. > :35:32.almost 2.2%. It is other countries that are not spending up to the 2%
:35:33. > :35:36.and he confirmed our spending is defined according to Nato
:35:37. > :35:42.guidelines. These are former chiefs of defence staff. Have you ever met
:35:43. > :35:46.somebody covered in brass, a former defence chief who does not want more
:35:47. > :35:51.spending. They are passionate about defence and so am I and I am proud
:35:52. > :35:57.the budget is increasing this year. It was 35 billion last year and 36
:35:58. > :36:01.billion this year and will go up to 40 billion and we will invest the
:36:02. > :36:04.biggest equipment programme the Armed Forces have seen in
:36:05. > :36:09.generations and to do that we have to be more efficient about the way
:36:10. > :36:14.we work. What this government has not invested in his defences against
:36:15. > :36:19.cyber attack. You did not give the NHS the proper money to stop this
:36:20. > :36:24.cyber attack with terrible results. In the security review over a year
:36:25. > :36:30.and a few months ago we identified cyber threats is one of the three
:36:31. > :36:35.principal threats and set aside ?1.9 billion to protect us better against
:36:36. > :36:42.cyber and a chunk of that went to the NHS. You didn't pay for upgrades
:36:43. > :36:48.in 2015. We are spending around ?50 million on the NHS cyber systems to
:36:49. > :36:54.improve security and have encouraged NHS trusts to reduce exposure to the
:36:55. > :36:59.weakest systems, Windows XP. Less than 5% of the trusts use that
:37:00. > :37:02.system. There is money available to strengthen these systems. You did
:37:03. > :37:07.not pay for them to strengthen that system at the crucial moment in
:37:08. > :37:13.2015. It was an old system we did not want them to use. We warned them
:37:14. > :37:19.and we warned them again in the spring. We all have to work about
:37:20. > :37:24.this, the NHS wasn't particularly targeted. The same attacks were
:37:25. > :37:28.applied to Nissan and other areas of the economy and around the world. We
:37:29. > :37:35.are spending money on strengthening the cyber defence of hospital
:37:36. > :37:40.systems. Is it the case the nuclear, Trident submarines are using Windows
:37:41. > :37:44.XP? We never comment on different systems for reasons of security
:37:45. > :37:51.submarines use. Vanguard submarines, I can absolutely assure you are safe
:37:52. > :37:56.and operate in isolation went out on patrol. I have complete confidence
:37:57. > :38:00.in the nuclear deterrent. There is no possibility of a malware attack
:38:01. > :38:04.against the military? I can assure you the nuclear deterrent is
:38:05. > :38:10.protected. You used a strange phrase when you said in certain
:38:11. > :38:15.circumstances you thought we would use first strike in nuclear weapons.
:38:16. > :38:19.Can you explain them? The key to the nuclear deterrent is to leave
:38:20. > :38:23.uncertainty in the mind of any potential adversary, if he is
:38:24. > :38:28.looking at a country to attack, as to what response he can expect, to
:38:29. > :38:32.leave ambiguity in the mind of your enemy and that is why we never rule
:38:33. > :38:38.out whether we would apply first strike or not. You can imagine using
:38:39. > :38:44.nuclear weapons before anybody else? Will use them every day. Not like I
:38:45. > :38:48.am talking about. We use them as a deterrent. The job of the nuclear
:38:49. > :38:51.weapons is to deter and has done that successfully over 50 years
:38:52. > :38:55.since we have had the submarine fleet. You have been critical of
:38:56. > :39:03.labour on the nuclear issue and defence. They might say that the
:39:04. > :39:07.problem with your side is wanting to talk first bomb later but you always
:39:08. > :39:10.want to bomb first and talk later. Is there a single war since the
:39:11. > :39:18.Second World War you haven't been in favour of? When we voted on the Iraq
:39:19. > :39:22.War, we were under the impression given by... I voted for it, like a
:39:23. > :39:25.lot of MPs, because we were told there were weapons of mass
:39:26. > :39:33.destruction and it turned out their work. Do you regret voting? I regret
:39:34. > :39:37.on how it was embarked. I regret voting for it on the basis there
:39:38. > :39:41.were weapons of mass destruction. We were dealing with a dictator who
:39:42. > :39:44.invaded other countries and were part of an international coalition.
