0:00:05 > 0:00:07Good morning.
0:00:07 > 0:00:09Not everything has gone badly.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11The victory of Bombardier, the aircraft maker, is very good
0:00:11 > 0:00:14news for Northern Ireland.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17And in Davos, Donald Trump was doing his best -
0:00:17 > 0:00:21I said his best - to be conciliatory, to make nice.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24But for the Prime Minister, it's been another tough week.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27To be a successful leader you need your own team to be united
0:00:27 > 0:00:29and properly behind you.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31Yet again, the Tory party has been elbowing, jostling,
0:00:31 > 0:00:35bickering and backstabbing.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37Was this the week, perhaps, when it became literally impossible
0:00:37 > 0:00:40for Theresa May to succeed?
0:00:58 > 0:01:01David Lidington, now effectively Mrs May's number two
0:01:01 > 0:01:03is here to respond - does he, like the Chancellor,
0:01:03 > 0:01:07want "very modest" trade changes after Brexit?
0:01:07 > 0:01:10And the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn,
0:01:10 > 0:01:12is here in the latest of our 2018 leader interviews.
0:01:12 > 0:01:14Does he - like his Shadow Chancellor -
0:01:14 > 0:01:21think capitalism must change or face a social avalanche?
0:01:24 > 0:01:26Now, it's hard to speak to camera through gritted
0:01:26 > 0:01:29teeth but I'm doing my best.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31Bizarrely, President Trump hasn't given this
0:01:31 > 0:01:38show his first overseas interview - can't think why.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40It's gone to Piers Morgan, his old mucker and an ITV presenter.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42So what have we learned?
0:01:42 > 0:01:43Piers joins me this morning.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45And in a busy week for politics,
0:01:45 > 0:01:47my news reviewers are the Observer's Sonia Sodha,
0:01:47 > 0:01:49Sam Coates of the Times and the pro-Brexit
0:01:49 > 0:01:55commentator Isabel Oakeshott,
0:01:55 > 0:02:01That was quite tense. To relax us back into the Sunday morning...
0:02:01 > 0:02:04the Royal Opera House star Joseph Calleja.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12All that after the news, read this morning by Ben Thompson.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14Good morning.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Police are trying to establish how many people were in a car
0:02:17 > 0:02:20which crashed into a group of teenagers in Hayes
0:02:20 > 0:02:24in west London on Friday night, killing three teenage boys.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26They say at least two men were travelling in the car.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29One has been arrested, the other fled the scene.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31The three victims have been named locally as Josh Kennedy,
0:02:31 > 0:02:34Harry Rice and George Wilkinson.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37It's understood they had been on their way to a birthday
0:02:37 > 0:02:41party at a football club when they were killed.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44Paris remains on high alert, with the River Seine
0:02:44 > 0:02:48expected to rise to six metres above its normal level today.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50It follows some of France's heaviest rain for a century.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52Sections of the Louvre museum have closed, some
0:02:52 > 0:02:54properties have flooded, and tourist boats are
0:02:54 > 0:02:57no longer operating.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00A close friend and political ally of President Trump has resigned
0:03:00 > 0:03:03as head of fundraising for the Republican party,
0:03:03 > 0:03:08after accusations that he sexually harassed women who worked for him.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11Steve Wynn - a billionaire casino owner - was chosen by Mr Trump
0:03:11 > 0:03:13to be finance chairman of the Republican
0:03:13 > 0:03:15National Committee.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17Mr Wynn has described the claims, published
0:03:17 > 0:03:21by the Wall Street Journal, as "preposterous".
0:03:21 > 0:03:24The former Northern Ireland Secretary and prominent Leave
0:03:24 > 0:03:27campaigner Theresa Villiers has said she fears the UK is heading
0:03:27 > 0:03:29towards "a dilution of Brexit."
0:03:29 > 0:03:32Writing in the Sunday Telegraph,
0:03:32 > 0:03:35she says there's a real danger the UK will sign up to deal
0:03:35 > 0:03:39which would keep us in the EU in all but name.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Downing Street said the Government is committed to delivering a deep
0:03:42 > 0:03:46and special partnership with the EU.
0:03:46 > 0:03:4916 and 17-year-olds in Wales are to be given the right
0:03:49 > 0:03:51to vote in local elections, under plans published
0:03:51 > 0:03:54by the Welsh government.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56If approved, Wales would follow Scotland, where the voting age has
0:03:56 > 0:03:58already been lowered for national and local elections.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01The Labour Party has called for the idea to be extended
0:04:01 > 0:04:04to the whole of the UK, but the Westminster government says
0:04:04 > 0:04:11it has "no plans" to do so.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14That's all from me.
0:04:14 > 0:04:16The next news on BBC One is at one o'clock.
0:04:16 > 0:04:17Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:17 > 0:04:21Now to the papers.
0:04:21 > 0:04:26Torres in turmoil says the Sunday Times. Two different stories and
0:04:26 > 0:04:29that headline. One is about Gavin Williamson, the Defence Secretary,
0:04:29 > 0:04:35that appears on many front pages. I am sure he is a fine fellow, but in
0:04:35 > 0:04:40my view he has a terrifying smile! Sunday Telegraph, we will talk about
0:04:40 > 0:04:45this story in great detail, Mandarin is forcing Theresa May into Brexit
0:04:45 > 0:04:48betrayal is the main story. That is not about oranges or Chinese
0:04:48 > 0:04:55officials, but about Number 10 apparatchiks. I was mentioning Piers
0:04:55 > 0:05:01Morgan and his great Trump interview, Trump's snub to the Prime
0:05:01 > 0:05:08Minister over preps -- Brexit. You can see a clip of that later on. The
0:05:08 > 0:05:12Observer, in its new truncated form, the main story there is that top
0:05:12 > 0:05:16academy schools are sounding the alarm as the cash crisis looms.
0:05:16 > 0:05:20Talking to people around the country, people are saying school
0:05:20 > 0:05:22budgets, that is the real story that people like me on the TV are not
0:05:22 > 0:05:27talking enough about. Much to talk about. Where shall we start? Let's
0:05:27 > 0:05:33start with that, Isabel, Torres in turmoil?I know what you mean about
0:05:33 > 0:05:37Gavin Williamson's smile. I remember seeing him after Theresa May's
0:05:37 > 0:05:41disastrous speech at the Tory party conference, where you would have
0:05:41 > 0:05:45thought Gavin Williamson, the Chief Whip, would be ashen faced, he was
0:05:45 > 0:05:50grinning. I was bemused by this. Today, I suspect he will be smiling
0:05:50 > 0:05:53a lot less because he is all over the Sunday papers for the wrong
0:05:53 > 0:05:58reasons. A man who has been relishing manipulating the media to
0:05:58 > 0:06:02his own advantage. Actually come in a way that I have found quite
0:06:02 > 0:06:07astonishing to watch. He has been very impressive, in the way he has
0:06:07 > 0:06:11been getting his case out for more money for the Armed Forces.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15Basically lobbying for cash?He is indeed. A lot of people within the
0:06:15 > 0:06:19Tory party are very pleased about that. You know, they feel it has
0:06:19 > 0:06:23been a long time coming. Now he has missed apt, I think. There has been
0:06:23 > 0:06:30a serious error of judgment here. -- he has missteps. He is all over the
0:06:30 > 0:06:37papers, about this office romance he had a long time ago. All of the
0:06:37 > 0:06:41questions about if he told the full version of events.He denies
0:06:41 > 0:06:44lobbying, there is a real problem, if you are a cabinet minister and
0:06:44 > 0:06:49have a passionate cause you believe in, if you are Boris Johnson on the
0:06:49 > 0:06:52NHS, Gavin Williamson, really thinking that the armed services are
0:06:52 > 0:06:56underfunded, you go and try to campaign publicly, we say, he is
0:06:56 > 0:07:00manoeuvring for leadership. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't?In
0:07:00 > 0:07:05this case, there is the odd sign, the odd conversation, the odd person
0:07:05 > 0:07:08in Westminster indicating that in a case of Gavin Williamson, that is
0:07:08 > 0:07:11probably true. In the event of a future vacancy, he might well go for
0:07:11 > 0:07:17it.How did he get into this elevated position? Who suggested him
0:07:17 > 0:07:21as the new Defence Secretary?When you look around the Cabinet of
0:07:21 > 0:07:24titans, it is hard to work out quite who might succeed Theresa May. I
0:07:24 > 0:07:28think quite a lot of people around the table harbour private ambition.
