:00:00. > :00:07.Good morning and welcome back after the summer break.
:00:08. > :00:10.We have learned some things during August.
:00:11. > :00:17.Labour has quite dramatically changed its position on Brexit.
:00:18. > :00:21.And from next week, focus shifts to knife-edge votes in the Commons.
:00:22. > :00:25.But what of the negotiations in Brussels?
:00:26. > :00:27.From our side, breezy optimism giving way to warnings
:00:28. > :00:34.From theirs, frankly, snap, crackle and pop.
:00:35. > :01:00.Perhaps today we can shed a little light.
:01:01. > :01:03.I hope we can shed some light, because I'm joined by the man
:01:04. > :01:05.leading Britain's Brexit team, David Davis.
:01:06. > :01:10.And by Labour's Brexit spokesman, Sir Keir Starmer, on why he's
:01:11. > :01:12.shifted the party's thinking on leaving the EU and what that
:01:13. > :01:23.And to review today's news, just ahead of the Commons
:01:24. > :01:25.returning this week, two backbench voices
:01:26. > :01:31.The former Labour Minister Caroline Flint, and the new
:01:32. > :01:38.Plus, casting her eye over some of the big foreign stories,
:01:39. > :01:39.former BBC diplomatic correspondent, now master of Peterhouse
:01:40. > :01:47.And we go back to the 60s for a new play about
:01:48. > :01:51.I'll be talking to the writer and the star of Ink.
:01:52. > :01:59.Emma Hatton, as Eva Peron, gives us the best song from one
:02:00. > :02:13.# Don't cry for me, Argentina. # The truth is I never left you.
:02:14. > :02:14.Not a dry eye. North Korea has carried out
:02:15. > :02:20.another nuclear test - In the last hour, state media
:02:21. > :02:26.in Pyongyang said a hydrogen bomb had been detonated at the country's
:02:27. > :02:29.main testing site Earlier, North Korea's state
:02:30. > :02:37.news agency released pictures of the leader, Kim Jong-un,
:02:38. > :02:40.inspecting what it said There is no independent
:02:41. > :02:48.verification of the claim. Japan has launched a formal protest
:02:49. > :02:50.following today's test explosion. Senior Cabinet figures have warned
:02:51. > :02:52.potential Conservative rebels that they risk putting Jeremy Corbyn
:02:53. > :02:56.into Number 10 if they don't back The Government's EU
:02:57. > :02:59.Repeal Bill will be debated The Prime Minister has described
:03:00. > :03:04.the legislation as the single most important step to prevent
:03:05. > :03:05.a cliff-edge Brexit One pro-EU Tory MP has warned that
:03:06. > :03:12.attempts to bring them Hospital managers have called
:03:13. > :03:19.for an emergency bail-out, warning that the NHS faces its worst
:03:20. > :03:22.winter crisis in recent years. The NHS Providers Group,
:03:23. > :03:26.which represents the majority of trusts, says the service needs
:03:27. > :03:28.?200-350 million extra The Government says the NHS
:03:29. > :03:35.is well prepared to cope And more than 60,000 people have
:03:36. > :03:44.been moved from their homes in the centre of Frankfurt
:03:45. > :03:47.in Germany while specialists defuse a huge unexploded bomb dropped
:03:48. > :03:50.by the RAF during the Second World All homes and businesses
:03:51. > :04:15.within a one-mile radius To the front pages, and, shock,
:04:16. > :04:18.horror, there is a bit of politics on them.
:04:19. > :04:22.The Sunday Telegraph, Tory rebels told, back Brexit or you will get
:04:23. > :04:28.Corbyn. Less helpful on the front of the Sunday Times for Theresa May,
:04:29. > :04:32.Theresa May secretly agrees to a ?50 billion Brexit deal, we will ask
:04:33. > :04:37.David Davis if that is true. Also, it says 70% of voters do not want
:04:38. > :04:42.the Prime Minister to fight the next election. The Mail On Sunday's main
:04:43. > :04:47.story is they have this memo, they call it a bombshell memo, from
:04:48. > :04:49.Lynton Crosby, the Tory election Guru, who warned Theresa May clearly
:04:50. > :05:07.ahead of the last election, according to
:05:08. > :05:10.them, that she was taking a risk in calling it, and she ignored that,
:05:11. > :05:12.says the Mail. Lots more on that later on. Finally, the Observer, and
:05:13. > :05:14.anti-Brexit newspaper, furious Tory MPs reject Theresa May's threats
:05:15. > :05:16.over Brexit vote. So politics is just back but moving very fast
:05:17. > :05:18.indeed. Caroline Flint, let's start with the Mail On Sunday. It is
:05:19. > :05:22.interesting about the headlines, most of the broadsheets are focusing
:05:23. > :05:25.on Brexit but the tabloids are focusing on what has happened to
:05:26. > :05:30.Wayne Rooney said there are two worlds, Brexit world and Wayne's
:05:31. > :05:34.world, and I think a lot of the public outside of the elections,
:05:35. > :05:38.politics is a minority sport. Back to the memo, there is a lot today...
:05:39. > :05:44.I thought for a horrible moment you were going to ask me to talk about
:05:45. > :05:56.Wayne Rooney! No, no, we will steer clear of that one! But in terms of
:05:57. > :05:58.the memo which has been leaked, from Lynton Crosby, warning Theresa May
:05:59. > :06:00.against calling an election, quite interesting for a number of reasons,
:06:01. > :06:02.one because Bridget and others will talk about the fact there is
:06:03. > :06:05.pressure on Tory backbenchers to back the Prime Minister. She had the
:06:06. > :06:08.election because she wanted to make her situation more secure and that
:06:09. > :06:13.has not happened, but the other thing is Lynton Crosby got a huge
:06:14. > :06:17.amount of bad press over his part in that election, I think this is about
:06:18. > :06:21.him redeeming his reputation by saying they should not call it, and
:06:22. > :06:25.if you do have it, focus on the economy, because the Tories did not
:06:26. > :06:30.do that either. It is him making sure his footnote in history is
:06:31. > :06:36.clear and correct. You can smell the reek of scores being settled.
:06:37. > :06:40.Definitely. There is a lot of hindsight analysis going on at the
:06:41. > :06:47.moment. I remember when the election was called. The local elections took
:06:48. > :06:50.place a few days or a week later, picked up seats like the side which
:06:51. > :06:55.we would never have expected, we had just recently won the Copeland
:06:56. > :07:01.by-election, so she was doing very well. All of what we are hearing now
:07:02. > :07:05.is just people revisiting it with hindsight, it is all hindsight. If
:07:06. > :07:10.she had done much better than that, no-one would be talking about this
:07:11. > :07:14.memo. Kemi, because you a Tory MP I think I know the answer, but Theresa
:07:15. > :07:18.May says she wants to fight the next election, the last one was not a
:07:19. > :07:23.pitch perfect campaign, if I can put it that way, are you relaxed about
:07:24. > :07:29.her doing the same thing again? Personally, I am. Many people will
:07:30. > :07:33.disagree but fighting an election is mutual consent, you decide with your
:07:34. > :07:36.party and also with the country, and I think the way she answered the
:07:37. > :07:40.question was absolutely right, we are in the middle of some of the
:07:41. > :07:45.most difficult negotiations that the country has faced and the idea that
:07:46. > :07:48.she should have responded by saying, oh, yes, I will probably go in a
:07:49. > :07:52.couple of years, it will have triggered discussions on leadership,
:07:53. > :07:58.it is the only thing she could say. But she is wounded, as we know. It
:07:59. > :08:01.is interesting that settling scores over the last election brings us to
:08:02. > :08:05.the Sunday Telegraph headline and the Observer related one about what
:08:06. > :08:08.will happen in Parliament, back Brexit or get Corbyn. The idea after
:08:09. > :08:12.what happened in the last election that there will be a new election
:08:13. > :08:17.round the corner, not very likely. Labour keeps saying there will be an
:08:18. > :08:20.election coming soon, but unless the Tories break apart completely over
:08:21. > :08:24.Brexit, and we will talk about that, it is hard to see how it can happen.
