0:00:04 > 0:00:07Morning, and welcome to the new political year.
0:00:07 > 0:00:11Politics in this country's become an unpredictable white knuckle ride,
0:00:11 > 0:00:15from the rise of Jeremy Corbyn in 2015 to the Brexit referendum
0:00:15 > 0:00:18the following year and the shock of last year's general election.
0:00:18 > 0:00:22None of this is business as usual.
0:00:22 > 0:00:252018 will be decisive in the argument about how we leave
0:00:25 > 0:00:30the EU but at least we have a "very stable genius" in the White House.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32And he's coming to visit us this year.
0:00:32 > 0:00:40Now, there's something to look forward to.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53My main guest this week, in the first of our New Year
0:00:53 > 0:00:56leaders' interviews, is the Prime Minister, Theresa May.
0:00:56 > 0:01:00I've been talking to her about the NHS winter crisis and,
0:01:00 > 0:01:03in the studio on the same subject, we have the Shadow Health
0:01:03 > 0:01:05Secretary Jonathan Ashworth.
0:01:10 > 0:01:14And still really on the subject of political leadership,
0:01:14 > 0:01:17Kristin Scott Thomas, playing Clementine Churchill,
0:01:17 > 0:01:20and Joe Wright, director of a new film about Winston,
0:01:20 > 0:01:24during the darkest days of the war.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26Let me see your true qualities, your courage.
0:01:26 > 0:01:27My poor judgment.
0:01:27 > 0:01:28Your lack of vanity.
0:01:28 > 0:01:29My iron will.
0:01:29 > 0:01:30Your sense of humour.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32Ho ho ho.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35Plus, in case you need waking up, we will have some great music
0:01:35 > 0:01:37from Franz Ferdinand, back with a new album.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40# Living our lives in paper cages
0:01:40 > 0:01:47# Step out #.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49Before that, here to review the news, two political observers
0:01:49 > 0:01:52who have seen it all before - the editor of the Spectator,
0:01:52 > 0:01:54Fraser Nelson, and the Guardian's Polly Toynbee.
0:01:54 > 0:01:59All of that after the news with Roger Johnson.
0:01:59 > 0:02:00Good morning.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03Theresa May will abandon plans set out in her election manifesto
0:02:03 > 0:02:07for MPs to get a vote on overturning the fox hunting ban.
0:02:07 > 0:02:11In an interview on this programme she confirmed
0:02:11 > 0:02:14she would go back on her pledge, meaning MPs cannot vote
0:02:14 > 0:02:17on the issue until 2022 - when the next general election
0:02:17 > 0:02:18will be held.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23The fox hunting ban was introduced by the Labour government in 2004.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26The Prime Minister is to carry out a cabinet reshuffle tomorrow.
0:02:26 > 0:02:31It's not known yet what changes and appointments Theresa May
0:02:31 > 0:02:34will make, but it's being reported that up to six ministers could
0:02:34 > 0:02:36either lose their jobs or be moved.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38A Downing Street source has described such stories as "pure
0:02:38 > 0:02:41speculation" and "guesswork".
0:02:41 > 0:02:44Some of the UK's largest retailers have voluntarily agreed to stop
0:02:44 > 0:02:47selling acids and corrosive substances to customers
0:02:47 > 0:02:50under 18 years old.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52Thousands of independent hardware shops are also
0:02:52 > 0:02:53expected to follow suit.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56Ministers hope the measure will help stop the rise
0:02:56 > 0:03:00in attacks until new laws are considered by Parliament.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02Plans to create a new "Northern Forest" along a belt
0:03:02 > 0:03:04spanning Manchester, Leeds and Bradford have been
0:03:04 > 0:03:08announced by the government.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10It will see new woods planted near towns and river
0:03:10 > 0:03:12valleys liable to flooding.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15The Woodland Trust is running the project and will raise most
0:03:15 > 0:03:17of the £500 million it is expected to cost
0:03:17 > 0:03:21over the next 25 years.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24And we'll have more details on that later in the programme.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26Germany's Christian Democrats - led by the Chancellor,
0:03:26 > 0:03:32Angela Merkel - will begin five days of exploratory talks today
0:03:32 > 0:03:34on forming a coalition government with the Social Democrats.
0:03:34 > 0:03:36Mrs Merkel has been trying to build
0:03:36 > 0:03:39a new coalition since September - after her party lost more than 60
0:03:39 > 0:03:42seats in the parliamentary elections.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44Nasa's longest serving astronaut, John Young,
0:03:44 > 0:03:48has died at the age of 87.
0:03:48 > 0:03:52He was one of just 12 men who have walked on the moon -
0:03:52 > 0:03:54and he flew the first space shuttle mission.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57Former Commander of the International Space Station
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Chris Hadfield has described him as an inspiration.
0:04:00 > 0:04:01That's all from me.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10Thank you.
0:04:10 > 0:04:15Lots to talk about on the front pages and almost every paper has a
0:04:15 > 0:04:17different story. The Sunday Telegraph is going with the
0:04:17 > 0:04:21reshuffle, choral Justine Greening in the headlines. The Sunday Times
0:04:21 > 0:04:25has its own investigation into Google and how they are using drug
0:04:25 > 0:04:32addicts who are looking for help to sell the help on. There is a war
0:04:32 > 0:04:39going on between the paper press and the online organisations. There is
0:04:39 > 0:04:41the very stable genius himself, glaring from the front page of the
0:04:41 > 0:04:46Observer. The Mail on Sunday, the Prime Minister is disgusted about
0:04:46 > 0:04:51the Toby Young tweeting story but is going to keep him. Amber Sunday
0:04:51 > 0:04:55Express, the Prime Minister is serious about the John Worboys rape
0:04:55 > 0:04:58story. Those two stories in the interview I've done with and lots
0:04:58 > 0:05:03more to talk about there but we are going to start, Fraser, with the big
0:05:03 > 0:05:06politics today, we don't really know the details but we know there is
0:05:06 > 0:05:09going to be a reshuffle and probably quite a big one tomorrow and
0:05:09 > 0:05:14Tuesday.Since the election be established wisdom was that Theresa
0:05:14 > 0:05:17May was not strong enough to do a reshuffle, that she was more a
0:05:17 > 0:05:22prisoner of her cabinet than the architect of it but now it is said
0:05:22 > 0:05:26she is going to move at least six cabinet members tomorrow.We have to
0:05:26 > 0:05:31have a huge grain of salt about these stories because Number Ten are
0:05:31 > 0:05:34not briefing who's going to go and stay but the suggestion is that all
0:05:34 > 0:05:37the big beasts stay, so Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, the
0:05:37 > 0:05:41Chancellor Philip Hammond, are likely to stay in post will be the
0:05:41 > 0:05:45more junior Cabinet ministers. Anyone who anyone has ever heard was
0:05:45 > 0:05:49going to stay in place. I think this will be a reshuffle of absolute
0:05:49 > 0:05:55insignificance. People like us will mull over it endlessly on it is a
0:05:55 > 0:05:57Westminster bubble story. Most people can't name Cabinet ministers
0:05:57 > 0:06:03anyway. And poor Justine Greening if for the chop, who knows? Her problem
0:06:03 > 0:06:07is that the Treasury has cut the money for schools and the Tory head
0:06:07 > 0:06:11office discovered in their analysis of the election that this was very
0:06:11 > 0:06:14important, that parents have got the message at the school gates during
0:06:14 > 0:06:18the election campaign, that they were losing teachers and losing
0:06:18 > 0:06:23teaching assistants.Fraser, if this is insignificant for most members of
0:06:23 > 0:06:27the public, why is she doing it?I don't think it is insignificant. I
0:06:27 > 0:06:33think she emerges this year being that a stronger place than any point
0:06:33 > 0:06:38since the general election. She has walked through fire and the upsets
0:06:38 > 0:06:44she has been through in the last four months. She is now able to
0:06:44 > 0:06:49mould the cabinet in a way she was seen as too weak to do but no normal
0:06:49 > 0:06:52person can me more than five owners of the Cabinet, which is always the
0:06:52 > 0:06:54case in British politics, but the Prime Minister is willing to take
0:06:54 > 0:07:02control.She dare not move Boris, a disaster, David Davis, who has been
0:07:02 > 0:07:08sidelined, a hollowed out job. She is very stuck with balancing
0:07:08 > 0:07:14Brexiteers... She has got the pro Brexit and
0:07:14 > 0:07:21Brexit sceptic groups balance.If the suggestion is that she brings in
0:07:21 > 0:07:24Suella Fernandes, a rabid Brexit person, she's going to have to bring
0:07:24 > 0:07:28in some strong remainder after we have lost Damian Green, a very
0:07:28 > 0:07:32strong remain it.Talking about political balance and appointments,
0:07:32 > 0:07:35the other big story people have been fascinated by is Toby Young, wanna
0:07:35 > 0:07:39Fraser Nelson's columnists, so I'm going to go to Poly first because
0:07:39 > 0:07:44there was a big story about him in the Mail on Sunday.Yet more
0:07:44 > 0:07:57absolutely disgusted jokes, this one too obscene to mention at this
0:07:59 > 0:08:01hour of the morning. A shame in a way because it is so graphically
0:08:01 > 0:08:04disgusting that it proves that as a character he is unsuited to any kind
0:08:04 > 0:08:08of official post. If you want to be a columnist, fine. He is rising 50.
