0:00:03 > 0:00:10Good morning.
0:00:10 > 0:00:12Welcome to our last show of the year.
0:00:12 > 0:00:13What a year it's been.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Back in 2016, we had Brexit, Donald Trump's election,
0:00:15 > 0:00:17and all those bloodthirsty leadership tussles.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20And we thought, "Wow - 2017's going to be a lot
0:00:20 > 0:00:21calmer than that."
0:00:21 > 0:00:22But what happened?
0:00:22 > 0:00:23The unexpected general election,
0:00:23 > 0:00:24its unexpected result,
0:00:24 > 0:00:26a weakened but resilient Prime Minister struggling on,
0:00:26 > 0:00:28and the drama of the Corbyn surge.
0:00:28 > 0:00:332018's going to be really quiet.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53But are the ghosts of past decisions coming back to haunt
0:00:53 > 0:00:54the Government this Christmas?
0:00:54 > 0:00:56I'll be talking about fairness with the Work
0:00:56 > 0:00:59and Pensions Secretary, David Gauke.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01And now we know that Labour is committed to "easy movement"
0:01:01 > 0:01:03of people post-Brexit.
0:01:03 > 0:01:04But what does that mean?
0:01:04 > 0:01:09I'll be asking the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
0:01:14 > 0:01:16It's up to you to decide which of them
0:01:16 > 0:01:18is a villain or a hero, but I've been talking
0:01:18 > 0:01:20to a man who plays both -
0:01:20 > 0:01:23James Norton, the terrifying psycho from Happy Valley,
0:01:23 > 0:01:26now starring in a new and very up-to-the-minute BBC One thriller,
0:01:26 > 0:01:31McMafia, about the Russian criminal underworld.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33Plus we'll be looking back over the political year.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36Who could these people be talking about?
0:01:36 > 0:01:38I don't want him managing the Brexit process.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40This is back-seat driving, in effect.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42You could call it backstreet driving.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44I don't understand why she hasn't fired him.
0:01:44 > 0:01:45Is he unsackable?
0:01:45 > 0:01:46SHE LAUGHS.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49Look, let's be very clear...
0:01:55 > 0:01:57You've probably guessed but find out for sure later.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00And we'll be finishing with a Christmas carol.
0:02:00 > 0:02:06# The rising of the sun and the running of the dear
0:02:06 > 0:02:12# Sweet singing in the choir.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14Reviewing the news, the cream of journalism -
0:02:14 > 0:02:16Tim Shipman of the Sunday Times, the political broadcaster
0:02:16 > 0:02:18Emma Barnett, and Rachel Johnson of the Mail on Sunday.
0:02:18 > 0:02:22But first the news with Ben Thompson.
0:02:23 > 0:02:24Good morning.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26Six people have been killed and a seventh critically injured
0:02:26 > 0:02:30in a multiple vehicle crash in Birmingham, according to
0:02:30 > 0:02:32the West Midlands Ambulance Service.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35The crash happened early Sunday morning on Belgrave
0:02:35 > 0:02:37Middleway near Edgbaston.
0:02:37 > 0:02:40Six vehicles were involved in the incident.
0:02:40 > 0:02:45The road is expected to be closed throughout the day.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48Every worker aged 18 or over will begin saving
0:02:48 > 0:02:50into a workplace pension unless they opt out.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53That's under government plans being unveiled today.
0:02:53 > 0:02:57At the moment, employers must enrol staff aged 22 and over
0:02:57 > 0:03:02into a pension plan if they earn more than £10,000 a year.
0:03:02 > 0:03:04Ministers say they want to reduce the minimum age
0:03:04 > 0:03:08to 18 by the mid 2020s, a move that could affect around
0:03:08 > 0:03:12900,000 young people.
0:03:12 > 0:03:14Theresa May says the last ten days have "marked a watershed"
0:03:14 > 0:03:18in the UK's departure from the European Union.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21Writing in the Sunday Telegraph and the Sunday Express,
0:03:21 > 0:03:24the Prime Minister says she will "not be derailed" from
0:03:24 > 0:03:27securing an "ambitious" Brexit deal.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Meanwhile, the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has told
0:03:29 > 0:03:32the Sunday Times that it's vital the UK doesn't mirror EU
0:03:32 > 0:03:35laws in the long term, or the country risks
0:03:35 > 0:03:41being a "vassal state."
0:03:41 > 0:03:43Drivers are being urged to avoid travelling on so-called
0:03:43 > 0:03:45"Frantic Friday" this week, when the last of the year's
0:03:45 > 0:03:47commuter traffic will clash with the Christmas getaway.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49The RAC warns that the worst hold-ups are expected
0:03:49 > 0:03:53between 4 and 8pm.
0:03:53 > 0:03:57It also estimates that 11.5 million car trips will be made
0:03:57 > 0:04:01between now and Christmas Eve.
0:04:01 > 0:04:02That's all from me.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04The next news on BBC One is at 1pm.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:07 > 0:04:08Thank you, Ben.
0:04:08 > 0:04:13Now to the papers.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17Now to the papers.
0:04:17 > 0:04:21We have somebody on the front of the Sunday Times who thinks that Jacob
0:04:21 > 0:04:26Rees-Mogg is a sex god. And Boris Johnson says we must be left as a
0:04:26 > 0:04:31vassal state or a colony of the EU. The Sunday telegraph, Theresa May
0:04:31 > 0:04:35has written for them as well as the Express, I have proved the doubters
0:04:35 > 0:04:45wrong, she says. And there is Jo. Strictly has become a personality
0:04:45 > 0:04:49contest, and everybody loved Joe. Another personality contest inside
0:04:49 > 0:04:54Africa going on on the front of the Observer, a new leader for the ANC
0:04:54 > 0:04:59shortly, and they have a different take on Brexit, call off the Brexit
0:04:59 > 0:05:02Belize or face defeat, Tory peers tell May. The dangers of Theresa May
0:05:02 > 0:05:12leaning too far to Boris Johnson and that lot. A story about Corbyn
0:05:12 > 0:05:16trolling a Tory MP on the front of the Mail on Sunday, but this story
0:05:16 > 0:05:19is rather lacking in names and details and we probably will not
0:05:19 > 0:05:23give it much attention. In the Sunday Express, Theresa May, she
0:05:23 > 0:05:28says, I won't be derailed. Interviewing Boris Johnson, and we'd
0:05:28 > 0:05:34love to see you here in due course, but you have interviewed him. What's
0:05:34 > 0:05:37the top line?He is going to Russia next week but he couldn't resist
0:05:37 > 0:05:42talking about Brexit. He waxed lyrical about how these meetings are
0:05:42 > 0:05:45happening early next week at the Cabinet and everybody is going to
0:05:45 > 0:05:49put out their points of view, and Boris is saying, it's important when
0:05:49 > 0:05:51Boris is saying, it's important when we leave that we are able to ditch
0:05:51 > 0:05:59EU rules. We don't want to be a vassal state and we need to do our
0:05:59 > 0:06:02own thing.More or less what Theresa May said in the Florence speech, but
0:06:02 > 0:06:07there is a clear gap. We can't use words like hard or soft, but a clear
0:06:07 > 0:06:11gap between those people who want us to stay as close as possible to the
0:06:11 > 0:06:15EU, the converters or the continental shelf party, and those
0:06:15 > 0:06:19who want to turn their backs and look out to the rest of the world,
0:06:19 > 0:06:25the deep boozy party. Is that fair? Yes, Boris, Michael Gove and Gavin
0:06:25 > 0:06:28Williamson on one side, Philip Hammond and Amber Rudd and others on
0:06:28 > 0:06:32the other, and there will be a big ding dong over month or so in the
0:06:32 > 0:06:37cabinet around that. In the paper this morning, we are reading that
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Michael Gove wanted to ditch the working time directive, which I
0:06:40 > 0:06:44suspect will become heated. They are looking for ways we will have
0:06:44 > 0:06:50freedoms and how to use them to make a different sort of...A different
0:06:50 > 0:06:55economy and society?Potentially. Theresa May has been busy with her
0:06:55 > 0:07:02pen overnight. Rachel, tell us about this one.This is a piece that at
0:07:02 > 0:07:08the FT we used to call a mediocre piece, because it took me so many
0:07:08 > 0:07:15attempts to get through to the third leg of it. Essentially, she is
0:07:15 > 0:07:18saying, steady as she goes, I'm getting on with job, but you get
0:07:18 > 0:07:23towards the end you see that Theresa May realises her government has a
0:07:23 > 0:07:28problem, which means it is being consumed by Brexit. At some point,
0:07:28 > 0:07:32she says, we are also doing this for the young people and housing and the
