0:00:04 > 0:00:08Remember, remember, the 5th of November.
0:00:08 > 0:00:13Backbiting, leaking and plot.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16If this lot gets clear to November next year, it's all down to
0:00:16 > 0:00:24luck, quite a lot.
0:00:34 > 0:00:38Now, both major parties have been rocked by
0:00:38 > 0:00:44allegations of gross misbehaviour by their MPs.
0:00:44 > 0:00:47To talk about that and more I'm joined by the Home
0:00:47 > 0:00:48Secretary Amber Rudd, and Labour's Women and Equalities
0:00:48 > 0:00:50Secretary Dawn Butler.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53But for those of you wondering what else is happening in the world
0:00:53 > 0:00:55beyond Westminster, I'm talking to Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin
0:00:55 > 0:01:04Netanyahu - about the peace process, Iran, and anti-Semitism in Britain.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07And, as it happens, the story from that new blockbuster Murder
0:01:07 > 0:01:16on the Orient Express opens in Jerusalem.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19I've been talking to two of its stars, Michelle Pfeiffer
0:01:19 > 0:01:24and Olivia Colman, who told me her reaction to
0:01:24 > 0:01:26landing the role of the Queen in Netflix's The Crown.
0:01:26 > 0:01:34Then my agent said, "Would you go and meet - it's a
0:01:34 > 0:01:37secret," and she was trying to be subtle -
0:01:37 > 0:01:38and I went, "The Crown, The
0:01:38 > 0:01:39Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"
0:01:39 > 0:01:41And reviewing the news this morning, the
0:01:41 > 0:01:44former Tory Defence Minister Anna Soubry, Sam
0:01:44 > 0:01:46Coates, the deputy political editor of the Times,
0:01:46 > 0:01:47and the Labour MP Kate Hoey.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49But first the news with Roger Johnson.
0:01:49 > 0:01:50Good morning.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52Theresa May's most senior minister, Damian Green,
0:01:52 > 0:01:52The
0:01:52 > 0:01:54has denied that pornography was found on a computer
0:01:54 > 0:01:57when his Westminster office was raided by police in 2008.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59The claim, made by a former senior police officer,
0:01:59 > 0:02:09is reported in the Sunday Times.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13Mr Green, who is First Secretary of State, said the allegation
0:02:13 > 0:02:15was completely untrue, and came from an untrustworthy source.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18More allegations have emerged about the conduct of MPs this morning,
0:02:18 > 0:02:24as our political correspondent Iain Watson reports.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27That allegation in the Sunday Times that pornography
0:02:27 > 0:02:29was found on a computer in Damian Green's office
0:02:29 > 0:02:30dates from 2008.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32This was during a controversial inquiry into Home Office
0:02:32 > 0:02:34leaks, which briefly led to Mr Green's arrest.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37As Theresa May's second-in-command, she wouldn't want to lose him
0:02:37 > 0:02:39from her Cabinet, and he's responded robustly to the allegation.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42In a statement, he said, "This story is completely untrue."
0:02:42 > 0:02:43He called it "A disreputable political smear."
0:02:43 > 0:02:49He added...
0:02:56 > 0:02:59In turn, he accuses the officer in charge of the investigation nine
0:02:59 > 0:03:01years ago, Bob Quick, of breaching his duty
0:03:01 > 0:03:04to keep the details of the investigation confidential.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08Mr Quick has been unavailable for comment.
0:03:08 > 0:03:13This weekend allegations of improper behaviour in and around Westminster
0:03:13 > 0:03:17have been filling the front pages, and even when ministers resign
0:03:17 > 0:03:24that's rarely the end of the story.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26Another allegation has emerged about Sir Michael
0:03:26 > 0:03:34Fallon's past behaviour - in the Observer newspaper
0:03:34 > 0:03:37the journalist Jane Merrick said she informed Downing Street this
0:03:37 > 0:03:38week of an incident in 2003.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40And hours later he resigned as Defence Secretary.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42Friends of some Michael Fallon have denied the allegation,
0:03:42 > 0:03:45but it is understood his ministerial career ended because he couldn't
0:03:45 > 0:03:47guarantee they would be no further revelations.
0:03:47 > 0:03:48Iain Watson, BBC News.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50President Trump has arrived in Japan, the first stop on what
0:03:50 > 0:03:54will be the longest tour of Asia by a US President in 25 years.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56Mr Trump's trip comes at a time of heightened tensions
0:03:56 > 0:04:02with North Korea over its nuclear programme and missile tests.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05He's already met the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at
0:04:05 > 0:04:06a country club for a round of golf.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09Social media giants must do more to stop child sexual exploitation,
0:04:09 > 0:04:13the Home Secretary has said,
0:04:13 > 0:04:16as new Government figures show a rise in indecent images
0:04:16 > 0:04:25of children being reported to the police.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Writing in the Sun on Sunday, Amber Rudd, a guest on this
0:04:29 > 0:04:30programme in a moment, said that companies
0:04:30 > 0:04:33have a moral duty to go further and faster in tackling abuse.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35Technology firms insist they're doing their utmost
0:04:35 > 0:04:36to keep their young users safe.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38That's all from me.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.
0:04:40 > 0:04:41Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:41 > 0:04:42Thank you, Roger.
0:04:42 > 0:04:43Now to the papers.
0:04:43 > 0:04:44and on and
0:04:49 > 0:04:53-- and there is the Jane Merrick story about that incident some time
0:04:53 > 0:04:58ago. And this is on the role of the whips in all this, have they
0:04:58 > 0:05:01released information as quickly as they should have to the Prime
0:05:01 > 0:05:08Minister, or is it indeed all being driven by press? Top Tory's
0:05:08 > 0:05:19bathrobe... That very same story about the Damian Green in
0:05:19 > 0:05:25pornography shock, the story he has denied. We will start with you.Yes,
0:05:25 > 0:05:29if you had told me a week ago I would be reading a statement from
0:05:29 > 0:05:34the de facto Deputy Prime Minister like this I would have laughed it
0:05:34 > 0:05:38off, but this is no laughing matter. Last night Damian Green released
0:05:38 > 0:05:41under him and statement denying a number of allegations appearing in
0:05:41 > 0:05:46these newspapers this morning. He said suggestions there was some kind
0:05:46 > 0:05:51of pornography on equipment that was seized from his office in 2009 is
0:05:51 > 0:05:59completely Andre -- untrue. This is an week he released.Bob quick is
0:05:59 > 0:06:06named on the front page of the Sunday Times.Yes, the former head
0:06:06 > 0:06:10of counterterrorism who lost his job some years ago, and he essentially
0:06:10 > 0:06:14blames him for, as it were, political smear, and denies the
0:06:14 > 0:06:19allegation covering the front page of the Sunday Times.Sam, going back
0:06:19 > 0:06:23to the origins of all this, when the Tories were in opposition and I
0:06:23 > 0:06:26think Damian Green was the spokesperson on home affairs he got
0:06:26 > 0:06:29a series of leaks from the Home Office which the then Labour
0:06:29 > 0:06:35Government sent the Home Office into enquire about and they were sent
0:06:35 > 0:06:39into his office, huge investigation and he was exonerated and so on, but
0:06:39 > 0:06:43this goes back to them because the man leading the hunt was the same Mr
0:06:43 > 0:06:50Quick is on the front page of the Times.The allegation, which Mr
0:06:50 > 0:06:54Green denies, was that on one of the laptops seized as part of that raid
0:06:54 > 0:06:58there was deeply unpleasant, not illegal, but unpleasant images, the
0:06:58 > 0:07:01sort of thing that would perhaps mean you could no longer continue in
0:07:01 > 0:07:06your job if it was a public official and on their laptop, but
0:07:06 > 0:07:11nevertheless so problematic.I am trying to be as fair as possible.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15This was a laptop in his office. There was no understanding it was
0:07:15 > 0:07:18actually him... If the material was there it could have been somebody
0:07:18 > 0:07:21else, people in and out of the office and working for them all the
0:07:21 > 0:07:28time.This matter will now form part of the inquiry into Damian Green's
0:07:28 > 0:07:32conduct, but be aware of the kind of hurdles you would have to get past
0:07:32 > 0:07:36to fight against them, you would have to establish beyond doubt the
0:07:36 > 0:07:40material was there, that he had looked at it, that he perhaps had
0:07:40 > 0:07:43downloaded it.Lots of unanswerable questions then. We will come onto
0:07:43 > 0:07:49the politics in a moment, but let's talk about the Jane Merrick story.
