:00:00. > :00:07.Most of Britain is baking, and in the capital,
:00:08. > :00:13.In the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire,
:00:14. > :00:16.and just ahead of the formal beginning of Brexit talks.
:00:17. > :00:18.This morning's papers are, frankly, menacing for the Prime Minister.
:00:19. > :00:21.The sense of political crisis which followed the election result
:00:22. > :00:48.Trying to steady her ship, the Prime Minsiter has issued
:00:49. > :00:55.an apology after the fire - "the response was not good enough".
:00:56. > :00:58.This morning the Chancellor, Philip Hammond, is here to talk
:00:59. > :01:01.about that and what he wants from the Brexit negotiations.
:01:02. > :01:04.But the kind of deal we do with the EU may now depend as well
:01:05. > :01:10.Labour's Brexit spokesman, Keir Starmer, is with me too.
:01:11. > :01:13.Also, here are two people fighting for justice for the victims
:01:14. > :01:18.Pilgrim Tucker, a community activist, and Randa El-Daouk,
:01:19. > :01:21.a friend of Mohammad al-Haj Ali - the Syrian refugee who was the first
:01:22. > :01:28.Reviewing the news this morning - Faiza Shaheen, director
:01:29. > :01:32.of the left-wing think tank Class, the commentator and LBC
:01:33. > :01:36.presenter Iain Dale, and the BBC's own Victoria
:01:37. > :01:38.Derbyshire, who reported all week from Grenfell Tower.
:01:39. > :01:41.All that after the news, read for us this morning by Roger Johnson.
:01:42. > :01:45.Church services will be held today to remember the victims
:01:46. > :01:48.of the Grenfell Tower fire in West London.
:01:49. > :01:54.Police have revealed that 58 people are missing
:01:55. > :01:56.and are believed to have died - but that that figure
:01:57. > :01:59.Yesterday, Theresa May met with volunteers
:02:00. > :02:02.Government staff have now been drafted in to improve
:02:03. > :02:05.the response to the disaster, as Nick Quraishi reports.
:02:06. > :02:08.The devastation caused by the inferno stops
:02:09. > :02:19.The dark reality abundantly clear in broad daylight.
:02:20. > :02:22.Four days on, the community is still angry about a lack of co-ordination,
:02:23. > :02:25.It's always the public that runs to the rescue.
:02:26. > :02:32.Residents, community leaders and volunteers
:02:33. > :02:34.took their frustrations to Downing Street, spending two
:02:35. > :02:40.It was a robust discussion, there was forceful emotion
:02:41. > :02:43.in the room, people were able to say what they wanted to say
:02:44. > :02:46.and we felt that was listened to and listened to carefully.
:02:47. > :02:49.Theresa May, who has come in for widespread personal criticism
:02:50. > :02:55.over her handling of the crisis, said she'd heard the concerns.
:02:56. > :03:11.drafted in to help Kensington and Chelsea Council cope
:03:12. > :03:16.with the response and the Red Cross will provide psychological support.
:03:17. > :03:19.As people wait and pray for the missing, church services
:03:20. > :03:27.today will remember those who didn't make it out of Grenfell Tower.
:03:28. > :03:29.A reminder of the complex and lengthy process of recovering
:03:30. > :03:40.Meanwhile, the Home Office says it's making arrangements for the family
:03:41. > :03:42.of Mohammed Al-hajali - the first named victim of the fire -
:03:43. > :03:55.to travel from Syria to the UK for his funeral.
:03:56. > :03:56.The 23-year-old, a civil engineering student,
:03:57. > :03:58.became separated from his older brother, Omar, who escaped
:03:59. > :04:05.More than 78,000 people had signed a petition
:04:06. > :04:07.calling for their parents to be granted visas.
:04:08. > :04:09.And, Andrew will be talking to a close friend
:04:10. > :04:13.A new report has highlighted the UK's growing wealth inequality,
:04:14. > :04:16.estimating that one per cent of the population owns 14 per cent
:04:17. > :04:18.of its total assets, worth about 11 trillion pounds.
:04:19. > :04:20.The government has responded to the findings
:04:21. > :04:22.by the Resolution Foundation by insisting that income inequality
:04:23. > :04:27.is at its lowest level since the mid-1980s.
:04:28. > :04:34.At least 39 have died and 60 other people have been injured in a forest
:04:35. > :04:37.fire in central Portugal. A number of the victims died in their
:04:38. > :04:42.vehicles as they tried to escape but became trapped by flames. Portugal
:04:43. > :04:44.has been experiencing a heatwave with temperatures exceeding 40
:04:45. > :04:50.Celsius in several regions. The next news on BBC One
:04:51. > :05:00.is at One o'clock. I said there were menacing for the
:05:01. > :05:05.Prime Minister, this is what I'm talking about. The challenge of a
:05:06. > :05:10.stalking horse leadership if she goes back on drugs and in any way,
:05:11. > :05:13.says the Sunday Telegraph. And there's the Sunday Times, apparently
:05:14. > :05:18.the Tories have told Theresa May veggie has ten days to put things
:05:19. > :05:23.together. The Observer has a story about Tower Block fire warnings that
:05:24. > :05:26.it says ministers ignored, the Mail on Sunday have gone with what
:05:27. > :05:34.Theresa May said, although it is not quite what she said, she did not say
:05:35. > :05:38.that specifically, many of the other papers covering similar material.
:05:39. > :05:43.Victoria Derbyshire, you were there all the way through the post-fire
:05:44. > :05:49.crisis. And every single paper, virtually, has a big long read
:05:50. > :05:53.through, the question is, after all we have seen is it worth sitting
:05:54. > :05:58.down on Sunday and reading the story again? I think so, because it takes
:05:59. > :06:06.you from the beginning to where we are now. And there are new stories,
:06:07. > :06:10.new eyewitness accounts, it begins in the Sunday Times with this
:06:11. > :06:15.damning headline, an inferno that shames us all and it mentions
:06:16. > :06:20.someone receiving a phone call from their sister in the burning block.
:06:21. > :06:24.This is one of the many relatives of Grenfell Tower residents, woken in
:06:25. > :06:29.the small hours of the morning by a telephone call from her sister
:06:30. > :06:33.Nadia. You receive a phone call in the early hours of the morning from
:06:34. > :06:40.your sister saying I am trapped on the 22nd floor on a burning tower
:06:41. > :06:44.block. It is unimaginable. His sister says, Nadia loved the views
:06:45. > :06:50.but like everyone she was worried that it wasn't safe. They knew that
:06:51. > :06:54.it wasn't safe, the residents knew well ahead of time that it was a
:06:55. > :06:58.dangerous building and raised this again and again with Kensington and
:06:59. > :07:04.Chelsea Borough Council. They did and what people don't seem to
:07:05. > :07:10.understand is that the organisation, but Randy Tarbuck, it had a majority
:07:11. > :07:14.of members who were residents. If these concerns were raised so often
:07:15. > :07:18.why did the management organisation not take them seriously? Part of the
:07:19. > :07:22.answered without I believe is that the residents were there as
:07:23. > :07:31.advisers. Not as voters to sprinkler systems. And they were reliant on
:07:32. > :07:37.the experts and the council... The residents said, we were regarded as
:07:38. > :07:40.troublemakers. We all saw these blogs written last year or the year
:07:41. > :07:45.before detailing the concerns. Everyone has the of how this
:07:46. > :07:50.happened but the cladding does seem to be an important factor. Why is it
:07:51. > :07:53.that if this cladding was banned in America and Germany and other
:07:54. > :07:57.countries why was it allowed to be used here. Ministers are getting
:07:58. > :08:02.flack for this and in some ways we will come onto that, some of them
:08:03. > :08:06.probably deserved to but on this one, ministers have to be reliant on
:08:07. > :08:09.experts to advise them. Buy with the experts not saying, this is not
:08:10. > :08:20.material we should use on buildings in this country. Some of the experts
:08:21. > :08:26.were talking about that, Faiza. It's on the front page of the Observer.
