0:00:08 > 0:00:09Good morning.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11It's that moment in January.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13You've made all of those great New Year's resolutions
0:00:13 > 0:00:16and, two weeks in, one by one, they're crumbling.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19You were going to dominate your party with a dramatic reshuffle.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23No more privatisation crises - not in 2018,
0:00:23 > 0:00:25enough of the online abuse
0:00:25 > 0:00:28and, above all, absolute clarity on the big issues!
0:00:28 > 0:00:29But...
0:00:29 > 0:00:30It's the middle of January.
0:00:30 > 0:00:36Let's pour a glass of the cooking wine after all!
0:00:50 > 0:00:53I've no idea whether it's Dry January for Scotland's First
0:00:53 > 0:00:57Minister, but Nicola Sturgeon's New Year's resolution -
0:00:57 > 0:01:00to join us here in the studio - appears to be intact.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03And if there's one promise the new Tory Chairman wants to deliver
0:01:03 > 0:01:06this year, it's for his party to get effective online -
0:01:06 > 0:01:09and a bit less nastiness all round.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11Easier said, Brandon Lewis.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14And Labour's Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry.
0:01:14 > 0:01:19Last year, she called Donald Trump "an enormous asteroid of awfulness."
0:01:19 > 0:01:27Her resolution for 2018 is to start telling us what she really thinks.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34Speaking of Donald Trump, Steven Spielberg, Meryl Streep
0:01:34 > 0:01:37and Tom Hanks have been telling me why their new drama,
0:01:37 > 0:01:42set in 1970s Washington, is really all about today's world.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44They're throwing rocks at the media.
0:01:44 > 0:01:49Often the rocks are being hurled at the largest collection of truth
0:01:49 > 0:01:53when the truth doesn't appease the rock hurlers.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55And reviewing the news today,
0:01:55 > 0:01:57Andrew Pierce of the Daily Mail,
0:01:57 > 0:01:59and the New Statesman's Deputy Editor, Helen Lewis.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01All of that coming up soon.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03First, the news with Ben Thomson.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05Good morning.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08The Justice Secretary, David Gauke, is considering a possible judicial
0:02:08 > 0:02:11review of the decision to release the serial sex attacker,
0:02:11 > 0:02:13John Worboys.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17The former black cab driver was jailed indefinitely in 2009
0:02:17 > 0:02:20for drugging and sexually assaulting 12 women, but police believe he may
0:02:20 > 0:02:23have attacked up to a 100.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26The parole board's decision earlier this month to release him
0:02:26 > 0:02:28drew widespread criticism.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30The Parole Board said it was confident that the correct
0:02:30 > 0:02:33procedures were followed in this case.
0:02:33 > 0:02:37The Governor of Hawaii has apologised and promised to tighten
0:02:37 > 0:02:40procedures after authorities mistakenly issued an alert warning
0:02:40 > 0:02:43of an imminent ballistic missile attack.
0:02:43 > 0:02:46An official text message, sent to people's phones in error,
0:02:46 > 0:02:48left people scrambling for shelter.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52A corrected message wasn't sent out until nearly 40 minutes later.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55The state governor has blamed human error and the US government has
0:02:55 > 0:02:59announced a full investigation.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02Ukip has suspended the girlfriend of its party leader, Henry Bolton
0:03:02 > 0:03:05after she reportedly made racist remarks about Prince Harry's
0:03:05 > 0:03:08fiancee, Meghan Markle.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12The Mail on Sunday has published text messages sent by Jo Marney
0:03:12 > 0:03:14that include derogatory comments about black people.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16Ms Marney has apologised
0:03:16 > 0:03:20and says the messages have been taken out of context.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22Key talks aimed at securing the future of the troubled
0:03:22 > 0:03:25engineering company Carillion are continuing today.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29The construction and outsourcing giant owes £900 million
0:03:29 > 0:03:31to Britain's five biggest banks.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34The Government says it's working to ensure that all contingency plans
0:03:34 > 0:03:38are robust should it collapse.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41The Hollywood actor Mark Wahlberg, has given the money he earned
0:03:41 > 0:03:44for reshooting scenes in a film to a fund that
0:03:44 > 0:03:47supports people who've experienced sexual harassment.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50Wahlberg was paid more than £1 million for the reshoot -
0:03:50 > 0:03:52whilst his female co-star Michelle Williams
0:03:52 > 0:03:56received just £60 a day in expenses.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59The scenes had to be filmed again after Kevin Spacey was dropped
0:03:59 > 0:04:02following sexual assault allegations.
0:04:02 > 0:04:03That's all from me.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13Many thanks for that. To the papers and most of the stories you've just
0:04:13 > 0:04:24heard are on the front pages as well. The Sunned tames has the story
0:04:24 > 0:04:28about the on-Bouys case. The Observer has an interview with Nigel
0:04:28 > 0:04:34Farage in which he says the Brexit side are losing the argument. He's
0:04:34 > 0:04:37beginning to talk again about a second referendum. We'll talk much
0:04:37 > 0:04:43more about that. Could he be coming back as leader of Ukip? If so, it
0:04:43 > 0:04:50SMEI be down to a story on the Mail on Sunday. It says the girlfriend of
0:04:50 > 0:04:54the current leader of Ukip said disgusting things about Meghan
0:04:54 > 0:05:00Markle. She's been suspended. It is a party clearly in some crisis or
0:05:00 > 0:05:05other. The Conservative Party on the front page of the Sunday Telegraph.
0:05:05 > 0:05:10Tories too Shi'ite to fight left online. That's about the importance
0:05:10 > 0:05:13of the Tories getting more effective online and they hope, starting to
0:05:13 > 0:05:17crack down on the culture of abuse that can appear on Twitter, Facebook
0:05:17 > 0:05:25and elsewhere. Let's start with that, Helen, Nigel Farage piece.He
0:05:25 > 0:05:28called for a nationwide debate on why people should listen to Nigel
0:05:28 > 0:05:33Farage again. He said the remain errs are winning the argument and a
0:05:33 > 0:05:37man could come out of retirement to help make this case again. It is
0:05:37 > 0:05:43interesting. There has been a sense the narrative has really shifted.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46Labour's position is deliberately fuzzy. They know they've voters who
0:05:46 > 0:05:50support both sides. It is a millimetre to the left of whatever
0:05:50 > 0:05:54the Tory position is. They are coming round to the idea of maybe
0:05:54 > 0:05:58staying in the customs union. If you lookity communique just before
0:05:58 > 0:06:04Christmas, it says unless they come up with a magic border arrangement
0:06:04 > 0:06:07we'll have to keep the arrangements between Northern Ireland around
0:06:07 > 0:06:10southern island very similar. The hard Brexit people wanted is not
0:06:10 > 0:06:15being delivered.To be clear, what Farage is worried about is not that
0:06:15 > 0:06:20we won't leave the EU but the way won't be the kind of Brexit he
0:06:20 > 0:06:23always wanted. It is a question how close to Europe we continue to be?
