0:00:06 > 0:00:07Good morning.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10It's hard to imagine a more disgraceful story.
0:00:10 > 0:00:13Haiti, 2011, a hideous natural disaster.
0:00:13 > 0:00:19Aid workers, paid for by you, employed by Oxfam,
0:00:19 > 0:00:25arrive and indulge in an orgy of prostitution with local survivors.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27This is a terrible betrayal.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30Oxfam, one of our great international institutions,
0:00:30 > 0:00:32is tottering, but what of the Government?
0:00:32 > 0:00:33What did ministers know?
0:00:33 > 0:00:41And when?
0:00:56 > 0:00:58In her first major television interview since being appointed as
0:00:58 > 0:01:00International Development Secretary, Penny Mordaunt joins us.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02We're also promised a major explanation of the Government's
0:01:02 > 0:01:05Brexit strategy very soon,
0:01:05 > 0:01:10we're going to get Labour reaction
0:01:10 > 0:01:12from the Shadow Communities Secretary, Andrew Gwynne.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15And to discuss whether the tectonic plates of Brexit are now really
0:01:15 > 0:01:16shifting in Parliament,
0:01:16 > 0:01:23the Tory Remainer Anna Soubry, and her Labour friend, Chuka Umunna.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29Plus, in the latest of our series of leaders interviews,
0:01:29 > 0:01:30Henry Bolton, currently the Leader of UKIP.
0:01:30 > 0:01:33His party have called an emergency meeting for this week
0:01:33 > 0:01:36and they're out for his blood.
0:01:36 > 0:01:37Plus, the Mods are back.
0:01:37 > 0:01:45Reinvented by The Spitfires.
0:01:54 > 0:01:55Makes me feel very nostalgic!
0:01:55 > 0:01:57Reviewing the news, the former Labour adviser and stand-up comic,
0:01:57 > 0:01:59Ayesha Hazarika, and the broadcaster and enthusiastic Brexiteer
0:01:59 > 0:02:00Julia Hartley-Brewer.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03But first, the headlines with Ben Thompson.
0:02:04 > 0:02:05Good morning.
0:02:05 > 0:02:07The International Development Secretary Penny Mordaunt has warned
0:02:07 > 0:02:09overseas aid charities that they will lose government money
0:02:09 > 0:02:13if they don't ensure vulnerable people are properly protected.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17She described the behaviour of some of Oxfam's workers in Haiti,
0:02:17 > 0:02:19who were accused of using prostitutes after the 2010
0:02:19 > 0:02:22earthquake, as "horrific".
0:02:22 > 0:02:24The charity is also facing new allegations about some
0:02:24 > 0:02:25of its workers in Chad.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28Andy Moore reports.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38After Haiti, now new allegations about the behaviour
0:02:38 > 0:02:40of some Oxfam workers in Chad in Central Africa.
0:02:40 > 0:02:42They date back to 2006 and also involve prostitutes.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45The head of mission in Chad at the time was the same man
0:02:45 > 0:02:47who resigned from Oxfam five years later
0:02:47 > 0:02:48because of the scandal in Haiti.
0:02:48 > 0:02:51Oxfam said it was shocked and dismayed about the latest
0:02:51 > 0:02:52revelations from Chad.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55It said it couldn't corroborate the information but it highlighted
0:02:55 > 0:03:00on acceptable behaviour by a small number of people.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04The International Development Secretary, Penny Mordaunt,
0:03:04 > 0:03:07has now sent a strong warning to all UK charities receiving public
0:03:07 > 0:03:10money that those funds will be withdrawn unless they can prove
0:03:10 > 0:03:11they are cooperating fully with the authorities
0:03:11 > 0:03:16on safeguarding issues.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18She called the behaviour by some Oxfam workers in Haiti horrific
0:03:18 > 0:03:21and said it was just one example of a wider issue on
0:03:21 > 0:03:29which her department was already taking action.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37Oxfam says that after Haiti it set up a dedicated safeguarding team
0:03:37 > 0:03:38to deal with such issues.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40Andy Moore, BBC News.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42And you can see an interview with the International
0:03:42 > 0:03:44Development Secretary Penny Mordaunt later in this programme.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46More than a third of child deaths and serious injuries caused
0:03:46 > 0:03:49by neglect in England are linked to parents who have a problem
0:03:49 > 0:03:51with alcohol, according to a new parliamentary report.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53The study, which was commissioned by a group
0:03:53 > 0:03:56of MPs, also found that nearly all councils in England have cut
0:03:56 > 0:03:57funding to alcohol support services.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00The Department of Health said it was working to see what support
0:04:00 > 0:04:07it could offer to families.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13Theresa May will deliver a major speech within the next three weeks
0:04:13 > 0:04:15outlining the future relationship Britain wants to have
0:04:15 > 0:04:16with the EU after Brexit.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18The Prime Minister will outline what the government
0:04:18 > 0:04:20is seeking in relation to security, trade and workers' rights.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23Other senior ministers are also due to make speeches on Brexit,
0:04:23 > 0:04:31including the Foreign Secretary, Boris johnson, on Wednesday.
0:04:33 > 0:04:34-- Boris Johnson.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36And Boris Johnson has met the Myanmar leader
0:04:36 > 0:04:38Aung San Suu Kyi for talks,
0:04:38 > 0:04:39a day after saying Rohingya refugees
0:04:39 > 0:04:41should be allowed a safe and dignified return.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43Mr Johnson shook hands with Aung San Suu Kyi
0:04:43 > 0:04:45in the capital Nay Pyi Taw.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47Nearly 700,000 Rohingya Muslims have crossed the border
0:04:47 > 0:04:48into neighbouring Bangladesh,
0:04:48 > 0:04:50after a crackdown by the Burmese military.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54That's all from me.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56The next news on BBC One is at 12.15.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03Many thanks.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06Now to the papers.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10The big story is Oxfam and the sex workers, broken by The Times,
0:05:10 > 0:05:14successfully followed up by the Sunday Times in a major way today,
0:05:14 > 0:05:20Mail on Sunday, same sort of story about Jo Cox's former husband. The
0:05:20 > 0:05:26Observer, again, Oxfam faces fresh claims overstaffed paying for sex,
0:05:26 > 0:05:31major story about private water pay-out, Hubbard scandal, says
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Labour, which will renationalise the water industry if it comes back to
0:05:34 > 0:05:39power. Sunday Telegraph, from the other side of the Brexit debate,
0:05:39 > 0:05:44Michel Barnier's aggression, very aggressive in this week, in many
0:05:44 > 0:05:48views, risking a walk out with a beginning of the fracturing of
0:05:48 > 0:05:51opinion on the European side of negotiations, you do not often hear
0:05:51 > 0:05:57about that. Gung ho from the Sunday express. Lots to talk about. We will
0:05:57 > 0:06:03start with the Sunday Times front page.This is an absolutely
0:06:03 > 0:06:09disgraceful and shocking story, and it now comes to light that up to 120
0:06:09 > 0:06:12workers for Britain's leading charities have been accused of
0:06:12 > 0:06:18sexual abuse, Priti Patel, former Defence Secretary, has said that she
0:06:18 > 0:06:25fears there has been a culture of predatory paedophilia going on in
0:06:25 > 0:06:30the aid sector.She says public money should stop.Tommy that is a
0:06:30 > 0:06:33stretch too far, we should not weaponise this to make a big
0:06:33 > 0:06:38argument about whatever the rights or wrongs are. -- to me that is a
0:06:38 > 0:06:41stretch too far. When
0:06:41 > 0:06:46-- when charities go into an area, when there has been war, famine,
0:06:46 > 0:06:49disaster, people are vulnerable and the idea that people are exploiting
0:06:49 > 0:06:58vulnerable people for sex is absolutely disgraceful.Not
0:06:58 > 0:07:04absolutely disgraceful.Not just Haiti, there are other examples, in
0:07:04 > 0:07:10Chad, and not just Oxfam, it is also Save the Children.The charity
0:07:10 > 0:07:13sector should hold themselves to a higher standard, and no sector, it
0:07:13 > 0:07:18is not good for the charity sector to say, we did not talk about it
0:07:18 > 0:07:22because we were worried it might affect donations, whether you are
0:07:22 > 0:07:28the Catholic Church, politics, charity, you should not be above
0:07:28 > 0:07:31scrutiny, we should investigate these without fear or favour.That
0:07:31 > 0:07:34is when you have a difficult situation, Priti Patel, former
0:07:34 > 0:07:38International Development Secretary, this is a great political excuse not
0:07:38 > 0:07:44to fund them, that is exactly it, that is exactly why we would not...