:08:27. > :08:29.Ronnie Green, head of the parliamentary group on fire safety,
:08:30. > :08:35.talking about government ministers not only not having meetings with
:08:36. > :08:39.him but also ignoring requests to think about sprinkler systems in
:08:40. > :08:43.tower blocks and also schools. The sense from him that this change only
:08:44. > :08:48.happens when people die. This is the thing that we keep hearing, this was
:08:49. > :08:52.avoidable. I think that was the big thing. When you speak to victims or
:08:53. > :08:59.go to that area people are so angry because it's just feels like these
:09:00. > :09:05.many lives lost... Need not have been lost. And the Mirror has a
:09:06. > :09:11.similar story. This is what is going to happen now. We've got to look at,
:09:12. > :09:17.not only fire regulation and why the residents weren't listened to,
:09:18. > :09:20.sometimes they are treated as second-class citizens. They say
:09:21. > :09:26.these people do not think that our lives are important. Also what role
:09:27. > :09:31.did the cuts have, how much money did the council have, why did they
:09:32. > :09:35.cut those corners. The Mirror talks about the number of fire safety
:09:36. > :09:44.audits, which has been cut quite dramatically. The amount of money
:09:45. > :09:50.available for Fire Service budgets has also been reduced dramatically,
:09:51. > :09:55.so how is this all said in to this horrible tragedy -- how has this
:09:56. > :09:59.heading? People are blaming austerity. Hopefully this will come
:10:00. > :10:02.out in the inquiry but the council were spending ?10 million
:10:03. > :10:11.refurbishing this block. Refurbishing how? In the end it
:10:12. > :10:15.needs to be the experts who are held to account. If it turns out that
:10:16. > :10:21.someone said to the council, you are making a major mistake doing this...
:10:22. > :10:26.The residents said that. If the experts put it through, and this
:10:27. > :10:33.cladding is allowed in this country, it obviously shouldn't be but it is,
:10:34. > :10:39.you cannot lay this all at the door of national politicians, can you?
:10:40. > :10:41.Not all at the De but you have to think at every level what mistakes
:10:42. > :10:47.were made and they made those decisions because maybe... Think we
:10:48. > :10:50.have to say, Kensington Council have not responded to this well. There
:10:51. > :10:56.were not enough people on the ground. The phone lines were either
:10:57. > :11:00.engaged or not operated. The Sunday Times has said they suggested that
:11:01. > :11:07.the government has asked the senior officers of Kensington to step down.
:11:08. > :11:11.The leader of Kensington Council has a lot of questions to answer, how is
:11:12. > :11:13.he still in his job especially after what the Prime Minister said
:11:14. > :11:19.yesterday about how they had failed the local people I think he should
:11:20. > :11:21.consider his position. We've asked Kensington and Chelsea Borough
:11:22. > :11:28.Council to come on. They haven't answered. Do you think we are quite
:11:29. > :11:31.close to the council being in effect suspended by the government? I think
:11:32. > :11:36.we are close to that. I don't know the equivalent of special measures,
:11:37. > :11:41.for schools. But they've failed their local people, it is abundantly
:11:42. > :11:45.clear. Nobody can talk to them. They choose the injuries they will do,
:11:46. > :11:51.they will choose news organisations that the locals don't even watch.
:11:52. > :11:56.It's very easy to get into the blame thing, but this is also a human
:11:57. > :12:01.story. Victoria, you've got the story of a very talented artist who
:12:02. > :12:07.was killed in the fire. Just on the edge of becoming incredibly famous.
:12:08. > :12:19.Just on the edge of success. This is in the Observer, this is also a
:12:20. > :12:22.picture of Khadija Say was from Gambia originally. Her friend
:12:23. > :12:27.writes, we grew up in small flats with strong others and we joke about
:12:28. > :12:33.how as children we were shy about inviting friends, because our homes
:12:34. > :12:36.had foreign objects which are friends would stare out. The final
:12:37. > :12:43.paragraph is moving, my most poignant memory of Khadija is a
:12:44. > :12:49.recent one, we were in a pub when a lady nearby stopped to speak to us
:12:50. > :12:53.and said, I wasn't really listening but I wanted to say what a lovely
:12:54. > :12:59.way you'll speaking to each other, what a lovely French and you have.
:13:00. > :13:05.Khadija's broad smile and her laugh as she said thank you, that will
:13:06. > :13:09.always stay with me. Khadija was a photographer. She had been selected
:13:10. > :13:13.for a competition in Venice, you can see her photographs if you go to her
:13:14. > :13:17.website and they are remarkable, black and white or Seppi photographs
:13:18. > :13:22.of Gambian women. Really interesting. That's a story about
:13:23. > :13:27.two Londoners, there they are in the flats... We never hear these stories
:13:28. > :13:33.about how much talent is in these tower blocks. We assume and watch
:13:34. > :13:35.every programme, whether drama or a documentary, we hear about these
:13:36. > :13:41.places being filled with alcoholics and criminals and what have you.
:13:42. > :13:46.That is the sense. But actually having grown up near these places
:13:47. > :13:51.they'll full of talented people, young people with hope. It's so very
:13:52. > :14:01.painful. And that story of those two... This is a comment piece, an
:14:02. > :14:08.account of growing up in that neighbourhood, and how it has become
:14:09. > :14:12.gentrified overtime, rich people moving in, and then the poor. And
:14:13. > :14:16.there's basically nothing in between. We've seen that in a few
:14:17. > :14:20.neighbourhoods including, say, Islington, where some remain in
:14:21. > :14:25.social housing and the very rich... It has been a very divided part of
:14:26. > :14:32.London for a long time, not far from the place where they have the
:14:33. > :14:36.Rachman scandals in the 1960s, racketeering landlord is right next
:14:37. > :14:39.to palatial buildings. Not much has changed, it's the most divided part
:14:40. > :14:43.of London. I think people forget there are people on low incomes
:14:44. > :14:47.living there. I think the Labour vote reminded people that it isn't
:14:48. > :14:53.just the rich who live in that neighbourhood. In this blog there
:14:54. > :14:56.were owner occupied flats, it was a mixed block. It was not the
:14:57. > :15:03.stereotypical tower block some might have imagined.