0:07:32 > 0:07:37rest of it, so she is trying in the margins, it has to be said, to
0:07:37 > 0:07:41address the causes of Brexit as well as Brexit. She has a job on the
0:07:41 > 0:07:46ends.She's like one of those fairground things, when you knock
0:07:46 > 0:07:50her, she come straight back up. There was a growing sense perhaps
0:07:50 > 0:07:53that she is able to keep going when lots of men would have given up and
0:07:53 > 0:07:59stormed off.To me, it's like the charge of the light Brigade, cannons
0:07:59 > 0:08:03to the left, cannons to the right, the EU in front, and as far as I'm
0:08:03 > 0:08:07aware, into the valley of death, which is going out of the EU and
0:08:07 > 0:08:13over the cliff.Some people agree, because there was a new poll from
0:08:13 > 0:08:16the Independent.Yes, the largest gap between people who want to
0:08:16 > 0:08:22remain and those who want to leave, 51% backing remaining in the union
0:08:22 > 0:08:26and 49% still wanting to leave, and it feeds into this greater sense of
0:08:26 > 0:08:31a rebellion, as we saw it, with the Conservatives who went against the
0:08:31 > 0:08:35government this week, that perhaps we are in that situation.We have
0:08:35 > 0:08:39had polls bring in lots of directions, and another one in the
0:08:39 > 0:08:42Sun, but there is maybe some sense that the mood of the country is
0:08:42 > 0:08:45changing from the anti-Brexit side of the argument, although they
0:08:45 > 0:08:49accept it's going to happen. The Observer macro as lead on the Tory
0:08:49 > 0:08:55remainders flexing their muscles, flexing their muscles and determined
0:08:55 > 0:08:59to carry on fighting in the House of Lords.Two elements to what they
0:08:59 > 0:09:06have done today, in the week when the Conservative rebels were branded
0:09:06 > 0:09:11mutineers, what now for the hard line, for the Brexiteers? Some
0:09:11 > 0:09:15quotes saying, now that the hard Brexiteers are no longer important,
0:09:15 > 0:09:18not only did they push to get the EU referendum, but their voices are
0:09:18 > 0:09:23being drowned out in Parliamentary process. You are quoting Jacob
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Rees-Mogg saying that we don't want become an EU colony, and Boris
0:09:27 > 0:09:31represents the other side, talking about wanting to have total
0:09:31 > 0:09:35divergences from the law, but they are now being outnumbered and
0:09:35 > 0:09:41defeated. Two Conservative peers in the Observer saying, we will not be
0:09:41 > 0:09:48bullied in the House of Commons Ali Lord's. In a week when Lord Winston
0:09:48 > 0:09:52on question time was talking about maybe Brexit will not happen. -- we
0:09:52 > 0:09:56will not be bullied in the House of Lords. It's an interesting tone
0:09:56 > 0:10:01starting to happen as it gets into the kinds of Parliament.From
0:10:01 > 0:10:04outside, you'd think that the people pro Brexit would be in the driving
0:10:04 > 0:10:08seat and you would find it hard to believe that they have suddenly lost
0:10:08 > 0:10:13all that power and gumption in the last few days. What do you think,
0:10:13 > 0:10:18Tim?Is difficult to see it being overturned, but the problem Theresa
0:10:18 > 0:10:21May has is that it looks like there was a majority in the House of
0:10:21 > 0:10:25Commons for a softer Brexit but, in the Conservatives, there is still a
0:10:25 > 0:10:28strong majority in favour of a clean break and doing it in the way Boris
0:10:28 > 0:10:32would like.But we never seem to know what Theresa May actually
0:10:32 > 0:10:38things.Here is the question, because there was going to be a
0:10:38 > 0:10:41Cabinet meeting this week in which we are told everybody is going to
0:10:41 > 0:10:44lay out their own vision of what is going to beat Britain's relationship
0:10:44 > 0:10:48with the EU and the rest of the world after Brexit, and that must
0:10:48 > 0:10:53mean that the Prime Minister finally says, this is what I want.I
0:10:53 > 0:10:56wouldn't put too much on that! Downing Street briefing that the
0:10:56 > 0:11:00Prime Minister will listen to the views of her ministers but will not
0:11:00 > 0:11:03provide a strong lead. She will go away over Christmas and work out
0:11:03 > 0:11:07where she can come back in the New Year and make a speech that tries to
0:11:07 > 0:11:12synthesise all of these views, which could be difficult.Let's go to
0:11:12 > 0:11:17Dominic Grieve, in the Mail, a torrid week for him. He seems to be
0:11:17 > 0:11:23unbowed, it's fair to say.The story here is of a confrontation between
0:11:23 > 0:11:29Dominic Grieve, the rebel commander, and Julian chief Ali Smith, the new
0:11:29 > 0:11:35Chief Whip. He might look back on his old friend, Gavin Williamson. --
0:11:35 > 0:11:41and Julian Smith, the new Chief Whip.He needs a tarantula.This
0:11:41 > 0:11:47highlights tensions in the Tory party and accusations of betrayal.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49There is still a great sensitivity with May and her team at the centre
0:11:49 > 0:11:56who are worried about any form of dissent from people like Dominic
0:11:56 > 0:12:00Grieve.Let's break away from Brexit and go to another story. The
0:12:00 > 0:12:04automatic pensions story, which is all over the news today, and takes
0:12:04 > 0:12:07us all back to our early years, because this is a story whereby
0:12:07 > 0:12:11900,000 more young people are going to be automatically enrolled in
0:12:11 > 0:12:18pension schemes.I haven't drilled down particularly, but one always
0:12:18 > 0:12:21asks with these things, how much is it going to cost the government or
0:12:21 > 0:12:27the employers if they are going to have to match contributions?Or the
0:12:27 > 0:12:32employees, because the amount you pay in goes up sharply next year.In
0:12:32 > 0:12:40our 20s, we were never going to get old, were we? Look at us now! When I
0:12:40 > 0:12:45started in journalism, I wasn't allowed to join a pension scheme, so
0:12:45 > 0:12:52this is a welcome reverse.But the red tape to businesses will be
0:12:52 > 0:12:54interesting, because at the same time the Conservatives are trying to
0:12:54 > 0:12:59appeal to young people, and perhaps it isn't that sexy a cell, but it's
0:12:59 > 0:13:03important, and if you're joining the workforce at 18, not going to
0:13:03 > 0:13:12university, not paying tuition fees...Onto another story, Grenfell
0:13:12 > 0:13:16Tower, one of the dominating stories of this year. Steve McQueen is an
0:13:16 > 0:13:19artist and film-maker, a real rising star in that world, and he is making
0:13:19 > 0:13:25a film about this.He grew up in a council estate near Grenfell Tower,
0:13:25 > 0:13:29so he starts work tomorrow to create a lasting memorial, using a
0:13:29 > 0:13:32helicopter to film the carcass of that building, which is still
0:13:32 > 0:13:35standing. The eyes of the country is possibly the world this week were
0:13:35 > 0:13:39forced back again onto what has happened to be survivors of
0:13:39 > 0:13:44Grenfell, remembering the 71 died at that national memorial at St Pauls,
0:13:44 > 0:13:49and he is a fitting choice to try and do justice, if that's the right
0:13:49 > 0:13:54way of saying it, to creating a memorial to the people who lost
0:13:54 > 0:13:57their lives. The helicopter will film the charred remains of the
0:13:57 > 0:14:01building, but eventually it will go on display in the London museum.I
0:14:01 > 0:14:06live about 200 yards from Grenfell Tower, and I think there is some
0:14:06 > 0:14:09suggestion from the people who lived in the tower that they want it to
0:14:09 > 0:14:15remain as it is as a memorial, as a reminder of what happened to the
0:14:15 > 0:14:19people who died. It is being clad at the moment, but I think it's still
0:14:19 > 0:14:25in the balance. It is good he is recording it.A fairly hideous thing
0:14:25 > 0:14:32to see every time you come into London, that blackened stump at you
0:14:32 > 0:14:36for the-- staring at you. With Theresa May writing this piece today
0:14:36 > 0:14:39at Brexit, while it has been quite a lot of people is a single issue
0:14:39 > 0:14:46government, and this week by having, six months on, a commemoration at St
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Pauls, and seeing politicians, the Royal Family, people affected by
0:14:49 > 0:14:54that tragedy, sitting together, I can't remember a service like that.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58It focuses the mind on those people. Let's turn to South Africa, Tim
0:14:58 > 0:15:04Shipman. A big spread from your paper about the ANC.It is a
0:15:04 > 0:15:12reminder that chaotic politics isn't confined to Britain. The ANC annual
0:15:12 > 0:15:16get-together has begun, and it's all about who replaces Jacob Zuma. It is
0:15:16 > 0:15:23a measure of the trouble that Jacob Zuma is in, facing 800 accusations
0:15:23 > 0:15:26of corruption, that he wants his ex-wife to take over because she
0:15:26 > 0:15:32might protect him from prosecution the favourite is his deputy,
0:15:32 > 0:15:35international business is waiting to see what happens, they hope his
0:15:35 > 0:15:43deputy wins and cleaned out the stables.
