0:00:05 > 0:00:06Good morning.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09Imagine, bear with me, slightly strange thought,
0:00:09 > 0:00:12imagine you're Theresa May.
0:00:12 > 0:00:14Week going rather well, Brexit money sorted,
0:00:14 > 0:00:17serious negotiations about to start.
0:00:17 > 0:00:22Then, bang, nasty and offensive tweets from Donald Trump,
0:00:22 > 0:00:24meant to be your big trade ally.
0:00:24 > 0:00:29Bang, the Irish border issue rears up, threatening to derail
0:00:29 > 0:00:32the Brexit process and maybe demolish your Commons majority.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35And then, bang, again this morning your entire
0:00:35 > 0:00:38Social Mobility Commission resigns overnight because you're doing
0:00:38 > 0:00:42so little for the poor.
0:00:42 > 0:00:49Yup, it's just another ordinary Sunday morning.
0:01:01 > 0:01:05The outgoing social mobility Czar who's just left his Kremlin to come
0:01:05 > 0:01:10here today, Alan Milburn, will tell us why he quit.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Ireland's foreign minister and Deputy Prime Minister,
0:01:13 > 0:01:16Simon Coveney, will be joining us from Cork to talk about vetoing
0:01:16 > 0:01:20the Brexit talks and whether this is really all about a united
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Ireland.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24Replying for the government on a difficult morning
0:01:24 > 0:01:27is Justine Greening, the Education Secretary.
0:01:27 > 0:01:36Were Mrs May's words about burning injustices just words?
0:01:36 > 0:01:40As the Tory right gets ever more restive about how
0:01:40 > 0:01:43we're leaving the EU, I'll be talking to the bookies'
0:01:43 > 0:01:44favourite to be the next Conservative leader,
0:01:44 > 0:01:46Jacob Rees-Mogg.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49Plus one of the odder comparisons I've heard for a while.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52The actor Matt Smith on why the Duke of Edinburgh,
0:01:52 > 0:01:54who he plays in The Crown, and his old character,
0:01:54 > 0:01:58Doctor Who, aren't quite as different as you'd think.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00And it's getting to that time of year.
0:02:00 > 0:02:08Jazz king Gregory Porter will sing us out.
0:02:08 > 0:02:14# They know that Santa is on his way .Mac
0:02:14 > 0:02:17# They know that Santa is on his way
0:02:17 > 0:02:19And reviewing the papers, the former Leader of UKIP,
0:02:19 > 0:02:21friend of Donald Trump and one of the architects of
0:02:21 > 0:02:22Brexit, Nigel Farage.
0:02:22 > 0:02:24The former Labour adviser Ayesha Hazarika.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26And Kate Andrews from the Institute of Economic Affairs.
0:02:26 > 0:02:30But first the headlines with Katherine Downes.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32All four members of the board of the government's
0:02:32 > 0:02:35Social Mobility Commission have stood down in protest
0:02:35 > 0:02:38at what they say is a lack of progress towards a "fairer
0:02:38 > 0:02:39Britain".
0:02:39 > 0:02:42The former Labour Minister Alan Milburn who chairs the commission
0:02:42 > 0:02:45said he had "little hope" the current government could make
0:02:45 > 0:02:47the "necessary" progress.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50The government said it was making "good progress" on social mobility
0:02:50 > 0:02:55and focusing on disadvantaged areas.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58Donald Trump has responded to a guilty plea by his former
0:02:58 > 0:02:59national security adviser Michael Flynn, saying
0:02:59 > 0:03:03Mr Flynn's actions as a member of his transition team were lawful.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06Mr Flynn has entered a plea deal and agreed to co-operate
0:03:06 > 0:03:09with an inquiry into alleged collusion with Russia.
0:03:09 > 0:03:16The president wrote on Twitter that he had "nothing to hide".
0:03:16 > 0:03:18Leading Brexit supporters have urged the Prime Minister not to settle
0:03:18 > 0:03:21the UK's "divorce bill" unless the EU agrees
0:03:21 > 0:03:22to a series of conditions.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24The Leave Means Leave group, says Brussels must end
0:03:24 > 0:03:29the European Court of Justice's jurisdiction over the UK.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32It also wants freedom of movement to the UK for EU citizens to stop
0:03:32 > 0:03:36when Britain leaves the bloc in March 2019.
0:03:36 > 0:03:40Theresa May is to hold more meetings next week
0:03:40 > 0:03:44on the terms of the UK exit.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47Children and young people in England are to be able to access mental
0:03:47 > 0:03:49health support at school or college under government plans
0:03:49 > 0:03:51to improve services.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54The proposals include introducing a four-week waiting time
0:03:54 > 0:03:56for youngsters needing specialist support and new mental health
0:03:56 > 0:04:00support teams in schools.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02It's hoped around one in four schools in England will have this
0:04:02 > 0:04:05provision in place by 2022.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09Campaigners say the measures are welcome, but long overdue.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12Sky-watchers could catch a glimpse of a so-called "supermoon"
0:04:12 > 0:04:16when the Moon appears larger and brighter in the sky as it moves
0:04:16 > 0:04:17closer to Earth later.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20The first supermoon in 70 years was seen last month.
0:04:20 > 0:04:24Astronomers say providing the skies stay clear the most spectacular
0:04:24 > 0:04:27views of what's known as the "cold moon" will come during moonrise
0:04:27 > 0:04:32today and moonset tomorrow morning.
0:04:32 > 0:04:37That's all from me.
0:04:37 > 0:04:44Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48as to the front pages as usual, Theresa May has lost her social
0:04:48 > 0:04:53mobility czar and the entire team, including a former education
0:04:53 > 0:05:01secretary.She does this funny thing with her face, Theresa May, on these
0:05:01 > 0:05:08occasions. There she is again doing her rueful look on the front page of
0:05:08 > 0:05:16the Sunday Times. Theresa May betrays families who voted for
0:05:16 > 0:05:23Brexit is their story. In the Sunday Telegraph assents on the right of
0:05:23 > 0:05:27the Conservative Party that Theresa May has to push that much harder
0:05:27 > 0:05:32against the European Commission. Tories at war over European judges.
0:05:32 > 0:05:37Any headlines that have Tories and war and European in the headlines is
0:05:37 > 0:05:43just daily life. A scandal in the front page of the Mail on Sunday and
0:05:43 > 0:05:52it is about money. I am picking up on all the Meghan Markle stories.
