0:00:05 > 0:00:09Good morning.
0:00:09 > 0:00:13At the end of the week when, at last, Theresa May and her key
0:00:13 > 0:00:15Cabinet Ministers sat down at Chequers to work out
0:00:15 > 0:00:19how to leave the EU.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23Pictures in most of the papers show a scene just like the end
0:00:23 > 0:00:28of an Agatha Christie, with Mrs May as Miss Marple, the EU,
0:00:28 > 0:00:31of course, our podgy Belgian Poirot, lurking somewhere outside.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34But whose body - whose political career, perhaps -
0:00:34 > 0:00:42is that, lying sprawled below the mantlepiece?
0:00:54 > 0:00:57Exercising his little grey cells, I'm joined by Dr Liam Fox,
0:00:57 > 0:01:00the International Trade Secretary, and leading Brexiteer.
0:01:00 > 0:01:05What does this new accord actually mean?
0:01:05 > 0:01:07Meanwhile, we're told Jeremy Corbyn is changing
0:01:07 > 0:01:08direction on Brexit as well.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10We've heard that many times before.
0:01:10 > 0:01:11Sir Keir Starmer, Labour's Shadow Brexit
0:01:11 > 0:01:18Secretary, joins us too.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21And I'm joined this morning by the writer
0:01:21 > 0:01:24of the global bestseller purporting to lift the lid
0:01:24 > 0:01:26on Donald Trump's White House, Michael Wolff, author
0:01:26 > 0:01:28of Fire and Fury.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30And you'll probably be familiar with this.
0:01:30 > 0:01:31It's a Matt cartoon.
0:01:31 > 0:01:36But who is Matt?
0:01:36 > 0:01:38He rarely gives television interviews, but I've been talking
0:01:38 > 0:01:40to him after 30 years of entertaining Telegraph readers.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43And we have live music.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46The best of Bach from one of the classical world's newest stars -
0:01:46 > 0:01:54Sheku Kanneh-Mason.
0:02:01 > 0:02:06Harmony and disharmony of all kinds.
0:02:06 > 0:02:07Reviewing the news, the TV presenter
0:02:07 > 0:02:10and campaigner, June Sarpong, and Theresa May's former director
0:02:10 > 0:02:11of communications, Katie Perrior.
0:02:11 > 0:02:12First, though, the news with Christian Fraser.
0:02:12 > 0:02:13Good morning.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16Syrian activists say government forces carried out more air strikes
0:02:16 > 0:02:18on the rebel-held area of Eastern Ghouta last
0:02:18 > 0:02:20night, in spite of a UN Security Council resolution calling
0:02:20 > 0:02:21for an immediate ceasefire.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24The vote in favour of a 30-day truce was passed unanimously.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27It's hoped that an end to fighting would allow
0:02:27 > 0:02:32humanitarian aid to be brought in and injured civilians rescued.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35The International Olympic Committee has voted to keep its ban on Russia
0:02:35 > 0:02:38but says it will be lifted if there are no further positive
0:02:38 > 0:02:41tests from the Winter Games in South Korea.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44The decision means that the Russian athletes at Pyeongchang will not be
0:02:44 > 0:02:52allowed to carry their national flag at today's closing ceremony.
0:02:52 > 0:02:57Russia was stripped of its Olympic status before the Games because of
0:02:57 > 0:03:00accusations of state-sponsored doping.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03More than 80 senior Labour figures have issued a statement
0:03:03 > 0:03:05in the Observer newspaper warning Jeremy Corbyn that he wouldn't be
0:03:05 > 0:03:08able to deliver his spending promises unless the UK stays
0:03:08 > 0:03:09in the EU single market.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12The Labour leader is due to make a major speech on Brexit tomorrow.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15He's expected to commit Labour to backing membership of some
0:03:15 > 0:03:16kind of customs union, but not to remaining
0:03:16 > 0:03:19in the single market.
0:03:19 > 0:03:24One of Bollywood's greatest leading ladies has died at the age of 54.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28Sridevi Kapoor - known just as Sridevi -
0:03:28 > 0:03:31starred in more than 200 films in a career spanning four decades.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33She's thought to have had a heart attack while attending
0:03:33 > 0:03:36a family wedding in Dubai.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39And tributes are also being paid to the British actress Emma Chambers
0:03:39 > 0:03:43who has died at the age of 53.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45She was best known for her roles in The Vicar
0:03:45 > 0:03:47of Dibley and Notting Hill.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49Her agent said she died of natural causes.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51That's all from me.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53The next news on BBC One is at 1pm.
0:03:53 > 0:03:54Back to you, Andrew.
0:03:54 > 0:03:59Thank you.
0:03:59 > 0:04:05As ever to the front pages. The Sunday Telegraph has a Brexit story
0:04:05 > 0:04:10about the SNP potentially derailing trade deals and the England rugby
0:04:10 > 0:04:14team having been derailed by Scotland yesterday. I never watch
0:04:14 > 0:04:19these games because whenever I do, Scotland loses. I did not watch it,
0:04:19 > 0:04:32Scotland won. The Sunday Times, the story about top shop, and Pat
0:04:33 > 0:04:36story about top shop, and Pat -- the Archbishop of Canterbury. The Mail
0:04:36 > 0:04:41on Sunday, help lines for heroes, soldiers, a campaign may have been
0:04:41 > 0:04:46running for a long time, a breakthrough on that. More of the
0:04:46 > 0:04:51politics inside. Where is the Observer? A whole lot of senior
0:04:51 > 0:04:55Labour figures, Neil Kinnock and more, piling pressure on Jeremy
0:04:55 > 0:05:01Corbyn, they want him to commit to joining the single market, staying
0:05:01 > 0:05:07in the single market, as well as the customs union. Let us start, Katie
0:05:07 > 0:05:12Perrior, you were at the heart of the May operation for a long time,
0:05:12 > 0:05:18big spread in the Sunday Times, although ministers gathered around,
0:05:18 > 0:05:23a very detailed briefing from Number 10 in the paper.-- all the
0:05:23 > 0:05:28ministers. A cracking long read in the Sunday Times, great detail about
0:05:28 > 0:05:34what happened, they move from room to room in a Cluedo style, they left
0:05:34 > 0:05:38their mobile phones, taken away, they discussed Brexit and many other
0:05:38 > 0:05:43things over shortbread and cups of tea. It seems to be they got on,
0:05:43 > 0:05:47brilliant briefing from Number 10, great pictures of who is who in the
0:05:47 > 0:05:52room.There is a fairly detailed account of what they have now
0:05:52 > 0:05:57agreed. Can we go through that?They have talked about demand for mutual
0:05:57 > 0:06:01recognition, standards on goods traded between the UK and the EU,
0:06:01 > 0:06:06public commitment to make sure standards are as high as the EU,
0:06:06 > 0:06:11keeping rules and regulations substantially similar. And what Greg
0:06:11 > 0:06:16Hart has done, standing up for the automotive centre, saying diverging
0:06:16 > 0:06:19stars not protect jobs. I run through of everyone's role in the
0:06:19 > 0:06:26day. -- diverging does not protect jobs.Over time, Britain will be
0:06:26 > 0:06:29able to diverging all sorts of different ways and there will be
0:06:29 > 0:06:33some kind of mechanism not involving the European court overseeing that,
0:06:33 > 0:06:38the essence of the deal?Absolutely but the EU told us we could not
0:06:38 > 0:06:43cherry pick.Will it be saleable? The EU may well say, that is your
0:06:43 > 0:06:47starting position, we do not like it. We need a meaningful vote in
0:06:47 > 0:06:54parliament at some point.We are scrabbling around to understand the
0:06:54 > 0:07:02changes, big changes on the Labour side, June.Front page of the
0:07:02 > 0:07:07Observer, the Labour alliance piles pressure on Jeremy Corbyn over his
0:07:07 > 0:07:11Brexit stance. 80 senior Labour figures have come together to put
0:07:11 > 0:07:15pressure on Jeremy Corbyn, not just to remaining in something of a
0:07:15 > 0:07:19customs union, but also to remain in the single market.Can I stop you
0:07:19 > 0:07:24there? People get confused. The customs union is the great ring
0:07:24 > 0:07:35fence around the EU. If we
0:07:36 > 0:07:39stay inside that, something like it, we have to take EU rules?The EU
0:07:39 > 0:07:40negotiates for us. Totally.Many people including Neil Kinnock
0:07:40 > 0:07:43sayyid, if we are going to do that, why not stay in the single market?