0:07:28 > 0:07:33When you have ambition, that brings with it enemies. The variety of
0:07:33 > 0:07:38stories on the front pages suggest that Gavin does have a number of
0:07:38 > 0:07:43people that are gunning for him. That is going to be tricky. The
0:07:43 > 0:07:50moment you ambition goes up, so does the leader intensity. I suspect if
0:07:50 > 0:07:57he is serious about that, that is the start of it.Sonia, that
0:07:57 > 0:08:00absolutely terrifying story, as terrifying as his smile, the
0:08:00 > 0:08:05Russians killing thousands of us by targeting electrical stations and
0:08:05 > 0:08:08power stations, the Russians then mocked that as a Monty Python story.
0:08:08 > 0:08:13What is your view of the reality? Well, you have security officials,
0:08:13 > 0:08:18unnamed sources in some Sunday papers coming out and saying that
0:08:18 > 0:08:20actually he was disclosing intelligence that should not really
0:08:20 > 0:08:25be on the front pages. I think there are some feelings in the
0:08:25 > 0:08:32Conservative Party that, in going for that very prominent splash,
0:08:32 > 0:08:37saying this about Russia, Williamson was just trying to distract from
0:08:37 > 0:08:44allegations that papers were making. I don't think that is a very good
0:08:44 > 0:08:48look. When it comes to the substance of the allegations, I think he has
0:08:48 > 0:08:52now put himself in a position where he gave that interview to the Daily
0:08:52 > 0:08:56Mail this week. I think if that account stands, and it is found the
0:08:56 > 0:09:00account stands, I think it is fine. I think this will go away. I think
0:09:00 > 0:09:04if he is found to have lied about anything, and there are allusions
0:09:04 > 0:09:11and some of the papers this weekend that perhaps there was harassment, a
0:09:11 > 0:09:15disciplinary harassment case...We don't know this stuff, we have to be
0:09:15 > 0:09:19very careful. It is also probably objectively true that the Russians
0:09:19 > 0:09:23have left ahead in terms of military technology and we are falling back.
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Probably worth pointing out that if you have the allegation that he may
0:09:27 > 0:09:31or may not have relied on intelligence when giving the
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Telegraph interview, who is doing accusing? There are a lot of
0:09:35 > 0:09:38anonymous quotes, but it says the Foreign Office made a complaint. Who
0:09:38 > 0:09:42runs the Foreign Office? Boris Johnson.There you go, really
0:09:42 > 0:09:46intriguing, skulduggery all over the place. All deeply connected to the
0:09:46 > 0:09:51Brexit story, which we are going to pick up from the Sunday Telegraph?
0:09:51 > 0:09:54Absolutely. It feels this week as if the foundations of Westminster are
0:09:54 > 0:09:59once again shaking as the people try to work out, as you were saying in
0:09:59 > 0:10:02the introduction, how long Theresa May has got, given the apparent
0:10:02 > 0:10:06state of her political authority. The reason for that is three
0:10:06 > 0:10:10problems. You have her indecision, it would appear, the lack of vision
0:10:10 > 0:10:13that MPs complain about and then Brexit. It does feel that over the
0:10:13 > 0:10:16next six weeks you have got crunch time over Brexit decision-making.
0:10:16 > 0:10:21What you are going to get in the next few days is the cabinet trying
0:10:21 > 0:10:24to bring together a discussion about where to go. I think that is going
0:10:24 > 0:10:28to be accompanied by quite a lot of information and analysis from the
0:10:28 > 0:10:35civil service, pointing out some of the dangers of where some of the
0:10:35 > 0:10:37options go. People like Jeremy Heywood, Olly Robinson, putting
0:10:37 > 0:10:39together packs for Cabinet ministers.That is the front page
0:10:39 > 0:10:44splash?In the Telegraph you have unnamed Cabinet minister saying, and
0:10:44 > 0:10:51on...These people are remainers? These civil servants are not
0:10:51 > 0:10:54nonpolitical actors, they are trying to influence the debate and push the
0:10:54 > 0:10:59cabinet down a particular pattern. Whether that is fair or not, I am
0:10:59 > 0:11:02sure, but we don't like what they are saying.Let's try to unpack
0:11:02 > 0:11:07more. This frenzy started with the Chancellor, Philip Hammond, saying
0:11:07 > 0:11:10after Brexit there will be very little change in trade relationships
0:11:10 > 0:11:15with the EU. Was that a misstep? Precisely what the Prime Minister
0:11:15 > 0:11:19does not need right now, this incredibly sensitive moment for
0:11:19 > 0:11:23Brexit negotiations and her own leadership. Her Chancellor
0:11:23 > 0:11:26suggesting that, actually, what we are going to get is a new thing
0:11:26 > 0:11:34called Brexit in name only, Brino. He wasn't talking about the deal he
0:11:34 > 0:11:37wanted, but the fact that he wanted an unchanged, relatively, trading
0:11:37 > 0:11:41relationship. If you are going to get that, what do you have to give
0:11:41 > 0:11:47the Europeans to achieve it?His way of trying to spin his way out of
0:11:47 > 0:11:52that has not worked at all with the MPs that support Brexit, or the 17.3
0:11:52 > 0:11:55million people that voted for it. When you see in the papers, as we
0:11:55 > 0:12:00have done, the suggestion that the transition period might be extended
0:12:00 > 0:12:04for another year, that merely plays into people's deep-seated suspicions
0:12:04 > 0:12:08that it's not going to happen.It ain't going to happen? OK. I think
0:12:08 > 0:12:12that is enough Brexit for the time being. We will talk about it a lot
0:12:12 > 0:12:16during the course of the programme. I said earlier on, Sonia, school
0:12:16 > 0:12:19budgets, people around the country raise this again and again. Schools
0:12:19 > 0:12:23are in a real problem and the NHS has got the headlines, rough
0:12:23 > 0:12:26sleepers have got headlines, but schools have been slightly pushed
0:12:26 > 0:12:34out?That is why I picked this story. It is a great reminder when
0:12:34 > 0:12:36we're talking about high politics and Brexit, there is actually a very
0:12:36 > 0:12:39grim reality out there in the country, whether it is the NHS,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41rough sleepers or schools. We have had the Christmas break for schools.
0:12:41 > 0:12:47Things have gone slightly silent on school funding. But the Observer
0:12:47 > 0:12:55splash is top Academy chain saying, raising the alarm bells, saying that
0:12:55 > 0:12:59the Government is not funding schools sufficiently. We know that
0:12:59 > 0:13:01the Institute for Fiscal Studies has pointed out that real per-pupil
0:13:01 > 0:13:04spending is going down over the next few years. The deepest cuts to
0:13:04 > 0:13:11school funding since the early 1980s. We had headteachers writing
0:13:11 > 0:13:14to the Prime Minister, writing to parents and saying, you know, we
0:13:14 > 0:13:18can't even afford things like toilet roll. You need to chip in. I think
0:13:18 > 0:13:24this story has very political ramifications for the Prime
0:13:24 > 0:13:27Minister. Lots of Conservative backbenchers in marginal
0:13:27 > 0:13:30constituencies, with schools that are going to be affected by these
0:13:30 > 0:13:33cuts. I think it is going to cause problems. I think the other very
0:13:33 > 0:13:38interesting angle of the story is that academies are the flagship
0:13:38 > 0:13:40education reform of this government. Now, this raises questions about
0:13:40 > 0:13:46what happens if some of the bigger chains go bust.OK, let's move on.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50Two are the stories we must do. Trump and one is the Labour story
0:13:50 > 0:13:57that we will look at later on. There is a culture war going on?I think
0:13:57 > 0:14:01it is a good segue with the little party political broadcast for the
0:14:01 > 0:14:05Labour Party from sunnier. I agree that there are serious problems out
0:14:05 > 0:14:09there, schools, the NHS and the rest of it. What is Labour tying itself
0:14:09 > 0:14:12in knots over? A question of whether people that are transgender should
0:14:12 > 0:14:22be allowed to run on an all-female short list. I tried coming on
0:14:22 > 0:14:26programme with some statistics about how many people identify as
0:14:26 > 0:14:29transgender. Difficult to get the statistics, but I would guess it is
0:14:29 > 0:14:32not in a millions or even in the tens of thousands. How many want to
0:14:32 > 0:14:36run for the Labour Party on an all-female short list? I will hazard
0:14:36 > 0:14:40a guess it is less than the fingers of these two hands.And yet it is
0:14:40 > 0:14:44somehow the subject of the hour. If you go to one of these London
0:14:44 > 0:14:48clinics, the Marsden, talking to kids that want to change their
0:14:48 > 0:14:52gender, the number of children wanted to do this is shooting up.