0:05:52 > 0:05:56The Sunday Express says she will give the economy a £500 million
0:05:56 > 0:06:00boost because of the wedding. Debbie McGee from Strictly Come Dancing on
0:06:00 > 0:06:09the front page. Meghan Markle kicked my shin in this one. Finally,
0:06:09 > 0:06:12British racing dogs who are not wanted after they finished their
0:06:12 > 0:06:17racing careers are being sold for meat in China. An horrific story if
0:06:17 > 0:06:22true, let's hope it is not. Can I start with you and the social
0:06:22 > 0:06:27mobility story? Some people might say there is not much to see here.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31Alan Milburn is a Labour politician and he was going to the end of his
0:06:31 > 0:06:37time. Is this a real story?This is a very real and very damaging story
0:06:37 > 0:06:41for Theresa May? We all remember her words on the steps of Downing Street
0:06:41 > 0:06:46about how she wanted to put social justice at the heart of her
0:06:46 > 0:06:50premiership and any party should have social mobility at its heart at
0:06:50 > 0:06:54a basic level. You want your children to get on in life, you want
0:06:54 > 0:07:00people to have a fair crack at the whip. Britain is still very unequal
0:07:00 > 0:07:04society. Your life chapters are set by the time you are two and a half
0:07:04 > 0:07:09so deep is the inequality. What is interesting about what Alan Milburn
0:07:09 > 0:07:13has said is he says the government does not have the necessary
0:07:13 > 0:07:17bandwidth to deal with these issues because Brexit. Brexit has paralysed
0:07:17 > 0:07:25the country. If you look at social mobility, you have to look living
0:07:25 > 0:07:28standards, education, and they are things which are being ignored at
0:07:28 > 0:07:31the moment by this government and this is very damaging for Theresa
0:07:31 > 0:07:36May and her government.The bandwidth is one of these odd
0:07:36 > 0:07:40phrases, it means she can only concentrate properly on one thing at
0:07:40 > 0:07:50a time. Nigel, your thoughts.It is interesting, every government talks
0:07:50 > 0:07:53about social mobility and none of them have achieved anything in
0:07:53 > 0:07:57decades because the gap has got bigger. Theresa May is one of the
0:07:57 > 0:08:00few people in Westminster who generally believed giving Grammar
0:08:00 > 0:08:07school provision to many more people would close those gaps.Grammar
0:08:07 > 0:08:11schools do not close the gap.They certainly do. The bright kids from
0:08:11 > 0:08:17poor backgrounds... It may not solve it for everybody but it begins to
0:08:17 > 0:08:23close the gaps. What I am surprised by it she has given up on that. She
0:08:23 > 0:08:28has completely dropped the grammar schools issue.Where have we seen
0:08:28 > 0:08:36social mobility being tackled anywhere? Most of the solutions on
0:08:36 > 0:08:42social mobility has nothing to do with the European Union. They can
0:08:42 > 0:08:47build more homes and bring the cost of rented housing down. The UK has
0:08:47 > 0:08:53one of the highest cost of childcare in the OECD. Bring that down, get
0:08:53 > 0:08:56more women into work. None of this is tackled or discuss on either
0:08:56 > 0:09:05side.Give Theresa May call when you finish after this.Sure start was a
0:09:05 > 0:09:11very important measure, early intervention.It did work?Yes and
0:09:11 > 0:09:19it has been cut by this government. Nidal, we were talking about Brexit.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23There is a cartoon here and all the rest of it. Eurosceptics demand no
0:09:23 > 0:09:30more bowing to the EU. It is interesting that the government was
0:09:30 > 0:09:32elected as a pro Brexit government, yet they find themselves
0:09:32 > 0:09:37increasingly moving away from mainstream Eurosceptics in this
0:09:37 > 0:09:40country. For example agreeing to pay up to 50 billion sterling as a
0:09:40 > 0:09:45separation bill. That is something supported by only about 10% of the
0:09:45 > 0:09:53entire population.A lot of people would say it is a lot of money over
0:09:53 > 0:09:57many years even, but if we get a trade deal as a result of that, it
0:09:57 > 0:10:01might economic in the end be worth it.I do not think a tariff free
0:10:01 > 0:10:06access deal to the European market is worth 50 billion sterling,
0:10:06 > 0:10:10absolutely not. The problem is the EU is being very unreasonable. At
0:10:10 > 0:10:17every step of this they appear like bullyboys. To see Donald Tusk in
0:10:17 > 0:10:20Ireland the other day saying that they can beat up everything. There
0:10:20 > 0:10:23is also a feeling that we are probably under Theresa May at the
0:10:23 > 0:10:30end of March 2019 we will leave the European Union in name but still be
0:10:30 > 0:10:36stuck as part of the single market and goodness knows what is agreed on
0:10:36 > 0:10:41Ireland.You have been very eloquent about lavish overspending with EU
0:10:41 > 0:10:48funds. I notice Nigel Farage is going to get a £76,000...There are
0:10:48 > 0:10:5322,000 people who either received or who are reliant on EU pensions.And
0:10:53 > 0:10:59you are one of them.It happens to be me they're talking about. No
0:10:59 > 0:11:05mention of Neil Kinnock or Mandelson. It is the arbitrary way
0:11:05 > 0:11:08European Union behaves in terms of money and I would be very surprised
0:11:08 > 0:11:15if I get any of it.This is your moment on live television to say I
0:11:15 > 0:11:19will stick by my principles and say I will not accept this pension.I am
0:11:19 > 0:11:27not going to get it anyway.But if you did, you would not take it.Of
0:11:27 > 0:11:36course. Why should my family and others suffer even more?This is the
0:11:36 > 0:11:42hypocrisy we see.I have just voted to get rid of my job. I was the
0:11:42 > 0:11:50turkey that voted for Christmas.You hoovered up your expenses and your
0:11:50 > 0:11:57salary from the EU and you railed against it.They are fining me by
0:11:57 > 0:12:05Christmas, they are demanding 40,000 from me by Christmas.One last thing
0:12:05 > 0:12:10on Brexit, all of this proves that when we voted to leave the EU, it is
0:12:10 > 0:12:14like a leap of faith in the dark with a blindfold on. Nobody knew
0:12:14 > 0:12:18what was going to happen. It now seems the phrase take back control
0:12:18 > 0:12:23was take back control and give it to the Irish. We are in such a mess on
0:12:23 > 0:12:31this.We have to stand up... We have to stand up... It is failing because
0:12:31 > 0:12:37the government, not because we voted to leave...We are moving on to the
0:12:37 > 0:12:43other side of the Atlantic. You have got the New York Times.It is
0:12:43 > 0:12:46talking about Michael Flynn, the National Security adviser who
0:12:46 > 0:12:50earlier this year was fired because he had more communications with the
0:12:50 > 0:12:54Russians and he had led the vice president to believe. He is now
0:12:54 > 0:13:01cooperating with the FBI and the person running the special
0:13:01 > 0:13:06investigation into Russia.He has cut a deal?Most likely. It looks
0:13:06 > 0:13:12like his co-operation might get him of in other areas. But the
0:13:12 > 0:13:17interesting thing is he would have had more communication with the
0:13:17 > 0:13:21Donald Trump transition team than Donald Trump let on. It is an
0:13:21 > 0:13:24important story, Russia is still an important story, but it is not the
0:13:24 > 0:13:30smoking gun that they want to find. Every story like this is used to
0:13:30 > 0:13:35prove that there is pollution and we still have no evidence that is
0:13:35 > 0:13:40collusion.Stay calm on this story and followed the details.Stay calm
0:13:40 > 0:13:44and if you are frustrated with Donald Trump, going after him on
0:13:44 > 0:13:49Russia is the wrong angle. There are other things that can challenge him
0:13:49 > 0:13:58on the left and the right.As do that. He will be in February.On the
0:13:58 > 0:14:02South bank there is a huge American embassy that is being built and the
0:14:02 > 0:14:06story is he comes to London in February to open that and perhaps go
0:14:06 > 0:14:10to 10 Downing Street, not a full state visit, but a working visit.