0:06:23 > 0:06:29Exactly. The ballot paper asked a very simple question. What you take
0:06:29 > 0:06:33from that is is very hard. The numbers are not there in Parliament
0:06:33 > 0:06:36for some of these very hard measures.Andrew, do you think it's
0:06:36 > 0:06:42true the Remainers are now winning the argument?They're certainly
0:06:42 > 0:06:47making thing ament in the way the leer errs aren't. Heseltine says he
0:06:47 > 0:06:54will use every bone in his body to try to overturn Brexit even though
0:06:54 > 0:06:58there's been a referendum in favour of it. When it goes to the House of
0:06:58 > 0:07:03Lords, of course, Brexit will be in a lot of trouble. There are so many
0:07:03 > 0:07:06remain errs on the Conservative side who will do all they can to try to
0:07:06 > 0:07:11scupper it.Farage back into the fight. Do you think Henry Bolton,
0:07:11 > 0:07:19the current Ukip leader can survive? No. This extraordinary store why
0:07:19 > 0:07:23about his 25-year-old girlfriend who's #345ied appalling racist
0:07:23 > 0:07:28remarks about Meghan Markle. He's up against his Nashing of national
0:07:28 > 0:07:35ex-tech I've on Thursday. She's been suspended. How can they continue
0:07:35 > 0:07:40with a leader with that connection? Maybe that's part of the reason why
0:07:40 > 0:07:45a party like Ukip is in such trouble?Ukip is finished. It was a
0:07:45 > 0:07:48one-manband. It was Nigel Farage. Numbers he chooses to come back. He
0:07:48 > 0:07:53said last time I spoke to him he isn't coming back. They've no money,
0:07:53 > 0:07:57no support. They're not making the case on Brexit either.What's really
0:07:57 > 0:08:00interesting, one of the reasons he talks about the reason he might come
0:08:00 > 0:08:05back and have a second referendum is to settle the question. Having
0:08:05 > 0:08:08another referendum will not settle the question of Europe. What you say
0:08:08 > 0:08:14is true, I've grown up in a politics where leave errs felt passionately
0:08:14 > 0:08:19against Europe. You've ended up with ared enremain errs, people who
0:08:19 > 0:08:22really, really care. Pro-European.A shift in sentiment. You can see that
0:08:22 > 0:08:26all over the place.It's fascinating.Let's move on to one of
0:08:26 > 0:08:36the other big stories. The war boys case. -- Worboys. This is the just
0:08:36 > 0:08:40citiesities secretary saying he's trying to get a legal review of the
0:08:40 > 0:08:46release of Worboys. Why is this happening?I think it accepts back
0:08:46 > 0:08:51he was prosecuted over 12 cases but there are 93 allegations not tested
0:08:51 > 0:08:56in court. You feel this is somebody who is a repeat offenders. They find
0:08:56 > 0:09:01it very difficult in the idea of rehabilitation for safe release. You
0:09:01 > 0:09:06can't seat the Parole Board's reasoning.They're not allowed by
0:09:06 > 0:09:13their terms of reference to tell us why they're releasing Worboys. I'm
0:09:13 > 0:09:17amazed he wasn't prosecuted for the other cases when you consider the
0:09:17 > 0:09:21historic cases of the likes of Jimmy Savile, the guy who died in prison
0:09:21 > 0:09:27recently.It is very difficult for Theresa May.Observer, it says one
0:09:27 > 0:09:32of the reasons for his release one of the psychologists was give undue
0:09:32 > 0:09:37provenance in the decision?I think David Gauke has to get this right.
0:09:37 > 0:09:43Public opinion is appalled by the idea Worbou will be Lee leased. It
0:09:43 > 0:09:48is what they call an indetermine at sentence which is being abolished.
0:09:48 > 0:09:53It is a case where you could learn a lot. Some of these women were
0:09:53 > 0:09:56laughed at essentially when they came into the place. We see here so
0:09:56 > 0:10:00much about rape not being taken seriously, not being prosecuted
0:10:00 > 0:10:06properly. I hope if this happened again it would be treated in a
0:10:06 > 0:10:11totally different way.Now to the front page. Sunday Telegraph.What
0:10:11 > 0:10:16he wanted to talk about was the fact he says the tolling and the abuse of
0:10:16 > 0:10:20public figures is right at the very top of the Labour Party. He's
0:10:20 > 0:10:27talking about John McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor who said of Esther
0:10:27 > 0:10:31McVey, lynch the bitch.To be fair, Tim, he says he was repeating
0:10:31 > 0:10:38something said by other people? People?.I think he used a different
0:10:38 > 0:10:46"B" word.It was deeply unpleasant. The Telegraph say the Tories have
0:10:46 > 0:10:50lost the war on social media. But the Telegraph says that's all very
0:10:50 > 0:10:57well but you have to have something to engage with. Where are the
0:10:57 > 0:11:00policies, the retail policies to attract people under the age of 35.
0:11:00 > 0:11:05So far, there are none.We haven't mentioned the reshuffle, Helen.
0:11:05 > 0:11:12Didn't go quite as it was supposed to do. I think Iain Martin... ?This
0:11:12 > 0:11:15is now quite a common opinion the reshuffle. You might have expect add
0:11:15 > 0:11:21few rising stars promoted rap the lidly to see what they can do. The
0:11:21 > 0:11:25name Dominic Raab comes up. He's ended up with housing as a Minister
0:11:25 > 0:11:29of State rather than a full Cabinet role. That is not the actions of
0:11:29 > 0:11:33somebody grooming the next generation and giving people a
0:11:33 > 0:11:37chance to kick their tyres. The assumption is she sees herself there
0:11:37 > 0:11:41for as long as she can. She's not keen to get the next generation
0:11:41 > 0:11:52through and out.She didn't appoint a new First Secretary of State after
0:11:52 > 0:11:57Damian Green. Jeremy Hunt was thought to get that job. Does she
0:11:57 > 0:12:01see him as a threat. They ended up with one less gay person in the
0:12:01 > 0:12:07Cabinet and no more ethnic faces. The real problem was it was too
0:12:07 > 0:12:11caution and too disruptive. The entire Cabinet Office hassual new
0:12:11 > 0:12:16ministers.Lots of people said to the Prime Minister, I'm not doing
0:12:16 > 0:12:22that, I'm doing something else. Jeremy Hunt said he wouldn't move.
0:12:22 > 0:12:29Snow how do you deliver those big policies?Another big story Donald
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Trump not coming to Britain. A piece in the Sunday Times saying the
0:12:32 > 0:12:36reason he didn't come was nothing to do with the embassy being in South
0:12:36 > 0:12:40London but he was feeling too little love from the British people.He's
0:12:40 > 0:12:47not adored enough. The Sunday Times reporting plans were fairly well
0:12:47 > 0:12:51advanced for him to have lunch with the Queen at the palace. The Sunday
0:12:51 > 0:12:58Times says he thinks Theresa May ace Government regards imhim in the same
0:12:58 > 0:13:05way as Sadiq Khan who doesn't want him to come to London.This is a
0:13:05 > 0:13:09problem for Theresa May because this strategy needs an open treaty with
0:13:09 > 0:13:14America. That means Trump.Obama said Britain will be at the back of
0:13:14 > 0:13:19the queue for a trade deal. Donald Trump said the reverse. If he now
0:13:19 > 0:13:23thinks that the May Government regards him in such a low light,
0:13:23 > 0:13:28that's not good for the trade deal we need.I don't feel that dismayed.
0:13:28 > 0:13:31I don't think Donald Trump knows what he feels one day to the next.
0:13:31 > 0:13:36He'll change his mind in a few weeks. Let's talk about two other
0:13:36 > 0:13:48stories quickly. Dry January, the January. Veganuary.Which?Dry
0:13:48 > 0:13:56January ended on January 6th for me, sadly.Veganuary, we all go vegan.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00London has its first vegan pub. Something Donald Trump can't sample
0:14:00 > 0:14:05now he's not coming here. Lots of people work in my office are already
0:14:05 > 0:14:09vegetarians. It is becoming a really common thing, particularly among
0:14:09 > 0:14:15younger people. Good for the planet. Going vegan means you have to have a
0:14:15 > 0:14:19separate, special menu. People hand you an aubergine if you go to a
0:14:19 > 0:14:25restaurant. I think this is a really good thing.I'm not going. Not going
0:14:25 > 0:14:30to a vegan restaurant or pub. You want a pint of beer and a pie.
0:14:30 > 0:14:35Somebody else who wants to pint of beer and a pie. Very interesting.
0:14:35 > 0:14:40She has not given an interview to the BBC he said slightly tartly, as
0:14:40 > 0:14:43somebody who always wanted to interview her. She has had a
0:14:43 > 0:14:49conversation.That's how they're spinning this. Alastair bruise, the
0:14:49 > 0:14:52Royal historian, a great conversation with the Queen. They
0:14:52 > 0:14:56discovered in the royal archive, the letter she wrote describing her
0:14:56 > 0:15:02father's Coronation when she was 11. She writes to mummy and papa in
0:15:02 > 0:15:08memory of their Coronation from Lilibet. Very sweet and charming.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12We've cracked through a lot of stories in a short space of time.
0:15:12 > 0:15:13Now to the weather.
0:15:13 > 0:15:15And so to the weather, it's all been a bit January.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18A bit white, a bit bleak, a bit cold.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20I'm beginning to wish I wasn't doing Dry January.
0:15:20 > 0:15:28Over to Sarah Keith-Lucas in the weather studio.