:39:45. > :39:50.The problem with Labour's approaches they are now saying they would never
:39:51. > :39:54.commit. Emily Thornberry suggested they might negotiate over the
:39:55. > :39:58.Falklands, which is shocking. You were in favour of using force in
:39:59. > :40:02.Libya. The foreign Select Committee report on what happened in Libya
:40:03. > :40:11.after the war you were keen on, it resulted in, it says, economic
:40:12. > :40:16.collapse, intertribal warfare, humanitarian and migrant crises,
:40:17. > :40:20.human rights violations and the spread of the daffy regime weapons
:40:21. > :40:24.and the growth of eyesore. In short it was a total disaster and you
:40:25. > :40:30.voted for it. The reason was to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe
:40:31. > :40:35.where an entire city was potentially going to be wiped out. You are
:40:36. > :40:39.right, when you intervene, we need to learn the lessons of these
:40:40. > :40:46.conflicts, there needs to be a proper plan for stabilisation, I
:40:47. > :40:51.have been working with others in the coalition. That we stabilise these
:40:52. > :40:56.areas and bring in security after the war is over to ensure the Sunni
:40:57. > :41:02.have a proper stake in the running of their country. You have launched
:41:03. > :41:05.a new council housing policy and there are two small gaps in the
:41:06. > :41:12.policy. How many houses, how much money? The money is coming from the
:41:13. > :41:17.1.4 billion earmarked for capital expenditure from the Autumn
:41:18. > :41:21.Statement. It is not new money. It is not new money but the amount of
:41:22. > :41:26.money for each council will depend on deals struck with Manchester,
:41:27. > :41:30.Birmingham, to get more social housing built in these areas of a
:41:31. > :41:35.high enough quality tenants will be able to buy. It is an attractive
:41:36. > :41:40.policy that will give people an alternative to waiting and waiting
:41:41. > :41:42.to get into a council house or flat. You and Emily Thornberry are coming
:41:43. > :41:44.back in a little while. Now, coming up later this morning,
:41:45. > :41:47.Andrew Neil will be talking to the Shadow Business Secretary,
:41:48. > :41:49.Rebecca Long Bailey about Labour's plan for a "Robin Hood tax"
:41:50. > :41:52.and he'll be joined by That's the Sunday Politics
:41:53. > :41:59.at 11 here on BBC One. Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland's First
:42:00. > :42:02.Minister and the leader of the Scottish nationalists, made
:42:03. > :42:05.it absolutely clear at the beginning of the campaign what she thought
:42:06. > :42:08.it was all about - independence, she said
:42:09. > :42:10.was at the heart of this election. And she's with me
:42:11. > :42:19.here in the studio. In an independent Scotland, will
:42:20. > :42:24.children be better able to be done by then they are now? Regardless of
:42:25. > :42:29.whether or not in a future Scotland becomes independent, in Scotland now
:42:30. > :42:33.we are focusing on improving standards in education. If we look
:42:34. > :42:37.at the system we have expanded early years education and have a new
:42:38. > :42:43.curriculum that has been praised by the OECD, we have record numbers of
:42:44. > :42:47.young people leaving school with higher passes, advanced higher
:42:48. > :42:54.passes and going into further education, training or employment.
:42:55. > :42:56.We have identified an issue with literacy and new Morrissey and are
:42:57. > :43:03.determined to accelerate progress in closing the attainment gap. On
:43:04. > :43:09.literacy your record is terrible. Your own government figures show you
:43:10. > :43:14.have among 13 and 14-year-olds, less than half performing well in reading
:43:15. > :43:19.and writing and that has gone down in just a few years under the SNP. I
:43:20. > :43:26.have been open it is not good enough but to put it into context, we have
:43:27. > :43:28.a survey that measures pupils in the second year of secondary school
:43:29. > :43:32.against standards expected to achieve in the third year of
:43:33. > :43:36.secondary school. We have other information that shows by the time
:43:37. > :43:43.young people are in third year, more than 80% reach the required level.