0:14:10 > 0:14:16Can I ask you something? We have had these disgraceful tweets from him
0:14:16 > 0:14:24this week, re-tweeting Britain First.Let's get this right. There
0:14:24 > 0:14:28are 43.6 million people who followed Donald Trump. Donald Trump follows
0:14:28 > 0:14:3445 people. One of those is a right-wing American commentator. She
0:14:34 > 0:14:39re-tweeted these videos and he picked it up from her.He is
0:14:39 > 0:14:43responsible for his actions.He would not have a clue who Britain
0:14:43 > 0:14:49First R.He is not that stupid. If he does not know what he is
0:14:49 > 0:14:57re-tweeting? Is he stupid?You are dealing with different president
0:14:57 > 0:15:05here.Was that not a disgraceful thing to do? Those tweets were they
0:15:05 > 0:15:08not themselves disgraceful? They are stirring up hatred between people in
0:15:08 > 0:15:11this country, they are fake news and they should not have been
0:15:11 > 0:15:18re-tweeted.Was the story about Isis throwing people off buildings fake
0:15:18 > 0:15:24news? No, it was true. Do I think they were in good taste? Not
0:15:24 > 0:15:28particularly, no. But the point is...You are always going to defend
0:15:28 > 0:15:36him.The level of outrage from the liberal elite in this country is out
0:15:36 > 0:15:40of kilter with what happened here.I want to make one point.I have not
0:15:40 > 0:15:47finished yet. And the idea that that should lead to half the Labour Party
0:15:47 > 0:15:50saying he should not be allowed to come to our country is frankly is
0:15:50 > 0:15:56ridiculous. It is viewed by the public is being ridiculous.Donald
0:15:56 > 0:16:01Trump is a racist, he is misogynistic and Islamaphobia. He
0:16:01 > 0:16:04pedals and stirs up hatred and division. That is something you
0:16:04 > 0:16:08might agree with, but that is not what British values are in this
0:16:08 > 0:16:14country. Just remember, as Joanne Cox later dying, the scumbag who
0:16:14 > 0:16:21executed her shouted at the words Britain First. The idea that you
0:16:21 > 0:16:26defend Donald Trump, it is a bit of a joke... He is not fit to hold that
0:16:26 > 0:16:33office.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37I am ashamed that the president goes about living his life in this
0:16:37 > 0:16:40manager we have seen it for a long time, he was attacking Mexicans as
0:16:40 > 0:16:45rate this driver and murderers before he was even elected. We have
0:16:45 > 0:16:49to live in reality. I think a working visit is in order. I also
0:16:49 > 0:16:54don't think that people should be banned from coming to the UK because
0:16:54 > 0:16:57of unsavoury views that they hold, as unsavoury as they may. But I
0:16:57 > 0:17:02think we as the public have every right to protest this.You said that
0:17:02 > 0:17:06Ayesha was out of touch. When you see what's been happening in
0:17:06 > 0:17:09Charlottesville, for example, and people making fascist salutes and
0:17:09 > 0:17:13things like that, do you not think that perhaps you are getting too
0:17:13 > 0:17:20close to a dark kind of politics?Do you know something? I think I have
0:17:20 > 0:17:23done more than anybody in this country to stop the rise of the far
0:17:23 > 0:17:27right in this people. I did it by taking those people who were going
0:17:27 > 0:17:33out and voting BNP. Of course I would condemn the extremists in
0:17:33 > 0:17:36Charlottesville, but the extremists on both sides. And it's very
0:17:36 > 0:17:41important that we don't get stuck... Nigel, you've done more to start up
0:17:41 > 0:17:46division...There are people out there on the left in this country
0:17:46 > 0:17:49who use violence to pursue their means.There is bad on both sides,
0:17:49 > 0:17:56it is important to recognise that, very important. I don't think we're
0:17:56 > 0:17:58going to get calm consensus in this, I suspect. And therefore we're going
0:17:58 > 0:18:02to go to a completely different story, which is in the express,
0:18:02 > 0:18:07another really important story for British people today, which is new
0:18:07 > 0:18:11money in schools for children with special needs, something which is a
0:18:11 > 0:18:16genuine crisis in this country?It is, and hopefully we can find a
0:18:16 > 0:18:19little more consensus on this. They have managed to persuade the
0:18:19 > 0:18:22government to put £300 million towards people who are suffering
0:18:22 > 0:18:27from mental illness. Obviously, a cause to as it is an number
0:18:27 > 0:18:31uplifting story. I am a little bit upset that one has to go to the
0:18:31 > 0:18:36Royals in order to make the case for this thing I think there needs to be
0:18:36 > 0:18:39a sweeping look at health care reform. But obviously, wonderful for
0:18:39 > 0:18:41the children who will benefit.This is one of those stories where we
0:18:41 > 0:18:46will be talking later onto just in greening, so we will get even more
0:18:46 > 0:18:54facts as they come. Thank you very much indeed all of you.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56Now, as we've been hearing, Alan Milburn, former
0:18:56 > 0:18:58Labour Cabinet Minister and, until this morning, Chairman
0:18:58 > 0:19:00of the Government's Social Mobility Commission has resigned,
0:19:00 > 0:19:02taking all three of his fellow commissioners with him.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04A little earlier I spoke to Mr Milburn and began
0:19:04 > 0:19:06by asking him why he'd quit.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09For the last ten years or so, in various social mobility roles,
0:19:09 > 0:19:11I've served a Labour Prime Minister, a coalition Prime Minister,
0:19:11 > 0:19:12and now a Conservative one.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15I've done so because I care deeply about the issue,
0:19:15 > 0:19:17and I believe that it matters profoundly to the country.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20I've reached the conclusion, sadly, that with the current government,
0:19:20 > 0:19:22there is little if any hope of progress being made
0:19:22 > 0:19:24towards the fairer Britain that the Prime Minister
0:19:24 > 0:19:25has talked about.
0:19:25 > 0:19:26The government, probably for understandable reasons,
0:19:26 > 0:19:30is focused on Brexit and seems to lack the bandwidth to be able
0:19:30 > 0:19:32to translate the rhetoric of healing social division and provoking social
0:19:32 > 0:19:34justice, into reality.
0:19:34 > 0:19:37So, I'm afraid, I've reached the conclusion that there's only
0:19:37 > 0:19:40so long that you can go on pushing water uphill.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43So, these are areas of desperate deprivation around the country
0:19:43 > 0:19:48where people are stuck, and angry.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51Theresa May has only had 18 months as prime minister.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54She came in saying that she would correct burning injustices -
0:19:54 > 0:19:56are you saying that she is simply unable to do that?
0:19:56 > 0:19:59No, look, the Prime Minister I've got no doubt has a personal
0:19:59 > 0:20:00commitment to social justice.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03She has championed quite unfashionable causes in her time -
0:20:03 > 0:20:06modern slavery, for example.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08But what is lacking here is meaningful political action
0:20:08 > 0:20:12to translate very good words into deeds.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15In the end, what counts in politics is not what you talk
0:20:15 > 0:20:18about, it's what you do.
0:20:18 > 0:20:23And I'm afraid the divisions in Britain are becoming wider,
0:20:23 > 0:20:25they're becoming wider economically, socially and geographically.
0:20:25 > 0:20:27So, to be specific, you had ideas, you had proposals,
0:20:27 > 0:20:29places to spend money, and you couldn't get any
0:20:29 > 0:20:31traction in government, no-one was listening to you?
0:20:31 > 0:20:32Well, it's not that no-one was listening.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35Justine Greening, who will be on your programme later today,
0:20:35 > 0:20:38for example, is a champion for the cause, and I know what it
0:20:38 > 0:20:40wanted to secure my reappointment as chair of the commission.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43She failed in doing so, and I've decided I'm not
0:20:43 > 0:20:46going to reapply for the job, and frankly, neither are the other
0:20:46 > 0:20:47three commissioners.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49So, the issue here is not about the words.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51It's easy to talk the language of social justice and
0:20:51 > 0:20:54healing social division - what counts is whether or not that
0:20:54 > 0:20:55is being translated into practice.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58And look, the Chancellor in his budget just a week or so ago
0:20:58 > 0:21:01confirmed that we're going to have 20 years of real
0:21:01 > 0:21:02earnings being frozen.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05That's quite unprecedented.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08We're not making the progress that we should to address these deep
0:21:08 > 0:21:10divides in the labour market, the housing market or indeed
0:21:10 > 0:21:12in our education system.
0:21:12 > 0:21:14Some people will say, no surprise here, here
0:21:14 > 0:21:17is a former Labour minister, never a fan of the Tories,
0:21:17 > 0:21:18working under a Tory prime minister.
0:21:18 > 0:21:20He's not been reappointed, and he's going and he's
0:21:20 > 0:21:24kicking her as he goes out the door.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27Yes, of course, people will say that sort of thing.
0:21:27 > 0:21:28But frankly, it's a bit pathetic.
0:21:28 > 0:21:33I've worked for Labour, coalition, Conservative prime ministers.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36The commission is cross-party, it's nonpartisan, it's
0:21:36 > 0:21:39entirely independent.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42We've tried to change the terms of the political
0:21:42 > 0:21:44debate in the country, and I think we have.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47What is needed, however, is really clear leadership
0:21:47 > 0:21:50to translate perfectly good words into actions that will
0:21:50 > 0:21:52make a difference.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54And the Prime Minister is not providing that leadership?
0:21:54 > 0:21:55At the moment, not.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58Can I ask you about Jeremy Corbyn, another leader?
0:21:58 > 0:22:00Because here is somebody who has come up with much stronger proposals
0:22:00 > 0:22:03in some of these areas than the Blair years offered us.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06He has got very strong proposals on spending money on wages,
0:22:06 > 0:22:07on social mobility, on education, on welfare.
0:22:07 > 0:22:11Isn't he the answer?
0:22:11 > 0:22:13I don't think he is the answer, personally.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15I think at the moment, our politics are deeply polarised.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18I think they're polarised between on the one hand,
0:22:18 > 0:22:20the vision of a more nationalist Britain, with Brexit taking place,
0:22:20 > 0:22:28and on the other hand, you've got a vision of a rather
0:22:28 > 0:22:31statist Britain under Mr Corbyn.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34You sound a little bit like a centrist dad at this point -
0:22:34 > 0:22:38are you about to launch the centrist dad's party?