0:08:08 > 0:08:14They were some years ago. Should there not be a statute of
0:08:14 > 0:08:18limitations?He was rising 50 and has made a reputation of being a
0:08:18 > 0:08:21wild controversial... He was supposed to be here today but I
0:08:21 > 0:08:27think either he was Fritz or he was so busy with his fingers does or
0:08:27 > 0:08:36stood -- exhausted.These are historic Tantobie has set up Free
0:08:36 > 0:08:40Schools. He is a journalist like you eat it up the difference between him
0:08:40 > 0:08:45and us is that he actually went out there to improve the situation...He
0:08:45 > 0:08:49wanted to create a school for his kids.Better than sending them
0:08:49 > 0:08:55private, as some columnists I could mention. He set it up for 2000 other
0:08:55 > 0:08:58children as well as his kids. Is devoted himself to education reform
0:08:58 > 0:09:02and I can't work out why something he wrote after a glass wine eight
0:09:02 > 0:09:06years ago should define him more than what he does his life.The
0:09:06 > 0:09:10point is, his stock in trade has always been to be shocking and
0:09:10 > 0:09:17disgusting and things like eugenics, he believes that the poor should
0:09:17 > 0:09:21have their embryos screened to weed out the stupid. He believes we live
0:09:21 > 0:09:24in a meritocracy. He believes those at the top are there genetically.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28One of the things about Toby Young is that people talk about him whole
0:09:28 > 0:09:31time and should be talking about more important subjects so let's
0:09:31 > 0:09:40move on. I think this is the MHS crisis.We are in the traditional
0:09:40 > 0:09:45January what shall we do with the NHS? Various columnists are writing.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48A columnist in the Telegraph says the solution is quite obvious, you
0:09:48 > 0:09:54need to harness other forms of finance from outside. If people are
0:09:54 > 0:09:58willing to pay for the NHS... I can't work out why I should receive
0:09:58 > 0:10:02free GP appointments when I can and would willingly pay for it... She
0:10:02 > 0:10:05says this is the obvious solution but if ministers think this is
0:10:05 > 0:10:09politically impossible, you are going to have to see a radical
0:10:09 > 0:10:12shake-up.Maurice Saatchi in the Mail on Sunday says there should be
0:10:12 > 0:10:16a Royal commission to persuade both parties that we need a different
0:10:16 > 0:10:20kind of funding.That always means going the American route, some form
0:10:20 > 0:10:24of insurance. That is what Janet Davies after. They talk about new
0:10:24 > 0:10:29funding coming in from private sources, they mean people being
0:10:29 > 0:10:33copayments that all of that and this always happens, the moment that the
0:10:33 > 0:10:37Tory party hits the buffers, which they always do for underfunding the
0:10:37 > 0:10:42NHS. It becomes an excuse for saying, it doesn't work. When Labour
0:10:42 > 0:10:45got up to European standards of spending, the same numbers of
0:10:45 > 0:10:50doctors, beds, nurses, it did fine. It has fallen back on funding and is
0:10:50 > 0:10:55now in crisis. That gives the excuse to all of you Tories. But bring it
0:10:55 > 0:11:00on because it would...It means more money, the question is who can come
0:11:00 > 0:11:03up with it either of those who can afford to pay should be asked to
0:11:03 > 0:11:07pay.The public will not be on your side, it will be the quickest route
0:11:07 > 0:11:12out of power for the Tories.Camilla Cavendish?She knows about it
0:11:12 > 0:11:16because she has worked in NHS policy and she says, yes, it definitely
0:11:16 > 0:11:21needs more money to talk she is a Tory whip the Cameron's policy unit,
0:11:21 > 0:11:25says it definitely needs more money and she also says it has been
0:11:25 > 0:11:28fragmented in ways that makes no sense for a patient tried to find
0:11:28 > 0:11:33their way through, partly because of the 2012 disastrous Lansley at that
0:11:33 > 0:11:38further blew it apart. At the moment, the head of the NHS in
0:11:38 > 0:11:41England is struggling to reunite it and she supports that and I think
0:11:41 > 0:11:46she is right.Another story that has gripped people is the so-called
0:11:46 > 0:11:51black cab rapist John Worboys being let out of prison. There was an
0:11:51 > 0:11:54editorial in the Sunday Telegraph or the Sunday Times?The Sunday
0:11:54 > 0:11:57Telegraph and it says we are going to find out quite soon why he was
0:11:57 > 0:12:02let out. There was a bit of mystery. Legally we are not supposed to know.
0:12:02 > 0:12:06Was going to be a change because it is so baffling, when his victims at
0:12:06 > 0:12:10the time were told there was no way he would come out, it is worth a
0:12:10 > 0:12:13life sentence, and all of a submitters changed and they are
0:12:13 > 0:12:20going to get answers. The Sunday Telegraph also says at the end,
0:12:20 > 0:12:23given that he was only prosecuted for a small numbers of the victims
0:12:23 > 0:12:27the police associate for him, perhaps it can be prosecuted again
0:12:27 > 0:12:31for those. There was a chance it could be read right.There was a
0:12:31 > 0:12:35broad hint on that subject from the Prime Minister in the interview we
0:12:35 > 0:12:40are going to be showing in a minute. You have a tablet, we call them
0:12:40 > 0:12:45these days, not anything else, from the independent.Yet another story.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49You don't find these a lot of the Tory papers but you find yet another
0:12:49 > 0:12:57Brexit story. 2300 EU academics are resigning from some of our leading
0:12:57 > 0:13:00universities, Oxford, King's College London more than anywhere else,
0:13:00 > 0:13:07warnings over UK University Brexiters. We rely on tides
0:13:07 > 0:13:10everywhere for research, from everything. Bad has been one of the
0:13:10 > 0:13:16great successes of the EU, melding and uniting research project. 2300
0:13:16 > 0:13:21leave, and 19% increase, that is pretty alarming.There was a line
0:13:21 > 0:13:24over here saying, Oxford has lost record numbers but has also gained
0:13:24 > 0:13:29record numbers, so that's the thing. EU nationals have always gone home.
0:13:29 > 0:13:36The question is, do even more arrive?19%.We have run out of time
0:13:36 > 0:13:40and I would like to move on from EU to the US and this extraordinary
0:13:40 > 0:13:44Trump story, a good old-fashioned book, an old-fashioned reporter
0:13:44 > 0:13:48sitting in a corridor taking notes, has blown everyone away for days
0:13:48 > 0:13:53now. The Mail on Sunday has an interesting splash.If even a
0:13:53 > 0:13:55fraction of the stories in this extraordinary book turned out to be
0:13:55 > 0:14:02true, I think Trump is in real trouble.And we get Mike Pence?We
0:14:02 > 0:14:08get Mike Pence, which is wonderful. His base is very solid but it is too
0:14:08 > 0:14:13small. Here we are that the Royals are being dragged into this, that he
0:14:13 > 0:14:18wants a trade deal... He won't give a trade deal to us unless he gets an
0:14:18 > 0:14:23invitation to Harry's wedding.The other thing the book tells us is
0:14:23 > 0:14:27that he likes to sit in his bed at 6:30pm with a cheeseburger in front
0:14:27 > 0:14:33of three screens.Wonderfully, the Sun is offering its readers the
0:14:33 > 0:14:37chance to do that, win a chance to be the president fluoridated top if
0:14:37 > 0:14:41you are the lucky winner, the Sun will book you into a hotel...You
0:14:41 > 0:14:48have to go to bed at 6:30pm like him.And it shows one screen but I
0:14:48 > 0:14:52hope you get three. It is nice to think anyone in this country can
0:14:52 > 0:14:56experience this.The really difficult quiz that you have to
0:14:56 > 0:14:59answer correctly to win these cheeseburgers is, what is the name
0:14:59 > 0:15:08of Trump's wife, Melania, Doris or Peggy?Answers on a postcard!Thank
0:15:08 > 0:15:12you both very much indeed.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15And so to the weather, and there's only one consolation
0:15:15 > 0:15:18as you get up and freeze this morning - at least you're not living
0:15:18 > 0:15:20in the United States, where it's been snowing
0:15:20 > 0:15:21even in the Deep South.
0:15:21 > 0:15:21even in the Deep South.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25Over to Stav Danaos in the weather studio.
0:15:25 > 0:15:30Yes indeed, it's been bitterly cold there. We have our own Arctic blast
0:15:30 > 0:15:35this week but if you don't mind the cold it has been glorious with
0:15:35 > 0:15:38plenty of sunshine around. There is a keen breeze across the south and
0:15:38 > 0:15:43south-east, that will make it feel quite raw and bitter. Outbreaks of
0:15:43 > 0:15:47rain affecting the Northern Isles, particularly for Shetland, but
0:15:47 > 0:15:51elsewhere it is dry with temperatures barely getting above
0:15:51 > 0:15:56freezing in parts of Scotland. High pressure still with us overnight,
0:15:56 > 0:15:59there will be light winds across central and northern areas with a
0:15:59 > 0:16:03widespread frost forming once again. More of a breeze further south and
0:16:03 > 0:16:07that will introduce more cloud across southern counties. Less cold
0:16:07 > 0:16:16here, very cold further north. We start the new working week on a cold
0:16:16 > 0:16:18and frosty note once again. The cloud in the south will continue to
0:16:18 > 0:16:22creep northwards, a few spots of drizzle in places so quite grey and
0:16:22 > 0:16:26cold here but glorious sunshine further north. Into Tuesday cloudy
0:16:26 > 0:16:35picture the north and a weather front arriving across the west will
0:16:35 > 0:16:38introduce outbreaks of rain, eventually turning
0:16:38 > 0:16:41introduce outbreaks of rain, eventually turning milder too.More
0:16:41 > 0:16:45cobalt blue over Britain than I have seen for a long time.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48Gary Oldman is a hot favourite for Oscar glory this year.