0:07:43 > 0:07:46Totally. It is about the movement of goods. We have to look at the
0:07:46 > 0:07:49freedoms, but what we have to decide is whether or not it is worth it
0:07:49 > 0:07:55when we know the terms of the deal. What that 80 senior Labour figures
0:07:55 > 0:07:59are saying, Helena Kennedy, Doreen Lawrence, Chuka Umunna, Neil
0:07:59 > 0:08:03Kinnock, if Jeremy Corbyn wants to fund his anti-austerity measures,
0:08:03 > 0:08:07the only way to do it is to remain in the single market.Highly
0:08:07 > 0:08:11political because there is an amendment to the trade bill backed
0:08:11 > 0:08:18by Anna Soubry and Tory remainers. The question is, if the Labour Party
0:08:18 > 0:08:22gets alongside that, Theresa May can potentially lose her majority on
0:08:22 > 0:08:27absolutely crucial question of the day?Absolutely. They have pushed
0:08:27 > 0:08:30those votes to the back end of the spring, the select committee are
0:08:30 > 0:08:34saying, we might have a vote earlier, this is looking like it
0:08:34 > 0:08:38will not go away.You cannot coexist down the road forever because we
0:08:38 > 0:08:43have that actual negotiations that McCready cannot kick this.The
0:08:43 > 0:08:49Sunday Times, spinning plates, the more you pick it down the road,
0:08:49 > 0:08:55hopefully we will be in a place, concessions from the EU, when some
0:08:55 > 0:08:59people around.Wait and see. Other really important story today, the
0:08:59 > 0:09:03horror going on again in Syria, we thought things had calmed down, much
0:09:03 > 0:09:08worse over the last two weeks.We have the ceasefire agreed by the UN,
0:09:08 > 0:09:13Russia does not look like it has vetoed it, so it looks like it will
0:09:13 > 0:09:17go ahead, but whenever there is a ceasefire, there is heavy bombing
0:09:17 > 0:09:21beforehand, they try to get as much done before abiding by the
0:09:21 > 0:09:29ceasefire. Shocking
0:09:29 > 0:09:31ceasefire. Shocking scenes, we have been here before. At what point do
0:09:31 > 0:09:33we feel seminars can be done, intervene? Parliamentarians feel
0:09:33 > 0:09:35helpless, we feel helpless, and we're not quite sure about giving
0:09:35 > 0:09:40money to that aid charities... Absolutely. This is the penalty of
0:09:40 > 0:09:45not intervening at the beginning. We intervened in a ruck and to many
0:09:45 > 0:09:52people's views, that went wrong -- we intervened in Iraq. We are
0:09:52 > 0:09:55impotent observers.As Johnny Mercer says, at least force yourself to
0:09:55 > 0:10:00watch the pictures, if you cannot do anything, do not turn a blind eye.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04They cannot be sure Assad will keep to it either.We have been talking a
0:10:04 > 0:10:09lot about the scandals in that aid sector, another one this morning in
0:10:09 > 0:10:20the Sunday Times.This is in the Sunday Times, another one, advisory
0:10:20 > 0:10:26group to Mines, hit by a terrible story, many of the senior employees
0:10:26 > 0:10:34used prostitutes and two stories in the DRC were members had affairs
0:10:34 > 0:10:39with local women and one apparently impregnated one of the women and
0:10:39 > 0:10:43abandon her. A charity that Prince Harry supports, so these stories are
0:10:43 > 0:10:49not going away.Spreading in all directions. Katie, another of the
0:10:49 > 0:10:58really big stories of the moment, the University and College strike,
0:10:58 > 0:11:02unprecedented, students are consumers.They are consumers,
0:11:02 > 0:11:06paying over £9,000 in fees, and many more in living costs, and they are
0:11:06 > 0:11:11demanding a higher standard of return on investment. There is no
0:11:11 > 0:11:15letup in the fact these lecturers will continue to strike, they are
0:11:15 > 0:11:19striking over pensions, they will lose £10,000 a year under the new
0:11:19 > 0:11:23rules.A lot of these people, the pensions would not have been that
0:11:23 > 0:11:29big in the first place, they are not asked or negotiated with, just told,
0:11:29 > 0:11:33you are losing this money.One of the attention is on vice
0:11:33 > 0:11:37chancellors, but it covers all lecturers and many are on much lower
0:11:37 > 0:11:41wages. The students are quite big numbers supporting lecturers on this
0:11:41 > 0:11:47but at the same time, saying, if we are not having lectures, we want a
0:11:47 > 0:11:54refund.So much to talk about. Picking up a storm at the Brit
0:11:54 > 0:11:58awards,, Stormzy.A new day in politics when the Prime Minister is
0:11:58 > 0:12:05having to respond to the grime artist. He called rout over Grenfell
0:12:05 > 0:12:11, but then he backed a petition the next day to have it debated in the
0:12:11 > 0:12:15Commons and the petition overnight received over 137,000 signatures,
0:12:15 > 0:12:20even more than that now, and it is wonderful to see someone like him
0:12:20 > 0:12:25using his platform for a purpose and speaking truth to power.Good, but
0:12:25 > 0:12:30Theresa May was not responsible for Grenfellshe is responsible for
0:12:30 > 0:12:35dealing with it. And that is why it is right the young people are
0:12:35 > 0:12:39holding her to account.Let me ask you the new world of Number 10 these
0:12:39 > 0:12:44days, back in the day, an MP put down a question, the Prime Minister
0:12:44 > 0:12:49would eventually be obliged to respond, now Stormzy says something
0:12:49 > 0:12:54on the Brit awards and the Prime Minister has to respond.It is not
0:12:54 > 0:13:00just this, it is the way forward, lots of MPs are saying it is an open
0:13:00 > 0:13:04door now.Do you think your successor would have to say, excuse
0:13:04 > 0:13:10me, let me tell you about someone called Stormzy?There are always
0:13:10 > 0:13:14those scenarios! You see something on Twitter, you have to describe to
0:13:14 > 0:13:22MPs who they are.Is she a big grime fan?I doubt it, but Matt Hancock
0:13:22 > 0:13:25apparently is.Extraordinary story about Winston Churchill in the
0:13:25 > 0:13:32Telegraph. We thought he never played away.It seems that is not
0:13:32 > 0:13:42the case. Who knew that? Apparently he had an affair with a lady who was
0:13:42 > 0:13:47the great
0:13:49 > 0:13:52the great aunt of Carla Levine and he painted pictures of her.This is
0:13:52 > 0:13:57genuinely new, something none of us knew before. A very sad story, we
0:13:57 > 0:14:03will have to end on this, an extraordinary actress who we all
0:14:03 > 0:14:09remember, very compelling and unusual face in The Vicar of Dibley
0:14:09 > 0:14:16and many other things, Four Weddings And A Funeral.Died at 53, such a
0:14:16 > 0:14:19young age, many celebrities have said she lit up the screen and she
0:14:19 > 0:14:25was very much someone who was warm and genuine and kind. I think she
0:14:25 > 0:14:29will be really missed within that community. But we can always watch
0:14:29 > 0:14:35reruns and I always think... It is a sad thing to lose someone, but the
0:14:35 > 0:14:40gift that keeps on giving, to watch them.So unexpected and shocking.