0:22:38 > 0:22:40Absolutely not.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44Can I turn to one other area around this, which is the effects of not
0:22:44 > 0:22:47doing enough for these people, not doing enough for the areas
0:22:47 > 0:22:49of social deprivation?
0:22:49 > 0:22:52You've said there is a lot of anger in the country -
0:22:52 > 0:22:54what is ignoring this issue, continuing to ignore
0:22:54 > 0:22:56this issue, going to do to our politics generally?
0:22:56 > 0:23:01I think it's been deeply corrosive of our cohesion as a nation,
0:23:01 > 0:23:05that we've got this growing sense of becoming an us and them society.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08Just last week, the commission produced a report highlighting
0:23:08 > 0:23:12the 65 parts of the country that have got the worst social mobility
0:23:12 > 0:23:15prospects for decent jobs, good schooling, getting
0:23:15 > 0:23:17on the housing ladder.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20Of those 65 areas, only five voted to remain in the European Union
0:23:20 > 0:23:22in the referendum last year.
0:23:22 > 0:23:28So, there is a burning sense of social resentment and political
0:23:28 > 0:23:31alienation in the country.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33The social divides, unfortunately, are now being paralleled
0:23:33 > 0:23:35by a political polarisation in the country.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38That isn't good for our sense of being a United Kingdom rather
0:23:38 > 0:23:40than an ever more divided one.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42And for the time being, those people who have been cut out
0:23:42 > 0:23:46of the fairer society, have been pushed to one side,
0:23:46 > 0:23:47are still cut out, still pushed out?
0:23:47 > 0:23:49Yes.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51And it's very easy if you are anti-Brexit...
0:23:51 > 0:23:54I think it's not a great idea to go ahead with Brexit,
0:23:54 > 0:23:57I voted to remain.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00It's very easy to rail against the people in those
0:24:00 > 0:24:02areas who voted for it.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06What we've got to do is understand the reasons that people voted
0:24:06 > 0:24:08as they did for this.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11It's fine to be tough on Brexit, but you've got to be tough
0:24:11 > 0:24:13on the causes of Brexit as well.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16And that means that you've got to deal with these issues of these
0:24:16 > 0:24:18areas that are being left behind economically and socially.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21And I'm afraid that isn't happening with great enough ambition, great
0:24:21 > 0:24:24enough scale and great enough pace.
0:24:24 > 0:24:28Alan Milburn, thanks for coming in and talking to us.
0:24:28 > 0:24:29And so to the weather.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32A raw, raw start to December.
0:24:32 > 0:24:34A sprinkling of sparkly stuff next?
0:24:34 > 0:24:35Let's hope so.
0:24:35 > 0:24:43Over to Darren Bett.
0:24:43 > 0:24:45Over to Darren Bett.
0:24:55 > 0:24:59And drizzle is getting pushed southwards. A little bit of sunshine
0:24:59 > 0:25:04coming through. Always a bit of struggle, though, in the south-east.
0:25:04 > 0:25:08At least it is not as cold here as it was yesterday. Further north,
0:25:08 > 0:25:14despite the sunshine, those numbers a lower than yesterday. Northern
0:25:14 > 0:25:18Ireland staying a bit dull and damp. The rain and drizzle pushes back
0:25:18 > 0:25:23into Scotland and western parts of England and Wales overnight. Some
0:25:23 > 0:25:25clearer skies ahead of that, meaning it could turn rather chilly tonight.
0:25:25 > 0:25:31At least, a better chance of seeing that supermoon. There will be some
0:25:31 > 0:25:36mist and fog around overnight, which will lift early tomorrow morning
0:25:36 > 0:25:39just some weak winter sunshine coming through tomorrow, with milder
0:25:39 > 0:25:44air. However, around the middle part of the week, the winds get really
0:25:44 > 0:25:50noisy. Gales are unlikely and there will be some heavy rain and some
0:25:50 > 0:25:54localised flooding possible. The wind direction changes and it gets
0:25:54 > 0:25:58very much colder very quickly by the end of the week checkup some wintry
0:25:58 > 0:26:05showers are possible, Andrew, our air is coming at us from the Arctic.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08Parade!
0:26:08 > 0:26:10Right, picking up on quite a few of those issues,
0:26:10 > 0:26:12our next guest is the Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-Mogg.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15He joins us from Somerset.
0:26:15 > 0:26:15Welcome to the
0:26:15 > 0:26:19Welcome to the programme. Can I ask you about this letter that you have
0:26:19 > 0:26:24signed, going to the Prime Minister? One thing it says is that not a
0:26:24 > 0:26:28penny must be paid to the EU unless we have a roaming trade agreement
0:26:28 > 0:26:38with no tariffs agreed by March 2018 - is that a misprint?It's very
0:26:38 > 0:26:44important to yes, it is March 2000 and 19th, not 2018, obviously. But
0:26:44 > 0:26:48it is very important that we do not hand over a great deal of money
0:26:48 > 0:26:53unless we have an agreement. The risk is that we pay the money from
0:26:53 > 0:26:59the day we leave, and that reduces our negotiating cloud to get the
0:26:59 > 0:27:06trade deal finalised if it has not been done before March 2019, and
0:27:06 > 0:27:11that seems to be an obvious point. And you want the deal to me that we
0:27:11 > 0:27:15can start to do free-trade deals with the rest of the world, and we
0:27:15 > 0:27:20have no European Court of Justice jurisdiction whatsoever during those
0:27:20 > 0:27:25two years?Well, the question is whether we remain in the European
0:27:25 > 0:27:30Union for an extra period, to have the transition, or whether we've
0:27:30 > 0:27:34left in March 2019. If we remain under the European Court of Justice,
0:27:34 > 0:27:38and we are making large obligatory payments to the EU budget, there is
0:27:38 > 0:27:45no difference on the 30th of March to the 29th of March. So it is a
0:27:45 > 0:27:52question we have actually left in Cannock or are de facto still within
0:27:52 > 0:27:55the European Union, but without any of the current protections that we
0:27:55 > 0:28:00have.Can I be clear, under your plan, as it were, because there is
0:28:00 > 0:28:05also no freedom of movement after March 2019, in effect there is no
0:28:05 > 0:28:09transitional period at all, it has happened. No easy Jay, no money, we
0:28:09 > 0:28:14are out and that's it?You describe it beautifully, we will actually
0:28:14 > 0:28:22have left in March 2019. Just a moment... The Prime Minister used to
0:28:22 > 0:28:24refer very carefully to lower reimplementation period. And that
0:28:24 > 0:28:28meant that we had left in 2019 but we were implementing the
0:28:28 > 0:28:33consequences of leaving. Now, everyone seems to be talking about
0:28:33 > 0:28:35transition, which means transitioning from being within the
0:28:35 > 0:28:38European Union to out of the European Union, and that delays our
0:28:38 > 0:28:42departure for two years. It was interesting listening to Mr Milburn
0:28:42 > 0:28:47earlier pointing out that the poorest areas of the country voted
0:28:47 > 0:28:50to leave. We need to deliver the benefits of living to the poorest in
0:28:50 > 0:28:54our nation, because otherwise they will feel deeply let down, and that
0:28:54 > 0:28:57includes dealing with freedom of movement and it includes getting
0:28:57 > 0:29:00free-trade deals so that we can lower the cost of food, clothing and
0:29:00 > 0:29:06footwear.Let me ask you about the Irish border, which is another big
0:29:06 > 0:29:08issue which has arisen recently. We have had lots of comments about it,
0:29:08 > 0:29:13including from Peter Robinson of the DUP, who is essential is suggesting
0:29:13 > 0:29:19that the Irish government are using this to try to achieve a united
0:29:19 > 0:29:22Ireland by stealth - do you agree with him?Well, Irish politics are
0:29:22 > 0:29:26quite complicated at the moment, as you know, because there is a vote of
0:29:26 > 0:29:31no confidence in the Deputy Prime Minister in Ireland, and I think the
0:29:31 > 0:29:35Irish border has become a matter of Irish immediate political concern in
0:29:35 > 0:29:40the run-up to a potential general election, and the strength of Sinn
0:29:40 > 0:29:43Fein and the Prime Minister of Ireland's concern about that.