:43:44. > :43:47.We have a new curriculum in place, which has been praised by the OECD
:43:48. > :43:54.which have made recommendations on how to improve teaching. We have a
:43:55. > :43:57.national improvement framework and attainment challenge and fund
:43:58. > :44:02.putting in extra resources. Frameworks and challenges, do you
:44:03. > :44:09.know what is going on in Scottish schools? We have had advice the new
:44:10. > :44:13.curriculum for excellence, it is about educating young people to be
:44:14. > :44:20.good citizens, not to just absorb facts and figures. To encourage
:44:21. > :44:23.young people not just to absorb facts and figures but to analyse
:44:24. > :44:27.that and make sense of the world they live in, it is the right thing
:44:28. > :44:32.to do. We have advice we need to have more of a focus in that
:44:33. > :44:36.curriculum on literacy and numeracy, which we are doing and have
:44:37. > :44:42.introduced new benchmarks. Benchmarks and all the rest of it,
:44:43. > :44:47.but under the SNP things have got worse and dramatically so. I would
:44:48. > :44:52.challenge that in terms of general performance in education. Literacy,
:44:53. > :44:55.there is no question... I am not denying that in terms of literacy
:44:56. > :45:00.and numerous sea and I am telling you what we are doing to address
:45:01. > :45:11.that -- new Morrissey. We have increase the budget by ?120 million,
:45:12. > :45:16.money going to head teachers giving them the ability to invest in
:45:17. > :45:18.measures they think will improve. You are 700 teachers short at the
:45:19. > :45:27.moment. Teaching recruitment is a challenge
:45:28. > :45:30.in many countries which is why we are looking at different ways to
:45:31. > :45:36.bring different kinds of people into teaching. We are trying to encourage
:45:37. > :45:45.retired teachers to come back into teaching. If you pay them more, that
:45:46. > :45:48.might help. We have negotiations with the union about pay, that is
:45:49. > :45:54.one of the issues we have always got to keep in mind. But we also need to
:45:55. > :45:58.be frank about the challenges in education, some of them are not
:45:59. > :46:00.unique to Scotland but we have to recognise the fundamentals of
:46:01. > :46:06.Scottish education in many respects are very strong. We now have record
:46:07. > :46:11.numbers of young people coming out of our schools with high and
:46:12. > :46:15.advanced higher passes and going to positive destinations so I'm focused
:46:16. > :46:18.on improving these areas we need to improve but also making sure we
:46:19. > :46:23.don't do a disservice to teachers and pupils across the country by
:46:24. > :46:28.saying everything about Scottish education is bad because
:46:29. > :46:34.emphatically is not. Let's return to what you said about the independence
:46:35. > :46:38.blueprint in 2013, use of Scottish pupils outperform the OECD average
:46:39. > :46:43.in reading and science, latest results show we have halted a period
:46:44. > :46:48.of relative international decline since 2000. What has happened since
:46:49. > :46:57.then? I'm not going to sit here and tonight that, we have the Pisa
:46:58. > :47:01.study, we also have one that was published last week, a sample survey
:47:02. > :47:05.that looks at small numbers of pupils. One of the things we have
:47:06. > :47:09.done is introduced the national improvement framework... You didn't
:47:10. > :47:14.challenge the rankings when they were going well for you, you cannot
:47:15. > :47:21.challenge them now they are going badly for you. I didn't challenge
:47:22. > :47:27.them. I know how important a good education was for me, I want young
:47:28. > :47:32.people to get the best education, the vast majority do but there are
:47:33. > :47:36.areas we need to do better. Scotland used to be one of the best educated
:47:37. > :47:43.countries in the world, and you have all the powers to change this, and
:47:44. > :47:47.yet things are going backwards. On literacy and numerous aches have a
:47:48. > :47:54.challenge but in many other areas, that is not true. I think you are
:47:55. > :47:57.trying to conduct this interview on the basis I'm being defensive, I am
:47:58. > :48:01.not being defensive, I readily accept the areas we need to do
:48:02. > :48:05.better and that's why we have put such effort into the initiatives and
:48:06. > :48:09.reforms that we are taking forward. The point I was going to make
:48:10. > :48:14.earlier and didn't get the chance to finish is that we are reducing more
:48:15. > :48:17.transparency so that I can be held more to account. Instead of sample
:48:18. > :48:25.surveys, we have information on every pupil in Scotland at the
:48:26. > :48:29.required levels, broken down school by school so there will be no hiding
:48:30. > :48:33.place for any politician. And you said not so long ago you want to be
:48:34. > :48:41.judged by this and your neck would be on the line. You are looking a
:48:42. > :48:46.little Mary Queen of Scots. I don't wish to be Mary Queen of Scots. I
:48:47. > :48:54.said I wanted this to be the defining priority of how ever many
:48:55. > :48:58.years I am the Scottish First Minister. We are talking about
:48:59. > :49:03.literacy and numerous it, the other big challenge we have is to close
:49:04. > :49:11.the attainment gap between the richest and poorest young people. We
:49:12. > :49:18.don't measure it in the same way, we have had a discussion about
:49:19. > :49:21.university entrance before, I'm not sitting here making those
:49:22. > :49:26.comparisons, I want Scotland to be its best on its own terms. Is it a
:49:27. > :49:34.scandal if nurses have to use food banks because of their low pay? Yes.