:08:25. > :08:30.Nonetheless, this will be the story of the week. I think that will
:08:31. > :08:35.slowly go viral and be repeated ad nauseam. It will, and it is a shame
:08:36. > :08:41.because I know from personal experience that we are united, there
:08:42. > :08:44.will always be people who disagree, people talking themselves up to be
:08:45. > :08:49.more than they are, but we are united. Given the only needs to be
:08:50. > :08:53.second Tory MPs disagree and vote with Labour to cause real problems
:08:54. > :08:57.for the Government. And I think it is the tone, Theresa May so often
:08:58. > :09:01.misses the tone needed for dealing with events, and firing this firing
:09:02. > :09:05.this off this week is going to get up the backs of many Tory MPs, as we
:09:06. > :09:11.have seen them quoted in the papers today. We have not spoken much about
:09:12. > :09:14.the Labour change of position, the transitional deal staying inside the
:09:15. > :09:20.single market and Customs union, do you welcome that? There are lots of
:09:21. > :09:25.people in the Labour Party had thing, this is our chance to avoid
:09:26. > :09:27.Brexit entirely, goes on forever, Tom Watson has said it could be
:09:28. > :09:33.permanent, what is your message to them? I don't think that could be
:09:34. > :09:37.the case. I said over a year ago now that the idea that we would not have
:09:38. > :09:42.to have transition plans was nonsense, we had Brexiteers saying
:09:43. > :09:47.we could just go, just finish it all in March 2019 and then there were
:09:48. > :09:50.others on the Remain side who think we can have our cake and eat it, be
:09:51. > :09:54.full members of the single market and customs union and in some
:09:55. > :09:57.respects some of those have taken from what Keir Starmer said that
:09:58. > :10:01.this will allow us to reverse the decision. I totally disagree with
:10:02. > :10:07.that. You disagree with Tom Watson? I disagree that it could be a
:10:08. > :10:09.permanent decision, because we are leaving the European Union and my
:10:10. > :10:15.opinion piece in the Sunday Telegraph made clear that in Keir
:10:16. > :10:19.Starmer's own words, he said, we will exit the European Union in
:10:20. > :10:22.March 2019, the transition is a transition, however it is reasonable
:10:23. > :10:28.that he should point out that whilst we are in the transition, staying in
:10:29. > :10:33.the single market and customs union until things are result has to be
:10:34. > :10:40.the case, but he recognises that we cannot be full members and there has
:10:41. > :10:44.to be a change with the freedom of movement. David Davis is talking
:10:45. > :10:46.about Labour's motivation is pursuit of chaos and I think there are
:10:47. > :10:54.probably some colleagues who want to think about ways they can delay the
:10:55. > :10:58.inevitable, but I also read in the bottom of David's article that, for
:10:59. > :11:02.my part, I will work with anyone of any party. One of the faults of
:11:03. > :11:05.Government is they have not been open to working cross party in a
:11:06. > :11:09.sensible way and here is an opportunity, maybe you could ask
:11:10. > :11:12.today, you did ask Keir Starmer to be part of discussion about how we
:11:13. > :11:17.leave the European Union and maintain business and good
:11:18. > :11:20.opportunities. Will you come instance, backed the Government in
:11:21. > :11:26.this way? I am very clear that I am not going to try and disrupt us
:11:27. > :11:30.leaving the European Union. Having said that, there are legitimate
:11:31. > :11:34.questions to be asked as we take the bill through Parliament, and that is
:11:35. > :11:38.fair enough, but I am not going to be involved in wrecking for
:11:39. > :11:45.wrecking's said. Some of Keir Starmer's specific worries you would
:11:46. > :11:49.share... I would share that but as we have seen in the discussion
:11:50. > :11:52.before Parliament rose on the nuclear agency there are issues to
:11:53. > :11:57.be sorted out but let's not forget that part of the bill is actually
:11:58. > :12:01.adoption, it should be called the great adoption bill because we will
:12:02. > :12:06.be adopting wholesale the framework that currently exist and then
:12:07. > :12:11.looking at how we will make we move forward. So I think the language and
:12:12. > :12:14.tone is vitally important and I think the Government word Daft a
:12:15. > :12:18.year ago to talk about somehow we should leave with no deal at all,
:12:19. > :12:22.that is not helpful. Kemi, you have chosen Damian Green, Deputy Prime
:12:23. > :12:26.Minister now, great survivor, written a piece in the Sunday
:12:27. > :12:29.Telegraph, I remember years ago thinking his political career was on
:12:30. > :12:34.the way down but he is suddenly at the top again and enjoying it
:12:35. > :12:38.hugely, but he was a Remain campaigner, very passionate. And
:12:39. > :12:42.that is why I selected it because I think there is a narrative about
:12:43. > :12:46.Brexiteers versus Remainers, which is no longer the case. The vast
:12:47. > :12:50.majority of people in the country want us to get on with this, which
:12:51. > :12:55.is why it is unhelpful to talk about leaderships and when the PM is going
:12:56. > :13:04.to go. And I think people like Damien are working very hard to try
:13:05. > :13:08.and get the best possible deal, if we don't all come together to make
:13:09. > :13:10.this happen then we will see a Prime Minister Corbyn and that is
:13:11. > :13:16.definitely not something we want to see. Before we leave Brexit, we will
:13:17. > :13:21.come onto other possibly more important matters in a moment,
:13:22. > :13:26.Bridget, but before we leave Brexit I must ask about this ?50 billion
:13:27. > :13:30.Brexit Bill that the Sunday Times suggests is coming. This is a
:13:31. > :13:33.problem for Government, there is going to be some kind of bill, we
:13:34. > :13:37.don't know what the figure is put at the Tory party conference at the
:13:38. > :13:39.beginning of next month, Tory supporters are Brexit and Tory
:13:40. > :13:45.opponents of Brexit will want to know what the number is, won't they?
:13:46. > :13:48.Yes, and I am surprised a number has come up because it was just a couple
:13:49. > :14:00.of days ago that the EU said they have not had discussions on numbers
:14:01. > :14:03.and we are keeping our cards close to our chest. But whatever the
:14:04. > :14:05.number is there will be people who disagree with it, and that is just
:14:06. > :14:08.the nature of negotiations, and I think October is a reasonable time
:14:09. > :14:10.for us to come to a conclusion, David Davis can tell you more about
:14:11. > :14:14.that. I have a quiet prediction about that conversation, I think I
:14:15. > :14:17.know how it will go! I am suspicious about the headline. Some news
:14:18. > :14:22.happened so quickly that it does not make the Sunday papers and you have
:14:23. > :14:26.taken the BBC News? This is North Korea's test which happened too late
:14:27. > :14:30.for the papers but it is on the website, the BBC website. The most
:14:31. > :14:35.recent story is North Korea has hailed it a perfect hydrogen bomb
:14:36. > :14:39.test. It has certainly been very big, the sixth one, experts say we
:14:40. > :14:43.should be cautious about whether they have the capacity for a
:14:44. > :14:46.hydrogen bomb but the North Korean leader was shown on inspecting what
:14:47. > :14:52.they claim is a hydrogen bomb, they say they can put it on a missile. It
:14:53. > :14:56.reminds us yet again that they have a growing capability and, what's
:14:57. > :15:02.more, they are not cowed by any warnings from
:15:03. > :15:09.People are becoming almost relaxed, another North Korean nuclear test.