0:14:40 > 0:14:48Gorgeous goofy look, representing the goofy in all of us.The role was
0:14:48 > 0:14:53made for her, much missed.Thank you both very much indeed.
0:14:53 > 0:14:54And so to the weather.
0:14:54 > 0:14:57Beautiful sunshine in the south, but a huge wave of icy
0:14:57 > 0:14:58air from the Continent.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00I thought we'd voted to stop that happening.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03Over to Philip Avery in the weather studio.
0:15:07 > 0:15:11Good morning. I will leave the political forecast to you.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19We are linked to the continent for the coming few days because it is
0:15:19 > 0:15:29going to keep it very cool, although today mostly dry with temperatures
0:15:29 > 0:15:32between one and 8 degrees depending on where you are. Tonight, a very
0:15:32 > 0:15:38cold night in prospect and the first signs of some wintry showers falling
0:15:38 > 0:15:41into a cold start widely across the British Isles on Monday morning. It
0:15:41 > 0:15:44will feel much colder than the weekend wherever you are stepping
0:15:44 > 0:15:49out of the door first up. Those wintry showers to be had there, like
0:15:49 > 0:15:53at this stage I would have thought across eastern areas, and notice how
0:15:53 > 0:15:58already those temperatures have dipped away. And then, Monday
0:15:58 > 0:16:03evening into Tuesday, we think a more organised area of snow leaving
0:16:03 > 0:16:07several centimetres in its wake will gradually drag its way down and
0:16:07 > 0:16:12across the British Isles. The signs of things to come here. Feeling
0:16:12 > 0:16:17much, much colder. I will show you the feels like. This will be ramped
0:16:17 > 0:16:22up into the middle part of the week, as indeed will be those wintry
0:16:22 > 0:16:26showers. Andrew, winter is coming back with a vengeance.
0:16:26 > 0:16:26showers. Andrew, winter is coming back with a vengeance.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29It certainly is.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31When Michael Wolff's controversial book about Donald Trump
0:16:31 > 0:16:33was published in the US, it so angered the president
0:16:33 > 0:16:36that he called the author a liar and a total loser.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39Among other things, Fire and Fury suggested that Trump was devastated
0:16:39 > 0:16:41when he won the election, that all his senior staffers believe
0:16:41 > 0:16:44he's unfit to be president, and that the Trump campaigns links
0:16:44 > 0:16:46to Russia were, in Steve Bannon's view, treasonous.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48Since publication, Michael Wolff's own reputation has come under fire
0:16:48 > 0:16:54while sales of his book continue to soar, and he joins me now.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56Let me start, welcome, by asking you about
0:16:56 > 0:16:58Let me start, welcome, by asking you about your access. Did you get to
0:16:58 > 0:17:04talk to the president once he had become president Costa I spent about
0:17:04 > 0:17:07three hours in one-on-one conversations with the president
0:17:07 > 0:17:11over the course of the campaign, the transition and in the White House,
0:17:11 > 0:17:17yes. And I read an account of you being able to sit on a sofa just
0:17:17 > 0:17:20outside the Oval Office while people were coming and going for hours and
0:17:20 > 0:17:26hours.Is that true? That is true. So you had very good access. Why
0:17:26 > 0:17:31would they give someone like you, not a natural prompt supporter, such
0:17:31 > 0:17:39good access? -- not a natural Donald Trump supporter, such good access?I
0:17:39 > 0:17:43don't really know the answer to that but I would guess that they are
0:17:43 > 0:17:46totally incompetent. They don't really know what they are doing, it
0:17:46 > 0:17:51is the White House in chaos, so I was able to slip in. Beyond that,
0:17:51 > 0:17:56the president and I have got on in the past.In the past. Uate total
0:17:56 > 0:18:04loser.Now I am a total loser. Before that, I was the best, the
0:18:04 > 0:18:10greatest.But to be clear, you spoke to him in the White House?I did,
0:18:10 > 0:18:18yes.For those who don't know the book, the overall message is that
0:18:18 > 0:18:23President Trump is not fit to be the president?It is not my message, I
0:18:23 > 0:18:27was very clear about that. It is the people around him, his closest
0:18:27 > 0:18:32advisers who have that message.When we have got the terrible shooting
0:18:32 > 0:18:37and all these people coming to him on the street, is he capable of
0:18:37 > 0:18:44having empathy for them, to change policy on guns, or example?I don't
0:18:44 > 0:18:48think you can change policy on guns in America because his base, that is
0:18:48 > 0:18:54arguably the most important issue for his base. There is no
0:18:54 > 0:18:58possibility under the political son that he can change direction on
0:18:58 > 0:19:05that. Even if he has empathy, which he probably doesn't or would have to
0:19:05 > 0:19:10dig deeper than he has ever dug. Michael, many people would say the
0:19:10 > 0:19:16trouble with this is that it is a liberal Washington or New York
0:19:16 > 0:19:20fantasies. In other words, people like you never wanted him to win,
0:19:20 > 0:19:28are upset that he has one...Let me clarify that. I get criticism from
0:19:28 > 0:19:33the other side that I was too nice to Trump before I got into the White
0:19:33 > 0:19:39House. I have no political axe at all to grind here. I may be one of
0:19:39 > 0:19:42the few writers, and it's probably one of the reasons I got access to
0:19:42 > 0:19:48begin with, I was only interested in Donald Trump as a character. I knew
0:19:48 > 0:19:53that would be a story. I was perfectly willing to write Donald
0:19:53 > 0:19:58Trump is the unexpected success story.That isn't the book you read,
0:19:58 > 0:20:04however.That was not the circumstance that I found.And you
0:20:04 > 0:20:08are now under attack, even for some liberal mainstream newspapers for
0:20:08 > 0:20:12the accuracy of this. Let me ask you about a few things. Tony Blair was
0:20:12 > 0:20:15outraged about what you said about him trying to get a job as part of
0:20:15 > 0:20:22the Middle East Quartet?Let me rush to this, I sat in the White House on
0:20:22 > 0:20:28the couch listening, I wasn't supposed to overhear this but they
0:20:28 > 0:20:34were standing right there, with Tony Blair and Gerald Kushner standing
0:20:34 > 0:20:41not 15 feet in front of me with Tony Blair, let's choose my words
0:20:41 > 0:20:48carefully, sucking up to Gerald Kushner.But as he says, and I
0:20:48 > 0:20:51quote, this story is a complete fabrication literally from beginning
0:20:51 > 0:20:56to end, I have never had such conversation in the White House,
0:20:56 > 0:21:01outside of the White House, with anybody else.So I would have to say
0:21:01 > 0:21:06that Tony Blair is a complete liar. Literally 15 feet away from me. You
0:21:06 > 0:21:12are saying he is a complete liar.In this instance, absolutely.One of
0:21:12 > 0:21:19the things about this, I mean, I really enjoyed it, the book, but I
0:21:19 > 0:21:23was never sure whether I was reading a very novelistic account or whether
0:21:23 > 0:21:26this was good old-fashioned journalism. There were lots of great
0:21:26 > 0:21:29marks around things and I wasn't sure whether you were there
0:21:29 > 0:21:33recording or if you were putting... Let me ask you, you have read Bob
0:21:33 > 0:21:41Woodward's accounts? There was no difference here. This is the way you
0:21:41 > 0:21:47get to see what's going on inside the White House, is you need a
0:21:47 > 0:21:51writer to make some deals. Let's be perfectly honest. And the deals are,
0:21:51 > 0:21:57you will tell me what you know, you are a close presidential aide, and I
0:21:57 > 0:22:03will protect you. I won't say that I spoke to you.I understand the
0:22:03 > 0:22:06technique, but the problem is that as a reader you are never absolutely
0:22:06 > 0:22:10sure what happened or not and that allows a certain amount of innuendo
0:22:10 > 0:22:14and in particular there has been the innuendo about the United Nations
0:22:14 > 0:22:18ambassador having an affair with President Trump. Again, she is
0:22:18 > 0:22:21outraged by this and she feels that you have been pushing forward this
0:22:21 > 0:22:25general suggestion that there was an affair that.There is no suggestion
0:22:25 > 0:22:30in the book of that. There was a suggestion made on a comedy show in
0:22:30 > 0:22:35the US that I had suggested this. So I can put this to rest. I don't know
0:22:35 > 0:22:39who the president is having an affair with. Do I believe the
0:22:39 > 0:22:45president is having an affair? It's Donald Trump.But again, it's
0:22:45 > 0:22:51innuendo. It's Donald Trump.Well, let's talk innuendo. Let's follow
0:22:51 > 0:22:56that down. Here is a man whose career and life have been about
0:22:56 > 0:23:03pursuing women. He's been very open about this. He's been in the women
0:23:03 > 0:23:06pursuing business.Beauty, fashion... He is now in the White
0:23:06 > 0:23:11House, surrounded by...But that is exactly the point. This man who has
0:23:11 > 0:23:15had this career is now in the White House. The White House has not
0:23:15 > 0:23:19cleansed him of anything else, his behaviour has not changed over any
0:23:19 > 0:23:22detail in the White House. Do you think it's changed over this day
0:23:22 > 0:23:29tell? I don't know.You made -- do you think it's changed over this
0:23:29 > 0:23:40detail? You made the assertion that the ambassador was embracing this
0:23:40 > 0:23:46story but she has not.Actually, I didn't accuse her of anything and
0:23:46 > 0:23:50she hasn't been accused of anything, certainly not by me. Certainly, she
0:23:50 > 0:23:56was denying this. I will say again, I don't know who the president is
0:23:56 > 0:24:00having an affair with. I don't know what his habits are in that regard
0:24:00 > 0:24:05in the White House. If I did know, that certainly would have been in
0:24:05 > 0:24:09the book.But you don't know that he wasn't and you don't know if he is.