0:07:44 > 0:07:47This happened with Jimmy Savile at the BBC and the Roman Catholic
0:07:47 > 0:07:51Church, again and again, the idea of protecting the reputation of the
0:07:51 > 0:07:55organisation that overall does good, in some of these scenarios, that
0:07:55 > 0:07:59that is more important than a child prostitute in Haiti not being
0:07:59 > 0:08:02exploited and we have to get to grips with this. If you are a
0:08:02 > 0:08:07predatory paedophile, working for a charity would be a really sensible
0:08:07 > 0:08:11decision.When you have a big story like this, everyone goes in
0:08:11 > 0:08:15different directions searching for different aspects of sex problems,
0:08:15 > 0:08:19in the charity sector, front page of the Mail on Sunday.This is sad.
0:08:19 > 0:08:28Allegations against Brendan Cox, the widower of Jo Cox, he denies the
0:08:28 > 0:08:32allegations, we do have to think, I think the media often time pick and
0:08:32 > 0:08:40choose who they will expose in their idea, allegations of true. And for
0:08:40 > 0:08:46political value and news value and we really need to being looked at.
0:08:46 > 0:08:51-- allegations whether true or false. These are politicised things,
0:08:51 > 0:08:56and we need to be very careful about people's anonymity and I think that
0:08:56 > 0:09:00if you are going to be naming one person as opposed to another person
0:09:00 > 0:09:05and picking and choosing. Make very clear why you are doing it.You must
0:09:05 > 0:09:09tread hugely carefully with these things, but sometimes, revealing the
0:09:09 > 0:09:14name of somebody brings forward other victims.Other people.There
0:09:14 > 0:09:20is a very fine line.But we have seen instances where people have
0:09:20 > 0:09:23taken their lives, people having careers ruined, MPs who do not know
0:09:23 > 0:09:28what the charges are against them. Also remember the thousands of
0:09:28 > 0:09:31people that never get justice and never have their voice heard.We
0:09:31 > 0:09:35could talk all morning about this and it would be interesting but we
0:09:35 > 0:09:41must move on. Michel Barnier, very interesting.It is, the Sunday
0:09:41 > 0:09:48Telegraph has leaned hard into Michel Barnier and they say that he
0:09:48 > 0:09:52has been overreaching in terms of language.This is the punishment
0:09:52 > 0:09:57clause, if we do not agree to his deal on the transition.And there is
0:09:57 > 0:10:01a lot of briefing and counter briefing, and what they are saying
0:10:01 > 0:10:07is, diplomats, from a number of countries, are questioning his
0:10:07 > 0:10:11stats. You would expect me to say this, I am on the other side from
0:10:11 > 0:10:14Julia, but this is what the cut and thrust of negotiations are like, you
0:10:14 > 0:10:24cannot have a Gwyneth Paltrow conscious uncoupling(!) it is a
0:10:24 > 0:10:28dirty businessLAUGHTER But do you accept that we pore over
0:10:28 > 0:10:32every split, every problem on the British government side, every
0:10:32 > 0:10:36inconsistency but on the other side, major nations disagree with each
0:10:36 > 0:10:39other about the terms of Brexit and dress between the national capitals
0:10:39 > 0:10:44on one hand and Michel Barnier's team on the other and we do not very
0:10:44 > 0:10:51often report this.The BBC does not often report its! There is a major
0:10:51 > 0:10:53issue, believing that everybody at the EU speaks as though through the
0:10:53 > 0:10:58Word of God, there is a major issue, we have got an organisation in the
0:10:58 > 0:11:08EU which is happily doing economic damage to its own member states...
0:11:08 > 0:11:12We are potentially doing economic damage to ourselves.Keep watching
0:11:12 > 0:11:16next week.You know that I always watch the show. This is a spread by
0:11:16 > 0:11:21Tim Shipman in the Sunday Times. Besieged Theresa May pressed to put
0:11:21 > 0:11:26Brexit meet on the cabinet table. What is happening, as we see, speech
0:11:26 > 0:11:31after speech. -- meat. Newspaper column of the newspaper column,
0:11:31 > 0:11:36Remainers and Brexiteers in the cabinet, and outside, they are
0:11:36 > 0:11:41constantly trying to get the Prime Minister's ear, it is almost like
0:11:41 > 0:11:44Donald Trump, never has spoken with her last gets the official policy.
0:11:44 > 0:11:50The general view, we want some signal from Theresa May about what
0:11:50 > 0:11:56she wants to do.She has...!You does not know what she wants, that
0:11:56 > 0:12:00is not true.There has been signals, then she goes back on them.Excuse
0:12:00 > 0:12:06me, very brief word, I'm really sorry, but, certainly, according to
0:12:06 > 0:12:09the Sunday express, we are about to hear what she thinks, there will be
0:12:09 > 0:12:13a statement coming shortly, and then a series of expect speeches by
0:12:13 > 0:12:18cabinet ministers laying out what they want for these negotiations,
0:12:18 > 0:12:23interestingly, Philip Hammond is not among them.She has had two meetings
0:12:23 > 0:12:27this week with her in a war cabinet and never has there been a better
0:12:27 > 0:12:31title for a working group, the problem is, they are still
0:12:31 > 0:12:35fundamentally split over what kind of Brexit they want. Whether they
0:12:35 > 0:12:39want to have a diverging Brexit, whether they want something much
0:12:39 > 0:12:46more aligned. They have still not come to...We are wasting time on
0:12:46 > 0:12:50this. Well...Speech from Hammond, knee gave a speech in Davos but the
0:12:50 > 0:12:56less we hear from him, the better, also for his own career! -- he gave
0:12:56 > 0:13:01a speech in Davos.At the end of this programme, we have Spitfires
0:13:01 > 0:13:06playing, they have a justice for Grenfell sign on their speaker, but
0:13:06 > 0:13:12this is a different kind of tower block.Horrific tragedy is and is of
0:13:12 > 0:13:16Grenfell, need to be learned, but we are failing to learn them in the
0:13:16 > 0:13:20design of these residential towers, huge building being done, the worry
0:13:20 > 0:13:25is, it is supposed to be built with only a single staircase providing an
0:13:25 > 0:13:32escape from some of the highest floors. A spokesman for the safety
0:13:32 > 0:13:35network says that it is extraordinary that we are in this
0:13:35 > 0:13:40situation, very tall buildings with one fire escape. The truth is, we
0:13:40 > 0:13:45are building up in London, and... The beautiful photograph behind you,
0:13:45 > 0:13:50London is full of fast towers, some of them have only a single staircase
0:13:50 > 0:13:58to get out, that is terrifying. -- vast towers.People believe this is
0:13:58 > 0:14:02an attack on the poor, but rich or poor, this is not about poor, not
0:14:02 > 0:14:07about just Grenfell Tower, it is across all buildings. A lot of talk
0:14:07 > 0:14:12recently about pupils cheating, the advent of the mobile phone, maybe
0:14:12 > 0:14:16you heard it, I did not have it in my day. You had to write on your
0:14:16 > 0:14:20hand! Thousands of teachers caught cheating, this says a lot about how
0:14:20 > 0:14:25we view exams, it used to be you would have an idea of how someone
0:14:25 > 0:14:29good someone was as a standard but now it is a route to something else
0:14:29 > 0:14:34and everyone must get top grades, we no longer see them as a factual
0:14:34 > 0:14:38representation of ability so it is OK to cheat.Very different mindset.
