0:00:03 > 0:00:07So, Theresa May's best week, I guess, since she became
0:00:07 > 0:00:10Prime Minister, getting that first Brexit agreement.
0:00:10 > 0:00:16But this leaves open the biggest question of all -
0:00:16 > 0:00:19what kind of relationship are we going to have with the EU?
0:00:19 > 0:00:22What kind of country are we going to be?
0:00:22 > 0:00:26At last, the Cabinet are going to settle down to discuss it.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29About time, because, as with Labour, right now, it's clear as mud.
0:00:47 > 0:00:52David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, and Sir Keir Starmer,
0:00:52 > 0:00:54his Labour opposite number, are both here, promising straight
0:00:54 > 0:00:58answers to straight questions.
0:01:02 > 0:01:09Ian Blackford, the SNP's Leader at Westminster,
0:01:09 > 0:01:13His call this morning for Labour to join his party in a pledge to stay
0:01:13 > 0:01:16inside the single market.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18And I've been talking to the Hollywood screenwriter
0:01:18 > 0:01:21and West Wing creator Aaron Sorkin, on his first film as a director,
0:01:21 > 0:01:23Molly's Game, with its star Jessica Chastain.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26And reviewing the news, Gina Miller, the anti-Brexit campaigner,
0:01:26 > 0:01:29the broadcaster Iain Dale - he's pro-Brexit - and observing them
0:01:29 > 0:01:33both, Anushka Asthana, political editor of the Guardian.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36But first, the news with Tina Daheley.
0:01:36 > 0:01:37Good morning.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40The Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, is due to meet
0:01:40 > 0:01:43the Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani, this
0:01:43 > 0:01:46morning on the second day of his visit to the country.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48He'll continue to press for the release of Nazanin
0:01:48 > 0:01:49Zaghari-Ratcliffe - the British-Iranian aid
0:01:49 > 0:01:51worker who's been held prisoner in the country
0:01:51 > 0:01:54since April, 2016.
0:01:54 > 0:01:59She denies charges of trying to overthrow the Iranian government.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02But she faces the possibility of a further court appearance today,
0:02:02 > 0:02:04after Mr Johnson appeared last month to contradict her claim
0:02:04 > 0:02:07she was on holiday in Iran at the time of her arrest.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10More than 20 Arab League countries, including close allies
0:02:10 > 0:02:14of the United States, have urged President Trump
0:02:14 > 0:02:20to reverse his decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22After three days of violence and protests in the Gaza Strip
0:02:22 > 0:02:25and West Bank, they say the move is a dangerous violation
0:02:25 > 0:02:27of international law.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30The Arab League will now ask the UN Security Council to condemn the US
0:02:30 > 0:02:32President's declaration.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35The equalities watchdog is to conduct its own review
0:02:35 > 0:02:40into the Grenfell Tower fire.
0:02:40 > 0:02:4371 people died in the blaze, in west London, in June.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45The Equality and Human Rights Commission is expected to consider
0:02:45 > 0:02:48whether the Government and the local council failed in their
0:02:48 > 0:02:50duty to protect life.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53It will publish its conclusions in April, before the full findings
0:02:53 > 0:02:56of the official inquiry are known.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59Students in England are being encouraged to study
0:02:59 > 0:03:07for undergraduate degrees in two years, rather than three.
0:03:07 > 0:03:09The Universities Minister, Jo Johnson, says that
0:03:09 > 0:03:12students taking shorter courses will save thousands
0:03:12 > 0:03:15of pounds in tuition fees and living expenses,
0:03:15 > 0:03:17even though universities would be able to charge nearly £2,000 more
0:03:17 > 0:03:20per year than the current maximum of just over £9,000.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23A spell of heavy snow is forecast over parts of Wales,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26the Midlands and parts of Northern and Eastern England.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30The Met Office has issued an amber weather warning for up to 10cm
0:03:30 > 0:03:34of snow at low levels, with up to 20cm on higher ground.
0:03:34 > 0:03:43There are fears that some rural areas could become cut off.
0:03:43 > 0:03:44Wrap up warm.
0:03:44 > 0:03:45That's all from me.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47The next news on BBC One is at 1pm.
0:03:47 > 0:03:48Back to you, Andrew.
0:03:48 > 0:03:49Thank you, Tina.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51Now to the papers.
0:03:51 > 0:03:56The most important political story I think on the front of the Sunday
0:03:56 > 0:04:00Telegraph, Cabinet Brexit truce threatens to unravel, basically
0:04:00 > 0:04:07about the Irish agreement, a picture of Theresa May putting a shoe on top
0:04:07 > 0:04:12of the Christmas tree. Sunday Times, a near naked bloke who had been
0:04:12 > 0:04:17swimming in the Serpentine. The Observer back to Brexit, EU gets
0:04:17 > 0:04:22tough over trade deal, saying other non-EU countries will try to
0:04:22 > 0:04:27persuade the EU not to give us a good deal, no names. People in the
0:04:27 > 0:04:33snow. What else? The Mail on Sunday, shouting match between Philip
0:04:33 > 0:04:38Hammond and the new Defence Secretary in the House of Commons,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41Downing Street, and Theresa May apparently had to separate them.
0:04:41 > 0:04:47Just what the country wants to hear! Sunday Express, gold plated trade
0:04:47 > 0:04:53deal, it demands. You very often do not get serious stories on the front
0:04:53 > 0:04:59of the red tops, but this is a real story about the working conditions
0:04:59 > 0:05:06of people working for Amazon. Shall we start with the front page of the
0:05:06 > 0:05:11Sunday Telegraph, Anushka, an interesting story?Theresa May at
0:05:11 > 0:05:15least ended the week in a good place, partly because of the deal
0:05:15 > 0:05:20appearing to be all things to all people. According to this, Downing
0:05:20 > 0:05:27Street have told senior Eurosceptic ministers, suggesting Michael Gove
0:05:27 > 0:05:31and Boris Johnson perhaps involved, not to worry about the words full
0:05:31 > 0:05:36alignment we were talking about last week. It does not mean anything in
0:05:36 > 0:05:41EU law and it is completely meaningless, apparently, according
0:05:41 > 0:05:46to some of the aids, it was just done to please the Irish government.
0:05:46 > 0:05:51Dublin looked at the words and thought, great, a clear agreement
0:05:51 > 0:05:54from the British Government.This is part of the problem. It is very
0:05:54 > 0:05:59clear the words could be read in different ways. The question is, how
0:05:59 > 0:06:03will they be read in the next stage? The interesting thing is, they
0:06:03 > 0:06:09started off with regulatory convergence, then regulatory
0:06:09 > 0:06:16alignment, then alignment.Full alignment.That means more like the
0:06:16 > 0:06:21European economy rather than the Japanese economy. Our economy
0:06:21 > 0:06:25converges more with European style economies than the Japanese. That is
0:06:25 > 0:06:32meant to give comfort to Brexiteers, hard Brexiteers.Do you think it is
0:06:32 > 0:06:40possible people Breen proved these words -- people are being briefed,
0:06:40 > 0:06:45these words do not mean anything?A lot has changed this week.
0:06:45 > 0:06:50Certainly, Theresa May's position has changed. A lot of us thought we
0:06:50 > 0:06:54could for circumstances where the Government could fall over this.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58Within days, she got the DUP and Irish government and the EU on side,
0:06:58 > 0:07:02with a little bit of help from George Younger, it has to be said,
0:07:02 > 0:07:05and that was partly because EU government claim that were putting
0:07:05 > 0:07:15pressure on the Government to get this done -- help from Mr Juncker.