:15:10. > :15:13.Yet another missile. They are ramping it up. Showing greater
:15:14. > :15:18.capability. The big question is, is there anything the West can do? It
:15:19. > :15:26.is worth making the point, they are not crossing red lines, they have
:15:27. > :15:33.not sent a missile over Guam. Perhaps they are being more
:15:34. > :15:40.calibrated. There is a useful article today in the Observer which
:15:41. > :15:43.is by an academic at the School of Oriental and African studies. The
:15:44. > :15:48.key to North Korea is how can you have a military solution when North
:15:49. > :15:52.Korea has the trump card of the South Korean capital Seoul just
:15:53. > :15:56.south of the border with millions of people in it? Anything the US did,
:15:57. > :16:00.the counterstrike would immediately beyond Seoul which takes us back to
:16:01. > :16:03.the fact there has to be some containment through diplomacy and
:16:04. > :16:09.the key to that is China and for that, we need to read China's mind
:16:10. > :16:24.carefully and this is a good article explaining China's
:16:25. > :16:28.concerns. He makes the point it is not China is worried there will be
:16:29. > :16:30.many refugees, not that they are worried the Korean peninsula would
:16:31. > :16:32.become an American foothold. Once North Korea is not fair, the
:16:33. > :16:35.Americans would no longer have a reason to be there. He says it is
:16:36. > :16:37.internal Chinese politics. It is really important for us to
:16:38. > :16:41.understand this to move to the next step which is to try to missed the
:16:42. > :16:47.Chinese in something, to get us out of this dangerous position. Another
:16:48. > :16:52.nuclear story, but before that, Caroline, teachers. Children are
:16:53. > :16:58.going back to school next week and the story in the Observer is about
:16:59. > :17:01.teachers, ?5,000 worth of every year under the Tories, wages have not
:17:02. > :17:08.kept up with inflation. -- worse off. Recruitment targets have been
:17:09. > :17:12.missed for five years running and two years in a row, more teachers
:17:13. > :17:15.have left the profession than have joined. This is worrying because
:17:16. > :17:20.although the Government will say there are more teachers than ever
:17:21. > :17:24.before, there has been a bulge in pupil numbers, so it has not kept
:17:25. > :17:27.up, so there is a real terms increase in funding per pupil. There
:17:28. > :17:33.are domestic policy issues which have to be attended to. Domestic
:17:34. > :17:40.worries, not much worse than this, you have written a book on the Cold
:17:41. > :17:47.War experience, just came out, this is a story, terrified about a
:17:48. > :17:53.nuclear attack. It is funny, having immersed myself in the half-century
:17:54. > :18:01.of the Cold War how the teams come back. This is called putter when the
:18:02. > :18:05.bomb drops. Because of North Korea, the article makes the point, we are
:18:06. > :18:08.a long way from a bomb being dropped from North Korea on Britain,
:18:09. > :18:15.nonetheless, what are the provisions? What he has found out is
:18:16. > :18:19.that instead of it being the broadcasting service and the dulcet
:18:20. > :18:23.tones of Peter Donaldson sadly telling us to be calm and carry on,
:18:24. > :18:27.nowadays, it might be through our mobile phones because the Government
:18:28. > :18:34.would be able to contact everybody and also turn them into a one-way
:18:35. > :18:37.signal, we would wait for instructions in the morning from the
:18:38. > :18:43.Government. One other little nuance, you have to go somewhere a long way
:18:44. > :18:47.from radioactive particles to cleanse yourself of them and you can
:18:48. > :18:52.wash yourself with shampoo but do not use conditioner because it will
:18:53. > :18:58.bind radioactive material to your hair. Remember that! We like to
:18:59. > :19:00.cheer people up in this news review! And give them useful, practical
:19:01. > :19:05.information! Thank you for that, very interesting.
:19:06. > :19:10.You get gorgeous hot days with just a hint of autumn ahead
:19:11. > :19:18.I wonder if Tomasz Schafernaker in the weather studio feels the same?
:19:19. > :19:24.Sometimes your hand to the weather is longer than the weather forecast
:19:25. > :19:28.itself! There sunshine on the way for sure across eastern parts of the
:19:29. > :19:32.UK. We woke up to a beautiful sunrise. In the West, the clouds
:19:33. > :19:37.have been increasing overnight and it is a totally different story for
:19:38. > :19:40.south-west England, Wales, Northern Ireland and parts of western
:19:41. > :19:47.Scotland. The rain has been moving in. It will not train hard all day,
:19:48. > :19:51.just dribs drabs. Many of the Eastern counties from Kent to the
:19:52. > :19:57.north-east of Scotland should stay dry through most of the afternoon.
:19:58. > :20:02.Tonight, even when the rain does reach knowledge, it will be splits
:20:03. > :20:07.and spots, pretty much it. 16 degrees overnight low, warm and
:20:08. > :20:11.humid air on top of us. Tomorrow, lots of cloud in the morning,
:20:12. > :20:18.missed, drizzle and places, rain in parts of Scotland. If the clouds
:20:19. > :20:27.break, temperatures up to 20-23d. As far as the early part of the is
:20:28. > :20:29.concerned, a little mix, rain around, but on balance, the early
:20:30. > :20:33.September weather is not looking too bad. Andrew, back to you.
:20:34. > :20:35.Later this month, Labour's Conference meets in Brighton,
:20:36. > :20:37.and anti-Brexit campaigners are preparing for a big push
:20:38. > :20:40.Over the past couple of weeks, many of them have come
:20:41. > :20:42.to see Sir Keir Starmer, Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit
:20:43. > :20:46.Well, he's certainly shifted the policy on how we leave the EU,
:20:47. > :20:59.He joins me now. This is a big change of policy compared with the
:21:00. > :21:02.beginning of the summer. It is a really important development. We
:21:03. > :21:06.have always said jobs and the economy come first and we would
:21:07. > :21:10.retain the benefits of the single market and Customs union. The clock
:21:11. > :21:13.is ticking and we are going to need transitional arrangements. The
:21:14. > :21:20.Government was pretending we would not at one stage. It is important we
:21:21. > :21:25.take leadership as the the terms of the transitional arrangements and we
:21:26. > :21:30.have said the transitional period, from March, 2019, until we get to a
:21:31. > :21:34.new and final deal, it will be within a customs union and within
:21:35. > :21:38.the single market. There is absolute clarity about that and it is EA
:21:39. > :21:42.knighted Labour Party position. It is a U-turn because Jeremy Corbyn
:21:43. > :21:48.was sacking people for saying much the same thing not long ago. No, it
:21:49. > :21:52.is not a U-turn, it is a development policy. The terms of the
:21:53. > :21:55.transitional arrangements, Labour has never said anything other than
:21:56. > :22:00.retaining the benefits of the single market and the customs union. The
:22:01. > :22:05.argument is what about the final position is. It is an important
:22:06. > :22:10.development and what is really important about this is that Labour
:22:11. > :22:14.has become united and has a clear possession and that is in the public
:22:15. > :22:18.interest. To be absolutely clear, for a period of time after we have
:22:19. > :22:25.formally left the EU, and a Labour's plan, we will be inside the singles
:22:26. > :22:30.market and the customs union? Yes. Paying money in and free movement as
:22:31. > :22:33.now and subjected European Court of Justice? Yes. Let me explain.