0:07:49 > 0:07:56Firstly, lets make this clear, with Damian, who is it should have been
0:07:56 > 0:07:59suspended to that could have been a proper inquiry, this has formed that
0:07:59 > 0:08:03and instead we are pretty much having trialled by the newspapers.
0:08:03 > 0:08:08This is not acceptable. These are very serious allegations in relation
0:08:08 > 0:08:13to other people and it has all been blurred and conflated and this is a
0:08:13 > 0:08:17disgraceful way for us to conduct our politics and very serious
0:08:17 > 0:08:22allegations, and further evidence of that is that Jane Merrick, who has
0:08:22 > 0:08:27been outstandingly brave, the way she found herself in a position
0:08:27 > 0:08:31where something had happened to her some time ago, and where did she go
0:08:31 > 0:08:35in order to make a complaint? As we now no, she went to Harriet Harman,
0:08:35 > 0:08:40and then to me, and we both absolutely promised to keep her
0:08:40 > 0:08:47identity confidential and we stuck to that, and then I contacted Number
0:08:47 > 0:08:54Ten, and as a result of that Jane contacted Number Ten. And I know the
0:08:54 > 0:09:00Courage...This is why he has resigned?Yes. And to be clear about
0:09:00 > 0:09:04this, we cannot have today this going on any longer. People must
0:09:04 > 0:09:07have, today, a system where they don't have to go to the press in
0:09:07 > 0:09:12order to make their complaint or have to find some MP's telephone
0:09:12 > 0:09:16number they know who would take things seriously. This is all about
0:09:16 > 0:09:21protecting other men and, notably, women, and there is nothing the
0:09:21 > 0:09:26moment... I think our Prime Minister must lead on this, and she must give
0:09:26 > 0:09:30an assurance that, you know, people must be able now to make their
0:09:30 > 0:09:35complaints, so that we stop the sort of behaviour that Jane and others
0:09:35 > 0:09:39have had to endure for years.OK, now, to be absolutely clear to
0:09:39 > 0:09:45everyone I should see some Michael Fallon denies a lot of...He doesn't
0:09:45 > 0:09:52deny what he did to Jane.Trial by newspaper is also a very interesting
0:09:52 > 0:09:56phrase because you are quoted on the front page of the Sunday Telegraph
0:09:56 > 0:10:00talking about the Whips' Office. "It Is difficult to know that for didn't
0:10:00 > 0:10:02know much of the detail of these various allegations, and they
0:10:02 > 0:10:08probably know more. I was astonished that Gavin Williamson was appointed
0:10:08 > 0:10:11as Defence Secretary." They used to keep what we called the Black book,
0:10:11 > 0:10:18now the black spreadsheet, facts on MPs to basically use as blackmail...
0:10:18 > 0:10:21That is not true. At the very top of the Whips' Office, as far as I know
0:10:21 > 0:10:24because I have never been a whip, and this is in both parties, there
0:10:24 > 0:10:29will be stuff that is known about people, you might have a drink, so
0:10:29 > 0:10:33somebody might actually assault weapon, and the have that
0:10:33 > 0:10:36information for a pastoral role when people go to make complaints, and
0:10:36 > 0:10:39this is the problem the Whips' Office has. Their primary role is to
0:10:39 > 0:10:43make sure Government or opposition business goes through, but of course
0:10:43 > 0:10:47they have these are the roles which are incredibly important, the
0:10:47 > 0:10:50welfare of members of Parliament, of our staff, and at the same time,
0:10:50 > 0:10:54though, they are trying to get Government business through, so it
0:10:54 > 0:10:59is a contradiction and that has to stop, at the senior level of the
0:10:59 > 0:11:00Whips' Office, undoubtedly, they have known all manner of
0:11:00 > 0:11:04allegations, and again I think the time has now come when we have to
0:11:04 > 0:11:08draw a halt to this. All the stuff that they know must be given to the
0:11:08 > 0:11:14Prime Minister and her aides, one in particular who are completely trust,
0:11:14 > 0:11:18and we must do things properly, and not do this behind the scenes, in
0:11:18 > 0:11:23some instances covering up which is totally unacceptable, but also when
0:11:23 > 0:11:26there are allegations, they go to the police or some other body
0:11:26 > 0:11:31immediately, so we don't have people's reputation is being trashed
0:11:31 > 0:11:35in the newspapers.OK, and to be absolutely clear, before I come onto
0:11:35 > 0:11:38the BORIS BECKER:, tomorrow morning the Prime Minister sits down with
0:11:38 > 0:11:44all of this in front of her. What should she do? -- before I come
0:11:44 > 0:11:49onto Kate, tomorrow morning.Well, Esther will not know much of this
0:11:49 > 0:11:54because she has just come on, but she needs to go to the Chief Whip
0:11:54 > 0:11:58and so on and say, criminal investigations must go straight to
0:11:58 > 0:12:01the police, other matters must go into a new thing she needs to create
0:12:01 > 0:12:05immediately some people like Jane don't have to go around in the way I
0:12:05 > 0:12:10described, and this must also happen in Kate's party because it is just
0:12:10 > 0:12:15as big a problem...In the Labour Party there have been allegations of
0:12:15 > 0:12:18rape, groping, really gross misconduct while Labour officials
0:12:18 > 0:12:24and MPs as well and at least one person, John Mann...Yes, I think we
0:12:24 > 0:12:28can all agree this is crossing party, no credit any political party
0:12:28 > 0:12:35can take out of this, but John Mann, who has done a lot of work on this
0:12:35 > 0:12:38in the Sunday People today, he has come up with a number of steps we
0:12:38 > 0:12:41need to take, and I think it is important talking about what is
0:12:41 > 0:12:46happening now that we need to seriously look at what we can do. It
0:12:46 > 0:12:50is interesting, Anna, because one thing he is very clear on is the
0:12:50 > 0:12:53whips, and detox specifically about Labour whips and the Labour
0:12:53 > 0:12:57readership not to hate reports of abuse and harassment -- is speaks
0:12:57 > 0:13:02specifically about. Parliament is a huge working institution that has
0:13:02 > 0:13:07not been brought up to modern times. And we are all supposed to employ
0:13:07 > 0:13:10our own staff but most people did not get elected to Parliament to
0:13:10 > 0:13:15have personnel, and saw all that needs to be looked at but the one
0:13:15 > 0:13:18thing I would say, I think it is really important that anyone accused
0:13:18 > 0:13:27of anything is given a second back and open way of responding,
0:13:27 > 0:13:31otherwise I think there will be a lot of things that happen... People
0:13:31 > 0:13:35see things for grievances and all sorts of reasons and we need
0:13:35 > 0:13:39absolute transparency.Absolutely, Sam, and I suggested we would come
0:13:39 > 0:13:43onto the hard politics that flows from all of this. What sort of depth
0:13:43 > 0:13:47of trouble is the Government in now, do you think?I think it is
0:13:47 > 0:13:52significant. You have to remember we were already
0:13:52 > 0:13:55dealing with the most fragile Government of my lifetime, one that
0:13:55 > 0:13:58does not have a majority in the Commons, the Prime Minister lost
0:13:58 > 0:14:02quite a lot of authority by calling the election that backfired and it
0:14:02 > 0:14:06has the most difficult task of any Government of the last 40 years in
0:14:06 > 0:14:09terms of Brexit, which they have to do while having no money. That is
0:14:09 > 0:14:13the backdrop. At the heart of what we are seeing at the moment, you
0:14:13 > 0:14:24have a really worrying situation from the Government point of view.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26This Government is essentially run by two people, so Jeremy Heywood,
0:14:26 > 0:14:28the Cabinet Secretary, and Damian Green. Damian Green is under
0:14:28 > 0:14:34investigation for allegations he denies.Is being investigated...By
0:14:34 > 0:14:38Sir Jeromy, the ten days ago revealed he had been ill quite
0:14:38 > 0:14:41recently with cancer, so you have a situation where the top of the
0:14:41 > 0:14:47Government feels very fragile. If it is, what we see at the moment, it
0:14:47 > 0:14:52leads to Damian Green's departure, it would be a massive further blow,
0:14:52 > 0:14:56and there are MPs, ministers and Cabinet ministers incredibly worried
0:14:56 > 0:15:00about whether or not this Government can continue to hang on, not that
0:15:00 > 0:15:06they have any idea what to do in its place.But I think it is a bigger
0:15:06 > 0:15:11thing.Bigger than that?It is how we conduct politics and I think most
0:15:11 > 0:15:14people watching politics at home on this programme, in the real world,
0:15:14 > 0:15:20they will see damn all of you.I need to move onto one big political
0:15:20 > 0:15:25story. Brexit carries on through all of this, and there are two stories,
0:15:25 > 0:15:29Kate, about Brexit, one in the Sunday Express, an interesting new
0:15:29 > 0:15:35proposal for Frank Field?