0:15:30 > 0:15:34A lot of cloud, grey in the last couple of days, more today but the
0:15:34 > 0:15:38cloud is breaking so we should have spoils of sunshine, head of the rain
0:15:38 > 0:15:43that will arrive in the north-west later, before it arrives for many of
0:15:43 > 0:15:47us the cloud will break up so Sunshine of the northern England and
0:15:47 > 0:15:52Wales, down to southern and western England, cloudy in the east and for
0:15:52 > 0:15:54Scotland and Northern Ireland ahead of the strong winds and rain
0:15:54 > 0:16:00sweeping in later. Temperatures around two to 9 degrees typical of
0:16:00 > 0:16:04this time of year. Those winds might be disruptive in the north-west, 70
0:16:04 > 0:16:08mile an hour gusts, strong winds south and east across the country
0:16:08 > 0:16:11through the cause of tonight, so I think Monday morning we are likely
0:16:11 > 0:16:17to have a lot of rain, strong winds as well, potentially a soggy rush
0:16:17 > 0:16:19hour Monday morning, and colder conditions moving in from the
0:16:19 > 0:16:24north-west later. The heavy rain, the strong squally winds easing
0:16:24 > 0:16:28towards the east, and then a return to some sunshine, something we have
0:16:28 > 0:16:32not seen in awhile, also wintry showers, sleet and is over Scotland
0:16:32 > 0:16:37and possible than Ireland, herbicides rain, hail, and perhaps
0:16:37 > 0:16:43something more wintry over the hills, that that's us up for a more
0:16:43 > 0:16:46unsettled, colder week ahead.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50hills, that that's us up for a more unsettled, colder week ahead. All in
0:16:50 > 0:16:53all pretty filthy!
0:16:53 > 0:16:55It wasn't that long ago, that Emily Thornberry was consigned
0:16:55 > 0:16:57to the Labour backbenches after an ill-advised tweet
0:16:57 > 0:16:58about the St George's cross.
0:16:58 > 0:16:59Well, changed days.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02Now Shadow Foreign Secretary, and, I read, a gay icon,
0:17:02 > 0:17:05she is tipped as a future Labour leader and even Jeremy Corbyn's
0:17:05 > 0:17:07most ardent admirers look forward to her Prime Minister's Questions.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09But has she got the answers too?
0:17:09 > 0:17:10She joins me now.
0:17:10 > 0:17:12Welcome, Emily Thornberry. Can I first ask about the John Warboys
0:17:12 > 0:17:15case. Do you hope this goes to judicial review and that the release
0:17:15 > 0:17:20is reversed? You are a lawyer after all.The path that they are taking I
0:17:20 > 0:17:23don't quite follow and I have not had a chance to look at it properly
0:17:23 > 0:17:28but I think this. The public are completely bewildered that John
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Warboys is being released as early as he is. He is a serious criminal
0:17:31 > 0:17:36and a threat to women. I do not think that his victims nor frankly
0:17:36 > 0:17:39the majority of women will be convinced that he doesn't continue
0:17:39 > 0:17:45to be a threat to us.Do you find it surprising that they're all these
0:17:45 > 0:17:52allegations of many more
0:17:52 > 0:17:53allegations of many more rapes and attempted rapes not prosecuted and
0:17:53 > 0:17:56left to one side at the moment?Two things. The Crown Prosecution
0:17:56 > 0:17:58Service can't proceed unless they think they have a realistic chance
0:17:58 > 0:18:02of a conviction. But I think we still have to continue on a journey
0:18:02 > 0:18:05whereby we prosecute rapes as well as we possibly can. And I think we
0:18:05 > 0:18:09are coming from a very dark place. They have not been prosecuted
0:18:09 > 0:18:14properly for quite a long time. Improvements but have they improved
0:18:14 > 0:18:18enough? And has John Warboys benefited from some of those
0:18:18 > 0:18:23prosecutions not being them as well as they should be and from those
0:18:23 > 0:18:28women not being taken seriously enough?Now the decision has been
0:18:28 > 0:18:32taken, going back to the judicial review is about all the government
0:18:32 > 0:18:35can do?Am sorry that I have not thought through the legal
0:18:35 > 0:18:40ramifications of this.Accorded your spectacular comet about Donald
0:18:40 > 0:18:44Trump. You have said he is a dangerous man. You delighted that
0:18:44 > 0:18:51he's not coming to this country? Don't want him here. He should not
0:18:51 > 0:18:55have been given that invitation. I think it was wrong for Theresa May
0:18:55 > 0:18:59to prematurely give him a state visit. It embarrasses the Queen and
0:18:59 > 0:19:03is humiliating for her and it is wrong to have brought her into it.
0:19:03 > 0:19:08The visit in February was supposed to be opening the embassy. And then
0:19:08 > 0:19:11the question is what kind of visit did he think he would get? Did he
0:19:11 > 0:19:20think he would travel in a gold coach?Loved up?All that stuff.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23Londoners are not impressed with him, and surprise, surprise, neither
0:19:23 > 0:19:28the British.I think the formal position is that he is still invited
0:19:28 > 0:19:32to come to this country sometime this year. Is your position that he
0:19:32 > 0:19:38should not come at all?It is very difficult, when the invitation for a
0:19:38 > 0:19:41state visit has been made, to withdraw it. Only the Queen can
0:19:41 > 0:19:45withdraw it. I don't want to put in that embarrassing position. The
0:19:45 > 0:19:50government can give advice to Washington and mention security
0:19:50 > 0:19:54considerations. There will be demonstrations. He did say at one
0:19:54 > 0:19:57point that he did not wish to come to Britain until the British had
0:19:57 > 0:20:02learned to love him and I feel quite relaxed about that!You've all had
0:20:02 > 0:20:07fun at his expense in Parliament but isn't there a serious problem. Once
0:20:07 > 0:20:11we leave the EU, if we leave the EU, everything depends upon getting
0:20:11 > 0:20:17trade deals and other countries, including America. If we have hacked
0:20:17 > 0:20:19off Donald Trump it will be much harder for a future government,
0:20:19 > 0:20:23which could be a Labour government, to do the deal.Let's take this in
0:20:23 > 0:20:28stages. The first thing was he said he wanted a trade deal with Britain
0:20:28 > 0:20:32and he thought he could do it within weeks. That shows he doesn't have a
0:20:32 > 0:20:36real grasp of what a trade agreement is, these things take years.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40Secondly it would be failing to make the deal. There are many people in
0:20:40 > 0:20:45the United States. We are not in some medieval court where he... The
0:20:45 > 0:20:48American democracy has checks and balances and the number of people
0:20:48 > 0:20:53are important to speak to. And we never know from day to day what
0:20:53 > 0:20:57Donald Trump even thinks. Thirdly we had been trading perfectly
0:20:57 > 0:21:01successfully with the United States for a long time. They are our
0:21:01 > 0:21:06biggest trading partner outside the EU without a deal anyway.He may be
0:21:06 > 0:21:11there for a long time, you might win another election, and calling him an
0:21:11 > 0:21:16asteroid of awfulness, good though it is, may not be enough to cut yet.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20He is an asteroid of awfulness who has fallen on this world, I think he
0:21:20 > 0:21:25is a danger and I think he is a racist.You've been clear on that.
0:21:25 > 0:21:31Now Iran. Why is it so difficult to decide between the protesters and
0:21:31 > 0:21:35the regime, who in your words have the white hats?OK. The situation is
0:21:35 > 0:21:42this. We would condemn any arrest of peaceful demonstrators. Some of them
0:21:42 > 0:21:48are now in prison in Iran, and this is wrong.And torture being used.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52People should be allowed to express their views in a peaceful way and it
0:21:52 > 0:21:56is completely wrong, it is a breach of human rights for this to happen.
0:21:56 > 0:22:02But the picture is a complex one. You have Rouhani who is, I hate to
0:22:02 > 0:22:06say, liberal in the context of Iran but he is responsible for the
0:22:06 > 0:22:10economy, the Iranian nuclear deal with a stopping building nuclear
0:22:10 > 0:22:15weapons, he is trying to move the country...We need to keep him there
0:22:15 > 0:22:21to talk to?We've been talking to him successfully until Trump arrived
0:22:21 > 0:22:24and tried to undermine the Iranian nuclear deal. On the other hand is
0:22:24 > 0:22:28those responsible for the courts and security seem to be from a
0:22:28 > 0:22:30completely different tradition politically. And there is tension in
0:22:30 > 0:22:36Iran. Demonstrations, some in favour of one side, some the other, a
0:22:36 > 0:22:41complete picture. Rohani has said, and he is right to say this, people
0:22:41 > 0:22:46should have the right to demonstrate peacefully.I get that but when you
0:22:46 > 0:22:52see women waving their hijabs saying they have been oppressed and the
0:22:52 > 0:22:56Labour leader celebrating 35 years of the Iranian revolution it seems
0:22:56 > 0:23:01that Labour are not living up to their international instincts.We
0:23:01 > 0:23:07want Iran to move forward. We think that one path that is available this
0:23:07 > 0:23:11comedy Iranian nuclear deal has an important part to play in that in
0:23:11 > 0:23:17terms of bolstering up the democratic, more liberal instincts
0:23:17 > 0:23:21of one side of the political perspective in Iran. And for the
0:23:21 > 0:23:24Iranian nuclear deal to be successful and for the Iranian
0:23:24 > 0:23:28economy to get back on its feet on the back of that was very important.