0:14:52 > 0:14:57There is a real thing here. ITV have been running an extraordinary,
0:14:57 > 0:15:00moving documentary called Transformation Street, which I found
0:15:00 > 0:15:02myself watching, about people going through this. I don't think anybody
0:15:02 > 0:15:06could watch the programme could possibly suggest anybody would elect
0:15:06 > 0:15:10to go through that traumatic surgery, all of the hormonal
0:15:10 > 0:15:13treatment. But I do think we need to keep a sense of proportion. It is
0:15:13 > 0:15:17not the right thing for Labour to be obsessing about.A philosophical
0:15:17 > 0:15:22question. I don't want to talk any more about this, I want to talk
0:15:22 > 0:15:26about Trump. Piers Morgan got this interview with Trump and he got a
0:15:26 > 0:15:32real story out of that, Trump's hardline position on Britain and
0:15:32 > 0:15:38Brexit, and also the EU, about which he is not a huge fan?
0:15:38 > 0:15:45Donald Trump is trying to be diplomatically helpful, but he
0:15:45 > 0:15:48couldn't quite help himself, he suggested Theresa May should have
0:15:48 > 0:15:53gone in harder on the Brexit debate, said he might come up to two times
0:15:53 > 0:16:00this year which won't necessarily help her. He has a stay at every
0:16:00 > 0:16:07evening address on Tuesday. There is briefing ahead of the speech about
0:16:07 > 0:16:11how Donald Trump doesn't want to repeat the American carnage speech
0:16:11 > 0:16:18he gave last year when he spoke about the state of the US, but wants
0:16:18 > 0:16:24to seize on his
0:16:26 > 0:16:28to seize on his economic progress. What can we see a Donald Trump that
0:16:28 > 0:16:33gets on with the job? I don't know, Theresa May might give him some
0:16:33 > 0:16:38tips.A low-key Donald Trump, very hard to get our heads around.
0:16:38 > 0:16:40America First doesn't mean America alone -
0:16:40 > 0:16:42that was Donald Trump's most impressive soundbite
0:16:42 > 0:16:43at the Davos forum.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45But he also found time to take possession of
0:16:45 > 0:16:47an Arsenal football shirt - don't ask.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49And to give his first British TV interviewer, Piers Morgan,
0:16:49 > 0:16:51a rather odd kind of apology for re-tweeting messages from
0:16:51 > 0:16:53the far right group Britain First.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55Before we speak to the Grand Inquisitor himself, here's
0:16:55 > 0:16:59more from the interview.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01Do you believe that we're in a good position?
0:17:01 > 0:17:05A lot of people are still very very anxious.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08But hearing the President of the United States saying, hey,
0:17:08 > 0:17:11well, there's plenty of good trade coming from me, that's a big deal
0:17:11 > 0:17:12to people in Britain.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14Well, would it be the way I negotiate?
0:17:14 > 0:17:16No, I wouldn't negotiate the way it was negotiated,
0:17:16 > 0:17:19but I have a lot of respect for your Prime Minister
0:17:19 > 0:17:21and I think they're doing a job.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23I think I would have negotiated it differently.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25I would have had a different attitude.
0:17:25 > 0:17:26What would you have done?
0:17:26 > 0:17:29I think I would have said that the European Union is not
0:17:29 > 0:17:31cracked up to what it's supposed to be.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34And I would have taken a tougher stand on getting out.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Are we front of the queue, or are we behind the French?
0:17:37 > 0:17:39Because we're a bit worried about Emmanuel Macron,
0:17:39 > 0:17:43who's been all over you, trying to be your new best friend.
0:17:43 > 0:17:44No, I like him.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46He's a friend of mine.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49"Emmanuel".
0:17:49 > 0:17:51He's a great guy, his wife is fantastic.
0:17:51 > 0:17:56I like him a lot.
0:17:56 > 0:18:05He likes him a lot. I said right at the beginning you are an old mucker
0:18:05 > 0:18:12of President Trump, explain why that is the case.I took part in the
0:18:12 > 0:18:24American celebrity Apprentice, then went to CNM and to interview him
0:18:24 > 0:18:28many times. It is quite surreal when a friend becomes the most powerful
0:18:28 > 0:18:32man on earth.This is why some people will say of course he goes to
0:18:32 > 0:18:37you, you will give him an easy interview. Did you?It's generating
0:18:37 > 0:18:42a lot of news lines and I think the clips show I don't give him an easy
0:18:42 > 0:18:45time. I think there is a more relaxed atmosphere and I always
0:18:45 > 0:18:51believe you get more out of him when you are relaxed. When you attack
0:18:51 > 0:19:01him, he attacks back and it degenerates
0:19:01 > 0:19:03degenerates into a slanging match. He made some forceful points,
0:19:03 > 0:19:05particularly about Britain.I was intrigued that he said he would have
0:19:05 > 0:19:08done Brexit differently, did you get any sense of what that would have
0:19:08 > 0:19:12meant in concrete terms? There does anyone on the planet doubt that
0:19:12 > 0:19:16Donald Trump would have negotiated this harder than Theresa May and her
0:19:16 > 0:19:21government? He looked at it and said, are you actually leaving? Are
0:19:21 > 0:19:24you trying to pretend you are not leaving? He doesn't understand the
0:19:24 > 0:19:31subtleties. And not worrying too much about our
0:19:31 > 0:19:37trade deals for the time being.Yes, he gave a stark warning to the EU
0:19:37 > 0:19:41which is that he's coming after them on trade. I wouldn't be at all
0:19:41 > 0:19:46surprised. The biggest trading partner for America in the world is
0:19:46 > 0:19:50the EU, he was making it very clear he's not happy with that trade
0:19:50 > 0:19:54arrangement. If I were the EU I wouldn't be quite so cocky about
0:19:54 > 0:20:02where is going. My message also, you have Jeremy Corbyn coming my message
0:20:02 > 0:20:10to those who say band
0:20:10 > 0:20:12to those who say band Donald Trump - right, a state visit for later in
0:20:12 > 0:20:18the autumn, but I think we have to work out in this country, we have
0:20:18 > 0:20:23given state visits to Vladimir Putin, Robert Mugabe, Bashar
0:20:23 > 0:20:27al-Assad, are we really saying Donald Trump is the one we end up
0:20:27 > 0:20:31banning? This is among this week who has gone on a remarkable charm
0:20:31 > 0:20:37offensive to Britain, and said every time we need him militarily he will
0:20:37 > 0:20:42be there. He said he will do a great new trade deal with us. Hold your
0:20:42 > 0:20:48nose if you don't like him and put Britain's interests first.His image
0:20:48 > 0:20:56around the world has been heavily shaped by this book Fire And Fury,
0:20:56 > 0:21:01and one of his friends described him as a monkey. I mean someone who has
0:21:01 > 0:21:05got zero focus and cannot concentrate for more than 30
0:21:05 > 0:21:09seconds. Even in your interview you start talking about Brexit and he
0:21:09 > 0:21:15goes on talking about golf in Scotland. Do you think he is a man
0:21:15 > 0:21:19who's focused enough and mentally capable of being a successful
0:21:19 > 0:21:23president?Absolutely but he is a bull in a china shop. Is an
0:21:23 > 0:21:27interesting maverick kind of character. Watching him in Davos was
0:21:27 > 0:21:31fascinating because I watched other leaders like Angela Merkel and
0:21:31 > 0:21:36Emmanuel Macron and they weren't getting much attention. When Donald
0:21:36 > 0:21:41Trump arrived it was like Mick Jagger had arrived.Mick Jagger's
0:21:41 > 0:21:51lawyers are on the phone as we speak.Actually
0:21:51 > 0:21:53speak.Actually Donald Trump's might be! He said he will do another one
0:21:53 > 0:21:58eventually but I have another five in the can.Piers Morgan, thank you.