0:16:48 > 0:16:49His mesmerising performance as Winston Churchill
0:16:49 > 0:16:52in Darkest Hour is a triumph of both acting and
0:16:52 > 0:16:53physical transformation.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55Oldman is well matched by Kristin Scott Thomas,
0:16:55 > 0:16:57who plays Clemmie Churchill, a vital ally to her husband
0:16:57 > 0:16:59throughout the war.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02Recently, I caught up with Kristin and the film's director, Joe Wright,
0:17:02 > 0:17:03who began by explaining what compelled him
0:17:03 > 0:17:08to make this movie.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11We are looking at a collapse of Western Europe in the next few days.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13You ask what is our aim.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16Victory at all costs.
0:17:16 > 0:17:17You are suggesting we are somehow winning.
0:17:17 > 0:17:21We're not.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24Is it true we're in full retreat?
0:17:24 > 0:17:26All our forces are now in Dunkirk, where we cannot reach them.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30They are pushing us into the sea.
0:17:30 > 0:17:38I tried to make something that was inherently cinematic
0:17:38 > 0:17:41that kind of played like a political thriller really, and so had that
0:17:41 > 0:17:44kind of pace and that kind of rhythm, and had
0:17:44 > 0:17:45the highest stakes possible.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Kristin, you have said you were asked to play
0:17:47 > 0:17:49Clemmie Churchill before, presumably because you look quite
0:17:49 > 0:17:53like her, particularly when you've got that extraordinary hair on.
0:17:53 > 0:18:00She had a very particular hairstyle, which she became famous
0:18:00 > 0:18:03for with the curly bits on top, and I think that was
0:18:03 > 0:18:05inspired by her visits to the factories during the war,
0:18:05 > 0:18:15where all of the girls in the factories would put
0:18:15 > 0:18:18their hair in pin curls and tie up a headscarf on top
0:18:18 > 0:18:21and she thought this was rather good so she would make her own sort
0:18:21 > 0:18:23of her head dresses which became her trademark.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26I knew even then that his priority would be public life,
0:18:26 > 0:18:28but it worried a young girl greatly, this wretched thought
0:18:28 > 0:18:31of eternally coming second, but so it has proven to be.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34And now, today, we are to receive our reward.
0:18:34 > 0:18:40Proof that our small sacrifice was for a far, far greater good.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44I give you your father, my beloved husband,
0:18:44 > 0:18:49the Prime Minister...
0:18:49 > 0:18:50ALL: The Prime Minister!
0:18:50 > 0:18:58Here's to, erm...
0:18:58 > 0:19:06To not beggar-in it up.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09ALL: Not beggar-in it up!
0:19:09 > 0:19:11She is a very, very tough figure as well.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13She understands Churchill, she's a very, I suppose,
0:19:13 > 0:19:16unfashionable figure to be playing because here is a wife who has
0:19:16 > 0:19:18surrendered much of her life for her husband's public role.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20Actually she was incredibly important to him because
0:19:20 > 0:19:21she stood up to him.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23She gave as good as she got.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26She was, as you say, tough.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29She was a brilliant woman - she must have been a brilliant woman
0:19:29 > 0:19:32because otherwise how on earth is Winston Churchill going to bear
0:19:32 > 0:19:34living with somebody who isn't bright enough?
0:19:34 > 0:19:37Absolutely, and the nature of their relationship is based
0:19:37 > 0:19:38on mutual teasing and private jokes.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41I mean, like a lot of upper-class figures in those days,
0:19:41 > 0:19:43they sleep apart but she's touching him and teasing
0:19:43 > 0:19:48him the whole time.
0:19:48 > 0:19:54I think that's what drew me to Joe's film, that sense of humour,
0:19:54 > 0:19:59that sort of wicked twinkle and the unsaid understandings...
0:19:59 > 0:20:01The playfulness and the pick-pick.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04I loved that and it brought them to life, and I think it's very
0:20:04 > 0:20:09important to see that side of Winston Churchill's character.
0:20:09 > 0:20:13I mean we hear all his jokes and his put-downs, but to see that
0:20:13 > 0:20:16in a really tender way, I thought that was really
0:20:16 > 0:20:20interesting to go from that to making these momentous decisions.
0:20:20 > 0:20:22It's your own party to him, you'll have to prove yourself.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25I'm getting the job only because the ship is sinking.
0:20:25 > 0:20:26It's not a gift, it's revenge.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28Let me see your true qualities, your courage.
0:20:28 > 0:20:29My poor judgment.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31Your lack of vanity.
0:20:31 > 0:20:32My iron will.
0:20:32 > 0:20:33Your sense of humour.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35Ho-ho-ho.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38Do you think it's true to say that without Clemmie behind him,
0:20:38 > 0:20:40Winston Churchill could not have done what he did?
0:20:40 > 0:20:42I think he would've been a very different person,
0:20:42 > 0:20:47and I think that together they really supported each other.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49They both suffered from depression and Winston Churchill's depression
0:20:49 > 0:20:53is well documented and everyone knows about his black dog,
0:20:53 > 0:20:58yeah, but people don't know so much about hers.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01And I think that they understood what it was like to fall
0:21:01 > 0:21:03down that black hole, and that's why perhaps
0:21:03 > 0:21:06they were so helpful to each other.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08So far as I can see, you've been very faithful
0:21:08 > 0:21:11to the true story in lots of ways.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14There was one moment where I jibbed, where Churchill goes down
0:21:14 > 0:21:17onto a tube train and takes a kind of sample of the passengers
0:21:17 > 0:21:20in the tube station - should we do a deal
0:21:20 > 0:21:21with Hitler or not.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25The scene itself was a fictionalisation of something that
0:21:25 > 0:21:29I consider to be kind of true which is that he was taking
0:21:29 > 0:21:33the temperature of the British public, and discovering
0:21:33 > 0:21:38that they were supportive of pursuing a policy
0:21:38 > 0:21:43of war with Hitler.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47Also he would go AWOL for hours at an end and drive his secretaries
0:21:47 > 0:21:51mad, and then he'd pop up in bomb sites and talk to the public
0:21:51 > 0:21:55and sometimes cry with the public as well.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58He was a very emotional man so I felt I could bring all of that
0:21:58 > 0:22:00together in this kind of romanticised moment
0:22:00 > 0:22:06of wish fulfilment.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09Well, I'm going to cast any BBC neutrality to one
0:22:09 > 0:22:11side and say I loved it, I was blubbing my way through.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13It was a great, great film.
0:22:13 > 0:22:23Joe, Kristin, thanks very much indeed for talking to us.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25And Darkest Hour opens in cinemas this Friday.
0:22:25 > 0:22:27This winter's NHS crisis is real: it's not simply about headlines
0:22:27 > 0:22:29and statistics but about life and death on the
0:22:29 > 0:22:32hospital front line.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34Labour has savaged the Government and promises more money,
0:22:34 > 0:22:36but does it really have an alternative strategy?
0:22:36 > 0:22:43The Shadow Health Secretary Jonathan Ashworth joins me.
0:22:43 > 0:22:48Welcome. First of all do you essentially blamed ministers for
0:22:48 > 0:22:54what's going on?Yes, this crisis of this magnitude was entirely
0:22:54 > 0:22:58predictable and indeed entirely preventable. Remember, we are now in
0:22:58 > 0:23:04the eighth year of tight austerity on NHS finances, we have seen
0:23:04 > 0:23:08community health services cut back, a reduction in district nurses, a
0:23:08 > 0:23:13reduction of around 14,000 beds, many community services have been
0:23:13 > 0:23:16privatised with money going to private companies and not the front
0:23:16 > 0:23:23line, and we have seen deeply savage cuts to our social care sector.Some
0:23:23 > 0:23:28ministers are responsible, can you remind me who's in charge of the NHS
0:23:28 > 0:23:35in Wales.Well, it's a Labour government.When is the last time in
0:23:35 > 0:23:39Wales the NHS hit its A&E targets. They are under pressure but they
0:23:39 > 0:23:46have not cancelled operations like in England.When was the last time
0:23:46 > 0:23:50they hit their target?When was the last time the NHS in Wales was given
0:23:50 > 0:23:54a sufficient level of funding? Remember this is a government that's
0:23:54 > 0:23:58cutting the money across the board and giving tighter financial
0:23:58 > 0:24:03settlements to the health service in England and Wales.I repeat the
0:24:03 > 0:24:08question, have you any idea the last time they hit their A&E targets in
0:24:08 > 0:24:16Wales?They have not cancelled their operations.It is 2008, ten years of
0:24:16 > 0:24:21missed targets.There is no black alert in Welsh hospitals and buy
0:24:21 > 0:24:31have a much
0:24:36 > 0:24:38better record than England has on social care because they are
0:24:38 > 0:24:41spending 8% more on social care in Wales and not savagely cutting the
0:24:41 > 0:24:43budget is like the Tory government in England.Let me read you what the
0:24:43 > 0:24:46Royal College of medicine says, it is unsafe, undignified and
0:24:46 > 0:24:50distressing for patients and their family members, that is Wales under
0:24:50 > 0:24:55Labour now.And if there was a Labour government across the UK we
0:24:55 > 0:24:59would be putting six Ilion pounds extra into the health service and
0:24:59 > 0:25:05there would be Barnett consequential is which would mean Wales would get
0:25:05 > 0:25:09more as well.The Welsh Health Secretary says that Wales has 8%
0:25:09 > 0:25:18better funding than England.On social care.Social care and health
0:25:18 > 0:25:26in general.8% extra on social care in Wales.This says health and
0:25:26 > 0:25:31social care in Wales is about 8% more now than England per head and
0:25:31 > 0:25:35that Wales is in the best possible position to deal with winter
0:25:35 > 0:25:40pressures. You haven't met your cancer targets for ten years, you
0:25:40 > 0:25:46haven't met A&E targets for ten years. On A&E targets you are doing
0:25:46 > 0:25:51worse in Wales than the Tories are doing with less money in England.An
0:25:51 > 0:25:55overall settlement for Wales is being reduced and cut back and if
0:25:55 > 0:25:58there was a Labour government across the UK we would be putting more
0:25:58 > 0:26:05money into the NHS which would have Barnett consequential 's.Looking at
0:26:05 > 0:26:11the IFF assessment of your manifesto and what the Tories have offered, it
0:26:11 > 0:26:17is only 0.8% difference in what you would put in. You would have a 2%
0:26:17 > 0:26:22increase, they would have a 1.2% increase, hardly a transformational
0:26:22 > 0:26:27difference.I think in 2018 it would be a substantial difference when you
0:26:27 > 0:26:31consider the NHS is going through the tightest squeeze in its history.