0:15:35 > 0:15:43Frank feels as many of us do, this whole EU Withdrawal Bill, which has
0:15:43 > 0:15:47400 amendments, 69 pages. It's all meant to be done in the next number
0:15:47 > 0:15:51of months. But, of course, what he is saying is we could do it
0:15:51 > 0:15:57differently. We could have a very simple four-clause bill which puts
0:15:57 > 0:16:02the date of leaving which then brings all of the law automatically
0:16:02 > 0:16:08into our law and then we can move on to actually look at what we want to
0:16:08 > 0:16:11keep and what we don't.From your side of the argument, there are
0:16:11 > 0:16:15people who think Parliament will betray the vote?Yes, I think what
0:16:15 > 0:16:21he says here, he put it very strongly, too many he doesn't name
0:16:21 > 0:16:26people, MPs were wolves in sheep's clothing. They're pretending they
0:16:26 > 0:16:28wish to engage crop instructively with the Government to improve the
0:16:28 > 0:16:33bill but too many of this group have really the aim of wrecking the bill.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37I'm aphrase that is the feeling out there in the country. This is
0:16:37 > 0:16:41getting delayed so much, there are so many people who are actually
0:16:41 > 0:16:47almost working against the interests of getting a good deal. He's, his
0:16:47 > 0:16:50clause will be one of the first ones. I'm sure Anna will be opposing
0:16:50 > 0:16:58it. It will be one. First comingup. Anna's sitting there...Look, we
0:16:58 > 0:17:07need to put all this law into the substantive British law. You have a
0:17:07 > 0:17:09former Attorney General, Dominic Grieve, hardly known as some pink
0:17:09 > 0:17:17Tory. I'm a lawyer, Nicky Morgan's a lawyer, this is a nothing wrong with
0:17:17 > 0:17:20that, we are protecting our constitution and we want a good
0:17:20 > 0:17:25deal.We've finally run Ute of time. We could sit here engaging in
0:17:25 > 0:17:28converse all morning. But much else to talk about.
0:17:28 > 0:17:30Now, as we've been hearing, allegations of sexual harassment
0:17:30 > 0:17:33and, even, rape, are issues for the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn
0:17:33 > 0:17:35as much as for the Government.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37I'm joined by Dawn Butler, Labour's Shadow Secretary
0:17:37 > 0:17:39for Women & Equalities.
0:17:39 > 0:17:44Do you accept the Labour Party faces just as serious allegations and
0:17:44 > 0:17:47problems as the Conservative do?It is an issue which needs to be
0:17:47 > 0:17:51tackled seriously. We need to address it in Parliament. But also,
0:17:51 > 0:17:55everywhere else. It is not just unique to Westminster. We have to
0:17:55 > 0:17:58address it. The Labour Party has to take it seriously. I think the
0:17:58 > 0:18:03Labour Party has proved to be taking it seriously.Well, that's the
0:18:03 > 0:18:08question really for the Labour Party Kelvin Hopkins was the subject of
0:18:08 > 0:18:12very serious allegations by a young Labour Party worker. Can I ask you
0:18:12 > 0:18:16first of all, at what point the leadership new about these
0:18:16 > 0:18:23allegations? I don't want to discuss individual cases because I think
0:18:23 > 0:18:26that's inappropriate, especially if there's an investigation taking
0:18:26 > 0:18:32place. As with anything, if I can talk generally, if somebody's being
0:18:32 > 0:18:36promoted into the Shadow Cabinet, say, it is in order for the whip to
0:18:36 > 0:18:39say whether there's an outstanding issue against somebody or an issue
0:18:39 > 0:18:43that's been resolved. If there was an issue and it's been resolved,
0:18:43 > 0:18:48that's the the end of the matter. If it is an issue which is ongoing,
0:18:48 > 0:18:53that's something very different. It is important... That the processes
0:18:53 > 0:18:57are right. They are clear, it is important they are France parent and
0:18:57 > 0:19:02it is important if -- transparent. It is important someone's issues is
0:19:02 > 0:19:05staken seriously and they are treated sensitively throughout the
0:19:05 > 0:19:16process.This is only words unless action is taking. Your then chief
0:19:16 > 0:19:20win said she horrified. She said it is not too late to change this
0:19:20 > 0:19:24appointment but the appointment was maintained. That has caused a lot of
0:19:24 > 0:19:29hurt and upset to ordinary Labour Party members.Andrew, I don't know
0:19:29 > 0:19:35what Rosie Winterton said in that regard.She's been public about it.
0:19:35 > 0:19:39But understand is when the Chief Whip was informed of an issue
0:19:39 > 0:19:43against a member, it was dealt with by both sides and they were both
0:19:43 > 0:19:47happy with the outcome. If that's the case, the process is if there is
0:19:47 > 0:19:51an issue and that issue's dealt with and both sides are happy, then
0:19:51 > 0:19:54that's the end of the matter.Do you know whether or not Jeremy Corbyn
0:19:54 > 0:20:00was told?As I said, I don't want to talk about individual cases.Let's
0:20:00 > 0:20:03talk a the leader of the Labour Party. Did he know?I want to talk
0:20:03 > 0:20:06about the process. If the leader of the Labour Party was told there was
0:20:06 > 0:20:11an issue against a member and that issue has now been rest afflict to
0:20:11 > 0:20:14the agreement of both sides, then it's not something... What we don't
0:20:14 > 0:20:19have in Parliament, if you were to say to, Andrew, one second. If you
0:20:19 > 0:20:24said to me there is an issue of sanctions, that's different. If
0:20:24 > 0:20:28someone's been given a verbal abolishment and there's a sanction
0:20:28 > 0:20:32to say you cannot be promoted for six or 12 months, that's a different
0:20:32 > 0:20:37issue. Which haven't got that in pavement. Maybe at the meeting
0:20:37 > 0:20:41tomorrow with the Prime Minister we can talk about sanctions. If there
0:20:41 > 0:20:45is a case against an MP, where they are suspended or there's an
0:20:45 > 0:20:48investigation, that needs to be due process. It needs to be transparent
0:20:48 > 0:20:52and clear.We want that but in the end, this is the same old business.
0:20:52 > 0:20:57It was swept under the carpet at the time. You said the woman concerned
0:20:57 > 0:21:01was perfectly happy in. In which case why has she been all over the
0:21:01 > 0:21:06media talking about this experience. She was deeply upset and inningered
0:21:06 > 0:21:12about this.The Labour Party kept it private. That's not what I said. I
0:21:12 > 0:21:15said if the cheap whip says to the leader of the Labour Party there was
0:21:15 > 0:21:20an issue and that case was resolved and both sides were happy, I said
0:21:20 > 0:21:25its reasonable for the leader to do what the leader wants to do. If it
0:21:25 > 0:21:28is an outstanding case and both sides are not happy, that's
0:21:28 > 0:21:34different. I want to make sure.She isn't happy. That's the problem? .
0:21:34 > 0:21:39Maybe somebody was misinformed. I want to say we have to get the
0:21:39 > 0:21:42processes right, cricket and France parent. That's why there is an
0:21:42 > 0:21:46investigation. We need to, rather than try and guess what's been said,
0:21:46 > 0:21:49we need to have the investigation. At the end of the investigation you
0:21:49 > 0:21:55can call me back on the show and I can Fawke factually about what's
0:21:55 > 0:21:59happened or not happened.The woman concerned said exactly what she says
0:21:59 > 0:22:03happened all over the media for days and days now. We know what the Chief
0:22:03 > 0:22:08Whip said. She said that publicly for days and days. You can't say
0:22:08 > 0:22:13this is something we'll have to investigate in due course?It has to
0:22:13 > 0:22:21be. If the Chief Whip has been told something and now something
0:22:21 > 0:22:26different, that has to be investigated, exactly what was said
0:22:26 > 0:22:31at what time.Let's turn to another issue.Because of the information,
0:22:31 > 0:22:35that's why Kelvin's now been suspended. It is important to talk
0:22:35 > 0:22:38about policy and process rather than get into individual cases.Like
0:22:38 > 0:22:46Kelvin. Let me ask you about Bex Bailey. You be on behalf of the
0:22:46 > 0:22:52Labour Party apollingologyise to her for what happened?Absolutely. Bex
0:22:52 > 0:22:55Bailey has gone through a traumatic experience. What has happened to her
0:22:55 > 0:23:00and the fact she felt she was unable to get anyone to listen to her...At
0:23:00 > 0:23:04the time she was told not to pursue this by the Labour Party.So, this
0:23:04 > 0:23:08is why, Andrew, there needs to be a thorough investigation and that is
0:23:08 > 0:23:15why Jeremy Corbyn has called for a very renowned, established QC to
0:23:15 > 0:23:19investigate this matter urgently and have a response urgently. I'm really
0:23:19 > 0:23:24sorry what happened to Bex. She has been extraordinarily brave. With you
0:23:24 > 0:23:27need a process where you don't have to be brave to come forward, for
0:23:27 > 0:23:31justice to be done. You we should have a policy in place where women
0:23:31 > 0:23:35don't have to be brave. It just has to be dealt with.Dawn, butler,
0:23:35 > 0:23:37thank you for talking to us.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39Coming up later this morning.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41On the Sunday Politics, Sarah Smith will be talking
0:23:41 > 0:23:43to Shadow Defence Secretary Nia Griffith
0:23:43 > 0:23:45and the former MP George Galloway, among others.
