Nicola Sturgeon

:00:17. > :00:21.Scotland's First Minister and leader of the Scottish Nationalists made it

:00:22. > :00:23.absolutely clear at the start of the campaign for cheap product was all

:00:24. > :00:27.about, independence was a part of the election and she is with me now.

:00:28. > :00:31.Nicola Sturgeon, and that independent Scotland will children

:00:32. > :00:36.be better able to read and write than they are now. Regardless of

:00:37. > :00:40.whether or not Scotland becomes independent, in Scotland right now

:00:41. > :00:44.we are focusing on improving education standards. Look at the

:00:45. > :00:50.education system, we've expanded early years education, have a new

:00:51. > :00:54.school curriculum in place praised by the OECD, record numbers of young

:00:55. > :00:57.people leaving school with higher passes and advanced higher passes

:00:58. > :01:02.and going into further education on training or employment. We

:01:03. > :01:06.identified a particular issue with literacy and numerous and we are

:01:07. > :01:09.determined to accelerate the progress into using the attainment

:01:10. > :01:15.gap, we have a massive programme of reform under way to do that. On

:01:16. > :01:21.literacy, your record is terrible, your own government figures show

:01:22. > :01:24.among 13 and 14-year-olds, less than half are not performing well in

:01:25. > :01:29.reading and writing, that's gone down from 70% in a few years under

:01:30. > :01:34.the SNP. I've been very open that's not good enough but to put it into

:01:35. > :01:37.context, we have a survey that measures pupils in the second year

:01:38. > :01:41.of secondary school but measures than against the standards they are

:01:42. > :01:45.expected to achieve in the third year of secondary school and we have

:01:46. > :01:48.other information that shows by the time young people are in the third

:01:49. > :01:54.year more than 80% are reaching the required level but we have a new

:01:55. > :01:57.curriculum in place, the curriculum for excellence praised by the OECD

:01:58. > :02:02.but they've made recommendations to us about how we improve teaching of

:02:03. > :02:05.literacy and numerous. Right now we have the national improvement

:02:06. > :02:11.framework, attainment challenge and an attainment fund putting in extra

:02:12. > :02:14.resources to education. Frameworks and challenges and funds, do you

:02:15. > :02:18.know what is going wrong? We've had advised the new curriculum for

:02:19. > :02:24.excellence which I'm sure you're familiar with is about educating

:02:25. > :02:28.young people to be good citizens, do not just absorb facts and figures...

:02:29. > :02:33.I'm coming to accept the point, to encourage young people not just to

:02:34. > :02:36.absorb facts and figures but analyse it and make sense of the world they

:02:37. > :02:41.live in. It's the right thing to do but we have had advice we need to

:02:42. > :02:44.have or are they focus within the curriculum on literacy and numerous

:02:45. > :02:48.and that's what we are doing. We've introduced benchmarks for the

:02:49. > :02:52.teaching of literacy and numerous, I'm interested... Benchmarks and all

:02:53. > :02:56.the rest of it but under the SNP things have got worse and quite

:02:57. > :03:00.dramatically. I would challenge that in terms of the general performance

:03:01. > :03:04.of education, I look at it... On literacy, personal question. I'm not

:03:05. > :03:09.denying that in terms of literacy and numerous and telling you for

:03:10. > :03:12.doing to address it and use a frameworks and benchmarks, I look at

:03:13. > :03:18.the debate in England about falling budgets in schools, we've taken a

:03:19. > :03:21.decision to increase the budget schools have I100 and ?20 million,

:03:22. > :03:26.money going directly to headteachers giving them the ability to invest in

:03:27. > :03:32.measures they think will improve literacy and numerous it. You are

:03:33. > :03:35.700 teachers short. Teacher recruitment is a challenge not just

:03:36. > :03:40.in Scotland but in many countries and we are increasing teacher

:03:41. > :03:44.intake, the DTC in Scotland is thinking of different ways to bring

:03:45. > :03:48.different people into teaching, trying to encourage retired teachers

:03:49. > :03:53.to come back into teaching and I've been frank about that. Would you pay

:03:54. > :03:57.them more? We have negotiations with teaching unions about pay and

:03:58. > :04:03.conditions of teachers, that's one of the issues we've always got to

:04:04. > :04:06.keep in mind. But we need to be both frank about the challenges we have

:04:07. > :04:10.an education, some of them not unique to Scotland but we have to

:04:11. > :04:13.recognise the fundamentals of Scottish education in many respects

:04:14. > :04:18.are very strong and I repeat, we have record numbers of young people

:04:19. > :04:22.coming out of schools with higher and advanced higher passes and going

:04:23. > :04:25.into what we call positive destinations. I'm focused on

:04:26. > :04:31.improving these areas we need to improve also making sure we don't do

:04:32. > :04:35.a disservice to teachers and pupils across the country is seen

:04:36. > :04:38.everything about Scottish education is bad because emphatically it's