0:07:15 > 0:07:21This is an interesting... Dan Hodges has gone from a Labour commentator
0:07:21 > 0:07:26to slightly Conservative commentator.He will be on the phone
0:07:26 > 0:07:31right now!This has been Theresa May's best week, he says, we have
0:07:31 > 0:07:35seen the Prime Minister we thought we would get. She has been a
0:07:35 > 0:07:39conciliator this week, a diplomat. She has kicked some of these things
0:07:39 > 0:07:44into the long grass but that is what happens in the EU, you agree on what
0:07:44 > 0:07:48you can.Let us talk more about the Prime Minister. A lot of praise
0:07:48 > 0:07:51about how she has soaked up punishment, kept going, two hours
0:07:51 > 0:07:57sleep before Brussels during the breakfast deal, she has not given
0:07:57 > 0:08:00up, where other people, perhaps more tough looking politicians, they
0:08:00 > 0:08:06might well have folded.The toys in the 1980s, we bulls wobble but they
0:08:06 > 0:08:12do not fall down. You can knock her down, but she comes back. I think
0:08:12 > 0:08:18she has now recovered her mojo a bit. She needed to. You have not
0:08:18 > 0:08:23seen any of the hard Brexiteers, Owen Patersons, Iain Duncan Smith's,
0:08:23 > 0:08:27they are not that happy, but they have not denounced this, Anna Soubry
0:08:27 > 0:08:32Nicky Morgan on the other side is saying, this is great. She has kind
0:08:32 > 0:08:37of united a very divided party.They wobble but they do not fall down! I
0:08:37 > 0:08:42like that. The front page of the Observer, you are a lawyer, what do
0:08:42 > 0:08:48you make of the argument about the full alignment?I have to say, I
0:08:48 > 0:08:57agree with Iain.Excellent.The full alignment, you can take it, if it
0:08:57 > 0:09:05means falling into line, going on to the Irish saying Fintan O'Toole,
0:09:05 > 0:09:09article saying we have basically agreed we have to stay in the single
0:09:09 > 0:09:14market and Customs union, come what may, by the back door. If that is
0:09:14 > 0:09:18the case, nobody is going to be happy. But I have to say that this
0:09:18 > 0:09:22is only the start. It was a fudge to get over the line because we needed
0:09:22 > 0:09:26to to get to the real detail. Phase two, that is when we will find out
0:09:26 > 0:09:32what is going to be agreed.The Observer is quite gloomy about phase
0:09:32 > 0:09:42two?
0:09:43 > 0:09:45What interesting about this story on the front page, we expected
0:09:45 > 0:09:47resistance from the EU member states, it is the non-EU member
0:09:47 > 0:09:50saying, you cannot give the UK a special deal in a third country
0:09:50 > 0:09:53status because we will not put up with that. The EU and non-EU member
0:09:53 > 0:09:56saying the UK cannot have a special deal. The end of the column on page
0:09:56 > 0:10:00one, Lord Coe saying, there might not be enough time for an
0:10:00 > 0:10:04off-the-shelf Canada deal. The detail will be in a very tight
0:10:04 > 0:10:11timeline.Can we talk more about the Fintan O'Toole common in the Irish
0:10:11 > 0:10:17Times? -- column. The clearest view from Dublin saying the Irish
0:10:17 > 0:10:22government has saved Britain from a hard Brexit, that is effectively his
0:10:22 > 0:10:25argument.It is, the last line of the article is really interesting,
0:10:25 > 0:10:34he says, if the deal is the dream of a clean Brexit is off the table...
0:10:34 > 0:10:36Northern Ireland must align with Southern island who are part of the
0:10:36 > 0:10:43EU, all of the EU rules and regulations -- southern Ireland. The
0:10:43 > 0:10:51UK is in alignment with the EU, therefore...135 common agreements
0:10:51 > 0:10:57underpinned by EU law. If you have to align with all of them, if you
0:10:57 > 0:11:00don't, then that presumably means the break-up of the union, that
0:11:00 > 0:11:04seems to be the two choices the article is pointing to.The key
0:11:04 > 0:11:09thing is you have all four sides, Irish government, EU, Britain,
0:11:09 > 0:11:13Northern Ireland, they all want the same outcome, a frictionless border.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17You would hope in the end reasonable people would be able to get to that
0:11:17 > 0:11:22outcome.How worried are people in the Conservative Party?It leaves
0:11:22 > 0:11:25you in a situation where you are slightly more likely to get a softer
0:11:25 > 0:11:33Brexit because the soft Irish border will be replicated in Dover- Calais
0:11:33 > 0:11:39or you are more likely to get WTA rules. One MP was saying there are a
0:11:39 > 0:11:43lot of Conservative MPs who are quite moderate on Europe and they
0:11:43 > 0:11:47are behind the PM because they want the bespoke deal. In the end, if it
0:11:47 > 0:11:54comes to a choice between WTO and staying in the European Free Trade
0:11:54 > 0:11:58Association, a lot of Conservative MPs would choose the European Free
0:11:58 > 0:12:04Trade Association.Dan Hodges argues that makes it less likely we would
0:12:04 > 0:12:09crash out.Another big political story I mentioned in the papers
0:12:09 > 0:12:12review, the extraordinary bust up between Philip Hammond and Williams,
0:12:12 > 0:12:17does it really matter?It does because politics is about
0:12:17 > 0:12:22interpersonal relationships and we saw that when Margaret Thatcher met
0:12:22 > 0:12:30Gorbachev. Here you have two very senior government ministers at each
0:12:30 > 0:12:35other's threads, Philip Hammond essentially his people allegedly
0:12:35 > 0:12:42briefly against the new Defence Secretary, calling him, stupid boy,.
0:12:42 > 0:12:46I would not be happy with that. They apparently confronted each other in
0:12:46 > 0:12:50the voting lobby with the Prime Minister a few feet away and her PPS
0:12:50 > 0:12:58said to them, it was not fisticuffs, a verbal fight.Air turns blue.They
0:12:58 > 0:13:01were hauled into the Prime Minister's office and she gave them
0:13:01 > 0:13:05a dressing down and quite right. Interesting week for Gavin
0:13:05 > 0:13:08Williamson. He gave an interview saying all terrorists have to be
0:13:08 > 0:13:12killed and should not be allowed back into the country, cosying up to
0:13:12 > 0:13:17the Daily Mail, and you wonder if if it is the first part of a leadership
0:13:17 > 0:13:24bid. He has enemies and fans. The Chancellor, I'm afraid, again, he
0:13:24 > 0:13:29has not covered himself in political glory here.Another big story this
0:13:29 > 0:13:35week, Anushka, the two year degree proposal from Jo Johnson.- and
0:13:35 > 0:13:39grab. Students can forget the lovely three years having fun. They are
0:13:39 > 0:13:44trying to ramp up the number of people doing fast tracked two year
0:13:44 > 0:13:47degrees. The Russell group have not offered them so far because they do
0:13:47 > 0:13:51not get enough money. They are trying to find ways to make it much
0:13:51 > 0:13:57broader.Hardly anyone has picked up on this idea since the election, in
0:13:57 > 0:14:02the Conservative manifesto, 0.2% of students have gone for it, either
0:14:02 > 0:14:05because they are lazy or because more likely the universities are not
0:14:05 > 0:14:09offering the degrees because it is expensive.That is what it appears
0:14:09 > 0:14:13to be, universities are not putting them out there because there is a
0:14:13 > 0:14:17limit on how much they could charge. The Government are saying it is not
0:14:17 > 0:14:20good enough, people are paying a lot, they should be able to do it in
0:14:20 > 0:14:25two years.Nearly out of time, Boris Johnson in Tehran, just a
0:14:25 > 0:14:29possibility later today we will see Boris Johnson and this poor woman
0:14:29 > 0:14:34stuck there for all of this time, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, on the
0:14:34 > 0:14:38forecourt of Tehran airport coming home.I wish that was going to be
0:14:38 > 0:14:43the case. Such a tragic story. This trip was diarist a couple of years
0:14:43 > 0:14:49ago, this visit today. It is good it has brought it to the floor and he
0:14:49 > 0:14:53can talk about it on humanitarian grounds. It is heartbreaking.He is
0:14:53 > 0:14:58working jolly hard on it now.He should have apologised, come forward
0:14:58 > 0:15:02first when he made the blunder. But he is now working hard. Her husband
0:15:02 > 0:15:09seems to have faith in him.We need to hope she is back home. One of the
0:15:09 > 0:15:13story, Iain, the Palestine Jerusalem story, we will hear Aaron Sorkin on
0:15:13 > 0:15:21that later, this is a really dangerous moment.It is unfortunate
0:15:21 > 0:15:27the Palestinian president is now refusing to meet Vice President Mike
0:15:27 > 0:15:31Pence. It would have been an ideal opportunity for him to explain in
0:15:31 > 0:15:35words of one syllable four letters why the Prime Minister have made the
0:15:35 > 0:15:42wrong decision. Donald Trump has been skilful Forder -- for domestic
0:15:42 > 0:15:49politics. He says, I am different, I fulfil promises. Domestically, it
0:15:49 > 0:15:53has worked for him. In terms of the impact on the area, we don't know,
0:15:53 > 0:15:59he has thrown up the cards in the air, we will see the consequences.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02In a small number of syllables and limited words, you have covered a
0:16:02 > 0:16:10great deal of subjects for us. Thank you very much.
