:00:07. > :00:12.Good morning, if the government is to deliver a decent exit from the
:00:13. > :00:15.year, and talks start again tomorrow morning, the first thing it has to
:00:16. > :00:19.do is stick together. Precious little sign of that this morning,
:00:20. > :00:24.Sunday papers brimming with the most poisonous cabinet briefings and
:00:25. > :00:26.feuds since the referendum result. In the cross hairs of the worst of
:00:27. > :00:47.the sniping, the Chancellor. So I am pleased that Philip Hammond,
:00:48. > :00:53.Chancellor of the Exchequer, joins us this morning to talk politics,
:00:54. > :00:57.public sector pay, and Brexit. If the Tories go on for much longer
:00:58. > :01:00.like this we may see this man in number 11, John McDonnell, wouldn't
:01:01. > :01:11.that mean higher taxes and even more debt? And we will be joined by the
:01:12. > :01:19.great conductor Daniel Barenboim, on his love of the Proms and how he is
:01:20. > :01:25.keeping alive the memory of Jacqueline du Pre. She had something
:01:26. > :01:29.absolutely unique, as if music spoke to her. You could say that I love
:01:30. > :01:40.her, and I do. And since we are feeling classical, there will be
:01:41. > :01:50.some Mozart, as well, reviewing the news, I'm joined the former Labour
:01:51. > :01:56.adviser and stand-up comedian, Ayesha Hazarika, former Tory
:01:57. > :01:59.minister Iain Duncan Smith and refereeing the both of them, Jane
:02:00. > :02:04.Moore. The Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,
:02:05. > :02:07.has said those found guilty of acid attacks should "feel
:02:08. > :02:10.the full force of the law", after last week's series
:02:11. > :02:12.of attacks in London. There were more than four-hundred
:02:13. > :02:14.assaults involving corrosive substances in England and Wales
:02:15. > :02:16.in the six months to April, according to the latest
:02:17. > :02:18.official figures. The Home Office also wants to work
:02:19. > :02:20.with retailers to restrict British politics is at a "dangerous
:02:21. > :02:24.moment" because of the abuse and intimidation of MPs,
:02:25. > :02:26.according to the Chairman of the Committee on
:02:27. > :02:28.Standards in Public Life. Lord Bew told BBC Radio 4's
:02:29. > :02:31.The Westminster Hour that new laws may be necessary to protect
:02:32. > :02:33.politicians and ensure that people are not put off entering
:02:34. > :02:39.a career in elected office. The Turkish President has addressed
:02:40. > :02:42.two huge rallies overnight, in which more than 250
:02:43. > :02:46.people were killed. Mr Erdogan has seen
:02:47. > :02:48.significant gains in his presidential powers
:02:49. > :02:50.since the coup was defeated. Thousands of suspected supporters
:02:51. > :02:53.of the plot have since been arrested and the president has now backed
:02:54. > :03:05.the death penalty for coup plotters. The development of Artificial
:03:06. > :03:09.Intelligence has become the greatest according to the technology
:03:10. > :03:15.entrepreneur Elon Musk. who co-founded the car company
:03:16. > :03:23.Tesla, made the comments
:03:24. > :03:26.at a gathering of US lawmakers. He warned politicians should start
:03:27. > :03:28.realising the threat posed by machines taking
:03:29. > :03:33.over their human creators. Later today, Doctor Who fans
:03:34. > :03:37.will find out who will emerge from the Tardis as the thirteenth
:03:38. > :03:39.Time Lord. It's followed endless
:03:40. > :03:41.speculation about who will The big reveal will take place
:03:42. > :03:44.after the Wimbledon men's singles The next news on BBC One is at
:03:45. > :04:05.12.15. The main story in the Sunday Times,
:04:06. > :04:11.the Chancellor says the public sector is overpaid, he described
:04:12. > :04:19.public sector workers as overpaid, we will ask about that.
:04:20. > :04:26.The former head of the civil service, Gus O'Donnell, warning
:04:27. > :04:30.Theresa May, the Prime Minister, of chaos over X it, partly because of
:04:31. > :04:42.the rows I was discussing early on. The mail on Sunday French lot to
:04:43. > :04:55.wreck the heart of London. -- chaos over Brexit.
:04:56. > :05:01.are Ayesha Hazarika, Jane Moore and Iain Duncan Smith.
:05:02. > :05:07.Three men with revolvers all pointed at each other. This is a very big
:05:08. > :05:13.story by Tim Shipman, Spectator summer party, on Thursday night, I'm
:05:14. > :05:23.afraid there was more drama in it than on Love Island, there really
:05:24. > :05:27.was, less love, more press echo -- more prosecco, this is
:05:28. > :05:36.extraordinary, Tim Shipman wrote a book called All That War and it
:05:37. > :05:44.looks like that has broken out. Theresa May is now in a leadership
:05:45. > :05:47.contest, people briefing against David Davis and Boris Johnson, but
:05:48. > :05:51.the person most in the firing line is the Chancellor Philip Hammond,
:05:52. > :05:57.you have on your show today. People leaking against him about cabinet.
:05:58. > :06:01.-- All Out War. In specific terms, to moments in cabinet last week,
:06:02. > :06:06.where he allegedly said something that went straight to the press. He
:06:07. > :06:10.said two things, he thought public sector pay workers were overpaid,
:06:11. > :06:19.and that for some reason, women could not drive trains... He denies
:06:20. > :06:24.this. This week we have had a rather unseemly row in the Conservative
:06:25. > :06:28.Party about the use of the N-word and once again they are showing
:06:29. > :06:32.themselves to be out of touch. He says this is untrue, that this has
:06:33. > :06:37.been overhyped, but political editor Tim Shipman took to Twitter and
:06:38. > :06:41.said, he is getting this is the bait and from people, this is one of the
:06:42. > :06:46.most bizarrely entertaining weeks I have had as a political editor,
:06:47. > :06:51.seething rivalry. -- getting this the bait. Things are bad for Theresa
:06:52. > :06:56.May, I'm sorry to do this, but things are so bad that in the
:06:57. > :06:58.Telegraph there is a story saying that this is reminiscent of Iain
:06:59. > :07:12.Duncan Smith! -- getting this verbatim. That is how bad things
:07:13. > :07:16.are. You went through a very torrid time, you know what it is like. The
:07:17. > :07:21.honest point, I know this makes a great cover, but there is a great
:07:22. > :07:25.divide in the Conservative Party on another level, some of them in the
:07:26. > :07:28.cabinet and the rest of the backbenchers, because it is quite
:07:29. > :07:32.interesting, a lot of the new generation have come in and are
:07:33. > :07:36.seething me furious with what this is representing at the moment. Their
:07:37. > :07:41.view is, they want Theresa May to get through the Brexit stuff, and
:07:42. > :07:45.she has already set at some point she will step down, their view, none
:07:46. > :07:49.of the above, at some point, maybe some the else will step through.