0:24:09 > 0:24:14You assume that he is.Yes, I assume, I assume because this is
0:24:14 > 0:24:18Donald Trump and I think that's an absolutely fair assumption.Michael
0:24:18 > 0:24:21Wolff, thanks very much indeed for talking to us.
0:24:21 > 0:24:22Coming up here a little later...
0:24:22 > 0:24:24The Sunday Politics with Sarah Smith.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26She will be joined by the former Conservative
0:24:26 > 0:24:27leader, Iain Duncan Smith.
0:24:27 > 0:24:29And Labour MPs Frank Field and Stella Creasy will be
0:24:29 > 0:24:31discussing their party's developing policy on Brexit.
0:24:31 > 0:24:37That's the Sunday Politics here on BBC One at 11am.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39Talking of developing policies...
0:24:39 > 0:24:43Ahead of a week where we are told Jeremy Corbyn is going to change
0:24:43 > 0:24:46policy and embrace a customs union with the EU after we leave,
0:24:46 > 0:24:48that potentially faces Theresa May with a major Commons crisis,
0:24:48 > 0:24:50so is this genuine convinction, or a piece of brutal
0:24:50 > 0:24:51parliamentary tactics?
0:24:51 > 0:24:55Sir Keir Starmer, Labour's Brexit Secretary, is here.
0:24:55 > 0:25:01Good morning. Welcome. Can I ask there is double what the Labour
0:25:01 > 0:25:05position is on a customs union?We long championed being in a customs
0:25:05 > 0:25:09union with the EU and the benefits of that. Obviously is the only way
0:25:09 > 0:25:12realistically to get tariff free access. It's really important for
0:25:12 > 0:25:17our manufacturing base and nobody can answer the question can you keep
0:25:17 > 0:25:20your commitment to know how border in Northern Ireland without a
0:25:20 > 0:25:25customs union. In the general election and since we have
0:25:25 > 0:25:28consistently said that the benefits of a customs union must be
0:25:28 > 0:25:32maintained, then over the summer I laid out the transitional
0:25:32 > 0:25:35arrangements of being in a customs union and said then that it ought to
0:25:35 > 0:25:40be an option on the table. We have then had many weeks of discussion
0:25:40 > 0:25:43unanimously and we have agreed to develop our policy. Jeremy will
0:25:43 > 0:25:48announce that tomorrow.So this is, as it were, laying to rest the last
0:25:48 > 0:25:52shreds of any doubt about whether you will be in favour of a customs
0:25:52 > 0:25:56union. What kind of a customs union do you want?Well, the customs
0:25:56 > 0:26:00arrangements at the moment are hard-wired into the treaty. There
0:26:00 > 0:26:03will have to be a new treaty. It will do the work of the customs
0:26:03 > 0:26:10union. So is our customs union, it is what the amendments are all
0:26:10 > 0:26:13saying. They will have to be an agreement. But will it do the work
0:26:13 > 0:26:17of the current customs union? Yes, that is the intention.So, under
0:26:17 > 0:26:22your plan, after we leave the EU, who will be in charge of foreign
0:26:22 > 0:26:26trade arrangements for Britain with the EU?That will have to be
0:26:26 > 0:26:29arranged. We will have to have a say. We all want more trade
0:26:29 > 0:26:34agreements and we are more likely to get them if we do it jointly with
0:26:34 > 0:26:41the EU ban on our own and all the evidence suggests more likely with
0:26:41 > 0:26:44the EU and the evidence suggests that coming out of the EU and the
0:26:44 > 0:26:55customs union and having a separate effect would be much more costly.
0:26:55 > 0:26:59But that would mean the EU were still setting our trade around the
0:26:59 > 0:27:04world and we can't do bold deals with the United States or elsewhere?
0:27:04 > 0:27:11Obviously we all want bold new trade deals, and how that was done would
0:27:11 > 0:27:17have to be organised within a new trade arrangements. The question is,
0:27:17 > 0:27:22are they more likely with or without the EU, whether you do it on your
0:27:22 > 0:27:27own? Liam Fox that he would have 40 trade agreements for 30 months' time
0:27:27 > 0:27:34to sign. -- for 13 months' time. It will come to a crunch because there
0:27:34 > 0:27:37are various amendments in Parliament, as you know.When you
0:27:37 > 0:27:46know it is not -- you say it is not worth us leaving the customs union
0:27:46 > 0:27:50in order to do deals with the United States and Australia, what makes you
0:27:50 > 0:27:54say that?If you look at the independent analysis and the
0:27:54 > 0:27:57government's own analysis, they all point in one direction, that the
0:27:57 > 0:28:01benefits of us doing it on our own are much smaller than anyone is
0:28:01 > 0:28:05prepared to admit and the cost is much higher. I don't think there is
0:28:05 > 0:28:09any evidence out there, and if Liam Fox has got some evidence, maybe he
0:28:09 > 0:28:12can share that with us, I don't think there is any evidence from a
0:28:12 > 0:28:15credible source base that there is an advantage of doing it narrowing.