0:15:43 > 0:15:48And it puts our party political conferences to shame with all of the
0:15:48 > 0:15:54dancing and whooping. One final story I insist on discussing is
0:15:54 > 0:16:03Strictly.I don't know what that was but I liked it. That's my entire
0:16:03 > 0:16:09repertoire! I watched a bit of it. It's wonderful, isn't it?They often
0:16:09 > 0:16:13have to or three people who are spectacular dancers but who didn't
0:16:13 > 0:16:18win because in the end in the public vote it's about whether they like
0:16:18 > 0:16:27you or not.I think Joe McFadden is a wonderful winner, but is it about
0:16:27 > 0:16:33who has the best social media game? It was a great victory for Scotland.
0:16:33 > 0:16:38Also I think it's good to mention Debbie McGee, 59 years of age,
0:16:38 > 0:16:42someone older not being a joke on the programme and she was amazing.
0:16:42 > 0:16:54And a great result too for Katya Jones. Anybody would think it was Ed
0:16:54 > 0:16:58Balls holding her back this year. Thank you very much.
0:16:58 > 0:16:59And so to the weather.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01Bone-chillingly cold yesterday - raw and comfortless.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04And, of course, at this time of year it's mandatory to blather
0:17:04 > 0:17:07on about a white Christmas, though I have to say it felt very
0:17:07 > 0:17:10mild when I got up this morning, and I think -
0:17:10 > 0:17:12and I may be wrong - there's more warmish weather coming?
0:17:12 > 0:17:15Over to Stav Danaos in the weather studio.
0:17:15 > 0:17:16It was
0:17:16 > 0:17:19It was actually quite cold this morning across the south-east, a
0:17:19 > 0:17:24frosty start here and a lot of dense fog to watch out for. Further north
0:17:24 > 0:17:31a different story, a weather system moving in, I'll break to brain and
0:17:31 > 0:17:42my older air pushing into the south-west. That wind and rain
0:17:42 > 0:17:45clears away from the south and east of the country this evening.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49Overnight it should be a dry one, a ridge of high pressure moving in so
0:17:49 > 0:17:55winds will be light, sky is clear, rest before a cold night to come.
0:17:55 > 0:18:03Mist and fog to greet us on Monday morning. It will be a fine day to
0:18:03 > 0:18:06start the week thanks to that ridge of high pressure. Some cloud pushing
0:18:06 > 0:18:08into the north-west of the country and across the far south-west,
0:18:08 > 0:18:13slightly milder air here but a chilly day to come. Then thereafter,
0:18:13 > 0:18:18Tuesday onwards, it's looking very mild and we will continue to see
0:18:18 > 0:18:22these south-westerly is pushing in the Atlantic. Some cloud with it
0:18:22 > 0:18:29which will produce the odd spot of rain.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33Told you.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36Now, last week on this show, we finally learned in clear terms
0:18:36 > 0:18:39what Labour's policy will be for the British economy, immigration
0:18:39 > 0:18:41and our future relationship with the EU after Brexit.
0:18:41 > 0:18:42At least, I think we did.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44I was talking to Keir Starmer, Labour's Brexit spokesman,
0:18:44 > 0:18:47but the party has reached for various hymn books on this
0:18:47 > 0:18:49subject, so it's perhaps worth pursuing a bit further
0:18:49 > 0:18:53with the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
0:18:53 > 0:18:58Can I just ask you about the Keir Starmer menu is it were for after we
0:18:58 > 0:19:02leave the EU. He said would have to have a close relationship with the
0:19:02 > 0:19:06single market, a bit like a modernised Norway style, is that
0:19:06 > 0:19:11fair enough?The most important thing about our position on Brexit
0:19:11 > 0:19:16is that the priority for us is jobs and the economy. For Theresa May it
0:19:16 > 0:19:22seems to be holding her Cabinet together.Specifics, sort of Norway
0:19:22 > 0:19:29style?Specifically we put jobs and the economy first, specifically we
0:19:29 > 0:19:34will not vote for anything that jobs and the economy.What does that mean
0:19:34 > 0:19:38about our relationship with the single market long-term?It means we
0:19:38 > 0:19:43were calling for a transitional period which the Tories have
0:19:43 > 0:19:50adopted...And talking about the end position.We are not conducting this
0:19:50 > 0:19:54negotiation but we are calling for a transitional period and obviously
0:19:54 > 0:19:59during the transitional period we will be having a measure of staying
0:19:59 > 0:20:04in the single market and staying in the customs union.What are buying
0:20:04 > 0:20:08into the single market EU in order to have a close relationship with
0:20:08 > 0:20:13the single market, which is our biggest market.We are not
0:20:13 > 0:20:18conducting this negotiation.We have had answers from your party already
0:20:18 > 0:20:24which seem to bear and you appear to be rowing back from them.I am
0:20:24 > 0:20:27reminding you of our principles and we are going into this with
0:20:27 > 0:20:31principles whereas the Government is going into this trying to hold its
0:20:31 > 0:20:35MPs together.Keir Starmer said we might have to make payments in to
0:20:35 > 0:20:41get access to the single market, do you agree?We may have to but we
0:20:41 > 0:20:47will wait and see how the negotiations go.Free movement is
0:20:47 > 0:20:53part of the four freedoms of the EU, but easy movement we agree will be
0:20:53 > 0:20:58the likely Labour position, do you know what that will mean?I think
0:20:58 > 0:21:03most people agree we have to get rid of some of the bureaucracy around
0:21:03 > 0:21:08migration, and in fact even the Government is now agreeing because
0:21:08 > 0:21:13they announced last week that they are going to introduce a new online
0:21:13 > 0:21:18system for EU nationals and they will do away with the 85 page forms
0:21:18 > 0:21:22and I think that's what we were referencing when we talked about
0:21:22 > 0:21:27easy movement. Less bureaucracy, it's good for migrants and business.
0:21:27 > 0:21:33If I was a French citizen of the year with my burgundy passport, I
0:21:33 > 0:21:39want to come to the UK, do I show my passport or will I be questioned and
0:21:39 > 0:21:44show my visa? Would it be harder to come here after Brexit if Labour are
0:21:44 > 0:21:50in power, which you might well be. We hope we will be. Were talking
0:21:50 > 0:21:54about less bureaucracy which is better for the country as a whole
0:21:54 > 0:21:58and the bureaucracy is a real problem and that's what we reference
0:21:58 > 0:22:02when we talk about easy movement. What I'm asking is what is the
0:22:02 > 0:22:05difference between the current system where we are now when it
0:22:05 > 0:22:11comes to movement from the EU to the UK and vice versa now and what you
0:22:11 > 0:22:16would like to see after we leave the EU. You might be Home Secretary so
0:22:16 > 0:22:23it's not an unfair question to ask you.When we leave the single
0:22:23 > 0:22:26market, freedom of movement will fall. What we will put in its place
0:22:26 > 0:22:29is a reasonable management of migration and part of that will be
0:22:29 > 0:22:34moving away from the bureaucracy that bedevils the current system.So
0:22:34 > 0:22:39it will be relatively easy for EU citizens to come here after Brexit.
0:22:39 > 0:22:42It will be relatively less bureaucratic than proposals the
0:22:42 > 0:22:49Government has made.Straightforward question, will they need visas?We
0:22:49 > 0:22:54will have to see how this negotiation goes.Surely you know
0:22:54 > 0:22:59the answer to these questions, you could be Home Secretary quite soon.