:07:50. > :07:55.Generational question, these people may be too old. Some of the people I
:07:56. > :07:58.see them running around the place, it is reminiscent of the same people
:07:59. > :08:04.running around when I was the leader. For once, shut up, for gods
:08:05. > :08:10.sake, let everybody get on with the of governing. There will not be a
:08:11. > :08:14.leadership election, I can promise you that, because there is no mood
:08:15. > :08:17.in the Conservative Party in parliament for a leadership
:08:18. > :08:21.election, they know what the problem is, unusual thing happening at the
:08:22. > :08:25.moment, it's called Brexit, it has a timetable, you cannot afford it to
:08:26. > :08:30.be broken into by a Conservative leadership election, we have to get
:08:31. > :08:35.through that, first and foremost, there is a chance to do their jobs.
:08:36. > :08:39.As an ardent Brexiteer, do you look at this stuff and say, this kind of
:08:40. > :08:44.cabinet dispute could wreck our chances of a good deal? Certainly
:08:45. > :08:47.doesn't help but the classic summer stuff, getting through this, get
:08:48. > :08:52.through conference, get forward. My general view is, all of this stuff
:08:53. > :08:57.does nobody any good, and everybody a bit of harm. We have lots of stuff
:08:58. > :09:02.we may want to talk about with regard to Labour policies, in the
:09:03. > :09:06.meantime... I don't think that we can just take for granted that there
:09:07. > :09:10.will not be a leadership contest. You may like to see one... We would
:09:11. > :09:13.all like to see one! I think there's so much briefing going wrong, can
:09:14. > :09:18.these men be restrained from their ambition? The backbenchers, I
:09:19. > :09:23.categorically tell you right now, there is no support for this to take
:09:24. > :09:27.place, honestly, I have been through this, I have seen it before, you
:09:28. > :09:35.know when there is a groundswell rumbling. You thought you would
:09:36. > :09:40.survive conference, you were gone... In the middle of all of this, can I
:09:41. > :09:43.just date, political journalists, people working behind the scenes and
:09:44. > :09:47.at the front of politics get very excited about this kind of story but
:09:48. > :09:52.meanwhile the British public, who voted for Brexit, in numbers
:09:53. > :09:57.unprecedented in British political history, biggest vote ever, are
:09:58. > :10:04.going: why the hell are they not getting on with it? It is like a
:10:05. > :10:09.group of car dealers... Gus O'Donnell, in the Observer, he talks
:10:10. > :10:13.about, the former cabinet secretary, of course, he is writing about this
:10:14. > :10:21.and the job that his successor, Jeremy Hayward faces. The National
:10:22. > :10:27.Audit Office, has waded in to say, this is like falling apart of a
:10:28. > :10:30.chocolate orange. All these pieces... And suddenly, somebody
:10:31. > :10:35.needs to come in and say, here is the foil, we need to stick together.
:10:36. > :10:40.It is ridiculous. Saying that David Davis would have been better suited,
:10:41. > :10:47.cordon aiding policy from the Cabinet Office, rather than having a
:10:48. > :10:51.ministerial post on Brexit. He's pretty much there, that is where his
:10:52. > :10:59.office stands. Coming back to the simple point I make, as a
:11:00. > :11:04.backbencher, I promise you, right now, it is not... They are getting
:11:05. > :11:11.some pretty strong messages at the moment. Photograph of John Landsman,
:11:12. > :11:14.founder of momentum, I was at university within, I keep warmly and
:11:15. > :11:21.Cordelia inviting him onto the show full there he is, looking quite
:11:22. > :11:27.tough. This is a relatively rare interview with him, about momentum.
:11:28. > :11:31.Quite interesting, this story, underneath some of the other stuff
:11:32. > :11:35.going on, there is a real issue, about the way in which, in a sense,
:11:36. > :11:41.some of this politics has shifted, the arrival of momentum, the
:11:42. > :11:46.election was a debate about growing violence... Conservative MPs are
:11:47. > :11:50.worried about the nature and the way in which the campaigning starts but
:11:51. > :11:54.also Labour MPs, I know a lot of Labour MPs, who feel deeply
:11:55. > :11:58.threatened by him to get them out and do nothing else but target
:11:59. > :12:04.people who they don't think our supporters of Jeremy Corbyn. This
:12:05. > :12:07.will grow, this story, it is a party that at some stage has got to
:12:08. > :12:12.confront the idea of a party within a party. I wish he was here the sofa
:12:13. > :12:16.to defend himself, momentum are the people who helped mobilise half a
:12:17. > :12:22.million young voters, they helped Jeremy Corbyn, extraordinary
:12:23. > :12:27.political phenomenon. My personal view is it is the growth of a party
:12:28. > :12:30.in a party and what is interesting here, talking about taking control
:12:31. > :12:35.of leadership elections, nominations, who should become MPs,
:12:36. > :12:45.all of this is a real push for power, which is quite interesting.
:12:46. > :12:49.Where is the Labour Party in this? Anybody in politics, anyone,
:12:50. > :12:52.particularly women, particularly somebody from a BAME background,
:12:53. > :12:57.there is a lot of abuse going around, I get as much abuse from the
:12:58. > :13:02.right as I do from the left, and it is incumbent on all political
:13:03. > :13:06.leaders to make a stand on this, and say, abuse against anybody is not
:13:07. > :13:11.acceptable. I think there are guidelines going to the Labour NEC
:13:12. > :13:17.to look at this. It is easy to demonise momentum. But... Jeremy
:13:18. > :13:20.Corbyn did create an incredible amount of enthusiasm at the general
:13:21. > :13:26.election, he led with ideas, he did mobilise young people who don't
:13:27. > :13:31.normally come out to vote. It is not all malign, some of it is positive,
:13:32. > :13:36.some of it is about people being energised. Your seat, once a Tory
:13:37. > :13:43.stronghold, is now a marginal. Let's move on. I think there is a party
:13:44. > :13:44.within every party, in the Conservative, there are hardline
:13:45. > :13:46.Eurosceptic backbenchers who have been a party within a party for
:13:47. > :13:53.decades. This is an organised movement, it is
:13:54. > :14:00.nothing like that in the Conservative. A more traditional
:14:01. > :14:04.party within a party, this is interesting, in the mail on Sunday,
:14:05. > :14:10.about France trying to Nick the financial heart of the City of
:14:11. > :14:15.London and plonk it in Paris. Leaked memo from Jeremy Brown, former Lib
:14:16. > :14:19.Dem MP, envoy now for the city, he says, the French are going to play
:14:20. > :14:24.hardball on Brexit, they do not want a soft Brexit, they see the
:14:25. > :14:28.opportunity, London is the top city at the moment for financial services
:14:29. > :14:34.and they think Paris could steal that away and they feel quite, you
:14:35. > :14:39.know, quite motivated to do this. They want the maximum amount of
:14:40. > :14:45.chaos. Is this a story? I'm surprised people think this is a
:14:46. > :14:48.story, we did this six months ago. When we are told... When we are told
:14:49. > :14:52.Brexit will be straightforward and simple, Walling on from what Jane
:14:53. > :14:56.was saying about the Gus O'Donnell story, what we have to realise, we
:14:57. > :15:00.do not have all the power in these negotiations, the EU will have to
:15:01. > :15:04.make a decision about yes, trade is very valuable, but they will want to
:15:05. > :15:09.make an example of us to show to other countries. We do not have the
:15:10. > :15:14.power when we go forward with a war in cabinet, cabinet looking so weak.