0:21:58 > 0:21:59The weather,
0:21:59 > 0:22:01really lovely, golden, calm, ice-blue moments
0:22:01 > 0:22:03but only moments, in what has been yet more wind, rain
0:22:03 > 0:22:04and seasonal wildness.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07It's only been dry January in the most drearily penitential sense.
0:22:07 > 0:22:08I'm almost ready for spring.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11Susan Powell is in the BBC weather studio.
0:22:11 > 0:22:14Susan Powell is in the BBC weather studio.
0:22:15 > 0:22:20And I can deliver, the warmest day of the year so far. Lots of mild
0:22:20 > 0:22:25air. If the sun manages to get through the cloud, we could even see
0:22:25 > 0:22:32temperatures up to 15 Celsius. That said, for most, we will be up
0:22:32 > 0:22:36against the cloud for the majority of the Day today. Quite misty and
0:22:36 > 0:22:43murky around many of the coast of western Britain but from the
0:22:43 > 0:22:46south-west to the Welsh mountains and perhaps the east of the Pennines
0:22:46 > 0:22:50this afternoon, you stand a chance of the sunshine coming through and
0:22:50 > 0:22:56then it should be pleasantly mild for you. Generally highs of 11 or
0:22:56 > 0:23:0212, just the far north of Scotland sitting in that slightly colder air.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05That cold air will progress right the way across the British Isles as
0:23:05 > 0:23:11we move into Monday to a chilly start, but the payoff is you get the
0:23:11 > 0:23:16brighter conditions so Scotland sees the sunshine first thing. The
0:23:16 > 0:23:21weather front still lurking to the south keeps things cloudy and damp
0:23:21 > 0:23:25through Monday afternoon but still mild here with highs of 11
0:23:25 > 0:23:25through Monday afternoon but still mild here with highs of 11 or 12
0:23:25 > 0:23:30degrees. So pretty good news for almost
0:23:30 > 0:23:35everybody except for my mum and dad in the far north-west of Scotland.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37One thing you can say about the modern Tory party -
0:23:37 > 0:23:39it's not exactly instinctively loyal.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41Theresa May has faced poisoned dart after poisoned dart aimed
0:23:41 > 0:23:43at her back all week, as Brexiteers and Remainers lock
0:23:43 > 0:23:46horns and general discipline seems to be breaking down.
0:23:46 > 0:23:47How should she respond?
0:23:47 > 0:23:48How can she respond?
0:23:48 > 0:23:50David Lidington of the Cabinet Office is as close
0:23:50 > 0:23:56as she has to a deputy.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00I think I'm going to save your blushes. I'm not going to read out
0:24:00 > 0:24:04all of the disobliging things your colleagues have said about the Prime
0:24:04 > 0:24:08Minister, but what are your messages to those people saying things about
0:24:08 > 0:24:14how she has no vision?I think look at what she says and what she's
0:24:14 > 0:24:19doing in office. You have a warm and there who inherited it an immense
0:24:19 > 0:24:23challenge in delivering a Brexit that will give prosperity and
0:24:23 > 0:24:28security for the United Kingdom and all its people for the future. She's
0:24:28 > 0:24:33not only doing that. When I sit with her in a morning meeting, when I see
0:24:33 > 0:24:37the flash in the eye, what is really driving her in politics is not
0:24:37 > 0:24:41performing in front of the media, it is public service and making a
0:24:41 > 0:24:47difference on big social policy challenges. It is getting the right
0:24:47 > 0:24:50housing so young people can live somewhere, getting social care
0:24:50 > 0:24:56sorted out, getting education fixed so people will have secure jobs and
0:24:56 > 0:25:03careers in an age of artificial intelligence.Speaking of robots,
0:25:03 > 0:25:08your colleagues have been really rude about her. Is your message that
0:25:08 > 0:25:13they should belt up?The Conservative family, left, right and
0:25:13 > 0:25:20centre, needs to come together in a spirit of mutual respect and look at
0:25:20 > 0:25:23the bigger picture. The bigger picture is showing that after eight
0:25:23 > 0:25:27years in Government we are still neck and neck with the Labour Party
0:25:27 > 0:25:33in the polls, taking seats of them in places like Bolton last week. The
0:25:33 > 0:25:39other thing my colleagues need to remember, last week's news that
0:25:39 > 0:25:44unemployment lowest level for 40 years. New borrowing figures lower
0:25:44 > 0:25:51than expected, figure is higher than expected.So people like you who
0:25:51 > 0:25:54have said we would be in a disastrous position after Brexit
0:25:54 > 0:26:01were wrong.There is a formidable task, as we have all said, in
0:26:01 > 0:26:07negotiating the right deal for the UK."We Are taking two completely
0:26:07 > 0:26:10interconnected underlined economist with high levels of trade and
0:26:10 > 0:26:17selectively moving them hopefully very modestly apart", do you agree?
0:26:17 > 0:26:23That is the Chancellor I think you are quoting.Yes, do you agree with
0:26:23 > 0:26:28him?What I agree on is that the day after we leave, business will be
0:26:28 > 0:26:34able to operate to the same legal framework that it is now.He wasn't
0:26:34 > 0:26:37talking about the transition period, he was talking about the eventual
0:26:37 > 0:26:42end state and said he hoped for the sake of British business that we
0:26:42 > 0:26:45work very closely together.Philip has made it clear he is fully on
0:26:45 > 0:26:50board with the approach the Prime Minister has set out in both her
0:26:50 > 0:26:54Lancaster house and Florence speeches last year, when she talked
0:26:54 > 0:26:59about trying to get a deal in the forthcoming negotiations. We are
0:26:59 > 0:27:03leaving, don't speak in any doubt about that, but we are having a
0:27:03 > 0:27:07future trade agreement that we hope will be as frictionless and as free
0:27:07 > 0:27:12trade as we possibly can with our neighbours next door in Europe.We
0:27:12 > 0:27:16have two interconnected economies and we are selectively moving them
0:27:16 > 0:27:21hopefully very modestly apart, do you agree?I'm not going into
0:27:21 > 0:27:28details about the negotiations.The question is are we converging or
0:27:28 > 0:27:34diverging?Of course we will have the power to choose for ourselves
0:27:34 > 0:27:38whether or not diverged once we have left the supranational legal
0:27:38 > 0:27:42structures of the EU. It is then a matter for a British government and
0:27:42 > 0:27:47British Parliament to decide there may be some areas where we want to
0:27:47 > 0:27:52achieve frankly a similar objective to the EU 27 but to do it in a
0:27:52 > 0:27:56different way. There may be other areas that we decide we have a
0:27:56 > 0:28:00slightly different objective in this area. Others will be trying to do
0:28:00 > 0:28:06the same objective for the same means so it makes sense to work
0:28:06 > 0:28:10closely together.Jacob Rees-Mogg said recently everything is delayed
0:28:10 > 0:28:15for two years, then there is high alignment, you will find by 2022, no
0:28:15 > 0:28:25one well have noticed any difference when we left.Jacob needs to see how
0:28:25 > 0:28:28the negotiations will grow, we are about to start negotiations and I'm
0:28:28 > 0:28:34not going to get into detail about that process. Secondly, the very
0:28:34 > 0:28:39fact we will have left the European Union is a big deal indeed. The bill
0:28:39 > 0:28:44in front of Parliament extinguishes the power of the European Court and
0:28:44 > 0:28:50supranational EU law over the UK. We will have from next year a
0:28:50 > 0:28:54registration system that we have not had before for EU nationals coming
0:28:54 > 0:28:59to this country to register to show they are entitled to be in the UK.