:15:04. > :15:10.You had all sorts of people living alongside each other, almost a good
:15:11. > :15:16.example of multicultural London. Let's move on to mainstream politics
:15:17. > :15:22.if we may. Even on this morning we do. Tim Shipman, the political
:15:23. > :15:27.editor of the Sunday Times, has really gone for Theresa May this
:15:28. > :15:33.morning. All of the papers have. Tory sharks are circling... And he
:15:34. > :15:36.is detailing the prankster on the Conservative backbenches. The Sunday
:15:37. > :15:44.Telegraph has a story saying there could be a stalking horse candidates
:15:45. > :15:50.which shows a lack of understanding of the leadership election. Is this
:15:51. > :15:55.fair? Is what fair? On the Prime Minister that she is responsible for
:15:56. > :16:02.everything going wrong? On the day she announced the election she was
:16:03. > :16:07.considered a political colossus and her reputation has descended to
:16:08. > :16:12.somebody who is without power. However Tory MPs should be careful
:16:13. > :16:17.what they wish for because if they do oust her, what happens then? They
:16:18. > :16:25.have to have a new leader, who was it going to be? To take on Jeremy
:16:26. > :16:28.Corbyn? If they oust her, they increased the likelihood of another
:16:29. > :16:33.general election which they will lose and Jeremy Corbyn will be Prime
:16:34. > :16:41.Minister. Absolutely, and even before that they have to get through
:16:42. > :16:49.a leadership election, which would push back Brexit, disastrous.
:16:50. > :16:55.Theresa May went from hero to zero in a week. Now she is fighting for
:16:56. > :16:59.her political life again. I think her reaction to this disaster has
:17:00. > :17:05.been understandable in their wake. She had advice she had to leave the
:17:06. > :17:09.church whenever it was on Friday. She has actually spent hours with
:17:10. > :17:14.community leaders and the victims. We heard last night on the news when
:17:15. > :17:19.she invited people to Downing Street, it wasn't Downing Street
:17:20. > :17:22.spin as saying she had broken down in tears, it was a local vicar who
:17:23. > :17:26.had broken down in tears, it was a local vicar who have been meeting
:17:27. > :17:33.and saw her holding the hand of the woman next to her. She could have
:17:34. > :17:38.seen the residence on Thursday. But if you are advised not to... You can
:17:39. > :17:42.overrule them, you are right, and in retrospect it proved to be a
:17:43. > :17:47.mistake. And what are they saying about the Prime Minister on the
:17:48. > :17:54.streets around the tower? I heard them saying things like "What is she
:17:55. > :18:00.doing here?" We didn't know she hadn't let residents at that point.
:18:01. > :18:04.It was only afterwards, when they realised residents have not been met
:18:05. > :18:08.she spoke to firefighters who described her as a coward. Very
:18:09. > :18:13.briefly, from your perspective what is the political significance of
:18:14. > :18:19.this moment? Do you think it is a turning point in the country? She
:18:20. > :18:24.has proven herself not to be able to lead. At every point her hand has
:18:25. > :18:29.been forced, meeting victims, putting money together, even with
:18:30. > :18:44.the council standing down it is all after-the-fact, after people are
:18:45. > :18:46.protesting. In a way she is down -- damned if she does and if she
:18:47. > :18:49.doesn't. Thank you. Above all, the Grenfell Tower
:18:50. > :18:50.community wants answers. What happens
:18:51. > :18:52.now to those who have friends, children, homes,
:18:53. > :18:55.and all their possessions? Why were the repeated,
:18:56. > :18:57.desperate warnings about the safety Earlier I spoke Pilgrim Tucker,
:18:58. > :19:01.a community activist who worked with the Grenfell residents action
:19:02. > :19:03.group and was one of And to Randa El-Daouk,
:19:04. > :19:07.a friend of Mohammad al-Haj Ali - I began by asking Randa
:19:08. > :19:24.how she knew him. I knew him from the Syrian community
:19:25. > :19:29.and... Who was loved by all of us. He was loved by people who knew him
:19:30. > :19:32.very well, by people who didn't know him very well, just by the community
:19:33. > :19:39.and it is sad to see what his family must be going through now. Obviously
:19:40. > :19:44.they have questions about how this happened. He didn't manage to escape
:19:45. > :19:51.the building but his body was not found. How did that happen? And he
:19:52. > :19:57.was communicating with his brother and family by mobile phone in his
:19:58. > :20:01.last moments. Yes, and I just cannot imagine how his brothers and the
:20:02. > :20:09.family are going to be able to continue with the struggles that
:20:10. > :20:13.they face. Most of his family are still in Syria and they will want to
:20:14. > :20:22.come over for the inquest presumably and the burial and so forth. Have
:20:23. > :20:27.they had assurances they can do that? Yes, the Home Office has
:20:28. > :20:31.agreed to reunite the family, and so far as that is helpful and maybe it
:20:32. > :20:35.is the support that others need at the moment, but I think the main
:20:36. > :20:43.concerns of the family are why were the helicopters there, filming
:20:44. > :20:48.residents burning to death but not helicopters there to save the
:20:49. > :20:52.residents who were trapped in the flats? This question will haunt them
:20:53. > :20:57.for the rest of their lives. They assume it is very dangerous for a
:20:58. > :21:02.helicopter to go so close to something so hot, maybe the answer,
:21:03. > :21:08.but there will be of questions from the family. Yes, surely there are
:21:09. > :21:11.ways. Obviously the helicopter could have been spraying water into the
:21:12. > :21:18.building or they could have had platforms and nets for people to
:21:19. > :21:21.jump into. And the rest of the questions. Public inquest might
:21:22. > :21:37.answer some of them, but the ultimate question is if it will ever
:21:38. > :21:43.be resolved. Randa, you have been in touch, however you coping? Not very
:21:44. > :21:47.well. Of course it helps the family will come, but they need closure and
:21:48. > :21:57.the question is if they will ever get that. Thank you. Pilgrim Tucker,
:21:58. > :22:05.you were involved in a lot of the campaigning issues going back quite
:22:06. > :22:10.a long time ago. There was a blog which was very explicit about this
:22:11. > :22:16.kind of thing happening, tell us about the campaign. I campaigned
:22:17. > :22:20.just after the consultation when the works had finished and the residents
:22:21. > :22:24.realised what they have been told about the refurbishment was actually
:22:25. > :22:30.nothing like the reality of what was happening. To be clear, the tower
:22:31. > :22:34.block have been refurbished but no sprinklers, no fire safety systems
:22:35. > :22:39.have been put in. No, there was work done on the boilers at what a lot of
:22:40. > :22:42.people are now saying, there was this cladding on the building and
:22:43. > :22:51.people are saying it was for cosmetic purposes. There were these
:22:52. > :22:58.very basic safety things that needed doing like the lives and stairwells.