0:23:28 > 0:23:33And it may be that as time goes on, the theocracy which is around the
0:23:33 > 0:23:38supreme leader might dwindle if the economy did well. It's quite a game
0:23:38 > 0:23:43of chess.Let's move onto something that is not a game of chess. Do you
0:23:43 > 0:23:48believe in party democracy.Of course do.Your party polls and
0:23:48 > 0:23:53members when it came to bombing in Syria, for instance. That is a good
0:23:53 > 0:23:57thing. So why would you listen to your own party members when it comes
0:23:57 > 0:24:01to things like staying inside the customs union and the second
0:24:01 > 0:24:06referendum -- why would you listen to your own members.We have a
0:24:06 > 0:24:10responsibility when developing policy to have deep respect for our
0:24:10 > 0:24:17membership but also for the country as whole. I a responsibility to be a
0:24:17 > 0:24:21representative with my constituents want to remain in the EU in the
0:24:21 > 0:24:25country wants us to leave. A difficult balancing act. We said we
0:24:25 > 0:24:29must respect the results of the referendum which we have to leave,
0:24:29 > 0:24:37look after the economy which in my view means we don't go very far.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40David Davis said famously what is democracy if it can't change its
0:24:40 > 0:24:44mind? If, when we see the final deal on offer, people are not happy about
0:24:44 > 0:24:50it, could there then be a second referendum to reverse the decision?
0:24:50 > 0:24:55Which deal, the divorce...About the final deal which we should see the
0:24:55 > 0:24:59basic shape up by the end of this year.By the end of this you will
0:24:59 > 0:25:02have the divorce and then they can negotiate our ongoing relationship
0:25:02 > 0:25:06with Europe, so that's the important bit. So we will have an interim
0:25:06 > 0:25:12period...Roughly speaking by the end of the year, at that point would
0:25:12 > 0:25:16it be a reasonable democratic thing to ask people to think again. Nigel
0:25:16 > 0:25:20Farage is talking about it after all.First we need a meaningful vote
0:25:20 > 0:25:27in Parliament. That is what we are finally ran out of this government
0:25:27 > 0:25:30with the Withdrawal Bill. Next week they will have another go at going
0:25:30 > 0:25:33back on that, but those who represent this country in Parliament
0:25:33 > 0:25:36must vote on the divorce. And if it is the wrong thing then the
0:25:36 > 0:25:40government should go back and renegotiate. As for a second
0:25:40 > 0:25:46referendum... First of all, do you mean at the divorce the final
0:25:46 > 0:25:48relationship because the final relationship will be agreed in many
0:25:48 > 0:25:56years' time.In either case.Of 90% of the population now says we must
0:25:56 > 0:25:59stay in them that must be a challenge that would be there for
0:25:59 > 0:26:05all of us who are Democrats.55%?At the moment we proceed in good faith,
0:26:05 > 0:26:10do as we are instructed, we are leaving the EU. Yet we must keep
0:26:10 > 0:26:13this government honest and make sure that when we leave will make
0:26:13 > 0:26:16decisions that look after our country first and foremost. Which
0:26:16 > 0:26:22means looking after the jobs of our kids.Emily Thornberry, thank you
0:26:22 > 0:26:25very much for talking to us.
0:26:25 > 0:26:27Coming up later this morning:
0:26:27 > 0:26:30Sarah Smith will be talking to the newly appointed Immigration Minister
0:26:30 > 0:26:32Caroline Nokes about her new brief and the government's difficult week.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34And she'll speak to Shadow International Trade Secretary
0:26:34 > 0:26:37Barry Gardiner about just how big Labour's divisions over Brexit are.
0:26:37 > 0:26:39That's the Sunday Politics at 11am here on BBC One.
0:26:39 > 0:26:44Brandon Lewis was picked out by Theresa May this week
0:26:44 > 0:26:46to rebuild the Conservative Party, to bring in more members,
0:26:46 > 0:26:49to start to give the Tories a better profile online
0:26:49 > 0:26:51and restore some campaigning confidence after that terrible,
0:26:51 > 0:26:52stuttering General Election.
0:26:52 > 0:26:53Frankly, from the perspective of January 2018,
0:26:53 > 0:26:59it looks like a big job.
0:26:59 > 0:27:04Brandon Lewis.Good morning.Can I start by asking you about the John
0:27:04 > 0:27:07Warboys case, can you confirm the government is looking for judicial
0:27:07 > 0:27:12review to reverse the decision to release him?Yes, the Secretary of
0:27:12 > 0:27:15State is looking out at getting advice on whether it can be
0:27:15 > 0:27:18judicially reviewed because if we can and we can go forward in a
0:27:18 > 0:27:22positive way we will look to do that. I think every victim, every
0:27:22 > 0:27:25friend or family of a victim and everyone has read about this case
0:27:25 > 0:27:29will want to know we can to make sure the victims are properly
0:27:29 > 0:27:35protected. We respect the situation and the feelings people have been
0:27:35 > 0:27:39through, these tragic, awful situations.To you personally
0:27:39 > 0:27:43understand the outrage about this case.Absolutely, I know someone
0:27:43 > 0:27:47who's been a victim of this. But even just reading about it anyone
0:27:47 > 0:27:50will appreciate how awful this must be the victims to see what is
0:27:50 > 0:27:54happening, to think about someone like that being out on the streets.
0:27:54 > 0:27:58It's absolutely right. The Secretary of State for Justice will be doing
0:27:58 > 0:28:02everything he can to make sure this man stays behind bars.Have taken
0:28:02 > 0:28:06over the Conservative Party chairman, would you like the party
0:28:06 > 0:28:10to have more members.Am always looking to get people working for
0:28:10 > 0:28:14the party, delivering leaflets like we did yesterday as well as knocking
0:28:14 > 0:28:21on doors, and the number that really matters to me, voting for us in
0:28:21 > 0:28:24elections.So you need those members. Have you any idea how many
0:28:24 > 0:28:29members who have at the moment? We've got a party that is devolved,
0:28:29 > 0:28:35a localised party, membership is counted locally. I do want to bring
0:28:35 > 0:28:40the numbers and the data into a central base. So in the future I
0:28:40 > 0:28:44will be able to give you an idea of our members but right now, my main
0:28:44 > 0:28:51focus is on the people who vote for us.Isn't it simply a member of -- a
0:28:51 > 0:28:55question of edition com you've got members in Kent and in Scotland,
0:28:55 > 0:29:00just add up the numbers.We can all play with numbers, look at the way
0:29:00 > 0:29:04the Labour Party play with numbers and include them, what matters to me
0:29:04 > 0:29:08is that we have a huge number of people, not just members, but
0:29:08 > 0:29:11volunteers around the country who are knocking on doors, delivering
0:29:11 > 0:29:15leaflets, getting involved in social media, spreading a message about the
0:29:15 > 0:29:21positive things we are doing for people so we win votes in local and
0:29:21 > 0:29:25general elections to give people good governance.Have you as many
0:29:25 > 0:29:29numbers as the Labour Party.I'm not going to play number games, tempting
0:29:29 > 0:29:36as it is...They are absolutely taking you to the cleaners online,
0:29:36 > 0:29:40as you have more or less admitted, and they have lots and lots of
0:29:40 > 0:29:43people do hit constituencies with real bodies knocking on doors and
0:29:43 > 0:29:46handing out leaflets. The Conservatives have nothing like that
0:29:46 > 0:29:50number of people.We have a huge number of great people delivering
0:29:50 > 0:29:54leaflets, knocking on doors every day. In June last year we didn't win
0:29:54 > 0:29:58the seats we would like to win but we got over 1 million more votes
0:29:58 > 0:30:04than before, the biggest vote share we have had in decades. I want to
0:30:04 > 0:30:07build on that, and quite rightly build an online presence but doing
0:30:07 > 0:30:13it in a respectful way.You have more less accepted that Labour are
0:30:13 > 0:30:17doing better on Twitter and Facebook. You are fighting back.