0:16:10 > 0:16:11And so, to the weather.
0:16:11 > 0:16:13Proper winter in the north, you lucky people.
0:16:13 > 0:16:15Wet and bracingly cold down here.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17And apparently, more snow on the way this morning.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19With more, here's Stav Danaos in the weather studio.
0:16:22 > 0:16:27It's been very severe, the weather this morning across parts of Wales
0:16:27 > 0:16:34and into Central parts of England as well. VB prepared amber warning
0:16:34 > 0:16:39remains in force. Best stay home, and it looks like there will be
0:16:39 > 0:16:43significant price risk. Let me show you the snow radar, you can see
0:16:43 > 0:16:53where the heavy snow has been. Sennybridge has seen totals around
0:16:53 > 0:16:5923 centimetres, in fact the latest recording is 28 centimetres. It will
0:16:59 > 0:17:04keep falling across central and northern parts of Wales, in towards
0:17:04 > 0:17:07the Midlands, gradually easing down through the afternoon. Gale force
0:17:07 > 0:17:13winds in the south and south-west up to 80 mph so this could cause
0:17:13 > 0:17:16disruption as well. Some very wild weather across parts of England and
0:17:16 > 0:17:23Wales. Meanwhile in Scotland and the far north of England, sunny and very
0:17:23 > 0:17:29cold. This gradually clearing away eastwards in the overnight period,
0:17:29 > 0:17:34turning cold again with the significant risk of ice in many
0:17:34 > 0:17:38places, temperatures as low as minus macro 12 Celsius across northern
0:17:38 > 0:17:39Scotland.
0:17:44 > 0:17:49Much too early to ask silly questions about a white Christmas.
0:17:49 > 0:17:50Thanks.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52So, we've been talking at length this morning
0:17:52 > 0:17:53about that UK-EU divorce deal.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56The Irish border was, of course, the big problem -
0:17:56 > 0:17:59a point that hasn't been lost on the Scottish National Party.
0:17:59 > 0:18:00Its Westminster leader Ian Blackford joins me now.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03You have issued an appeal this morning to the Labour Party, what
0:18:03 > 0:18:07have you asked them to do?We have now reached the end of phase one and
0:18:07 > 0:18:11it's about the kind of deal that can be put together which will protect
0:18:11 > 0:18:16the economic interests of the people of the United Kingdom, about jobs
0:18:16 > 0:18:22and living standards.So what do you want them to do?We want them and
0:18:22 > 0:18:26others to get behind us. If you look at the agreement has come forward
0:18:26 > 0:18:32about full alignment in order to deal with the Irish question, the
0:18:32 > 0:18:36simple answer is to stay within the single market and Customs union.The
0:18:36 > 0:18:41Liberal Democrats want the same thing but the problem is during the
0:18:41 > 0:18:44referendum campaign people were told that if they were voting to leave
0:18:44 > 0:18:49the EU, they were leaving the single market, again and again.Many would
0:18:49 > 0:18:59say during the campaign even on the Leave site that it would not be
0:18:59 > 0:19:02necessary. It is about the threat coming clearer to jobs and
0:19:02 > 0:19:07prosperity.Let's look at what people were saying during the
0:19:07 > 0:19:09referendum campaign itself.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12The British public would be voting, if we leave, to leave the EU
0:19:12 > 0:19:13and leave the single market.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15Should we come out of the single market?
0:19:15 > 0:19:18I think that that almost certainly would be the case, yes.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21Do you want us to stay inside the single market, yes or no?
0:19:21 > 0:19:23No, we should be outside the single market.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26I had Michael Gove in that chair and I said, "After Brexit,
0:19:26 > 0:19:28will we be in the European single market, yes or no?",
0:19:28 > 0:19:29and he said, "No."
0:19:29 > 0:19:30He was right.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32So we won't be in the single market?
0:19:32 > 0:19:33Yes, absolutely.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36We would be out of the single market, that's the reality.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40Britain would be quitting, quitting the single market.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43So you can't really say that voters didn't know what they were voting
0:19:43 > 0:19:49for. They were voting to leave the single market and they did so. Time
0:19:49 > 0:19:53and time again I was asking people in that very chair and they said we
0:19:53 > 0:19:57are out of the single market, that's what people voted for and therefore
0:19:57 > 0:20:02it is breaking trust with the voters to stay.I don't agree, there were a
0:20:02 > 0:20:11lot of untruths told in that campaign, let's go to the bus that
0:20:11 > 0:20:19set about 350 million for the NHS. The simple fact is there was not a
0:20:19 > 0:20:23conversation with the people of the United Kingdom looking at job
0:20:23 > 0:20:32losses.I have already had that conversation on the screen.In the
0:20:32 > 0:20:39Scotland there is a threat of 80,000 jobs lost, we have lost the banking
0:20:39 > 0:20:47authority already, there's a clear threat to living on jobs. Nobody,
0:20:47 > 0:20:51when we talk about parliamentarians of the House of Commons and I will
0:20:51 > 0:20:56even say some Conservative MPs, have got to be careful because if we
0:20:56 > 0:21:00going into a hard Brexit without the protection of the single market and
0:21:00 > 0:21:03a customs union, there is an economic threat to this country
0:21:03 > 0:21:07which is unparalleled in recent times.Your real position for
0:21:07 > 0:21:11Scotland is that you want to stay inside the EU, is that still the
0:21:11 > 0:21:16case now that the actual agenda of the EU is becoming more clear?
0:21:16 > 0:21:22Martin Schultz in negotiation with Angela Merkel said he wants a new
0:21:22 > 0:21:27constitutional treaty for the United States of Europe, explicitly and
0:21:27 > 0:21:30army, Treasury and Chancellor and the rest of it, and anyone who
0:21:30 > 0:21:35doesn't like it will have to leave the EU.What we are doing is
0:21:35 > 0:21:40concentrating on what's in front of us at the moment, which is the
0:21:40 > 0:21:42negotiations of the UK and protecting our people. I would
0:21:42 > 0:21:47remind the Prime Minister we are talking about four nation states
0:21:47 > 0:21:54within the UK. What she should do is call the First Minister of Scotland
0:21:54 > 0:21:57and Wales into these negotiations. She also has to understand the
0:21:57 > 0:22:01people of Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU.