:22:59. > :23:01.So what you're saying is inside the building, relatively poor families
:23:02. > :23:07.were living in unsafe conditions but to make the building looked pretty
:23:08. > :23:13.they put cladding on the outside. That is what people in the area
:23:14. > :23:20.think and they are saying. We now know it was substandard and wasn't
:23:21. > :23:24.good quality, and they cut costs on the flooding and used cheaper
:23:25. > :23:28.cladding, which was apparently the more flammable ones. That will be
:23:29. > :23:34.looked into I expect, but the quality of the work going on when I
:23:35. > :23:39.was working with them was so poor. They were really angry about it,
:23:40. > :23:44.really upset about it. At that stage, did people living in the
:23:45. > :23:49.building fear that a disastrous fire might take place? They all raised
:23:50. > :23:53.fire safety concerns in those first meetings. There was a catalogue,
:23:54. > :24:00.going back years, a catalogue of problems with the building and a
:24:01. > :24:03.consistent failure. Theresa May has said she has got things wrong in the
:24:04. > :24:05.short term and has produced a new package of measures to help those
:24:06. > :24:11.affected by the disaster. What more do you think the Prime Minister
:24:12. > :24:15.should now be doing? What needs to happen immediately is those families
:24:16. > :24:18.who have survived the fire and are now homeless need to be given really
:24:19. > :24:25.good accommodation, cost not being an object, as close to possible as
:24:26. > :24:29.where they were living before. To stay in the community. To stay in
:24:30. > :24:34.the community near family and friends. That is possible, there are
:24:35. > :24:39.lots of empty houses in the area, and I think someone has talked about
:24:40. > :24:44.requisitioning them. Private rental... We know it is possible. It
:24:45. > :24:50.is indicative of how these people felt they were treated, and how they
:24:51. > :24:54.strongly feel now is they are the lower income, they are not poor,
:24:55. > :25:02.just ordinary working people, not very very wealthy. They are not a
:25:03. > :25:05.priority, not important. The Government and local authorities
:25:06. > :25:10.have treated them like rubbish basically, and they continue to do
:25:11. > :25:16.it. Thank you both very much for talking to us. Pilgrim Tucker there.
:25:17. > :25:18.And so the weather. It's hot.
:25:19. > :25:22.If you want any more detail, Helen Willetts
:25:23. > :25:32.It is hot, the warmest day of the year so far and likely to be beaten
:25:33. > :25:39.again, the 30 we had yesterday, today. With it, the risk of high
:25:40. > :25:44.levels of pollen for those who suffer, and the sunshine is about as
:25:45. > :25:49.strong as it gets, particularly for England and Wales. It isn't sunny
:25:50. > :25:52.and hot for everyone, we have this weather front meandering across
:25:53. > :25:56.Scotland and at times it is bringing patchy rain as it did yesterday, but
:25:57. > :26:06.again with shelter from the south westerly breezes, Northern Ireland,
:26:07. > :26:12.and in south-east Northern Ireland a lot of sunshine. In the south-east
:26:13. > :26:16.and east Anglia there could be a late afternoon thunderstorm which
:26:17. > :26:20.will rumble on into the evening and fade away. The night-time sees the
:26:21. > :26:24.weather front slowly slipping southwards and the humidity is
:26:25. > :26:28.spreading north so an uncomfortable night more widely for sleeping
:26:29. > :26:37.across England and Wales. More cloud generally across the country, but
:26:38. > :26:42.the heat is with us again, and again it could trigger thunderstorms.
:26:43. > :26:49.Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
:26:50. > :26:55.Singer Charis Matthews gives her personal view on the London Fire. I
:26:56. > :27:01.will be talking to Jim Leadbetter about her sister, the MP Jo Cox. And
:27:02. > :27:03.we will be meeting the single man who adopted four children. See you
:27:04. > :27:07.at ten o'clock. So many Labour figures
:27:08. > :27:09.see this disaster as Jeremy Corbyn has connected it
:27:10. > :27:13.to Tory austerity and one of his lieutenants tweeted
:27:14. > :27:17."Burn Neo Liberalism not Sir Keir Starmer,
:27:18. > :27:29.Labour's Brexit spokesman Do you believe this ghastly event
:27:30. > :27:33.was caused by cuts and austerity? Can my first and my thoughts to the
:27:34. > :27:39.victims and their families of this tragedy. We have all been touched by
:27:40. > :27:42.these stories. We have to tread carefully, it is clear there are
:27:43. > :27:47.serious questions that need to be answered about the cladding, about
:27:48. > :27:50.the costing, there has been questions about housing in London
:27:51. > :27:54.for a long time with lots of issues raise that haven't been answered so
:27:55. > :27:58.serious questions that require serious answers and accountability.
:27:59. > :28:05.Has your party been dreading carefully? Because Labour were quick
:28:06. > :28:09.to save the Tories have blood on their hands and that kind of stuff.
:28:10. > :28:14.Boris Johnson has accused the Labour Party of playing politics with this.
:28:15. > :28:19.There is understandable anger and frustration, you have seen that from
:28:20. > :28:24.those living in the tower block and people in other situations. In
:28:25. > :28:27.Camden in my constituency there is great anxiety about people living in
:28:28. > :28:35.similar tower blocks and it is the responsibility of all of us...
:28:36. > :28:39.People want reassurance. I spent Friday with Camden Council looking
:28:40. > :28:44.at the blocks there. All councils have a duty to say to their own
:28:45. > :28:48.constituents what will happen by way of enhanced fire checks in the
:28:49. > :28:52.coming days and weeks. You heard one of the activists from the community
:28:53. > :28:56.seen nearby properties which are vacant should possibly be
:28:57. > :29:00.requisitioned to ensure people who have been made homeless by this fire
:29:01. > :29:08.can stay close to where they were in the community, do you agree with
:29:09. > :29:12.that? That is one option and the level of support is food but also
:29:13. > :29:15.housing. A number of people in London are looking at what
:29:16. > :29:18.properties they have and how they can help and that needs to come
:29:19. > :29:24.together quickly this week. The Labour Party bear some
:29:25. > :29:29.responsibility too, there was a ghastly fire in south London and one
:29:30. > :29:32.before that in Southampton and in 2000 there was a report at the House
:29:33. > :29:36.of Commons which said that the cladding issue needed to be looked
:29:37. > :29:40.at again and added, "We do not believe it should take a serious
:29:41. > :29:46.fire in which many people are killed before reasonable steps are taken
:29:47. > :29:49.towards minimising the risks". We had another ten years of Labour
:29:50. > :29:55.government after that. Everyone needs to look at why these
:29:56. > :30:00.recommendations over the years have not been implemented. I have to look
:30:01. > :30:03.at the 2009 file as to whether there should be prosecutions. It is clear
:30:04. > :30:10.there were recommendations that should have been acted on, we all
:30:11. > :30:18.need to ask questions. So all parties are to blame? All parties
:30:19. > :30:23.need to ask why recommendations have not been implemented. The Prime
:30:24. > :30:28.Minister has promised a public inquiry, and she chooses the chair
:30:29. > :30:32.of that and it reports to her. Other people are saying no, inquests are
:30:33. > :30:37.much more important because the families get the chance to speak out
:30:38. > :30:38.and get their own lawyers there as well and we could have criminal
:30:39. > :30:48.proceedings if necessary. At the moment there is a criminal
:30:49. > :30:51.investigation, the prosecutors are already advising the police said the
:30:52. > :30:55.criminal investigation must come first, normally an inquest only
:30:56. > :31:00.takes place at the end of the investigation. The idea of an
:31:01. > :31:03.inquiry, because that in some soccer says this can happen more quickly
:31:04. > :31:10.and I think speed is of the essence here, it's more important.