0:26:31 > 0:26:37Money in England will be falling next year. It would be around £6
0:26:37 > 0:26:44billion. In England for 2018, we will be spending around 126 billion,
0:26:44 > 0:26:50they are spending around 121. It has gone up slightly since the
0:26:50 > 0:26:52Chancellor 's budget announcement but it is still a substantial
0:26:52 > 0:26:57increase because we would put forward an extra £6 billion a year
0:26:57 > 0:27:01in our manifesto. Last year the Conservatives make promises about
0:27:01 > 0:27:05real terms increases on ahead for head basis which they are not going
0:27:05 > 0:27:11to hit.Almost every year, and I can remember under Labour as well as the
0:27:11 > 0:27:14Tories, there is a winter crisis. I agree this one is bigger but it
0:27:14 > 0:27:18happens again and again and it appears we go through this cycle.
0:27:18 > 0:27:22Perhaps at some point as the papers have been suggesting, we need a
0:27:22 > 0:27:29different way of funding the NHS. An earmarked tax, mobilise public
0:27:29 > 0:27:32support for paying for the NHS in a different way than we are at the
0:27:32 > 0:27:37moment.We have not had a winter crisis on this scale for years and
0:27:37 > 0:27:41years and it's because of the cuts, because at a local level we haven't
0:27:41 > 0:27:48been able to put proper management in the cusp the Lansley act blew
0:27:48 > 0:27:54apart decision making and planning at a local level. Theresa May makes
0:27:54 > 0:27:57a perfunctory apology but doesn't change her plan. She hasn't got a
0:27:57 > 0:28:02plan to get the people of the trolleys in corridors. Those elderly
0:28:02 > 0:28:07people in January being treated in ambulances. Her only plan apparently
0:28:07 > 0:28:13is to promote this Health Secretary. She should be demoting this Health
0:28:13 > 0:28:16Secretary, if she promotes him tomorrow it's a betrayal of those
0:28:16 > 0:28:2075,000 people in the back of ambulances.What I was asking is
0:28:20 > 0:28:29whether you have a bigger vision for the NHS which is about more than a
0:28:29 > 0:28:320.8% increase in funding.It is a substantial increase in funding, £6
0:28:32 > 0:28:36billion. To improve health in this country isn't just about fixing
0:28:36 > 0:28:40what's happening in our hospitals, it's about changing the way in which
0:28:40 > 0:28:44we deliver health out in the community so we have got to get this
0:28:44 > 0:28:49fragmented system, the fragmentation which has been exacerbated by Andrew
0:28:49 > 0:28:53Lansley's with forms. We've got to get health authorities working more
0:28:53 > 0:28:57closely with different community health authorities. We have to go
0:28:57 > 0:29:03back to a system where they are more integrated, we cannot go down this
0:29:03 > 0:29:05American-style route which the Government wants to go down.And you
0:29:05 > 0:29:14want to get rid of private provision in hospitals, don't you?We have got
0:29:14 > 0:29:20a crazy situation where Virgin can win billions of pounds worth of
0:29:20 > 0:29:24contracts, and when it doesn't win a contract in Surrey can sue the NHS
0:29:24 > 0:29:31and force the NHS to settle out of court. That money should be going to
0:29:31 > 0:29:37patients.How quickly do you want to get rid of private provision in NHS
0:29:37 > 0:29:41hospitals?As quickly as possible but our priority coming in has got
0:29:41 > 0:29:47to be to stabilise the service. We are short of 40,000 nurses, we have
0:29:47 > 0:29:51vacancies for 100,000 across the NHS, we have to deal with those as
0:29:51 > 0:29:57well and of course we want to change the structures and get more of an
0:29:57 > 0:30:04integrated health service at a local level. David Cameron's former
0:30:04 > 0:30:07adviser is recognising this fragmentation at a local level is
0:30:07 > 0:30:11not working.The private providers are doing about a third of a lot of
0:30:11 > 0:30:15elective surgery at the moment. Some people are worried if they are taken
0:30:15 > 0:30:21out quickly there will be a big gap. They are doing the work to hit the
0:30:21 > 0:30:24targets. Actually the targets on elective surgery will not be hit
0:30:24 > 0:30:27because we just cancelled them and what I will be saying to the
0:30:27 > 0:30:32Government is if you are telling hospital trusts to cancel elective
0:30:32 > 0:30:36operations, that will affect their deficits going forward as well.We
0:30:36 > 0:30:41are running out of time, but Theresa May will say shortly she will stand
0:30:41 > 0:30:48by Toby Young, what is your message? These tweets from Toby Young are
0:30:48 > 0:30:52disgusting, sexist, she should get rid of him.Jonathan Ashworth, thank
0:30:52 > 0:30:54you very much indeed.
0:30:54 > 0:30:56Through much of last year Theresa May was being treated
0:30:56 > 0:30:59as stop-gap Prime Minister - someone who after the blunder
0:30:59 > 0:31:01of the 2017 election would soon be replaced by another Conservative.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04But somehow, after concluding the first phase of the Brexit
0:31:04 > 0:31:06negotiations, it doesn't quite feel that way now and, indeed,
0:31:06 > 0:31:09she is about to dispatch a clutch of her ministers
0:31:09 > 0:31:10as she reshapes the Government.
0:31:10 > 0:31:12Speaking to her yesterday in her constituency, I began by asking
0:31:12 > 0:31:16whether she was really strong enough for a proper reshuffle.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19Well, it's no prizes for guessing, Andrew, that obviously
0:31:19 > 0:31:25Damian Green's departure before Christmas means that some changes do
0:31:25 > 0:31:34have to be made and I will be making some changes.
0:31:34 > 0:31:37But much though you would love me to talk about them in detail
0:31:37 > 0:31:39here on the BBC, I'm afraid I won't be doing that.
0:31:39 > 0:31:43But can you at least tell us, is it going to be quite soon?
0:31:43 > 0:31:44It will be soon, yes.
0:31:44 > 0:31:45Right, we've got that at least.
0:31:45 > 0:31:49Can I ask you about one of the big stories around at the moment,
0:31:49 > 0:31:51the black cab taxi rapist John Worboys's release?
0:31:51 > 0:31:54Do you understand why so many people up and down the country
0:31:54 > 0:31:55are outraged about this?
0:31:55 > 0:32:00I do absolutely and, in fact, I know somebody who was one
0:32:00 > 0:32:02of his victims and who was not contacted, and first heard
0:32:02 > 0:32:05of what was happening through the media, so I recognise
0:32:05 > 0:32:07why people are so concerned about this, and that's why
0:32:07 > 0:32:08I think it's right...
0:32:08 > 0:32:11Obviously, the Parole Board operates independently but I think it's right
0:32:11 > 0:32:14that we as a Government are saying that we should look at the question
0:32:14 > 0:32:17of openness and that we should look at the whole issue,
0:32:17 > 0:32:22too, of how victims are kept in touch with what is happening.
0:32:22 > 0:32:25So the Secretary of State for Justice is going to be
0:32:25 > 0:32:27doing exactly that.
0:32:27 > 0:32:31Are you going to be looking again at the whole question of these
0:32:31 > 0:32:33decisions being taken by the Parole Board in secret?
0:32:33 > 0:32:35Because the public would like to know why this
0:32:35 > 0:32:36man is being released.
0:32:36 > 0:32:37Are there any justifications for it?
0:32:37 > 0:32:40Well, I think this question of openness is exactly one
0:32:40 > 0:32:42of the issues that we have to look at.
0:32:42 > 0:32:43And, as I say...
0:32:43 > 0:32:45And what's your own instinct, can I ask?