0:22:01 > 0:22:07We asking her to respect the wishes of those people by staying in the
0:22:07 > 0:22:11single market and Customs union. The question for Jeremy is is he going
0:22:11 > 0:22:16to come with us to protect the jobs and living standards of people in
0:22:16 > 0:22:22this country.I doubt it. Let me ask about the Irish border issue and the
0:22:22 > 0:22:25sense of convergence being the answer, how important is that for
0:22:25 > 0:22:31Scotland and why?It's a massive issue. At the end of the day it's
0:22:31 > 0:22:35about the living standards people have post Brexit. The UK has now
0:22:35 > 0:22:39signed up to have full convergence with southern Ireland and the rest
0:22:39 > 0:22:44of Europe. What I'm saying to the Prime Minister and everyone else is
0:22:44 > 0:22:48the single market and Customs union is the pathway to doing that.Very
0:22:48 > 0:22:53briefly, do you think the Irish agreement, the convergence, means in
0:22:53 > 0:22:58effect we stay in both those organisations?I believe it will be
0:22:58 > 0:23:03ultimate, now you can debate that. The EU is making it clear through
0:23:03 > 0:23:06the transition deal we will remain in the single market and Customs
0:23:06 > 0:23:10union and that will create the pathway for us doing it over the
0:23:10 > 0:23:17longer term.Ian Blackford, very interesting, thanks for joining us.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20Coming up later this morning, Sarah Smith will be asking Northern
0:23:20 > 0:23:22Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire how the Government got the DUP
0:23:22 > 0:23:25onside with the Brexit deal, and the Shadow Foreign Secretary,
0:23:25 > 0:23:27Emily Thornberry, about what Labour wants in the Brexit negotiations.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30That's the Sunday Politics at 11am here on BBC One.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32Up to now, Labour's answers on the really big questions
0:23:32 > 0:23:35about our future after we leave the EU have been pretty
0:23:35 > 0:23:36vague and contradictory.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38Well, the time for that has now passed.
0:23:38 > 0:23:44Sir Keir Starmer, the Shadow Brexit Secretary, joins me now.
0:23:44 > 0:23:49Do you accept you have been very clear to know about where you want
0:23:49 > 0:23:52to end up?No, we have said we want to partnerships that retains the
0:23:52 > 0:23:59benefits of the single market and the customs union.Can I explain to
0:23:59 > 0:24:02you why I think you have not been clear? You've had your deputy leader
0:24:02 > 0:24:07Tom Watson, who has said we can stay inside the single market perhaps
0:24:07 > 0:24:17input -- and you have said this week you have not been sufficiently clear
0:24:17 > 0:24:22on the point of the single market. My problem is I always get very
0:24:22 > 0:24:25technical and legal about this and I'm not going to do that, so let's
0:24:25 > 0:24:30be clear. The benefits of the single market and Customs union are no
0:24:30 > 0:24:33tariffs and an alignment of regulations and standards, and that
0:24:33 > 0:24:38means that for goods and services we can trade successfully in the
0:24:38 > 0:24:42future. That's what we want, that's what we mean by the benefits and to
0:24:42 > 0:24:49some extent the model doesn't matter.Can I try and... What you
0:24:49 > 0:24:53want is you accept you cannot stay inside the single market because of
0:24:53 > 0:24:56the referendum result but you want a new treaty which gives you as many
0:24:56 > 0:25:03of the benefits of the single market and Customs union as can be
0:25:03 > 0:25:07negotiated, is that true?The way we put it is we would start with viable
0:25:07 > 0:25:10options, staying in the customs union, and the single market variant
0:25:10 > 0:25:14which means full participation in the single market is so it's a bit
0:25:14 > 0:25:19more than that. We want the full benefits and we're clear what the
0:25:19 > 0:25:22starting options will be. But the developments this week show we are
0:25:22 > 0:25:26right in our approach because one of the reasons we advocated that course
0:25:26 > 0:25:30is because it's the only way to achieve no hard order in Northern
0:25:30 > 0:25:35Ireland. At some point I put David Davis in the House of Commons on
0:25:35 > 0:25:39Tuesday, you cannot sweep the customs union of the table on the
0:25:39 > 0:25:43one hand and say you don't want a hard order in Northern Ireland and
0:25:43 > 0:25:47that is exactly the conclusion of the negotiations this week.I want
0:25:47 > 0:25:51to come onto your position in the second but this hard border
0:25:51 > 0:25:59question, we have this new word - full convergence - of relations on
0:25:59 > 0:26:04the EU and the UK, but we are told this morning that that's not legally
0:26:04 > 0:26:10meaningful and that actually it may not mean much in the end.Well, the
0:26:10 > 0:26:14document was released on Friday, it commits to no hard border meaning no
0:26:14 > 0:26:20infrastructure and no related checks or controls. That's an absolutely
0:26:20 > 0:26:26clear commitment. Just let me finish, if you don't mind.A
0:26:26 > 0:26:32fallback position.A commitment to the north-south co-operation and
0:26:32 > 0:26:38what's written into the document is these are commitments come what may
0:26:38 > 0:26:42in all circumstances.The document also says no customs union and no
0:26:42 > 0:26:46single market.You pushed me on that fallback position so let's deal with
0:26:46 > 0:26:55that. Having re-read the small print, I am clear that fallback in
0:26:55 > 0:26:59the first position in fact will collapse into one, which is
0:26:59 > 0:27:05alignment. I have been saying over and over again...So you think this
0:27:05 > 0:27:09is the real deal?This is the real deal, you cannot have no hard border
0:27:09 > 0:27:14if you don't have alignment.You are saying that because the European
0:27:14 > 0:27:19Commission also said that?They issued their own assessment of the
0:27:19 > 0:27:23agreement reached. Remember, they are on the other side of the
0:27:23 > 0:27:28negotiating table and said they did a mapping exercise of the
0:27:28 > 0:27:31north-south cooperation agreement and they are clear the biggest
0:27:31 > 0:27:36single risk is divergence to those agreements because they are based on
0:27:36 > 0:27:39EU law. They then went on to say what the UK has said is their aim is
0:27:39 > 0:27:49to solve this with an EU UK agreement, then the EU said, "This
0:27:49 > 0:27:53intention seemed hard to reconcile with the UK's communicative decision
0:27:53 > 0:27:58to leave the internal market and Customs union".But with respect,
0:27:58 > 0:28:06they would say that.They say we do not say how option one isn't
0:28:06 > 0:28:15essentially the same... The Tory party realise this collapses into
0:28:15 > 0:28:19one way forward, which is alignment and convergence.So for a lot of
0:28:19 > 0:28:23people this is confusing but let me be clear, you really think the
0:28:23 > 0:28:27agreement Theresa May struck this week means Britain will in
0:28:27 > 0:28:32perpetuity stay close to the single market and Customs union?Yes, I
0:28:32 > 0:28:35think that's the right thing and I think we should hold her to that
0:28:35 > 0:28:39because that goes to the heart of the question, what sort of Britain
0:28:39 > 0:28:44do we want to be? Do we see Europe as our major trading partner or do
0:28:44 > 0:28:49we want to rip ourselves apart from that?So you want a new treaty
0:28:49 > 0:28:53giving full access and benefits of the single market and Customs union,
0:28:53 > 0:28:58and you have said it's a bit like Norway style treaty for the
0:28:58 > 0:29:0521st-century.Yes.The two things the EU has made clear what that
0:29:05 > 0:29:10involves is paying money in, would you accept that?Norway pays money
0:29:10 > 0:29:15in, actually on a voluntary basis but there may have to be payments,
0:29:15 > 0:29:19to be negotiated.But the other thing as you know is the four
0:29:19 > 0:29:22freedoms and you have said again and again that freedom of movement is
0:29:22 > 0:29:29off the table, after we leave we have left. Can I ask you a subtly
0:29:29 > 0:29:32different question, what maximal cross-channel migration in both
0:29:32 > 0:29:37directions be part of that's negotiation or not?Whatever the
0:29:37 > 0:29:40rules are would have to be negotiated and you are right to push
0:29:40 > 0:29:45me on this because I've said freedom of movement cannot stay the same,
0:29:45 > 0:29:50the status quo is not an option, that means it's got to be
0:29:50 > 0:29:53negotiated, and you and others push back against me and say you cannot
0:29:53 > 0:29:58have the benefits of the single market if you don't accept freedom
0:29:58 > 0:30:03of movement. Now we have the EU and UK agreeing to an approach which
0:30:03 > 0:30:07says we must retain alignment we are to solve the position in Northern
0:30:07 > 0:30:12Ireland.So that means people moving across those borders in both
0:30:12 > 0:30:16directions?Let me make this point because what is set against me every
0:30:16 > 0:30:22time I put this argument is you can't have that, it's and therefore
0:30:22 > 0:30:25you have got to give up on the benefits of the single market and
0:30:25 > 0:30:31Customs union. What's clear is the benefits are integral to Northern
0:30:31 > 0:30:35Ireland.I want to say one more time on this question of migration
0:30:35 > 0:30:40because we are moving back and forward between the EU and UK. It's
0:30:40 > 0:30:45about real people watching this programme. What Labour in that
0:30:45 > 0:30:48treaty negotiated system whereby people living in the EU could live
0:30:48 > 0:30:54and work here freely and vice versa? That would have to be negotiated. Of
0:30:54 > 0:30:59course we would want people to come from the EU to work here and people
0:30:59 > 0:31:04here to go and work in the EU, the basis of that would have to be
0:31:04 > 0:31:12negotiated.Easy movement, if not free?Of course.And after we have
0:31:12 > 0:31:17left the EU, under your negotiation we would still be mapping, copying
0:31:17 > 0:31:21and pasting, whatever, sticking close to EU regulations when it
0:31:21 > 0:31:26comes to carrots, car engines, whatever it might be?