:31:11. > :31:14.Manslaughter charges? Yes, we will be looking at manslaughter charges,
:31:15. > :31:18.there are wider regulatory offences but manslaughter is the most serious
:31:19. > :31:22.and that will be looked at first. A public inquiry allows things to
:31:23. > :31:26.happen more quickly, allows a broad range of questions and an inquest
:31:27. > :31:31.usually comes at the end of the inquiry. Let's turn to Brexit. How
:31:32. > :31:36.do you think the general election result has changed the negotiating
:31:37. > :31:40.position Britain should take? The Prime Minister has good us into a
:31:41. > :31:45.complete mess. She has no mandate and no authority broad. And
:31:46. > :31:51.negotiations start tomorrow. Things need to change. Her approach so far
:31:52. > :31:56.has alienate and our allies in Europe and weakened our position in
:31:57. > :32:01.the EU and got us into the worst possible starting position. What
:32:02. > :32:05.people say is that Labour's position on Brexit is identical to Theresa
:32:06. > :32:10.May's position so let me ask about that, do you accept that we are
:32:11. > :32:16.leaving the EU come what May? Yes, we've been clear about that from the
:32:17. > :32:23.start. Are you against a second referendum. One cannot take place
:32:24. > :32:26.until we've left the EU so it's not viable. Third question. Are there
:32:27. > :32:32.any circumstances in which you think Britain should stay in the single
:32:33. > :32:38.market? Our manifest is clear, we want to retain the benefits of the
:32:39. > :32:41.single market and the customs union. Full membership is only available to
:32:42. > :32:47.EU member states. That's why there's all this discussion... That sounds
:32:48. > :32:53.like No, we can stay in the single market. Not in an unreformed way
:32:54. > :32:57.because you have to be a full EU member. You're not giving me a clear
:32:58. > :33:01.answer. Could the single market be changed in a way that allows us to
:33:02. > :33:05.stay? I think the mistake we are making is to build a model before
:33:06. > :33:09.the outcome. What we want is tariff free access to the single market. No
:33:10. > :33:15.customs duties that make it harder for people to trade. That is what
:33:16. > :33:19.matters. The flip side of that from the EU point of view is how do we
:33:20. > :33:22.make sure it's a level playing field, how do we make sure
:33:23. > :33:29.regulations apply across the board. It's the outcome, and getting into
:33:30. > :33:34.the model loses the focus on the outcome. I understand that. I must
:33:35. > :33:39.go. The Labour position is as clear as mud on the single market! John
:33:40. > :33:44.McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn have both said, we are out of the single
:33:45. > :33:49.market, that's it. You can only be a full member of the single market if
:33:50. > :33:54.you are a member of the EU. It is obvious we will be something else.
:33:55. > :34:00.But do we leave options on the table? I have said repeatedly, yes,
:34:01. > :34:05.leave options. There are a number of different models... Focus on the
:34:06. > :34:09.outcomes, and asking specifically. You can either take single market
:34:10. > :34:14.membership and say, what needs to change to get us into the position
:34:15. > :34:18.we need to be in or you can start and work up. What matters is the
:34:19. > :34:22.outcomes because we need a deal that works for this country. Would you
:34:23. > :34:26.sacrifice control over freedom of movement to stay in the single
:34:27. > :34:31.market or have good access to it? It is clear freedom of movement will
:34:32. > :34:35.end when we leave the EU. The discussion we will have is what
:34:36. > :34:40.model fits with changes to free movement plus changes that we need.
:34:41. > :34:44.So you could have some freedom of movement remaining. I don't
:34:45. > :34:47.understand this. In the end immigration comes down to... You
:34:48. > :34:53.sound as if in a gentle way you are saying what Theresa May would say.
:34:54. > :34:56.No, she's taken the wrong approach. The tone is wrong. I say we can't
:34:57. > :34:59.have membership because that was decided last year, we could have
:35:00. > :35:07.partnership if we change the tone and approach. Let me try one more
:35:08. > :35:12.thing. The customs union. In or out. I think it should be left on the
:35:13. > :35:18.table. So we could stay inside the customs union. That's the single
:35:19. > :35:22.biggest difference between you and the Conservatives. There is also
:35:23. > :35:25.this notion of no deal being a viable deal which Theresa May and
:35:26. > :35:28.the government have repeatedly said. No deal is what happens if you get
:35:29. > :35:32.to the end of two years and haven't been able to reach agreement, you
:35:33. > :35:37.get pushed over the cliff. To say I will jump is not a negotiating
:35:38. > :35:42.stance that makes much sense. It seems a lifetime ago but last week
:35:43. > :35:46.ask Jeremy Corbyn about the Great Repeal Bill and he said that
:35:47. > :35:50.history. Will you vote against it? The problem the Great Repeal Bill is
:35:51. > :35:58.her to entrench rights and freedoms that we can't enjoy it... -- how to
:35:59. > :36:02.entrench them without qualification, without limitation... It takes all
:36:03. > :36:05.those workers's rights that the EU have legislated for and puts them
:36:06. > :36:10.into British law so I can't see why Labour would be against it.
:36:11. > :36:13.Invincible we are not against it. In practice how do we prevent
:36:14. > :36:18.qualification or limitation of that. Second, how do we make sure, as time
:36:19. > :36:24.goes by that our standards don't slip below those... OK. One final
:36:25. > :36:34.yes or no, will you oppose the Great Repeal Bill of Commons. We haven't
:36:35. > :36:36.seen it yet. The principle of entrenching rights and freedoms is
:36:37. > :36:46.when we would support. Thank you very much.
:36:47. > :36:50.Nick Robinson will be talking to the minister with one
:36:51. > :36:52.of the toughest jobs in a hung parliament,
:36:53. > :36:55.and to Labour's campaign chief Andrew Gwynne.
:36:56. > :36:57.That's the Sunday Politics at 11 on BBC 1.
:36:58. > :36:59.As we've been hearing, lots of challenges for the Government.
:37:00. > :37:01.With Brexit talks starting tomorrow, I'm joined now
:37:02. > :37:04.by the Chancellor Phillip Hammond, but before we get to that let's talk
:37:05. > :37:06.about the Government's responsibility in the wake
:37:07. > :37:11.There was a coroner 's inquest and four years ago the coroner said that
:37:12. > :37:17.regulations relating to fire safety needed to be looked at, is that
:37:18. > :37:20.being said. , Begin by offering my condolences to those who have lost
:37:21. > :37:24.family and loved ones in this terrible tragedy and extending my
:37:25. > :37:27.sympathy to all those affected. This is the first time I've been on the
:37:28. > :37:31.media since the fire so I want to put that on record. We have looked,
:37:32. > :37:38.obviously, those recommendations and what has happened to them. What do
:37:39. > :37:42.you conclude. My assessment is that we have responded correctly and
:37:43. > :37:55.appropriately to those recommendations. But Andrew... Can
:37:56. > :37:59.I ask you, how have you revised them. No good asking a government
:38:00. > :38:01.minister to mark our own homework. The point of an inquiry is that a
:38:02. > :38:03.judge will look at those recommendations. He will look at how
:38:04. > :38:06.the government has responded, how landlords and local authorities have
:38:07. > :38:08.responded and it will be for the public inquiry to decide
:38:09. > :38:12.definitively whether that has been correctly done or not. But you are
:38:13. > :38:15.accountable to everyone watching what the government has done. The
:38:16. > :38:21.government has had four years to look again at fire regulations which
:38:22. > :38:25.you were told, by a coroner, after ghastly fire in which people died in
:38:26. > :38:29.London, you have to revise them. I put it to you that you have not
:38:30. > :38:33.revised them, a major error by this government. There is a process
:38:34. > :38:37.underway and various steps have been taken, research has been
:38:38. > :38:41.commissioned which was reported back on, as I understand that there was a
:38:42. > :38:47.consultation published earlier this year, on revision to regulations.