0:29:43 > 0:29:49Whether I would go as far as to say it is an effort to unify the
0:29:49 > 0:29:51Republic and Northern Ireland by stealth, I don't know. But I would
0:29:51 > 0:29:54say very clearly, speaking from Somerset, that Northern Ireland is
0:29:54 > 0:30:00as much a part of the United Kingdom as Somerset is, as Conservatives and
0:30:00 > 0:30:05unionists take that very seriously. It is at the core of what we believe
0:30:05 > 0:30:10about our nation and I support the DUP thoroughly, as do many
0:30:10 > 0:30:14Conservatives if not most, with regard to any attempts to take
0:30:14 > 0:30:17Northern Ireland out of the United Kingdom.Isn't the truth therefore
0:30:17 > 0:30:20that if we leave without an agreement, there has to be a hard
0:30:20 > 0:30:23border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, because
0:30:23 > 0:30:32that is the EU border as well as the Irish Republic border?
0:30:32 > 0:30:38No, that is not the case. The head of HMRC said there is no need to
0:30:38 > 0:30:43have a border. If the EU want a border, that would be a matter for
0:30:43 > 0:30:48them, but they do not have to do it, and it is a matter of political
0:30:48 > 0:30:52choice. You have to say to the Irish government, do you want to make that
0:30:52 > 0:30:55political choice to have a border? The British Government do not want
0:30:55 > 0:31:00that.You spent time with Steve Bannon, and economic nationalists,
0:31:00 > 0:31:07and many people think he is a white supremacist. What were you doing
0:31:07 > 0:31:11talking to him?I talk to any number of people whose political views I do
0:31:11 > 0:31:16not share or fully endorse. I met the previous American ambassador at
0:31:16 > 0:31:22a reception at his own embassy and he was a left-wing Barack Obama
0:31:22 > 0:31:25supporter. Inevitably one meets other politicians and that does not
0:31:25 > 0:31:30mean I agree or endorse everything they say. But Steve Bannon was the
0:31:30 > 0:31:32chief of staff to President Trump and is a senior figure within the
0:31:32 > 0:31:39Republican Party. I think a convivial is misleading. He was
0:31:39 > 0:31:44interesting to meet and he is very well informed.Would you like to see
0:31:44 > 0:31:51President Trump come here in February?Mr Trump is the leader of
0:31:51 > 0:31:56our closest and most important ally. We have many interests in common in
0:31:56 > 0:32:00all sorts of areas, not least of defence. It is overwhelmingly in the
0:32:00 > 0:32:05British interest to have a friendly relationship with the leader of the
0:32:05 > 0:32:08free world. That is true who ever the president happens to be and it
0:32:08 > 0:32:13is the duty of the British Prime Minister to that that happens. Tony
0:32:13 > 0:32:17Blair was very good at that as Prime Minister and he got on with a
0:32:17 > 0:32:23right-wing American president.You are a civilised man, when you saw
0:32:23 > 0:32:29those re-tweets of that racist, fascist group, Britain First, by the
0:32:29 > 0:32:33president of the United States, did you not think he is a man crossing a
0:32:33 > 0:32:39really important boundary in civilised discourse?Here I say it,
0:32:39 > 0:32:43although I am on Twitter, I think it is a fundamentally trivial medium
0:32:43 > 0:32:52and it is not worth spending so much time fussing about it. He inevitably
0:32:52 > 0:32:57or people inevitably spend too much time on such an unimportant
0:32:57 > 0:32:58time on such an unimportant medium.
0:32:58 > 0:33:01"The key to the UK's future lies in Dublin,"
0:33:01 > 0:33:04the words of EU Council President Donald Tusk this week.
0:33:04 > 0:33:06So might the Irish border problem derail the Brexit process?
0:33:06 > 0:33:08Let's ask the Tanaiste, Ireland's Deputy Prime Minister
0:33:08 > 0:33:09and Foreign Minister, Simon Coveney.
0:33:09 > 0:33:13He joins me now from Cork.
0:33:13 > 0:33:19Can I ask you first, Donald Tusk has given new in effect a veto over
0:33:19 > 0:33:25these Brexit talks. Will you use it? Are you prepared to use it?We
0:33:25 > 0:33:30certainly do not want to be vetoing anything. The Irish government like
0:33:30 > 0:33:34the British Government wants to move the Brexit process onto phase two.
0:33:34 > 0:33:39We want to provide the kind of certainty that many businesses are
0:33:39 > 0:33:43calling for in Britain, Ireland and in the European Union. There is no
0:33:43 > 0:33:49desire in Ireland to delay this process. But at the same time we
0:33:49 > 0:33:53have a responsibility as a government to represent the
0:33:53 > 0:33:58interests of the island of Ireland, north and south. Next year will be
0:33:58 > 0:34:02the 20th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement, which is the basis
0:34:02 > 0:34:05for the peace process and relations between Britain and Ireland on the
0:34:05 > 0:34:13island. We believe that as an island, an island is vulnerable and
0:34:13 > 0:34:17exposed to a potential bad outcome from Brexit. That is why we are
0:34:17 > 0:34:23looking for more progress than we have in terms of understanding how
0:34:23 > 0:34:29the border issue is in particular the North-South co-operation that
0:34:29 > 0:34:34has created a hugely positive thing. Instead of the border dividing
0:34:34 > 0:34:39people like it has in the past, it brings people together now. Farmers
0:34:39 > 0:34:46trade across it. Goods and services and people move freely.Can I does
0:34:46 > 0:34:52jumping? A lot of people in the North now believe that having an
0:34:52 > 0:34:55open border and therefore Northern Ireland having to be much closer to
0:34:55 > 0:34:59the single market and the customs union and creating an effect and all
0:34:59 > 0:35:05Ireland economy with a watery border between that and the rest of the UK
0:35:05 > 0:35:09is the first stage to a united Ireland and you have a political
0:35:09 > 0:35:14agenda. You want to achieve Irish unity by economics and that is what
0:35:14 > 0:35:23this is all about.That is simply not true. Some of your previous
0:35:23 > 0:35:27speakers' description of what is happening in Ireland is also not
0:35:27 > 0:35:36true. We did have difficult political week and the deputy
0:35:36 > 0:35:42minister did resign. There is no Sinn Fein influence on the
0:35:42 > 0:35:46government here in terms of what we are trying to do. This is simply the
0:35:46 > 0:35:50Irish government sticking to a consistent position that we have had
0:35:50 > 0:35:53for months. Perhaps the only thing that has changed is the
0:35:53 > 0:35:59understanding that others have, that Ireland is very determined to
0:35:59 > 0:36:03actually hold its position because we feel we have an obligation to
0:36:03 > 0:36:08ensure that the border issues are a significant factor in terms of the
0:36:08 > 0:36:12considerations around Brexit right now. We cannot allow some kind of
0:36:12 > 0:36:18collateral damage or unintended consequence Brexit to have the
0:36:18 > 0:36:25re-creation of a border in Ireland. I have been careful to avoid the
0:36:25 > 0:36:29Green versus Orange debate in the context of the debate here. We are
0:36:29 > 0:36:34trying to protect the status quo through Brexit. It is an important
0:36:34 > 0:36:40status quo on the island that keeps people peacefully engaged.You as
0:36:40 > 0:36:44the Deputy Prime Minister will be engaged in the summit coming up
0:36:44 > 0:36:48quite soon on the Brexit negotiations. You may have seen this
0:36:48 > 0:36:53morning that Theresa May has been given a lot of red lines to take
0:36:53 > 0:36:55with her and they require things like a free-trade deal without
0:36:55 > 0:37:02tariffs to be agreed by March 2019, and that being the basis of any
0:37:02 > 0:37:06money being passed over, the UK having the freedom to make and
0:37:06 > 0:37:11implement trade deals during the transition period. The European
0:37:11 > 0:37:14Court must not have any jurisdiction whatsoever from March 2019, and so
0:37:14 > 0:37:22forth. Is that possible? If Theresa May arrives with that kind of list,
0:37:22 > 0:37:27what will happen to her?I am not going to comment on the demand that
0:37:27 > 0:37:31are being made of the British Prime Minister by her own party. That is
0:37:31 > 0:37:36not a matter for me to comment on. I would like to comment on a published
0:37:36 > 0:37:42report this week from the House of Commons on Brexit. Actually in that
0:37:42 > 0:37:46report they agree with the Irish government's position, that there is
0:37:46 > 0:37:50a need for more clarity in the context of the border. They do not
0:37:50 > 0:37:55see how it is compatible that the United Kingdom as a whole, including
0:37:55 > 0:37:58Northern Ireland, leaving the customs union and the single market
0:37:58 > 0:38:05actually works with the ambition to prevent a border. The House of
0:38:05 > 0:38:09Commons committee is actually making the same argument that we are making
0:38:09 > 0:38:11as a government which hopefully reassures people that the Irish
0:38:11 > 0:38:16government is not being unreasonable here. We are simply asking questions
0:38:16 > 0:38:20that need more credible answers before we can allow this process to
0:38:20 > 0:38:24move onto phase two.What does the British Government have to do to
0:38:24 > 0:38:29satisfy you? If this were drafting forms of words, they talk about the
0:38:29 > 0:38:34technological solution that could do it, too allowed the negotiations to
0:38:34 > 0:38:39move to the next phase, or do you want absolute clarity about how the
0:38:39 > 0:38:45government wants to resolve this? Just to reassure people, we are not
0:38:45 > 0:38:52looking far. We have never asked for the full detail of the border
0:38:52 > 0:38:56solution in phase one. We are looking for the parameters within
0:38:56 > 0:39:00which we can be more confident that the solution can be found within
0:39:00 > 0:39:05phase two. That is not an unreasonable ask. What we are saying
0:39:05 > 0:39:10is our preference, and our preference has always been because
0:39:10 > 0:39:14it helps to deal with the politics of unionism, we would like to see a
0:39:14 > 0:39:17solution that solves the border issues that involves all of the
0:39:17 > 0:39:22United Kingdom acting as one. We also have to say if that is not
0:39:22 > 0:39:27possible, of course we need to recognise, both governments need to
0:39:27 > 0:39:31recognise, that Northern Ireland has unique challenges and all parties in
0:39:31 > 0:39:36Northern Ireland need to be listened to, not just one. We need to
0:39:36 > 0:39:39maintain and support peace and harmony on the island which so many
0:39:39 > 0:39:45people have worked so hard to create over the last two decades.Thank you
0:39:45 > 0:39:46very much indeed for joining us.