0:31:26 > 0:31:33What underpins access and benefit is a level playing field. If you want
0:31:33 > 0:31:37those benefits, you have to stay on the same level playing field. The
0:31:37 > 0:31:45Labour Party does not want to deregulate.The answer is yes?Yes,
0:31:45 > 0:31:51we are comfortable staying on a level playing field.In the future,
0:31:51 > 0:31:55they change, the vacuum cleaner regulations, and we change with
0:31:55 > 0:32:00them, even though we do not have a vote?Yes. Let me explain. If you're
0:32:00 > 0:32:03making vacuum cleaners in this country and you are selling to
0:32:03 > 0:32:06Europe, you have to do it otherwise you cannot sell into the market. We
0:32:06 > 0:32:11have a choice about whether we stay aligned or not does not mean we have
0:32:11 > 0:32:16to exercise that choice in a way that makes it more difficult to
0:32:16 > 0:32:20trade, we can choose to stay aligned.After the negotiation, we
0:32:20 > 0:32:25carry on paying money and, easy movement of people, the people who
0:32:25 > 0:32:29voted to take our money back and cut immigration, they will not be happy,
0:32:29 > 0:32:33and we are going to copy and paste and follow the EU regulations, even
0:32:33 > 0:32:39though we do not have a vote, that is by any standards the worst of all
0:32:39 > 0:32:42worlds, you have backed yourself into a very pleasant corner.I do
0:32:42 > 0:32:46not see how it is the worst of all worlds to continue to trade
0:32:46 > 0:32:53successfully in Europe, and to have a solution that works in Ireland,
0:32:53 > 0:32:583600 people were murdered over 30 years in Northern Ireland, very good
0:32:58 > 0:33:05book published earlier this year... We are going widely off subject.
0:33:05 > 0:33:10Remember the dead, serious questions, having no hard border and
0:33:10 > 0:33:14trading successfully with Europe, it is a choice we are entitled to make.
0:33:14 > 0:33:19We have a choice and we can choose that.We will take their regulations
0:33:19 > 0:33:22without a vote, carry on with big migration back and forward and we
0:33:22 > 0:33:28will pay money for the privilege, that has been described as being a
0:33:28 > 0:33:33vassal state of the EU.How we negotiate is a matter store for
0:33:33 > 0:33:37negotiation, not cut and paste, but we do have a choice, stay aligned so
0:33:37 > 0:33:43we can trade successfully or tear apart? I say we should stay aligned.
0:33:43 > 0:33:46We are talking about what sort of Britain we are going to be, what the
0:33:46 > 0:33:50next 40, 50 years are going to look like, and I do not think anyone
0:33:50 > 0:33:53voted to make it harder to trade with Europe.Your own colleague
0:33:53 > 0:34:01Barry Gardner has described the position as a vassal state, and that
0:34:01 > 0:34:04will be Labour's position?The position Barry Gardner laid out was
0:34:04 > 0:34:09at the beginning of last summer.It is where you have ended up.We did a
0:34:09 > 0:34:12huge amount of work over the summer as you know developing our policy,
0:34:12 > 0:34:16we came up very clearly saying transitional arrangements will be
0:34:16 > 0:34:21needed and on the same terms as now and that we should have as viable
0:34:21 > 0:34:25options on the table staying in a customs union and a member of the
0:34:25 > 0:34:28single market and every Labour spokesperson since then has said the
0:34:28 > 0:34:32same thing. I appreciate looking back you can find minor differences,
0:34:32 > 0:34:38but since the summer, it has been a unified voice from Labour.I am not
0:34:38 > 0:34:42unfortunately a mind reader, but I suspect you would like to stay in
0:34:42 > 0:34:45the single market and the customs union and you know that would be the
0:34:45 > 0:34:49best available option to us right now because we would have votes and
0:34:49 > 0:34:55so forth. Can I ask you, would it not be more honest and
0:34:55 > 0:34:58straightforward and infuse many of your own supporters if you were able
0:34:58 > 0:35:03to say, yes, let us get rid of the obfuscation, weasel words, I would
0:35:03 > 0:35:07like to stay inside the single market and the customs union?I have
0:35:07 > 0:35:11said we want the benefits of both and I have said the viable options
0:35:11 > 0:35:16are staying in a customs union or variant of the single market, I do
0:35:16 > 0:35:20not want to get technical.Not exactly the same thing.Everyone
0:35:20 > 0:35:24knows you would have to sign a new agreement, you cannot stay in
0:35:24 > 0:35:28exactly the same agreement, you need a new agreement, a variant of what
0:35:28 > 0:35:39we have got,
0:35:41 > 0:35:44but do want full participation of the single market? Yes. The benefits
0:35:44 > 0:35:47of the customs union? Yes. Do we need to negotiate? Yes. That is the
0:35:47 > 0:35:49Britain we want to live in.Very big choices. Jeremy Corbyn has said the
0:35:49 > 0:35:52idea of a second referendum is on the table. Is it?At the moment, it
0:35:52 > 0:35:55is clear we have to get through this phase of the negotiation and the
0:35:55 > 0:35:59Article 50 agreement. We have never called for a second referendum, we
0:35:59 > 0:36:03are focused on what...The leader has said you have not taken a
0:36:03 > 0:36:08decision which means you might call for a second referendum, yes or no?
0:36:08 > 0:36:13We have not called a second referendum.I am asking about the
0:36:13 > 0:36:18future.It is hard to know what will happen, things are moving so fast,
0:36:18 > 0:36:23but we are not calling for it.Thank you very much.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26Now, Molly's Game is a new film based on the true story
0:36:26 > 0:36:28of an underground poker master called Molly Bloom.
0:36:28 > 0:36:30West Wing creator Aaron Sorkin's debut as a director
0:36:30 > 0:36:33is about the murky world of illegal gambling, Russian dirty money
0:36:33 > 0:36:34and American mafias, all of which confronts Molly
0:36:34 > 0:36:36with a profound moral dilemma.
0:36:36 > 0:36:38I caught up with Aaron Sorkin and Jessica Chastain,
0:36:38 > 0:36:40who plays Molly, to discuss why he chose this particular
0:36:40 > 0:36:42story for his first film.
0:36:42 > 0:36:45I wasn't going to wait before I put a plan in place.
0:36:45 > 0:36:47I will be hosting a game in this suite every Tuesday night.
0:36:47 > 0:36:48Let's play.
0:36:48 > 0:36:52Slow it down.
0:36:52 > 0:36:54Big players don't like fast games.
0:36:54 > 0:36:56Sarcastic dealing, cool.
0:36:56 > 0:37:00Molly Bloom is what got me to choose Molly Bloom.
0:37:00 > 0:37:02I read her book, which is a terrific write -
0:37:02 > 0:37:04I would recommend it
0:37:04 > 0:37:06to anybody - but then it was meeting Molly.
0:37:06 > 0:37:12In that first hour that I met her, it started to become clear to me
0:37:12 > 0:37:15that I was talking to someone who didn't realise it but she was
0:37:15 > 0:37:17a real-life movie heroine.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20She does the right thing when doing the wrong thing,
0:37:20 > 0:37:22that sense of integrity, that sense of character
0:37:22 > 0:37:25and that sense of decency.