0:14:38 > 0:14:44A lot of people get super coached for their exams.Down to one final
0:14:44 > 0:14:49story. You can choose between ice hockey and...I think we are going
0:14:49 > 0:14:53to do ice hockey, the Winter Olympics going on, but nobody really
0:14:53 > 0:14:57cares because it is all about North Korea and South Korea.Really
0:14:57 > 0:15:01interesting, North Korea making as nice as North Korea ever makes!
0:15:01 > 0:15:07Their diplomacy, there... They have made all the attention onto them.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12Kim
0:15:12 > 0:15:17Kim Jong -- Kim Jong-un has sent his little sister, I like to call her
0:15:17 > 0:15:21Lil Kim(!) and I would love it if she defected, if she stayed in South
0:15:21 > 0:15:26Korea!We all think it is a little bit of a joke but at the end, North
0:15:26 > 0:15:28Korea, murderous state, nasty dictator, outplaying the diplomacy
0:15:28 > 0:15:34of South Korea, China, Japan and America!Remember, this could be an
0:15:34 > 0:15:38important first step, the only way to calm down the temperature in
0:15:38 > 0:15:41North Korea, diplomacy with South Korea, so hopefully, this could be a
0:15:41 > 0:15:48beginning of a thawing in relations. Started with the ice hockey.We had
0:15:48 > 0:15:53ping-pong diplomacy in the 1970s.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55Now, if they were going to make a soap
0:15:55 > 0:15:57opera about UKIP leaders, they'd have to show it
0:15:57 > 0:15:58after the watershed.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01In real life, in the latest episode, Henry Bolton has left his wife
0:16:01 > 0:16:04and two small children over Christmas for a young
0:16:04 > 0:16:06model named Jo Marney, who sent a stream of offensive text
0:16:06 > 0:16:08messages saying the most racist things possible
0:16:08 > 0:16:10about Meghan Markle, shortly to marry Prince Harry.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12Unimpressed, his party are holding a special meeting this week
0:16:12 > 0:16:15where Mr Bolton is going to have to plead for his job,
0:16:15 > 0:16:17and convince them his relationship with Ms Marney is over.
0:16:17 > 0:16:23He's with me now.
0:16:23 > 0:16:28Are you still in love with her? There are strong affections, yes.
0:16:28 > 0:16:33Your party would like to hear that the relationship is over but you
0:16:33 > 0:16:37can't say that.That isn't true. There was a vote of no-confidence.
0:16:37 > 0:16:41There was a range of reasons. The general consensus was, I mean, that
0:16:41 > 0:16:47there was a problem with my judgment around that whole episode. But the
0:16:47 > 0:16:51point is that actually we are off and we have been for a long time.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55Off the field in terms of the debate on the European Union. What we
0:16:55 > 0:16:58should be doing is shaping the future of this country's
0:16:58 > 0:17:05independence. That is what we should be focusing on. Not focusing on
0:17:05 > 0:17:09private messages that had nothing to do with me and I had no means of
0:17:09 > 0:17:14knowing about them.Very extreme messages. You are still in touch.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17Absolutely. This is a live relationship.
0:17:19 > 0:17:23That isn't the point. I'm the leader of the political party that brought
0:17:23 > 0:17:26around the referendum, that was partly instrumental in bringing
0:17:26 > 0:17:30about the result. We have a responsibility to the British people
0:17:30 > 0:17:34to project politics into the debate to shape the future of this country.
0:17:34 > 0:17:39That's what I'm 110% focused on.I'm asking you this because your party
0:17:39 > 0:17:43are concerned. You said the relationship was on hold. It's no
0:17:43 > 0:17:48longer on hold, is it?If you'll excuse me, what the party is
0:17:48 > 0:17:51concerned about is unifying and projecting its politics. For very
0:17:51 > 0:17:56long time now, way beyond when I came leader, all of the members have
0:17:56 > 0:18:05known that the organisation of the party needed an overhaul. That's
0:18:05 > 0:18:09been going on for the best part of a year. From way before I was elected
0:18:09 > 0:18:13leader. It's those things that need to be turned around. The priority
0:18:13 > 0:18:17for me has been to organise the party and that doesn't happen
0:18:17 > 0:18:21overnight.You say the party are not interested in Vista. This is what
0:18:21 > 0:18:26Ben Walker, one your contenders said, if it's true that they are
0:18:26 > 0:18:31still an item and I have no reason to doubt they are, it's another kick
0:18:31 > 0:18:35in the teeth to hard-working grassroots members of Ukip. The fact
0:18:35 > 0:18:39he continues to associate with this woman and her abhorrent views
0:18:39 > 0:18:43demonstrate a disastrous lack of judgment and complete disregard for
0:18:43 > 0:18:47the party's reputation, which he has managed to single-handedly
0:18:47 > 0:18:55destroyed. His only achievement to date.He is on the back foot.He
0:18:55 > 0:19:00sounds to be on the front foot. Absolutely not. The coming days will
0:19:00 > 0:19:04prove that. He's been subversive and disruptive in his activities towards
0:19:04 > 0:19:10the party. Along with other people. One of the purposes, and I was fully
0:19:10 > 0:19:17transparent with this before I was elected leader, before the campaign,
0:19:17 > 0:19:22the primary task has got to be reuniting the party. To do away with
0:19:22 > 0:19:25the factorisation which has risen up over a long period of time.It'll be
0:19:25 > 0:19:30difficult for you to do that. Incredibly. The choice now facing
0:19:30 > 0:19:39the membership is either continue with the agenda of reform, but that
0:19:39 > 0:19:44decision will be made on the 17th.I will not read up the tweets of your
0:19:44 > 0:19:48girlfriend because they are so offensive. They include things like
0:19:48 > 0:19:55Meghan Markle's seed will taint our Royal family. You have described --
0:19:55 > 0:19:58she has also described Muslims as the cancer of this earth. You said
0:19:58 > 0:20:04there was some context to them which will be revealed in time. What
0:20:04 > 0:20:12context could there possibly be? They were doctored.But the source
0:20:12 > 0:20:18of the tweets was power.The person you make them public, I mean, he
0:20:18 > 0:20:25doctored them. It's the person who makes these things public. These
0:20:25 > 0:20:30were taken out of context.You are saying they are false, they were
0:20:30 > 0:20:36doctored?The source of one of those text messages, or a couple of them,
0:20:36 > 0:20:40and they were not texts by the way, they were private Facebook messages.
0:20:40 > 0:20:46And they were doctored by him. In the days to come there will be more
0:20:46 > 0:20:54evidence presented as to how they were obtained. That source has been
0:20:54 > 0:20:57misled by people within the party. So there are issues within the
0:20:57 > 0:21:01party. The first thing is to sort this party up to present politics.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04This is part of it. This is a problem that's been going on for
0:21:04 > 0:21:09many months. Way before I was leader.They are livid with you. Not
0:21:09 > 0:21:13just this, but the fact you left your wife and children in those
0:21:13 > 0:21:16circumstances. At that meeting they will hang you buy the heels, let's
0:21:16 > 0:21:21be honest.Absolutely not. I'm getting lots of support from around
0:21:21 > 0:21:24the country. The membership know what has been going on within the
0:21:24 > 0:21:28party for a long time. They know I'm not responsible for that. They know
0:21:28 > 0:21:33the factionalised nation needs to be dealt with in order for the party to
0:21:33 > 0:21:44be effective. -- functionalisation needs to be dealt with.It's over,
0:21:44 > 0:21:49isn't it?I don't believe that. The decision will be made on the 17th.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53If the party decides to go down the route of another leadership contest
0:21:53 > 0:21:59that will take five months to complete, then the new leader has to
0:21:59 > 0:22:03get themselves...Then over?By then the party will have lost the
0:22:03 > 0:22:08opportunity to shape the future of this country post Brexit.You are
0:22:08 > 0:22:16saying it is me or just finished?It is reform or remain as we are now.
0:22:16 > 0:22:23As we are now, as Ukip, it isn't good enough. -- for Ukip, it isn't
0:22:23 > 0:22:25good enough.