:15:15. > :15:19.Coming back to the story, you could have written this story two years
:15:20. > :15:23.ago. What has been going on, France has been endlessly trying to attack
:15:24. > :15:29.the City of London and take business away, this is not new. And by the
:15:30. > :15:34.way... We are running out of time, we'll move on to a couple more
:15:35. > :15:39.stories. 6 million, you have to learn, to learn a million. That is
:15:40. > :15:44.the thing. The big story in London, the acid attack. I have a horrible
:15:45. > :15:45.feeling it will get more widespread. Amber Rudd has written in the Sunday
:15:46. > :16:06.Times: Of course it is another thing to
:16:07. > :16:10.deal with, with everything else we have got going on, because these
:16:11. > :16:14.kids, I think because they think stop and search now I can't
:16:15. > :16:17.harmonise, they are using sports drinks bottles and this is now their
:16:18. > :16:23.weapon of choice so it is horrendous. They were attacking
:16:24. > :16:27.delivery drivers, stealing their motorbikes and then carrying out
:16:28. > :16:35.more attacks. Speaking of bad stuff happening, nowhere is worse on the
:16:36. > :16:39.planet now than Mosul. As an ex-soldier I can tell you the worst
:16:40. > :16:47.thing you ever have to do is fight in a city in a built-up environment
:16:48. > :16:53.because the devastation, the end -- the violence... People start to lose
:16:54. > :17:00.track of human rights issues and you are seeing it, almost the reaction
:17:01. > :17:05.from many who occupied it is little or no sense that people they capture
:17:06. > :17:10.now should be dealt with in any humane way. I don't say this is
:17:11. > :17:14.going on with any tacit approval but it's almost be expected. The
:17:15. > :17:21.devastation is astonishing. What it'll say, and there's a story about
:17:22. > :17:25.this in the papers, that the whole idea of ISIS doesn't exist because
:17:26. > :17:28.they had amassed army to go, they only moved into Iraq because the
:17:29. > :17:33.Sunni Muslims decided they had been so oppressed by the existing
:17:34. > :17:40.government that they all turned to Isil. How does Iraq govern itself
:17:41. > :17:45.after this if all we see is factionalised anger? Good question.
:17:46. > :17:51.Everyone on the edges of the seat wondering who will be the next
:17:52. > :17:56.Doctor Who. It is so exciting and they will announce it after
:17:57. > :18:00.Wimbledon, which makes you think maybe it will be Roger Federer!
:18:01. > :18:05.There's lots of speculation that it might be a woman and I would love to
:18:06. > :18:11.see that because women can drive cars and trains, they can definitely
:18:12. > :18:18.be Doctor Who as well. But isn't Doctor Who traditionally a man? I
:18:19. > :18:22.don't understand why it has to be a woman. Doctor Who is a shape
:18:23. > :18:34.shifter, it could be a woman. We have run out of time. Oh, no! I have
:18:35. > :18:38.to confess, I got up this morning, put on the wrong pair of trousers!
:18:39. > :18:42.Good luck for your gig. Will the roof on centre
:18:43. > :18:46.court be open? I'm joined from Wimbledon this
:18:47. > :18:54.morning by Sarah Keith-Lucas. The roof is open at the moment over
:18:55. > :18:58.Centre court, we have some sunshine out there. There is rain in the
:18:59. > :19:02.forecast later in the day so we could see the roof closing at some
:19:03. > :19:07.point. Across the country it is a north-south split to the weather. In
:19:08. > :19:11.many southern parts we will see quite a lot of cloud, the chance of
:19:12. > :19:16.a few spots of rain but certainly sunny spells further north. There
:19:17. > :19:20.will be that thick cloud in the south bringing drizzle. In the
:19:21. > :19:25.south-west of England this morning we have low cloud, it is drizzly and
:19:26. > :19:30.damp. Sunny spells across the south-east where it is fine and dry.
:19:31. > :19:35.Moving north across the country, in the Midlands there could be a slight
:19:36. > :19:39.spots of rain, but further north, much of northern England, Scotland
:19:40. > :19:44.and Northern Ireland it is a fine day ahead. Just the odd light shower
:19:45. > :19:48.across parts of Scotland where it will be quite breezy too. Lighter
:19:49. > :20:02.winds through the course of the day and would keep the
:20:03. > :20:06.sunshine in the north, cloudy skies sinking south into the London region
:20:07. > :20:09.by about four o'clock in the afternoon where we have a chance of
:20:10. > :20:11.a light shower or two. Into the evening hours, the cloud in the
:20:12. > :20:14.south drifts away so we have clear and dry weather for much of the
:20:15. > :20:16.country overnight. Some rain for Scotland, and temperatures holding
:20:17. > :20:21.out to around 12 - 14 degrees. Tomorrow starts off on the dry and
:20:22. > :20:25.bright note, and the weather is set fair with light winds, a bit breezy
:20:26. > :20:31.for the north of Scotland, but it will be warming up with temperatures
:20:32. > :20:34.reaching 26 degrees in the south, 20 degrees in parts of Northern Ireland
:20:35. > :20:38.and Scotland. Another warm day on Tuesday but watch out for heavy
:20:39. > :20:41.thundery showers in the south. Andrew.