0:37:25 > 0:37:30Especially nowadays, when you come across it,
0:37:30 > 0:37:33it feels like just a cool glass of water in the middle
0:37:33 > 0:37:35of the desert.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37She's encouraged to blurt out the names of lots of people
0:37:37 > 0:37:39whose secrets she knows, lots of powerful men,
0:37:39 > 0:37:40and she refuses to do so.
0:37:40 > 0:37:45In the end, why do you think she refuses?
0:37:45 > 0:37:47It's not about protecting powerful men, the film,
0:37:47 > 0:37:50it's about not giving any more of herself away.
0:37:50 > 0:37:56The film really explores patriarchy, and you see it in her family,
0:37:56 > 0:38:00you see it in her industry and you see it in the government.
0:38:00 > 0:38:03And Molly gives so much of who she is away throughout the film.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05She changes everything about the way she looks,
0:38:05 > 0:38:07she's jumping through these hoops, adhering to the rules
0:38:07 > 0:38:08laid out by men.
0:38:08 > 0:38:11And at the end of the movie, she says, I'm not doing it any more.
0:38:11 > 0:38:16This is my name, this is who I am and I'm going to stay true to that.
0:38:16 > 0:38:17First buy-in, 250,000.
0:38:17 > 0:38:18That's going to make noise.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20I was the biggest game runner in the world.
0:38:20 > 0:38:22You're not taking a percentage of the pot?
0:38:22 > 0:38:23No.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26Keep it that way because you don't want to break the law
0:38:26 > 0:38:27when you're breaking the law.
0:38:27 > 0:38:28Am I breaking the law?
0:38:28 > 0:38:29Not really.
0:38:29 > 0:38:31We're able to find out for sure, aren't we?
0:38:31 > 0:38:32Laws are written down.
0:38:32 > 0:38:35Despite the cocaine and the drugs, and the dirty money,
0:38:35 > 0:38:37the poker games and the sexual allure and the violence,
0:38:37 > 0:38:40is this, in the end, an old-fashioned moral story?
0:38:40 > 0:38:42Everything you described comes from the man cave that Molly has
0:38:42 > 0:38:47created to serve this industry where men make all the rules.
0:38:47 > 0:38:51So I think it's really a timely film right now.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54Also, when you think of what women had to do to find success
0:38:54 > 0:38:57in an industry dominated by men.
0:38:57 > 0:39:01And for her at the end of the film, to stay true to who she is,
0:39:01 > 0:39:04it's absolutely a moral tale.
0:39:04 > 0:39:14When you're making a film, you've written presidents,
0:39:14 > 0:39:16you've written the Social Network and now you're bringing
0:39:16 > 0:39:17in the Russian Mafia.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20That can't not be a political statement at this moment.
0:39:20 > 0:39:22It would have been a political statement no matter what year
0:39:22 > 0:39:23the film was released.
0:39:23 > 0:39:25As it happened, this film suddenly became more relevant
0:39:25 > 0:39:27than anyone expected it to be.
0:39:27 > 0:39:33I'll even tell you this - many of the Russian mobsters
0:39:33 > 0:39:41who Molly inadvertently lets into her game, she did not know
0:39:41 > 0:39:43that they were connected, as we say, in the US.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46Many of them lived in Trump Tower.
0:39:46 > 0:39:49And your characters in the West Wing have this golden way of speaking
0:39:49 > 0:39:51which owes a lot to JFK, I guess, and that era,
0:39:51 > 0:39:53and the writers around there.
0:39:53 > 0:39:58And we now have a president who communicates by tweet.
0:39:58 > 0:40:02Can I put it to you that, actually, whatever you think of Donald Trump -
0:40:02 > 0:40:05and I suspect you're not a huge supporter - he's a very,
0:40:05 > 0:40:06very effective modern rhetoritician?
0:40:06 > 0:40:07Well, effective at what?
0:40:07 > 0:40:10I don't think there's a grand strategy behind what he's doing,
0:40:10 > 0:40:13I don't think he's playing 3D chess while the rest of us
0:40:13 > 0:40:17are playing checkers.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21I think that we are seeing a guy just lob spitballs, and what he does
0:40:21 > 0:40:27best and what his base likes him the most for
0:40:27 > 0:40:30is that he's an excellent stick with which to poke
0:40:30 > 0:40:32their enemies in the eye.
0:40:32 > 0:40:37You come from an American Jewish heritage.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40Do you not at least applaud the move to Jerusalem as the capital,
0:40:40 > 0:40:41the American embassy going to Jerusalem?
0:40:41 > 0:40:44A lot of people in Israel are really, really delighted.
0:40:44 > 0:40:46No, I am not delighted that he did that.
0:40:46 > 0:40:49It was absolutely unnecessary.
0:40:49 > 0:40:54There is no upside to it.
0:40:54 > 0:40:58It will very likely cause violence around the world.
0:40:58 > 0:41:04A lot of that violence is going to be directed toward Americans.
0:41:04 > 0:41:07It was an empty gesture designed to appease a very,
0:41:07 > 0:41:17very narrow group of supporters.
0:41:17 > 0:41:19Of course, Israel is applauding it, and of course,
0:41:19 > 0:41:20we all support Israel,
0:41:20 > 0:41:23but it was a reckless and stupid thing to do.
0:41:23 > 0:41:25Jessica, Aaron, thanks very much for talking to us.
0:41:25 > 0:41:27Thank you very much.Thank you.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30Now, the main event - in his first interview
0:41:30 > 0:41:31since the Brussels deal, the Brexit Secretray,
0:41:31 > 0:41:34David Davis, joins me.
0:41:34 > 0:41:39Before we get going on this week's events, I have to ask you, no easy
0:41:39 > 0:41:42way of talking about this, an issue about your own integrity when it
0:41:42 > 0:41:46came to some of the things you have said about impact assessments, you
0:41:46 > 0:41:50told me you were doing lots of impact assessments, really important
0:41:50 > 0:41:54to work out what will happen after Brexit, then you told the House of
0:41:54 > 0:41:59Commons something else. Both clips you, the first earlier in the
0:41:59 > 0:42:01year...
0:42:01 > 0:42:04We continue to analyse the impact of our exit across the breadth
0:42:04 > 0:42:06of the UK economy covering more than 50 sectors, I think
0:42:06 > 0:42:0958 at the last count, to shape our negotiating position.
0:42:09 > 0:42:10Has the Government undertaken any impact assessments
0:42:10 > 0:42:13on the implications of leaving the EU for different
0:42:13 > 0:42:14sectors of the economy?
0:42:14 > 0:42:24Not in sectors.
0:42:25 > 0:42:31On the motor sector?No.Financial services.The answer
0:42:31 > 0:42:35will be no to all of them.
0:42:35 > 0:42:40Did the impact assessments exist or not? Using the word impact does not
0:42:40 > 0:42:44make an impact assessment. Let me be clear, the impact assessment has a
0:42:44 > 0:42:49proper meaning almost in Law, certainly in civil service, and the
0:42:49 > 0:42:53better regulation task force has guidelines. What we have done is
0:42:53 > 0:43:02analysed each sector and said, how big is it? How big is it question
0:43:02 > 0:43:08how much does it depend on European markets? That has been the focus.
0:43:08 > 0:43:13There are 850 pages of that.You were wrong in the House of Commons,
0:43:13 > 0:43:19they do exist?No. The people asking for this were aiming at was the idea
0:43:19 > 0:43:23of a forecast of the impact, the forecast of how much would this
0:43:23 > 0:43:28industry lose under this scenario, those do not exist.That is the kind
0:43:28 > 0:43:31of thing people would hope the Government had done. You're going
0:43:31 > 0:43:35into this really important negotiation, people want to know
0:43:35 > 0:43:40what the Government's view of the impact on the car industry might be.