0:23:45 > 0:23:46That's the Sunday Politics at 11 o'clock.
0:23:46 > 0:23:48Sir Billy Connolly, who was knighted this week
0:23:48 > 0:23:50by the Duke of Cambridge, once said, very wisely,
0:23:50 > 0:23:53that there was no such thing as bad weather,
0:23:53 > 0:23:55only inappropriate clothing.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57That is, I suspect, our text for the day.
0:23:57 > 0:24:01Over to Matt Taylor in the weather studio.
0:24:01 > 0:24:03Over to Matt Taylor in the weather studio.
0:24:03 > 0:24:07I couldn't agree more. Today, clothing-wise. Warm jackets for all
0:24:07 > 0:24:11weather. We've the sunshine across many parts of the country so far
0:24:11 > 0:24:15this morning. Maybe a waterproof warm jacket for some too. These are
0:24:15 > 0:24:20big shower clouds on the horizon in Rochdale. There are some fairly
0:24:20 > 0:24:24heavy showers through parts of the Midland, south-west, in Northern
0:24:24 > 0:24:27Ireland and the north of Scot ranked. They were wintry over higher
0:24:27 > 0:24:31ground. Showers becoming fewer in number for many during the
0:24:31 > 0:24:40afternoon. One or two down the east coast. Chilly in breeze but fine,
0:24:40 > 0:24:44sunny weather to enjoy. Clear skies tonight for any fireworks displays
0:24:44 > 0:24:50taking place. Most will avoid showers. A frost will quickly form.
0:24:50 > 0:24:55Temperatures dropping well below freezing away from the towns and
0:24:55 > 0:25:00centres. An early grown for commuters toppled. Could be the need
0:25:00 > 0:25:04for the ice scraper out. Dry and sunny for most. Sunshine lasting
0:25:04 > 0:25:07longer through the Midland and eastern parts. Quickly clouding over
0:25:07 > 0:25:11Scotland and Northern Ireland. Odd splash of rain elsewhere also
0:25:11 > 0:25:15spreading into western parts of the England and Wales. By Tuesday, it is
0:25:15 > 0:25:18the waterproofs which will be required as rain spreads from west
0:25:18 > 0:25:22to east. Back to youment Appropriate clothing all round.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24In 1917, the British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour
0:25:24 > 0:25:27wrote a letter announcing his conversion to the idea
0:25:27 > 0:25:29that the Jewish people should have a national home in Israel.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32This Balfour Declaration is regarded as one of the founding documents
0:25:32 > 0:25:35of the State of Israel, and to celebrate its centenary,
0:25:35 > 0:25:38Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu
0:25:38 > 0:25:41has come to London, where he's been in talks with Theresa May.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44To some, he is the arch defender of the Jewish people.
0:25:44 > 0:25:47To others, he is a bellicose hardliner dedicated to expanding the
0:25:47 > 0:25:50very settlements seen by Palestinian Arabs as the obstacle to peace.
0:25:50 > 0:25:56He joins me now.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59Welcome Prime Minister,The good part was shorter than the bad part.
0:25:59 > 0:26:03Let me turn to the bad part. The second bit of the Balfour
0:26:03 > 0:26:09declaration. Nothing shall be done which prejudices the civil and
0:26:09 > 0:26:13religious rights of existing non-Jewist people in Palestine. Has
0:26:13 > 0:26:16that been held to by your Government?They talk about the
0:26:16 > 0:26:21civil and religious rights. Israel's Arabs citizens are the only Arabs in
0:26:21 > 0:26:26the middle east who enjoy genuine civic and religious right. Religious
0:26:26 > 0:26:31free Dom is protected in Israel as nowhere else tragically in the
0:26:31 > 0:26:35middle east. Civil rights, Supreme Court judge, Arab ministers,
0:26:35 > 0:26:40including in my Government who are Arabs, dues and members of the
0:26:40 > 0:26:44Parliament who are Arabs and so on. I would like to see more involvement
0:26:44 > 0:26:49from the Arabs in civil life.In Israel and occupied territories,
0:26:49 > 0:26:52there are pretty gross human rights breaches. Whether it is a child
0:26:52 > 0:26:59impressed on by military court or shot unjustifiably or a house
0:26:59 > 0:27:03demolished because lack of a permit, few Palestinians have escaped
0:27:03 > 0:27:08serious rights abuses during the 50-year occupation. Again, Amnesty
0:27:08 > 0:27:15International say much the same. Israeli forces unlawfully killed
0:27:15 > 0:27:18Palestine people, including children and detained thousands of
0:27:18 > 0:27:21Palestinians who opposed Israel's continuing military occupation
0:27:21 > 0:27:27holding hundreds in administrative detention, torture and other ill
0:27:27 > 0:27:30treatment of detainees remained rife. That is not in the spirit of
0:27:30 > 0:27:36the Balfour declaration.I does by the the arguments about torture and
0:27:36 > 0:27:41the statement here. No democracy has been threatened like Israel with
0:27:41 > 0:27:44enemies that seek our destruction and fired thousands of missiles on
0:27:44 > 0:27:48us. Just imagine thousands and thousands of missiles on London. You
0:27:48 > 0:27:52don't have to imagine it. You've had it. Look at what was done in
0:27:52 > 0:27:58retribution. We haven't done that. We act in moral ways. Our army.
0:27:58 > 0:28:04There's no more more alarmy in the world that's maligned. The battle of
0:28:04 > 0:28:09Israel, the battle I'm involved with, is to dispel thee lice. I have
0:28:09 > 0:28:14no compunction in doing so. Israel stands out as a beacon of democracy
0:28:14 > 0:28:19and self-restraint in a sea of troubles in the wanton, violent
0:28:19 > 0:28:23attacks which are meant to destroy us. That should serve as an ample to
0:28:23 > 0:28:27others around us. There are others in the region who do not do this.If
0:28:27 > 0:28:32there is one thing that upsets supporters of the Israel, including
0:28:32 > 0:28:36many Jewish leaders in country, is the push of settlements. Your own
0:28:36 > 0:28:42defence minister said the rate of sitlements from areas ask faster
0:28:42 > 0:28:48than at any time since 2009. This is the one thing that makes supporters
0:28:48 > 0:28:52of Israel Des pair, including in this Government?I think the
0:28:52 > 0:28:54settlements are an issue. They are not the
0:28:54 > 0:29:01settlements are an issue. They are not the issue. . The issue is the
0:29:01 > 0:29:07100-year-old persistent refusal of the Palestinian leadership to
0:29:07 > 0:29:13recognise the state and Jewish boundary. I do take issue with one
0:29:13 > 0:29:20other thing since I am here. I think the idea that dues cannot live in
0:29:20 > 0:29:23Judea is crazy.At the moment, this is Palestinian territory. You are
0:29:23 > 0:29:34putting...It is disputed territory. The UN says it is a flag rant breach
0:29:34 > 0:29:45of the law.People I think the facts are different. I think the central
0:29:45 > 0:29:52fact is this. Settlements is a side issue. Because...Not to the
0:29:52 > 0:29:57Palestinians, it's not.I think it is too. When we removed all the
0:29:57 > 0:30:03settlements from Gazza and did what they say, go back to the 67 lines,
0:30:03 > 0:30:08take away the settlements, Gazza didn't become peaceful. They
0:30:08 > 0:30:14launched thousands of rockets from Gazza we vacated from Israel. Not
0:30:14 > 0:30:20against Tel Aviv, jeer us 'em. Every part of Israel. I asked them why
0:30:20 > 0:30:25they are doing this rhetorically. Is it to liberate the West Bank. They
0:30:25 > 0:30:32said, that too, no, we want to liberate Palestine. Tel Aviv.You're
0:30:32 > 0:30:37in a war with ham mass. They've done a deal with Fatah. Do you
0:30:37 > 0:30:42distinguish between Fatah and Hamas in this regard?Yes, I do. Hamas
0:30:42 > 0:30:45takes it's goal of destroying Israel and translates it into act of
0:30:45 > 0:30:50terror. That is the not case with the Palestinian Authority. One would
0:30:50 > 0:30:55hope that Hamas would move to that position and not have the
0:30:55 > 0:30:59Palestinian Authority move to Hamas. I would say this, unity for peace is
0:30:59 > 0:31:04good. Unity for the destruction of Israel is bad. And that's what we're
0:31:04 > 0:31:11looking at.