0:28:59 > 0:29:04So why do you think people who watch this closely, like Theresa Villiers
0:29:04 > 0:29:08this morning, thinks it will be no different from where we are at the
0:29:08 > 0:29:14moment, it is a virtual non-Brexit. Don't get me wrong, I want British
0:29:14 > 0:29:18businesses who trade across Europe, and European businesses who trade
0:29:18 > 0:29:23with supply lines into the UK to be as under structured as possible and
0:29:23 > 0:29:32we are aiming to do that while at the same time -- undisrupted, doing
0:29:32 > 0:29:40that while being back in control of our laws here.If you want almost
0:29:40 > 0:29:43undisrupted trade, we have to give the Europeans things for that,
0:29:43 > 0:29:48apparently.
0:29:48 > 0:29:50It is a negotiation, the Prime Minister has said there will be give
0:29:50 > 0:29:55and take on both sides. It is not just about trade. We are ambitious
0:29:55 > 0:29:58about security and police cooperation for the future. Our
0:29:58 > 0:30:01interests and those of our neighbours in Europe are going to be
0:30:01 > 0:30:03similar on so many different issues, we want that deep and special
0:30:03 > 0:30:07partnership Theresa May talked about.One of the great frustrations
0:30:07 > 0:30:10of public life at the moment is that nothing apart from Brexit gets
0:30:10 > 0:30:14discussed. There are lots of other really, really important things.
0:30:14 > 0:30:16Over the last five years, rough sleeping in this country has
0:30:16 > 0:30:22doubled. In the borough in which I live, it has gone up 670%. Why?It
0:30:22 > 0:30:26has gone up for a number of different reasons. Part of this is
0:30:26 > 0:30:31to do with the complexity of the people that often end up sleeping
0:30:31 > 0:30:35rough. You are talking about people with mental health conditions, often
0:30:35 > 0:30:39a history of drug and alcohol problems.Those things have got
0:30:39 > 0:30:43worse?That is why the Government set a very ambitious target to halve
0:30:43 > 0:30:47rough sleeping by 2022 and eliminated by 2027. We have set
0:30:47 > 0:30:52aside large sums of taxpayer money. What have you got wrong up until
0:30:52 > 0:30:59now?What we are doing now to sort it out is that...You must have got
0:30:59 > 0:31:05something wrong?We have backed a new legislation which is enabling
0:31:05 > 0:31:08us, with local authorities in partnership, to address the reasons
0:31:08 > 0:31:12why people become homeless, sleep rough, so that we prevent that
0:31:12 > 0:31:16rather than trying to deal with the problem when it occurs. We are also
0:31:16 > 0:31:19starting this year a number of government funded pilot project in
0:31:19 > 0:31:22different parts of the country to deal with some of these really
0:31:22 > 0:31:28complex cases. You have people that have serious mental health issues, a
0:31:28 > 0:31:34history of offending...We move on. A good test, what works and what
0:31:34 > 0:31:38doesn't.One area where the Government has apparently been very
0:31:38 > 0:31:41bold, you are supporting legislation so that people that want to change
0:31:41 > 0:31:46gender can self identify and stop if I want to become a woman, I identify
0:31:46 > 0:31:57as a woman and I will be treated as a woman. Do you think a map -- trans
0:31:57 > 0:32:00woman is a woman?Somebody that is transgender and has not gone through
0:32:00 > 0:32:06the operation etc, and feels that they were born into the wrong body,
0:32:06 > 0:32:10to use a phrase, deserves respect. We should respect people for who
0:32:10 > 0:32:16they are, however they identify.I completely agree, my question is
0:32:16 > 0:32:20slightly different.The question about the law and where that should
0:32:20 > 0:32:22be, when Justine Greening was in charge of these matters, she was
0:32:22 > 0:32:27preparing a public consultation, now she has left the government. Her
0:32:27 > 0:32:30successors need to take stock of that and decide how they want to
0:32:30 > 0:32:34take it forward.Is it still a live proposal by the Government that
0:32:34 > 0:32:39people can simply self identify as women?Was one of the issues Justine
0:32:39 > 0:32:43was talking about putting out to public consultation. That is still
0:32:43 > 0:32:47the case. There has not yet been that public consultation. These are
0:32:47 > 0:32:50complex issues and I think that it is right that any proposal like this
0:32:50 > 0:32:54should be the subject of proper consultation, with all people with
0:32:54 > 0:32:57an interest in this, to make sure if we make a change in policy we get it
0:32:57 > 0:33:02right.LGBT campaigners say you're voting record on those issues has
0:33:02 > 0:33:07been pretty hostile over the years on gay marriage, on all sorts of
0:33:07 > 0:33:13issues, having a gay, LGBT envoy to Europe and so forth. Do you
0:33:13 > 0:33:17recognise that you have a problem with that community?My voting
0:33:17 > 0:33:22history of free votes on this is a matter of record. I have come at it
0:33:22 > 0:33:29from a additional, Christian point of view. Particularly when civil
0:33:29 > 0:33:31partnerships came in, my own view has changed on that. Looking at how
0:33:31 > 0:33:41gay friends of mine were really affected for the better... I would
0:33:41 > 0:33:43not vote against civil partnerships and that sort of recognition. I
0:33:43 > 0:33:48think it is a settled issue, in any case. What I always try to do, and
0:33:48 > 0:33:52when I was at the Foreign Office... Can I test you one more time on
0:33:52 > 0:34:00whether you think a trans woman is a woman? Are --I think that is a
0:34:00 > 0:34:09matter for her.Her?She should be treated as a woman. But I don't
0:34:09 > 0:34:13spend time thinking about this. I would try to deal with the person in
0:34:13 > 0:34:18front of me, as they are, with respect to that person, whatever
0:34:18 > 0:34:21their background, however they describe themselves. When
0:34:21 > 0:34:27constituents come to see you, as a local MP, I think we try to
0:34:27 > 0:34:30categorise people and put them in pigeonholes. You get into all sorts
0:34:30 > 0:34:33of difficulties.I was asking because it was a government policy.
0:34:33 > 0:34:34Thank you very much.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
0:34:39 > 0:34:45Join us at ten from Newcastle, when we look at the left, does it have a
0:34:45 > 0:34:50problem with anti-Semitism? Lomography, harmless fun or deeply
0:34:50 > 0:34:53damaging to society? Drugs, should places be licensed where it is safe
0:34:53 > 0:35:01for addicts to take them mist and murk -- pornography, is it harmless
0:35:01 > 0:35:07fun would it be damaging to society?
0:35:07 > 0:35:09At the Davos summit, Labour's Shadow
0:35:09 > 0:35:11Chancellor John McDonnell warned the assembled bankers that
0:35:11 > 0:35:14if they didn't change their ways and fast, a political and social
0:35:14 > 0:35:15avalanche was coming.
0:35:15 > 0:35:17So, is the whole market system now effectively bust?
0:35:17 > 0:35:18Or is that ridiculous hyperbole?
0:35:18 > 0:35:22I'm joined now by the Leader of the Labour party, Jeremy Corbyn.