:04:39. > :04:44.not. Let's return to what you said in the independence blueprint in

:04:45. > :04:47.23rd team about the OECD rankings, you said Scottish pupils are

:04:48. > :04:51.performed the OECD average in reading and science, the latest

:04:52. > :04:54.results show we have halted a period of relative international decline

:04:55. > :04:59.since 2000, can you tell me what happened? We've seen that situation

:05:00. > :05:04.not as good as we wanted to be, Andrew, are not going to sit here

:05:05. > :05:08.and deny that, we have a study and SS L M, a study the latest version

:05:09. > :05:12.of which was published last week come it's a Sample survey and it

:05:13. > :05:16.looks quite small numbers of pupils, one of the things we've done is

:05:17. > :05:21.introduced the national improvement framework... Didn't challenge the

:05:22. > :05:24.rankings when they are going well, you can hardly challenge them when

:05:25. > :05:29.they are going badly. I didn't challenge them. I said this many

:05:30. > :05:32.times before, I know how important a good education has been to me in my

:05:33. > :05:36.life and I want every young person in Scotland to have the best

:05:37. > :05:38.education and the vast majority of young people in Scotland get the

:05:39. > :05:42.best of education but there are areas we need to do better and I'm

:05:43. > :05:46.not shying away from that. Under the SNP something serious is gone wrong,

:05:47. > :05:50.Scotland used to be one of the best educated countries in the world. In

:05:51. > :05:54.many respects it still is. You have the power to change this and things

:05:55. > :05:57.are going badly. On that is the numerous things are going badly but

:05:58. > :06:01.in many other measures of Scottish education is not true, we are not

:06:02. > :06:04.going backwards. Literacy and numerous ER important. You are

:06:05. > :06:09.trying to conduct this interview on the basis I'm being defensive, I'm

:06:10. > :06:14.not, I absolutely readily accept the areas we need to do better, that's

:06:15. > :06:17.why we've put effort into the initiatives and reforms we are

:06:18. > :06:20.taking forward and the point I was going to make earlier which I didn't

:06:21. > :06:24.get the chance to finish is that we are actually introducing more

:06:25. > :06:28.transparency so I can be held more accountable so instead of Sample

:06:29. > :06:33.surveys like the ones we have we will have information on every pupil

:06:34. > :06:37.in Scotland at the required levels, broken down, not just by local

:06:38. > :06:41.authority but school by school, there'll be no hiding place any

:06:42. > :06:46.politician. You said not so long ago you want to be judged by this Andrew

:06:47. > :06:50.Nick Wood be on the line. You were looking a little like Mary Queen of

:06:51. > :06:54.Scots. I don't wish to be Mary Queen of Scots, I've been First Minister

:06:55. > :06:58.for two and a half years and I said when I became First Minister that

:06:59. > :07:02.this would be the defining priority of how many years I am First

:07:03. > :07:05.Minister and I hope that so why the time we are at the next Scottish

:07:06. > :07:09.election I want to see improvement and we are talking about literacy

:07:10. > :07:12.and numerous, the other big challenge rehab in Scotland which is

:07:13. > :07:16.not unique to Scotland is to close the attainment gap between the

:07:17. > :07:20.richest and young people and we are very focused on that. On some

:07:21. > :07:24.measures, we don't measure it in exactly the same way, you and I have

:07:25. > :07:27.had the discussion about University entrance before and the measurements

:07:28. > :07:30.are different in Scotland and England but I'm not sitting here

:07:31. > :07:34.wanting to make comparisons, I want Scotland to be the best on its own

:07:35. > :07:38.terms. Let's move another aspect of domestic policy, is a discount

:07:39. > :07:45.versus have to use the bags because of poor pay? Yes. That's happening

:07:46. > :07:48.in Scotland according to the RCN spokesperson, it's happening in

:07:49. > :07:51.Scotland and you have the power of the Scottish Parliament to set

:07:52. > :07:57.public sector pay you can raise taxes and pay Scottish nurses

:07:58. > :08:00.properly. We have work to tackle, I am going to set out what happens

:08:01. > :08:05.with nursing pay and it's the same in the rest of the UK, we have the

:08:06. > :08:08.independent pay review body and makes recommendations, the Scottish

:08:09. > :08:11.Government on like the Westminster government has accepted those

:08:12. > :08:14.recommendations, we have had a period of pay restraint in the

:08:15. > :08:20.public sector because of the determination to detect... They've

:08:21. > :08:23.lost 14% in terms over the past period and you can correct this. We

:08:24. > :08:28.will continue to work through the pay review body to make sure nurses

:08:29. > :08:33.get the pay they deserve, I except... Your post higher pay for

:08:34. > :08:37.nurses. We didn't... The Royal College of Nursing is talking about

:08:38. > :08:41.strike action. Let me set this up, we work through the pay review body,