0:39:46 > 0:39:48Thank you very much indeed for joining us.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50Matt Smith made his name as the eleventh Timelord
0:39:50 > 0:39:53in Dr Who and is now starring as the Duke of Edinburgh
0:39:53 > 0:39:54in The Crown.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57The Netflix series has been highly praised but the next season
0:39:57 > 0:39:59is already making headlines for its portrayal of
0:39:59 > 0:40:00the Queen's marriage.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02The drama has been criticised for speculating on what troubles
0:40:02 > 0:40:05might have arisen between the royal couple in the 1950s and 60s.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08When I caught up with Matt, I asked him about that criticism
0:40:08 > 0:40:10and whether some of the conjecture about Prince Philip
0:40:10 > 0:40:15was needlessly intrusive.
0:40:15 > 0:40:22The world has changed, society in Britain has changed.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24You married a wild spirit.
0:40:24 > 0:40:28Trying to tame them is no use.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32This restlessness of yours, it has to be a thing of the past.
0:40:32 > 0:40:37The monarchy is too fragile, you keep telling yourself.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40One more scandal, one more national embarrassment
0:40:40 > 0:40:45and it would all be over.
0:40:45 > 0:40:47Well, no, I don't think it is gratuitous, I don't
0:40:47 > 0:40:49think it is salacious.
0:40:49 > 0:40:53As a dramatist I think it is your responsibility
0:40:53 > 0:40:56and I think Peter has done it very well to shine a light on the ugly
0:40:56 > 0:40:59truth of characters and I think it is good to put the characters
0:40:59 > 0:41:02in uncomfortable situations.
0:41:02 > 0:41:05And we are ultimately telling a story.
0:41:05 > 0:41:08It is a fictionalised version of true events that we have kind
0:41:08 > 0:41:12of surmised I suppose.
0:41:12 > 0:41:16But one of the virtues of the show for me is that I have learnt quite
0:41:16 > 0:41:18a lot about British history, British politics.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21I learned a lot about the emotional make-up of the family that I thought
0:41:21 > 0:41:22I knew but I didn't.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25Bullied children are scarred for life and scarred children
0:41:25 > 0:41:27make destroyed adults.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30You and I had an agreement, a deal that ensured there would be
0:41:30 > 0:41:34some level of equality between us in the marriage.
0:41:34 > 0:41:38We have just had the 70th anniversary and if you look at them
0:41:38 > 0:41:42in those photos I think they appear to make each other laugh still
0:41:42 > 0:41:46and they look like there is a degree of good humour amongst them.
0:41:46 > 0:41:49So it is important that, yes, we touched upon a very difficult
0:41:49 > 0:41:53time in their marriage but history tells us that they have endured
0:41:53 > 0:41:54and they have got through it.
0:41:54 > 0:41:56It turned out well.
0:41:56 > 0:41:58Let me ask you a little bit more about the Duke himself.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01Very interesting the way you played him because he is slightly scary,
0:42:01 > 0:42:02you are slightly scary.
0:42:02 > 0:42:04There is a brusqeness and unpredictability there.
0:42:04 > 0:42:05He is absolutely alpha male.
0:42:05 > 0:42:07Yes.
0:42:07 > 0:42:10And yet there is always a vulnerability in the face.
0:42:10 > 0:42:11How do you do that?
0:42:11 > 0:42:13Well, thank you very much.
0:42:13 > 0:42:16I take that as a compliment.
0:42:16 > 0:42:19I don't know, I think there are a lot of preconceptions about him.
0:42:19 > 0:42:20You have met him, I haven't.
0:42:20 > 0:42:23I think there are a lot of preconceptions about Philip.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26I love his alpha maleness, that was something I was
0:42:26 > 0:42:28compelled by and drawn to.
0:42:28 > 0:42:31I read the first season and I thought actually, yeah,
0:42:31 > 0:42:33I wouldn't want to kneel to my wife.
0:42:33 > 0:42:36I wouldn't want to do that.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39And here is a man who was at the forefront of the Navy,
0:42:39 > 0:42:40he had great sporting prowess.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42And everything is taken away.
0:42:42 > 0:42:43Taken away.
0:42:43 > 0:42:44Including his name.
0:42:44 > 0:42:46Including his name.
0:42:46 > 0:42:48So he is an angry man in many ways.
0:42:48 > 0:42:50Well, he's conflicted.
0:42:50 > 0:42:53He is conflicted between - this is how I read it -
0:42:53 > 0:42:57a sense of duty to his wife, a sense of duty to himself as a man
0:42:57 > 0:43:00and a sense of duty to his country and his job and his responsibility
0:43:00 > 0:43:02as a member of the Royal family.
0:43:02 > 0:43:05You put all those things together and you have got a very
0:43:05 > 0:43:08interesting character.
0:43:08 > 0:43:18One of the things that has been thrown against him which this series
0:43:19 > 0:43:22rather refutes in a way, that he was in some
0:43:22 > 0:43:23sense a cold father, particularly to Prince Charles.
0:43:23 > 0:43:26Actually the relationship is much more complicated and at times much
0:43:26 > 0:43:28more affectionate perhaps in the caricature.
0:43:28 > 0:43:29I think so.
0:43:29 > 0:43:32From the research I did he was actually quite a warm father.
0:43:32 > 0:43:34As this season goes on, we have seen episode nine,
0:43:34 > 0:43:36and there is an episode about Gordonstoun and he tried
0:43:36 > 0:43:39to parent his child in a certain way and made mistakes.
0:43:39 > 0:43:42I think he probably made a mistake sending him to Gordonstoun.
0:43:42 > 0:43:44He probably should have sent him to Eton.
0:43:44 > 0:43:47Where it made Philip, I think it broke Charles.
0:43:47 > 0:43:52It is my decision that Charles goes to Gordonstoun.
0:43:52 > 0:43:55Not now.
0:43:55 > 0:43:58And that would be fine for all our other children,
0:43:58 > 0:44:01but Charles is the future of the Crown and in the name
0:44:01 > 0:44:05of the Crown and as his mother I have decided to take him out
0:44:05 > 0:44:11of Gordonstoun and bring him home to Eton, to Windsor, where he belongs.
0:44:11 > 0:44:13We can't always fall back on the Crown.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15Yes, I can and I will.