0:31:11 > 0:31:15What is also clear is that your policy for Gaza is not working, the
0:31:15 > 0:31:22policy of having a kind of cordon around Gaza, King of blockade, that
0:31:22 > 0:31:28has actually increased the power of Hamas in Gaza, and is raising calls
0:31:28 > 0:31:31about the human rights situation inside Gaza. This policy is simply
0:31:31 > 0:31:41not working.Hamas is 30,000 armed thugs, where they periodically
0:31:41 > 0:31:51execute people in -- Palestinians and Gazans. An AK-47 bullet back of
0:31:51 > 0:31:56the neck for anyone who tried to relieve the people of Gaza from
0:31:56 > 0:32:00this. This is what I have done.You have shot a lot of people there as
0:32:00 > 0:32:10well.I have opened up the border crossings, to enable 1000 trucks a
0:32:10 > 0:32:15day of goods, food, medicine, anything you want, unlimited
0:32:15 > 0:32:21supplies coming into Gaza, as long as they are not weapons. And in fact
0:32:21 > 0:32:25it is Israel right now, if I had to say it is one country, Israel, more
0:32:25 > 0:32:28than any other actually taking care of the population of Gaza, because
0:32:28 > 0:32:32we have no quarrel with the population. We do have a quarrel
0:32:32 > 0:32:36with those who have hijacked them and use the territory of Gaza to
0:32:36 > 0:32:40launch a war against Israel. One day I hope we will be rid of Hamas and
0:32:40 > 0:32:46they will disarm, and then we can have a glorious future.Let's look
0:32:46 > 0:32:51at the Palestinian state very vividly, you have said actually,
0:32:51 > 0:32:57what we can't have is an armed hostile anti-keeper-mac state
0:32:57 > 0:33:01sitting on our border for ever -- and the Israeli state sitting on our
0:33:01 > 0:33:05border forever. You used the term, Palestinian entity. Are you
0:33:05 > 0:33:10suggesting what Palestinians might get is, as it were, the status of a
0:33:10 > 0:33:13kind of self-governing territory inside a greater Israel.I think
0:33:13 > 0:33:17they should have all the powers to govern themselves and none of the
0:33:17 > 0:33:27powers to threaten us, which means it has to be...Following -- falling
0:33:27 > 0:33:30short of fools take, in other words. The Middle East is full of stories
0:33:30 > 0:33:34of collapsing states and so on, so that means if we withdraw our armed
0:33:34 > 0:33:38security control from an area, what happened invariably is militant
0:33:38 > 0:33:45Islam comes in, whether Daesh, Isis, Hamas, backed by Iran, and either
0:33:45 > 0:33:49one is horrible, not only for us but also for the Palestinians or the
0:33:49 > 0:33:53Lebanese. You just heard the Prime Minister of Lebanon on resigning and
0:33:53 > 0:34:00he said basically, Hezbollah took over, which means a run took over,
0:34:00 > 0:34:04and I think this is a wake-up call for everyone. It says what the
0:34:04 > 0:34:10Middle East is really experiencing -- which means Iran to cover. I
0:34:10 > 0:34:15think when Israelis and Arabs, and it is all the Arabs and the
0:34:15 > 0:34:19Israelis, agree on one thing, people should pay attention. We should stop
0:34:19 > 0:34:26this Iranian takeover, for your interest as well.I want to come to
0:34:26 > 0:34:32run directly in a moment, but if you talk to almost any British MP, they
0:34:32 > 0:34:35say two state solution, two state solution, but the way you are
0:34:35 > 0:34:38talking it sounds as if I2-mac state solution is more or less over and we
0:34:38 > 0:34:46are moving to a different one, one state solution. -- it sounds as if a
0:34:46 > 0:34:48two state solution is more or less over.I am unabashed about saying
0:34:48 > 0:34:54that I do not want this two state solution to be over but we don't
0:34:54 > 0:34:58want something to threaten our lives. What is the other state,
0:34:58 > 0:35:03Costa Rica or North Korea? Another many Iran, Luxembourg? Nobody asks
0:35:03 > 0:35:09that. When you say two states, if it is not demilitarised and doesn't
0:35:09 > 0:35:12recognise the state of Israel which the Palestinians still refuse to do,
0:35:12 > 0:35:16it merely becomes a platform for continuing the war against the one
0:35:16 > 0:35:20Jewish state, so I think you have to be more specific and say, no, what
0:35:20 > 0:35:26we want is the recognition, finally, 100 years after the Balfour
0:35:26 > 0:35:32Declaration, finally recognise the Jewish state, expletive deleted, but
0:35:32 > 0:35:37recognise it, and make sure that Palestinians do not have the weapons
0:35:37 > 0:35:40to destroy it.You have been talking about all of this with Donald Trump,
0:35:40 > 0:35:43a man with a slightly dodgy reputation in this country, but you
0:35:43 > 0:35:48have just seen him up close and personal. What do you make of him?
0:35:48 > 0:35:52Firstly I think he has leadership qualities, and I think he sees in
0:35:52 > 0:35:58the Middle East something different. There are some people who saw Iran
0:35:58 > 0:36:02as the solution for the problems in the Middle East.Lake Barack Obama,
0:36:02 > 0:36:07you mean?By the way I had a very good relationship with Barack Obama,
0:36:07 > 0:36:12and we did agree on things, and we signed our memorandum of
0:36:12 > 0:36:14understanding, 10-year security package, and I welcome and respect
0:36:14 > 0:36:19that, but I disagreed with him on Iran because, yes, I think he saw
0:36:19 > 0:36:23Iran as a solution in many ways, and Donald Trump sees Iran is the
0:36:23 > 0:36:27problem, but it is not Donald Trump this is Iran is the problem. We do
0:36:27 > 0:36:35and the Arab states do. And Hariri who just resigned does as well, and
0:36:35 > 0:36:42he's right.And between Israel and many of the Sunni states, against
0:36:42 > 0:36:46Iran. It is almost the way you speak about them as if you see them as one
0:36:46 > 0:36:49of those great empires, moving from Asia right away to the
0:36:49 > 0:36:52Mediterranean, and you have said very clearly, putting aside the
0:36:52 > 0:36:56nuclear issue, we must them doing that. We will not let them get to
0:36:56 > 0:37:04the Mediterranean, we will not let them an American Shi'ite empire
0:37:04 > 0:37:06spreading right the way to the shores of the Mediterranean. How
0:37:06 > 0:37:13will you do that?Iran will Putin calls for destruction, and something
0:37:13 > 0:37:19even in your experience, -- will put in calls. Iran openly says, we are
0:37:19 > 0:37:26out to destroy what they call us, the small states come on the way to
0:37:26 > 0:37:30the big states, the United States... You are a middle state.No offence
0:37:30 > 0:37:40taken.This is what Iran wants to do. It is seeking to colonise Syria
0:37:40 > 0:37:49for that purpose, and that is to Lebanon-ise Syria and that is what
0:37:49 > 0:37:52in Lebanon on President Hariri basically resigned over, probably
0:37:52 > 0:37:58killed his father, and could have killed him...And for so-called Isis
0:37:58 > 0:38:02and the Islamic State...As they move out, Iran moves in, but they
0:38:02 > 0:38:13want to bring in their air force, they want to bring in Shi'ite and
0:38:13 > 0:38:16divisions, submarines and military vessels, right into the
0:38:16 > 0:38:19Mediterranean right next to Israel, so we will not let that happen and
0:38:19 > 0:38:25we will resist.You would go to war to stop that happening?