0:43:40 > 0:43:44We know what the effective regulatory barriers are, that is the
0:43:44 > 0:43:49important thing. We will no doubt later come to the arguments of
0:43:49 > 0:43:54convergence and so on. How do we deal with that? What do we need to
0:43:54 > 0:43:57negotiate? When we started we were looking at possibly doing
0:43:57 > 0:44:01negotiation sector by sector. We will not do that so there is no
0:44:01 > 0:44:05point doing one forecast here...Why not question at uber-the forecast do
0:44:05 > 0:44:11not work. Look at what people have forecast for the outcome of the
0:44:11 > 0:44:17Brexit referendum. -- why not? The forecast do not work.They said the
0:44:17 > 0:44:22economy would come down. It has improved. Best employment ever.
0:44:22 > 0:44:27Lowest unemployment in my lifetime. Way off topic. Do you not accept you
0:44:27 > 0:44:31gave the impression the detailed impact assessments were being done,
0:44:31 > 0:44:37had been done, eye watering the detailed, meticulous, they existed?
0:44:37 > 0:44:42No. Sectoral analysis is not the same as an impact assessment.We are
0:44:42 > 0:44:45conducting a broad range of analysis on the macroeconomic and sectoral
0:44:45 > 0:44:51level, to quote, understand the impact of leaving the EU on all
0:44:51 > 0:44:55aspects of the UK, including agriculture. That is an impact
0:44:55 > 0:44:59sectoral assessment of the kind you said did not exist.That is what
0:44:59 > 0:45:07they have got. 850 pages of sectoral analysis. That is the size, the
0:45:07 > 0:45:13employment, the dependence on Europe, availability of other
0:45:13 > 0:45:17markets, that is the data, that is done. No one has said anything
0:45:17 > 0:45:22different. Throughout the course of 18 months, sectoral analysis is the
0:45:22 > 0:45:28phrase I have used. Alice in Wonderland. No, Gulliver's Travels.
0:45:28 > 0:45:34Were you loose in your language at least?I have answered questions on
0:45:34 > 0:45:40this thousands of times. I have used the term sectoral analysis many
0:45:40 > 0:45:44hundreds of times.How much will it cost to leave the EU?It is very
0:45:44 > 0:45:52complex.Again, I gave you that figure not that long ago and you
0:45:52 > 0:45:56rolled your eyes and you shut your head and you laughed and you said,
0:45:56 > 0:46:02no, absolutely not, just a guess. If billion was a guess, bloody good
0:46:02 > 0:46:09guess.If you want precision, I said, that sounds sort of made up.
0:46:09 > 0:46:13Pretty accurate question atthe reason it was sort of made up was
0:46:13 > 0:46:19because at that stage we were going through the line by line analysis.
0:46:19 > 0:46:23-- pretty accurate? We did not know what the outcome would be.When did
0:46:23 > 0:46:32you know?Let me finish. A week or so go, quite recently, we did not
0:46:32 > 0:46:36complete the line by line analysis until we went into the final round
0:46:36 > 0:46:40of negotiations.An awful lot of money, can you point to one occasion
0:46:40 > 0:46:43on which a government minister of money, can you point to one occasion
0:46:43 > 0:46:45on which a government minister ever warned the British public this is
0:46:45 > 0:46:48what it would cost to leave the EU? From the beginning, in the Lancaster
0:46:48 > 0:46:52House beach and indeed actually I think maybe in the conference
0:46:52 > 0:46:57speech, certainly Lancaster House speech, the Prime Minister said we
0:46:57 > 0:47:03would meet our obligations.No one knew what that meant.We had not
0:47:03 > 0:47:13done the numbers, the opening bid was 100 billion plus, on the front
0:47:13 > 0:47:18of the Financial Times newspaper. Nothing like 100 billion. You have
0:47:18 > 0:47:22had Keir Starmer on here promising effectively a Labour government
0:47:22 > 0:47:30would continue paying large sums of money. We are not going to do that.
0:47:30 > 0:47:35Can I ask about the sums. 40 billion is roughly four years of net import
0:47:35 > 0:47:43at the moment so forth four years of payments...It won't quite work like
0:47:43 > 0:47:49that.But at what point in this parliament will we start to get
0:47:49 > 0:47:57money back? Hardly any will come back this Parliament?If we have the
0:47:57 > 0:48:06two-year transition period, that will carry on as now, so 20 billion,
0:48:06 > 0:48:11which is a guess. But we haven't done the profile of that yet, it may
0:48:11 > 0:48:21go on for many years but quite small sums.Let's go onto this year...
0:48:21 > 0:48:26This week's negotiations.It feels light-years!Is the question is
0:48:26 > 0:48:35whether that full convergence quote, full alignment I beg your pardon, is
0:48:35 > 0:48:39real or not.It's an important distinction. You were the rate in
0:48:39 > 0:48:45the earlier about using words.I corrected myself, full alignment.
0:48:45 > 0:48:50And it was changed from no divergence, that's the point. Let me
0:48:50 > 0:49:00explain. No divergence would have meant taking cut and paste rules. It
0:49:00 > 0:49:06covers agriculture, road and rail, water... It is unlikely to have much
0:49:06 > 0:49:09impact on health or indeed education. But the ones it does have
0:49:09 > 0:49:14an impact on, we are not looking to create a circumstance where animal
0:49:14 > 0:49:22welfare is worse in Britain than elsewhere. Or where safety of food
0:49:22 > 0:49:28is worse or pollutions of waterways so we will need the outcomes but not
0:49:28 > 0:49:33do it by just copying or doing what the European Union are doing. And to
0:49:33 > 0:49:40put it plainly to you, because Keir was reading out the union comments
0:49:40 > 0:49:45on it, when the same point was put to Michel Barnier on Friday, he said
0:49:45 > 0:49:49no, you don't understand, this does not mean membership of the single
0:49:49 > 0:49:55market or the customs union.But if I put it in very simple terms, if
0:49:55 > 0:50:00they have a rule on carrots, in due course I will rule on carrots will
0:50:00 > 0:50:05be aligned. Their carrots and our carrots will be broadly speaking the
0:50:05 > 0:50:14same carrots.Full alignment means outcome. Northern Ireland is next to
0:50:14 > 0:50:19the Republic of Ireland...And it will have next to regulations, very
0:50:19 > 0:50:23similar.There will be some similarities. The Prime Minister
0:50:23 > 0:50:28made this out in her Florence speech, she said there will be areas
0:50:28 > 0:50:32where we want similar outcomes and will have similar methods to achieve
0:50:32 > 0:50:35them, there will be areas with similar outcomes but different
0:50:35 > 0:50:40methods to achieve them, and areas where we want different outcomes and
0:50:40 > 0:50:43will use different methods.Let's stick with what we know, in this
0:50:43 > 0:50:48agreement you have all signed up to full alignment, it involves
0:50:48 > 0:50:54agriculture. David Jones your junior minister was worried about this
0:50:54 > 0:50:59because he pointed out before you do a free trade deal with America they
0:50:59 > 0:51:02have insisted we have to have agricultural norms that apply to
0:51:02 > 0:51:09them as well.You say that, we haven't yet started that negotiation
0:51:09 > 0:51:14so it's a bit hard... I mean, there's an awful lot here, I saw it
0:51:14 > 0:51:20in your earlier comment as well, of assuming what the other side says in
0:51:20 > 0:51:25the negotiation at the beginning is the outcome. You can see an example
0:51:25 > 0:51:30this week in the Japan agreement where there are agricultural...
0:51:30 > 0:51:38There's no way Europe and Japan will be the same.Nonetheless the US
0:51:38 > 0:51:47Commons secretary Wilbur Ross has said any deal with Brussels might
0:51:47 > 0:51:52hinder a relationship and it's necessary we remove any unnecessary
0:51:52 > 0:51:56regulatory divergences with the US, which seems to go against the spirit
0:51:56 > 0:52:00of what you have aggrieved this week.He said maintain the
0:52:00 > 0:52:05regulations, that's not we are going to do, we are going to bring back
0:52:05 > 0:52:11control.They will be aligned, fully aligned in fact.If you look at any
0:52:11 > 0:52:15free trade deal anywhere in the world, look at the Canadian one with
0:52:15 > 0:52:22Europe, what you see is agreements on where product standards normally
0:52:22 > 0:52:26comply. Sometimes you see other things, in the free trade deal
0:52:26 > 0:52:33between Europe and Canada they say they will not go below the minimum.