:08:42. > :08:43.we've agreed with the unions we will commission research but there is

:08:44. > :08:47.another important point, because of the action we took in Scotland on

:08:48. > :08:51.low pay and because of the commit and we gave nurses would always get

:08:52. > :08:57.the entitlement to progression, a newly qualified nurse in Scotland is

:08:58. > :09:01.paid ?300 more than a newly qualified nurse in England, somebody

:09:02. > :09:05.at the bottom level of the agenda for change of smaller than that, we

:09:06. > :09:08.protect the nurse bursary and for not asking students to pay tuition

:09:09. > :09:12.fees so it's tough for nurses out there but we have done far more than

:09:13. > :09:18.any other government in the UK to try and protect the pay of nurses.

:09:19. > :09:24.You have said that independence is at the heart of this choice and you

:09:25. > :09:27.have talked a lot about material changes. You have watched the way

:09:28. > :09:31.that public opinion is going in Scotland. If the Conservatives move

:09:32. > :09:36.ahead and you fall back in this election, isn't that the material

:09:37. > :09:42.change? Let's see who wins the election in Scotland? Can I set out

:09:43. > :09:45.my position? This is important. For me it is a question of whether at

:09:46. > :09:50.the end of the Brexit process, Scotland get a choice about their

:09:51. > :09:56.future. The position of the Tories and UK wide, no matter how badly

:09:57. > :10:00.Brexit negotiations go, people have got to like it or lump it and I

:10:01. > :10:04.don't agree with that and people in Scotland should have another choice

:10:05. > :10:08.about their future. After we have left or before we have left? At the

:10:09. > :10:12.end of the process, when the terms of Brexit are clear and people can

:10:13. > :10:16.compare that with the terms and applications of independence. In

:10:17. > :10:19.this election, there is a more immediate priority and opportunity

:10:20. > :10:23.for Scotland and that is making sure our voice is heard in the Brexit

:10:24. > :10:27.negotiations. That is an important point. There is a lot of concern

:10:28. > :10:32.even among some people who voted to leave that we are heading down the

:10:33. > :10:35.road of a very extreme Brexit. The Scottish Government previously

:10:36. > :10:38.published proposals that would have accepted leaving the EU but

:10:39. > :10:42.protected our place in the single market, and the Prime Minister

:10:43. > :10:46.dismissed those proposals out of hand. She thought it was

:10:47. > :10:49.impractical. She didn't look at them seriously. This election gives the

:10:50. > :10:54.Scottish people the chance to give democratic legitimacy to those

:10:55. > :11:00.proposals. Whether you voted leave remain, whether you will yes or no

:11:01. > :11:04.in 2014, if you vote SNP, you are strengthening my hand to make sure

:11:05. > :11:07.Scotland's voices heard in these negotiations and we don't sacrifice

:11:08. > :11:12.jobs and our economy and we can arrest the case with Scotland's

:11:13. > :11:15.place in the single market. A lot of SNP voters voted to leave the EU.

:11:16. > :11:19.You have said in a past that Scotland must be a full member of

:11:20. > :11:31.the EU after independence and it has been suggested by some people that

:11:32. > :11:36.EFTA would be all right. Our position continues to be that we

:11:37. > :11:39.want Scotland to be a full member of the European Union. We don't want to

:11:40. > :11:44.go into the Euro and no member of the EU can be forced into the Euro

:11:45. > :11:50.and Sweden is one example of that. What we did at the end of last year

:11:51. > :11:52.would recognise... The majority of Scotland voted remain and some voted

:11:53. > :11:57.leave and Scotland voted differently to England, though we try to see if

:11:58. > :12:00.there was compromise ground and we put forward proposals that would

:12:01. > :12:06.have accepted that we were leaving the EU as part of UK that try to

:12:07. > :12:11.protect single market. And I ask you, yes or no, with independent

:12:12. > :12:16.Scottish membership EFTA be unacceptable, mice in these

:12:17. > :12:21.circumstances, yes or no? My position is that I want Scotland to

:12:22. > :12:27.be in the EU. If we have an independence referendum, we would

:12:28. > :12:29.set out the process of regaining or retaining EU membership depending

:12:30. > :12:35.where we are in the Brexit process. It might be that we have a phased

:12:36. > :12:41.approach to that by necessity. EFTA first? By necessity. We have got to

:12:42. > :12:45.stipulate that at the time because there are still many uncertainties

:12:46. > :12:49.behind the Brexit process. In this election, if we want to have a

:12:50. > :12:53.chance of protecting our place in the single market, on which 80,000

:12:54. > :12:57.Scottish jobs depend, vote SNP to strengthen our hand. You got that

:12:58. > :13:06.line out at the end. Thank you for joining us in the studio in London.

:13:07. > :13:11.The 2017 general election is upon us. Everyday BBC Parliament will

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