0:30:17 > 0:30:19Let's look at something you are using to fight back. This came
0:30:19 > 0:30:30online this morning. We've banned credit card charges. Is that true?
0:30:30 > 0:30:35It's coupling across the European Union.It is an EU directive.We we
0:30:35 > 0:30:40are currently part of at the moment. The EU have has band credit card
0:30:40 > 0:30:46changes. You've been mocked online saying very pleased the Conservative
0:30:46 > 0:30:52Party have seen the benefits of European legislation.The
0:30:52 > 0:30:55Conservative Party, MEPs, we're fully represented and part of that
0:30:55 > 0:31:01process making those decisions. Slightly embarrassing?No, it's not.
0:31:01 > 0:31:06We've got to spread that message about things we're doing on home,
0:31:06 > 0:31:09work on the environmentment. We do it with respect. We've seen in the
0:31:09 > 0:31:13Labour Party the way the online media's being abused and people
0:31:13 > 0:31:19abused on it that's not acceptable. You're going to crackdown on all
0:31:19 > 0:31:22abuse onloan. You want people to a respect pledge and you'd like the
0:31:22 > 0:31:28Labour Party to do the same?We'll draft up a pledge. All our
0:31:28 > 0:31:32candidates will sign up to behave responsibly and show respect during
0:31:32 > 0:31:41the elections. Corn coach's on TV -- Jeremy Corbyn's on TV this morning
0:31:41 > 0:31:46he should be coming on board with this. We've seen people endorsing
0:31:46 > 0:31:56physical threats against other MPs. He's not apologised for that. We
0:31:56 > 0:32:00have to make sure orders at the very top of the party, avoid this rot at
0:32:00 > 0:32:05the top of the Labour Party. We show from the very top we will use...
0:32:05 > 0:32:13We'll argue our case robustly but with respect.No politician has had
0:32:13 > 0:32:18more abuse online than Diane Abbott. Including from Conservatives.Nobody
0:32:18 > 0:32:25should suffer. I do mean this cross-party. Any personal physical
0:32:25 > 0:32:30abuse should be robust arghments but abuse is a different thing. I will
0:32:30 > 0:32:34go further. If people in our candidates in the election this year
0:32:34 > 0:32:37breach that code, there's evidence they've breached that responsibility
0:32:37 > 0:32:41pledge, we will suspend them. I call upon the Labour Party to stand up
0:32:41 > 0:32:46and make the same statement.Let's move on to another subject. Donald
0:32:46 > 0:32:51Trump said he wasn't coming for the February visit because he didn't
0:32:51 > 0:32:56like the site of visit, the real reason is he doesn't feel enough
0:32:56 > 0:33:00love from Britain for him. He fierce specifically the Conservative Party
0:33:00 > 0:33:04think abouts him much as Jeremy Corbyn and Sadiq Khan think about
0:33:04 > 0:33:09him?I don't think it helps our country when we've senior
0:33:09 > 0:33:14politicians asking world leaders and making comments Sadique has made.
0:33:14 > 0:33:17We've a very strong long standing huge relationship with the United
0:33:17 > 0:33:21States. That relationship is not just the special relationship but it
0:33:21 > 0:33:27is important. They're one of the biggest investors in trade. Hugely
0:33:27 > 0:33:35important to our security interests. I can't say the word on air when he
0:33:35 > 0:33:42uses the word s her hole about black majorities, douse see that as
0:33:42 > 0:33:48outlandish racist language?I don't anyone should use that language.
0:33:48 > 0:33:52Last I heard was the President didn't actual assay. That it is
0:33:52 > 0:33:57language nobody should be using. Would you like to see him come to
0:33:57 > 0:34:01this country this year?Emily, less than a year ago said he should be
0:34:01 > 0:34:04coming. It is right the President of the United States has a welcome into
0:34:04 > 0:34:08the UK. It is a very important relationship for us. One we should
0:34:08 > 0:34:12be looking to develop in the future for the benefit of all our residents
0:34:12 > 0:34:17and our industry businesses and our security relationship.One big
0:34:17 > 0:34:22policy issue. Carillion on the edge of collapse, maintains half or
0:34:22 > 0:34:27prisons, many schools and hospitals. Isn't this a classic case of the
0:34:27 > 0:34:30dangers of privatisation. You put a private company deep into the
0:34:30 > 0:34:34business of the state and it gets into trouble and you have a real
0:34:34 > 0:34:40problem about whether to bail it out?There's a large amount of work,
0:34:40 > 0:34:44we're keeping a close eye on this to ensure there are contingency plans
0:34:44 > 0:34:48in place. This business is a going concern. Hopefully they can work
0:34:48 > 0:34:52with their partners to get the working capital they need to
0:34:52 > 0:34:55continue services.Is there any chance of the taxpayer bailing it
0:34:55 > 0:35:01out?It a going concern, a comearplugy sensitive situation. I
0:35:01 > 0:35:04can't comment further...You wouldn't rule out the tax paying
0:35:04 > 0:35:11bailing it out?They need to work with their partners. Ministers and
0:35:11 > 0:35:14the Secretary of State is keeping a close eye on it.
0:35:14 > 0:35:16In 1971, secret papers surfaced showing that each US President since
0:35:16 > 0:35:20Kennedy had misled Americans about the human cost of the Vietnam War.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23The Washington Post's owner, Katharine Graham,
0:35:23 > 0:35:25was faced with a choice.
0:35:25 > 0:35:28Publish the "Pentagon Papers" and defy the law, risking jail
0:35:28 > 0:35:31and the end of her newspaper.
0:35:31 > 0:35:34Or remain silent and placate her friends in the Nixon White House.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36Her dilemma is at the heart of Steven Spielberg's new film,
0:35:36 > 0:35:39with Meryl Streep as Graham and Tom Hanks as her
0:35:39 > 0:35:40editor, Ben Bradlee.
0:35:40 > 0:35:41I met all three recently
0:35:41 > 0:35:47to talk presidents past, present, and future.
0:35:47 > 0:35:49So, can I ask you a hypothetical question?
0:35:49 > 0:35:50Oh, dear, I don't like hypothetical questions.
0:35:50 > 0:35:58Well, I don't think you're going to like the real one either.
0:35:58 > 0:35:59Do you have the papers?
0:35:59 > 0:36:02Not yet.
0:36:02 > 0:36:04This is a devastating security breach that was leaked
0:36:04 > 0:36:06out of the Pentagon.
0:36:06 > 0:36:10The most highly classified documents of the war.
0:36:10 > 0:36:13The Times has 7,000 pages detailing how the White House has been lying
0:36:13 > 0:36:17about the Vietnam War for 30 years.
0:36:17 > 0:36:21They way they lied, those days have to be over.
0:36:21 > 0:36:25We have a story that happened to take place you know in 1971,
0:36:25 > 0:36:29that was frighteningly like the story that we've
0:36:29 > 0:36:31been enveloped with over the last 18 months.
0:36:31 > 0:36:33The fact that, you know, it's more than mudslinging,
0:36:33 > 0:36:37they're throwing rocks at the media, often the rocks are being hurled
0:36:37 > 0:36:41at the largest collection of truth when the truth doesn't appease
0:36:41 > 0:36:44the rock hurlers.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48The other big part of this movie, which really attracted me to it,
0:36:48 > 0:36:51was the Katharine Graham story.
0:36:51 > 0:36:53There's an amazing scene where you walk up the stairs
0:36:53 > 0:36:55surrounded by protesting women.
0:36:55 > 0:36:56You walk into the boardroom.
0:36:56 > 0:36:59Every person there is a man.
0:36:59 > 0:37:02This is about an era before women had found their voice.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05Was that one of the reasons it attracted you to the film?
0:37:05 > 0:37:08Yes, absolutely, it attracted me to the film, but I'm not sure it's
0:37:08 > 0:37:13about a time when women had not yet found their voice.
0:37:13 > 0:37:16They weren't included in any of the rooms where
0:37:16 > 0:37:20they would have been heard.
0:37:20 > 0:37:27So Katharine Graham was delivered into a pre-eminent role
0:37:27 > 0:37:31in the media landscape by virtue of an inheritance.
0:37:31 > 0:37:35I mean, her father owned the newspaper the Washington Post,
0:37:35 > 0:37:41and she was ill-equipped to take that position but yes,
0:37:41 > 0:37:43this moment in which she...