0:32:45 > 0:32:48Well, my instinct is that people do want to know more
0:32:48 > 0:32:52about why decisions are taken in the way they're taken.
0:32:52 > 0:32:54But let's look at this properly, and that is exactly
0:32:54 > 0:32:56what we are going to do as a Government.
0:32:56 > 0:32:59But I fully recognise why people are concerned about this.
0:32:59 > 0:33:02Two of the victims had an appalling experience at the hands
0:33:02 > 0:33:06of the Metropolitan Police.
0:33:06 > 0:33:09They felt they were not being taken seriously and they took the police
0:33:09 > 0:33:11to court back in 2014, and they won their case.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13But since then, they have been pursued by the police,
0:33:13 > 0:33:16backed by your government, all the way up to the Supreme Court.
0:33:16 > 0:33:17That's surely wrong.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20Well, look, I'm not going to comment on individual cases.
0:33:20 > 0:33:22But obviously, when these things are a matter for the courts,
0:33:22 > 0:33:25it is for the courts to determine what is right.
0:33:25 > 0:33:29I think what's important is when you look at issues
0:33:29 > 0:33:32of this sort in the round, we want to ensure that victims feel
0:33:32 > 0:33:34confident enough to come forward, so that they feel confident
0:33:34 > 0:33:36that the police will take action, and confident
0:33:36 > 0:33:42that they will get justice.
0:33:42 > 0:33:44But these victims have been mocked and mistreated.
0:33:44 > 0:33:47You're always on the side of the victims.
0:33:47 > 0:33:49In this case, given what they've been through, given they are now
0:33:49 > 0:33:52at the Supreme Court, isn't it right just simply to drop
0:33:52 > 0:33:55the case and let them get on with their lives?
0:33:55 > 0:33:57This is an issue that is for the courts, Andrew,
0:33:57 > 0:33:59but what I recognise is the importance -
0:33:59 > 0:34:00and this is why...
0:34:00 > 0:34:03You say I've talked about victims in the past, and absolutely,
0:34:03 > 0:34:07because I think these sorts of issues, these sorts of crimes
0:34:07 > 0:34:10that are being committed are ones where all too often,
0:34:10 > 0:34:13people have not felt able to come forward,
0:34:13 > 0:34:15because they've been concerned about whether or not
0:34:15 > 0:34:16they would get justice.
0:34:16 > 0:34:20That's why it's so important that we ensure that we give people
0:34:20 > 0:34:26the confidence to be able to report crimes, make these allegations,
0:34:26 > 0:34:29for them to be properly investigated and then the right and proper action
0:34:29 > 0:34:30to be taken.
0:34:30 > 0:34:33In this case, if I may say, we've got to a situation where it's
0:34:33 > 0:34:38got to another stage in relation to the release of the individual
0:34:38 > 0:34:43and people are asking, as you say, why is it that this has happened
0:34:43 > 0:34:46and why is it the victims weren't told about this?
0:34:46 > 0:34:48Because there are victims - as I say, I know one
0:34:48 > 0:34:51who wasn't told about this.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55So it's important that we look back and say, "Actually,
0:34:55 > 0:34:58should we be doing this in a different way?"If necessary,
0:34:58 > 0:34:59will we see
0:34:59 > 0:35:00legislative change on this?
0:35:00 > 0:35:02Well, we will look at what is necessary, yes.
0:35:02 > 0:35:04The Secretary of State for Justice, the justice department,
0:35:04 > 0:35:07will be looking at that over the next couple of months.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10They'll be asking the question, do we need to do things
0:35:10 > 0:35:11in a different way?
0:35:11 > 0:35:14And whatever the answer is, we will do what is necessary.
0:35:14 > 0:35:16Can I turn to another really big story at the moment?
0:35:16 > 0:35:18I've seen winter crises come and go for many,
0:35:18 > 0:35:19many years as a reporter.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22I don't remember one quite like this in the NHS.
0:35:22 > 0:35:2555,000 operations cancelled in a single month, a return to mixed
0:35:25 > 0:35:26sex wards and all the rest of it.
0:35:26 > 0:35:29Can you remember when the crisis was as bad as this?
0:35:29 > 0:35:32Well, if we look at what has happened in the NHS
0:35:32 > 0:35:35and what is happening in the NHS, of course, as you say, there
0:35:35 > 0:35:37are winter pressures every year.
0:35:37 > 0:35:38But not like this.
0:35:38 > 0:35:41This is worse, isn't it?
0:35:41 > 0:35:44The NHS has actually been better prepared for the winter pressures
0:35:44 > 0:35:46than it has been before.
0:35:46 > 0:35:47You mentioned operations being postponed.
0:35:47 > 0:35:50That was part of the plan.
0:35:50 > 0:35:55Of course we want to ensure that those operations can be
0:35:55 > 0:35:58reinstated as soon as possible but it's about making sure
0:35:58 > 0:36:01that those who most urgently need care are able to get that treatment
0:36:01 > 0:36:04when they need its.
0:36:04 > 0:36:07But what I also know - and I visited Frimley Park Hospital
0:36:07 > 0:36:08only a few days ago...
0:36:08 > 0:36:11What I also know is that our NHS staff have been
0:36:11 > 0:36:12doing a fantastic job.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15They do that day in and day out but they have been working really
0:36:15 > 0:36:18hard over this time of winter pressure and really
0:36:18 > 0:36:21delivering for people and doing a fantastic job.
0:36:21 > 0:36:24Sure but, Prime Minister, you say there was a plan.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28Let me tell you about Leah Butler Smith, who was in an ambulance
0:36:28 > 0:36:30in a hospital outside Essex with her mother, who
0:36:30 > 0:36:32was having a stroke.
0:36:32 > 0:36:35They were in the ambulance for an hour.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38They then went into the hospital for a further four hours
0:36:38 > 0:36:39before they saw a doctor.
0:36:39 > 0:36:41Her mother was going in and out of consciousness.
0:36:41 > 0:36:43If I'd been waiting for five hours before I'd seen
0:36:43 > 0:36:46a doctor after my stroke, I would not be here talking to you.
0:36:46 > 0:36:49This is about life and death and up and down the country,
0:36:49 > 0:36:51people are having horrendous experiences in the NHS.
0:36:51 > 0:36:55Whether you say there was a plan or not, there is a real problem.
0:36:55 > 0:36:57What would you say to Leah Butler Smith and her mother?
0:36:57 > 0:36:59Well, obviously you've raised an individual case with me,
0:36:59 > 0:37:03which I haven't seen the details of, and I recognise that people have
0:37:03 > 0:37:05concerns if they have experience of that sort.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09If we look at what is happening across the NHS, what we see is that
0:37:09 > 0:37:12actually the NHS is delivering for more people, it is treating more
0:37:12 > 0:37:15people, and more people are being seen within four hours
0:37:15 > 0:37:23every day than has been in a few years ago.
0:37:23 > 0:37:27But, of course, nothing's perfect and there is more to do.
0:37:27 > 0:37:29We have planned for the winter pressures this year.
0:37:29 > 0:37:32We did put more money in and there has been planning,
0:37:32 > 0:37:34and hospitals have been dealing with it in different ways.
0:37:34 > 0:37:37As I say, when I met staff at Frimley Park,
0:37:37 > 0:37:43they were very clear about what they've been doing
0:37:43 > 0:37:45and I saw dedication of our NHS staff, which is so important
0:37:45 > 0:37:48to us all.
0:37:48 > 0:37:49But given what's happened, you have apologised.
0:37:49 > 0:37:52What have you said sorry for?
0:37:52 > 0:37:57What I said was that I was apologising for the fact that,
0:37:57 > 0:37:59of course, as we've seen, some operations have been postponed
0:37:59 > 0:38:02and some people have been delayed in being admitted to hospital.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05If you look across the NHS, experience is different,
0:38:05 > 0:38:10the experience is different from hospital to hospital
0:38:10 > 0:38:13as to what is happening.
0:38:13 > 0:38:20There are some hospitals where very few operations have been cancelled.
0:38:20 > 0:38:23And there are some where the bed occupancy is 99.9%, way
0:38:23 > 0:38:25above what is considered to be safe.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28And what we need to do is to ensure that in addition
0:38:28 > 0:38:31to the work that we are doing, putting extra funding to the NHS,
0:38:31 > 0:38:34that we are working to see where it is the case that hospitals
0:38:34 > 0:38:41have been perhaps able to cope better than others.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43What is it that has enabled them to do that?
0:38:43 > 0:38:45What can we learn from this for the future?
0:38:45 > 0:38:48You say you put the money in but according to the Institute
0:38:48 > 0:38:50for Fiscal Studies, this is the tightest spending squeeze
0:38:50 > 0:38:52in the history of the NHS.
0:38:52 > 0:38:53Are you saying sorry for that?
0:38:53 > 0:38:55We have put extra money into the NHS.
0:38:55 > 0:38:57We have been doing that year in year out...
0:38:57 > 0:38:59Not nearly enough.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02Year in and year out, we look at the funding
0:39:02 > 0:39:04for the National Health Service and what we have done
0:39:04 > 0:39:07is consistently, where we felt that it did need more funding,
0:39:07 > 0:39:11we have put more funding into it.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14We put some extra money in for coping with the winter pressures.