0:38:25 > 0:38:29The more we are prepared to stop it the less likely it is we will have
0:38:29 > 0:38:33to resort to much greater things. There is a principle I very much at
0:38:33 > 0:38:45YouTube, nip bad things at the bud -- I very much it adhere to.But we
0:38:45 > 0:38:48have it rocket attacks, Lebanon, things moving in the Horn of Africa,
0:38:48 > 0:38:52and you can see it as a big situation. At this stage are we
0:38:52 > 0:38:55drifting or moving towards a major war in the region between Iran and
0:38:55 > 0:39:01her allies and proxies on the one side, and Israel and the Sunni
0:39:01 > 0:39:05states on the other?There is definitely a conflict, and you're
0:39:05 > 0:39:10right, and alignment in the region, but I think it is the battle between
0:39:10 > 0:39:15medievalism and modernity. Israel stands for modernity, and these
0:39:15 > 0:39:23forces have to resist the onslaught of this militant Islamism. Which
0:39:23 > 0:39:27uses rockets, terrorism, suicide bombers and so on, and the sparks of
0:39:27 > 0:39:35that firmament you see on the streets of London. It medievalism
0:39:35 > 0:39:39wins they are, you lose here, so we are really on the front line of this
0:39:39 > 0:39:42great battle for the future of the world, not really the future of the
0:39:42 > 0:39:47Middle East, but the world.And you think Donald Trump gets it and is at
0:39:47 > 0:39:51your back?I think he definitely understands that Iran is the primary
0:39:51 > 0:39:55problem. It probably accounts for 95% of the problems we experienced
0:39:55 > 0:40:02now in the Middle East, and it is a good thing that he gets it.Can I
0:40:02 > 0:40:05ask you about the condition of Jews in this country, because there are a
0:40:05 > 0:40:09lot of Jewish friends and community reader mights very worried about
0:40:09 > 0:40:10your Government and they see particularly the settlement issue
0:40:10 > 0:40:15has made it much harder to defend Israel in this country. We have
0:40:15 > 0:40:18always had anti-Semitism in Britain but it has been quiet for a long
0:40:18 > 0:40:23time, and it is back on the rise.I wouldn't blame Jews for
0:40:23 > 0:40:29anti-Semitism any more than I would blame blacks for racial hatred
0:40:29 > 0:40:34towards them or about anti-gay hatred, because of what they are...
0:40:34 > 0:40:38But distinction between Jews and policies.You know what happened,
0:40:38 > 0:40:43Theresa May gave an extraordinary speech. On the Balfour Centennial,
0:40:43 > 0:40:49and she said," you cannot go and attack and say that Britain has no
0:40:49 > 0:40:54right to exist because you impose some of the British Government
0:40:54 > 0:40:58policies. Britain has a right to exist, Israel has a right to exist.
0:40:58 > 0:41:01You may disagree with this or that policy but you would never question
0:41:01 > 0:41:05any other country's right to exist based on this or that disagreement
0:41:05 > 0:41:09with the policy. " But this is levelled against Israel and Konta
0:41:09 > 0:41:13Michael Vorm.One of the big supporters of Palestinian rights in
0:41:13 > 0:41:17this country is the Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn who has said
0:41:17 > 0:41:20previously we shouldn't allow free access for what he calls Israel's
0:41:20 > 0:41:25terminal politicians to come into this country. He might very well be
0:41:25 > 0:41:28Britain's Prime Minister before long. What would that the
0:41:28 > 0:41:30relationships? Should you not pick up the telephone and taught him?
0:41:30 > 0:41:34First of all the British people decide who they want to come and be
0:41:34 > 0:41:40Prime Minister, but I hope there will be a continuity of British
0:41:40 > 0:41:42policy with Israel because there is something people don't know. That
0:41:42 > 0:41:48cooperation has saved many lives, many Israeli lives, many many
0:41:48 > 0:41:53British lives, because we have an intense cooperation between our
0:41:53 > 0:41:57security and intelligence agencies, and it is protecting Britain and
0:41:57 > 0:42:01protecting Israel, and it is something I hope will continue in
0:42:01 > 0:42:09the future.Mr Netanyahu, thanks very much indeed for talking to us.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11Now, then...
0:42:11 > 0:42:14Murder on the Orient Express is one of Agatha Christie's finest stories,
0:42:14 > 0:42:15immortalised on screen more than once.
0:42:15 > 0:42:17A new film version, directed by Kenneth Branagh,
0:42:17 > 0:42:20who also takes the part of Poirot, has a classy cast.
0:42:20 > 0:42:23I caught up with two of its stars, Michelle Pfeiffer and Olivia Colman,
0:42:23 > 0:42:26who gave me a few clues as to why this mystery train
0:42:26 > 0:42:27has timeless appeal.
0:42:27 > 0:42:29My name is Hercule Poirot, and I am probably the greatest
0:42:29 > 0:42:31detective in the world.
0:42:31 > 0:42:32I must recommend you remain in your compartments
0:42:32 > 0:42:33with the doors locked.
0:42:33 > 0:42:35I feel like a prisoner here.
0:42:35 > 0:42:36It is for your own safety.
0:42:36 > 0:42:38This is a hugely enjoyable film.
0:42:38 > 0:42:40You have the great reveal, which is that thing on
0:42:40 > 0:42:41Kenneth Branagh's face!
0:42:41 > 0:42:47What did you think when you first saw it?
0:42:47 > 0:42:49I thought, what is that thing on Kenneth...
0:42:49 > 0:42:56No, I thought, this is extraordinary.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59And I thought, I don't know how I'm going to act with this moustache!
0:42:59 > 0:43:01He also never looked more handsome.
0:43:01 > 0:43:03It suits him, doesn't it?
0:43:03 > 0:43:05I think he's quite hot with the big tash.
0:43:05 > 0:43:11It is like this vast grey marmoset sitting on his face.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13I can't remember the exact words now,
0:43:13 > 0:43:15but Agatha Christie says it's meant to be...
0:43:15 > 0:43:16The most magnificent moustache in England.
0:43:16 > 0:43:17That's it.
0:43:17 > 0:43:18And it certainly is.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20It has to be big.
0:43:20 > 0:43:24Can I then ask you both about your characters, about Mrs Hubbard?
0:43:24 > 0:43:27She's a socialitE, she's brittle, she's on the hunt for husbands.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30Is she the person, do you think, Agatha Christie might have wanted
0:43:30 > 0:43:32to be herself?
0:43:32 > 0:43:35Oh.
0:43:35 > 0:43:38Well, some have said that she exemplifies maybe the inner
0:43:38 > 0:43:41loneliness of Agatha Christie.
0:43:41 > 0:43:44Travelling alone was very dangerous and in some ways scandalous
0:43:44 > 0:43:46for a woman, travelling alone.
0:43:46 > 0:43:51Well, hello.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53Eyes linger any longer, I'll have to charge you rent.
0:43:53 > 0:43:59I'll pay.
0:43:59 > 0:44:00And Mrs Schmidt sitting there observing silently
0:44:00 > 0:44:02the whole way through.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05You are Judi Dench's handmaiden which is quite a role to take on.
0:44:05 > 0:44:06Yes.
0:44:06 > 0:44:08Tell us a little bit about that.
0:44:08 > 0:44:11I think Kenneth Branagh said he cast you because he wanted somebody who
0:44:11 > 0:44:13could be silent, and yet you couldn't help
0:44:13 > 0:44:14observing all the time.
0:44:14 > 0:44:16He cast me because he wanted someone to be silent?
0:44:16 > 0:44:17Yes!
0:44:17 > 0:44:19It's like he never met me at all.
0:44:19 > 0:44:22Apart from bits where you speak very good German.
0:44:22 > 0:44:23Oh, thanks very much!
0:44:23 > 0:44:25Took an awfully long time to learn that.
0:44:25 > 0:44:30Not sure a German would say such nice things, but thank you.
0:44:30 > 0:44:32It was, well, heaven.
0:44:32 > 0:44:34I sat next to Judi Dench all day holding a dog.
0:44:34 > 0:44:41It was heaven.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43This is all about master-servant or mistress-servant relationships,
0:44:43 > 0:44:44which Agatha Christie was fascinated by.
0:44:44 > 0:44:45Who's really in control?
0:44:45 > 0:44:48Is it the servant all along who is somehow controlling her countess?
0:44:48 > 0:44:51I'd like to say, yes, but I don't think so.
0:44:51 > 0:44:53I think it is very much the Countess in this occasion.
0:44:53 > 0:44:56Michelle, for quite a long time - it's often been said Hollywood
0:44:56 > 0:45:00hasn't been very good at roles for women over 40.
0:45:00 > 0:45:03And I know Meryl Streep and Jane Fonda have campaigned on this.
0:45:03 > 0:45:05I wonder if it's now beginning to change?