0:28:15 > 0:28:22In him, we have -- here, we have obligations to our manufacturing
0:28:22 > 0:28:29base, to Northern Ireland. Nobody is saying that we can keep to the
0:28:29 > 0:28:31commitment of noble hardboard in Northern Ireland without a customs
0:28:31 > 0:28:38union.If it is not deeply unattractive to stay tied to a
0:28:38 > 0:28:45customs union once we leave?No, the referendum is that we must leave the
0:28:45 > 0:28:51EU, it was a close result,
0:28:52 > 0:28:54EU, it was a close result, 48, 52... But there is disagreement in your
0:28:54 > 0:28:59party amongst this. Here a point is made saying it is deeply
0:28:59 > 0:29:03unattractive to stay in the customs union, including us from making
0:29:03 > 0:29:09trade agreements with our five largest export markets outside the
0:29:09 > 0:29:15EU. He has lost that argument in the Labour Party?Barry Gardner said
0:29:15 > 0:29:20that speaking largely for himself. A lot of water has gone under the
0:29:20 > 0:29:24bridge since then. We reached a unanimous agreement regarding our
0:29:24 > 0:29:27position on the customs union and that means unanimous.There is a
0:29:27 > 0:29:40slightly menacing amendment made by Anna Sue Brie. What will your
0:29:40 > 0:29:45reaction to that be?The Labour Party put down amendments paving the
0:29:45 > 0:29:53way for a customs union. Now these amendments have been put up
0:29:53 > 0:30:00basically saying the same thing. Basically, crunch time is coming for
0:30:00 > 0:30:05the Prime Minister.So you will back those amendments?They are so close
0:30:05 > 0:30:09to our own, we have to make a final decision, but whether it is our
0:30:09 > 0:30:11amendments or the cross-party amendments, crunch time is coming
0:30:11 > 0:30:15for the Prime Minister because the majority of parliament does not back
0:30:15 > 0:30:18her approach to a customs union and the majority of Parliament needs to
0:30:18 > 0:30:24be heard and it will be heard sooner rather than later.If you got such
0:30:24 > 0:30:28an amendment through, this would blow a massive hole straight through
0:30:28 > 0:30:32Theresa May's negotiating plans and Burton Hasbro Minister. Surely what
0:30:32 > 0:30:35she will then do is tie this to a vote of confidence and their
0:30:35 > 0:30:40harrowing MPs do call an election. How she handles this is a matter for
0:30:40 > 0:30:48her. We said from the outset that what is being negotiated is the next
0:30:48 > 0:30:5220 or 30 years of our future. Parliament ought to have a voice in
0:30:52 > 0:30:56that. The Prime Minister has pushed Parliament away and Parliament is
0:30:56 > 0:31:00coming back to be heard.This is brutal and slightly cynical
0:31:00 > 0:31:04parliamentary tactics designed to get Theresa May out of Downing
0:31:04 > 0:31:09Street and Jeremy Corbyn in, isn't it?Andrew, I pick every time I have
0:31:09 > 0:31:14been on the programme I have championed the customs union. I have
0:31:14 > 0:31:17never suggested otherwise. It was in our manifesto, in our position last
0:31:17 > 0:31:21summer and we have developed that unanimously. Obviously these
0:31:21 > 0:31:24amendments are coming out but the position you put to me is not
0:31:24 > 0:31:29accurate.
0:31:29 > 0:31:32From the other side, 80 senior colleagues making another point, if
0:31:32 > 0:31:37you are going to be in a customs union, you have to accept a lot of
0:31:37 > 0:31:41EU regulations and laws and ways of doing things, if you do that, why
0:31:41 > 0:31:47not just stayed in the single market as well?Do you want to be close to
0:31:47 > 0:31:51the EU or distant?We know your answer is close.We have always said
0:31:51 > 0:31:57the benefits of the single market must be in the final agreement and
0:31:57 > 0:32:03that is an important commitment. However you
0:32:05 > 0:32:07However you arrive at that, whatever the instrument or agreement, the
0:32:07 > 0:32:10benefits have to be there. Labour is agreed on the end state. There is an
0:32:10 > 0:32:12argument about how you get there. You could be actually in the single
0:32:12 > 0:32:20market, not in the single market, very close?If you want to be close
0:32:20 > 0:32:23or distant, we are united saying we want to be close, there is an
0:32:23 > 0:32:27argument about how we do it, but the benefits of the single market have
0:32:27 > 0:32:32to be in the final agreement, as far as we are concerned. There are
0:32:32 > 0:32:35arguments about the model. The unity of purpose is important.It is the
0:32:35 > 0:32:41kind of thing Guy Verhofstadt told me, what we want is an association
0:32:41 > 0:32:46agreement between the UK and the EU which includes a free trade
0:32:46 > 0:32:50agreement, roughly speaking where Labour might end up as well.It
0:32:50 > 0:32:54might be a new agreement, the question is, how close and whether
0:32:54 > 0:32:58we really get the benefits of the single market and the customs union,
0:32:58 > 0:33:02and that has been our focus throughout. What is important is you
0:33:02 > 0:33:06have not got that clarity from the Government, different noises coming
0:33:06 > 0:33:15out of the meetings last week.Liam Fox will be admirably clear, we will
0:33:15 > 0:33:22see. All of the people in the Labour Party, Brexit supporters, lots of
0:33:22 > 0:33:30constituencies which are pro-Brexit, Frank Field says you are breaking
0:33:30 > 0:33:35faith with the core Labour pro Brexit vote.We have respected the
0:33:35 > 0:33:41referendum outcome, we voted to trickle out of 450 -- trigger
0:33:41 > 0:33:46Article 50. We have to make choices for the future of our country and a
0:33:46 > 0:33:50customs union is really important because we have a manufacturing base
0:33:50 > 0:33:54to protect, economy and jobs to protect. We also need to reflect the
0:33:54 > 0:33:59fact it was a 52-48 split and we have to have an approach respecting
0:33:59 > 0:34:04the outcome but brings the country together.To conclude, in the huge
0:34:04 > 0:34:09national choice between staying close to the EU and remaining and
0:34:09 > 0:34:12essentially European kind of country on the one hand and diverging and
0:34:12 > 0:34:17being a different country on the other, use a crunch time is how far
0:34:17 > 0:34:21away now?It depends when the amendments come up and there was the
0:34:21 > 0:34:24meaningful vote in October which will be a big moment and it has to
0:34:24 > 0:34:28be meaningful and I do not think we should accept the proposition it is
0:34:28 > 0:34:34a take it or leave it vote. Parliament has to speak on this.Are
0:34:34 > 0:34:38you pleased to see Ken Livingstone coming back into the Labour Party?I
0:34:38 > 0:34:43have read the reports, I took a strong view on this at the time, he
0:34:43 > 0:34:48is still suspended, but I do not know the detail than what I have
0:34:48 > 0:34:54read before.Should he stay suspended?It runs out in April. It
0:34:54 > 0:34:59is not a decision for me, I have plenty on my plate.You do. Thank
0:34:59 > 0:35:02you for talking to us.
0:35:02 > 0:35:04For 30 years, readers of the Daily Telegraph have
0:35:04 > 0:35:07started their morning by looking for a thumb-sized squiggle
0:35:07 > 0:35:09on the front page.
0:35:09 > 0:35:11It's the pocket cartoon by Matt and this is today's, glorious as ever.
0:35:11 > 0:35:14Matt Pritchett has become Britain's favourite cartoonist.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23Good philosophical question.
0:35:23 > 0:35:26He is camera-shy, but we tracked him down at his desk earlier this week.
0:35:26 > 0:35:30He began by telling me why he tends to focus on ordinary people,
0:35:30 > 0:35:32rather than the famous.
0:35:32 > 0:35:35Well, that was a decision I made when I realised
0:35:35 > 0:35:42I couldn't do caricatures, so I thought I would make my jokes
0:35:42 > 0:35:44about the news affecting ordinary people and actually makes you a bit
0:35:44 > 0:35:47more creative, if you have to think, I don't want to draw Theresa May,
0:35:47 > 0:35:50but I want to draw how her policies are affecting people.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52You've had an absolutely stellar career here,
0:35:52 > 0:35:54but it started almost as an accident, is that right?
0:35:54 > 0:35:59It did start as an accident.
0:35:59 > 0:36:03It was the day that the Telegraph printed the wrong date on the front
0:36:03 > 0:36:05of the Telegraph and they said it was Thursday, 25th
0:36:05 > 0:36:08of February, a day early.
0:36:08 > 0:36:12And the readers were so furious, they all rang in to say,
0:36:12 > 0:36:19I've had a row in the post office and I've been to a doctor's
0:36:19 > 0:36:23appointment that didn't happen, so Max Hastings, who was the editor,
0:36:23 > 0:36:25had to write a front-page apology and they said,
0:36:25 > 0:36:28we need a cartoon with this.