0:22:59 > 0:23:04We are going to have fair rules and reasonable management that may
0:23:04 > 0:23:10involve the visa system, but we have to see how these negotiations the
0:23:10 > 0:23:14Government is undertaking go.Do you think the number of people coming
0:23:14 > 0:23:19here from the EU will go down after Brexit if you are in power?You
0:23:19 > 0:23:23should talk to British business and the health service because they are
0:23:23 > 0:23:28very worried about a collapse in the number of EU migrants coming here,
0:23:28 > 0:23:35social care would be in a terrible position, the health service,
0:23:35 > 0:23:39finance, education, so we will be listening, as the Government should
0:23:39 > 0:23:44be listening, to what business and the public sector says about its
0:23:44 > 0:23:48needs for Labour.And in all those areas you've listed, do you think we
0:23:48 > 0:23:55need roughly the kind of numbers of people coming here now to keep the
0:23:55 > 0:24:04NHS and businesses running as they have been?Businesses and education
0:24:04 > 0:24:08are saying we do need the Eastern European migrants coming here.So we
0:24:08 > 0:24:14could see the same number of people after Brexit coming here as they do
0:24:14 > 0:24:19now.It's not my view, I'm just trying to point out some reality
0:24:19 > 0:24:25here and the reality is that business, the CBI, the Institute of
0:24:25 > 0:24:30directors but also health, education and social care, they say that they
0:24:30 > 0:24:34need these European migrants and we have to listen to them.So numbers
0:24:34 > 0:24:38of people coming in much the same probably, paying in quite possibly
0:24:38 > 0:24:43and being very close to the single market, that was the Keir Starmer
0:24:43 > 0:24:48message as well. That's why a lot of your original hard-core anti-EU
0:24:48 > 0:24:55voters are so upset at the moment. We are going to look at something, a
0:24:55 > 0:25:00guy on question Time who comes from a staunch Labour seat in the north.
0:25:00 > 0:25:05Their party is tending towards the single market now which is
0:25:05 > 0:25:13unrestricted migration, and that is what this town overall voted to
0:25:13 > 0:25:18stop... And her party is doing more damage to these communities if we
0:25:18 > 0:25:23are going to hear that Keir Starmer keep on about the single market on
0:25:23 > 0:25:28its way back. That's what we wouldn't have in these working-class
0:25:28 > 0:25:32traditional communities and you are stabbing us in the back.Why do you
0:25:32 > 0:25:37think he feels like that?You have one clip from question time but I
0:25:37 > 0:25:45speak to my colleagues who represent constituencies all over the country
0:25:45 > 0:25:50and what Labour voters are concerned about is the chaos of the Tory
0:25:50 > 0:25:53negotiations. Theresa May promised the negotiations around trade would
0:25:53 > 0:25:59take place in parallel to the negotiations, that didn't happen.
0:25:59 > 0:26:05She just lost a vote in parliament. What our voters are concerned about
0:26:05 > 0:26:09is the chaos of the Tory negotiation.That absolutely was one
0:26:09 > 0:26:14clip but don't you think there's a lot of people who agree with that
0:26:14 > 0:26:18guy who are Labour voters across nonmetropolitan Briton who want
0:26:18 > 0:26:21Brexit to happen, don't like the idea of being in the single market
0:26:21 > 0:26:26and your party will have to jump on one side of the fence or the other
0:26:26 > 0:26:36eventually.I think my party talks to more Labour voters than you do,
0:26:36 > 0:26:38with respect, and their concern is the Tory negotiations are mess and
0:26:38 > 0:26:40they are increasingly concerned about what the prospects after the
0:26:40 > 0:26:44jobs and the economy and those are the issues Labour will be fighting
0:26:44 > 0:26:50on.How is campaign going for a second referendum?The Labour Party
0:26:50 > 0:26:55hasn't supported a second referendum.You said to your
0:26:55 > 0:26:59constituents that you wanted one. We know Parliament will get a vote at
0:26:59 > 0:27:03the end of this process but you said yourself your constituents should
0:27:03 > 0:27:10vote as well so that's why I'm asking.You are referencing some Lib
0:27:10 > 0:27:16Dem stuff. I did say...Here is the Guardian. November 2016, you cannot
0:27:16 > 0:27:20have access to the single market without freedom of movement. Then
0:27:20 > 0:27:29you go on to say, lots of perfectly with -- respectable people voted for
0:27:29 > 0:27:32freedom of movement. Then you say I will argue for the right of the
0:27:32 > 0:27:38electorate to vote on any deal that is finally agreed. I will argue for
0:27:38 > 0:27:43the right of the electorate to vote for any deal finally agreed, is that
0:27:43 > 0:27:47true?It is true that Parliament agreed last week that Parliament,
0:27:47 > 0:27:53who represent the electorate... It's about the electorate, we have a
0:27:53 > 0:27:56Parliamentary system and we did agree last week against the wishes
0:27:56 > 0:28:00of the governments that Parliament will have a final vote on the deal
0:28:00 > 0:28:06and I think that's very important. It will allow MPs to reflect the
0:28:06 > 0:28:11views of the electorate.But that is not a second referendum. That, from
0:28:11 > 0:28:17your point of view, won't happen?We have never supported it and we don't
0:28:17 > 0:28:24support it.You did in that quote, I would suggest.No, we think they
0:28:24 > 0:28:32should have a say via their elected representatives.Do you think the
0:28:32 > 0:28:38country is threatened by cuts in police budgets across the country?
0:28:38 > 0:28:41There are police chiefs up and down the country who are concerned about
0:28:41 > 0:28:47the fact we have lost 20,000 police officers since 2010 and when you
0:28:47 > 0:28:52look at an issue like terrorism, the recent report by David Anderson on
0:28:52 > 0:28:57the terrorist incidents this year, one of the points he made was
0:28:57 > 0:29:01actually neighbourhood policing is our front line against terrorism
0:29:01 > 0:29:05because it is neighbourhood police who get the information, who are
0:29:05 > 0:29:10talking to communities and help the fight against terrorism.Diane
0:29:10 > 0:29:16Abbott, thanks very much indeed for talking to us.
0:29:16 > 0:29:18James Norton is one of Britain's fastest-rising stars.
0:29:18 > 0:29:21You might remember him as Tommy Lee Royce in Happy Valley
0:29:21 > 0:29:23or as Prince Andrei in Tolstoy's War And Peace.
0:29:23 > 0:29:25In January, he returns to BBC One with McMafia,
0:29:25 > 0:29:27a new thriller tracing the shadowy world of globalised crime,
0:29:27 > 0:29:29based on the book by Misha Glenny.
0:29:29 > 0:29:31In it, he plays Alex, the English-raised son of Russian
0:29:31 > 0:29:40exiles who, despite the glamour, have a murky past...
0:29:54 > 0:29:55Hi, darling.
0:29:55 > 0:29:57There's someone at the door.
0:29:57 > 0:29:58Don't you answer it.
0:29:58 > 0:30:00Get away from the door, Mama.
0:30:00 > 0:30:02What is the McMafia?
0:30:02 > 0:30:08It's a story about a young man who gets sucked in to a huge,
0:30:08 > 0:30:11globalised, interconnected web of corruption and organised crime.
0:30:11 > 0:30:17Tell me, when you were in the business school,
0:30:17 > 0:30:21what model did they teach you for creating franchise?
0:30:21 > 0:30:24McDonald's.
0:30:24 > 0:30:27The use of the suffix Mc is explained in the first episode.
0:30:27 > 0:30:29David Strathairn explains how McDonald's is the kind
0:30:29 > 0:30:35of archetype for globalisation, and now the Mafia has become this
0:30:35 > 0:30:36fully globalised phenomenon.
0:30:36 > 0:30:39Your character has been Anglicised.
0:30:39 > 0:30:41He is a Russian from a pretty dodgy, dangerous Russian family,
0:30:41 > 0:30:44but he is Anglicised, been brought up in Britain,
0:30:44 > 0:30:46and he can't quite ever escape being Russian.
0:30:46 > 0:30:49He has made it his purpose in life to turn his back
0:30:49 > 0:30:53on his family's criminal past, so he has a hedge fund aimed
0:30:53 > 0:30:56at very ethical finance, his girlfriend is in a similar
0:30:56 > 0:30:58world, but he's constantly drawn back to his Russian
0:30:58 > 0:31:02roots and compelled...
0:31:02 > 0:31:05He reads Dostoyevsky before going to sleep and he attends these
0:31:05 > 0:31:07incredibly bizarre systema classes, which is a Russian martial art.
0:31:07 > 0:31:15So at the heart of Alex is a deep conflict about his Russianness.
0:31:15 > 0:31:17It's not your first Russian character, of course,
0:31:17 > 0:31:19because you were Prince Andrei Bolkonsky in War And Peace.
0:31:19 > 0:31:20Yeah.
0:31:20 > 0:31:23How much research, how deeply did you have to research this piece
0:31:23 > 0:31:25to play a convincing Russian in London?
0:31:25 > 0:31:28I've fallen in love with Russia, I think, when we did War And Peace.
0:31:28 > 0:31:30It was a slightly different challenge.
0:31:30 > 0:31:31Do you speak any Russian?