0:45:05 > 0:45:07You know, in films, I'm not so sure.
0:45:07 > 0:45:10I feel more in television there are more and more interesting
0:45:10 > 0:45:16parts for women of all ages.
0:45:16 > 0:45:18And, in film, I'm actually not convinced so much.
0:45:18 > 0:45:22I think Meryl does all the really great parts for women over 40.
0:45:22 > 0:45:24That's a kind of rule, isn't it?
0:45:24 > 0:45:26It is a very male-dominated kind of industry
0:45:26 > 0:45:29going through a terrible crisis, the Harvey Weinstein business.
0:45:29 > 0:45:31Were you yourself, you've been a big, big actress
0:45:31 > 0:45:34there for 20 years or so, did you know about this stuff?
0:45:34 > 0:45:36Did you have any experiences yourself?
0:45:36 > 0:45:37I never worked with Harvey.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40I've had some experiences.
0:45:40 > 0:45:46I have to say, since this has all come out, there really hasn't been
0:45:46 > 0:45:49one woman I've talked to who hasn't had an experience.
0:45:49 > 0:45:53It just goes to show you how systemic the problem is.
0:45:53 > 0:45:57I'm having conversations with women I've known my whole life
0:45:57 > 0:45:59and we've never discussed this and it's coming out.
0:45:59 > 0:46:02You think this is going to change the atmosphere for younger women
0:46:02 > 0:46:04coming into the industry
0:46:04 > 0:46:06that men are going to think three or four times?
0:46:06 > 0:46:08I think all the men are thinking, yeah.
0:46:08 > 0:46:09I think...
0:46:09 > 0:46:11...Should bloody well hope so.
0:46:11 > 0:46:16There's a lot of reflection going on with men and women.
0:46:16 > 0:46:22I was thinking myself, thinking back, thinking, well,
0:46:22 > 0:46:25you know, where is that line between, oh, I got hit on and I was
0:46:25 > 0:46:27in appropriately, you know...
0:46:27 > 0:46:28Is it about power?
0:46:28 > 0:46:32Basically?
0:46:32 > 0:46:36Well, I think when you're in a position of power and
0:46:36 > 0:46:39you're in a position to intimidate someone, then it becomes...
0:46:39 > 0:46:45There are cases where there are young women in their 20s...
0:46:45 > 0:46:48It seems to be women in like, it's women in their young 20s.
0:46:48 > 0:46:50Who are younger.
0:46:50 > 0:46:52They are purposefully targeted.
0:46:52 > 0:46:55We've been talking about the queen of crime Agatha Christie.
0:46:55 > 0:46:58Let's turn to the Queen of England.
0:46:58 > 0:47:01You've been announced as the new Queen in The Crown.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03What happened when you heard about the The Crown?
0:47:03 > 0:47:06You presumably got a phone call saying you got the gig.
0:47:06 > 0:47:08I was on speaker phone in the car with my husband.
0:47:08 > 0:47:10We'd recently finished watching The Crown.
0:47:10 > 0:47:14My agent said, "Would you go and meet -
0:47:14 > 0:47:17It's a secret," and she was trying to be subtle.
0:47:17 > 0:47:19"...About a tiara," and I said, "The Crown,
0:47:19 > 0:47:22The Crown, oh, my God, yeah!"
0:47:22 > 0:47:24My husband was silently clapping in the background.
0:47:24 > 0:47:25So we were quite excited.
0:47:25 > 0:47:26I was very excited.
0:47:26 > 0:47:27I'm excited.
0:47:27 > 0:47:28Thanks.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30Thank you both very much.
0:47:30 > 0:47:31Thank you.
0:47:31 > 0:47:33Thank you.
0:47:33 > 0:47:35It's been a rotten week for the Government.
0:47:35 > 0:47:38And, generally, what happens at the end of a rotten week
0:47:38 > 0:47:40for the government is that Sir Michael Fallon appears
0:47:40 > 0:47:43on programmes like this to tell us how well Theresa May is doing.
0:47:43 > 0:47:46Now, this weekend, for reasons that I hope are obvious,
0:47:46 > 0:47:47he is unavailable.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50But I am joined by the Home Secretary Amber Rudd -
0:47:50 > 0:47:53which shows perhaps how important she has become to the Prime Minister
0:47:53 > 0:47:57and why she is being tipped for even higher things.
0:47:57 > 0:48:01Can I make a parallel. I've been around for a long time. This feels a
0:48:01 > 0:48:06little bit like John Major's Government after the back to basics
0:48:06 > 0:48:10speech when Kay after day after day there was yet another story and
0:48:10 > 0:48:14another and another. It was drip, drip, drip. It she hadded and
0:48:14 > 0:48:18exhausted that Government. The same thing's happening to you. Can I put
0:48:18 > 0:48:24it to you this is not tittle tattle, it is politically serious? ?Test
0:48:24 > 0:48:29serious. This is about cross-party change. It is the Labour Party, the
0:48:29 > 0:48:33whole of Westminster. What we're see something a wholesale change taking
0:48:33 > 0:48:38place. We've seen the abuse of power in particular. And the widespread
0:48:38 > 0:48:42cultural change that needs to take place as Wes recognise that. We will
0:48:42 > 0:48:48be recognising that. We are going to be making changes. It has to stop.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52There's been a really big focus this morning in particular on the role of
0:48:52 > 0:48:57the whip's office. You heard Anna Soubry saying they must have known
0:48:57 > 0:49:00much more. They mousse come to the Prime Minister and tell them
0:49:00 > 0:49:02everything they know and she must demand that and you as Home
0:49:02 > 0:49:09Secretary. Is that happening? Will it happen?The Prime Minister
0:49:09 > 0:49:13tomorrow will work across party with the party lead tors make sure a
0:49:13 > 0:49:17system's put in place.I'm focusing on your party and the role of
0:49:17 > 0:49:21Conservative whips in all of this. I'm just as concerned as Home
0:49:21 > 0:49:24Secretary for all women in Parliament. I'm happy to answer your
0:49:24 > 0:49:28question on the Conservative Party as well. I was a whip myself. I
0:49:28 > 0:49:32don't recognise some of those more lurid stories told about the sort of
0:49:32 > 0:49:37things whips new and did.The black book?I just don't recognise it. I
0:49:37 > 0:49:41tell it as it is. Our aim was to make sure we got Government business
0:49:41 > 0:49:45through as whip. We try to accommodate people's lives so they
0:49:45 > 0:49:48were there to vote. That sort of thing. I don't recognise the other
0:49:48 > 0:49:52stuff.I understand it is a black and white picture and more extreme
0:49:52 > 0:49:59than in reality. However, there was a black book or spreadsheet of miss
0:49:59 > 0:50:05demean ours.So you say. I spent a year in there and there wasn't one.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09I think Parliament has changed a lot. No longer have midnight
0:50:09 > 0:50:13sittings. Has become more family-friendly. But it has to do
0:50:13 > 0:50:18more.Tim Fortescue said, who was a Tory whip, it was a TV programme
0:50:18 > 0:50:24looking at the whip's office. Anyone in trouble would come to the whips.
0:50:24 > 0:50:29They'd say, I was in a jam. It might be debt. A scandal involving small
0:50:29 > 0:50:35boys. We'd do everything we can to help we'd score browny points. If he
0:50:35 > 0:50:40can get a chap out of trouble, he'll do what we ask for ever more. That
0:50:40 > 0:50:45is precisely the problem.That is disgraceful, shocking. When was
0:50:45 > 0:50:50that?That was in the 170s.That isn't the Parliament I know. The
0:50:50 > 0:50:54whip's office where I work. That was in the past. I'm not saying there
0:50:54 > 0:51:00isn't a lot of change to take place, there is. I want to work in a place
0:51:00 > 0:51:05where there is respect.You say it is in the past. Let me read you what
0:51:05 > 0:51:08Katie Perrier said. Recently part of the Government and worked in Downing
0:51:08 > 0:51:11Street a few months ago. She says this information is held by the
0:51:11 > 0:51:18whips. They use to to make sure MPs within the party know exactly what
0:51:18 > 0:51:22they've been up to and that brave your is not acceptable or used
0:51:22 > 0:51:25against him. You vote a certain way or we'll tell your wife what you've
0:51:25 > 0:51:31been up to. Information's being held for partisan reasons to get
0:51:31 > 0:51:33legislation through rather than being passed to the proper
0:51:33 > 0:51:39authorities, including the police.I just don't agree with you. I spent a
0:51:39 > 0:51:43year in the whips office under George Young. There was no black
0:51:43 > 0:51:47book or that influence going on. It was much more about getting
0:51:47 > 0:51:50Government business through. That's the whip's office. I recognise there
0:51:50 > 0:51:54is a really important change that needs to take place in Westminster.