0:36:28 > 0:36:33And I was literally just standing there, not doing anything,
0:36:33 > 0:36:35so they got me to do a cartoon.
0:36:35 > 0:36:36That was my first.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39Gave you a pen and that is how it started?
0:36:39 > 0:36:41Exactly, exactly.
0:36:41 > 0:36:46So let's just talk a little bit about a typical day,
0:36:46 > 0:36:49you are arrive on the train, you knock your pipe out
0:36:49 > 0:36:50and you walk into the office.
0:36:50 > 0:36:54I arrive about eight and read the papers and I see what the other
0:36:54 > 0:36:57cartoonists have done and if I see a good joke by another
0:36:57 > 0:36:59cartoonist, I fly into a rage.
0:36:59 > 0:37:01You never steal it?
0:37:01 > 0:37:02It's too late by then.
0:37:02 > 0:37:06You can't, exactly.
0:37:06 > 0:37:10And then I write down every subject I could possibly think of a joke
0:37:10 > 0:37:15on and it's a bit like colonic irrigation, you have to get
0:37:15 > 0:37:20the rubbish out first.
0:37:20 > 0:37:25And I have this tradition that I take six cartoons over to show
0:37:25 > 0:37:31the chap in charge of page one and it's amazing how
0:37:31 > 0:37:38many times I have five roughed ideas and think,
0:37:38 > 0:37:40well, I've just got to think of a sixth because I
0:37:40 > 0:37:41always take him six.
0:37:41 > 0:37:42And that is the one.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45And we live in a scary and dangerous world and very often
0:37:45 > 0:37:48I find your cartoons make it less scary for us.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51So I'm thinking, for instance, your famous cartoon during the BSE
0:37:51 > 0:37:53scandal, a lot of us were really worried about mad cows
0:37:53 > 0:38:01and all the rest of it, and you had this lovely one
0:38:04 > 0:38:06of the cow sitting beside a passenger in
0:38:06 > 0:38:08a bus, and it somehow domesticates the horror.
0:38:08 > 0:38:11Well, I can't remember who it was who said that nothing
0:38:11 > 0:38:13matters very much and hardly anything matters at all.
0:38:13 > 0:38:16But if I say that to myself 50 times a day then you do think,
0:38:16 > 0:38:22actually, let's calm down, there must be a funny side to this.
0:38:22 > 0:38:25I mean, some things there aren't a funny side to,
0:38:25 > 0:38:27but most of the time, you can sort of diffuse
0:38:27 > 0:38:28the situation with the joke.
0:38:28 > 0:38:30And we see again and again big political stories,
0:38:30 > 0:38:33I'm thinking of the MP expenses scandal which gave you lots
0:38:33 > 0:38:35and lots of cartoons, lovely one of the ducks
0:38:35 > 0:38:36and the plasma television.
0:38:36 > 0:38:39Again, often you find you have two people sitting in armchairs
0:38:39 > 0:38:42with a TV in front of them, chap's got his pipe, are they based
0:38:42 > 0:38:43on real people at all?
0:38:43 > 0:38:44It is top secret.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47They were real people and I do think about them when I'm
0:38:47 > 0:38:48thinking about the news.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51I think, how will they react when they hear about MPs' expenses
0:38:51 > 0:38:53or how will Brexit affect them?
0:38:53 > 0:38:56It just sort of helps to bring everything down
0:38:56 > 0:39:00to the human level, really.
0:39:00 > 0:39:04When I first started drawing them, I thought they were fools, but now,
0:39:04 > 0:39:07of course, a bit like owners who end up looking like their dogs,
0:39:07 > 0:39:09I have turned into this...
0:39:09 > 0:39:10Sitting there with your pipe.
0:39:10 > 0:39:13Now I think he's the only one who speaks any sense.
0:39:13 > 0:39:19I am obsessed by when my bin is going to be emptied
0:39:19 > 0:39:22and all the other things that obsess him, so I know I am
0:39:22 > 0:39:23turning into him now.
0:39:23 > 0:39:26Again, it's about everyday life, things that we all go through.
0:39:26 > 0:39:28I'm thinking of particular cartoons on two alcohol-free days a week,
0:39:28 > 0:39:29I'm trying to do three.
0:39:29 > 0:39:34Drinking does seem to be a subject Telegraph readers care deeply
0:39:34 > 0:39:38about and they don't like being told to drink less, so I can't do enough
0:39:38 > 0:39:39jokes about drinking.
0:39:39 > 0:39:40What about Brexit?
0:39:40 > 0:39:45Because this is immeasurably complicated, endlessly complex,
0:39:45 > 0:39:48goes on forever, and in a sense, I guess, must be
0:39:48 > 0:39:51a cartoonist's nightmare.
0:39:51 > 0:39:55Well, because of the 30th anniversary, I was going
0:39:55 > 0:40:00through cartoons when I started and we were all obsessed
0:40:00 > 0:40:02about the Maastricht Treaty, so, for me, it's been
0:40:02 > 0:40:07going on since the '90s.
0:40:07 > 0:40:11I would like to say to Theresa, if she could move it on a bit,
0:40:11 > 0:40:14I'm running out of jokes about transition, so if
0:40:14 > 0:40:16she could sort of...
0:40:16 > 0:40:17I'm sure she will be watching.
0:40:17 > 0:40:18Yes, exactly.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20Are there any things you won't make jokes about?
0:40:20 > 0:40:25I try and avoid anything where anyone's been killed.
0:40:25 > 0:40:29I did do a joke after the Charlie Hebdo massacre
0:40:29 > 0:40:32because I felt, as a cartoonist, you couldn't avoid...
0:40:32 > 0:40:33Cartoonist solidarity.
0:40:33 > 0:40:38Yeah, exactly.
0:40:38 > 0:40:40Among the other people who are watching, reading
0:40:40 > 0:40:42the jokes in the cartoon, the Duke of Edinburgh,
0:40:42 > 0:40:45you got a letter from him saying he was a fan,
0:40:45 > 0:40:46I gather?
0:40:46 > 0:40:47I was amazed.
0:40:47 > 0:40:49I was thrilled and touched and amazed.
0:40:49 > 0:40:51And you don't know when you are drawing them who is looking.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53It really was a high point.
0:40:53 > 0:40:54So I was very, very moved.
0:40:54 > 0:40:57Matt, you have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure
0:40:57 > 0:40:58for many, many years.
0:40:58 > 0:40:59Thanks very much indeed.
0:40:59 > 0:41:00That was fun.
0:41:00 > 0:41:01Back to Brexit.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04The key Cabinet Ministers have come to some kind of agreement,
0:41:04 > 0:41:06but it's very unclear what it really means.
0:41:06 > 0:41:08The International Trade Secretary was there,
0:41:08 > 0:41:09so presumably Liam Fox knows.
0:41:09 > 0:41:13He joins me now.
0:41:13 > 0:41:19You know but you're not going to tell us?That is a fair summary. Let
0:41:19 > 0:41:23me ask you about this word everyone is talking about, diverging.It
0:41:23 > 0:41:30seems a very abstract thing. What is it?What is important is Britain's
0:41:30 > 0:41:36freedom to act differently in the future. If you look at Britain's
0:41:36 > 0:41:43trading performance in 2005-2006, 50 6% of Britain's exports went to the
0:41:43 > 0:41:49EU. That is down to 43%. The reverse is true of the rest of the world. We
0:41:49 > 0:41:55are exporting water the rest of the world outside of Europe. If you look
0:41:55 > 0:42:01at what the IMF have said, they say 90% of global growth in the next
0:42:01 > 0:42:1010-50 years, outside Europe. We need to orientate ourselves
0:42:10 > 0:42:12to orientate ourselves towards the big economies. That is not to say
0:42:12 > 0:42:14the EU will not remain a very important export market for the UK,
0:42:14 > 0:42:17but we need to be free to orientate ourselves towards areas where there
0:42:17 > 0:42:21will be more trade.To do that, we need to do things very differently?