0:39:14 > 0:39:21We also, in the budget in November, announced that for the next couple
0:39:21 > 0:39:24of years there will be extra money, further money, going
0:39:24 > 0:39:27into the National Health Service, so we look at what is needed
0:39:27 > 0:39:29and we recognise that.
0:39:29 > 0:39:33We also need to ensure that we are seeing across the whole of the NHS
0:39:33 > 0:39:35best possible practice.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38We should be proud of the fact that our NHS has been named
0:39:38 > 0:39:41as the safest and best health care system in the world.
0:39:41 > 0:39:42Is there more we can do?
0:39:42 > 0:39:45Yes, of course there is, and that's what the Government will be doing.
0:39:45 > 0:39:50The tightest funding squeeze in the history of the NHS,
0:39:50 > 0:39:54£6 billion out of the social care budget since 2010, which is why
0:39:54 > 0:39:56there are so many people in hospital beds at the moment,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59and an NHS reorganisation under Andrew Lansley described
0:39:59 > 0:40:02by your own former adviser Nick Timothy as being a disaster,
0:40:02 > 0:40:05creating bureaucracy and destroying accountability.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08Surely those are the things you should be apologising for.
0:40:08 > 0:40:11Well, if you look at the social care system, we have recognised
0:40:11 > 0:40:14the pressure that is put on the NHS and the increased pressure
0:40:14 > 0:40:18on the social care system because of the ageing population.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20But you haven't done anything about it, I'm sorry.
0:40:20 > 0:40:22Well, yes, we have done something about it, Andrew.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24I'm sorry, you're wrong in that.
0:40:24 > 0:40:26We have put extra funding into the social care system
0:40:26 > 0:40:30and we have worked with hospitals and with local authorities
0:40:30 > 0:40:33to identify how we can reduce those delayed discharges,
0:40:33 > 0:40:36ie patients being kept in hospital when they shouldn't be.
0:40:36 > 0:40:38But they've been...
0:40:38 > 0:40:41I'm sorry but you take a £6 billion out from the NHS,
0:40:41 > 0:40:43from the local authorities, and you put a small
0:40:43 > 0:40:44amount of money back in.
0:40:44 > 0:40:46That is not solving the problem.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48That is putting a small sticking plaster on a wound
0:40:48 > 0:40:49that you have created.
0:40:49 > 0:40:50I've always said...
0:40:50 > 0:40:53I've said for some time now that if we look at the social care
0:40:53 > 0:40:55system, we need to identify...
0:40:55 > 0:40:59There is a short-term answer, there is a medium-term answer
0:40:59 > 0:41:00and a longer term answer.
0:41:00 > 0:41:03Short-term, we've put extra money in.
0:41:03 > 0:41:05Medium-term, we need to ensure that best practice is being undertaken
0:41:05 > 0:41:08across the whole of the system.
0:41:08 > 0:41:11So there are some areas where you will see very
0:41:11 > 0:41:12few delayed discharges, others where you will
0:41:12 > 0:41:21see a higher number.
0:41:21 > 0:41:23What we've done in the winter preparedness is work on that
0:41:23 > 0:41:26and we've actually seen the number of delayed discharges -
0:41:26 > 0:41:28elderly people being kept in hospital when they don't need
0:41:28 > 0:41:29to be - coming down.
0:41:29 > 0:41:31Longer term, we need a sustainable solution
0:41:31 > 0:41:34for our social care system, and that's what we're working on.
0:41:34 > 0:41:35OK.
0:41:35 > 0:41:37Now, every single second winter, or every winter, depending
0:41:37 > 0:41:41on when you're looking at it, there is a winter NHS crisis.
0:41:41 > 0:41:45It goes on and on and on and people like me say "Where is more money?"
0:41:45 > 0:41:48And people like you say, "Well, here is a bit more money,"
0:41:48 > 0:41:50and in a few years' time there is another crisis.
0:41:50 > 0:41:52Surely the NHS needs a better long-term solution.
0:41:52 > 0:41:56Jeremy Hunt says there needs to be a 10-year funding plan for the NHS.
0:41:56 > 0:41:57Do you agree with him?
0:41:57 > 0:41:58Well, we've put...
0:41:58 > 0:42:01Of course, what we're operating on at the moment is the five-year
0:42:01 > 0:42:03forward view for the NHS, which is the forward view
0:42:03 > 0:42:05that the NHS themselves came forward with.
0:42:05 > 0:42:06They brought those proposals together.
0:42:06 > 0:42:07What about a 10-year plan?
0:42:07 > 0:42:09They say there is not enough money coming in.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11And we have put the money in.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14We have put money in that was asked for for that review and we've
0:42:14 > 0:42:17actually put some extra money in in the spring statement,
0:42:17 > 0:42:18in the budget, last year.
0:42:18 > 0:42:20A lot of the brightest Conservatives, best informed
0:42:20 > 0:42:22Conservatives in Parliament on the subject, people
0:42:22 > 0:42:24like Sarah Wollaston, Oliver Letwin, are now talking about the need
0:42:24 > 0:42:28for an earmarked NHS tax of some kind to get away from this endless
0:42:28 > 0:42:30cycle of crises and patchwork money going in, another crisis,
0:42:30 > 0:42:34another crisis and so forth.
0:42:34 > 0:42:36Is it not time to look bravely and radically
0:42:36 > 0:42:39at the funding of the NHS?
0:42:39 > 0:42:42Well, what we do when we look at the money to go into the NHS...
0:42:42 > 0:42:45This isn't an issue of stopgaps here and there.
0:42:45 > 0:42:48Actually, every year, when we produce budgets,
0:42:48 > 0:42:53we look at what funding is necessary for the NHS, we look at what changes
0:42:53 > 0:42:55need to be made to ensure that money is being spent
0:42:55 > 0:42:57as effectively as possible.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59Some really interesting innovations being introduced by some...
0:42:59 > 0:43:03That's quite a long way of saying no, isn't it?
0:43:03 > 0:43:06There's quite a lot of innovation.
0:43:06 > 0:43:10You keep talking about the money, but actually what you also
0:43:10 > 0:43:14need to look at is what, how the NHS works, how it operates.
0:43:14 > 0:43:17What I saw in the hospital I visited in the last few days,
0:43:17 > 0:43:21some really interesting innovations.
0:43:21 > 0:43:24They've done a huge amount of work with local GPs to actually reduce
0:43:24 > 0:43:27the number of elderly people that need to be in hospital.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30That's good for those elderly people, it's good for the beds
0:43:30 > 0:43:33they are releasing...
0:43:33 > 0:43:36Of course it is but it goes back to the £6 billion cut in social care
0:43:36 > 0:43:38budget since the Conservatives came into power.
0:43:38 > 0:43:39I'm sorry, it doesn't.
0:43:39 > 0:43:42Actually what that is about is about the hospital and GPs
0:43:42 > 0:43:44working together to ensure that they are helping to keep
0:43:44 > 0:43:48elderly people out of hospital.
0:43:48 > 0:43:51We want everybody to work together, I agree with that.
0:43:51 > 0:43:54It's better for the elderly people, it releases beds for those
0:43:54 > 0:43:58who have more need for them.
0:43:58 > 0:44:00Can I move onto another big problem, which is railways.
0:44:00 > 0:44:03In Maidenhead it's an extra £700 for your ticket
0:44:03 > 0:44:04to London since 2010.
0:44:04 > 0:44:06A heck of a lot of money.
0:44:06 > 0:44:09Across the country commuters are looking at the railway
0:44:09 > 0:44:12system saying we're paying through the nose, the rises get
0:44:12 > 0:44:14bigger and bigger and the service is getting worse and worse.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17If this is privatisation I want nothing to do with it.
0:44:17 > 0:44:19Well, what we've seen on the railways of course
0:44:19 > 0:44:21is that the regulated fares are kept...
0:44:21 > 0:44:26The rises in regulated fares are kept inflation,
0:44:26 > 0:44:30and for every pound that somebody pays on a ticket in the railways,
0:44:30 > 0:44:3597p of that goes back into investment in the railways.
0:44:35 > 0:44:38We saw between, just...
0:44:38 > 0:44:41Since privatisation, usage of the railways has doubled
0:44:41 > 0:44:43and we have seen the biggest investment since Victorian
0:44:43 > 0:44:46times in our railways.
0:44:46 > 0:44:50I want to see, you know, a lot of people rely on our railways,
0:44:50 > 0:44:53we want to see good service on our railways but that does mean
0:44:53 > 0:44:56that investment is needed.
0:44:56 > 0:44:58Meanwhile lots of people, as I say, paying through the nose.
0:44:58 > 0:44:595.5% increases.
0:44:59 > 0:45:03There's nothing they can do about it.
0:45:03 > 0:45:06They are a captive audience, they have to pay that money,
0:45:06 > 0:45:08but if you are running one of the big companies,
0:45:08 > 0:45:11running one of the railways, if you are Richard Branson
0:45:11 > 0:45:13or Brian Souter at Stagecoach and you sign a solemn pledge
0:45:13 > 0:45:17which means you are going to pay 3.3 billion pounds to the British
0:45:17 > 0:45:19taxpayer in return for running a franchise, and things don't go
0:45:19 > 0:45:22as you hope, you can go back to your government and renegotiate
0:45:22 > 0:45:26and get away with it.
0:45:26 > 0:45:29It's one more for the people paying for the tickets and another
0:45:29 > 0:45:31for people running the services.