:22:34. > :22:37.Everybody says we have to avoid a cliff edge, we need certainty and
:22:38. > :22:48.stability and that is the way to achieve it. It is obvious we need
:22:49. > :22:50.more time to resolve the position in Northern Ireland, a delicate
:22:51. > :22:52.position, not just the technicalities of the border. There
:22:53. > :22:56.is an inevitability about this. There is a real risk the Government
:22:57. > :23:01.will not get onto phase two because they are going so slowly and to
:23:02. > :23:05.suggest as some do you could have bespoke special arrangements and
:23:06. > :23:09.negotiate between now and March, 2019, it is nonsense. This is
:23:10. > :23:13.grown-up politics from the Labour Party in the public interest. You
:23:14. > :23:17.say to avoid a cliff edge, but you just push it further away, there
:23:18. > :23:23.will be a cliff edge when we leave these arrangements. I accept having
:23:24. > :23:27.interim arrangements is necessary but we have got to look at what the
:23:28. > :23:31.end result will be as well and that is why I say they should be as short
:23:32. > :23:36.as possible. I do not think temporary arrangements should go on
:23:37. > :23:42.for as long as... Any longer than necessary. How long? Will these
:23:43. > :23:47.temporary arrangements be over by the time of the next election, for
:23:48. > :23:50.instance? I think they could be and I genuinely think they should be as
:23:51. > :23:54.short as possible. They could be two years. They may take longer. What is
:23:55. > :23:59.really important is what we are trying to achieve is a deal that
:24:00. > :24:04.will last for decades and there are some big questions coming into very
:24:05. > :24:09.sharp focus because that final deal is a deal when we will have to
:24:10. > :24:15.decide as a country, do we want to orientate ourselves around Europe,
:24:16. > :24:20.the US or China? What is your answer? Europe is... We share
:24:21. > :24:27.history, values, major trading block. Of course, we will be out of
:24:28. > :24:30.the EU from March, 2019. But the EU is the major focus for us on trade,
:24:31. > :24:36.we need to keep that clearly in focus. Many will look at the plan to
:24:37. > :24:40.stay inside the single market and Customs union and think, this is a
:24:41. > :24:44.way of effectively over time staying inside the EU. Perhaps the economy
:24:45. > :24:49.goes south for a while, and election comes with a different result, and
:24:50. > :24:52.another chance at it. The anti-Brexit people are saying, Kier
:24:53. > :24:58.Starmer is giving us a way through. Everybody knows that we leave the EU
:24:59. > :25:03.in March, 2019. That is the obvious effect of triggering Article 50.
:25:04. > :25:08.That will happen. The transitional measures are between that point and
:25:09. > :25:12.reaching a final, we say, positive partnership with Europe that
:25:13. > :25:17.recognises that Europe is our major trading partner. Under your new
:25:18. > :25:21.plan, we are inside the single market and the customs union, paying
:25:22. > :25:27.in, and of the ECJ, it will feel very much as if we are still inside
:25:28. > :25:31.the EU but we will not have votes. Tom Watson says it could be a
:25:32. > :25:36.permanent arrangement. We need to put Tom Watson's remarks in context.
:25:37. > :25:42.I do not want to get into the weeds of this. Into context or into a box?
:25:43. > :25:45.What we have said about the final arrangement is we want a partnership
:25:46. > :25:50.with the EU retaining the benefits of the single market and the customs
:25:51. > :25:56.union. We are open to a discussion leaving a customs union with the EU
:25:57. > :26:01.on the table a viable option. This could be parliament? We have not
:26:02. > :26:08.slept it off the table. -- this could be permanent? If you want to
:26:09. > :26:12.retain the benefits, you have to be open to that discussion. We are not
:26:13. > :26:17.sleeping it off the table. When you say a customs union with the EU and
:26:18. > :26:22.not the customs union, what do you mean? To be in the customs union,
:26:23. > :26:29.you must be a member of the EU. Anything other than that is a
:26:30. > :26:31.customs union. We could replicate virtually the system now? We could
:26:32. > :26:35.attempt to have an arrangement delivering the benefits of the
:26:36. > :26:39.customs union we have now through a customs union and we should think
:26:40. > :26:44.that should be a viable end goal. If we are virtually inside the single
:26:45. > :26:48.market for the long-time NEET term, what needs to change for that to be
:26:49. > :26:52.possible? There are issues about freedom of movement and wider
:26:53. > :26:56.issues. Freedom of movement and the question of whether it will be
:26:57. > :26:59.freedom of movement in the transitional period, the Government
:27:00. > :27:04.has commissioned a review of immigration and that will not report
:27:05. > :27:09.into next year, the chances of a brand-new immigration policy by
:27:10. > :27:13.March, 2019, it is zero. We are in the situation were under this plan
:27:14. > :27:19.we will be inside the EU in many respects in the transitional period,
:27:20. > :27:22.we will not have any votes and we will not be able to strike deals
:27:23. > :27:26.around the rest of the world as Theresa May was trying to do in
:27:27. > :27:31.Japan and David Davis in the States. Is it not the worst of all possible
:27:32. > :27:36.worlds? In the short term, it will work. I accept the argument we will
:27:37. > :27:41.not have votes. Most of the provisions that will come into force
:27:42. > :27:47.in that two, three-year period, it will be provisions we will have had
:27:48. > :27:50.a say on. I am not pretending transitionals are ideal, they are
:27:51. > :27:54.necessary, but they should be as short as possible. Crucial question,
:27:55. > :28:00.are you saying we could stay inside the single market for the long term?
:28:01. > :28:03.I am saying we should have as a viable option a changed relationship
:28:04. > :28:08.with the single market that delivers the benefits of the single market.
:28:09. > :28:14.Full membership, the membership we have now, is there because we are an
:28:15. > :28:20.EU member. We are leaving the EU in March, 2019. The question is, can we
:28:21. > :28:24.have a constructive arrangement truly delivering the benefits of the
:28:25. > :28:27.single market and that is what we are focused on? The Parliamentary
:28:28. > :28:31.arguments, you have written a letter to David Davis setting out
:28:32. > :28:35.objections you have to the Great Repeal Bill as it is being called.
:28:36. > :28:42.It is a very, very wide sweeping bill. The idea of converting EU law
:28:43. > :28:47.into our law is right but the way the Government has gone about it is
:28:48. > :28:50.completely wrong. They want sweeping powers that effectively take powers
:28:51. > :28:56.from Brussels and put them into the hands of ministers. The so-called
:28:57. > :29:01.Henry VIII...? I am sure many people will not know about this. He did not
:29:02. > :29:05.like Parliament so he issued proclamations to amend legislation
:29:06. > :29:10.and the use of these powers since then has been highly controversial.