:20:42. > :20:43.Sounds very much like July. Now a look at what's coming up
:20:44. > :20:58.straight after this programme. Is it time to re-wild the British
:20:59. > :21:01.countryside? And priests won't need ropes... Are we dressing down too
:21:02. > :21:05.much? Join us at ten o'clock. So, as we've heard, one of the big
:21:06. > :21:08.stories of the morning There are millions of people
:21:09. > :21:11.who presumably hope that if Labour doesn make it into power anytime
:21:12. > :21:14.soon, their pay packets will go up. Labour also has questions
:21:15. > :21:20.to answer, and I'm joined by the Shadow Chancellor John
:21:21. > :21:27.McDonnell. Can I ask you first of all, if you
:21:28. > :21:32.are public sector worker and you are watching this programme, what can
:21:33. > :21:37.you expect from a Labour government? We will end the pericarp. We have
:21:38. > :21:41.set aside 4 billion by the end of the Parliament on annual basis to
:21:42. > :21:47.allow that to happen. We have looked at forecast about how he will rise
:21:48. > :21:50.and it will certainly match inflation, and some review bodies,
:21:51. > :21:54.because it will be set by review bodies, I think will try to
:21:55. > :21:58.compensate some of the losses over the last seven years. Again, we are
:21:59. > :22:06.very clear, unlike the Government which has set a cap the review
:22:07. > :22:09.bodies have to follow, it will be up to the review bodies to make
:22:10. > :22:11.recommendations that we will adhere to. You will write letters to the
:22:12. > :22:15.review body setting overall recommendations, don't you think
:22:16. > :22:19.public sector workers deserve a little bit more than inflation,
:22:20. > :22:24.actually pay rise? I do but that will be up to the review bodies.
:22:25. > :22:29.What I won't be doing is writing to the review bodies as this Government
:22:30. > :22:34.have done and say you can review the paper but only go up by 1% which
:22:35. > :22:38.effectively means a pay cut. So you would raise public sector pay. What
:22:39. > :22:43.we don't know these would erase it so it is in line with private sector
:22:44. > :22:47.pay by and large? These review bodies will have to look at these
:22:48. > :22:51.factors, what's happening in the private sector and the economy
:22:52. > :22:56.overall, and come up with their judgment about what they think is
:22:57. > :23:00.best. What we cannot do is set in an envelope which is unreal in relation
:23:01. > :23:03.to what people are learning. The real question is how much you will
:23:04. > :23:09.give these people because if you are going to match private sector pay,
:23:10. > :23:12.that rises to about 9 billion a year and that's money that is not
:23:13. > :23:18.budgeted for in your manifesto. Are you prepared to spend money beyond
:23:19. > :23:21.the manifesto? The figures of these, the Government said a pay cut would
:23:22. > :23:33.save them 5 billion so they think the cost of overcoming that a cap is
:23:34. > :23:37.1.2 billion a year. Some of that multinational insurance payments
:23:38. > :23:45.paid back to government as well. We will make sure people get a fair pay
:23:46. > :23:50.rise, they won't get a pay cut as a result of inflation. One of the
:23:51. > :23:56.issues we have got now... All I'm saying is that is extra money beyond
:23:57. > :24:09.what you have budgeted for. We have taken the OBR figures on pay rises.
:24:10. > :24:15.To be clear, to match inflation cost 4 billion, but... We have looked at
:24:16. > :24:19.the OBR's predictions on pay rises in the future. The issue for us is
:24:20. > :24:28.how do we make sure people get proper pay because at the moment we
:24:29. > :24:31.cannot retain staff. We assess that if public pay setting is delegated
:24:32. > :24:34.to the review bodies by the Labour Party, you suggest the bodies would
:24:35. > :24:38.be likely to increase public sector pay in line with private sector pay
:24:39. > :24:45.and our analysis implies that additional 9.2 billion a year they
:24:46. > :24:48.save for the higher cost... The IFF have come out with that figure and
:24:49. > :24:53.what we have said to them is actually we are following the OBR,
:24:54. > :25:03.the Government does own body that recommends to the Government what it
:25:04. > :25:11.should be. However on the IFA is -- IFS figures, they haven't accounted
:25:12. > :25:15.for the tax that will come back. We have pitched hours at 4 billion
:25:16. > :25:21.based upon the Office for Budget Responsibility. But that doesn't
:25:22. > :25:26.allow for a pay rise. Yes it does, the OBR figures are based on their
:25:27. > :25:30.prediction of wages rising. You will have seen Angela Rayner sitting in
:25:31. > :25:33.that chair last week and she was talking about Jeremy Corbyn's
:25:34. > :25:37.promised at the electorate a few days before the election he was
:25:38. > :25:41.looking at wiping out historic debt accumulated by students and she said
:25:42. > :25:48.that would cost around 100 billion. Is that the figure you recognise?
:25:49. > :25:52.Yes, it is a lot of money, the system is imploding. Half the
:25:53. > :25:57.student debt we now know will not be paid back so the system itself is
:25:58. > :26:01.falling apart. We will be inviting people to come and advise us and we
:26:02. > :26:07.tried to do that using economists from across the piece... But you
:26:08. > :26:13.will try to pay off the historic debt? We will look at what we can
:26:14. > :26:18.do. It sounded like a promise at the time, that's the problem. Jeremy
:26:19. > :26:23.said we recognise people are coming out of college now with debts of
:26:24. > :26:27.?50,000. They cannot even think of getting a property so we have to
:26:28. > :26:32.tackle that but the system has got to be tackled anyway because it is
:26:33. > :26:36.falling apart. A very simple question, for students who have
:26:37. > :26:39.accumulated debt in this country, would a future Labour government
:26:40. > :26:44.help them out by at least dealing with some of that? We are going to
:26:45. > :26:49.try to. It's a real ambition of hours. I'm not going to promise
:26:50. > :26:53.something we cannot deliver. What Jeremy said is we will try and
:26:54. > :26:56.tackle this issue and one of the reasons we have got to tackle it is
:26:57. > :27:03.because the system itself is collapsing. The reason I'm asking...