0:31:31 > 0:31:32Nyet.
0:31:32 > 0:31:33No.
0:31:33 > 0:31:36Although my character does, and I had to learn a lot
0:31:36 > 0:31:37of Russian phonetically, because the characters playing,
0:31:37 > 0:31:40the actors playing my mum and dad, Aleksey Serebryakov
0:31:40 > 0:31:42and Mariya Shukshina, are Russian actors and,
0:31:42 > 0:31:46in the story, they speak fluent Russian, so I did have to learn
0:31:46 > 0:31:48quite a lot of Russian.
0:31:48 > 0:31:53I think, when we did War And Peace, we all fell in love.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56We filmed a lot of it in St Petersburg, and it is
0:31:56 > 0:31:57an extraordinary country.
0:31:57 > 0:32:00Do you think, at the moment, we are right to fear Russia?
0:32:00 > 0:32:03A lot of the organised crime and the mobs have originated
0:32:03 > 0:32:06from the fall of the Soviet Union around Russia and the Baltic states.
0:32:06 > 0:32:09Having said that, I think the whole point of the show is it tells
0:32:09 > 0:32:12the story of how the Mafia is now fully globalised and,
0:32:12 > 0:32:15whilst there are, of course, problems of corruption in Russia,
0:32:15 > 0:32:19we have a lot on our own doorstep.
0:32:19 > 0:32:21London is riddled with corruption.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24There's a little bit of don't be beastly to the Russians,
0:32:24 > 0:32:26because your character wants to go straight and, if we didn't
0:32:26 > 0:32:28treat him as a Russian, and therefore as automatically
0:32:28 > 0:32:31dangerous, automatically dodgy, believe all the stuff that's written
0:32:31 > 0:32:33about him because he's Russian, he might have been
0:32:33 > 0:32:35a very different person.
0:32:35 > 0:32:36Absolutely.
0:32:36 > 0:32:39I think he is a perfect example of someone who is carrying this
0:32:39 > 0:32:40almost burden of being Russian.
0:32:40 > 0:32:43He's constantly trying to establish himself in London as a British man,
0:32:43 > 0:32:50but his Russianness keeps catching up with him, and it's a real curse,
0:32:50 > 0:32:55a taint, and it shouldn't be.
0:32:55 > 0:32:57I've watched the first tranche of all of this,
0:32:57 > 0:32:59and I'm still not absolutely sure whether you are a hero
0:32:59 > 0:33:00or villain yet.
0:33:00 > 0:33:03I'm sure it will become apparent in the end.
0:33:03 > 0:33:05One person who is certainly a villain is Tommy Lee Royce
0:33:05 > 0:33:07from Happy Valley - still alive, still
0:33:07 > 0:33:08festering in prison.
0:33:08 > 0:33:09Seething.
0:33:09 > 0:33:11Yeah, he's still alive, and I think hopefully we're
0:33:11 > 0:33:15going to see Tommy again once more.
0:33:15 > 0:33:16Sally...
0:33:16 > 0:33:17So Happy Valley is coming back.
0:33:17 > 0:33:19Well, I think so, I hope so.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22Sally has promised that she wants to write a third series,
0:33:22 > 0:33:25and I think Sarah and I and most of the cast would jump
0:33:25 > 0:33:26at the opportunity.
0:33:26 > 0:33:27Absolutely.
0:33:27 > 0:33:29We will see Tommy once more, I think.
0:33:29 > 0:33:32You are a well spoken, nice boy, well-dressed.
0:33:32 > 0:33:35Tommy Lee Royce, with the shaved head and tattoos and so on,
0:33:35 > 0:33:37how different did it feel being inside that skin?
0:33:37 > 0:33:39It's very different.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42It made me very grateful for my life.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45He has such a sad view of the world.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48He sees everything and everyone as hostile, so it's very much a dog
0:33:48 > 0:33:49eat dog world for him.
0:33:49 > 0:33:52When you read all the stuff about James Bond, do you just snort
0:33:52 > 0:33:54or are you quite pleased?
0:33:54 > 0:33:58I'm very pleased that Daniel Craig is doing two more.
0:33:58 > 0:34:02Very diplomatic, but it's something that presumably you'd love to do,
0:34:02 > 0:34:03if you got the chance?
0:34:03 > 0:34:07You know what, it's such an iconic role, and it's very,
0:34:07 > 0:34:09very flattering and bizarre and humbling to be even
0:34:09 > 0:34:11in that conversation.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14From McMafia, we know that you wear a dinner jacket well, so that's
0:34:14 > 0:34:16possibly the most important thing.
0:34:16 > 0:34:17Thanks.
0:34:17 > 0:34:19Thank you very much for talking to us.
0:34:19 > 0:34:20Cheers.
0:34:20 > 0:34:27Thanks, Andrew.
0:34:27 > 0:34:29And you can also see James Norton in Belleville,
0:34:29 > 0:34:33a new play at the Donmar Warehouse in London, until the 3rd February.
0:34:33 > 0:34:36Now, Christmas is only a few days away, everybody's got bills to pay
0:34:36 > 0:34:37and, with benefits frozen and inflation rising,
0:34:37 > 0:34:39things are tough out there.
0:34:39 > 0:34:41If you're struggling to make ends meet, there is no Cabinet minister
0:34:41 > 0:34:44more important than David Gauke, the man in charge of welfare.
0:34:44 > 0:34:51He joins me now.
0:34:51 > 0:34:54Let me start with this single easiest question I've asked anybody
0:34:54 > 0:35:04this year, how long have you been in power?We've been in power since
0:35:04 > 0:35:072010, in coalition, obviously... Correct. The reason I ask that is,
0:35:07 > 0:35:11when I talk to your colleagues about housing and mental health and they
0:35:11 > 0:35:15get offended by the state of things, almost as if you are not responsible
0:35:15 > 0:35:19for what's going on at the moment, but you are. And you also accept
0:35:19 > 0:35:23that you are the man in charge of the safety net for people at the
0:35:23 > 0:35:28bottom of the heap.Yes, a huge task, and it's a privilege to
0:35:28 > 0:35:31perform this role. There are aspects of the welfare state that come
0:35:31 > 0:35:36together, so we worked together on issues of housing and mental health
0:35:36 > 0:35:39and so on, and it's important we work together as a government but,
0:35:39 > 0:35:45when it comes to benefits, that's me.When it comes to the number of
0:35:45 > 0:35:50people sleeping rough tonight in England, how many people are there,
0:35:50 > 0:35:55roughly speaking, sleeping rough, and what has happened to that figure
0:35:55 > 0:35:59since you came to power?Rough sleeping has gone up, I can't give
0:35:59 > 0:36:02you a number. As a government, we are committed to bringing back down.
0:36:02 > 0:36:12We want to halve it by 2022 and eliminate it 2027.Is gone up 134%
0:36:12 > 0:36:17on your watch.And we need to bring that down. For example, we've got a
0:36:17 > 0:36:22Homelessness Reduction Act, which we have passed, a private members bill
0:36:22 > 0:36:25with the government backing, which is about trying to deal with this
0:36:25 > 0:36:30upstream. It is why we will be spending £1 billion between now and
0:36:30 > 0:36:362020 on this.A problem that's been created on your watch. The last
0:36:36 > 0:36:38Labour government almost eliminated rough sleeping, and it's gone
0:36:38 > 0:36:44shooting up. 4000 people rough sleeping and that is only part of
0:36:44 > 0:36:48homelessness. Compared with 2010, what about the number of children in
0:36:48 > 0:36:53temporary accommodation because their families are homeless?I
0:36:53 > 0:37:00accept that also has gone up.It's gone up 17% under the Conservatives.
0:37:00 > 0:37:04To address it, we are spending £1 billion over the next three years on
0:37:04 > 0:37:14this. We have got plans to, as I say, eliminate homelessness by 2027.
0:37:14 > 0:37:18When it comes to children, we have actually seen a fall in the number
0:37:18 > 0:37:23of children in absolute poverty since 2010 and a fall of 200,000. It
0:37:23 > 0:37:28comes to temporary accommodation changes in the budget last month in
0:37:28 > 0:37:32terms of how temporary accommodation works, which I think the game is a
0:37:32 > 0:37:38sensible change, I accept there is much we still need to do, but the
0:37:38 > 0:37:43fact is that we are seeing fewer children in workless households,
0:37:43 > 0:37:49fewer children in absolute poverty than in 2010.Do you accept the
0:37:49 > 0:37:53Public Accounts Committee, a senior committee of MPs, saying that part
0:37:53 > 0:37:55of the reason for increasing homelessness and rough sleeping is
0:37:55 > 0:38:00connected to the sanctions regime you are in charge of as Universal
0:38:00 > 0:38:03Credit rolls out.I think you are bringing together a number of
0:38:03 > 0:38:07things. When it comes to the sanctions regime, we have seen fewer
0:38:07 > 0:38:14sanctions over 2017 then we did in 2016 and 2015, so the number of
0:38:14 > 0:38:20sanctions is coming down.This is the Public Accounts Committee in
0:38:20 > 0:38:25February, sanctions have increased in severity in recent years and can
0:38:25 > 0:38:29have serious consequences, such as debt, rent arrears and homelessness.