0:22:25 > 0:22:26And so to the weather.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28It's our first run out with the new weather map!
0:22:28 > 0:22:31Without going into the details, basically, Scotland is back with us.
0:22:31 > 0:22:31Hello Scotland!
0:22:31 > 0:22:32Hello Scotland!
0:22:32 > 0:22:35Over to Nick Miller in the weather studio.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39Scotland is in proportion with the rest of the UK. The land is green
0:22:39 > 0:22:45again and the weather is fitting in with the season. Some sunshine, some
0:22:45 > 0:22:49snow showers around today. They are most frequent into western Scotland,
0:22:49 > 0:22:53Northern Ireland, running into north-west England, the Pennines,
0:22:53 > 0:22:56but some will drift further south and east across the UK over the
0:22:56 > 0:22:59course of the day. Many southern and eastern part of the UK will see
0:22:59 > 0:23:03fewer showers compared with elsewhere and some will stay dry. A
0:23:03 > 0:23:08more detailed look at 3pm. These are the specs of white where we are
0:23:08 > 0:23:13expecting snow showers. Accumulating in the hills, especially for western
0:23:13 > 0:23:17Scotland and Northern Ireland, several centimetres. You can see the
0:23:17 > 0:23:21green gaps where things are clearing up and we are seeing sunshine
0:23:21 > 0:23:26occasionally, too. We are all colder compared with yesterday. Ten bridges
0:23:26 > 0:23:31between three to seven Celsius. Still in brisk north westerly winds.
0:23:31 > 0:23:36-- temperatures between three to seven Celsius. Quieter tomorrow.
0:23:36 > 0:23:41Gayle 's late in the West ahead of this system moving in. Monday night
0:23:41 > 0:23:48into Tuesday morning with rain, sleet, and significant snow. --
0:23:48 > 0:23:52Gales late in the West ahead of the system moving in.
0:23:52 > 0:23:53When will wind to end?
0:23:58 > 0:23:59-- when will win to end?
0:24:01 > 0:24:02Now, last week Anna Soubry, the former
0:24:02 > 0:24:05Tory Minister, said that if the Brexiteers took control
0:24:05 > 0:24:08of her party she might have to leave it and form some kind
0:24:08 > 0:24:09of "new alliance".
0:24:09 > 0:24:10Pretty extraordinary.
0:24:10 > 0:24:11Is this practical politics?
0:24:11 > 0:24:13Is this a real threat to Theresa May?
0:24:13 > 0:24:16To try to find out I'm joined by Anna Soubry and the kind
0:24:16 > 0:24:18of person she'd like to form an alliance with -
0:24:18 > 0:24:19the Labour MP Chuka Umunna.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21You are friendly on the sofa. An awful lot of
0:24:21 > 0:24:24awful lot of people, seven plus million who voted for Brexit, will
0:24:24 > 0:24:28say there you go they've not accept the referendum result, even now
0:24:28 > 0:24:28say there you go they've not accept the referendum result, even now they
0:24:28 > 0:24:34are trying to frustrate it. This is an unholy parliamentarian plot.I
0:24:34 > 0:24:38say I'm interested in making sure we get the best deal we possibly can.
0:24:38 > 0:24:45That we get a Brexit that absolutely put our economy at the front...You
0:24:45 > 0:24:50think Brexit will happen?The most important thing is that we continue
0:24:50 > 0:24:57to put our country's interests first and foremost. We both voted for
0:24:57 > 0:25:02Article 50 to be triggered. People often forget that. The other thing I
0:25:02 > 0:25:05would say...I was asking you, do you think Brexit will definitely
0:25:05 > 0:25:11happen?I genuinely don't know what is going to happen.It might be
0:25:11 > 0:25:15stopped?I'll tell you who might stop it, that's the people of this
0:25:15 > 0:25:20country. We won't. It's the people. We gave the people they referendum.
0:25:20 > 0:25:27They voted for it.Exactly.There is no majority in the House of Commons
0:25:27 > 0:25:32for us simply to jump off a cliff. Nobody voted to be poorer. You are
0:25:32 > 0:25:38correct to refer to that referendum. Nobody voted for us to jump off a
0:25:38 > 0:25:41cliff. Increasingly what you are seeing is people seeking to put
0:25:41 > 0:25:44ideology for the national interest -- before the national interest. A
0:25:44 > 0:25:48good example of that is the Good Friday Agreement. If we come out of
0:25:48 > 0:25:52the customs union... We want all sides to be clear that he would
0:25:52 > 0:25:55potentially threaten the Good Friday settlement. Will we really put that
0:25:55 > 0:26:02at risk for ideology? However things pan out, it has to be the national
0:26:02 > 0:26:05interest, that's what you have people working cross party to make
0:26:05 > 0:26:08sure that's the case.Let's walk you through the democracy side of this.
0:26:08 > 0:26:13Terry hole in
0:26:13 > 0:26:17-- you would be tearing a hole in democracy if Brexit was stopped. And
0:26:17 > 0:26:21if it was stopped there would have to be a second referendum. Jeremy
0:26:21 > 0:26:25Corbyn will not call one. We know Theresa May won't call one for
0:26:25 > 0:26:30obvious reasons, as well. Therefore, unless there was a majority in the
0:26:30 > 0:26:32House of Commons for something the party leaderships are against, it
0:26:32 > 0:26:39won't happen. That isn't practical politics, is it?Hang on... This
0:26:39 > 0:26:43whole thing, it'll be the people who decided in the end. You are right.
0:26:43 > 0:26:47You cannot fight for the will of the people if they get the final say.
0:26:47 > 0:26:51But Parliament is not a bystander. Parliament gets to determine what
0:26:51 > 0:26:55happens. My personal view was that I would like to see the people get the
0:26:55 > 0:27:01final say with the options to opt in.And your joint determination is
0:27:01 > 0:27:04that Parliament will have a clear, decisive vote on whatever terms
0:27:04 > 0:27:09Theresa May reveals to the country in due course?And all options must
0:27:09 > 0:27:13be available to Parliament, as well. The real thing is this, if this
0:27:13 > 0:27:17government does not get this right it will end up in a position whereby
0:27:17 > 0:27:21the majority of members of Parliament putting their
0:27:21 > 0:27:23constituents at first will find themselves unable to vote for a
0:27:23 > 0:27:29withdrawal agreement.Then it really is the cliff edge.No, no, their
0:27:29 > 0:27:39options.Yes, that's the point.-- no, no, there are options.If
0:27:39 > 0:27:44Theresa May vote it down...We secured a meaningful vote before
0:27:44 > 0:27:50Christmas. Dominic grieve tabled the amendment. There was a majority in
0:27:50 > 0:27:54parliament for it. What it ensures is that Parliament doesn't just give
0:27:54 > 0:28:01government a blank cheque, but we get to have a voice and voice all of
0:28:01 > 0:28:05the different scenarios.We saw lots of desperate people. One of the big
0:28:05 > 0:28:10messages was that if we don't take a withdrawal agreement there are other
0:28:10 > 0:28:13options. That isn't just staining in the European Union, that's also the
0:28:13 > 0:28:21Norwegian model. -- staying in. The big mistake is the debate in
0:28:21 > 0:28:26government is about Canada, and Canada plus plus plus.Norway has
0:28:26 > 0:28:31gone?Yes, which is a big mistake. The big choices between Norway and
0:28:31 > 0:28:34Canada and we've made a mistake with these red lines.You cannot have
0:28:34 > 0:28:40your cake and eat it, no matter how many times you say it.Exactly.
0:28:40 > 0:28:43Theresa May says she will come out with her preferred option for how we
0:28:43 > 0:28:49leave the EU. What could she say that would calm both of you down?
0:28:49 > 0:28:57From my point of view I want to see absolutely back in...We are still
0:28:57 > 0:29:05inside a free-trade area?Exactly. We are still members of the EEA. The
0:29:05 > 0:29:10Norwegians have control of their agricultural and fishing policies. I
0:29:10 > 0:29:16still want us to be in the customs union.That will never happen.Why?