:27:04. > :27:08.Andrew Adonis wrote last week saying the system has got to be scrapped as
:27:09. > :27:13.it's not working, the person who created it. This felt like a
:27:14. > :27:18.promise, it was made in the new musical express, read by huge
:27:19. > :27:24.numbers of young people, and younger voters thought it was a promise but
:27:25. > :27:27.it sounds like a vague aspiration. What we said in manifesto about
:27:28. > :27:32.scrapping tuition fees, we will do that. If we can help with the debt
:27:33. > :27:36.we certainly will, and we have said clearly because the system is
:27:37. > :27:42.collapsing, whoever is in Government has got to tackle this. Can I go
:27:43. > :27:48.back to this issue low pay? Please do. I was at Barts Hospital
:27:49. > :27:54.yesterday with the cleaners who are now on strike a cost they asked for
:27:55. > :27:59.30p an hour extra and they were refused it. One of the cleaners gave
:28:00. > :28:06.me a payslip, this is a payslip copy. This woman, full-time worker,
:28:07. > :28:20.earns ?297 a week. At the moment median rent is ?350. Ask Philip
:28:21. > :28:26.Hammond if he can live on that. If I can I will. Let me return to the
:28:27. > :28:32.question of overall Labour spending. The IFS has said Labour would spend
:28:33. > :28:37.at record levels in peace time, the tax burden would increase to its
:28:38. > :28:45.highest level since 1949. That's why a lot of people looked to you and
:28:46. > :28:51.Jeremy Corbyn and flinched. Where is that tax for falling? 97% of people
:28:52. > :28:57.will not have any increase in income tax or VAT or national insurance. We
:28:58. > :29:03.are asking two groups to pay more, the top 5% of earners but also the
:29:04. > :29:06.corporations. The corporations have had their taxes cut by this
:29:07. > :29:10.Government on a scale we have never seen before in history and as result
:29:11. > :29:19.of that we are not getting business investment. They are sitting the
:29:20. > :29:23.billions of pounds of income not invested. We believe the richest and
:29:24. > :29:27.the corporations should pay a bit more. The resolution foundation
:29:28. > :29:33.report this week said after the recession ten years ago, 1%, the
:29:34. > :29:39.richest in our country now, have recovered. The 99% are still
:29:40. > :29:43.suffering. One of the figures was 42%, so nearly half the people in
:29:44. > :29:51.this country cannot afford a holiday this year, that is scandalous. Let
:29:52. > :29:56.me ask about corporations -- corporation tax. Do you believe
:29:57. > :30:01.leaving the customs union would be disastrous for British business? I
:30:02. > :30:05.believe we have to try and maintain the benefits of the customs union
:30:06. > :30:12.and that's one of the issues we have got to negotiate. Does that mean
:30:13. > :30:14.staying inside or leaving? Keep all the options open. We are
:30:15. > :30:20.concentrating on the objectives rather than the structures and that
:30:21. > :30:23.seems to have a resonance across Europe at the moment. What about the
:30:24. > :30:27.transitional arrangements because a lot of businesses want to
:30:28. > :30:31.effectively stay inside the EU for maybe five years ahead so they can
:30:32. > :30:37.plan for the exit. Most of the businesses I have been talking to
:30:38. > :30:40.say they need at least a two year transitional period. Everyone
:30:41. > :30:43.realises that has to be a transitional period, that is what we
:30:44. > :30:47.are pressing the Government on. When it comes to what happens in the
:30:48. > :30:50.House of Commons, you want the Conservatives to collapse and have a
:30:51. > :30:54.general election soon but there is no necessary sign of that. They
:30:55. > :30:59.could carry on for five years so inside the House of Commons you can
:31:00. > :31:02.exercise some pressure as the opposition party. Do you use that to
:31:03. > :31:08.get a different kind of Brexit? we have got, Conservative cabinet
:31:09. > :31:11.fighting like rats in a sack, Europeans want to know what the
:31:12. > :31:15.direction is, what is the negotiating position. There is a
:31:16. > :31:18.different negotiating position virtually every day coming out of
:31:19. > :31:23.this government's cabinet, it is falling apart, in the interests of
:31:24. > :31:26.the country, my view is they should stand down and let us form a
:31:27. > :31:30.government so we can negotiate Brexit in the interests of this
:31:31. > :31:34.country, protecting jobs and the economy. If they don't do that in
:31:35. > :31:38.the House of Commons, we will try to get a majority of MPs to vote for a
:31:39. > :31:42.sensible Brexit stop what do you saying that the people killed in
:31:43. > :31:46.Grenfell Tower were killed by political murder. Now I do not, I
:31:47. > :31:53.was extremely angry, I am a west London MP, this site is not far,
:31:54. > :31:59.political decisions were made which resulted in the deaths of these
:32:00. > :32:03.people was a scandal. Murder means a political decision, and intentional
:32:04. > :32:06.killing. There is a long history in this country of the concept of
:32:07. > :32:10.social murder, where decisions are made with no regard for the
:32:11. > :32:16.consequences of that, and as a result of that, it will have
:32:17. > :32:20.suffered. That is what I think. Do you regard it as murder? I believe
:32:21. > :32:25.that social murder occurred in this instance and people should be held
:32:26. > :32:28.accountable. Who are the murders? A lot of political decisions over the
:32:29. > :32:32.years have not addressed the housing problems we have had, cutting back
:32:33. > :32:37.on local government, cutting back 11,000 firefighters, jobs cut as
:32:38. > :32:40.well, even investment in aerial ladders and things like that in our
:32:41. > :32:45.country. The politicians who sanctioned the cuts are murderers. I
:32:46. > :32:48.believe they have to be held to account, I remain angry at how may
:32:49. > :32:54.people have lost their lives as a result of political decisions made
:32:55. > :32:58.over the years. To be clear, these decisions happened under Labour and
:32:59. > :33:02.Tory governments, over the years, over the years. I set up the Fire
:33:03. > :33:06.Brigades union is Parliamentary group back in 2004 I raised the
:33:07. > :33:09.issue of sprinklers, all through the last seven years in particular I
:33:10. > :33:15.have been going along with ministers on behalf of the FT you saying, stop
:33:16. > :33:22.cutting jobs, stop undermining national standards, and nobly was
:33:23. > :33:27.listening. -- FBU. Strong word to use, but murder is is how you regard
:33:28. > :33:32.it? I do not move back from what I said, and I remain angry at the loss
:33:33. > :33:34.of life that has taken place not far from my constituency. John
:33:35. > :33:53.McDonnell, thank you for talking with us.
:33:54. > :33:54.Daniel Barenboim has long been a towering
:33:55. > :33:58.A revered conductor and pianist as well as an ardent advocate of how
:33:59. > :34:01.music can bridge divides, even between Israel and Palestine.
:34:02. > :34:02.Remarkably, he's a citizen of both places.
:34:03. > :34:05.His return to the Proms is a real highlight of this season,
:34:06. > :34:07.a programme that includes Elgar, Sibelius and a new
:34:08. > :34:11.When we met, Barenboim told me why he's loved the Proms ever
:34:12. > :34:14.since he and his late wife, cellist Jacqueline Du Pre,
:34:15. > :34:36.used to queue up for tickets in 1960's London.
:34:37. > :34:40.The Proms have a unique atmosphere, there's nowhere in the world...
:34:41. > :34:43.And the extraordinary thing is I lived in England for many years
:34:44. > :34:46.in the past, and I'm very much aware that programmes at the Proms
:34:47. > :34:48.are wonderfully varied, and really don't shy away
:34:49. > :35:07.from contemporary music and all types of music.
:35:08. > :35:21.It's not the public that goes to the festival during the winter.
:35:22. > :35:24.-- It's not the public that goes to the Festival Hall during the winter.
:35:25. > :35:26.I've always asked myself, what do these people,
:35:27. > :35:29.these 5,000 who have come daily to the Proms and listen so
:35:30. > :35:31.attentively and are so enthusiastic, what they do for music the rest
:35:32. > :35:54.Now you're doing another concert later in the year
:35:55. > :35:57.at the Royal Festival Hall for a rather sad reason.