0:51:54 > 0:51:58It is not just Westminster. It is other workplaces as well. We heard
0:51:58 > 0:52:03mish eel fiver saying what was going on in that industry. This is an
0:52:03 > 0:52:05international, cross-business change that needs to take place to support
0:52:05 > 0:52:10particularly young women in work.To be absolutely clear, are you saying
0:52:10 > 0:52:14the whips didn't know anything at all about Sir Michael Fallon in the
0:52:14 > 0:52:17past? There are suggestions they did?There is a lot of suggestion in
0:52:17 > 0:52:22the papers. I can't guess about what might have known what rumour or
0:52:22 > 0:52:27truth. I am saying how I operated as a whip in the whip's office when I
0:52:27 > 0:52:31was there.Can you at least say whatever they do know they must take
0:52:31 > 0:52:36to the Prime Minister. It must be on the table between you, the Prime
0:52:36 > 0:52:39Minister and the whips so the information's out there before it
0:52:39 > 0:52:43turns up in the newspaper? Absolutely. There should be total
0:52:43 > 0:52:47candour. If they are rumours, allegations, we need to find out
0:52:47 > 0:52:51what's going on and deal with them in a transparent way so they don't
0:52:51 > 0:52:57happen again.This has been driven all the way through by newspaper
0:52:57 > 0:53:00story, splash after splash after dirty splash. Are there more
0:53:00 > 0:53:05splashes to come?I don't know. Some of these have surprised me. We
0:53:05 > 0:53:08should make the distinction between some very serious allegations and
0:53:08 > 0:53:12some which is tittle tattle. We have to be careful about the distinctions
0:53:12 > 0:53:16here.Let's look at the Damian Green tittle tattle this morning in the
0:53:16 > 0:53:23papers today. We have a former, very senior policeman alleging something
0:53:23 > 0:53:27about the efwektively Deputy Prime Minister. Is this the proper way for
0:53:27 > 0:53:31the police to behave?That is a reasonable question. The Cabinet
0:53:31 > 0:53:35Office will look at this tomorrow along with the wider inquiry about
0:53:35 > 0:53:39Damian. We shouldn't rush to allege anything until that inquiry's has
0:53:39 > 0:53:45taken place.What about the way he's treated the woman who madal gazes
0:53:45 > 0:53:49against him. The lawyers have been called in. It seems a very heavy and
0:53:49 > 0:53:53scary response. If you are another young whom who feels they've been
0:53:53 > 0:53:57mistreated that kind of thing will put you off telling anybody.I think
0:53:57 > 0:54:01men and women who have been subject to any sort of abuse of power should
0:54:01 > 0:54:06have the confidence to come forward. I also think people who are, This is
0:54:06 > 0:54:09they've been wrongly accused should absolutely be able to come out and
0:54:09 > 0:54:13say, this is not true. Damian's made some very strong statements on that
0:54:13 > 0:54:22side.He certainly has. Let's talk about the politics of all of this.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26Is a crucial anything in Theresa May's Cabinet. Are you close now to
0:54:26 > 0:54:31a complete collapse. If he goes, it seems as if the whole centre of
0:54:31 > 0:54:35Government's imploded.Abs will thely not. It is something that will
0:54:35 > 0:54:38take place in terms of clearing out Westminster of that sort of behave
0:54:38 > 0:54:42your. Westminster, afterwards, including the Government, will be
0:54:42 > 0:54:47better for it. When we are confident that men and women can work in a
0:54:47 > 0:54:49respectful environment and people who have been on the receiving end
0:54:49 > 0:54:53of abuse of power can come forward, that will be a positive thing. I
0:54:53 > 0:54:56would like to sea, the Government's committed to delivering on its
0:54:56 > 0:55:00agenda. I know there is a lot of interest in this. It is right there
0:55:00 > 0:55:04is and we change it. We are doing other things do.He Rennes other
0:55:04 > 0:55:09things and an agenda. You've an announcement today about child
0:55:09 > 0:55:13pornography, about the treatment of much younger women than the ones we
0:55:13 > 0:55:17are talking about?I'm going to Washington this week to make sure we
0:55:17 > 0:55:22step up our fight against child sexual exploitation. We've seen the
0:55:22 > 0:55:25real growth of child sexual exploitation internationally. We
0:55:25 > 0:55:30need to work with the Americans to take action against it. There's much
0:55:30 > 0:55:35more that the internet companies can do. They do quite a lot already. But
0:55:35 > 0:55:39the growth has been exponential. We need to make sure they put their
0:55:39 > 0:55:42technological know how into addressing it. Particularly working
0:55:42 > 0:55:46with smaller platforms where children go to game online, to meet
0:55:46 > 0:55:50each other. There are peed times working there. We need to make sure
0:55:50 > 0:55:53the internet companies work with us in partnership to change this.Let
0:55:53 > 0:55:57me return, if you don't mind, to Westminster politics. Can you
0:55:57 > 0:56:03understand why there is so much anger directed against Mr Williamson
0:56:03 > 0:56:06who's taken over as Defence Secretary?He's the Prime Minister's
0:56:06 > 0:56:11choice. I'm sure he'll do a very good job.Gavin Williamson is a real
0:56:11 > 0:56:15slime ball with his own leadership team in place. Theresa May has gone
0:56:15 > 0:56:21mad. It's a real end of days stuff says the huffing tonne post quoting
0:56:21 > 0:56:25somebody else. Someone else she's so weak she's let Williamson appoint
0:56:25 > 0:56:30himself. Somebody else, straight from the school of party
0:56:30 > 0:56:37managementment. It is like House Of Cards the original version. I'm sure
0:56:37 > 0:56:43he'll go forward and be a great Defence Secretary. The idea of the
0:56:43 > 0:56:48Chief Whip appearing in a key position in the Cabinet is straight
0:56:48 > 0:56:52out of House Of Cards?The Prime Minister can appoint her own
0:56:52 > 0:56:57Cabinet.You can say Andrew, I couldn't possibly comment.I didn't
0:56:57 > 0:57:00fall into that one particularly. Gavin will be a great Defence
0:57:00 > 0:57:06Secretary, part of the team.He's the centre of the story. Can I ask
0:57:06 > 0:57:10you about Mr Garnier, who has been investigated under the Ministerial
0:57:10 > 0:57:14Code of Conduct. But the allegations against him go seven years before he
0:57:14 > 0:57:21was a minister. A lot of people watching, is the ministerial #k0eed
0:57:21 > 0:57:27of conduct endlessly retrospective, the way Amber Rudd or anyone else
0:57:27 > 0:57:32behaved when they were 17. It seems bonkers?All of these allegations
0:57:32 > 0:57:35will be properly investigated so there is no place for these
0:57:35 > 0:57:39allegations to hide so everybody can kneel confident when they come
0:57:39 > 0:57:44forward, and she should if they have something to say, it is fairly dealt
0:57:44 > 0:57:48with.Do you think we'll see another Sunday like this?I certainly hope
0:57:48 > 0:57:53not. I hope we'll see more evidence of what the Government's doing to
0:57:53 > 0:57:58deliver on its agenda. In my case, making the online world safer. In
0:57:58 > 0:58:02Jeremy Hunt's case, making the NHS better. All the things that matter
0:58:02 > 0:58:05to Government, I hope we can see more of that.
0:58:05 > 0:58:08Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme:
0:58:08 > 0:58:10On Sunday Morning Live, the sexual harassment scandal.
0:58:10 > 0:58:12Is it time to put the house in order
0:58:12 > 0:58:13or is it becoming a witch-hunt?
0:58:13 > 0:58:16James Bond star Naomi Harris tells us about a new scheme
0:58:16 > 0:58:17to help the homeless.
0:58:17 > 0:58:20And poet Benjamin Zephaniah reveals why studying tai chi in China
0:58:20 > 0:58:21has changed his attitude to life.
0:58:21 > 0:58:22Join us at 10.00am.
0:58:23 > 0:58:24That's all for this week.
0:58:24 > 0:58:25Next week, we have a special
0:58:25 > 0:58:27extended Remembrance Sunday programme.
0:58:27 > 0:58:30Among my guests four really big bosses -
0:58:30 > 0:58:32the engineering tycoon Sir James Dyson,
0:58:32 > 0:58:35the Chief of the Defence Staff, plus the Head of the National Trust
0:58:35 > 0:58:37and the Mayor of London.
0:58:37 > 0:58:41Until then, goodbye.