0:37:43 > 0:37:45She has one huge decision to take.
0:37:45 > 0:37:46Yes, exactly.
0:37:46 > 0:37:49What would have happened to America if the Washington Post
0:37:49 > 0:37:51had flinched, and said, OK, we're not going to publish?
0:37:51 > 0:37:55That's a very good question.
0:37:55 > 0:37:58And that's where the bravery comes in, whether Katharine Graham
0:37:58 > 0:38:02will risk her entire business, and all her employees and the legacy
0:38:02 > 0:38:06of her family to make this decision.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09Tom, your character Ben Bradlee is really connected to what was then
0:38:09 > 0:38:11the liberal establishment.
0:38:11 > 0:38:12A really close friend of Jack Kennedy.
0:38:12 > 0:38:14Very, very proud of that.
0:38:14 > 0:38:15He was.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18How much of this film is about the dangers of journalists
0:38:18 > 0:38:20becoming too close to politicians?
0:38:20 > 0:38:25Well, that was the personal crisis that Ben and his wife Toni
0:38:25 > 0:38:30suffered then because, the question of, if you get close,
0:38:30 > 0:38:33can you tell the truth about them.
0:38:33 > 0:38:36Ben was not a cynic but he could be cynical about...
0:38:36 > 0:38:42the truth is that public figures lie.
0:38:42 > 0:38:47Whether you're the dog catcher of the county or the head of police
0:38:47 > 0:38:50in a small New England town, it is the national inclination
0:38:50 > 0:38:53of people in power to maintain the status quo, keep their private
0:38:53 > 0:38:55parking place and hold on to whatever purchase...
0:38:55 > 0:38:58And they are willing to lie in order to do it.
0:38:58 > 0:39:02That rattled him.
0:39:02 > 0:39:07And I think out of that came a new kind of work ethic
0:39:07 > 0:39:10from him, that said, look, it's a matter of, there is
0:39:10 > 0:39:14an incontrovertible truth out there.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17And as long as you can confirm it, you must print it.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19Letting whatever personal chips fall as they may.
0:39:19 > 0:39:21Politicians and the press, they trusted each other
0:39:21 > 0:39:24so they could go to the same dinner parties and drink cocktails
0:39:24 > 0:39:27and tell jokes, while there was a war raging in Vietnam.
0:39:27 > 0:39:29I don't know what we're talking about, I'm not protecting them.
0:39:29 > 0:39:32You've got his former secretary, the man who
0:39:32 > 0:39:34commissioned the study...
0:39:34 > 0:39:37I'm not protecting him, I'm not protecting any of them.
0:39:37 > 0:39:39I'm protecting the paper.
0:39:39 > 0:39:43It's a small Georgetown world, everyone knows everyone else,
0:39:43 > 0:39:46the parties are going on at the same time as all of this.
0:39:46 > 0:39:47Yes.
0:39:47 > 0:39:50I wondered in terms of Kay Graham being a woman who was thrust
0:39:50 > 0:39:52into a position taking huge decision and the public position
0:39:52 > 0:39:55she didn't expect or particularly want at the time.
0:39:55 > 0:39:58I was thinking of Oprah Winfrey and that amazing speech she made
0:39:58 > 0:39:59at the Golden Globes.
0:39:59 > 0:40:01Do you think that was a moment when Oprah suddenly thought,
0:40:01 > 0:40:04do you know, this is possible, this is real.
0:40:04 > 0:40:06I could be a candidate?
0:40:06 > 0:40:09I don't know if she was thinking that specifically, although I do
0:40:09 > 0:40:13hear now that she is really considering it.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16But she certainly set the bar pretty high for anybody
0:40:16 > 0:40:18else who decides to run.
0:40:18 > 0:40:24Because no-one can speak in less lofty terms and adhere to principle
0:40:24 > 0:40:29and passion in a political campaign because we've seen
0:40:29 > 0:40:31that it's possible.
0:40:31 > 0:40:34And that is how you rouse people, that is how you lead.
0:40:34 > 0:40:37That was the voice of a leader.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40And so, you know, I pity whoever does try to run.
0:40:40 > 0:40:43OK, a question for all of you, first of all, you gentlemen,
0:40:43 > 0:40:47Oprah as a possible candidate, I've asked you if you wanted to be
0:40:47 > 0:40:49a candidate in the past and you said no, no,
0:40:49 > 0:40:51I would never run, because I'm an actor.
0:40:51 > 0:40:56What I do is, I empathise with other people, I'm not a politician.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59Isn't the same true for Oprah?
0:40:59 > 0:41:02No, I believe that Oprah is some other type of social force
0:41:02 > 0:41:07that is one-of-a-kind that has never existed before, quite frankly.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10I believe Oprah gets up in the morning and both personally
0:41:10 > 0:41:12and professionally wonders what she can do specifically
0:41:12 > 0:41:15in order to make the world a better place.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18Maybe it's a very local event or maybe it's going out and giving
0:41:18 > 0:41:21voice to something that needs to be given voice to.
0:41:21 > 0:41:25And we have proven, I think, just within the last few years,
0:41:25 > 0:41:28that if you want to be President of the United States, guess what,
0:41:28 > 0:41:30there's a way that that can happen.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32That's one thing Trump has shown.
0:41:32 > 0:41:35Yes, yes indeed.
0:41:35 > 0:41:37A tiny little nod there, Steven.
0:41:37 > 0:41:41Oprah has 35 years of experience of building bridges.
0:41:41 > 0:41:45Creating conversations between disparate people who don't agree.
0:41:45 > 0:41:50And she has brought so many different sides together.
0:41:50 > 0:41:5535 years of being on her syndicated television show.
0:41:55 > 0:42:03That is, for me, those are credentials for qualification.
0:42:04 > 0:42:07I want to ask you two guys what do you think about Trump saying
0:42:07 > 0:42:08that Meryl as overrated?
0:42:08 > 0:42:11Having now worked with her, I never would have...
0:42:11 > 0:42:13At first I said how dare he, now, I'd...
0:42:13 > 0:42:15LAUGHTER
0:42:15 > 0:42:17He has a point!
0:42:17 > 0:42:21I've spent some time with the lady, and I think...
0:42:21 > 0:42:26And Meryl, you've talked about..
0:42:26 > 0:42:29I think you're underrated.
0:42:29 > 0:42:33You've spent some time talking about having the cross hairs
0:42:33 > 0:42:35on your forehead and the odd feeling about suddenly being
0:42:35 > 0:42:36in the line of public attack.
0:42:36 > 0:42:38Yet, you have to do it.
0:42:38 > 0:42:39You said, you've got no choice.
0:42:39 > 0:42:40It's your duty.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42You have to stand up, speak out.
0:42:42 > 0:42:45How does it feel at the moment being a voice
0:42:45 > 0:42:48for the liberal establishment?
0:42:48 > 0:42:52I don't think I'm the voice of anything except Meryl Streep.
0:42:52 > 0:42:57That's the only group that I can authentically speak for.
0:42:57 > 0:43:04She is a multifarious group!
0:43:04 > 0:43:11The question you asked earlier, really interests me,
0:43:11 > 0:43:15because drawing the parallels between then and now,
0:43:15 > 0:43:19I think what's most pernicious about this particular moment is not
0:43:19 > 0:43:22that the person in power disagrees with the story that is being written
0:43:22 > 0:43:26or is trying to suppress a story.
0:43:26 > 0:43:29This is about trying to actually take the credibility away
0:43:29 > 0:43:33from the institution that delivers the stories.
0:43:33 > 0:43:37To delegitimise the press itself as an entity,
0:43:37 > 0:43:40and to say there is no place you can go for the truth.
0:43:40 > 0:43:44That's the thing that's so dangerous.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46It's not disagreeing with the Pentagon Papers
0:43:46 > 0:43:50story, Nixon trying to...
0:43:50 > 0:43:52It's taking away the legitimacy of the Washington Post,
0:43:52 > 0:43:55The New York Times.
0:43:55 > 0:43:59Every single credible organ of the truth.
0:43:59 > 0:44:04The weapon of choice today is creating chaos of confusion
0:44:04 > 0:44:11so we can't find the truth as easily as it used to be in 1971,
0:44:11 > 0:44:13we had three TV networks, and had newspapers and we had some
0:44:13 > 0:44:18radio and that was it.
0:44:18 > 0:44:22It's a different world. To those who say it is a museum piece to film but
0:44:22 > 0:44:26you have the presses thumb. It is a lost world. What is the message to
0:44:26 > 0:44:30today's media ?