:35:58. > :35:59.It's 30 years since Jacqueline du Pre died, and you're doing
:36:00. > :36:01.a concert raising money for multiple sclerosis.
:36:02. > :36:04.Can you just tell us a little bit about the reasons
:36:05. > :36:11.Jacqueline suffered from multiple sclerosis for 18 years
:36:12. > :36:20.And I was therefore in very close contact
:36:21. > :36:22.with the cruelty of this illness,
:36:23. > :36:24.because it is an illness that affects everything
:36:25. > :36:42.The illness itself is as much a mystery today as it was then.
:36:43. > :36:45.There's over 100,000 in Great Britain that suffer from MS
:36:46. > :37:02.and it's absolutely imperative that money is raised for the research.
:37:03. > :37:06.Otherwise it will be at a standstill.
:37:07. > :37:11.And can you remember when you first saw something
:37:12. > :37:15.She had lost the feeling on certain parts of her body,
:37:16. > :37:18.and at first we didn't pay much attention to it but it got more
:37:19. > :37:32.She was still able to play for another two years, but then it
:37:33. > :37:34.affected her hands and she had to stop playing
:37:35. > :37:39.She picked up the bow and she didn't know whether they weighed 50 grams
:37:40. > :37:41.or 50 kilos and therefore she was unable to.
:37:42. > :37:44.She was your beloved wife, she was also an extraordinary
:37:45. > :37:49.can you explain to people watching why she was such a beloved
:37:50. > :37:59.You would think I say this because I loved her, and I still do,
:38:00. > :38:01.but I think quite objectively, musically speaking, she had
:38:02. > :38:04.something absolutely unique, as if music spoke to her in a way,
:38:05. > :38:47.in indirect way as it doesn't normally.
:38:48. > :38:50.With her it was something absolutely directly put in front of her.
:38:51. > :38:52.A piece of music she didn't know that she had never
:38:53. > :38:54.played and never heard, and somehow the essence
:38:55. > :39:01.of the piece, the essence of the piece came out.
:39:02. > :39:04.One final question if I may, I think you're one of the only
:39:05. > :39:07.people in the world who has both Israeli and Palestinian citizenship.
:39:08. > :39:09.You want to take your Berlin orchestra to Iran,
:39:10. > :39:16.they have called you an agent of Zionism,
:39:17. > :39:19.and so you are attacked in Israel for being anti-Israeli
:39:20. > :39:23.and you are attacked in Iran for being a Zionist!
:39:24. > :39:27.And in Palestine for being a Zionist.
:39:28. > :39:30.You are getting it from all sides, what keeps you going?
:39:31. > :39:32.I think that the whole project and therefore I myself too
:39:33. > :39:43.am admired in Israel and hated in Israel.
:39:44. > :39:48.Admired in Palestine and criticised in Palestine too.
:39:49. > :39:57.So something must be right of what I do!
:39:58. > :40:00.Maestro, it's been a privilege talking to you, thank you very much.
:40:01. > :40:06.And he's conducting the Berlin Staatskapelle
:40:07. > :40:10.I should just say that tickets are now on sale for that benefit
:40:11. > :40:14.It will take place in October at the Royal Festival Hall,
:40:15. > :40:22.on the 30th anniversary of Jacqueline DuPre's death.
:40:23. > :40:26.Talking of people who are getting it from all sides...!
:40:27. > :40:28.According to repeated, if anonymous Cabinet sources overnight,
:40:29. > :40:31.the Chancellor offended some of his own colleagues at this week's
:40:32. > :40:32.political cabinet meeting by saying that public sector
:40:33. > :40:37.there's a lot of Cabinet-level malice in today's papers,
:40:38. > :40:42.but I'm now joined by the man himself to clear it up.
:40:43. > :40:51.Did you say it? I'm not going to talk about what was said and what
:40:52. > :40:53.was not said, it's easy to take something out of context, public
:40:54. > :41:00.sector pay raised ahead of private sector pay after the crash in
:41:01. > :41:03.2008/9, taking public sector pay before pension contributions, that
:41:04. > :41:07.gap is now closed, public and private sector pay on average around
:41:08. > :41:10.same level, when you take into account the very generous
:41:11. > :41:22.contributions that public sector employers to pay in for the generous
:41:23. > :41:25.pensions, they are still 10% ahead... I don't for a moment, I
:41:26. > :41:29.don't for a moment tonight there are areas in the public service where
:41:30. > :41:34.recruitment and retention is becoming an issue, that there are
:41:35. > :41:37.areas of the country where public sector wages and private sector
:41:38. > :41:42.wages are getting out of kilter in the other direction. We have to look
:41:43. > :41:45.at these things and discuss them. It is important we discuss them on the
:41:46. > :41:50.basis of the facts, not rhetoric from the Labour Party or the trade
:41:51. > :41:54.unions. Your own department denied Virgin eyes you used the word
:41:55. > :42:00.overpaid, do you think public sector workers are in general overpaid?
:42:01. > :42:04.This is a relative question, this is about the relationship between
:42:05. > :42:09.public and private sector pay, and it is a simple fact, independent
:42:10. > :42:13.figures show this, public sector workers on average are paid about
:42:14. > :42:17.10% more than private sector workers. You think relative to
:42:18. > :42:24.private sector workers, are they overpaid? Well to two private sector
:42:25. > :42:27.workers, they are paid a 10% premium, this includes pension
:42:28. > :42:30.contribution, you cannot eat your pension, you cannot feed your kids
:42:31. > :42:35.with the pension contribution, so I understand that and all the issues
:42:36. > :42:41.that other sector think of that cleaner described by John McDonnell,
:42:42. > :42:47.weekly payslip, ?297 is what she takes home, do you think that is
:42:48. > :42:50.overpaid? Of course it is not, it is very hard... John McDonnell needs to
:42:51. > :42:52.remember it was a Conservative government that introduced the
:42:53. > :42:58.national living wage and also should know that the only way that we can
:42:59. > :43:02.sustainably increase... Low pay is not just an issue in the public
:43:03. > :43:08.sector, it is an issue in the private sector. The only way that we
:43:09. > :43:12.can address that, the only way that we can address the high wage economy
:43:13. > :43:17.we want to have sustainably is to increase productivity, to get our
:43:18. > :43:23.public finances into good order, there is not a short cut. So you
:43:24. > :43:25.think in relative terms, public sector workers are overpaid and when
:43:26. > :43:29.you write letters to the pay review bodies in due course, it will be
:43:30. > :43:32.more tough messages, those people watching who are public sector
:43:33. > :43:36.workers should expect more austerity, more of the pay gap,
:43:37. > :43:41.going backwards in terms of actual pay. The policy on public sector pay
:43:42. > :43:49.has not changed, we have sought to be fair to public sector workers but
:43:50. > :43:53.also fair... Seven you freeze. Not a freeze... -- a seven-year freeze.