0:42:21 > 0:42:27We need to be free to take decisions for ourselves. There has been talk
0:42:27 > 0:42:31of customs unions, as we have heard this morning. The key thing it puts
0:42:31 > 0:42:36a big frontier around and it means we all applied the same duties to
0:42:36 > 0:42:41things coming in. First of all, we would be like to be able to alter
0:42:41 > 0:42:44those, we would like to cut some duties that the EU currently applies
0:42:44 > 0:42:49to developing countries.I absolutely understand the ambition,
0:42:49 > 0:42:54what seems to me to be borderline dishonest is to say we can have all
0:42:54 > 0:43:01of that and a generous free trade agreement with the EU. To use Donald
0:43:01 > 0:43:05Tusk's word, pure illusion.We will wait and see where the negotiations
0:43:05 > 0:43:09take us. If you are looking what is in our interests, we have to look at
0:43:09 > 0:43:14what is in the interests of the EU. The EU has a massive surplus with
0:43:14 > 0:43:19the UK on goods, something like £100 billion in the last year. Cannot
0:43:19 > 0:43:25have that free trade agreement with the UK would mean European exporters
0:43:25 > 0:43:28would be at a huge disadvantage -- to not have that free trade
0:43:28 > 0:43:35agreement.Now we are saying we want to divert from your laws where it
0:43:35 > 0:43:39suits us, stick with it where it suits us, thank you, and they see
0:43:39 > 0:43:44that as a direct and serious threat to their way of living in creating
0:43:44 > 0:43:49this union, that is why they are all unanimously and very clearly saying,
0:43:49 > 0:43:54you are not going to cherry pick, if you try, we will keep you out of our
0:43:54 > 0:43:58markets.We will see, that is the opinion of the commission and I
0:43:58 > 0:44:01understand why, they are the guardians of the treaties, but
0:44:01 > 0:44:05whether that is what the member states will want. We will see as we
0:44:05 > 0:44:11go through what governments do. It is a question of putting political
0:44:11 > 0:44:17ideology or this prosperity of your people first and negotiations?The
0:44:17 > 0:44:21EU is a set menu restaurant, not a cart, it is not possible for the UK
0:44:21 > 0:44:25to be aligned to the EU when it suits and not when it doesn't,
0:44:25 > 0:44:34national leader saying what they are saying in the centre as well
0:44:34 > 0:44:36saying in the centre as well -- not a la carte.We will make our case
0:44:36 > 0:44:39and we will make our case not just on what is good that the UK but what
0:44:39 > 0:44:44we also think is good for the EU, it does not make any sense for the EU
0:44:44 > 0:44:48to tie itself up in tariffs sending more money to the UK Exchequer than
0:44:48 > 0:44:53we would be sending in the other direction, that does not make sense
0:44:53 > 0:44:58for European businesses, consumers, so we will ultimately have to sit
0:44:58 > 0:45:01down, very hard-headed, and we understand their starting position,
0:45:01 > 0:45:06we will have to
0:45:08 > 0:45:10we will have to look at what is in mutual benefit and considering the
0:45:10 > 0:45:12trends in the wider global economy, the global economy is moving away
0:45:12 > 0:45:14from hard-wired harmonisation to equivalence.We stopped off in the
0:45:14 > 0:45:19same position and over time we diverged where it suits us and there
0:45:19 > 0:45:23will have to be somebody deciding how it works and so on, but over
0:45:23 > 0:45:28time, we will be a different kind of economy and a different kind of
0:45:28 > 0:45:31society, just tell me what kind of difference to Britain you would like
0:45:31 > 0:45:36to see in ten years time.You are asking me to accept the assumption
0:45:36 > 0:45:40that it is what we have agreed.It is what you have agreed.I do not
0:45:40 > 0:45:46think it was Number 10, you will see the full context when the Prime
0:45:46 > 0:45:50Minister sets it out on Friday. I want to see the UK able to make its
0:45:50 > 0:45:57own decisions that allow us to vary what we do in times of -- in terms
0:45:57 > 0:46:01of tariffs. I want us to take the opportunities with countries like
0:46:01 > 0:46:07China to look at service agreements. The put it into context for people
0:46:07 > 0:46:11watching, by 2030, China will have 220 cities of more than 1 million
0:46:11 > 0:46:16people, the whole of Europe will have 35.The scale of the change.
0:46:16 > 0:46:20Jeremy Hunt says the central common understanding there will be areas of
0:46:20 > 0:46:25industry where we agreed to align regulations with EU regulations, the
0:46:25 > 0:46:29automotive industry is an obvious one, but it will be voluntary. We
0:46:29 > 0:46:33will have the right to choose to diverged and we will not be
0:46:33 > 0:46:37accepting changes and rules because the EU decides. But as broadly
0:46:37 > 0:46:43speaking where we are?
0:46:43 > 0:46:47It's a great try, the third try, but I will not be setting out what we
0:46:47 > 0:46:52have agreed. We want to be war makers in our own country, not rule
0:46:52 > 0:46:56takers. As part of the single market, you have to take the EU's
0:46:56 > 0:47:05rules -- we want to be rule makers, not rule takers.Jeremy Corbyn Hunt
0:47:05 > 0:47:13said that after the -- Jeremy Hunt said that after the meeting, so is
0:47:13 > 0:47:18that not what was said that at the Prime Minister will set out what was
0:47:18 > 0:47:27said on Friday.Will any arrangement that we enter into actually
0:47:27 > 0:47:30that we enter into actually honour that commitment.You are saying we
0:47:30 > 0:47:36will have full freedom to diverge if we want to?I am saying we will have
0:47:36 > 0:47:43full freedom to have an independent trade policy. This debate we are
0:47:43 > 0:47:46having this morning on the customs union. We are going to leave the
0:47:46 > 0:47:51customs union, I think both parties are agreed on that. Labour say they
0:47:51 > 0:47:57want to join a customs union. What do they mean by that? Is it like for
0:47:57 > 0:48:02Turkey, where they have a customs union for goods but not other
0:48:02 > 0:48:07sectors? If it to do with freedom in certain sectors and not others?He
0:48:07 > 0:48:12has been much clearer than you have been and above all, this is about
0:48:12 > 0:48:18the kind of society we are going to be. Do you want to be more
0:48:18 > 0:48:21deregulated economy and Peter, where we can hire and fire people more
0:48:21 > 0:48:28easily?In terms of workers' rights, no it's not. In terms of Digital the
0:48:28 > 0:48:35economy, do we need to be able to move with that? Yes, we do. Can we
0:48:35 > 0:48:40do that in the European Union? No, we can't, because France block it.
0:48:40 > 0:48:46You are being very cuddly. You have said it is intellectually
0:48:46 > 0:48:50unsustainable to say that workers' rights should be untouchable? Do you
0:48:50 > 0:48:56still believe that?We have come to an agreement that we will maintain
0:48:56 > 0:48:59those rights and I will tell you why, because as part of the rollover
0:48:59 > 0:49:03of the EU agreements that we are party to, those rates are entrenched
0:49:03 > 0:49:07in those and we said we would respect those as we roll them over.
0:49:07 > 0:49:12Isn't this the truth, that this is the beginning of the journey? We
0:49:12 > 0:49:17have this agreement and then we see what happened though the term. Once
0:49:17 > 0:49:21we can diverged, we can diverge as much as we like. This is the
0:49:21 > 0:49:24beginning of a journey to much less regulated Britain. That is why the
0:49:24 > 0:49:29EU is so concerned, because they think we will be a Hong Kong or a
0:49:29 > 0:49:38thing apart -- a Singapore on the northern border.We have to stop
0:49:38 > 0:49:41seeing the EU as the centre of this. We are talking to the rest of the
0:49:41 > 0:49:49world. I do not begin this debate by saying how much of the EU do I take
0:49:49 > 0:49:52with me question mark I begin the debate by saying what of Britain can
0:49:52 > 0:49:56guarantee that we can and money in the picture so that future
0:49:56 > 0:50:03generations can pay for the public services that want.You heard Keir
0:50:03 > 0:50:07Starmer talking about Labour backing for these motions by Tory rebels.