0:35:22 > 0:35:26Welcome. Can I follow on from what was happening at Davos and ask if
0:35:26 > 0:35:31you fundamentally agree with Oxfam that the capitalist system only
0:35:31 > 0:35:36benefits people at the top?The Oxfam report made it clear that 180
0:35:36 > 0:35:41of the 200 global corporations partly put themselves in tax havens,
0:35:41 > 0:35:46that the very richest people's wealth has grown by 700 people in
0:35:46 > 0:35:49one year, while the majority of the rest of the world population are
0:35:49 > 0:35:53either on stagnant wages or many industrial countries, and the
0:35:53 > 0:35:58poorest countries of the world, falling. Oxfam have pointed out some
0:35:58 > 0:36:01very uncomfortable truths to a very self-satisfied elite in Davos and
0:36:01 > 0:36:06John McDonnell was conveying probably an uncomfortable message to
0:36:06 > 0:36:15them.The World Bank says that over 1 billion people have been taken out
0:36:15 > 0:36:19of poverty by the definition of having less than $2 a day, by the
0:36:19 > 0:36:23capitalist system, by the market system.1.2 billion have been taken
0:36:23 > 0:36:28to a slightly higher level than they were before. Taken out of poverty is
0:36:28 > 0:36:34perhaps a little bit generous. Does that mean the free market economy is
0:36:34 > 0:36:38working? No, it means that those people have been taken out of the
0:36:38 > 0:36:46worst poverty they could be in.The driver of the development is the
0:36:46 > 0:36:52economy?It is a combination of trade, a combination of public
0:36:52 > 0:36:55investment, in health, housing and education. The country has had the
0:36:55 > 0:37:01fastest-growing change in the wealth of its individual people, those
0:37:01 > 0:37:05countries are those that invest in health, housing and education.That
0:37:05 > 0:37:10includes China, brought in as a socialist economy, they brought in
0:37:10 > 0:37:13economic reforms and 8 million Chinese have been taken out of
0:37:13 > 0:37:18poverty?I am not sure what you define that as, it is very straight
0:37:18 > 0:37:22driven and organised.Are you going to give us Chinese economy?No,
0:37:22 > 0:37:28absolutely not. But I'm making the point that China has grown massively
0:37:28 > 0:37:33since 1949 and then after the death of Chairman Mao, the Greatly
0:37:33 > 0:37:38Forward, and so forth. It has taken a lot of people out of poverty, but
0:37:38 > 0:37:41there are massive issues of environmental destruction and
0:37:41 > 0:37:45degradation, as well as a massive issue of human rights.Is there
0:37:45 > 0:37:49anything capitalism gets right? Capitalism is a system that has
0:37:49 > 0:37:57evolved, it is a system that is there, it is a system that can ...
0:37:57 > 0:38:02But hasn't got anything right?It does invest, mainly for its own
0:38:02 > 0:38:07benefit. But it does, of course, gets challenged. Isn't that what
0:38:07 > 0:38:10social movements are about? Isn't that what trade unions are about?
0:38:10 > 0:38:15Isn't that what our democracy is about?Has a good socialist, would
0:38:15 > 0:38:18you effectively like the capitalist and free-market system to disappear
0:38:18 > 0:38:22in this country after a few terms of Labour Government?What we want to
0:38:22 > 0:38:28do is deal with the issues as of now, as of people. You asked David
0:38:28 > 0:38:32Liddington about homelessness, disgusting, disgracing and
0:38:32 > 0:38:36unnecessary.What would you do about that in the short term? There is
0:38:36 > 0:38:38house-building and long-term projects that will get it down
0:38:38 > 0:38:42eventually. For those people that are homeless on the streets of
0:38:42 > 0:38:46Camden and elsewhere tonight, what would a Labour Government do?
0:38:46 > 0:38:48Immediately purchase a thousand properties across the country to
0:38:48 > 0:38:51give immediate housing to those people that are currently homeless.
0:38:51 > 0:38:55At the same time, require local authorities to build far more. The
0:38:55 > 0:39:01problem is that homeless people, rough sleeping, they begged to get
0:39:01 > 0:39:06money for a shelter for the night, stay there or a short stay hostel...
0:39:06 > 0:39:11Sorry...Can I finish? I spent time in a hostel discussing this. The
0:39:11 > 0:39:14problem then is move on accommodation. The problem is not
0:39:14 > 0:39:17having an address, so you can claim benefits will get a job.
0:39:17 > 0:39:22Absolutely... You say build more. But at the same time, all across
0:39:22 > 0:39:27London and many parts of the UK, there are great big, glossy glass
0:39:27 > 0:39:31powers being put up to sell flats to wealthy foreigners, and they are not
0:39:31 > 0:39:35selling those flats, they are empty at the moment. Would a Labour
0:39:35 > 0:39:38government put the empty flats that are all around and other homeless
0:39:38 > 0:39:40people together and oblige the people that are owning these flats
0:39:40 > 0:39:44they cannot sell to let homeless people live there?We would give
0:39:44 > 0:39:47local authorities the power to take over copies that are deliberately
0:39:47 > 0:39:51kept vacant. When you have, in the middle of an area where there is a
0:39:51 > 0:39:54lot of housing stress, many people rough sleeping, you get luxury,
0:39:54 > 0:40:02glossy, glistening buildings, sold off plan, two long distant
0:40:02 > 0:40:05deliberately distance investors that might buy and sell that before it is
0:40:05 > 0:40:12even built. Hang on, let's look at social priorities. Many people are
0:40:12 > 0:40:14homeless. Many people are living in overcrowded accommodation. Many
0:40:14 > 0:40:19children cannot leave home because they cannot raise the deposit for a
0:40:19 > 0:40:23private rented flat, no chance of buying or a council house.A classic
0:40:23 > 0:40:26case of the market getting something publicly wrong with ludicrous
0:40:26 > 0:40:30results. What would a Labour government do about it?Intervention
0:40:30 > 0:40:38into the market in a number of ways, building Council properties,
0:40:38 > 0:40:41lifetime secure rent, regulation of the private sector to give longer
0:40:41 > 0:40:44tenancies and give the power to local authorities to do it
0:40:44 > 0:40:48appropriately to their own areas. Thirdly, some kind of government
0:40:48 > 0:40:53backed mortgage scheme to help first-time buyers to buy something.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57My own constituency, the level of home ownership has gone down from
0:40:57 > 0:41:02probably 50% or 60% down to less than 30%.No suggestion of obliging
0:41:02 > 0:41:07pupil at Bill is towers to hand them over?I said earlier that we would
0:41:07 > 0:41:11give local authorities the power to take over deliberately kept vacant
0:41:11 > 0:41:16properties. There is something grossly insulting about the idea you
0:41:16 > 0:41:19build a luxury block, look at the pictures around us of London,
0:41:19 > 0:41:24deliberately keeping it empty, knowing that with property price
0:41:24 > 0:41:29inflation in the investor is going to make 10% or 12% a year.May be
0:41:29 > 0:41:36less these days.Maybe bit less. Surely we have to have a social
0:41:36 > 0:41:39objective and social priority in society?You are not worried about
0:41:39 > 0:41:52talking about social interaction? Once you got a nice little card when
0:41:52 > 0:41:56you joined Labour, public ownership of production and exchange, the
0:41:56 > 0:42:01famous Klaus four. Wouldn't that be a great thing for your supporters?
0:42:01 > 0:42:04We have a statement on the card about common endeavour, it is about
0:42:04 > 0:42:11social justice. It was written during Tony Blair's time. We are
0:42:11 > 0:42:15putting forward, as we did in the election and continue to come a very
0:42:15 > 0:42:20clear set of policy proposals. The people of this country, and a
0:42:20 > 0:42:24Labour, we will deal with homelessness and poverty by bringing
0:42:24 > 0:42:28in £10 an hour Living Wage. We will challenge the gig economy. We will
0:42:28 > 0:42:34challenge insecure work. Above all, we will invest in a growing
0:42:34 > 0:42:38economy...Why did you say proudly that we are the Labour Party, we are
0:42:38 > 0:42:43a socialist party, not a party to manage capitalism, as Tony Benn
0:42:43 > 0:42:50feared the Labour Party have become? It is what we do that is important.