:43:54. > :44:00.Seven years pay restraint but also let's be clear about this, teachers
:44:01. > :44:07.in 2015/16 at a 3.3% pay increase, NHS staff last year over half of
:44:08. > :44:12.them had a pay increase averaging just over 3%, it is not the same
:44:13. > :44:17.picture across the board. But look, our position is that we have to be
:44:18. > :44:21.there to public sector workers and look at recruitment and retention
:44:22. > :44:24.problems and be fair to taxpayers and try to protect jobs in the
:44:25. > :44:31.public sector, those are the bits of the equation we had to juggle. We do
:44:32. > :44:34.keep this under constant review and the fact is well-known, the cabinet
:44:35. > :44:38.has been discussing this issue, then is a clear signal that we understand
:44:39. > :44:43.the concern, both of public sector workers and the wider public. Most
:44:44. > :44:48.people watching this interview will conclude that you said they were
:44:49. > :44:51.overpaid. I have told you, I am not going to tell you what comes out of
:44:52. > :44:55.a private cabinet meeting and they should not have leaked that, cabinet
:44:56. > :44:59.meetings are supposed to be a private space in which we have a
:45:00. > :45:02.serious discussion. I am the Chancellor, you would expect me to
:45:03. > :45:05.put in discussion about private sector pay in the context of the
:45:06. > :45:10.fiscal and economic situation that we face. Others who represent
:45:11. > :45:14.spending departments, implying large numbers of public sector workers
:45:15. > :45:18.will bring their experience and their realities to the table, that
:45:19. > :45:23.is how we have a discussion and reach a decision. This morning they
:45:24. > :45:31.have gone for you publicly, all over the newspapers, are you angry about
:45:32. > :45:33.that? I don't know who said what, my colleague David leading to appeared
:45:34. > :45:37.on your show last week was probable is spot on the money when he said we
:45:38. > :45:45.are in the middle of the silly summer season, it may have been... I
:45:46. > :45:48.was not there, but lots of parties going on, lots of tittle tattle,
:45:49. > :45:54.lots of gossip, summer recess coming up, the government... The
:45:55. > :45:58.government... I do think, on many fronts, it would be helpful if my
:45:59. > :46:02.colleagues, all of us, focused on the job in hand. This government, as
:46:03. > :46:07.Iain Duncan Smith said, is facing a ticking clock over Brexit
:46:08. > :46:10.negotiations. David Davis will be going tomorrow to Brussels to start
:46:11. > :46:18.the next round of the gauche durations. We have a crucial job to
:46:19. > :46:22.do here -- negotiations. Which protects jobs, prosperity and
:46:23. > :46:26.British businesses. That is why we should be focusing upon. They are
:46:27. > :46:32.after you in particular. Can I ask, you said that trains are so easy to
:46:33. > :46:37.drive today that even women can do it. Have you said that? Did the
:46:38. > :46:41.Prime Minister say, I am going to take your shovel away from you? I'm
:46:42. > :46:46.not going to get into what was or was not said in a cabinet meeting. I
:46:47. > :46:48.have two daughters in their early 20s, I don't think like that and
:46:49. > :47:01.would not make a remark like that. I would say it is a disgrace the 95%
:47:02. > :47:05.of train drivers are men. There is no reason why that workforce
:47:06. > :47:10.shouldn't be more gender balanced except that the unions control the
:47:11. > :47:14.recruitment and training process, and in the context of a discussion
:47:15. > :47:19.about industrial relations on the railways, I think it is very
:47:20. > :47:23.important to focus on that control that the unions have over the
:47:24. > :47:28.training process. So why are people going for you in the papers? Is
:47:29. > :47:33.there a fight for the leadership of the Conservative Party under way? I
:47:34. > :47:38.certainly hope not. If there is, I am no part of it. I think my
:47:39. > :47:42.colleagues should focus on the job we have been elected to do. This
:47:43. > :47:46.Government will be a stable government because people understand
:47:47. > :47:51.that there is a crucial job that needs to be done. They will support
:47:52. > :47:56.us while we get on with that job but they won't indulge us if we start
:47:57. > :48:01.turning our attentions elsewhere. If you want my opinion some of the
:48:02. > :48:07.noises generated by people who are not happy with the agenda that I
:48:08. > :48:13.have over the last few weeks tried to advance of ensuring that we
:48:14. > :48:17.achieve a Brexit which is focused on protecting our economy, protecting
:48:18. > :48:21.our jobs, and making sure we can have continued rising living
:48:22. > :48:26.standards in the future. So these are hard-core Brexiteers who want a
:48:27. > :48:31.hard and fast Brexit attacking you for that reason? You will have to
:48:32. > :48:35.ask Tim Shipman and Jane Forsyth who it is. Can I turn to the economy and
:48:36. > :48:42.ask about the recent OBR report which was quite worrying to a lot of
:48:43. > :48:46.people. It said the economy is in a poor condition. This was a report
:48:47. > :48:56.that we asked the OBR to produce bringing us into line with IMF
:48:57. > :48:59.guidance, to look at our position and tell us where the future risks
:49:00. > :49:03.are in our economy and I think it's a very good exercise and I very much
:49:04. > :49:12.appreciate the reports they have produced. What it warms is that the
:49:13. > :49:15.levels of debt that we have in this country on the level of deficit we
:49:16. > :49:25.are still running means that we would be vulnerable to any future
:49:26. > :49:30.shock -- warns. So we can't borrow more? That is simply the point. We
:49:31. > :49:35.wouldn't have capacity for government to intervene and protect
:49:36. > :49:40.the economy as it did in 2008/9 because our level of deficit is too
:49:41. > :49:44.high. Can I continue asking about Brexit in particular because there's
:49:45. > :49:49.report again in the papers about Paris not surprisingly trying to
:49:50. > :49:54.steal trade from the City of London. There are reports of a sharp fall in
:49:55. > :49:59.levels of investment particularly in the car industry, you are getting
:50:00. > :50:03.all of these businessmen coming to you, with reports on your table, are
:50:04. > :50:07.you worried about the state of the economy has begun through the Brexit
:50:08. > :50:14.negotiations? I think it is absolutely clear that businesses
:50:15. > :50:18.where they can hold off are doing so and you can understand why. They are
:50:19. > :50:22.waiting for more clarity about what the future relationship with Europe
:50:23. > :50:26.will look like and the way to get the economy moving, the way to
:50:27. > :50:31.restore business confidence and then consumer confidence, is to give as
:50:32. > :50:35.much clarity as possible as early as possible. Which is why I have been
:50:36. > :50:38.talking over the last four or five weeks about the importance of a
:50:39. > :50:41.transitional arrangement and I believe the great majority of my
:50:42. > :50:47.colleagues now recognise that that is the right and sensible way to go,