0:44:30 > 0:44:34It takes the same amount of sourcing and correlating of facts and what...
0:44:34 > 0:44:36Raymond Chandler used to call it gumshoe, you've got to get out
0:44:36 > 0:44:38there and you've got to find the story.
0:44:38 > 0:44:39That will never change.
0:44:39 > 0:44:40Thank you.
0:44:40 > 0:44:42You're welcome.
0:44:43 > 0:44:46And The Post opens in cinemas across the country this Friday.
0:44:46 > 0:44:48Now, in the second of our New Year leaders interviews,
0:44:48 > 0:44:56I'm joined by Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon.
0:44:57 > 0:45:01Welcome, can I first ask you do you accept that Scotland is going to
0:45:01 > 0:45:06leave the EU.Is still hope there is an alternative. I think is best in
0:45:06 > 0:45:10Scotland, I believe it's best to the UK to remain within the EU. But I
0:45:10 > 0:45:15have a job to do which is to pragmatically look at how I best
0:45:15 > 0:45:19protect Scotland's interests in all circumstances. Assuming that the UK
0:45:19 > 0:45:24is going to leave the EU we can have to look at the potential outcomes
0:45:24 > 0:45:29are, and work out what the best of the least damaging outcome would be.
0:45:29 > 0:45:33Tomorrow the Scottish Government will publish a paper looking at the
0:45:33 > 0:45:37three potential Brexit outcomes, short of staying in the EU. They are
0:45:37 > 0:45:42staying in the singles market or the customs union, a free trade
0:45:42 > 0:45:48agreement or reverting to WTO terms... That's modelling, the UK
0:45:48 > 0:45:51Government, it's a great shame, all these months after the referendum it
0:45:51 > 0:45:55still hasn't done itself. But will model the impact of each of these
0:45:55 > 0:45:58three outcomes on Scotland's economy. And what the paper will
0:45:58 > 0:46:02show is that each of these three outcomes will damage our economy but
0:46:02 > 0:46:06staying in the singles market, the customs union will be the least
0:46:06 > 0:46:13damaging in terms of the impact and the future perspective.We haven't
0:46:13 > 0:46:19seen the papers, have you seen them? We've seen some redacted material.
0:46:19 > 0:46:25Not useful.Everyone has concluded that what we were told previously by
0:46:25 > 0:46:29David Davis was comic in-depth impact studies, no such thing. I
0:46:29 > 0:46:32really think it's shameful that the UK Government is the government that
0:46:32 > 0:46:36is looking to take the UK out of the European Union and hasn't even
0:46:36 > 0:46:44bothered to properly looked to egg look at the impact...Will these
0:46:44 > 0:46:49papers give impact on for example the Scottish fishing industry.It's
0:46:49 > 0:46:54not sectoral analysis at this stage but it will look at GDP and trade,
0:46:54 > 0:46:57it will extensively at the importance. I know this a
0:46:57 > 0:47:00controversial subject but it will look at the importance, I think
0:47:00 > 0:47:05particularly to the Scottish economy given our demographics of retaining
0:47:05 > 0:47:08the ability to attract skills and talent from elsewhere in the
0:47:08 > 0:47:15European Union...Is this not Project Fear in a Scottish accent?
0:47:15 > 0:47:20It is looking in a clear eyed hard-headed way of the impact on the
0:47:20 > 0:47:25economy. Don't get me wrong... Doesn't it say anything positive
0:47:25 > 0:47:31about Brexit?I will look for the positives about Brexit if I can find
0:47:31 > 0:47:37them!You are a politician. This is supposed to a neutral scientific
0:47:37 > 0:47:41economic analysis.You can judge tomorrow. It's been done by Scottish
0:47:41 > 0:47:45economists, it is an economic model and it says that by far the best
0:47:45 > 0:47:50option for the Scottish economy is to stay in the EU but should've that
0:47:50 > 0:47:54the least damaging option is staying in the single market. There's a
0:47:54 > 0:47:57window of opportunity and I been listening to some of the other
0:47:57 > 0:48:01interviews you've done this morning. I believe there's an majority in the
0:48:01 > 0:48:06House of Commons for remaining within the single market if Labour
0:48:06 > 0:48:09gets its act together. You put to Emily Thornberry that the majority
0:48:09 > 0:48:13of Labour members want the UK to stay in the single market. If we can
0:48:13 > 0:48:19bring that consensus together I believe there is an opportunity...
0:48:19 > 0:48:23Jeremy Corbyn?He needs to decide where he stands on this. I think
0:48:23 > 0:48:26most of his supporters will be disappointed that he appears to be
0:48:26 > 0:48:31only slightly less in favour of perhaps the hardest possible Brexit
0:48:31 > 0:48:37than the Tories. And many will find that completely inexplicable.I
0:48:37 > 0:48:40wonder to what extent the Scots are different to the British on these
0:48:40 > 0:48:48issues because recent research by Sir John Curtis suggests that the
0:48:48 > 0:48:52Scottish live that the rules should be the same for Scotland as the rest
0:48:52 > 0:48:58of the UK,.That research is interesting, it said the majority of
0:48:58 > 0:49:01people wanted things like fishing and agriculture to revert to
0:49:01 > 0:49:06Scotland rather than be centralised in the UK. If you take free trade
0:49:06 > 0:49:10and immigration, for example, 63%, as compared to 53% across the UK
0:49:10 > 0:49:17would prioritise free trade over... There are some similarities, there
0:49:17 > 0:49:21are some differences. But I think we will see those figures potentially
0:49:21 > 0:49:25change to magically if we start to see the outcome or the shape of this
0:49:25 > 0:49:29next phase of negotiations demonstrate that the path the UK
0:49:29 > 0:49:34Government is going down is going to be deeply damaging to our economic
0:49:34 > 0:49:39interests.It's easy to get confused about this. When year ago I was with
0:49:39 > 0:49:43you in Bute house. Simple big picture terms, England had voted one
0:49:43 > 0:49:47way on Brexit, Scotland had heard the other way. Therefore it seemed
0:49:47 > 0:49:51pretty clear to you that this was a parting of the ways, and
0:49:51 > 0:49:54independence in Scotland was an inevitable result of this. Yet
0:49:54 > 0:50:00things have changed badly this year from your point of view. Why is
0:50:00 > 0:50:03that.I'm not going to say anything different, I still believe
0:50:03 > 0:50:08independence is the best future for Scotland. I still believe that
0:50:08 > 0:50:11whatever future Scotland juices, and you know what side of that I am on,
0:50:11 > 0:50:17that is a feature that shouldn't be imposed on us. We should have the
0:50:17 > 0:50:25ability to choose and decide for ourselves. It was plain that there
0:50:25 > 0:50:29was a lot of confusion. This is a complex issue. People in Scotland,
0:50:29 > 0:50:34I'm sure it's the same in many other parts of the UK, people want clarity
0:50:34 > 0:50:37to emerge about the state of the relationship between the UK and the
0:50:37 > 0:50:41EU. At that point I have said we will look about and determine at
0:50:41 > 0:50:44that stage of Scotland should then have the right to choose between
0:50:44 > 0:50:49whatever that the relationship with the UK will be choosing to be an
0:50:49 > 0:50:55independent country.Lets try and nail this down. You've in the past
0:50:55 > 0:50:57as soon as it could see the overall picture, you could then take a
0:50:57 > 0:51:01second decision on an independence referendum. Last week the Prime
0:51:01 > 0:51:04Minister said that the European Parliament will take a decision in
0:51:04 > 0:51:07October and the idea is that the British Parliament shortly before
0:51:07 > 0:51:11should take a decision as well. By the relatively early autumn we
0:51:11 > 0:51:16should have the broad picture...As I understand to be the case. I
0:51:16 > 0:51:21should caveat that by saying I'm not in control of that timetable. But
0:51:21 > 0:51:25based on what the Prime Minister has said for the European Commission is
0:51:25 > 0:51:30seeing, by the autumn of this year we should have some clarity...
0:51:30 > 0:51:34Between October and the end of the year you will be able to tell us...
0:51:34 > 0:51:38That's when I'll be able to make a judgment about the next appropriate
0:51:38 > 0:51:41steps for Scotland. I will then report that to the Scottish
0:51:41 > 0:51:45Parliament and the people of Scotland.Is not enough time for a
0:51:45 > 0:51:49second referendum before the UK leaves the EU. If we are leaving in
0:51:49 > 0:51:53March 20 19th and you have to take a decision in autumn 2019 them isn't
0:51:53 > 0:51:59enough time to take the decision, have the referendum, leave the UK...