:38:48. > :38:51.There has been consultations, there's been revision, humming and
:38:52. > :38:55.this and that, you've had four years to do something you were told needed
:38:56. > :38:59.to be done and you haven't done it. You'd have done that in five minutes
:39:00. > :39:02.of it had been Buckingham Palace. With these tower blocks you sat on
:39:03. > :39:06.it for four years. I don't think that is true and it's not fair. The
:39:07. > :39:11.point is that these are complexity and legal issues. And in this case,
:39:12. > :39:15.technical expert research was commissioned so that the decisions
:39:16. > :39:20.could be properly informed. Did it take to long? Did we handle it in
:39:21. > :39:24.the correct way? The inquiry will determine that. That is the point of
:39:25. > :39:28.a judge led public inquiry with full power to call anyone to give
:39:29. > :39:33.evidence, to call for all papers. That will put all of this stuff
:39:34. > :39:36.under the microscope and show how different parties responded. And all
:39:37. > :39:40.of that should be looked at, of course. Let's turn to another
:39:41. > :39:45.relevant question which is the one of sprinklers in the building. Again
:39:46. > :39:47.you were told to advise local authorities to put in sprinklers.
:39:48. > :39:52.They are not in many of these buildings or in many of our schools
:39:53. > :39:55.either. And you need an urgent campaign, whatever the cost to put
:39:56. > :40:01.sprinklers into tower blocks, schools and other public buildings.
:40:02. > :40:03.If the conclusion of a proper technical evaluation is that this is
:40:04. > :40:10.the best way to deal with the problem, then of course. But my
:40:11. > :40:15.understanding, Andrew, again I am not an expert but my understanding
:40:16. > :40:19.is that the best expert advice is that retrofitting sprinklers may not
:40:20. > :40:23.always be the best technical way of ensuring fire safety in the
:40:24. > :40:28.building. If it is, it should be done. Let's get the technical advise
:40:29. > :40:34.properly evaluated by a public inquiry and Ben Betts decide how to
:40:35. > :40:37.go forward. -- and then let's decide how to go forward. If there is
:40:38. > :40:43.something that needs to be done to make a building safe it will be
:40:44. > :40:47.done. I'm not an expert either but we don't need technical expertise to
:40:48. > :40:51.show us at sprinklers help to put out fires and a lot of people in
:40:52. > :40:55.blocks like that one will be watching, thinking, there are no
:40:56. > :40:59.sprinklers outside my staircase, why not. We don't need technical
:41:00. > :41:03.expertise, the fire authorities have pointed out that no one has lost
:41:04. > :41:08.their life in this country and a block where sprinklers have been
:41:09. > :41:12.fitted. These are technical questions. Let's leave it... I have
:41:13. > :41:17.been in these meetings. Of course we have asked all these questions. What
:41:18. > :41:24.I am hearing from the leading fire safety experts is that it is not
:41:25. > :41:28.necessarily necessary to fit, to retrofit sprinklers to make a
:41:29. > :41:33.building fire safe. I don't want to call that judgment, I'm not an
:41:34. > :41:37.expert but we do need to look at all the evidence of this, all the
:41:38. > :41:40.technical evidence, through the public inquiry. The commitment that
:41:41. > :41:44.the government should make and I will make it now is that when the
:41:45. > :41:48.inquiry produces its findings and I don't mean in one ear's time because
:41:49. > :41:56.we will ask them for interim findings, when the inquiry produces
:41:57. > :42:00.tidings we will act on them. The cladding which went up like a rocket
:42:01. > :42:04.is banned in most European countries and band in the United States, if
:42:05. > :42:07.the inquiry says it must be torn from every single building and we
:42:08. > :42:12.have to refinish those buildings will the government pay for that as
:42:13. > :42:16.well? My understanding is that the cladding, this flammable cladding
:42:17. > :42:24.brand in Europe and the US is also banned here. Why did it go up? Two
:42:25. > :42:29.questions. Our our regulations correct, do they permit the right
:42:30. > :42:34.materials and ban the wrong kind? The second one, where they correctly
:42:35. > :42:40.with? Obviously that will be subdued the inquiry look out, also a subject
:42:41. > :42:44.that the separate criminal investigation will look at. Was
:42:45. > :42:49.David Cameron right to say it was important to kill off the health and
:42:50. > :42:54.safety culture in this country? He wasn't talking about fire safety.
:42:55. > :42:58.Fire safety in buildings is crucial. Nobody would compromise anything
:42:59. > :43:02.around fire safety in buildings. There was a debate in the House of
:43:03. > :43:06.Commons on sprinklers and fire safety not long ago and won of your
:43:07. > :43:17.ministers at the time, Brandon Lewis, again and again boasted about
:43:18. > :43:19.getting rid of regulations. Get rid of one, get rid of two, the entire
:43:20. > :43:22.conversation was about getting rid of regulations and the excessive
:43:23. > :43:25.cost of sprinklers. Getting rid of regulation to do smart and effective
:43:26. > :43:28.regulation properly, we did have a Jungle of legacy regulations in this
:43:29. > :43:34.country and I think we should be proud of the way we cleared out a
:43:35. > :43:41.lot of the unnecessary regulation to make life easier for small
:43:42. > :43:45.businesses. But nobody wants to compromise on safety regulations,
:43:46. > :43:50.that's not the case at all. OK. Last year there was a vote and has of
:43:51. > :43:54.commons to ensure that all private landlords ensured that their homes
:43:55. > :43:58.were fit the human habitation. How did you vote. That was a Private
:43:59. > :44:04.members Bill and I don't think I voted on it. It was an amendment to
:44:05. > :44:09.the housing planning Bill. I can't answer your question that it will be
:44:10. > :44:12.a matter of record. Did you vote against it? Your political critics
:44:13. > :44:18.say the Tories have launched this war against the so-called health and
:44:19. > :44:23.safety culture, sneering at it, regulations are always bad, and you
:44:24. > :44:28.have pushed too far. Regulation is not always bad. Good regulation is
:44:29. > :44:32.what we need. We have a proper regulatory framework. Obviously
:44:33. > :44:35.there are questions about it and it is right that the public inquiry
:44:36. > :44:39.should look at those questions but is not the right way to run
:44:40. > :44:46.regulatory framework, just to accept amendments that people table... We
:44:47. > :44:49.have a framework to make sure that buildings are safe and fit
:44:50. > :44:55.habitation. What we must do is make sure that framework is right and
:44:56. > :45:01.then also make sure that it is being enforced and implement it in the
:45:02. > :45:04.proper way and these are the right questions in the wake of a tragedy
:45:05. > :45:08.like this, we must look at them and the right way to do and is to ask an
:45:09. > :45:15.independent judge to look at it. The general election gives us in a
:45:16. > :45:24.situation, are you going to go ahead with ?30 billion cuts to local
:45:25. > :45:30.authority budgets. 3 billion, I'm sorry. We the BBC! I've noticed! We
:45:31. > :45:34.set out a series of measures already legislated for. We have other
:45:35. > :45:37.proposals that will need to look at again in the light of the general
:45:38. > :45:41.election result and in the new parliament. I will be delivering a
:45:42. > :45:47.budget in the autumn and you will find out then what we are proposing.