:50:48. > :50:52.both in the UK and the European Union. And this could go on for
:50:53. > :50:57.three or four years, a transitional arrangement? That's what business
:50:58. > :51:04.ones. In my view it needs to be a defined period, we have got to do
:51:05. > :51:07.this in a way that meet the concerns and requirements of people who want
:51:08. > :51:10.a softer version of Brexit and those who campaigned hard to leave the
:51:11. > :51:16.European Union. I think most people are willing to accept a transition
:51:17. > :51:21.so long as it is of limited duration in order to avoid... But this would
:51:22. > :51:25.be over a number of years during which in effect we would still be
:51:26. > :51:31.members of the European market, we would still be paying in and be
:51:32. > :51:36.under the ECJ. We would leave the single market when we left the
:51:37. > :51:43.European Union on the 29th of March 20 19. That is fixed. How long
:51:44. > :51:47.should a transition period be? That's a technical question, it
:51:48. > :51:51.depends how long we need to put in place new customs systems, new
:51:52. > :52:06.migration systems. These things cannot be magic up overnight. Have
:52:07. > :52:12.you any idea how long we are talking about? I think we will be talking a
:52:13. > :52:15.couple of years. But we do know for sure is that Michel Barnier and the
:52:16. > :52:19.European team desperately want to sort out the money before anything
:52:20. > :52:24.else happens. You are the man in charge of the money. Have you
:52:25. > :52:30.budgeted for an exit fee for the EU? We don't have a sum of money
:52:31. > :52:35.specifically for that purpose but our current public finances include
:52:36. > :52:40.our contributions to the European Union and what the OBR has done if
:52:41. > :52:43.you read its last report looking forward is assumed that, although
:52:44. > :52:47.those monies might be used for different purposes on domestic
:52:48. > :52:50.programmes, and continuing to contribute perhaps to some European
:52:51. > :52:56.programmes, broadly speaking the amount of money will remain the
:52:57. > :53:01.same. So they haven't budgeted a bonus for leaving the European Union
:53:02. > :53:04.but nor have they budgeted cost. Do you accept because there was a
:53:05. > :53:09.statement in the House of Lords that appeared to suggest this, that we
:53:10. > :53:13.have ongoing obligations to the EU which are financial which we must
:53:14. > :53:16.settle early in the negotiating period? We are discussing that
:53:17. > :53:20.question this week in Brussels with the European Union and what we have
:53:21. > :53:26.said repeatedly is that we are country that always honours its
:53:27. > :53:30.obligations as we expect others to honour their obligations towards us,
:53:31. > :53:33.and if there is any amount that is due when it's been properly
:53:34. > :53:42.quantified and audited, of course we will deal it. So shouldn't just go
:53:43. > :53:45.whistle for it then? If you are referring to the comment from Boris
:53:46. > :53:50.Johnson earlier in the week, he was speaking specifically about this
:53:51. > :53:56.fanciful 100 billion figure that has been bandied about. That is a
:53:57. > :54:01.ridiculous figure. Is 40 billion a ridiculous figure? I'm not going to
:54:02. > :54:06.get into a process of talking about specific figures when David Davis is
:54:07. > :54:10.about to open a negotiation in Brussels tomorrow, that would
:54:11. > :54:14.totally undermine his position. Is it possible for this Government to
:54:15. > :54:23.negotiate a proper Brexit when the Cabinet is so divided over the
:54:24. > :54:28.issue? This is a media line. I would say people are going for you that
:54:29. > :54:32.they don't like the kind of Brexit you want. The Cabinet is coming
:54:33. > :54:36.closer together on issues like transition for example. Five weeks
:54:37. > :54:41.ago the idea of a transition period was quite a new concept, now you
:54:42. > :54:44.would find that pretty much everyone around the Cabinet table accepts
:54:45. > :54:47.there will be some kind of transition. We are into a real
:54:48. > :54:54.process now with the start of negotiations and I think you will
:54:55. > :54:57.find the Cabinet rallying around a position that maximises our leverage
:54:58. > :55:05.and gets the best possible deal for Britain. Is it almost as simple as
:55:06. > :55:09.if you and David Davis can agree... We are looking to get the best
:55:10. > :55:13.possible deal for Britain and we both know that continued growth in
:55:14. > :55:17.the economy is actually the measure by which people will judge their
:55:18. > :55:21.political leaders. They can talk about a lot of other things but in
:55:22. > :55:23.the end it will be about whether they see their incomes rising, their
:55:24. > :55:28.standard of living rising, their jobs being secure and that is our
:55:29. > :55:34.objective and certainly we try to work together to agree on these
:55:35. > :55:41.things. In 2010 you warned Labour government could rise the national
:55:42. > :55:47.debt to ?1.5 trillion. What it now? It is 1.7 trillion as you know. You
:55:48. > :55:52.have done worse, that's a big failure. There were choices about
:55:53. > :55:56.how fast we wanted to do deficit reduction, how much we wanted to
:55:57. > :56:00.impose on the economy to do that. We could have done it more quickly as
:56:01. > :56:07.some countries in the European Union have done at the price of soaring
:56:08. > :56:14.unemployment. And we have a weaker economy now. We chose to protect
:56:15. > :56:17.jobs as a priority and we have done brilliantly well. One final
:56:18. > :56:21.question, you will have heard John McDonnell suggesting people who died
:56:22. > :56:27.in Grenfell Tower whether victims of political murder, how do you
:56:28. > :56:32.respond? That's a disgraceful suggestion. There is absolutely not
:56:33. > :56:36.a shred of evidence to support that. It was a terrible tragedy but of
:56:37. > :56:40.course we must wait for the outcome of the public inquiry to understand
:56:41. > :56:46.what happened and learn the lessons from it and we will learn lessons.
:56:47. > :57:07.Philip Hammond, thank you very much indeed.
:57:08. > :57:09.Coming up later this morning Andrew Neil will be talking
:57:10. > :57:11.about Brexit and lots more with the international
:57:12. > :57:13.trade secretary Liam Fox, and he'll be joined
:57:14. > :57:14.by Shadow Business Secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey.
:57:15. > :57:17.That's the Sunday Politics at 11 here on BBC One.
:57:18. > :57:23.Join us next week for our last show before we take a summer break.
:57:24. > :57:25.I'll be talking to the Hollywood star, Ethan Hawke.
:57:26. > :57:28.For now, here to play us out I'm delighted to welcome the flautist
:57:29. > :57:31.Lisa Friend and the Brodsky Quartet, performing the first movement
:57:32. > :59:39.For all the latest political news and debate,
:59:40. > :59:41.tune in to the Sunday Politics at 11,
:59:42. > :59:44.where we'll be analysing the week's big stories
:59:45. > :59:48.and talking to the politicians and commentators who count.