0:29:16 > 0:29:21It would be bad for the economy and it undermines the peace process.It
0:29:21 > 0:29:26is difficult to see how she could reduce a deal you both will back.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29I'll ask you the same sort of question about Jeremy Corbyn. You
0:29:29 > 0:29:33have heard him rule out a second referendum and a customs union. Yet
0:29:33 > 0:29:39we hear rumours, stories and the papers, that behind the scenes here
0:29:39 > 0:29:45slightly more open-minded. Are you making any progress with the lead --
0:29:45 > 0:29:48with the Labour leadership?He moved us into a position where we would
0:29:48 > 0:29:53stay in the customs union before transition. But I cannot conceive of
0:29:53 > 0:29:57circumstances where Labour MPs are marshalled to go through the lobby,
0:29:57 > 0:30:02and to vote as voting against Dane in the customs union with the likes
0:30:02 > 0:30:08of Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson, and Michael Gove. -- against staying
0:30:08 > 0:30:11in the customs union. I cannot see them doing that, which would damage
0:30:11 > 0:30:17the interests of our constituents. One important last question. Do you
0:30:17 > 0:30:22really believe we have the majority in the House of Commons on the Tory
0:30:22 > 0:30:27side and Labour side coming together to complete the kind of Brexit the
0:30:27 > 0:30:33country once?If she's not careful, yes. There is a real shift among
0:30:33 > 0:30:42what I call reluctant Remainers, Leaver lites is what I call them.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45This is important, I wish that Chuka would come into the lobby with me
0:30:45 > 0:30:50but he does not, last week there was a very good police settlement, you
0:30:50 > 0:30:56voted against it.Anna does not vote with me on the NHS but...Not just
0:30:56 > 0:31:00physically now, you are closer to each other politically... You are
0:31:00 > 0:31:05closer to each other politically than you are on... On Brexit, yes.
0:31:05 > 0:31:13You are closer to John McDonnell and you are closer to Jacob Rees-Mogg --
0:31:13 > 0:31:16you are closer to her than John McDonnell, and you are closer to him
0:31:16 > 0:31:21than Jacob Rees-Mogg.This is bigger than party politics, we will not be
0:31:21 > 0:31:26forgiven by future generations if we play party politics.Is this a new
0:31:26 > 0:31:31alliance?Chuka says this is the issue upon which we are united, that
0:31:31 > 0:31:35is the most important thing, putting country and constituents first and
0:31:35 > 0:31:40that is what everyone else has to do, not just MPs but also British
0:31:40 > 0:31:44businesses have got to speak up for the economic Brexit everyone is
0:31:44 > 0:31:49crying out for.Time is up, you heard it here first(!)
0:31:49 > 0:31:51Now, listening to all of that, a loyal member
0:31:51 > 0:31:56of Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet, Labour's Communities
0:31:56 > 0:31:59spokesmanAndrew Gwynne.
0:31:59 > 0:32:03in the past you have said that Brexit could tear apart the Labour
0:32:03 > 0:32:09Party. Is it coming about?No, we have a clear here and position, we
0:32:09 > 0:32:12have said that there needs to be a transitional period, and that
0:32:12 > 0:32:15transitional period access that we will be part of the single market.
0:32:15 > 0:32:21-- know we have a coherent position. Only for a couple of years, does not
0:32:21 > 0:32:25solve it.It is acting as a bridge to the new relationship with the
0:32:25 > 0:32:28European Union, we are leaving the European Union, we have a referendum
0:32:28 > 0:32:33on this, and how we get to the final destination and what the final
0:32:33 > 0:32:38destination looks like should not be rushed to a March 2019 deadline,
0:32:38 > 0:32:42everyone is agreed that the government will struggle to get a
0:32:42 > 0:32:48bespoke deal by March 2019, that is why we need a proper transitional
0:32:48 > 0:32:53period, time-limited, so that we can get the deal we want to see.
0:32:53 > 0:32:57Michel Barnier has been very clear that to get the transition we must
0:32:57 > 0:33:01listen to all of their terms.Given the transition period, where we are
0:33:01 > 0:33:04now, are you concerned it will not happen?Where the government is
0:33:04 > 0:33:12should send worrying signals to the country at large. They have brought
0:33:12 > 0:33:15out a number of measures that we would like to see in the
0:33:15 > 0:33:18transitional period, we have said we will access the roles and
0:33:18 > 0:33:22regulations of the single market, we will be part of the single market
0:33:22 > 0:33:25and Customs union for the transitional period, that is
0:33:25 > 0:33:30important, so we can get to a position that we need to be when we
0:33:30 > 0:33:33are outside the European Union. Let's talk about the position you
0:33:33 > 0:33:37need to get to, Owen Smith, Shadow Cabinet colleague, has been clear,
0:33:37 > 0:33:42hard border, talking about Northern Ireland, must be avoided, and it is
0:33:42 > 0:33:46only membership of the single market and Customs union that can guarantee
0:33:46 > 0:33:50the open border so important to the Good Friday Agreement, that is a
0:33:50 > 0:33:56breach of party discipline and party policy.What he is saying is that
0:33:56 > 0:34:00one way of avoiding the hard border is to ensure the current
0:34:00 > 0:34:06arrangements continue between the UK and the European Union, of course,
0:34:06 > 0:34:10that would make Britain...He says it is the only way, you have to stay
0:34:10 > 0:34:15in those things or else, that is way way way...That would make Britain a
0:34:15 > 0:34:22rule taker and not a rule maker, and I think what we have got to do is
0:34:22 > 0:34:27make sure there is a Brexit deal that secures the benefits of the
0:34:27 > 0:34:36single market, that mirrors the rules and conditions... What we do
0:34:36 > 0:34:42not want to do, we do not want to end up with workers conditions,
0:34:42 > 0:34:44environmental protection is being less in the United Kingdom than
0:34:44 > 0:34:49elsewhere in Europe but we need to make the roles ourselves.This is a
0:34:49 > 0:34:52crucial question facing the country, the Labour Party believes in giving
0:34:52 > 0:34:58your own members a proper say, eight policy commissions now, designed to
0:34:58 > 0:35:02allow ordinary Labour Party members and even voters to have their say in
0:35:02 > 0:35:05shaping the policy, how many of the eight commissions deal with Brexit?