0:51:59 > 0:52:03We'll take the decision when we get to that time. We've also got a
0:52:03 > 0:52:08situation and I accept that the detail has yet to emerge...The
0:52:08 > 0:52:13weeks pass at a speed you can't control.Code on a second. The Prime
0:52:13 > 0:52:17Minister now says they will be an implementation period, everyone else
0:52:17 > 0:52:24calls it a transitional period. As I understand it, it's yet to be
0:52:24 > 0:52:29agreed, I will make judgments, might judgments, I have to put them to the
0:52:29 > 0:52:33Scottish Parliament about what I believe is in the best interest of
0:52:33 > 0:52:36Scotland protecting our best interests in all circumstances.Do
0:52:36 > 0:52:42you ever said late at night and say that maybe the Scottish people don't
0:52:42 > 0:52:45want independence in the same. We are debited leader said recently I
0:52:45 > 0:52:49don't think most folk in their daily lives give two hoots about whether
0:52:49 > 0:52:53Scotland as a member of the European Union, constitutional issues are not
0:52:53 > 0:52:56the biggest concern for many people. I rarely talk Scottish independence
0:52:56 > 0:52:59in the chamber because I talk about things that mattered to the people
0:52:59 > 0:53:06of Aberdeen.And has a 2-part question. Let me answer both parts.
0:53:06 > 0:53:09Firstly, about public opinion on independence, most of the polls
0:53:09 > 0:53:13carried out since the referendum in 2014 show that support for
0:53:13 > 0:53:19independence is either the same or in many cases has increased. The
0:53:19 > 0:53:22majority there would say that support for independence has grown.
0:53:22 > 0:53:26There was one that put support for independence and 49%, of course in
0:53:26 > 0:53:342014 the yes vote was 45%. Kirsty was making a point.That people
0:53:34 > 0:53:39don't give two hoots about independence.The pointer made my
0:53:39 > 0:53:42entire political life is that independence is in some
0:53:42 > 0:53:46constitutional obstruction. It is about the living standards. The
0:53:46 > 0:53:49society, the economy we have. The relationship between how we are
0:53:49 > 0:53:53governed and those conditions in Scotland is the important
0:53:53 > 0:53:58relationship, that was the point she was making.Two important process
0:53:58 > 0:54:01questions. Firstly when the withdrawal bill goes through
0:54:01 > 0:54:05Parliament there then has to be a process of legislative approval by
0:54:05 > 0:54:09the Scottish parliament, the Welsh assembly and so forth. What if you
0:54:09 > 0:54:14refuse legislative approval.It's a convention, I have never said
0:54:14 > 0:54:18otherwise.You could say we don't approve it and it still goes
0:54:18 > 0:54:24through.I think it is unthinkable that the House of Commons, that the
0:54:24 > 0:54:27UK would ignore not just because of the Scottish parliament but the
0:54:27 > 0:54:30Welsh assembly as well. We've never been in this territory before. You
0:54:30 > 0:54:36ask me what will happen. We are trying to plan for our part. We have
0:54:36 > 0:54:40this week announced that we have a continuity bill of our own. Let me
0:54:40 > 0:54:45be clear right now. If the First Minister of Wales were here he would
0:54:45 > 0:54:49say the same as I'm about to say. Right now I can't and I will not
0:54:49 > 0:54:52recommended the Scottish Parliament approval of the withdrawal bill,
0:54:52 > 0:54:56because it is a power grab on the powers of the Scottish parliament.
0:54:56 > 0:55:00We are seeking to come to an agreement with the UK Government,
0:55:00 > 0:55:04they are dragging their heels. Months into these discussions we are
0:55:04 > 0:55:07no further forward. I hope that changes in the next weeks but I
0:55:07 > 0:55:10would argue that it is in the interests of the UK Government as
0:55:10 > 0:55:13well as about doing the right thing, in the interest to get agreement
0:55:13 > 0:55:18otherwise the Scottish parliament will not approve.The problem with
0:55:18 > 0:55:22an acceptable is that Theresa May turns back on you and carries on
0:55:22 > 0:55:28doing it anyway again and and again. She doesn't think you have the power
0:55:28 > 0:55:32to do anything about this.If that's the message to Scotland it's not a
0:55:32 > 0:55:36positive one.She would say it's a message to Nicola Sturgeon.It
0:55:36 > 0:55:42sounds as if it is a message to Scotland which is, I can do, Theresa
0:55:42 > 0:55:50May saying she can do whatever she likes because Scotland can
0:55:50 > 0:55:53likes because Scotland can never go against it. I have said, whatever
0:55:53 > 0:55:55Scotland chooses, and it's always a matter that the Scottish people, not
0:55:55 > 0:55:59for me or any other politician, it must be a feature that we choose,
0:55:59 > 0:56:04not one imposed upon us by Theresa May or whoever her successor may be.
0:56:04 > 0:56:09Let me ask about this continuity bill. I don't quite understand it.
0:56:09 > 0:56:13That's to do with the consequences of British withdrawal from the EU,
0:56:13 > 0:56:18to Scotland. How does it work.It's a Scottish version of the withdrawal
0:56:18 > 0:56:25bill which look at areas within devolved competence and legislate to
0:56:25 > 0:56:30continue the effect of EU law after Brexit, in Scotland.Would it mean
0:56:30 > 0:56:35Scotland staying in the common agricultural policy?Effectively it
0:56:35 > 0:56:39says on the day after Brexit all the laws that we have, for example the
0:56:39 > 0:56:43law that you talked about with Brandon Davis, about ending credit
0:56:43 > 0:56:48card charges, they will stay in place until such time as the
0:56:48 > 0:56:50Scottish Parliament chooses to change them. It is a continuity
0:56:50 > 0:56:55bill. We may not have to do that if we can reach agreement with the UK
0:56:55 > 0:57:05Government but we won't stand back and watch her approve a power grab.
0:57:05 > 0:57:09I've been through your manifesto and I can't see a promise to introduce
0:57:09 > 0:57:14new tax bands.We are a minority government, we have to build
0:57:14 > 0:57:19consensus. And be serious about the austerity we face. Our budget next
0:57:19 > 0:57:22year as a result of decisions taken by the Chancellor in the House of
0:57:22 > 0:57:28Commons will be a resource budget, £200 million in real terms, smaller
0:57:28 > 0:57:33than it is this year. Let me finish, we are putting forward proposals on
0:57:33 > 0:57:42tax that will seek 70% of all taxpayers... Hold on, a majority of
0:57:42 > 0:57:45taxpayers because we were introducing new statutory rate, they
0:57:45 > 0:57:49will pay less than if they lived elsewhere in the UK. But for the top
0:57:49 > 0:57:5430% we are asking them to pay a little more. If you have £100,000 is
0:57:54 > 0:57:59about £35 a month more. It enables us to invest properly and the
0:57:59 > 0:58:03National Health Service...If you are a low to middle rate taxpayer,
0:58:03 > 0:58:09you say, you will be completely protected. It is not to review and
0:58:09 > 0:58:14£35,000 a year. You will pay more. Median wages in Scotland, if you
0:58:14 > 0:58:19earn less than £32,000 you will pay slightly less under these proposals
0:58:19 > 0:58:23than now. If you earn and £26,000 not only will you pay less, you
0:58:23 > 0:58:30would pay less than if you lived elsewhere in the UK making Scotland
0:58:30 > 0:58:34the place in the UK where you will be able to pay less and we will
0:58:34 > 0:58:37properly invest.And that's all we have time for, thank you Nicola
0:58:37 > 0:58:38Sturgeon.
0:58:38 > 0:58:43Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
0:58:43 > 0:58:48Join us at ten from Bradford, will discuss the sexual politics of
0:58:48 > 0:58:51flirting, and with thousands of Christians worldwide persecuted
0:58:51 > 0:58:56should Britain do more to give them refuge? And could taxing second
0:58:56 > 0:59:00homes heavily help the homeless? See you on BBC One.
0:59:00 > 0:59:01That's all for this week.
0:59:01 > 0:59:02Thanks to all my guests.
0:59:02 > 0:59:04We'll be continuing our Leader's interviews next week
0:59:04 > 0:59:06with the leader of France, President Emmanuel Macron.
0:59:06 > 0:59:14Until then, goodbye.