:29:11. > :29:14.This bill has the power to make delegated legislation which can
:29:15. > :29:17.change primary legislation without Parliament having the usual
:29:18. > :29:22.scrutiny. That is really important because you could entrench important
:29:23. > :29:26.EU rights on Monday and take them away on Tuesday without primary
:29:27. > :29:31.legislation. The David Davis of old would not have had much to do with
:29:32. > :29:36.that. They say to avoid the cliff edge, to avoid chaos, so business
:29:37. > :29:40.and everyone knows where we are, you have to whole-cell take that EU
:29:41. > :29:50.regulations and put them into British law and essentially that is
:29:51. > :29:52.what the bill is doing and if you destroy this Bill, defeat this Bill
:29:53. > :29:55.in the House of Commons, we are in a completely chaotic situation. It is
:29:56. > :29:57.not about frustrating the process, it is not giving government the
:29:58. > :30:01.blank cheque to pass powers into the hands of ministers. Transitional
:30:02. > :30:04.measures, the Bill makes clear the role of the European Court of
:30:05. > :30:08.Justice will be extinguished. We might say it is consistent with
:30:09. > :30:12.leaving, but it puts the date into the hands of the Secretary of State,
:30:13. > :30:17.not Parliament. These are very wide powers and we cannot just give a
:30:18. > :30:22.blank cheque to the Government. We cannot go through all of your
:30:23. > :30:25.objections because that of several. If David Davis sits down with you
:30:26. > :30:27.but does not accept all of your points, are you definitely going to
:30:28. > :30:35.vote against this Bill? I flagged these points up at the
:30:36. > :30:39.beginning of the summer and said, if you don't address them, we will vote
:30:40. > :30:42.against it. We have not reached that stage yet but we are clear that
:30:43. > :30:46.whilst we accept the result of the referendum we are not giving a blank
:30:47. > :30:49.cheque to the Government to do it in a way that is not in the public
:30:50. > :30:53.interest. For many in the Labour Party who dream of Brexit been
:30:54. > :30:59.properly reversed, and of staying inside the EU, we are now in a
:31:00. > :31:04.situation where we might stay pretty much inside the single market, the
:31:05. > :31:09.customs union, according to Tom Watson, long term. What is your
:31:10. > :31:13.message to them? We have always said we accept the outcome of the
:31:14. > :31:18.referendum, we want a Progressive partnership and somehow we have to
:31:19. > :31:23.come up with an arrangement which properly reflects the vote, brings
:31:24. > :31:27.the country back together, and that is about big-ticket items such as,
:31:28. > :31:31.what is your basic trading relationship with Europe and what
:31:32. > :31:35.else can you do with the rest of the world and how do you collaborate and
:31:36. > :31:39.cooperate more widely. You will be fighting on the floor of the House
:31:40. > :31:43.of Commons not just on this but other issues, do you have Tory
:31:44. > :31:48.support? There are many Tories who are concerned about the position the
:31:49. > :31:52.Government finds itself in, which is pretty shambolic, very slow
:31:53. > :31:55.progress, and I think some of them this summer have been looking across
:31:56. > :31:59.at the Labour Party thinking, they have a clearer, more coherent
:32:00. > :32:00.position than we have now. It will be an interesting few weeks. Thank
:32:01. > :32:03.you very much indeed. These days, Rupert Murdoch is seen
:32:04. > :32:06.as part of the modern establishment - the single most powerful
:32:07. > :32:08.man in the media. But when he started out,
:32:09. > :32:16.he was an absolute outsider, the young rebel creating effectively
:32:17. > :32:19.a new paper, The Sun, to try to bring down what was then
:32:20. > :32:22.Britain's most successful paper Recently, I caught up with writer
:32:23. > :32:27.James Graham and Bertie Carvel, who plays Murdoch in Ink,
:32:28. > :32:29.a new play about the I started by asking them
:32:30. > :32:35.about the challenges of portraying a man loathed by liberal Britain,
:32:36. > :32:38.who often loathed it in return. There are other ways
:32:39. > :32:43.to destroy people. The moral of the story is that power
:32:44. > :32:48.replaces itself with itself, and you can either stand
:32:49. > :32:51.on the other side of the window, tap, tap, tap,
:32:52. > :32:54.asking to come in, or We sort of knew from the beginning
:32:55. > :33:02.that we didn't necessarily want to do, ironically,
:33:03. > :33:04.often what his papers are accused of doing,
:33:05. > :33:07.which is do a hatchet job on him. We wanted to do something a bit more
:33:08. > :33:11.nuanced and try to get under the skin of him as a man,
:33:12. > :33:14.as a news man, try and understand his philosophy,
:33:15. > :33:16.what was driving him at the time, and I guess also ask questions
:33:17. > :33:19.about both what was going wrong in Fleet Street in the 1960s
:33:20. > :33:22.that he was trying to change, and then also ask the question
:33:23. > :33:25.at the end of the play, what have we lost as a result
:33:26. > :33:29.of that, as a result of him winning? Now, of course, he is seen as this
:33:30. > :33:32.elderly, hugely powerful, Back then, when you're playing him,
:33:33. > :33:38.he's a young, rebellious outsider, and quite likeable in many
:33:39. > :33:41.ways, as well? Very much so, and you
:33:42. > :33:43.certainly read, people said He's a Young Turk, he's
:33:44. > :33:50.an iconoclast, and he's trying to break apart an establishment
:33:51. > :33:53.and a system he sees as, you know, Yes, bring down Wilson,
:33:54. > :34:05.his high spending, Behold the hypocrisy of your
:34:06. > :34:09.treasured liberal establishment, the belief that they know best,
:34:10. > :34:12.that it's their, what, their responsibility to reverse
:34:13. > :34:14.the poor democratic choices of the people they pretend to defend
:34:15. > :34:17.and replace the Government Someone with quite a strong sense
:34:18. > :34:25.of moral rectitude who then persuades themself that what's good
:34:26. > :34:28.business is also good democracy and that it's actually answering
:34:29. > :34:32.a kind of democratic need. Larry Lamb, Murdoch's first editor,
:34:33. > :34:40.is determined to beat the mirror under any circumstances and in any
:34:41. > :34:43.way necessary, and that leads Yes, so it was incredibly dangerous,
:34:44. > :34:48.incredibly shocking, Larry Lamb, in fact,
:34:49. > :34:53.from my research, kept it Who didn't like it,
:34:54. > :34:59.who didn't like it very much, he was against this when he saw
:35:00. > :35:01.it, wasn't he? He has these enjoyable
:35:02. > :35:03.contradictions as a man, because even though he's very,
:35:04. > :35:06.what we see him to be, very forthright and determined,
:35:07. > :35:08.he actually has this sort of prudishness around this stuff,
:35:09. > :35:11.and as far as I can understand he was sort of furious,
:35:12. > :35:13.absolutely furious that Larry Lamb To him, it confirmed in other
:35:14. > :35:18.people's minds on Fleet Street that they were just this
:35:19. > :35:21.down-market, trashy pair of pornographers
:35:22. > :35:24.who were doing anything to win. And it's a brilliant moment
:35:25. > :35:29.in the play, because in that moment Murdoch is confronted
:35:30. > :35:34.with the meeting on the one hand of the logical end point
:35:35. > :35:39.of this kind of driving, free market driven, "give people
:35:40. > :35:45.what they want" drive for success, and then it sort of comes up
:35:46. > :35:49.and bites him, and he starts to see what that might look like,
:35:50. > :35:53.and his moralistic side has to deal with that and contain
:35:54. > :35:54.those two things. There's another line
:35:55. > :35:58.where somebody says that, in terms of popular culture
:35:59. > :36:05.and popular democracy in the press, it will only really be finally
:36:06. > :36:07.democratised when people can publish their own news
:36:08. > :36:09.themselves, which is of course Are you trying to draw a line
:36:10. > :36:14.between The Sun in the 1960s and the world of the internet
:36:15. > :36:18.and Twitter now? I think so, and in a way we don't
:36:19. > :36:30.really have to push that to heart, -- push that too hard,
:36:31. > :36:33.an audience can draw those lines themselves,
:36:34. > :36:35.but I think 1969 was a crossroads for our news industry,
:36:36. > :36:37.for journalism and the media. And, as we know, Murdoch pretty much
:36:38. > :36:40.won that argument and news changed, and I think here today everything
:36:41. > :36:43.that we've gone through in the referendum and Donald Trump
:36:44. > :36:45.and everything that's happening on social media, the news
:36:46. > :36:47.is changing, and we're not OK, I'm going to put
:36:48. > :36:51.you on the spot now. The play is very, very balanced,
:36:52. > :36:54.but do you, as a playwright, think that what happened
:36:55. > :36:56.was actually corrosive to public I think I would like the audience