0:35:05 > 0:35:12All eight of them.None.I am of the community 's commission, you will
0:35:12 > 0:35:15find that on each of those commissions, we have a dedicated
0:35:15 > 0:35:21member that is looking at the impact of Brexit in each policy area.A lot
0:35:21 > 0:35:26of your own MPs think you have sliced it up so find there is no
0:35:26 > 0:35:32forum for debate.You cannot go from saying there is none, to now saying
0:35:32 > 0:35:35it is sliced up finally, there are eight policy commissions, dealing
0:35:35 > 0:35:40with a whole range of policies, all of whom...In which case, why have
0:35:40 > 0:35:4530 of your colleagues written to the NEC, asking for a proper debate on
0:35:45 > 0:35:50Brexit because you think it has been pushed to one side, a really
0:35:50 > 0:35:53important issue, treated like a marginal one, in the words of Heidi
0:35:53 > 0:35:57Alexander.I do not think it is being treated marginal, Brexit is
0:35:57 > 0:36:01always the number one subject wherever we go.That may be
0:36:01 > 0:36:05absolutely clear, when it comes to not being a member of the customs
0:36:05 > 0:36:09union and not being a member of the single market, that is absolutely
0:36:09 > 0:36:13clearly Labour Party policy and will not change?The Labour Party policy,
0:36:13 > 0:36:17Keir Starmer has made it very clear, we do not take anything off the
0:36:17 > 0:36:21table, that is the mistake...That is the mistake... You yourself have
0:36:21 > 0:36:25said you can change policy of public opinion changes.That is the mistake
0:36:25 > 0:36:29the current government have made, rolled out everything, we have said
0:36:29 > 0:36:34that we want to have the benefits of the single market, we also, Andrew,
0:36:34 > 0:36:38want to have that tariff free custom free trade with Europe, and that
0:36:38 > 0:36:44means having some form of a customs union with the European Union.Cake
0:36:44 > 0:36:48and cake eaten. Some would say. Your own department, whole series of
0:36:48 > 0:36:53really bad crises, in Conservative councils around the country, sorry,
0:36:53 > 0:36:58Northamptonshire, many more. Big budget deficits, will a Labour
0:36:58 > 0:37:02government give them the extra money they need?We have said we will
0:37:02 > 0:37:07fully resourced local government, in the manifesto for the last general
0:37:07 > 0:37:10election, we identified £2 billion for last year that we would have
0:37:10 > 0:37:15invested directly in local government services but also putting
0:37:15 > 0:37:18money into adult social care, children services and early years as
0:37:18 > 0:37:23well.INAUDIBLE It is those things that are tipping
0:37:23 > 0:37:26councils over the financial cliff edge.Very clearly, would you
0:37:26 > 0:37:31reverse the cuts are Conservatives have made to local authorities?I
0:37:31 > 0:37:35have said we will invest in adult social care. Well, investing in
0:37:35 > 0:37:41those services means we are putting money in, we are helping councils
0:37:41 > 0:37:45avoid that financial cliff edge.A radical government should be able to
0:37:45 > 0:37:48say, we will reverse the cuts, presumably you cannot say that
0:37:48 > 0:37:52because it is too expensive.We will put money back in, the local
0:37:52 > 0:37:56government Association says councils need to billion pounds on children
0:37:56 > 0:38:01services alone.Let's turn to how we raise that money.At the budget,
0:38:01 > 0:38:06this comes onto the point, the Conservative government cut £5
0:38:06 > 0:38:10billion on the bank levy, we oppose that, we said to billion pounds of
0:38:10 > 0:38:14that should be given to children services this year, precisely the
0:38:14 > 0:38:18money the local government Association said it needs.If
0:38:18 > 0:38:21taxpayers want better local services, one way or another they
0:38:21 > 0:38:25will have to pay for that, it has been a long time since we have had a
0:38:25 > 0:38:30council tax evaluation, 1991 was the last one, you have said this is an
0:38:30 > 0:38:34absurd situation, can you tell us today that the Labour government in
0:38:34 > 0:38:38power will re-evaluate and have another re-evaluation of council tax
0:38:38 > 0:38:43bands.Need to be more radical, we need to look afresh at how we fund
0:38:43 > 0:38:48local government going forward, that is a big piece of work that we are
0:38:48 > 0:38:54going to undertake. The problem about this, council tax is broken,
0:38:54 > 0:38:59not fit for purpose, 1% increase in council tax on my own local
0:38:59 > 0:39:05authority Thamesside in Greater Manchester brings in just £700,000.
0:39:05 > 0:39:10And yet social care gap this year, £16 million. That does not fix the
0:39:10 > 0:39:14problem.Push council tax away into history, and replace it with
0:39:14 > 0:39:18something else. There has been a suggestion that land value tax is
0:39:18 > 0:39:22something your party is looking at. We are looking at what we need to do
0:39:22 > 0:39:25to fix how we finance local government going forward, we have
0:39:25 > 0:39:30not made up minds on what that will be, it might be that the council
0:39:30 > 0:39:36tax...An extra income tax? Perhaps? Maybe council tax can be reformed,
0:39:36 > 0:39:41there are lots of examples of how revenues are raised across the
0:39:41 > 0:39:45country, we need an open-minded and general discussion about this.
0:39:45 > 0:39:49General question, have you completely open mind about whether a
0:39:49 > 0:39:53new tax to pay for local authority would remain essentially a property
0:39:53 > 0:40:00base tax? Or whatever it might be on the one hand, and, some extra form
0:40:00 > 0:40:04of income tax, as they use in the United States?Let's look at what
0:40:04 > 0:40:09works and what works in this country, I will take international
0:40:09 > 0:40:12examples but you put some of those policy ideas through the machine,
0:40:12 > 0:40:16and what comes out at the other end might not work in this country but
0:40:16 > 0:40:20what is crucial is we properly fund local services because local
0:40:20 > 0:40:24government is on the brink of collapse.Lots of aspirations, we
0:40:24 > 0:40:29have not got clear answers, we wait, agog(!)
0:40:31 > 0:40:32Now, coming up later this morning,
0:40:32 > 0:40:34as the Prime Minister tries to thrash out Britain's relationship
0:40:34 > 0:40:36with the EU after Brexit, Labour's Seema Malhotra
0:40:36 > 0:40:39and Conservative MEP Dan Hannan go head to head.
0:40:39 > 0:40:41And Andy McDonald, the shadow transport secretary on Labour's
0:40:41 > 0:40:43plans for renationalisation.
0:40:43 > 0:40:50That's the Sunday Politics, with Sarah Smith, here on BBC One.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52Well, earlier on we were talking on about that
0:40:52 > 0:40:55terrible Oxfam scandal, and the extent to which we should be
0:40:55 > 0:40:57asking questions not just of Oxfam but of the government,
0:40:57 > 0:40:59and the Department for International Development in particular.
0:40:59 > 0:41:03The Secretary of State, Penny Mordaunt,
0:41:03 > 0:41:08who has been in the job since November, is with me.
0:41:08 > 0:41:13when you came across this story, when was it?When I first came
0:41:13 > 0:41:17across it, it was when the Times came across the story.That was the
0:41:17 > 0:41:21first you knew of it?My reaction, it is a complete betrayal both of
0:41:21 > 0:41:24the people that Oxfam were there to help and the people who sent them
0:41:24 > 0:41:28there to do the job, it is a scandal.Let's walk through aspects
0:41:28 > 0:41:33of the scandal bit by bit. First of all, Oxfam allowed the people
0:41:33 > 0:41:38responsible for this appalling behaviour to leave relatively
0:41:38 > 0:41:41quietly, no hullabaloo, those people who were responsible in Haiti, and
0:41:41 > 0:41:46they were not fired, allowed to resign.Shocking, does not matter
0:41:46 > 0:41:50how good the safeguarding practices are in an organisation, if that
0:41:50 > 0:41:56organisation does not have the moral leadership to do the right thing,
0:41:56 > 0:41:59and where, in particular, they have evidence of criminal activity, to
0:41:59 > 0:42:03pass that information to the relevant authorities, including
0:42:03 > 0:42:07prosecuting authorities, that is an absolute absence of leadership.You
0:42:07 > 0:42:17feel that Oxfam failed in its moral leadership.Yes, I do.Second phase,
0:42:17 > 0:42:22having let these people go, they joined other aid organisations and
0:42:22 > 0:42:26charities and those organisations were not told about any of this,
0:42:26 > 0:42:30again, what is your reaction?That is a scandal, that is why we must
0:42:30 > 0:42:35ensure people are reporting these offences, when they take place. We
0:42:35 > 0:42:39have got to give the sector the best chance it has, at ensuring that
0:42:39 > 0:42:44people who are, we suspect, targeting this sector in order to
0:42:44 > 0:42:50carry out predatory activities, that we give them the best chance we can
0:42:50 > 0:42:54not to allow that to happen.When will you meet Oxfam and have the
0:42:54 > 0:42:58conversation face-to-face?I'm eating them tomorrow and affording
0:42:58 > 0:43:01them the opportunity to tell me in person what they did after these
0:43:01 > 0:43:05events. And I am going to be looking to see if they are displaying the
0:43:05 > 0:43:11moral leadership that I think they need to now. We are talking about an
0:43:11 > 0:43:14historic case, it is in some respects still live, they have
0:43:14 > 0:43:19information they should be giving to the authorities.In terms of your
0:43:19 > 0:43:23department, back when all of this happened, 2011, what were you told
0:43:23 > 0:43:27as a department by Oxfam?We were not told about the nature of these
0:43:27 > 0:43:31events, they initially said that they were investigating misconduct,
0:43:31 > 0:43:38and when they concluded that report, they did not tell us the nature of
0:43:38 > 0:43:47these events. They did tell the charity commission that there was
0:43:47 > 0:43:49sexual inappropriate behaviour, bullying and harassment of
0:43:49 > 0:43:53employees, but they did not put that to us.Given that new knew there was
0:43:53 > 0:43:58a problem, at the very least, was it not a little in curious of your
0:43:58 > 0:44:03department not to ask more?Oxfam also gave reassurances of two things
0:44:03 > 0:44:10critical to us.-- incurious.It is about was there any harm done? Was
0:44:10 > 0:44:16there any involvement of the beneficiaries of aid involved, any
0:44:16 > 0:44:21impact on them? They told us categorically, no.That was a lie.