:45:48. > :45:51.But you are not saying that these ?3 billion cuts in local authority
:45:52. > :46:05.spending will definitely go ahead? I will say, there's not going to be a
:46:06. > :46:09.Summer Budget, there'll be a regular one in November as we'd always
:46:10. > :46:11.planned. And in that budget we will set out our future plans for public
:46:12. > :46:13.spending, taxation and fiscal balance and everything else that
:46:14. > :46:20.needs to be clear. If you are against the DUP -- if you are in
:46:21. > :46:24.Corporation with the DUP, who are against some of your policies, the
:46:25. > :46:29.general direction will have to change. We will look at all these
:46:30. > :46:34.things. We are not deaf. We had the message was to begin the general
:46:35. > :46:37.election. And we need to look at how we deal with the challenges we face
:46:38. > :46:44.in the economy. And I understand that people are wary after years of
:46:45. > :46:51.hard work, to rebuild the economy from the great crash of 2008-9. But
:46:52. > :46:56.we have to live with an our means. And more borrowing which seems to be
:46:57. > :46:59.Jeremy Corbyn 's answer, is not the solution -- within our means.
:47:00. > :47:03.Borrowing to fund current consumption is asking the next
:47:04. > :47:04.generation to pick up the tab for spending that we want to do but not
:47:05. > :47:15.prepared to pay for. But you would agree with Tobias
:47:16. > :47:25.Ellwood, the nation has been worn down by austerity. Our economy
:47:26. > :47:27.contracted by nearly 7% after the financial crisis and it's been a
:47:28. > :47:32.long process of rebuilding but look at what we have achieved, we have
:47:33. > :47:37.created 2.9 million new jobs during that period and the growth rate is
:47:38. > :47:43.nearly double that of France during that period. So that's the record,
:47:44. > :47:46.that is the history. Looking forward, I've prepared to say we
:47:47. > :47:50.will take a different direction and a version of austerity that the
:47:51. > :47:55.country has gone through over the last period is now over and you are
:47:56. > :48:01.taking a different direction? I took a different direction when I took
:48:02. > :48:07.this job last year. I changed my predecessor's targets, giving more
:48:08. > :48:12.fiscal headroom, recognising that we were going through a period of
:48:13. > :48:15.uncertainty because of taxes negotiations so I have created more
:48:16. > :48:20.flexibility to respond to the situation on the ground and we will
:48:21. > :48:23.use that if necessary. You have been clear you are against further
:48:24. > :48:27.borrowing and saying you are listening to what the country feels
:48:28. > :48:32.about austerity, so that would imply under certain circumstances you
:48:33. > :48:38.would be prepared to raise some taxes a bit too blunt the edge of
:48:39. > :48:42.austerity? We have never said we won't raise some taxes, but we are
:48:43. > :48:47.government that believes in low taxes and we want to reduce the
:48:48. > :48:51.burden of taxes overall for working families. That is a political
:48:52. > :48:56.objective, but what is dishonest is the approach the Labour Party took
:48:57. > :49:00.in the general election, pretending that you can raise taxes but they
:49:01. > :49:06.will never impact ordinary people. Increasing the burden of taxation
:49:07. > :49:10.will have an impact. If it is tax on companies, it will reduce investment
:49:11. > :49:16.and the creation of jobs. But some people will put the headline on that
:49:17. > :49:21.saying, austerity is over, says Philip Hammond. I've seen lots of
:49:22. > :49:26.headlines saying that already. The issue is we have still got the
:49:27. > :49:32.deficit, 2.5% of our GDP, that is not sustainable in the long term.
:49:33. > :49:36.Nobody can spend 2.5% more than they've earn every year. We have to
:49:37. > :49:40.deal with that, we have stretched out the timetable for dealing with
:49:41. > :49:47.its to support the economy during this period but objective... Our
:49:48. > :49:52.objective remains to bring the public finances back to violence by
:49:53. > :49:55.the middle of the next decade, to do that in a way that is sensitive to
:49:56. > :50:02.the needs of the economy and that's why we deliberately created what we
:50:03. > :50:07.have called wriggle room on the fiscal side. Very interesting. How
:50:08. > :50:12.do you think Britain's position when it comes to Brexit negotiations have
:50:13. > :50:16.been changed by the election result? Our position has been set out in the
:50:17. > :50:21.Prime Minister's Lancaster house speech, which was generally well
:50:22. > :50:26.received in the European Union. It is not surprising there has been
:50:27. > :50:34.posturing and chest beating coming from Brussels, we would expect that,
:50:35. > :50:38.but what I hear, and I was in Luxembourg on Friday, I hear a
:50:39. > :50:43.continuing commitment to engage constructively with the UK and a
:50:44. > :50:48.desire to have a close, ongoing relationship with the UK and that is
:50:49. > :50:52.good news. But others in the Tory party who call you Remainer Phil,
:50:53. > :50:56.can you say we are definitely leaving the EU on my watch and we
:50:57. > :51:02.are definitely moving the single market on my watch? Yes, definitely.
:51:03. > :51:06.We are leaving the EU and therefore we will be leaving the single
:51:07. > :51:11.market, and by the way we will be leaving the customs union. The
:51:12. > :51:14.question is what do we put in its place in order to deliver the
:51:15. > :51:22.objectives which the Prime Minister set out in the Lancaster house
:51:23. > :51:26.speech of having no hard border Ireland and enabling British goods
:51:27. > :51:32.to flow freely across the border. And you know that a lot of
:51:33. > :51:36.businesses in the city and elsewhere are really worried about this issue
:51:37. > :51:46.and fears a sharp cliff edge? Yes, and that is the issue. When I talk
:51:47. > :51:51.about the Brexit, it has two avoid cliff edges and ensure we segued
:51:52. > :51:54.seamlessly from the customs union to a new arrangement in the future that
:51:55. > :51:58.will continue to allow British goods to flow not just without tariffs
:51:59. > :52:03.because actually tariffs are relatively small part of the
:52:04. > :52:08.problem. It is without delays and bureaucracy because that interferes
:52:09. > :52:15.with just-in-time supply chains and the flow of fresh produce. We have
:52:16. > :52:18.got to make sure our border continues to work seamlessly and
:52:19. > :52:22.that is probably the number one challenge for business. You have set
:52:23. > :52:26.a different model but this also implies quite a long transitional
:52:27. > :52:33.arrangement before we leave the customs union, is that right? I have
:52:34. > :52:37.always said we will need some kind of transitional structures and the
:52:38. > :52:41.European Union needs to understand that as well. This is not a British
:52:42. > :52:45.demand, it's a statement of common sense is that if we are going to
:52:46. > :52:50.radically change the way we work together, we need to get there via a
:52:51. > :52:54.slow and not cliff edge. That's good for business on both sides of the
:52:55. > :52:59.English Channel, good for citizens and protecting jobs. Would you
:53:00. > :53:04.expect to have left the customs union by the end of this Parliament
:53:05. > :53:08.in 2022? We will leave the customs union when we leave the European
:53:09. > :53:14.Union, the question is what we put in place, and that may not be a
:53:15. > :53:17.single arrangement that endures forever, it may be an arrangement
:53:18. > :53:23.that lasts for a couple of years as a temporary measure before we get to
:53:24. > :53:28.the long-term agreed status quo of relations between UK and the EU.