:49:35. > :49:38.That is happening in Scotland, and again you have the power as the
:49:39. > :49:44.Scottish Parliament to set public sector pay. Could raise taxes and
:49:45. > :49:53.pay them properly, why don't you? Let me set out what happens with
:49:54. > :49:56.nurses' Perry, the independent review body makes recommendations.
:49:57. > :50:00.The Scottish Government has always accepted those recommendations,
:50:01. > :50:10.unlike the Westminster government. We have had a period of pay
:50:11. > :50:15.restraint... They have lost 14% real value and you could correct this. We
:50:16. > :50:20.will work with the pay review body to make sure nurses get the pay they
:50:21. > :50:26.deserve. The Royal College of Nursing is now talking about strike
:50:27. > :50:29.action. We work through the pay review body, we have agreed with the
:50:30. > :50:35.unions we will jointly commissioned some research but there another
:50:36. > :50:40.important point. Because of the commitment we gave that nurses would
:50:41. > :50:45.always get their entitlement to progression, and newly qualified
:50:46. > :50:53.nurse in Scotland is paid ?300 more than a newly qualified nurse in
:50:54. > :50:57.England. We have also protected the nurse bursary and we are not asking
:50:58. > :51:01.students to pay tuition fees so it is tough for nurses but we have done
:51:02. > :51:06.far more than any other government in the UK to protect the pay of
:51:07. > :51:11.nurses. You have said independence is at the heart of this choice and
:51:12. > :51:15.talked about material changes. You watch the way public opinion is
:51:16. > :51:20.going in Scotland. If the Conservatives move ahead and you
:51:21. > :51:27.fall back on this election, is that not material change? Let's wait and
:51:28. > :51:31.see who wins the election. For me, this is a question of at the end of
:51:32. > :51:36.the Brexit process, does Scotland get a choice about our future? The
:51:37. > :51:41.position of the Tories and Labour UK wide is that no matter how badly the
:51:42. > :51:45.Brexit negotiations go, people should have to like it or lump it. I
:51:46. > :51:52.believe people in Scotland should have a choice about our own future
:51:53. > :51:56.but there is a more immediate priority... After we have left or
:51:57. > :52:02.before we have left? At the end of the process when the terms of Brexit
:52:03. > :52:05.are clear. In this election there is a more immediate priority and
:52:06. > :52:11.opportunity for Scotland and it's about making sure our voice is heard
:52:12. > :52:14.in the Brexit negotiations. It is an important point because there was a
:52:15. > :52:20.lot of concern even among some people who voted to leave that we
:52:21. > :52:25.are headed down the road of a very extreme Brexit. Proposals would have
:52:26. > :52:30.protected our place in the single market, the Prime Minister dismissed
:52:31. > :52:39.them out of hand. Because they were impractical... She didn't look at
:52:40. > :52:44.them seriously, so this gives a chance. My message on Brexit is
:52:45. > :52:49.whether you voted to leave or remain, if you vote SNP you are
:52:50. > :52:58.strengthening my hand to make sure Scotland's voice is heard in these
:52:59. > :53:02.negotiations and our economy. A lot of us voters voted to leave the EU,
:53:03. > :53:06.you have always said in the past Scotland must be a full member of
:53:07. > :53:17.the EU after independence and it has been suggested by some people that
:53:18. > :53:24.you may move on that. Our position always has been that we want
:53:25. > :53:31.Scotland to be a full member of the European Union... Including the
:53:32. > :53:36.euro? We don't want to go into the euro, no country can be forced to do
:53:37. > :53:42.that Sweden is an example of that. The majority in Scotland voted to
:53:43. > :53:48.remain, some voted leave, so we try to see if there was compromise
:53:49. > :53:54.ground and put forward proposals to leave the EU as part of the UK but
:53:55. > :54:02.protect our single market position. Would an independent Scottish
:54:03. > :54:12.membership of Efta the unacceptable compromise?