0:44:21 > 0:44:26Yes, and no misappropriation of funds they said as well. That is the
0:44:26 > 0:44:30other thing we would have been concerned with.This is beginning to
0:44:30 > 0:44:35look like a cover up, certainly clear that they lied to you, they
0:44:35 > 0:44:40get quite a lot of public money from you, is there any part of you that
0:44:40 > 0:44:43is beginning to think, we should not be paying tax payers money to this
0:44:43 > 0:44:48organisation?Yes, I think that, I am going to afford them the
0:44:48 > 0:44:51opportunity to talk to me tomorrow but I am clear, does not matter
0:44:51 > 0:44:55whether you have a whistle-blowing hotline, does not matter if you have
0:44:55 > 0:44:59good safeguarding practices in place, if the moral leadership at
0:44:59 > 0:45:03the top of the organisation is not there, then we cannot have you as a
0:45:03 > 0:45:08partner. I would also note, there are enormous numbers of people who
0:45:08 > 0:45:12are doing good work and good people working at Oxfam. They have been
0:45:12 > 0:45:21betrayed in this as well.Absolutely stop cover up? -- absolutely.
0:45:21 > 0:45:27Cover-up? I do not know what their motivation was, I'm affording them
0:45:27 > 0:45:31the opportunity tomorrow to talk to me directly, they did absolutely the
0:45:31 > 0:45:36wrong thing, they let individuals who had undertaken criminal
0:45:36 > 0:45:41activity, they let them go, they did not tell prosecuting authorities,
0:45:41 > 0:45:45they did not tell their regulator and they did not do what they
0:45:45 > 0:45:49should.They will probably tell you tomorrow they are doing good and
0:45:49 > 0:45:51important work around the world and were worried that if people knew
0:45:51 > 0:45:55about this, they would stop donating.There is some actions I am
0:45:55 > 0:46:02looking for them taking now.
0:46:02 > 0:46:07If they don't hand over all of their information from their investigation
0:46:07 > 0:46:12into all of the relevant authorities, then I cannot work with
0:46:12 > 0:46:16them any more.That is the end of public money if they don't do what
0:46:16 > 0:46:22you tell them. You say UK aid should be withdrawn from this scandalous
0:46:22 > 0:46:26organisation. You will give them one more chance, otherwise you agree
0:46:26 > 0:46:30with them?I need to look at the facts. I want to afford them the
0:46:30 > 0:46:33opportunity to tell me their side of the story so I have all of the
0:46:33 > 0:46:39facts. I'm clear. The sector has to set up -- step up in terms of
0:46:39 > 0:46:44tackling what is an industry that has been targeted by individuals.By
0:46:44 > 0:46:50paedophiles, in fact.Yes, targeting this because of the chaos that we
0:46:50 > 0:46:55work in. And we have to do everything to ensure that those
0:46:55 > 0:46:58people are spotted and other organisations that might be
0:46:58 > 0:47:02potentially hiring them in the future don't.You talk about the
0:47:02 > 0:47:06sector as a whole. We've been focusing on Oxfam for many reasons.
0:47:06 > 0:47:14They've been a noble organisation for this work. But it isn't just
0:47:14 > 0:47:19them, it's Christian Nade, it's Save The Children, founded after the
0:47:19 > 0:47:28First World War. -- its Christian Aid. Do you worry that the aid
0:47:28 > 0:47:33project is under threat because of what has happened?This is an issue.
0:47:33 > 0:47:40We need to do more. This has been led through the UN, through getting
0:47:40 > 0:47:46reforms, through getting the oversight needed. I'm writing out to
0:47:46 > 0:47:49all of the organisations we work with to ensure that the practices
0:47:49 > 0:47:58and the moral leadership is there. Are you going to call in the
0:47:58 > 0:48:02children, Christian Aid, and other organisations that have been named?
0:48:02 > 0:48:09-- are you going to call in Save the Children.I also think we need to
0:48:09 > 0:48:12get the international community to step up. I'll be making a speech
0:48:12 > 0:48:15later this week at an international conference looking at child
0:48:15 > 0:48:21protection and raising these issues. You came into politics, used to work
0:48:21 > 0:48:26in orphanages, lots of people give money to these organisations, are
0:48:26 > 0:48:31they going to be thinking maybe I won't after all of this? What you
0:48:31 > 0:48:35say to them? Aid does an awful lot of good around the world. It's also
0:48:35 > 0:48:40good for the UK.It makes us more prosperous and more secure. We
0:48:40 > 0:48:43contribute towards global health security and many other aspects. Aid
0:48:43 > 0:48:49is good. But if we believe that then we must reassure donors, whether
0:48:49 > 0:48:52they are people donating voluntarily, or whether it is
0:48:52 > 0:48:54governments and the international community, we must demonstrate that
0:48:54 > 0:48:59money isn't just being spent well, but could not be spent better.Can
0:48:59 > 0:49:04ask more about this unhappy episode. Can we be clear that in the future
0:49:04 > 0:49:13the use of prostitutes by any staff of
0:49:13 > 0:49:18of NGOs will mean that their company stops getting aid?Many of the
0:49:18 > 0:49:22organisations we work with work with local staff in very complex
0:49:22 > 0:49:27situations. For me it is about what the organisation does to prevent
0:49:27 > 0:49:35that from happening...So it has better internal...And that it has a
0:49:35 > 0:49:38report given to it. What is important about Oxfam is that when
0:49:38 > 0:49:42it was reported to them they failed to do the right thing. That is what
0:49:42 > 0:49:46we must focus on. That is what will ultimately stop predatory
0:49:46 > 0:49:51individuals being able to take advantage of vulnerable people.You
0:49:51 > 0:49:55had Jacob Rees Mogg going up to number ten with a big petition from
0:49:55 > 0:50:06Express readers against the aid going to them. Doesn't your job
0:50:06 > 0:50:10harder -- does it make your job harder?We need to make the case for
0:50:10 > 0:50:13aid better. We need a higher spending bar. It cannot just be
0:50:13 > 0:50:16spent well. We must demonstrate to people that it could not be spent
0:50:16 > 0:50:21better in the national interest, whether that be the NHS or social
0:50:21 > 0:50:27care. That's what we must focus on. Ultimately aid alleviates pressure
0:50:27 > 0:50:30on the NHS. Alleviates pressure on our Armed Forces. It's a sensible
0:50:30 > 0:50:38thing to do.Of course.But we cannot do it badly. The 0.7 is only
0:50:38 > 0:50:43a help if we spend it well and that is what we want to demonstrate.Are
0:50:43 > 0:50:47you sure that British citizens were not involved in any of these cases,
0:50:47 > 0:50:50and that no British citizens were having sects with underage people?