0:38:29 > 0:38:33Are they wrong?It is the case that in the last couple of years the
0:38:33 > 0:38:37number of sanctions have fallen, but let's remember that we have a
0:38:37 > 0:38:41welfare system that is based on conditionality, and rightly so full
0:38:41 > 0:38:44you pay money to people but there are certain conditions in place. We
0:38:44 > 0:38:50expect people to comply with those conditions. In some cases, where
0:38:50 > 0:38:53those conditions are not met, it is appropriate to have a sanction. You
0:38:53 > 0:38:58don't have sanctions, you don't have conditions, and you don't change
0:38:58 > 0:39:02behaviour. We've got to put this in context where we have got 3 million
0:39:02 > 0:39:07more people in work than in 2010, and part of that is because we have
0:39:07 > 0:39:15a benefits regime...Which is more aggressive. And it affects people's
0:39:15 > 0:39:19mental health and their homelessness as well.It does place more
0:39:19 > 0:39:24conditions on people, and one reason why I think we've got higher levels
0:39:24 > 0:39:28of employment is because we place conditions on people. That changes
0:39:28 > 0:39:32people and helps people get into work. That isn't to say that there
0:39:32 > 0:39:37are not hard cases and cases where we get it wrong, and we want to work
0:39:37 > 0:39:40hard to eliminate that. But I'd defend the principle of saying,
0:39:40 > 0:39:44look, if we're going to give money to people to lift people out of
0:39:44 > 0:39:48poverty on a sustainable basis, it's not just about giving them money,
0:39:48 > 0:39:52it's about saying, what can we do and what can you do to get you...I
0:39:52 > 0:39:56am sure you don't get up in the morning and think, how can I make
0:39:56 > 0:39:59them have a mental breakdown or become homeless and the rest of it,
0:39:59 > 0:40:03but perhaps part of the problem is that your department doesn't know
0:40:03 > 0:40:07much about the effect of the sanctions you are in charge of an
0:40:07 > 0:40:09actual people. The National Audit Office and Public Accounts Committee
0:40:09 > 0:40:13have criticised your department for not knowing enough about the effect
0:40:13 > 0:40:20of sanctions in the real world.We are always looking to know more and
0:40:20 > 0:40:23learn more and have an understanding of all that we do, but I come back
0:40:23 > 0:40:27to the point about having a benefits system that is designed to get
0:40:27 > 0:40:31people into work, and on the subject of mental health, and this is a
0:40:31 > 0:40:35sensitive point, and I'm not going to pretend for one moment that we
0:40:35 > 0:40:38have always got this right in every individual case, but we do know that
0:40:38 > 0:40:45getting people into work, giving people the benefit of working, the
0:40:45 > 0:40:48structure that provides, the self-esteem that provides, work can
0:40:48 > 0:40:53really help mental health as well, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57This is an argument where the professionals are on the other side.
0:40:57 > 0:41:00The British psychological association and all the other
0:41:00 > 0:41:03psychological societies wrote to the press and said they were immediately
0:41:03 > 0:41:07calling you to suspend the benefits sanctions system, and there is
0:41:07 > 0:41:10evidence for that linking to increased rates of mental health
0:41:10 > 0:41:12problems, and vulnerable people's multiple needs are being
0:41:12 > 0:41:18disproportionately affected.I think the task for us is to ensure we have
0:41:18 > 0:41:24an increasingly personalised welfare state, a system that properly
0:41:24 > 0:41:27understands the circumstances that individuals are in, and that is a
0:41:27 > 0:41:33challenge for us, and I fully accept that. But the idea of walking away
0:41:33 > 0:41:35from conditionality within the defence system, which is what those
0:41:35 > 0:41:41who advocate those sanctions are advocating, would not only be unfair
0:41:41 > 0:41:46to the but compared to a lot of claimants, because it's that
0:41:46 > 0:41:50conditionality that helps to change behaviour and get people into work.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53Part of the problem you have inherited is that so many of the
0:41:53 > 0:41:58cuts made to work allowances have been baked into the Universal Credit
0:41:58 > 0:42:00system, and therefore you are cutting the overall amount of money
0:42:00 > 0:42:04for people on welfare at the moment by about £3 billion, and everybody
0:42:04 > 0:42:08seems to agree with that figure. At the beginning, when Universal Credit
0:42:08 > 0:42:12was announced in 2010, your department said it would lift
0:42:12 > 0:42:18350,000 children out of poverty but we can talk about child poverty but
0:42:18 > 0:42:23a few years later, it dropped to 150,000.It's difficult to make an
0:42:23 > 0:42:28assessment at the moment, but Universal Credit is important here.
0:42:28 > 0:42:32What Universal Credit will do is help to get more people into work.
0:42:32 > 0:42:36You made the assessment in 2010 and 2014, and you are not revealing a
0:42:36 > 0:42:39number now, because the truth is the way you are in committing this
0:42:39 > 0:42:45system is you are going to put more children into poverty, not fewer. --
0:42:45 > 0:42:49the way you are implementing this system for theif you look at our
0:42:49 > 0:42:55record...It's true, isn't it?We have lifted more children out of
0:42:55 > 0:42:58absolute poverty, and the fact remains that Universal Credit is
0:42:58 > 0:43:04already a very effective means by which we can get more people into
0:43:04 > 0:43:06work and more people in work progressing in work. That's the best
0:43:06 > 0:43:12way of lifting people...I'm going to weed out the well-known Marxist
0:43:12 > 0:43:16agitator group, the Institute for Fiscal Studies at the struggle to
0:43:16 > 0:43:23reach out and to a man and woman. The government should not be
0:43:23 > 0:43:31surprised if absolute child poverty rises.Every region is predicting a
0:43:31 > 0:43:35rise in child poverty and around three quarters of that increase,
0:43:35 > 0:43:38400,000 children is attributable to benefit changes.I have made the
0:43:38 > 0:43:43point that the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a fine organisation, but it
0:43:43 > 0:43:45has been increasing increases in child poverty. Years which hasn't
0:43:45 > 0:43:52happened. Why has that not happened? We have got an economy created on
0:43:52 > 0:43:58jobs and, in particular, pay at the lower end has risen faster than
0:43:58 > 0:44:05elsewhere. It is why income inequality has fallen in the last
0:44:05 > 0:44:09seven years and, in order to address this issue of child poverty, what is
0:44:09 > 0:44:13absolutely key is we continue to have a job-creating economy and we
0:44:13 > 0:44:17see pay rising at the bottom end. That is what has happened over the
0:44:17 > 0:44:22last seven years and what we need to continue to see.People can make
0:44:22 > 0:44:26their judgments about that, but let me ask you about auto enrolment in
0:44:26 > 0:44:29pensions for 900,000 youngish people are being automatically enrolled
0:44:29 > 0:44:38into pension schemes and white?What we have seen over the last few
0:44:38 > 0:44:41years, is much greater saving for pensions. -- automatically enrolled
0:44:41 > 0:44:48into pension schemes, so why? We are seeing increases would we want to
0:44:48 > 0:44:55extend that benefit to people under the age of 2218-year-old...We are
0:44:55 > 0:45:01lowering that to 18, that the we are making today. That, I think, will
0:45:01 > 0:45:04get more people into the habit of saving and it will mean younger
0:45:04 > 0:45:08people will be saving for extra years, so that'll be significant
0:45:08 > 0:45:13when it comes to their retirement, and so extending the benefit of auto
0:45:13 > 0:45:16enrolment, which I think everybody agrees has been a huge success, is
0:45:16 > 0:45:22an important next step. Over the next couple of years, we will see
0:45:22 > 0:45:26increases in contribution rates. That might put people off.The
0:45:26 > 0:45:31challenge is to get the balance right. We believe the next years,
0:45:31 > 0:45:33the increase in contribution rates for employers and employees strike
0:45:33 > 0:45:39that balance. The evidence so far is that the opt out rates of auto
0:45:39 > 0:45:44enrolment have been lower than people expected, and in particular
0:45:44 > 0:45:49for younger people, so people in their 20s have been saving more than
0:45:49 > 0:45:50anybody expected. That's encouraging, and that builds on that
0:45:50 > 0:45:56success.This week, you sit around the Cabinet table with the Prime
0:45:56 > 0:46:00Minister and she asked each one of you, David, are you a con verger or
0:46:00 > 0:46:06a diverter?My view is that the British people make a decision...