:53:29. > :53:32.During those couple of years, Liam Fox is hopping from foot to foot,
:53:33. > :53:37.bursting to get out and do his new trade deals around the world and he
:53:38. > :53:42.cannot do it while we are still tied to the customs union, can he? It
:53:43. > :53:50.depends. If are restricted on entering new trade deals during an
:53:51. > :53:55.interim period, that won't stop us negotiating and preparing. Normally
:53:56. > :54:00.these deals take a long time to negotiate. It also won't stop us
:54:01. > :54:06.from negotiating deals around services, particularly financial
:54:07. > :54:11.services. Are you worried about the position of the city? We are about
:54:12. > :54:17.to do that even now. Are you worried about the position of the city right
:54:18. > :54:21.now? The financial services sector, by the way which is not just in the
:54:22. > :54:25.city, it is spread around the country, but it is about 7% of our
:54:26. > :54:31.economy and an even more important part of our fiscal receipts, about
:54:32. > :54:35.11% of our taxes come from the financial services sector so very
:54:36. > :54:39.important we protect it. And because we have an economy that is heavily
:54:40. > :54:44.services dominated, it is essential for Britain that a future deal with
:54:45. > :54:49.the European Union is not just about free trade in goods, but also free
:54:50. > :54:52.trade in services. It has got to be fair and it will only be fair if it
:54:53. > :54:58.deals with services as well as goods. Do you think no deal is
:54:59. > :55:03.better than a bad deal? Let me be clear that no deal would be a very
:55:04. > :55:08.bad outcome for Britain but there is a possible worse outcome and that is
:55:09. > :55:11.a deal that is deliberately structured to punish us and suck the
:55:12. > :55:21.lifeblood out of our economy over a period of time and I would not agree
:55:22. > :55:25.to a deal that was clearly designed to destroy us over a long period of
:55:26. > :55:28.time. And you are in charge of the money, do you look at some of the
:55:29. > :55:32.eye watering sums being talked about in the EU as a price for leaving and
:55:33. > :55:36.say absolutely not on my watch? I look at them and say I don't
:55:37. > :55:41.recognise these sums at all, it is the most egregious renegotiation
:55:42. > :55:45.posturing I have seen for a long while but any questions around
:55:46. > :55:48.money, financial contributions to any organisations will be for the
:55:49. > :55:54.negotiations which will start tomorrow. Do you think in the
:55:55. > :55:59.aftermath of the election vote, the tens of thousands promise over
:56:00. > :56:04.immigration is now dead? The Prime Minister has been clear we will
:56:05. > :56:08.aspire to deliver overtime sustainable net migration into this
:56:09. > :56:12.country and that is defined as being below 100,000 per year, but we
:56:13. > :56:16.haven't put a timescale on it. We know it will be challenging and we
:56:17. > :56:21.have been very clear we will not do it in a way that damages the British
:56:22. > :56:24.economy so it has got to go hand-in-hand with addressing our
:56:25. > :56:28.skills shortage here and we have taken a big step forward with the
:56:29. > :56:32.announcements on technical skills in the budget. Firstly home broke the
:56:33. > :56:38.skills we need, then we deal with migration issues
:56:39. > :56:43.# Home grow. When you saw the exit poll it must have been a bittersweet
:56:44. > :56:47.moment, you knew you were going to keep your job because if Theresa May
:56:48. > :56:52.had got a big majority she would have fired you as Chancellor. My
:56:53. > :56:56.reaction was bitter, nothing sweet about it. I was shocked, it wasn't
:56:57. > :57:01.the feeling I had got from travelling around the entire
:57:02. > :57:05.country. Didn't see much of you during the election campaign and the
:57:06. > :57:11.Prime Minister was planning to sack you. Did you have a conversation
:57:12. > :57:16.with her? I am not going to repeat to you the private conversation I
:57:17. > :57:20.had with Theresa May on Friday. It is true that my role in the election
:57:21. > :57:25.campaign was not the one I would have liked it to be. I did a lot of
:57:26. > :57:28.travelling around the country, I met lots of interesting people and heard
:57:29. > :57:34.interesting stories. I would have liked to have made much more of our
:57:35. > :57:40.economic record which I think is an excellent one, creating 2.9 million
:57:41. > :57:44.jobs, getting the deficit down by three quarters. It was Nick Timothy
:57:45. > :57:48.and Fiona Hill keeping you off the airwaves? I'm not going to speculate
:57:49. > :57:53.about what happened inside the campaign team. My judgment is we
:57:54. > :57:58.didn't talk about the economy as much as we should have done... And
:57:59. > :58:04.do you think Theresa May recognises that was a mistake now? Didn't put
:58:05. > :58:07.enough energy into dismantling Jeremy Corbyn's spending plans,
:58:08. > :58:14.which would be catastrophic for the country, and we will now do that. We
:58:15. > :58:19.will address the plans Jeremy Corbyn set out in his manifesto and take
:58:20. > :58:23.them apart. Very often described as a terrible campaign since, if it had
:58:24. > :58:28.more economics and Philip Hammond in it, would it have been a better
:58:29. > :58:32.campaign? Focusing on our strengths is always the right way to campaign,
:58:33. > :58:36.economic competence has always been one of the great Conservative 's
:58:37. > :58:40.strengths and we have an excellent economic record. I would have liked
:58:41. > :58:43.to have highlighted that and I think if we have focused on that we
:58:44. > :58:50.probably would have done better in the election than we did. How long
:58:51. > :58:54.has Theresa May got? I think what the country needs now is a period of
:58:55. > :58:59.calm where we get on with the job in hand. We have some serious issues to
:59:00. > :59:03.address including Brexit negotiations just starting. Theresa
:59:04. > :59:07.May is leading the Government and I think the Government needs to get on
:59:08. > :59:10.with its job and I think that's what most people in this country will
:59:11. > :59:16.think. The Government needs to get on with the day job of government.
:59:17. > :59:17.Philip Hammond, thank you very much indeed.
:59:18. > :59:21.Thanks to all my guests in what has been a genuinely horrible week.
:59:22. > :59:24.Happy the country whose politics and political programmes