0:44:15 > 0:44:19Then you would do well to remember the promises you made to me
0:44:19 > 0:44:22and the consequence those might have on breaking the Crown.
0:44:22 > 0:44:25He is very at the forefront of the things.
0:44:25 > 0:44:27Certainly in the 1950s and 60s.
0:44:27 > 0:44:29It is very interesting looking at what he is saying
0:44:29 > 0:44:31about British commerce, productivity, new
0:44:31 > 0:44:34inventions, technology.
0:44:34 > 0:44:37Yes, he was a great moderniser, he was very interested in scientific
0:44:37 > 0:44:42modification and that turned out to be a great passion of his.
0:44:42 > 0:44:47Actually I think he has done a great service to the Royal family
0:44:47 > 0:44:52because he was trying to bring it out of the traditions that it was
0:44:52 > 0:44:57rooted in and kind of stuck in.
0:44:57 > 0:45:00Again I saw a couple of weeks ago in the paper he is 96
0:45:00 > 0:45:04and he is on the carriage and he has got his mates in it with him
0:45:04 > 0:45:06on their anniversary and he is still catching life.
0:45:06 > 0:45:10A really bizarre comparison to a lot of people for a Duke
0:45:10 > 0:45:13of Edinburgh and Doctor Who.
0:45:13 > 0:45:16Both really interested in technology, going around
0:45:16 > 0:45:18the world with a woman at their side.
0:45:18 > 0:45:22You are the first person to have raised that with me
0:45:22 > 0:45:25but it is something that I have thought and raised a lot
0:45:25 > 0:45:28to other people and I am convinced essentially
0:45:28 > 0:45:31they are both aliens really.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34What I mean by that is they are aliens in their own world.
0:45:34 > 0:45:37So Philip was the outsider of the family, he came in,
0:45:37 > 0:45:41he wasn't really accepted, he wasn't liked, he did
0:45:41 > 0:45:43things his own way.
0:45:43 > 0:45:47He has sort of done what he wants, where he wants, how he wants.
0:45:47 > 0:45:50He didn't really ask permission and his wife is the Queen.
0:45:50 > 0:45:54There is something about that that I found very charming.
0:45:54 > 0:45:56Similarly, Doctor Who is the same.
0:45:56 > 0:45:58And they both wore great clobber.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01The clothes in this are amazing.
0:46:01 > 0:46:03I wonder what the Duke of Edinburgh would make of your jumper.
0:46:03 > 0:46:05He would tut at my jumper I think.
0:46:05 > 0:46:07He would raise his eyebrows.
0:46:07 > 0:46:08I don't think he would be impressed.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12Thank you very much.
0:46:12 > 0:46:15And you can see the new series of The Crown on Netflix
0:46:15 > 0:46:28from the 8th of December.
0:46:28 > 0:46:36Justine Greening, the Education Secretary, joins me.
0:46:36 > 0:46:41How big a blow has it been to lose the entire social mobility
0:46:41 > 0:46:44commission overnight?Alan Milburn and I both care deeply about social
0:46:44 > 0:46:51equality.He said that and he said that you wanted to keep him on - is
0:46:51 > 0:46:55that true?I'm not going to get into the discussions that we have had
0:46:55 > 0:46:59inside government said he has done a job, but is time had come to an end
0:46:59 > 0:47:02and I think it is about getting some fresh blood into the commission.
0:47:02 > 0:47:07Hold on - Gillian Shephard, a former Conservative Education Secretary...
0:47:07 > 0:47:13We were already doing a recruitment or says, actually, for a new
0:47:13 > 0:47:15commissioners. What I do not agree with Alan about is his
0:47:15 > 0:47:19characterisation about the government. Actually what we're
0:47:19 > 0:47:25doing is a transformational series of policies across government on
0:47:25 > 0:47:29equality...Sorry, the four people that you have put into place to
0:47:29 > 0:47:31oversee that say nothing is happening, you are talking the talk
0:47:31 > 0:47:34but you are not walking the walk - surely people are going to believe
0:47:34 > 0:47:38them?Well, I absolutely don't agree with them. When you look at what
0:47:38 > 0:47:43we're doing in my own area, we have set up opportunity areas inside and
0:47:43 > 0:47:48outside of schools in communities to improve educational results. If you
0:47:48 > 0:47:54look at school standards overall, they're continuing to rise. 1.9
0:47:54 > 0:47:56billion more children in great primary and secondary schools who
0:47:56 > 0:48:00would not have been before. Going beyond that which the technical
0:48:00 > 0:48:04education reforms that we're bringing forward, and today
0:48:04 > 0:48:09announcements about mental health to remove some of the barriers which
0:48:09 > 0:48:12hold people back.But as a politician, don't you look at this
0:48:12 > 0:48:18country and at those areas of extreme deprivation and think
0:48:18 > 0:48:23something really bad is going wrong here? The Joseph Rowntree foundation
0:48:23 > 0:48:27tomorrow are going to say that in terms of poverty, for pensioners and
0:48:27 > 0:48:29for children, things have got worse in a way which has not happened for
0:48:29 > 0:48:3920 years. There is a slow but real crisis in this country?I think
0:48:39 > 0:48:41there is a real problem, Britain is not a country where we have equality
0:48:41 > 0:48:45of opportunity. Where you grow up affects your future far too much,
0:48:45 > 0:48:48your circumstances affect your future far too much. This is a
0:48:48 > 0:48:52generational challenge. But actually, when you look at the
0:48:52 > 0:48:55results of what we've achieved... What are we seeing happening? We are
0:48:55 > 0:48:59seeing standards in our schools rise. Critically, we are seeing the
0:48:59 > 0:49:04attainment gap in schools narrowing. This is the gap in results between
0:49:04 > 0:49:10disadvantage children and their better off Piers. We have got
0:49:10 > 0:49:14refunds in education which will mean for the half of our young people who
0:49:14 > 0:49:17do not go to university, they will get every bit as world-class an
0:49:17 > 0:49:22education offered to them post-16. We are mobilising British business
0:49:22 > 0:49:24to make sure that they're providing the opportunities for young people
0:49:24 > 0:49:28on the doorstep. And of course, my attitude on all of this is that...
0:49:28 > 0:49:31You certainly talked the talk, it seems that out there it is not
0:49:31 > 0:49:35working?I'm saying that we are delivering up, actually. I'm saying
0:49:35 > 0:49:40we're making sure we're doing it in the places where it needs to happen
0:49:40 > 0:49:42and it is most important.I promise I will come onto schools in a
0:49:42 > 0:49:47moment. But first I want to ask you about the other big story of the
0:49:47 > 0:49:55day, which is these new red lines on Brexit. The Defence Secretary Dale
0:49:55 > 0:50:00to be agreed before March 2019, before any money whatsoever is paid
0:50:00 > 0:50:02over, no jurisdiction from the European Court of Justice during a
0:50:02 > 0:50:05transitional period, free movement to end in March 2019 - to some
0:50:05 > 0:50:09people this looks like a very tough series of new demands just before an
0:50:09 > 0:50:14absolutely critical summit to do you think this is helpful to the Prime
0:50:14 > 0:50:16Minister?I think everybody needs to get behind the Prime Minister, she
0:50:16 > 0:50:20has got an immensely challenging job going to the EU and negotiating the
0:50:20 > 0:50:22terms by which we will leave the European Union. It's very important
0:50:22 > 0:50:29that we speak with one voice. But I think the Cabinet has set our
0:50:29 > 0:50:33negotiating standards with the Prime Minister and she will go and try and
0:50:33 > 0:50:38get the best possible deal. I think there is an understandable debate in
0:50:38 > 0:50:43our country about how to go about getting the best deal. This is a
0:50:43 > 0:50:46historic moment for Britain, as we leave the European Union. And we
0:50:46 > 0:50:50should expect that debate to continue. It is an incredibly
0:50:50 > 0:50:54complicated negotiation. But the Prime Minister will go to Brussels
0:50:54 > 0:50:59with a clear negotiating mandate. We need to make sure she has some
0:50:59 > 0:51:03flexibility around it as well.Sub not try and box her into much?Well,
0:51:03 > 0:51:08we are leaving the EU, and that means the destination is clear - we
0:51:08 > 0:51:13will be outside of the European Union. Outside the customs union,
0:51:13 > 0:51:15outside the single market, outside the jurisdiction of the ECJ.That
0:51:15 > 0:51:20goes for Northern Ireland as well? Because the Irish border issue is a
0:51:20 > 0:51:25very, very important one. Is it the case that we have to have a deal
0:51:25 > 0:51:28with the EU to ensure that there is no hard border between Northern
0:51:28 > 0:51:33Ireland and the republic?This is a really important area. We have been
0:51:33 > 0:51:35very clear idea indeed it was interesting to listen to Simon
0:51:35 > 0:51:40Coveney, the Irish foreign minister. I don't think there is actually any
0:51:40 > 0:51:42difference between what the government of Ireland and the
0:51:42 > 0:51:47government of the United Kingdom want. So, that is a good place to be
0:51:47 > 0:51:52in. What we now need to do is to set about how we can make sure that we
0:51:52 > 0:51:55broadly keep, as he said, the status quo in terms of what people and
0:51:55 > 0:52:00businesses experience everyday. But I think there is a real will to make
0:52:00 > 0:52:05sure that we work through that.I just want to nail this bit down. The
0:52:05 > 0:52:08government's own white paper in Northern Ireland makes it absolutely
0:52:08 > 0:52:12clear that if we don't get the deal with the EU, there will have to be a
0:52:12 > 0:52:17hard border - which would be disastrous. In terms of the Irish
0:52:17 > 0:52:20border, no deal is a very bad outcome.We want to reach a deal, of
0:52:20 > 0:52:25course, so does the Irish government. I think in the whole of
0:52:25 > 0:52:29the EU negotiation, nothing will quite be agreed until everything is
0:52:29 > 0:52:32finally tied down. The Irish border is an incredibly important element
0:52:32 > 0:52:37of this. But even when we have got that resolves, there will be further
0:52:37 > 0:52:41areas where we reach very tricky questions of how we manage to make
0:52:41 > 0:52:44sure we make things work when we are leaving the EU, when we are outside.