0:46:06 > 0:46:10It's more complex than that. I think, as the Prime Minister has
0:46:10 > 0:46:15rightly said, we are not looking for an arrangement so that essentially
0:46:15 > 0:46:20it is continuity as far as the end state is concerned. But it is also
0:46:20 > 0:46:25important that we maximise our access to the European markets,
0:46:25 > 0:46:33really important.Eating cake, still have cake.We are going to have a
0:46:33 > 0:46:37negotiation and my view is we need to get the right result for the UK.
0:46:37 > 0:46:40I think Theresa May is the right person to deliver that.Thank you
0:46:40 > 0:46:42for talking to us.
0:46:42 > 0:46:46Well, as I said at the top of the show, it's been quite a year.
0:46:46 > 0:46:48This is the moment when we look back over
0:46:48 > 0:46:51the highlights and low moments, but here and now we can do it
0:46:51 > 0:46:53entirely through the prism of Sunday mornings, music and all.
0:47:00 > 0:47:02Politics remains turbulent.
0:47:02 > 0:47:06Theresa May seems almost unchallenged.
0:47:08 > 0:47:10That story about misfiring nuclear missile, did you know that
0:47:10 > 0:47:12misfire had occurred?
0:47:12 > 0:47:14I have absolute faith in our Trident missiles.
0:47:14 > 0:47:16Prime Minister, did you know?
0:47:16 > 0:47:19There were tests that take place all the time.
0:47:19 > 0:47:24I'm not going to get an answer to this.
0:47:24 > 0:47:27# Just pack our bags and run as fast as we can... #.
0:47:27 > 0:47:29Brexit tensions are bubbling...
0:47:29 > 0:47:32We want to negotiate a good deal with the European Union.
0:47:32 > 0:47:35She appears to be heading us in the direction of a sort
0:47:35 > 0:47:37of bargain basement economy on the shores of Europe.
0:47:37 > 0:47:40I'm not going to sit back while Scotland is driven off
0:47:40 > 0:47:43a hard Brexit cliff edge.
0:47:43 > 0:47:49# When I heard that sound # When the walls came down
0:47:49 > 0:47:51# I was thinking about you...#
0:47:51 > 0:47:53Kenneth Brown has said he cast
0:47:53 > 0:47:55you because he wanted somebody who could be silent.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58He cast me because he wanted someone to be silent?
0:47:58 > 0:48:00Yes!It's like he never met me at all.
0:48:00 > 0:48:01Do you think hell is real?
0:48:01 > 0:48:03Is hell there?
0:48:03 > 0:48:05Oh, that's a very major question for a Sunday morning...
0:48:05 > 0:48:06Sunday morning question.
0:48:06 > 0:48:10Yes, it's a very Sunday morning question!
0:48:10 > 0:48:11Thanks, Andrew.
0:48:11 > 0:48:14Thank you, man.
0:48:14 > 0:48:17# When the walls were caving in #.
0:48:17 > 0:48:19It's lovely talking to you too, Andrew.
0:48:19 > 0:48:20All the best.
0:48:20 > 0:48:22You're joking!
0:48:22 > 0:48:25Not another one!
0:48:27 > 0:48:30# Oh woman don't treat me so mean #.
0:48:30 > 0:48:33There's a reason to talking about strong and stable
0:48:33 > 0:48:36leadership and having a strong and stable government.
0:48:36 > 0:48:39It's just that people can listen to that kind of thing
0:48:39 > 0:48:40and think it's a bit robotic.
0:48:40 > 0:48:44No, it's, it's...
0:48:44 > 0:48:47Do you think killing the leader of Isis can be helpful
0:48:47 > 0:48:48for a political solution?
0:48:48 > 0:48:51I think the leader of Isis not being around would be helpful
0:48:51 > 0:48:53and I'm no supporter or defender in anyway whatsoever of Isis.
0:48:53 > 0:48:56We all know it's the truth, the Prime Minister is heading
0:48:56 > 0:48:57for a colossal coronation.
0:48:57 > 0:49:00I predict that after this election, Ukip could be bigger
0:49:00 > 0:49:02than it's ever been before.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05# Well I guess if you say so... #.
0:49:05 > 0:49:07Millions of people want answers.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10Time this morning to probe a little further.
0:49:10 > 0:49:12How much does that cost?
0:49:12 > 0:49:15How much money do you intend to borrow for the next ten years?
0:49:15 > 0:49:17Do you regret what you said about the IRA?
0:49:17 > 0:49:21It was 34 years ago, I had a rather splendid afro at the time.
0:49:21 > 0:49:26I don't have the same hairstyle and I don't have the same views.
0:49:26 > 0:49:28The standard says that you should be seen within four hours.
0:49:28 > 0:49:32When was the last time the NHS in England hit that target?
0:49:32 > 0:49:36Well, we haven't hit it for over two years.
0:49:36 > 0:49:37It's not acceptable.
0:49:37 > 0:49:38Are you a Marxist?
0:49:38 > 0:49:39MUMBLES.
0:49:39 > 0:49:41I believe there's a lot to learn...
0:49:41 > 0:49:42Was that a no or yes?
0:49:42 > 0:49:44I couldn't work it out.
0:49:44 > 0:49:45OK, well I'll tell you.
0:49:45 > 0:49:47I believe there's a lot to learn from reading Capital.
0:49:47 > 0:49:49People hate this policy and it makes them very,
0:49:49 > 0:49:50very nervous indeed.
0:49:50 > 0:49:54Is there any chance at all you're going to look at it again?
0:49:54 > 0:49:55No.
0:49:55 > 0:49:57Tonight at ten, Theresa May is forced to backtrack on one
0:49:57 > 0:49:58of her key manifesto pledges.
0:49:58 > 0:49:59Nothing has changed.
0:49:59 > 0:50:00Nothing has changed!
0:50:00 > 0:50:02These are very angry times.
0:50:02 > 0:50:04Is there anything on which we can agree?
0:50:04 > 0:50:10THEY SHOUT OVER EACH OTHER.
0:50:10 > 0:50:13You've just said, for example, that I want to negotiate
0:50:13 > 0:50:15the future of the Falklands.
0:50:15 > 0:50:17That isBLEEP,I did not.
0:50:17 > 0:50:18It's what?
0:50:18 > 0:50:19Say it again, come on!
0:50:19 > 0:50:21That is untrue.
0:50:21 > 0:50:23I want to declare that I'm a feminist, I absolutely believe...
0:50:23 > 0:50:24SNIGGERS.
0:50:24 > 0:50:26I do! I believe completely in women's rights.
0:50:26 > 0:50:28This is your moment on live television to say that
0:50:28 > 0:50:30I will stick by my principles.
0:50:30 > 0:50:32I, Nigel Farage, would not accept this pension.
0:50:32 > 0:50:33Of course I would take it.
0:50:33 > 0:50:35I've said that right from day one.
0:50:35 > 0:50:36You would take it?!
0:50:36 > 0:50:37Well, of course.
0:50:37 > 0:50:39This is the sort of hypocrisy we see...
0:50:39 > 0:50:40It is not...
0:50:40 > 0:50:42I've just voted to get rid of my job.
0:50:42 > 0:50:46I was the turkey that voted for Christmas!
0:51:05 > 0:51:10# Sometimes I feel like throwing my hands up in the air
0:51:10 > 0:51:15# I know I can count on you #.
0:51:15 > 0:51:17We spent so much time talking about the things that
0:51:17 > 0:51:20we disagree with each other on, and we're very bad at actually just
0:51:20 > 0:51:23pausing for second and focusing on those things, those fundamental
0:51:23 > 0:51:26things, that bind us together.
0:51:26 > 0:51:32# The going gets so hard but I know you've got the love,
0:51:32 > 0:51:38# You've got the love # Said you've got the love #.
0:51:39 > 0:51:41The Conservatives are the largest party.
0:51:41 > 0:51:50Note, they don't have an overall majority.
0:51:50 > 0:51:53# We laughed and we roared, we staggered and we fell #.
0:51:53 > 0:51:55Theresa May is a dead woman walking.
0:51:55 > 0:51:58It's just how long she's going to remain on death row.
0:51:58 > 0:51:59I don't agree with that.