:36:57. > :37:00.to decide that for themselves! Obviously I have my
:37:01. > :37:02.own personal views. I think you win things
:37:03. > :37:04.and you lose things. I personally think, I wouldn't
:37:05. > :37:07.pretend for a second that I think universally that the tabloid culture
:37:08. > :37:10.has been entirely healthy for our Theatre has this conversation
:37:11. > :37:14.all the time, how do you balance the responsibility to be
:37:15. > :37:15.challenging, to be provocative, to take risks, to address issues
:37:16. > :37:18.that are not necessarily very comfortable, but also be
:37:19. > :37:21.entertaining, also be accessible? So I think it was, the right
:37:22. > :37:24.conversation was had, but I'm not sure the answer
:37:25. > :37:27.was the right one. No, not with just our lot,
:37:28. > :37:30.we're going to need the odds Your other play that's been running
:37:31. > :37:37.so successfully recently, This House, which was about a very,
:37:38. > :37:39.very carefully balanced House of Commons in the late 1970s
:37:40. > :37:43.when the whips were sort of dragging people out of the toilets
:37:44. > :37:45.and bringing them on stretchers to vote, a sort of heroic sense
:37:46. > :37:48.that this was a Government which didn't really have the numbers
:37:49. > :37:51.to survive, desperately struggling on, which takes us right
:37:52. > :37:54.to the here and now because again we have a Government
:37:55. > :37:56.with a wafer-thin majority, again the whips are going to be
:37:57. > :37:59.working the toilets and the bars late night after night after night,
:38:00. > :38:02.and it's going to feel, in 2017, I think that's right,
:38:03. > :38:09.and obviously when I wrote it I had no idea that this
:38:10. > :38:12.was going to happen, that there'd be an election
:38:13. > :38:15.or that it would certainly be a hung I mean, with This House,
:38:16. > :38:19.I was so grateful it did so well and people came to see it,
:38:20. > :38:23.but I think in a way it was often a knock-about comedy,
:38:24. > :38:25.it was very funny to watch those whips behave under such strain
:38:26. > :38:27.and in such bizarre circumstances, as you say, wheeling in people
:38:28. > :38:30.in ambulances and having to carry I think, though, in reality today,
:38:31. > :38:34.given the strains and the challenges that we face as a country,
:38:35. > :38:37.any paralysis in parliament, any inability to get conversations
:38:38. > :38:40.going or to get business through the house is going to be
:38:41. > :38:45.incredibly damaging, obviously damaging to the Government
:38:46. > :38:47.but I think it's going to be So I'm not sure it would feel
:38:48. > :38:52.quite so funny any more Can I ask you both,
:38:53. > :38:56.if Rupert Murdoch does come to see the play,
:38:57. > :38:58.and he suggested that he might, what's he going to think
:38:59. > :39:01.of himself by the end? I'd love to know, I hope he'll
:39:02. > :39:04.come and let us know I guess it's a funny
:39:05. > :39:06.feeling as a playwright, because obviously I don't want him
:39:07. > :39:09.to like it too much, because we try and be nuanced,
:39:10. > :39:11.we try and ask the right questions and understand him and get
:39:12. > :39:15.to the heart of what drove him, and be fair, but equally we do have
:39:16. > :39:18.to hold him to account a bit, and I think all we can do is sort
:39:19. > :39:22.of present the facts as we see them, the actions that he took,
:39:23. > :39:24.the decisions that he made, and let the audience then work out
:39:25. > :39:27.whether they think it was a proportionate response
:39:28. > :39:29.to what was happening So I would like him to think
:39:30. > :39:34.that we are fair, but that we ask. But you've asked him
:39:35. > :39:36.some tough questions? That's what we'd like him to think,
:39:37. > :39:42.but I really don't know what. It must be a very weird
:39:43. > :39:45.experience to watch yourself It's what, like, what will
:39:46. > :39:58.the audience do, as well? I imagine that, for the first
:39:59. > :40:00.time in the show, no-one will look at my play,
:40:01. > :40:02.everyone will just turn around and look at him to see
:40:03. > :40:05.what his response would be. Rupert Murdoch never misses
:40:06. > :40:08.The Andrew Marr Show, so he'll have seen that,
:40:09. > :40:10.and I'm sure he'll be James Graham and
:40:11. > :40:14.Bertie Carvel there. And Ink, directed by Rupert Goold,
:40:15. > :40:17.opens in London's West End this This week's news has been dominated
:40:18. > :40:26.by those Brexit negotiations. Now, very sadly for us,
:40:27. > :40:29.the EU negotiators are, so far, very camera shy, so we can't ask them why
:40:30. > :40:32.they are so are worried, and But David Davis, Cabinet Minister
:40:33. > :40:36.in charge of Brexit, who this week warned of more
:40:37. > :40:38.turbulence ahead but said he was still confident
:40:39. > :40:48.of a good deal, is here. He is not camera shy! Let's start
:40:49. > :40:54.with the negotiations because Mr Barnier was told about how he felt
:40:55. > :40:57.there was very little progress, time is running out, you are not being
:40:58. > :41:01.entirely serious, he was quite hostile on the way you have
:41:02. > :41:04.conducted negotiations. He can take whatever line he likes on the way we
:41:05. > :41:09.conduct the negotiations, that is up to him. But to give an example of
:41:10. > :41:12.progress, when I was last on the show I talked about the need to
:41:13. > :41:16.guarantee health care for people currently in Europe. We did that
:41:17. > :41:22.last week, we want to extend it to everybody, deep card scheme to be
:41:23. > :41:26.extended to everybody, but we have agreed it were British citizens in
:41:27. > :41:32.Europe, Spain, Italy, France, wherever, that is agreed and done,
:41:33. > :41:37.very important. Social Security contributions for these people all
:41:38. > :41:42.now agreed. Other things... For people there already? That is the
:41:43. > :41:45.only thing they will talk about at the moment, that is the point about
:41:46. > :41:50.the Europeans, they won't talk about the future, only the so-called
:41:51. > :41:54.divorce proceedings. Lots and lots of technical stuff, frontier workers
:41:55. > :42:00.and so on, if you are a British citizen living in Holland, working
:42:01. > :42:05.in Germany, living in France and working in Belgium, this matters to
:42:06. > :42:11.you, those things we have been resolving, what he is not getting
:42:12. > :42:14.the answer on money, they have set this up to put the pressure on us,
:42:15. > :42:21.they are trying to put time against money. Are you being blackmailed in
:42:22. > :42:24.that regard? What is going on, it is quite important because there are
:42:25. > :42:31.stories flying around in the papers this morning... ?50 billion. It is
:42:32. > :42:35.nonsense, completely wrong. What we are doing, for example, on this, the
:42:36. > :42:40.approach we are taken, we are saying, you have given this enormous
:42:41. > :42:44.bill, like Hotel, if you get an enormous bill, you go through it
:42:45. > :42:51.line by line. But you don't walk off before you have paid! It is like the
:42:52. > :42:55.Hotel Saint, make an offer will stop no, we are not going to that, we
:42:56. > :42:58.will go through it line by line and they are finding it difficult
:42:59. > :43:03.because we have good lawyers, we gave them a 2.5 hour presentation
:43:04. > :43:06.and they complained about that. We are going through this very
:43:07. > :43:09.systematically, in a very British way, very pragmatic, and he is
:43:10. > :43:14.finding it difficult and wants to put pressure on us which is why he
:43:15. > :43:17.has started this in this press conference, and bluntly I think he
:43:18. > :43:24.looks a bit silly because they're plainly were things that we have
:43:25. > :43:29.achieved, but the commission, I mean, I like him, I have known him
:43:30. > :43:32.for 20 years, but the commission puts itself in a silly position
:43:33. > :43:36.saying nothing has been done when these really important things... We
:43:37. > :43:40.put people before process, what they are in danger of doing is putting
:43:41. > :43:43.process before people. This is not going terribly well, keep things you
:43:44. > :43:47.are nostalgic, you think he is silly and time is running out. I did not
:43:48. > :43:57.say he is silly, don't put words in my mouth, I said the commission is
:43:58. > :43:59.making itself look silly. This is a two-year negotiation and they are
:44:00. > :44:01.trying to use time against us. I said this will be turbulent. People
:44:02. > :44:08.should not panic... More trouble ahead? Every time we can do
:44:09. > :44:12.something there will be a pressure exercise of this sort. Money is
:44:13. > :44:15.incredibly important, it is the thing that frightens the most, the
:44:16. > :44:20.money issue, but there are other big ones along the way and they will,
:44:21. > :44:24.each time there will be a pressure point, each time you will see a
:44:25. > :44:30.flurry of nervousness, but the truth is we will get through it.