0:42:50 > 0:42:53Inevitably, the European issue, Brexit and so forth, it has been a
0:42:53 > 0:42:58while since we talked about this. Last time, I didn't have very fat on
0:42:58 > 0:43:04your view.I thought you got a long way.I didn't at all. Keir Starmer
0:43:04 > 0:43:09was clearer. I wanted to check that you agree with what he said.Keir
0:43:09 > 0:43:15and I get along fine.Do you agree with him?He said he want absolute
0:43:15 > 0:43:18pop bear maximum possible access to European markets once we leave. He
0:43:18 > 0:43:22has always said we will leave, that suggests we will carry on basically
0:43:22 > 0:43:27mimicking their regulations and ways of doing things in order to secure
0:43:27 > 0:43:30that close trading relationship.
0:43:31 > 0:43:34The point we have discussed frequently is this, the referendum
0:43:34 > 0:43:39gave us the result it did. We wanted to remain and reform, but that ship
0:43:39 > 0:43:43has sailed. What we wanted to do was say that we are going to protect
0:43:43 > 0:43:46jobs, the supply chains on both sides of the channel. There has to
0:43:46 > 0:43:50be the closest possible trading relationship with Europe. There has
0:43:50 > 0:43:56to be a tariff free access to European markets and tariff free
0:43:56 > 0:44:00access to European trade.That is the objective?That is where we are
0:44:00 > 0:44:04going.To get that, we need to do certain things in this country. We
0:44:04 > 0:44:08have to agree that our regulations are going to continue being very
0:44:08 > 0:44:11close to EU regulations, otherwise they don't want that kind of
0:44:11 > 0:44:16relationship.We have said that all along. If you have a regulatory
0:44:16 > 0:44:19environment, which some conservatives want in this country,
0:44:19 > 0:44:22undermining of consumer protection rights, for example, meaning we
0:44:22 > 0:44:29would be importing food products that are made to unsafe standards,
0:44:29 > 0:44:32that sort of thing, clearly that is undermining Europe. We would have a
0:44:32 > 0:44:34regulatory environment that is commensurate with the European
0:44:34 > 0:44:39levels of regulate. Obviously, half of our trade is with Europe.Keir
0:44:39 > 0:44:43Starmer also said we may need to pay them some money for access to that
0:44:43 > 0:44:48market, as Norway does. Do you agree?That is some way down the
0:44:48 > 0:44:53line.Would you agree on principle? At some way down the line if we need
0:44:53 > 0:44:57to do that or not. The point has to be about the regulatory environment.
0:44:57 > 0:45:02Above all, able to influence the regulations that come. That means a
0:45:02 > 0:45:04trading relationship with Europe that gives us the opportunity to
0:45:04 > 0:45:09negotiate. Our objectives are that... There are a lot of jobs in
0:45:09 > 0:45:13this country dependent on trade with Europe.Absolutely. The final thing
0:45:13 > 0:45:16that Keir Starmer said to me was that there has to be an easy
0:45:16 > 0:45:19movement of people, not free movement, because that is part of
0:45:19 > 0:45:25the EU, but easy movement of people after we leave, between the
0:45:25 > 0:45:30continent and the UK?
0:45:30 > 0:45:33The problem with undermining workers' rights has been a serious
0:45:33 > 0:45:40one so there will be an enforcement of the agency agenda that the EU has
0:45:40 > 0:45:44put forward and preventing wholescale workers brought in to
0:45:44 > 0:45:51undercut and undermine.So that means people...Then you can have
0:45:51 > 0:45:58easy movement.Indeed, and we have a recruitment crisis at the NHS now
0:45:58 > 0:46:00particularly of many nurses from Poland and other countries that have
0:46:00 > 0:46:06often traditional come to work in this country.We are making
0:46:06 > 0:46:10progress, you have agreed to easy movement, you might have to pay some
0:46:10 > 0:46:17money...The point is... I love the Norwegians, they are wonderful, they
0:46:17 > 0:46:22gave me a Christmas present. What we want to do is have that serious
0:46:22 > 0:46:26economic relationship with Europe but the referendum happened, and it
0:46:26 > 0:46:31happened for a multiplicity of reasons, one of which was the lack
0:46:31 > 0:46:37of investment by everybody in post-industrial areas where there is
0:46:37 > 0:46:39a gig economy, insecure work and deep levels of poverty and unless
0:46:39 > 0:46:44this country faces up to the inequalities between north and
0:46:44 > 0:46:47south, the left behind communities and the poverty they face and the
0:46:47 > 0:46:52sense of hopelessness in those communities, we have got some bad
0:46:52 > 0:46:55times ahead.But now we have this big national choice about what kind
0:46:55 > 0:46:59of relationship we have with the EU and I'm trying to establish where
0:46:59 > 0:47:05the Labour would like to end up on that and it sounds like you by and
0:47:05 > 0:47:10large agree with Keir Starmer.We recognise the result of the
0:47:10 > 0:47:14referendum, and we are able to influence the regulations which we
0:47:14 > 0:47:19will or will not enforced.We won't be able to influence their
0:47:19 > 0:47:22regulations of course.Know but with the trade relationship we can
0:47:22 > 0:47:30discuss what we want.Would you want to keep Britain inside the customs
0:47:30 > 0:47:35union?We would want a form of customs union, but no because it
0:47:35 > 0:47:40would require being a member of the EU which we are not.This could be a
0:47:40 > 0:47:44member of the customs union without being a member of the EU.We need to
0:47:44 > 0:47:48make sure any agreement with the EU gives a chance to influence the
0:47:48 > 0:47:53situation we are in and the trading relationships we want. I would want
0:47:53 > 0:47:57to see trade relations with the rest of the world going on and increasing
0:47:57 > 0:48:03of course but also I would want to see conditions put on those,
0:48:03 > 0:48:09environmental conditions, human rights protections.So it would be a
0:48:09 > 0:48:16different kind of customs union. Have that within some form but often
0:48:16 > 0:48:20not enforce. Surely we want to be an influence for good in the world.
0:48:20 > 0:48:24Your members want to be inside the single market and the customs union,
0:48:24 > 0:48:29and they want a second referendum. You always say you listen to your
0:48:29 > 0:48:33members, why don't you listen to them about these things?There are
0:48:33 > 0:48:38numbers of opinion polls that have been done, yes the membership of the
0:48:38 > 0:48:43Labour Party overwhelmingly voted to remain, overwhelmingly Labour Party
0:48:43 > 0:48:48supporters voted to remain but the third of them didn't. I want to win
0:48:48 > 0:48:52the next election, I want to bring people together. We want to be a
0:48:52 > 0:48:55government that works for the whole country, hence the position we have
0:48:55 > 0:49:00adopted which is of a trade relationship with Europe and social
0:49:00 > 0:49:04justice in Britain.Let's come back to the fundamental question of the
0:49:04 > 0:49:08single market. You have always said Britain cannot be a member of the
0:49:08 > 0:49:13single market, in which case what about Norway, that is a member of
0:49:13 > 0:49:17the single market.Norway accepts all of the rules of the single
0:49:17 > 0:49:20market, cannot influence them whatsoever, and is a rather
0:49:20 > 0:49:24different economy to hours because it is heavily dependent on mainly
0:49:24 > 0:49:33oil and we are not. The Norway model is not an exact one. I spent a lot
0:49:33 > 0:49:35of time discussing this issue with the Norwegian Labour Party. That is
0:49:35 > 0:49:39their position but they do have an economy that is dependent very
0:49:39 > 0:49:52heavily on oil.Could we join Efta? We could work with Efta countries
0:49:52 > 0:49:55but the principle has to be the trade relationship.Can I turn to
0:49:55 > 0:50:03the question of a second referendum, even Nigel Farage so that might be
0:50:03 > 0:50:07an appropriate thing, David Davis said if you cannot change your mind
0:50:07 > 0:50:11what is democracy forks, so why is the Labour Party not in favour of a
0:50:11 > 0:50:16second referendum?What we asked for an Parliament has been a meaningful
0:50:16 > 0:50:24vote at the end of it. This bill was an undemocratic power grab by the
0:50:24 > 0:50:28Government, we are not asking for a second referendum.Let's move to
0:50:28 > 0:50:34another big area at the moment which is the NHS. John McDonnell wants an
0:50:34 > 0:50:39emergency budget for the NHS if you win the election. Is it not the case
0:50:39 > 0:50:43the NHS doesn't need an emergency budget, it needs a really serious
0:50:43 > 0:50:49new plant to fund it properly over decades and that requires looking
0:50:49 > 0:50:58again at the way it is funded, earmarked taxes or whatever?