0:45:31 > 0:45:33No, we are still seeing money being paid into the Governments
0:45:33 > 0:45:36and what we see, as I say...
0:45:36 > 0:45:39If you say that, can you give us I guarantee that the British
0:45:39 > 0:45:42taxpayer is going to get that £3.3 billion from Stagecoach
0:45:42 > 0:45:46and Virgin for the East Coast line?
0:45:46 > 0:45:51Virgin and Stagecoach are still paying money to the Government
0:45:51 > 0:45:57for the East Coast line.
0:45:57 > 0:45:59That's not a yes.
0:45:59 > 0:46:01But that's just look at the point you are making...
0:46:01 > 0:46:03So the answer is no to that.
0:46:03 > 0:46:05Lord Adonis is right, the taxpayer has lost out on this
0:46:05 > 0:46:07deal and it provides an incentive for the companies
0:46:07 > 0:46:09to do the same thing.
0:46:09 > 0:46:11No, what I see when I look across the railways is railway
0:46:11 > 0:46:14companies that are wanting to provide a good service
0:46:14 > 0:46:20for their customers.
0:46:20 > 0:46:22You talk about the Maidenhead line, how much somebody in my own
0:46:22 > 0:46:24constituency now has to pay for their season ticket.
0:46:24 > 0:46:28Actually now they are soon going to be able to have the opportunity
0:46:28 > 0:46:31of not only using the Great Western trains but also using Crossrail.
0:46:31 > 0:46:32That's a huge investment in our railways, that's
0:46:32 > 0:46:35an improvement in service for many people.
0:46:35 > 0:46:37That's a choice for passengers that they can have.
0:46:37 > 0:46:47That's why we have seen passenger usage doubling under privatisation.
0:46:49 > 0:46:55Let me move slightly further north in England.
0:46:55 > 0:46:57You've got a 25-year plan for the environment
0:46:57 > 0:46:59and part of that is a big new northern forest.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02Can you explain a little bit about the thinking behind that
0:47:02 > 0:47:03and what it involves?
0:47:03 > 0:47:06I will talk about the forest in a minute but if I can just say
0:47:06 > 0:47:08why it's important I think, people often think about
0:47:08 > 0:47:11and environment issues and wonder whether the Government can
0:47:11 > 0:47:12have an impact on that.
0:47:12 > 0:47:15If you just look at one thing we have done, in 2015 we introduced
0:47:15 > 0:47:17the 5p charge on carrier bags, on plastic bags.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20Actually we now see 9 billion fewer plastic bags being used.
0:47:20 > 0:47:21Some villages are banning them altogether.
0:47:21 > 0:47:23And so this is a difference.
0:47:23 > 0:47:24It's making a real difference.
0:47:24 > 0:47:29We want to do the same in relation to single plastic use.
0:47:29 > 0:47:32Nobody who watched Blue Planet will doubt the need
0:47:32 > 0:47:33for us to do something.
0:47:33 > 0:47:34Fantastic programme by the BBC.
0:47:34 > 0:47:37But environment is about a huge variety of things and that's why
0:47:37 > 0:47:42we are putting £5.7 million into what is going to be
0:47:42 > 0:47:45a new national forest, 120 miles from Bradford,
0:47:45 > 0:47:50Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool, giving that environment,
0:47:50 > 0:47:53that habitat for wildlife but also areas for people to go and enjoy.
0:47:53 > 0:47:55You say this is going to happen.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58Are we sure these trees are actually going to be planted?
0:47:58 > 0:48:01Because the Conservatives offered or said they were going to plant
0:48:01 > 0:48:0411 million trees in the manifesto and they haven't been planted.
0:48:04 > 0:48:07Well we are putting money in and this national forest
0:48:07 > 0:48:11we will be developing that, we will be ensuring...
0:48:11 > 0:48:14It's going to take time to plant the millions of trees that will be
0:48:14 > 0:48:17needed in order to develop this national forest so this
0:48:17 > 0:48:19is not a short-term thing that's going to happen,
0:48:19 > 0:48:21but the commitment is there.
0:48:21 > 0:48:24You pride yourself on being somebody that understands the countryside
0:48:24 > 0:48:26and you've always been a staunch supporter of fox hunting.
0:48:26 > 0:48:28You have promised a free vote on returning fox hunting
0:48:28 > 0:48:30to the country during this Parliament.
0:48:30 > 0:48:32Have you changed your mind?
0:48:32 > 0:48:37Well, I've not changed my personal view.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40I've never fox hunted as it happens, but if you look back...
0:48:40 > 0:48:41But you support fox hunting.
0:48:41 > 0:48:44I've not changed my view on that but if I look back
0:48:44 > 0:48:48at what the message is that we got from the election, one of the clear
0:48:48 > 0:48:50messages we got was a number of areas in which people
0:48:50 > 0:48:53were concerned about what we were proposing.
0:48:53 > 0:48:58So just as we've looked at issues on school funding,
0:48:58 > 0:49:01on tuition fees, on housing, we are taking forward approaches
0:49:01 > 0:49:02in relation to that.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05On this issue of fox hunting, what I can say is that there
0:49:05 > 0:49:07won't be a vote during this Parliament.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09This sounds, if I may say so, Prime minister, just
0:49:09 > 0:49:19a little bit cynical.
0:49:19 > 0:49:22If I was a fox hunter, I would think, here is somebody
0:49:22 > 0:49:24who supports fox hunting, who said they were going
0:49:24 > 0:49:27to bring fox hunting back, and because you look to the numbers
0:49:27 > 0:49:30when it comes to the election, you are going to go back on your work.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33No, as I said, my own view hasn't changed but as Prime Minister,
0:49:33 > 0:49:36my job isn't just about what I think about something, it is
0:49:36 > 0:49:39actually about looking at what the view of the country is.
0:49:39 > 0:49:42I think there was a clear message about that and that's why I say
0:49:42 > 0:49:45there won't be a vote on fox hunting during this Parliament.
0:49:45 > 0:49:46Let's move on to Brexit.
0:49:46 > 0:49:49Do you think we are going to get a deal this year?
0:49:49 > 0:49:53Well, I think what we saw at the end of last year with the sufficient
0:49:53 > 0:49:55progress on the first stage of negotiations was a real
0:49:55 > 0:49:57spirit of cooperation between the UK and Europe,
0:49:57 > 0:50:00wanting to ensure that we get a deal that is in
0:50:00 > 0:50:01everybody's best interests.
0:50:01 > 0:50:03So the timetable that we've now got going forward, of course,
0:50:03 > 0:50:07with that date of the 29th of March 2019, when we will be leaving.
0:50:07 > 0:50:08Quite close.
0:50:08 > 0:50:10When we will be leaving the European Union...
0:50:10 > 0:50:12The first stage in that will be looking in more detail
0:50:12 > 0:50:13at the implementation period.
0:50:13 > 0:50:16It was important for business and for business confidence
0:50:16 > 0:50:21that this agreement period should take place.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24We now have to look at the detail of that and the expectation,
0:50:24 > 0:50:27and everybody is working to have that detail by the end
0:50:27 > 0:50:28of March in 2018...
0:50:28 > 0:50:30Which really means getting a deal this year.
0:50:30 > 0:50:32It then means the work on the withdrawal agreement before
0:50:32 > 0:50:35the end of the year and I've been very clear that by the time
0:50:35 > 0:50:38we leave the European Union, we want to have agreed
0:50:38 > 0:50:40what the future relationship between us and the European
0:50:40 > 0:50:41Union is going to be.
0:50:41 > 0:50:42Do you think that MPs...
0:50:42 > 0:50:46I'm sorry, do you think that MPs are going to get a vote
0:50:46 > 0:50:48on our future relationship with the EU in Parliament this year?
0:50:48 > 0:50:52There will certainly be a meaningful vote.
0:50:52 > 0:50:55There's going to be lots of votes for MPs on different
0:50:55 > 0:50:59aspects of this and, of course, crucially,
0:50:59 > 0:51:02what the first thing that, if you like, in timetable terms,
0:51:02 > 0:51:05MPs will be looking at is the detail of the withdrawal agreement.
0:51:05 > 0:51:08We have said to MPs they will have a vote on that.
0:51:08 > 0:51:18They will also, of course, be then voting on the legislation
0:51:18 > 0:51:20necessary to bring both the withdrawal agreement
0:51:20 > 0:51:21on the implementation period into place.
0:51:21 > 0:51:22This year?
0:51:22 > 0:51:23This year?
0:51:23 > 0:51:24Well, the intention is...
0:51:24 > 0:51:27And Michel Barnier himself has said he wants that agreed
0:51:27 > 0:51:29by October of this year, so that that can then go
0:51:29 > 0:51:32to the European Parliament, which has to look at it, and we've
0:51:32 > 0:51:35said we want our Parliament to vote once the European Parliament does.
0:51:35 > 0:51:37When you are asked about our eventual relationship,
0:51:37 > 0:51:39you have a series of formulas you use.
0:51:39 > 0:51:42You say it is going to be a very good relationship,
0:51:42 > 0:51:45it is going to be bespoke and so forth, which doesn't really
0:51:45 > 0:51:46mean a lot to people.
0:51:46 > 0:51:49When I asked David Davis about it, he said he wanted
0:51:49 > 0:51:50Canada plus, plus, plus.
0:51:50 > 0:51:51What does that mean?