:44:31. > :44:37.Jacob Rees Mogg says, if we leave, we could leave without an agreement,
:44:38. > :44:42.we are not a penny. The strict position is that there is no
:44:43. > :44:46.enforceable... What we have said all along is we are a country that needs
:44:47. > :44:52.its international obligations. But they have to be that. They may not
:44:53. > :44:57.be legal, they may be moral, political. Also, we want to leave in
:44:58. > :45:04.an orderly and smooth manner. I will come back to that. In order to do
:45:05. > :45:07.that, it is best to leave on amicable terms, proper negotiated
:45:08. > :45:13.terms, rather than just walking away. There are issues if you just
:45:14. > :45:18.walk away. It can be done but there are issues. We are aiming for a
:45:19. > :45:24.smooth, sensible, amicable exit leaving us and the EU in a good
:45:25. > :45:28.position. You said earlier on the ?50 billion figure is completely
:45:29. > :45:33.wrong. You must know by now roughly speaking in your back pocket what
:45:34. > :45:37.the hotel bill will cost. Well, look, the first thing to say is the
:45:38. > :45:41.approach we are taking is as described earlier, line by line, go
:45:42. > :45:46.through the exercise. We will then talk about what happens next. We
:45:47. > :45:50.have said in terms that era of big payments to the EU is coming to an
:45:51. > :45:57.end. We will still be paying something, I suspect. We have
:45:58. > :46:02.measures like all the space research stuff, all of the issues on nuclear
:46:03. > :46:09.research. What about money to Ukraine, Africa? That is a different
:46:10. > :46:14.matter. Bear in mind... We did agree these budgets originally? Therefore,
:46:15. > :46:19.you might say, there is a moral obligation. That is the argument. In
:46:20. > :46:25.a sense what the EU is saying it is a legal obligation, we are saying,
:46:26. > :46:30.no, it is not. In the medium to long-term, we will not pay great big
:46:31. > :46:33.payments. If you walk away from your phone contract, for instance, you
:46:34. > :46:37.expect to be stung for the cost of the contract. It is a legal
:46:38. > :46:42.contract. We have been through a legal argument and we are still
:46:43. > :46:45.going through it. The simple truth is, we have got a strong legal
:46:46. > :46:50.arguments to say what they have said so far is not right. We are not very
:46:51. > :46:54.many weeks away from the Tory party conference and a lot of people there
:46:55. > :46:59.will want to know roughly speaking how much we will be paying. Will
:47:00. > :47:04.they be told that? What they want is that we get a good deal, not that we
:47:05. > :47:10.talk about it, but that we get it. It is the most complex negotiation
:47:11. > :47:13.ever, certainly in modern times. You do not get a negotiated outcome by
:47:14. > :47:19.saying, this is what we want, this is what we will do. It does not work
:47:20. > :47:22.like that. In the referendum campaign and afterwards, you told us
:47:23. > :47:30.it would be a straightforward negotiation, you gave the impression
:47:31. > :47:32.it would be a breeze and it is appearing to be the opposite. I said
:47:33. > :47:36.the strategy is straightforward, some of it would be quite
:47:37. > :47:43.complicated. You said, there is a very easy vomit then you say, no,
:47:44. > :47:48.not easy, straightforward negotiation and we are certain to
:47:49. > :47:57.get a good deal -- there is a very easy, then you say, no, not easy.
:47:58. > :48:03.October, the summit, that was the timing. That is Michel Barnier's
:48:04. > :48:07.timing. Ideally, we would be in a position to, we will have made...
:48:08. > :48:14.Their phrase is sufficient progress. It is our decision on sufficient
:48:15. > :48:18.progress. We have got through so many things, they will make a call.
:48:19. > :48:26.I will not allow them to use the time pressure on that to somehow
:48:27. > :48:31.force us into doing X, Y, Z. When you have a pressure point, issues
:48:32. > :48:34.will come your way. When you were so confident in the referendum
:48:35. > :48:38.campaign, one of the reasons you were confident, he said, who was the
:48:39. > :48:42.most powerful politician? Angela Merkel. You are not negotiating with
:48:43. > :48:49.Angela Merkel, you are negotiating with Shell Barnier. Do you detect
:48:50. > :48:55.any frustration in the rest of the EU? If I did, I would not talk about
:48:56. > :49:05.it on earth. Sounds like a yes. Do not put words in my mouth! -- I
:49:06. > :49:09.would not talk about it on air. Angela Merkel is facing an election.
:49:10. > :49:14.In October, the next round, then make or may not be a German covenant
:49:15. > :49:20.in place. There will be a German government! The newly negotiated
:49:21. > :49:26.outcome, it sometimes take them. What you do not want to do is put
:49:27. > :49:31.money or anything else, something on the table, then have someone say,
:49:32. > :49:34.that is not good enough. The negotiations are complex and
:49:35. > :49:39.sophisticated and you must be very wary of thinking, if we just... The
:49:40. > :49:44.Labour Party, you have had Kier Starmer on, just do this, do that.