0:50:58 > 0:51:00earmarked taxes or whatever?A Labour government would invest
0:51:00 > 0:51:09immediately in the NHS, we were putting 40 billion -- we would put
0:51:09 > 0:51:17in 40 billion, stop privatising NHS services and look at the contracts
0:51:17 > 0:51:23which are costing vast amounts of money for each hospital which has
0:51:23 > 0:51:29gone into a PFI.Do you think a self identified transgender woman is a
0:51:29 > 0:51:35woman?Yes, the position of the party is that where you have self
0:51:35 > 0:51:41identified as a woman, then you are treated as a woman, yes.So what is
0:51:41 > 0:51:44your message, there's a lot of feminists including old friends of
0:51:44 > 0:51:47yours like Linda Baros who are worried that the elaborate structure
0:51:47 > 0:51:52created by the Labour Party to ensure there are more women MPs and
0:51:52 > 0:51:56push women further up through the Labour Party is in some way being
0:51:56 > 0:52:03compromised by this?I'm happy to meet and talk with them. The point
0:52:03 > 0:52:06is where there is self identification, and as Isabel
0:52:06 > 0:52:09pointed out in your discussion at the start of the programme, these
0:52:09 > 0:52:14people have been through a big decision, a big process, a big
0:52:14 > 0:52:19trauma, let's look at the human beings in front of us.So whatever
0:52:19 > 0:52:24concerns feminists have about women only short lists, that should be
0:52:24 > 0:52:29ignored?No, let's talk to them about it and find some way forward.
0:52:29 > 0:52:38But if your mind is made up...My mind is to look at
0:52:39 > 0:52:41mind is to look at the person in front of me, that is their
0:52:41 > 0:52:43identification and it should be respected.Can I move on to what's
0:52:43 > 0:52:45happening inside the party because they raised more than £20,000 to
0:52:45 > 0:52:49campaign on this issue, is your message is that they should stop
0:52:49 > 0:52:55raising that?No, people are free to raise these issues and have that
0:52:55 > 0:52:58discussion. We will have that discussion and that debate. The
0:52:58 > 0:53:02whole point has to be about the identity and the rights of the
0:53:02 > 0:53:11individual.We were talking about Linda Belos, she said Labour will
0:53:11 > 0:53:20lose thousands of women members, people who grew up with the
0:53:20 > 0:53:24privilege of being boys and men are not women.I would like to talk to
0:53:24 > 0:53:28lender about this, I respect the views she has put the position of
0:53:28 > 0:53:35the party is that self identification is what it is.Let's
0:53:35 > 0:53:40move a foreign issue, you have been reluctant to condemn the Government
0:53:40 > 0:53:46of Iran. Amnesty international... You are spending too much time
0:53:46 > 0:53:56reading The Mail, do you know that? I was reading a post about an event
0:53:58 > 0:54:03celebrating...I was on a delegation to Iran in the company of a number
0:54:03 > 0:54:09of other MPs including Jack Straw. I spent the whole of the time at that
0:54:09 > 0:54:14delegation discussing the nuclear issue and human rights. I raised
0:54:14 > 0:54:18human rights at every conceivable opportunity during that. I think
0:54:18 > 0:54:23Iran and the nuclear deal is good and welcome but the issues of human
0:54:23 > 0:54:32rights abuse in Iran of executions, of... Heading, torture.
0:54:33 > 0:54:37of... Heading, torture. Their father has to be human rights demands made
0:54:37 > 0:54:43on the Government.You took money from Iran.A very long time ago I
0:54:43 > 0:54:49did some programmes for press TV. I ceased to do any programmes when
0:54:49 > 0:54:55they treated the green movement the way they did and I also, and all of
0:54:55 > 0:54:59those occasions, made my voice clear about human rights abuses because I
0:54:59 > 0:55:03want to lead a government that puts human rights at the centre of its
0:55:03 > 0:55:07policy, no matter how uncomfortable it is, with any government around
0:55:07 > 0:55:11the world and I have consistently raised those issues with every world
0:55:11 > 0:55:16leader I have met.You have been very outspoken about human rights
0:55:16 > 0:55:22abuse in Saudi Arabia, will you be as outspoken about what's going on
0:55:22 > 0:55:32in Iran?Yes.You remember the woman who took off her hijab in the middle
0:55:32 > 0:55:35of the street because she did not want to be told what to wear, and
0:55:35 > 0:55:40she has now disappeared.I want you to respect human rights, I want you
0:55:40 > 0:55:44to be part of and respect the human rights Council of the United Nations
0:55:44 > 0:55:48and weak as a Labour government will not walk away from the European
0:55:48 > 0:55:53Convention on human rights or the human rights Council. Human rights
0:55:53 > 0:55:57is something that was fought for by ordinary people, defended by brave
0:55:57 > 0:56:01human rights defenders around the world. I am committed human rights
0:56:01 > 0:56:09will be the core of our foreign policy.You thought at one point you
0:56:09 > 0:56:12would be Prime Minister by now, will you be Prime Minister by next year?
0:56:12 > 0:56:15We will have to see but if there is an election, bring it on, we will do
0:56:15 > 0:56:17it.
0:56:17 > 0:56:18Coming up on the Sunday Politics,
0:56:18 > 0:56:20Sarah Smith talks to the former Conservative Cabinet
0:56:20 > 0:56:22minister Theresa Villiers, who has concerns about
0:56:22 > 0:56:23the Government's Brexit policy.
0:56:23 > 0:56:25And the Shadow Cabinet minister Jon Trickett will be talking
0:56:25 > 0:56:27about the direction of travel in the Labour Party.
0:56:27 > 0:56:30That's the Sunday Politics here on BBC One at 11 o'clock.
0:56:30 > 0:56:31Almost out of time.
0:56:31 > 0:56:34Join me again at the same time next Sunday, when I'll be talking
0:56:34 > 0:56:37to the Sinn Fein leader, Gerry Adams, as he steps down as
0:56:37 > 0:56:38president of his party.
0:56:38 > 0:56:41For now, we have one of the most beautiful classical songs ever
0:56:41 > 0:56:42composed for the male voice.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44This song from 1904 was written for that
0:56:44 > 0:56:46era's finest tenor, the great Caruso.
0:56:46 > 0:56:48Ever since, this piece has become a concert favourite.
0:56:48 > 0:56:50Joseph Calleja, currently starring in Tosca at Covent Garden,
0:56:50 > 0:56:53has a new album out on Friday.
0:56:53 > 0:56:55He's here today to perform "Matinnata", which translates
0:56:55 > 0:56:57quite appropriately as "Morning".
0:56:57 > 0:57:00Good morning.
0:57:12 > 0:57:14# L'aurora di bianco vestita
0:57:14 > 0:57:17# Gia l'uscio dischiude al gran sol
0:57:17 > 0:57:21# Di gia con le rosee sue dita
0:57:21 > 0:57:27# Carezza de' fiori lo stuol!
0:57:27 > 0:57:30# Commosso da un fremito arcano
0:57:30 > 0:57:35# Intorno il creato gia par
0:57:35 > 0:57:40# E tu non ti desti, ed invano
0:57:40 > 0:57:47# Mi sto qui dolente a cantar
0:57:47 > 0:57:52# Metti anche tu la veste bianca
0:57:52 > 0:57:55# E schiudi l'uscio al tuo cantor!
0:57:55 > 0:58:03# Ove non sei la luce manca
0:58:05 > 0:58:13# Ove tu sei nasce l'amor
0:58:28 > 0:58:34# Ove non sei la luce manca
0:58:34 > 0:58:42# Ove tu sei nasce l'amor