0:51:51 > 0:51:54Well, it means that what we want is our own free trade agreement
0:51:54 > 0:51:57with the European Union.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00Now, we start off from a different position from other countries
0:52:00 > 0:52:01who start negotiating.
0:52:01 > 0:52:02And from Canada.
0:52:02 > 0:52:04And from Canada.
0:52:04 > 0:52:07Canada didn't have the relationship with the EU that we have,
0:52:07 > 0:52:13because we operate on the same basis at the moment.
0:52:13 > 0:52:15But also, 80% of our economy is service-based,
0:52:15 > 0:52:17particularly financial services, so would it be a Canada
0:52:17 > 0:52:19plus a special deal for the City?
0:52:19 > 0:52:22Would that be the kind of deal that would appeal to you?
0:52:22 > 0:52:25Well, it will be a free trade agreement, which we want to cover
0:52:25 > 0:52:26both goods and services.
0:52:26 > 0:52:28What I want to do is to ensure that
0:52:28 > 0:52:31as we look at the Brexit deal going forward, it's important
0:52:31 > 0:52:33we recognise why people voted to leave the European
0:52:33 > 0:52:34Union here in the UK.
0:52:34 > 0:52:37Some of that was about free movement and an end to free movement, some
0:52:37 > 0:52:40of it actually was about the issue of the jurisdiction
0:52:40 > 0:52:44of the European Court of Justice, and people wanting control,
0:52:44 > 0:52:47but at the same time, I think people still want to have a good
0:52:47 > 0:52:52economic relationship with the European Union,
0:52:52 > 0:52:54so we want as frictionless and tariff-free trading relationship
0:52:54 > 0:52:58with the European Union as possible, and that's what we mean when we talk
0:52:58 > 0:53:00about having a free trade agreement which isn't modelled
0:53:00 > 0:53:02on somebody else's agreement but is actually
0:53:02 > 0:53:03the right one for the UK.
0:53:03 > 0:53:04OK.
0:53:04 > 0:53:06Staying briefly with foreign affairs, you've seen a lot
0:53:06 > 0:53:09of Donald Trump one way and another.
0:53:09 > 0:53:12Child or stable genius?
0:53:12 > 0:53:13I do...
0:53:13 > 0:53:14Obviously, I've worked with President Trump
0:53:14 > 0:53:17on a number of issues, as we continue to work
0:53:17 > 0:53:19with the United States on a number of issues.
0:53:19 > 0:53:20President Trump, I think...
0:53:20 > 0:53:21What do you make of him?
0:53:21 > 0:53:26What I make of him is somebody who is taking decisions
0:53:26 > 0:53:30on what he believes is in the best interests of the United States.
0:53:30 > 0:53:34The United Kingdom government and I will take decisions
0:53:34 > 0:53:37here on what we believe is in the best interests of the UK.
0:53:37 > 0:53:39In the States, there are quite serious questions
0:53:39 > 0:53:41being raised by some people about his mental state.
0:53:41 > 0:53:42Do you think they're serious?
0:53:42 > 0:53:43No.
0:53:43 > 0:53:45As I say, when I deal with President Trump,
0:53:45 > 0:53:48what I see is somebody who is committed to ensuring
0:53:48 > 0:53:50that he is taking decisions in the best interests
0:53:50 > 0:53:51of the United States.
0:53:51 > 0:53:52And he's coming to this country?
0:53:52 > 0:53:54He will be coming to this country.
0:53:54 > 0:53:57Can I read you something you said in your New Year message?
0:53:57 > 0:54:00You said that in 2018, everyone has a right to be
0:54:00 > 0:54:03treated with respect - that means a public sphere
0:54:03 > 0:54:05in which debate is constructive and courteous, and where we treat
0:54:05 > 0:54:07each other with decency.
0:54:07 > 0:54:10In that context, do you think it was right to appoint Toby Young
0:54:10 > 0:54:13to the new students' body, given what he said about being
0:54:13 > 0:54:16a porn addict and given the things he has said repeatedly on Twitter
0:54:16 > 0:54:17about women's breasts?
0:54:17 > 0:54:21Well, first of all, Toby Young has done exceedingly good work
0:54:21 > 0:54:23in relation to Free Schools, and that's what led
0:54:23 > 0:54:26to him being appointed to the office for students.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29When he was appointed, I was not aware of these
0:54:29 > 0:54:30comments that he had made.
0:54:30 > 0:54:34Frankly, I'm not at all impressed by those comments.
0:54:34 > 0:54:37He is now in public office and, as far as I'm concerned,
0:54:37 > 0:54:40if he was to continue to use that sort of language and talk
0:54:40 > 0:54:42in that sort of way, he would no longer be
0:54:42 > 0:54:43in public office.
0:54:43 > 0:54:46But for the time being, he has apologised and,
0:54:46 > 0:54:48from your point of view, that is enough, he can carry on...?
0:54:48 > 0:54:52He's apologised but, as I say, if he continues to talk and use
0:54:52 > 0:54:54this sort of language, then he will no longer
0:54:54 > 0:54:55be in public office.
0:54:55 > 0:54:58Last time we were in this hotel I asked you whether there
0:54:58 > 0:54:59would be a snap election.
0:54:59 > 0:55:01You said, "No, there won't be," and then there was.
0:55:01 > 0:55:03Slightly in that context, can I ask you...
0:55:03 > 0:55:06I started off by saying that you were in a stronger position
0:55:06 > 0:55:09than you were a year ago, or less than a year ago -
0:55:09 > 0:55:12are you in such a strong position you can now say to us
0:55:12 > 0:55:15clearly that you will fight the next general election?
0:55:15 > 0:55:17Well, Andrew, I've been asked that before and I've said,
0:55:17 > 0:55:18you know, I'm not a quitter.
0:55:18 > 0:55:21I'm in this for the long term, and the reason I'm in...
0:55:21 > 0:55:24But does that mean you will fight the next election?
0:55:24 > 0:55:25I said that before.
0:55:25 > 0:55:27I've said that I want to fight that.
0:55:27 > 0:55:29Obviously, I serve for as long as people want me to serve.
0:55:29 > 0:55:31Theresa May, thank you very much.
0:55:31 > 0:55:32Thank you.
0:55:32 > 0:55:37Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
0:55:37 > 0:55:41We are live in London where we will be asking if free speech is under
0:55:41 > 0:55:46threat at universities. Then the greenhouse gases caused by farming
0:55:46 > 0:55:50animals, taxing meat out of the planets, and have we misunderstood
0:55:50 > 0:56:02Buddhism? How was harming Rohingya people compatible with the religion?
0:56:02 > 0:56:03That's for all this week.
0:56:03 > 0:56:04We'll be back next Sunday
0:56:04 > 0:56:06with another political leader and an almost absurdly glam
0:56:06 > 0:56:09Hollywood line up of Meryl Streep, Tom Hanks and Stephen Spielberg.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12Their new film's about an unhinged president whose fury at the media
0:56:12 > 0:56:13seems to threaten free speech.
0:56:13 > 0:56:15So absolutely nothing to do with 2018.
0:56:15 > 0:56:18Until then, we leave you with new music from that great
0:56:18 > 0:56:20Glasgow band Franz Ferdinand.
0:56:20 > 0:56:21Their fifth album is out next month.
0:56:21 > 0:56:23From it, this is Paper Cages.
0:56:23 > 0:56:27Goodbye.
0:56:27 > 0:56:31# Step out of our cages...
0:56:31 > 0:56:34# Out of our cages
0:56:34 > 0:56:35# Out of our cages
0:56:35 > 0:56:41# Step out
0:56:59 > 0:57:01# I like the look of your place
0:57:01 > 0:57:03# Yes I love your construction
0:57:03 > 0:57:05# Did you carve a wee key
0:57:05 > 0:57:08# From the soap in your kitchen?
0:57:08 > 0:57:10# To turn in a lock
0:57:10 > 0:57:20# Of your own penal fiction
0:57:25 > 0:57:32# You are so good at freeing your imagination.
0:57:32 > 0:57:33# Step out,
0:57:33 > 0:57:34# Step out our cages
0:57:34 > 0:57:36# Step out, of our paper cages
0:57:36 > 0:57:39# Step out of of our cages
0:57:39 > 0:57:41# Living our lives in paper cages
0:57:41 > 0:57:42# When you took on your bid
0:57:42 > 0:57:44# Did you make up your number?
0:57:44 > 0:57:46# Did you walk like a punk
0:57:46 > 0:57:47# To the screws at your counter?
0:57:47 > 0:57:49# Did you say you can't win
0:57:49 > 0:57:57# When you are the system
0:57:57 > 0:57:59# That contains in paper cages?
0:57:59 > 0:58:01# Step out of our cages...
0:58:01 > 0:58:05# Step out, out of our paper cages
0:58:05 > 0:58:11# Step out, step out of our cages
0:58:11 > 0:58:20# We're living our lives in paper cages
0:58:20 > 0:58:24# Living our lives in paper cages
0:58:24 > 0:58:27# Living our lives in paper cages
0:58:27 > 0:58:31# Living our lives in paper cages
0:58:31 > 0:58:37# Step out #.
0:58:37 > 0:58:41# Step out, out of our paper cages
0:58:41 > 0:58:46# Step out, step out of our cages
0:58:46 > 0:58:53# We're living our lives in paper cages
0:58:53 > 0:58:57# Step out #.