0:52:44 > 0:52:48And so I think we should expect a continued series of questions to
0:52:48 > 0:52:53arise, but that's the whole point. We need to go through a negotiation,
0:52:53 > 0:52:57find settlements to these areas, and then hopefully make sure we ever
0:52:57 > 0:53:01meant the decision people took in June last year.Let's turn to your
0:53:01 > 0:53:05mental health announcement - £300 million, is that new money?It is,
0:53:05 > 0:53:08and that's important. When we go back to some of the issues that
0:53:08 > 0:53:13we've just been talking about with social mobility, we know that some
0:53:13 > 0:53:16of the various young people face are often when they have mental health
0:53:16 > 0:53:21challenges.So, this is completely new money? We talked often about
0:53:21 > 0:53:26structures in abstract terms - if I am a parent with a child at school
0:53:26 > 0:53:29who has mental health issues, or I am a child at school who has mental
0:53:29 > 0:53:34health issues, what will I notice changing?First of all, it is fair
0:53:34 > 0:53:37to say there is a huge amount of work which schools already do, but
0:53:37 > 0:53:40what you will see is more structure in those relationships, and more
0:53:40 > 0:53:46provision. First of all, a senior designated lead in every school on
0:53:46 > 0:53:49mental health, so young people really knowing where they can go to
0:53:49 > 0:53:55to get help. And that lead person in that school getting more support
0:53:55 > 0:54:00from mental health support teams... More clarity, really?More support
0:54:00 > 0:54:04that they can draw down on when they want to take preventative action to
0:54:04 > 0:54:07help young people earlier. And of course more training in schools as
0:54:07 > 0:54:11part of that for those people playing the lead role.Do you accept
0:54:11 > 0:54:16there is a real problem in this country for special educational
0:54:16 > 0:54:20needs children and there is almost a 60% rise in parents taking their
0:54:20 > 0:54:24children out of school and schooling them at home, and at the same time
0:54:24 > 0:54:27more and more of those parents are taking their local authority to
0:54:27 > 0:54:31court to get what they require from the school. This does not sound like
0:54:31 > 0:54:35a system that's working?Well, we've actually changed the system,
0:54:35 > 0:54:40Andrew... Before, there was a very narrow assessment of a child's needs
0:54:40 > 0:54:44in relation to whether they were special educational needs. We have
0:54:44 > 0:54:48now broadened it out, so you look at their care needs but also their
0:54:48 > 0:54:52health care needs as well. Three quarters of parents, and indeed
0:54:52 > 0:54:55young people affected by our changes, say that they think it is
0:54:55 > 0:54:58much, much better. There is variability in delivery of that
0:54:58 > 0:55:04across the country, and that's why last week we announced a further £45
0:55:04 > 0:55:07million for local authorities. But overall we are moving in the right
0:55:07 > 0:55:11direction, and the final point of this really is that they extend now
0:55:11 > 0:55:15up to the age of 25. Before, there was provision for young people but
0:55:15 > 0:55:20it finish at 18. We've now extended that into adulthood.Moving onto
0:55:20 > 0:55:24another big story. Is it OK to watch pawn at work?Well... There are
0:55:24 > 0:55:30laws. I think most people would say it wasn't acceptable.Was not
0:55:30 > 0:55:35acceptable... Do you fear that there is a police vendetta going on
0:55:35 > 0:55:39against one of your colleagues, which is more about getting this
0:55:39 > 0:55:44person, rogue police officers who have left work and are going for a
0:55:44 > 0:55:47senior politician because there is a personal vendetta?There are two
0:55:47 > 0:55:51parts of this. One is the Cabinet Office review into the behaviour of
0:55:51 > 0:55:59Damian Green. The second is any steps taken into what would seem to
0:55:59 > 0:56:04be a breach of police professionalism regarding privacy.
0:56:04 > 0:56:09So I think there's two parts, neither of them are things which I
0:56:09 > 0:56:12should step into. But I think is important that we have high
0:56:12 > 0:56:15standards in public life.Speaking of high standards in public life,
0:56:15 > 0:56:19would to see President Trump come here in February?Well, I don't
0:56:19 > 0:56:26think tweets over the past week have helped to make any such visit a
0:56:26 > 0:56:30positive one. I think many people... You would be offended by them?Well,
0:56:30 > 0:56:40I think he was wrong to make those tweets and I think the Britain First
0:56:40 > 0:56:43group is beyond the pale.Justine Greening, thank you very much for
0:56:43 > 0:56:45talking to us.
0:56:45 > 0:56:50Coming up here later: the Sunday Politics with Sarah Smith.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53She'll be joined by the former Conservative leader Michael Howard
0:56:53 > 0:56:54and Labour's International Trade Spokesman Barry Gardiner,
0:56:54 > 0:56:56expanding on his party's position on Brexit.
0:56:56 > 0:56:58That's 11 o'clock here on BBC One.
0:56:58 > 0:56:59That's just about all for this week.
0:56:59 > 0:57:02I'll be back next Sunday, but we leave you with
0:57:02 > 0:57:04the Grammy-winning jazz sensation Gregory Porter, and this from his
0:57:04 > 0:57:06new album Nat King Cole & Me.
0:57:06 > 0:57:07It's The Christmas Song.
0:57:07 > 0:57:09Goodbye.
0:57:12 > 0:57:17# Chestnuts roasting on an open fire
0:57:17 > 0:57:23# Jack Frost nipping at your nose
0:57:23 > 0:57:33# Yuletide carols being sung by a choir
0:57:35 > 0:57:43# And folks dressed up like Eskimos
0:57:43 > 0:57:50# Everybody knows a turkey and some mistletoe
0:57:50 > 0:58:00# Help to make the season bright
0:58:01 > 0:58:07# Tiny tots, with their eyes all aglow
0:58:07 > 0:58:15# Will find it hard to sleep tonight
0:58:15 > 0:58:25# They know that Santa's on his way
0:58:28 > 0:58:33# He's bringing lots of toys and goodies on his sleigh
0:58:33 > 0:58:42# And every mother's child is gonna spy
0:58:42 > 0:58:52# To see if reindeer really know how to fly
0:58:54 > 0:58:58# And so now I'm offering this simple phrase
0:58:58 > 0:59:07# To kids from one to ninety-two
0:59:07 > 0:59:17# Although it's been said many times, many ways
0:59:18 > 0:59:28# Merry Christmas to you
0:59:31 > 0:59:39# Merry Christmas to you