0:50:07 > 0:50:10They have the numbers to blow a massive hole right through this
0:50:10 > 0:50:15process. What is your message to them?Well, as a formal whip first
0:50:15 > 0:50:19of all, I am always wary about debates, but that aside, I would say
0:50:19 > 0:50:29to my colleagues, Theresa May has kept a broad range of views on the
0:50:29 > 0:50:34European union for a reason.Because she loses power if she doesn't.We
0:50:34 > 0:50:40sat down, we looked at the issues, we came to an agreement we are all
0:50:40 > 0:50:44happy with and I think that when the rest of the Parliamentary party
0:50:44 > 0:50:50hears on Friday as the Prime Minister said that out, they will
0:50:50 > 0:50:55hear and I hope that they will have an open mind and I think what they
0:50:55 > 0:51:00he will deal with a lot of the reservation they have had.Why are
0:51:00 > 0:51:07you delaying this? You are delaying it because you are going to lose on
0:51:07 > 0:51:10this amendment, aren't you?We want to persuade our colleagues on the
0:51:10 > 0:51:14merits of the argument before we take the bill forward and we are not
0:51:14 > 0:51:17going to do it on the basis of what suits the opposition. We will do it
0:51:17 > 0:51:22on the passing of a legislator... But you can't delayed much longer?
0:51:22 > 0:51:26We need to get the legislation through because if we don't have a
0:51:26 > 0:51:30deal with European Union, we were to be able to protect British business
0:51:30 > 0:51:34from dumping, for example, or massive subsidies. We need to
0:51:34 > 0:51:38protect British business. The Labour Party who voted against this bill
0:51:38 > 0:51:43will have to think twice or they leave British business like British
0:51:43 > 0:51:47Steel unprotected.So you are saying it is our way or no way at all?We
0:51:47 > 0:51:53have set out what we need to do to we believe on the result of the
0:51:53 > 0:51:57referendum to have control over our borders, laws and money and those
0:51:57 > 0:52:01who do not want to honour those will need to explain to the British
0:52:01 > 0:52:05people why they don't feel they have to do so.OK, can we talk about the
0:52:05 > 0:52:10transition period? Presumably if this new idea is turned down flat by
0:52:10 > 0:52:14the European Union, there will be no transition period either?Again, we
0:52:14 > 0:52:18go into this negotiation on the assumption that the European Council
0:52:18 > 0:52:22on March one have a negotiation on implementation as we will have an
0:52:22 > 0:52:26agreement on how we move forward. As I said earlier, I still think that
0:52:26 > 0:52:31the rational way forward is for the EU to come to an agreement on trade
0:52:31 > 0:52:34with the United Kingdom that Finau mutual interest. I don't see why we
0:52:34 > 0:52:40wouldn't do that -- that is in our mutual interest. I don't see why we
0:52:40 > 0:52:44wouldn't do that.Will you be able to sign trade deals with the rest of
0:52:44 > 0:52:49the world during the transition period?Yes, we would be able to
0:52:49 > 0:52:54sign and agree but not implement, because within the transition period
0:52:54 > 0:52:57we couldn't implement something. What we would want to negotiate and
0:52:57 > 0:53:01signed so that we could implement at the end of the period itself.So you
0:53:01 > 0:53:05would have a deal with Donald Trump's America and Australia had
0:53:05 > 0:53:09all the others before the end of the transition period. It will all be
0:53:09 > 0:53:12there and you will be up to sign it and implemented immediately we
0:53:12 > 0:53:16leave?We have got 14 working groups working with 21 countries at the
0:53:16 > 0:53:20moment. We want to take those negotiations as far as we countering
0:53:20 > 0:53:26that limitation period. Not to do so would leave the United Kingdom
0:53:26 > 0:53:30incapable of making plans for our final Brexit position and that not a
0:53:30 > 0:53:34good position to be in.Your colleague Ben Bradley tweeted this
0:53:34 > 0:53:40after saying Jeremy Corbyn had been involved in spy allegations. I
0:53:40 > 0:53:44accept I caused upset and distress to Jeremy Corbyn by my country and
0:53:44 > 0:53:48false allegations and he has given money which has gone to a food bank
0:53:48 > 0:53:52in his constituency.Was that the right thing to happen? Yes, if you
0:53:52 > 0:53:56say something that is untrue, you have to say so. As somebody who has
0:53:56 > 0:54:00actually won a libel case that the High Court, it's infinitely better
0:54:00 > 0:54:05not to have to go through that.He said that Jeremy Corbyn had betrayed
0:54:05 > 0:54:10his country. Gavin Williamson, your successor as Defence Secretary, said
0:54:10 > 0:54:13that Jeremy Corbyn met foreign spies and that is a betrayal of his
0:54:13 > 0:54:20country. Is that true?Do you agree with him? It is perfectly legitimate
0:54:20 > 0:54:24for politicians and the media to ask questions.I wasn't asking that. Do
0:54:24 > 0:54:28you think Jeremy Corbyn betrayed this country?I think the Labour
0:54:28 > 0:54:32left during the Cold War where extremely unhelpful to this country.
0:54:32 > 0:54:36We believe that we should see off communism, we should see off
0:54:36 > 0:54:41tyranny.I am asking you, did he betray his country?I don't think I
0:54:41 > 0:54:49would use the word betray. But I certainly think the Labour left were
0:54:49 > 0:54:54idiots at that time.They Gavin Williamson said he betrayed his
0:54:54 > 0:54:58country.Should he apologise? I think this is part of the lively
0:54:58 > 0:55:03debate we have. It's not necessarily the word I would use but I certainly
0:55:03 > 0:55:09believe that Jeremy Corbyn and others were very useful to the
0:55:09 > 0:55:16Soviet Union during the Cold War.I will try more time -- one more time.
0:55:16 > 0:55:20Should Gavin Williamson apologised to Jeremy Corbyn for saying he
0:55:20 > 0:55:23betrayed his country?In the broader sense, he was undermining the
0:55:23 > 0:55:27country by siding with the Soviet Union in that argument. Luckily it
0:55:27 > 0:55:31was outside of the argument not Jeremy Corbyn's that won the day.So
0:55:31 > 0:55:35you do think he betrayed his country?I think the Labour left
0:55:35 > 0:55:38were certainly undermining the security of the country by their
0:55:38 > 0:55:45one-sided argument for a Soviet style communism in that period.I'm
0:55:45 > 0:55:49still not sure whether you think Gavin Williamson should apologise
0:55:49 > 0:55:52not for saying that Jeremy Corbyn betrayed his country?I don't
0:55:52 > 0:55:56believe that is necessary to apologise when it is very clear that
0:55:56 > 0:56:00Jeremy Corbyn and his fellow left-wingers were underlining our
0:56:00 > 0:56:06security which is the point that Gavin Williamson was making.Yes but
0:56:06 > 0:56:10no but yes but no but is how we leave.
0:56:10 > 0:56:13Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
0:56:13 > 0:56:21Join us at 10am when we will be asking if so to media is out of
0:56:21 > 0:56:29control, parliament looks at and Kylie Jenner wiped off 1 billion
0:56:29 > 0:56:34from Snapchat. And organ donation. See you at 10am on BBC One.
0:56:34 > 0:56:37There were plenty of stars at last Sunday's Baftas but the one
0:56:37 > 0:56:40they all applauded was the rising star that is Sheku Kanneh-Mason.
0:56:40 > 0:56:42The BBC Young Musician of the Year wowed the Albert Hall.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44His debut album is just out.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47Here he is with Bach's Cello Suite Number One in G Major.
0:56:47 > 0:56:53Until next week, goodbye.