0:50:50 > 0:50:55Because that would be a criminal offence in this country. -- having
0:50:55 > 0:51:00sex with underage people.It would be. We are part of an international
0:51:00 > 0:51:04agreement. That means no matter where you are committing an offence,
0:51:04 > 0:51:10you British citizen, it is an offence here. This is not about the
0:51:10 > 0:51:12law being strengthened. This is about organisations reporting to
0:51:12 > 0:51:18prosecution organisations...I was wondering what information you have
0:51:18 > 0:51:23on this.This is an emerging picture. More allegations are coming
0:51:23 > 0:51:27out from Oxfam and other organisations. I've written out to
0:51:27 > 0:51:29every organisation we work with asking them to place on a record all
0:51:29 > 0:51:36of the events, historic or current, they are aware of and any other
0:51:36 > 0:51:39safeguarding issues they are aware of. And all of them will be followed
0:51:39 > 0:51:45up.Let's move on. Six major speeches by the Prime Minister and
0:51:45 > 0:51:48an array of other Cabinet ministers on Brexit coming over the next
0:51:48 > 0:51:54couple of weeks. What will we learn from these?What the public want is
0:51:54 > 0:51:57the vision. They want meat on the bones. That is what they are going
0:51:57 > 0:52:03to get. That will involve, at the end of the process, the Prime
0:52:03 > 0:52:07Minister setting out what that new partnership will look like. But it
0:52:07 > 0:52:12will also give detail on our trading ambitions relationship, on what it
0:52:12 > 0:52:16means for devolution, and many other aspects.If you are a major company
0:52:16 > 0:52:20watching very worriedly at this process, we had the Japanese
0:52:20 > 0:52:23ambassador talking about Japanese companies pulling out if they don't
0:52:23 > 0:52:28get the kind of tariff free aspects they want, they will get answers
0:52:28 > 0:52:32within the next couple of weeks. They will get some.We want
0:52:32 > 0:52:38negotiations.That's the key difference. This is a negotiation.
0:52:38 > 0:52:43At least they will know our position.Exactly. That is what
0:52:43 > 0:52:48business is looking for. We have got to give business and other
0:52:48 > 0:52:52organisations, as well, a flavour of what they need to plan for. And
0:52:52 > 0:52:56certainty about what we are looking for.And perhaps what they are most
0:52:56 > 0:53:01concerned about is the transition period. Is it a given it will
0:53:01 > 0:53:05happen?My personal view is I do because it's in our interest and it
0:53:05 > 0:53:10is in the EU's interest. Common sense will prevail.Michel Barnier
0:53:10 > 0:53:17said it isn't a given and his -- and he has laid down some clear
0:53:17 > 0:53:21instructions. He says if you don't I have a series of punishment I can
0:53:21 > 0:53:25impose on you and you can say nothing about them. Do you think he
0:53:25 > 0:53:30is being discourteous to this country, at the very least?I would
0:53:30 > 0:53:33agree with what David Davis has said on that matter. But what I would say
0:53:33 > 0:53:38to the public is that actually the other nations involved in this are
0:53:38 > 0:53:41very pragmatic and have not been impressed with some of the language
0:53:41 > 0:53:47the commission has used. Ultimately this is about what is good for us
0:53:47 > 0:53:52and good for the remainder of the EU.In terms of the rights of EU
0:53:52 > 0:53:56citizens coming here during the transition period, the Prime
0:53:56 > 0:54:01Minister has been clear that it changes, we've left the EU, it's a
0:54:01 > 0:54:04different situation, is that over time for this country?It is what we
0:54:04 > 0:54:11are setting out in our position. All of this is in negotiation.Up until
0:54:11 > 0:54:15now, we fold on everything, we say this is a red light, then they say
0:54:15 > 0:54:22no, then we fold, and things move on.-- red line. We will be setting
0:54:22 > 0:54:25out our detail on these issues in the coming months. That is something
0:54:25 > 0:54:33we are looking for. Ultimately it will be the negotiation, the phrase
0:54:33 > 0:54:37that is strutted out, nothing is decided until everything is decided.
0:54:37 > 0:54:40These things make sense. We are right to ask for them.I don't know
0:54:40 > 0:54:49if you had a chance to hear an Anne Soubry and Chuka Umunna early on, do
0:54:49 > 0:54:54you think this is driving a party to breaking point?I don't think so.
0:54:54 > 0:54:56The Parliamentary party and the Cabinet are behind the Prime
0:54:56 > 0:55:02Minister. We are trying to get the best deal possible for the UK. I
0:55:02 > 0:55:09have great respect for Anne Soubry and Chuka Umunna. But we had a
0:55:09 > 0:55:13referendum. We are moving. Which ever way people voted we all have an
0:55:13 > 0:55:16interest in getting the best deal possible. That is what we are doing.
0:55:16 > 0:55:20The last time we were talking, during the referendum campaign, you
0:55:20 > 0:55:25were full of confidence and optimism about this. You and people like you
0:55:25 > 0:55:29never told us how hard it was going to be.Nobody thought it was going
0:55:29 > 0:55:35to be a walk in the park. But actually I think once you get past
0:55:35 > 0:55:39the Westminster bubble, and you look at the practical things that need to
0:55:39 > 0:55:42happen, what is ultimately good for us, for our security and prosperity,
0:55:42 > 0:55:47and what is good for the remainder of the EU, the Democrat security and
0:55:47 > 0:55:53prosperity, actually they are the same...You remain cheaper.I am. --
0:55:53 > 0:55:57you remain chipper.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59Now a look at what's coming up straight
0:55:59 > 0:56:04after this programme.
0:56:04 > 0:56:11We debate race. Is today's Britain racist? There are rumours the Prime
0:56:11 > 0:56:14Minister is considering cutting tuition fees, we ask whether higher
0:56:14 > 0:56:18education is fit for purpose. See you at ten on BBC One.
0:56:18 > 0:56:20Almost out of time for today.
0:56:20 > 0:56:23Join us again next Sunday at nine, when I'll be speaking
0:56:23 > 0:56:24to Guy Verhofstadt, the Brexit Coordinator
0:56:24 > 0:56:27for the European Parliament and, delayed by a week, Jeremy Irons
0:56:27 > 0:56:28and Lesley Manville.
0:56:28 > 0:56:31Until then, we leave you with one of the most exciting young bands
0:56:31 > 0:56:32around at the moment.
0:56:32 > 0:56:33This is The Spitfires and "Stand Down".
0:56:33 > 0:56:36Goodbye.
0:56:52 > 0:56:57# Spend a lifetime ignoring the facts
0:56:57 > 0:56:59# Young people standing with a wall against their backs
0:56:59 > 0:57:01# The TV says we're on the verge of war
0:57:01 > 0:57:06# Receipts for lost lives collect at their front doors
0:57:06 > 0:57:09# Still it could be much much worse they say
0:57:09 > 0:57:12# An education debt that you won't pay
0:57:12 > 0:57:16# This is the road laid out for you
0:57:16 > 0:57:23# I mean what else are you gonna do?
0:57:28 > 0:57:32# Cause this is your future you can see
0:57:32 > 0:57:35# Even though it looks like your past to me
0:57:35 > 0:57:36# Stand down
0:57:36 > 0:57:38# Get a job and fight to keep it
0:57:38 > 0:57:40# Stand down
0:57:40 > 0:57:43# Get a degree but you'll never need it
0:57:43 > 0:57:44# Stand down
0:57:44 > 0:57:45# Stand down, stand down
0:57:45 > 0:57:48# Stand down, stand down
0:57:49 > 0:57:54# You've shed enough tears to wash away the tracks
0:57:54 > 0:57:57# Thrown off enough to keep you turning back
0:57:57 > 0:58:05# You never said it could end up this way
0:58:11 > 0:58:13# This road they laid out for you
0:58:13 > 0:58:15# I mean what else are you gonna do?
0:58:15 > 0:58:17# Cause this is your future you can see
0:58:17 > 0:58:20# Even though it looks like your past to me
0:58:20 > 0:58:21# Stand down
0:58:21 > 0:58:23# Get a job and fight to keep it
0:58:23 > 0:58:24# Stand down
0:58:24 > 0:58:26# Get a degree but you'll never need it
0:58:26 > 0:58:27# Stand down
0:58:27 > 0:58:28# Stand down, stand down
0:58:28 > 0:58:36# Stand down, stand down
0:58:40 > 0:58:43# Stand down
0:58:43 > 0:58:46# Get a job and fight to keep it
0:58:46 > 0:58:47# Stand down
0:58:47 > 0:58:49# Get a degree but you'll never need it
0:58:49 > 0:58:50# Stand down
0:58:50 > 0:58:51# Stand down, stand down
0:58:51 > 0:58:59# Stand down, stand down #.