:54:13. > :54:15.We have to set out the process for regaining or retaining, depending
:54:16. > :54:24.where we are in the Brexit process, EU membership. It may be that we
:54:25. > :54:30.have a phased approach to that... Efta first, EU later kind of thing?
:54:31. > :54:33.We have to state that at the time because there are many uncertainties
:54:34. > :54:36.around the process but in this election, if we want to have a
:54:37. > :54:42.chance of protecting our place in the single market, then vote SNP to
:54:43. > :54:45.strengthen our hand. You got the line out in the end there. Thanks
:54:46. > :54:47.for joining us. Now a look at what's coming up
:54:48. > :54:55.straight after this programme. At ten o'clock we will be debating
:54:56. > :55:08.life's to inevitability is, tax and death. We ask, do we have a right
:55:09. > :55:14.not to be offended? And is easier to face death if you in God?
:55:15. > :55:22.So Michael Fallon and Emily Thornberry are back with me. Emily
:55:23. > :55:25.Thornberry, there has been a lot of attacks on your party's patria to
:55:26. > :55:30.some over the last few weeks and there is another story in the papers
:55:31. > :55:33.today about Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA. What is your message to
:55:34. > :55:38.working-class voters who look at this stuff and say, I just don't
:55:39. > :55:42.like it? There were negotiations going on behind the scenes and
:55:43. > :55:47.people speaking openly. This is something which has been known for
:55:48. > :55:50.30 years and it has been dragged up at this particular time because of
:55:51. > :55:59.the general election. Not surprising. I understand that, and
:56:00. > :56:06.if you judge people by who it is you spend time with, the question is do
:56:07. > :56:12.you have to be -- do your underwear you work on the 27th of May 2007?
:56:13. > :56:20.You were celebrating the real action of President Assad -- re-election.
:56:21. > :56:23.I'm not going to judge you on that and I don't think people should
:56:24. > :56:27.judge Jeremy by trying to talk to people who might be open to a
:56:28. > :56:31.settlement in Northern Ireland. There was a little bit of a
:56:32. > :56:39.difference. I was a Parliamentary all-party visit to Syria in 2007,
:56:40. > :56:44.MPs have gone every year to Syria during the better times. I remember
:56:45. > :56:52.a fact-finding visit to Syria that happened every year with MPs going
:56:53. > :56:59.out there... Did you meet Assad while you were there? Shake his
:57:00. > :57:04.hand? Did you celebrate his re-election? It was ten years ago,
:57:05. > :57:08.we had a different relationship with him then. There is a huge difference
:57:09. > :57:15.to speaking to foreign leaders, and I speak to them all the time, and
:57:16. > :57:21.Jeremy Corbyn's open support for the IRA. You cannot go around making
:57:22. > :57:25.this stuff up. There is an election on and people need to make decisions
:57:26. > :57:34.on the basis of the truth. You have said I want to negotiate the future
:57:35. > :57:41.of the Falklands, that is... It is untrue! 20 minutes ago you implied
:57:42. > :57:46.sitting there... You cannot make this up as you go along. People need
:57:47. > :57:50.to make decisions based on facts and information, proper information, and
:57:51. > :57:53.it is not right for you to go around slinging dead cats the way you do.
:57:54. > :57:59.People need to concentrate because there is a serious choice to be
:58:00. > :58:05.made. Your excuse is Jeremy Corbyn is on some kind of journey, well
:58:06. > :58:11.that is too great a risk for this country. In relation to Nato there
:58:12. > :58:16.has been a change and we are clear. Can I ask you both about the word
:58:17. > :58:21.being used again and again - landslide. Tom Watson said if things
:58:22. > :58:24.don't change the Conservatives are on course for a Thatcher style
:58:25. > :58:31.landslide, why do you think he said that? I suppose he may have been
:58:32. > :58:34.distracted by the polls, but they have not been terribly reliable
:58:35. > :58:39.until now and we have another three weeks. We will be out there putting
:58:40. > :58:46.out the message and the truth about what Labour stand for. Michael
:58:47. > :58:49.Fallon, are you heading for landslide do you think? It is far
:58:50. > :58:59.too early to start predicting the result of this election. We are
:59:00. > :59:04.going for a stronger majority... You nearly said strong and stable! Thank
:59:05. > :59:06.you, that is all we have time for this Sunday.
:59:07. > :59:09.We'll be back the same time next week, when our guests
:59:10. > :59:11.will include Ukip's leader, Paul Nuttall.