:49:45. > :49:48.Everything has a negotiating effect and they are not allowing for that
:49:49. > :49:52.in their negotiations. This is very difficult. Interesting story in the
:49:53. > :49:56.Sunday Telegraph today saying actually we may well not get a deal,
:49:57. > :50:01.quite a high proportion of problems over money and the border and the
:50:02. > :50:05.rest of it, we may not make it, and therefore, we should be planning
:50:06. > :50:08.very carefully and Cabinet Minister saying we have to have a careful
:50:09. > :50:14.proper plan otherwise we cannot call their bluff. We are planning for all
:50:15. > :50:17.options. Mervyn King said something similar a month ago. We're not
:50:18. > :50:21.particularly publicising it because every time you publicise a thing
:50:22. > :50:26.like that, people say, look, they are trying to get a no deal. That is
:50:27. > :50:30.not the case. We are putting all our effort into getting a good deal and
:50:31. > :50:36.we think that is by far and away the high probability but we have to plan
:50:37. > :50:43.for every option. As you fly into Brussels, you think, each time, this
:50:44. > :50:49.is possible. It will not work. It is possible. You have 15 elections, all
:50:50. > :50:56.sorts of noises. The simple truth to keep at the back of your mind, in
:50:57. > :51:03.2015, we sold 230 billion to them in euros, they sold 290 billion to us.
:51:04. > :51:08.The Belgian economy some of them, it is very, very important. The Belgium
:51:09. > :51:14.economy is important. Parts of Germany. The richest and biggest
:51:15. > :51:17.part of Germany is Bavaria. BMW. Is it the case therefore that Michel
:51:18. > :51:23.Barnier is negotiating with a very tight series of rules given and
:51:24. > :51:26.actually the really big political decisions without which a
:51:27. > :51:32.breakthrough will not happen will be made in Paris, Berlin, Vienna and
:51:33. > :51:36.other European cities? They will be made in the council, technically.
:51:37. > :51:40.You are right, the big players will be very important. What has been
:51:41. > :51:47.interesting, one of the groups I thought... I was nervous at the
:51:48. > :51:51.wrong word, cautious. The French. Brand-new government, still getting
:51:52. > :51:54.itself bedded in, looking at this with a very constructive viewpoint.
:51:55. > :52:00.We are seeing lots of optimistic noises but we have to respect the
:52:01. > :52:04.process, deal with the commission, and then of course put it in such a
:52:05. > :52:10.way that the council will come back and say, this is worth doing. We are
:52:11. > :52:14.beginning to run out of time. I must ask you about Parliament, the big
:52:15. > :52:16.crunch. Is it the case that the Tory MPs who quite like what they hear
:52:17. > :52:20.from Keir Starmer about staying inside the single market and the
:52:21. > :52:23.customs union for transitional arrangements and are worried about
:52:24. > :52:27.the number of powers ministers are in gorging in the process of this
:52:28. > :52:32.shifting of legislation across, are you really saying that if they back
:52:33. > :52:35.Labour in amendments in the House of Commons, they will let in Jeremy
:52:36. > :52:43.Corbyn? There is an even more important issue. We made plain, this
:52:44. > :52:48.bill is there in order to enable continuity. If you want a soft
:52:49. > :52:52.Brexit, and I do not deal with soft and hard, I want an effective and
:52:53. > :52:56.successful Brexit. If you want something like continuity, this is
:52:57. > :53:01.the bill you should be supporting. It takes as someone said on your
:53:02. > :53:05.sofa earlier, it takes the law is there know and put them in place the
:53:06. > :53:10.day after we leave. I think it was Caroline Flint. It is not just a
:53:11. > :53:15.question of the national politics, it is a question of what is right.
:53:16. > :53:18.Poor old Keir Starmer, I am negotiating with Brussels, he is
:53:19. > :53:24.negotiating with the rest of his party. Quite successfully. The
:53:25. > :53:29.seventh, eighth, ninth position, depending on how you count them, in
:53:30. > :53:34.12 months. Tom Watson's proposal, staying in the single market in
:53:35. > :53:38.perpetuity, is a direct rebuttal of what they promised their own voters
:53:39. > :53:42.in the last election. They said they would support Brexit and put it
:53:43. > :53:47.through. What Tom Watson is saying effectively, an old mate of mine, he
:53:48. > :53:51.said, we will carry on, stay in the single market. You cannot do that.
:53:52. > :53:55.Nevertheless, let us get real, what is going on is that Jeremy Corbyn
:53:56. > :53:59.and the Labour leadership understand that if they will pull down your
:54:00. > :54:14.government, the only way to do it is over this issue,
:54:15. > :54:18.so they will try and destroy you in the House of Commons. They have gone
:54:19. > :54:20.in for the most cynical approach. They know the bill is necessary.
:54:21. > :54:23.Keir Starmer admitted that to you. They know the claims they make
:54:24. > :54:25.nonsense, Henry VIII powers, made it sound as if... Dominic Grieve,
:54:26. > :54:27.former colleague, Tory backbencher, he agrees with him. He has not come
:54:28. > :54:30.up with an alternative, and neither has Keir Starmer. The best authority
:54:31. > :54:34.on this is the constitutional committee on the House of Lords,
:54:35. > :54:37.very strong remainer body, the House of Lords, the constitutional
:54:38. > :54:42.committee says, this is the way it has to be done, you have to have
:54:43. > :54:46.secondary legislation. Tory MPs thinking of voting with their
:54:47. > :54:59.opposition, what is your last brief message? Everything that is
:55:00. > :55:01.significant in terms of changes, not technical changes, it will be done
:55:02. > :55:03.in separate primary legislation, immigration bills, customs, you name
:55:04. > :55:05.it. This bill is about ensuring continuity. Anybody, they should
:55:06. > :55:09.support this bill. When you saw that Theresa May whose conduct at the
:55:10. > :55:12.last general election campaign you were not totally happy with is
:55:13. > :55:16.determined to fight the next one, did your heart lift? She is a great
:55:17. > :55:21.Prime Minister. I have served her for the last 12 months and I have
:55:22. > :55:25.never been anything less than impressed by the way she runs the
:55:26. > :55:28.country, that is what matters, not the politics, running the country,
:55:29. > :55:29.and she does a good job. Thank you for talking to us.
:55:30. > :55:34.Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
:55:35. > :55:39.Should soldiers who served in Northern Ireland face questions
:55:40. > :55:43.about killings dating back nearly 50 years? Should memorials the famous
:55:44. > :55:47.figures including Nelson be torn down because of their support for
:55:48. > :55:52.slavery? What leaders of so-called Islamic State told the Vicar of
:55:53. > :55:56.Baghdad when he invited them round for a meal. Join us at 10am.
:55:57. > :56:00.Just enough time to tell you that next week we're
:56:01. > :56:04.For one week only, that's a half eight start here
:56:05. > :56:07.on BBC One because of coverage of the Great North Run.
:56:08. > :56:09.Before we go today, music as promised.
:56:10. > :56:12.Eva Peron was both revered and reviled as First Lady of Argentina.
:56:13. > :56:15.Evita enjoyed a personality cult that is still alive and well among
:56:16. > :56:20.many Argentinians in this, the 65th anniversary of her death.
:56:21. > :56:22.There were commemorations right across the country this summer
:56:23. > :56:27.Well, the musical of Evita is back in London, where it started
:56:28. > :56:31.And the star of the show is here this morning
:56:32. > :56:42.We leave you now with Emma Hatton and Don't Cry For Me Argentina.
:56:43. > :57:15.# All you will see is a girl you once knew
:57:16. > :57:22.# Although she's dressed up to the nines
:57:23. > :57:49.# All through my wild days, my mad existence
:57:50. > :58:08.# And as for fortune, and as for fame
:58:09. > :58:20.# Though it seemed to the world they were all I desired
:58:21. > :58:32.# They're not the solutions they promised to be
:58:33. > :58:48.# And hope you love me all the time I love you
:58:49. > :58:54.# Don't cry for me, Argentina
:58:55. > :59:00.# The truth is, I never left you