0:52:33 > 0:52:37What the House of Commons and what the House of Lords, what the
0:52:37 > 0:52:41parliament will decide in the future is what's good for this industry but
0:52:41 > 0:52:43what's good in terms of both the market in Europe and the rest of the
0:52:43 > 0:52:46world and they will make those decisions independently with full
0:52:46 > 0:52:53sovereignty and even light of what the consequences will be.The
0:52:53 > 0:53:03Chancellor of the Exchequer has said that under all circumstances we will
0:53:03 > 0:53:09pay the money to the EU. Can I ask you whether this agreement this
0:53:09 > 0:53:13week...It is conditional on an outcome, I'm afraid that's not
0:53:13 > 0:53:23right. I have this -- it is conditional on a trade outcome, but
0:53:23 > 0:53:29also the other elements of the treaty which will be security,
0:53:29 > 0:53:33foreign affairs and other things.So in the unhappy possibility but it's
0:53:33 > 0:53:37a possibility if we get onto the trade side of the negotiations,
0:53:37 > 0:53:48phase to -- two, and the EU don't give us what we want and they have
0:53:48 > 0:53:52us over a barrel and we hate it and we say we are not having any of
0:53:52 > 0:53:55that, in those circumstances are committed to the regulatory
0:53:55 > 0:54:02convergence, committed to paying the money?No deal is no deal. Let me
0:54:02 > 0:54:06finish, you want the answer. Otherwise you will be coming back to
0:54:06 > 0:54:12me later saying you only said this. Number one, no deal means that we
0:54:12 > 0:54:19won't be paying the money. Some of these areas...So the Chancellor is
0:54:19 > 0:54:25wrong about that, OK.It's been made clear when ten already so that's not
0:54:25 > 0:54:30new. One of the things we have had as a major objective, Major
0:54:30 > 0:54:34negotiating objective of the British government, we don't normally lay
0:54:34 > 0:54:39out red lines, that's one of the things I have said, that we want to
0:54:39 > 0:54:44protect the peace process and also we want to protect Ireland from the
0:54:44 > 0:54:48impact of Brexit for them. So this was a statement of intent more than
0:54:48 > 0:54:55anything else.Here is the crucial question, that promise on full
0:54:55 > 0:55:00alignment that we have made not just of the EU but also in specific terms
0:55:00 > 0:55:05to the Irish government in Dublin, if we don't get a deal, does that
0:55:05 > 0:55:09promise gets torn up?I think if we don't get a deal we will have to
0:55:09 > 0:55:15find a way of making sure we keep the frictionless border as an
0:55:15 > 0:55:19invisible border in Northern Ireland. We do it at the moment. At
0:55:19 > 0:55:23the moment there are different tax and levy regimes north and south of
0:55:23 > 0:55:28the border, we manage that without having border posts and we will find
0:55:28 > 0:55:38a way of doing that.The Taoiseach thinks he has that in his pocket, he
0:55:38 > 0:55:42may be watching this. Can you look in the camera and say we commit
0:55:42 > 0:55:47ourselves to that.We commit ourselves to maintaining a
0:55:47 > 0:55:50frictionless invisible border, that's what we undertake.Even with
0:55:50 > 0:55:58no deal?Even with a WTO deal, we will find it. I strongly recommend
0:55:58 > 0:56:05reading our paper was published, we published 14 papers this year.Tell
0:56:05 > 0:56:10people, is a technical solution?It could be a solution using trusted
0:56:10 > 0:56:14traders so that people can cross the border but they will be notified and
0:56:14 > 0:56:21there will be audits of them. All sorts, and also large allowances to
0:56:21 > 0:56:25small companies. There are possibilities we can do which nobody
0:56:25 > 0:56:33has engaged on yet.Transitional period about two years.Two years.
0:56:33 > 0:56:38Is the case that during that transitional period we are still
0:56:38 > 0:56:45negotiating or not?We would expect the substance -- substantive trade
0:56:45 > 0:56:56deal to be struck.There will be tinkering going on?Yes.In real
0:56:56 > 0:57:00terms, because there has to be an implementation phase, we have about
0:57:00 > 0:57:05eight months to do an incredibly complicated trade deal that took
0:57:05 > 0:57:09Canada seven years?It's not that complicated, it come back to the
0:57:09 > 0:57:13alignment point. The first thing is we want an overarching trade deal
0:57:13 > 0:57:20which has no carrots so you don't have to negotiate every tariff. --
0:57:20 > 0:57:26that has no tariffs.Let me push back one more time on this because
0:57:26 > 0:57:30it comes to the kind of arrangement we want to have once we have finally
0:57:30 > 0:57:34left the EU which the Cabinet is finally going to discuss before
0:57:34 > 0:57:42Christmas. What is your vision of that?It's not just my vision, it's
0:57:42 > 0:57:46what we have been discussing already, before the Florence speech,
0:57:46 > 0:57:48before the white paper was published, which is an overarching
0:57:48 > 0:57:55trade deal which includes services, with individual specific
0:57:55 > 0:58:00arrangements for aviation, nuclear, data, a series of strands am most of
0:58:00 > 0:58:05them based on where we start now. As Michel Barnier has said, the thing
0:58:05 > 0:58:09is how we manage divergence, that's the point. So that it doesn't
0:58:09 > 0:58:15undercut the access in the future. Going further forward. So if the
0:58:15 > 0:58:22basic deal, I'm being very crude about this but it is Canada plus the
0:58:22 > 0:58:29city?Plus plus plus would be one way of putting it.The French want
0:58:29 > 0:58:38to steal as much of the city as they can.That's your words.Appropriate,
0:58:38 > 0:58:41grab, whatever. It's perfectly possible that would make a very
0:58:41 > 0:58:45difficult negotiation and cannot be done within eight months so if it's
0:58:45 > 0:58:50not finished within eight months, what happens?I don't agree, it's
0:58:50 > 0:58:55more like a year than eight months but we cannot sign this until after
0:58:55 > 0:59:00we actually leave, it may be one-minute or one second after we
0:59:00 > 0:59:04leave but the formal technicalities mean we can't do that. We have about
0:59:04 > 0:59:08a year which is why this week was important. If we had gone through
0:59:08 > 0:59:15this week...I have another this week question.Then we really would
0:59:15 > 0:59:20have been com pressed and I would be saying it is difficult to do. So the
0:59:20 > 0:59:24odds against a WTO agreement have dropped dramatically.And that's the
0:59:24 > 0:59:29meaning of this week. Let me ask what Michael Gove meant when he said
0:59:29 > 0:59:34this can be looked up again at the next general election, if we don't
0:59:34 > 0:59:39like the deal David Davis has struck, don't worry... That wasn't
0:59:39 > 0:59:45helpful, was it?It's a statement of the obvious, any new government is
0:59:45 > 0:59:50elected on a mandate of its own. We were elected on the mandate the deal
0:59:50 > 0:59:53was delivered, any other government might not be. That would be the
0:59:53 > 0:59:59consequence. Go back and renegotiate or whatever. But it's a statement of
0:59:59 > 1:00:08the obvious.And what you want is Canada plus plus plus.What we want
1:00:08 > 1:00:14is a bespoke outcome. We will probably start with the best of
1:00:14 > 1:00:18Canada and the best of Japan and best of south Korea and add to that
1:00:18 > 1:00:24the bits which are missing, which are the services.Thank you.
1:00:24 > 1:00:25That's all for this week.
1:00:25 > 1:00:28Next week, we'll be back with our final show before
1:00:28 > 1:00:29the Christmas break.
1:00:29 > 1:00:32My guests will include a man tipped by many to be the next James Bond,
1:00:32 > 1:00:34the actor James Norton.
1:00:34 > 1:00:35Plus, much more.
1:00:35 > 1:00:38Until then, goodbye.