0:51:59 > 0:52:01She won the biggest share of the vote since,
0:52:01 > 0:52:02I think, the 1987 election.
0:52:02 > 0:52:04You lost the election, you accept that?
0:52:04 > 0:52:06We didn't win the election.OK!
0:52:06 > 0:52:09If you didn't win it, the Prime Minister was planning
0:52:09 > 0:52:10to sack you, apparently.
0:52:10 > 0:52:12Yes, it's true that my role in the election campaign was not
0:52:12 > 0:52:16the one I would have liked it to be.
0:52:20 > 0:52:23Boris Johnson has lobbed a verbal firework into the Brexit debate.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26Oh, Boris!
0:52:27 > 0:52:30I don't want him managing the Brexit process.
0:52:30 > 0:52:32This is back-seat driving, in effect.
0:52:32 > 0:52:34Yes, you could call it back-seat driving.
0:52:34 > 0:52:36I just don't understand why she hasn't fired him.
0:52:36 > 0:52:37Is he unsackable?
0:52:37 > 0:52:42SHE CHUCKLES. Let's be very clear...
0:52:42 > 0:52:45What happens if we don't get a deal?
0:52:45 > 0:52:48No deal would be a very, very bad outcome for Britain.
0:52:48 > 0:52:50It would be less good than a good deal.
0:52:50 > 0:52:54We can be sure it would be A deal.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59To some, he is the arch defender of the Jewish people.
0:52:59 > 0:53:01To others, he's a bellicose hardliner dedicated to expanding
0:53:01 > 0:53:03the very settlement seen by the Palestinian Arabs
0:53:03 > 0:53:07as their obstacle to peace, and he joins me now.
0:53:07 > 0:53:10Welcome, Prime Minister.
0:53:10 > 0:53:14The good part was shorter than the bad part.
0:53:14 > 0:53:15Thank you for having me, Andrew.
0:53:15 > 0:53:20I'm delighted to be in one of my favourite TV programmes.
0:53:21 > 0:53:27I was shocked and very disappointed, obviously.
0:53:27 > 0:53:32Yes, I did think I was going to win, so did nearly everybody else.
0:53:32 > 0:53:35Do you have any numbers about how much that's going to cost?
0:53:35 > 0:53:37Well Andrew, it's a big abacus that I'm working on.
0:53:37 > 0:53:39You always get more than you have to pay out...
0:53:39 > 0:53:41I was just wanting a number.
0:53:41 > 0:53:42Just one little number!
0:53:42 > 0:53:45You're asking the wrong questions.
0:53:45 > 0:53:46Where are all these unemployed people?
0:53:46 > 0:53:48There are no unemployed people.
0:53:48 > 0:53:52There's 1.4 million unemployed people in this country.
0:53:52 > 0:53:56Is it OK to watch porn at work? Well...
0:53:56 > 0:54:00Can I ask you whether this agreement this week is actually real.
0:54:00 > 0:54:02No, no, it is conditional on an outcome.
0:54:02 > 0:54:04No, I'm afraid that wasn't quite right.
0:54:04 > 0:54:06This was a statement of intent more than anything else.
0:54:06 > 0:54:09It was much more a statement of intent than it was
0:54:09 > 0:54:10a legally enforceable thing.
0:54:10 > 0:54:16# Take a look at my face for the last time
0:54:16 > 0:54:19# I never knew you
0:54:19 > 0:54:25# You never knew me # Say hello goodbye #.
0:54:25 > 0:54:29Then we moved over to fruit cakes and of course the great moment came
0:54:29 > 0:54:31in 2001 when the Queen gave us the most imperial chocolate...
0:54:31 > 0:54:34erm, fruitcake, she gave us.
0:54:34 > 0:54:37Are you going to put a collar back on again now, Archbishop?
0:54:37 > 0:54:40Andrew, I promised that when Mugabe goes, I'd put my collar on so I have
0:54:40 > 0:54:44no choice but to put it back on.
0:54:44 > 0:54:51# Say hello, wave goodbye #.
0:54:54 > 0:54:56And watching that were Tim Shipman, Emma Barnett
0:54:56 > 0:55:04and Rachel Johnson, who have rejoined us.
0:55:04 > 0:55:09Emma, you got the first interview with Theresa May immediately after
0:55:09 > 0:55:14the election result and she was very emotional, were you convinced?We
0:55:14 > 0:55:23talked about what she would do when the exit poll came in, and Rachel
0:55:23 > 0:55:30was telling me some people were texting her with May Day, she says
0:55:30 > 0:55:34she was devastated and I said devastated enough to shed a tear,
0:55:34 > 0:55:40and she did say she cried and had a moment with her husband Philip. I
0:55:40 > 0:55:43was very interested to learn the human reaction of someone when
0:55:43 > 0:55:47they've taken the biggest political gamble of their life.Absolutely,
0:55:47 > 0:55:56what about Boris's, and looking ahead to 2018?Are you looking at
0:55:56 > 0:56:07me?Yes, and I got a very hard stare.I think, as you will read in
0:56:07 > 0:56:10the Sunday Times today, he's brimming with this indelible
0:56:10 > 0:56:17positivity about the future. This is where he wants to take the Cabinet,
0:56:17 > 0:56:22and we will see how that goes next week.Tim, you've written two
0:56:22 > 0:56:25volumes about the extraordinary times we are living in, do you think
0:56:25 > 0:56:32there will be a third on about 2018? I hope not, I promised my wife there
0:56:32 > 0:56:36wouldn't be but watching that gives you post-traumatic stress disorder.
0:56:36 > 0:56:47It would be pretty rash to predict it will be dull in 2018.Emma, what
0:56:47 > 0:56:56do you predict for next year? Theresa May clinging on... We can
0:56:56 > 0:57:00never predict what will happen but I would say we all have to work very
0:57:00 > 0:57:05hard because I do think people, however you voted in the referendum,
0:57:05 > 0:57:10didn't vote to be bought and so to keep Brexit interesting...It's
0:57:10 > 0:57:16jolly hard work! We do our best. Very briefly Rachel, you joined the
0:57:16 > 0:57:20Lib Dems famously, we haven't talked a lot about them, are you committed
0:57:20 > 0:57:26to that cause?The Lib Dems didn't have a stellar year and I think to
0:57:26 > 0:57:29move the question on, one of my predictions for next year is that
0:57:29 > 0:57:35sadly I don't think we will see the emergence of a centre-left party or
0:57:35 > 0:57:39even centre-right party, to occupy this enormous space in the middle
0:57:39 > 0:57:44ground between the two extremes we are now seeing driving politics.And
0:57:44 > 0:57:49that sage thought is the last political commentary from the Andrew
0:57:49 > 0:57:50Marr Show this year.
0:57:50 > 0:57:53Coming up later this morning, Sarah Smith will be
0:57:53 > 0:57:54talking to the outspoken Brexiteer Nadine Dorries
0:57:54 > 0:57:57about what else but the Brexit negotiations, and she'll be talking
0:57:57 > 0:57:59to the rebel's rebel, father of the House
0:57:59 > 0:58:00of Commons Ken Clarke.
0:58:00 > 0:58:03That's the Sunday Politics at 11am here on BBC One.
0:58:03 > 0:58:07That's the end of the show.
0:58:07 > 0:58:10Thanks for watching, and have a really lovely Christmas.
0:58:10 > 0:58:13We leave you with the BBC singers conducted by Andrew Nethsingha.
0:58:13 > 0:58:16This is The Holly And The Ivy.
0:58:16 > 0:58:20See you on the 7th of January in 2018.
0:58:20 > 0:58:25# The holly and the ivy Now both are full well grown
0:58:25 > 0:58:28# Of all the trees that are in the wood
0:58:28 > 0:58:33# The holly bears the crown.
0:58:33 > 0:58:38# Oh, the rising of the sun The running of the deer
0:58:38 > 0:58:47# The playing of the merry organ Sweet singing in the choir
0:58:47 > 0:58:55# The holly bears a blossom as white as lily flower
0:58:55 > 0:59:01# And Mary bore sweet Jesus Christ to be our sweet saviour.
0:59:01 > 0:59:07# Oh, the rising of the sun The running of the deer
0:59:07 > 0:59:17# The playing of the merry organ Sweet singing in the choir
0:59:23 > 0:59:26# The holly bears a bark as bitter as any gall
0:59:26 > 0:59:29# And Mary bore sweet Jesus Christ for to redeem us all
0:59:29 > 0:59:35# Oh, the rising of the sun The running of the deer
0:59:35 > 0:59:45# The playing of the merry organ Sweet singing in the choir
1:00:01 > 1:00:08# Sweet singing in the choir.