0:00:02 > 0:00:04Good morning.
0:00:04 > 0:00:07As we shiver our way through more Siberian weather,
0:00:07 > 0:00:10this weekend our relationship with Russia is going
0:00:10 > 0:00:12through a truly dangerous crisis.
0:00:12 > 0:00:16It isn't just the alleged assassinations - it's also
0:00:16 > 0:00:19about the strength of our alliances, Britain's standing in the world.
0:00:19 > 0:00:21Or, to put it bluntly, in 2018, do the Russians care
0:00:21 > 0:00:24how angry Britain gets?
0:00:41 > 0:00:46Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, is with us to talk
0:00:46 > 0:00:48about the Russian crisis, and just possibly, one or two other
0:00:48 > 0:00:49issues of the moment.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52And I've been talking to one of the most senior Russian
0:00:52 > 0:00:54diplomats, Vladimir Putin's ambassador to the EU,
0:00:54 > 0:00:55Vladimir Chizhov.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58And in a week when Labour has been sharply divided about its response
0:00:58 > 0:01:01to the Salisbury attack, Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow
0:01:01 > 0:01:08Attorney General, Baroness Shami Chakrabarti.
0:01:11 > 0:01:12So a very busy hour ahead.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Before we get stuck into those conversations however,
0:01:15 > 0:01:18reviewing the news this weekend, Guardian columnist Owen Jones
0:01:18 > 0:01:19and Jane Moore from The Sun.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22But first the news with Christian Fraser.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25Good morning.
0:01:25 > 0:01:27The Russian Ambassador to the EU, Vladimir Chizhov,
0:01:27 > 0:01:29has suggested that the UK's own research laboratory in Wiltshire
0:01:29 > 0:01:32could be the source of the nerve agent used in the poisoning
0:01:32 > 0:01:34of a former Russian spy in Salisbury.
0:01:34 > 0:01:40Here's our Diplomatic Correspondent, James Robbins.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43Two weeks after the chemical attack on Sergei and Yulia Skripal,
0:01:43 > 0:01:45Ambassador Chizhov said there were no stockpiles whatsoever
0:01:45 > 0:01:48of nerve agents left in Russia.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52But then in an interview with Andrew Marr he went a bit further.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55Asked how the chemical weapon came to be used in Salisbury,
0:01:55 > 0:01:59Mr Chizhov suggested...
0:01:59 > 0:02:02When you have the nerve agent or whatever, you check it
0:02:02 > 0:02:08against certain samples that you retain in your laboratories.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12And Porton Down, as we now all know, is the largest military facility
0:02:12 > 0:02:15in the United Kingdom that has been dealing with chemical
0:02:15 > 0:02:18weapons research.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23And it's actually only eight miles from Salisbury.
0:02:23 > 0:02:28You're not suggesting Porton Down is responsible for this nerve agent?
0:02:28 > 0:02:30I don't know, I don't know, I don't have evidence
0:02:30 > 0:02:32of anything having been used.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35As Britain continues to investigate the chemical attack,
0:02:35 > 0:02:38the Foreign Office dismissed this latest Russian account
0:02:38 > 0:02:42as absolute nonsense with not an ounce of truth in it.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44A spokesperson said it's just another futile attempt
0:02:44 > 0:02:48by the Russian state to divert the story away from the facts that
0:02:48 > 0:02:51Russia has acted in flagrant breach of its international obligations.
0:02:51 > 0:02:58James Robbins, BBC News.
0:03:01 > 0:03:05And you can see the full interview with Tadini Chizhov later in this
0:03:05 > 0:03:06programme.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08The Foreign Secretary has described Russia's closure
0:03:08 > 0:03:10of the British Council and Consulate in St Petersburg as "futile".
0:03:10 > 0:03:13Writing in the Sun on Sunday, Boris Johnson says the move
0:03:13 > 0:03:15will punish ordinary Russians by depriving them of
0:03:15 > 0:03:16opportunities to learn English.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18The closures were part of Russia's retaliation
0:03:18 > 0:03:19to sanctions imposed by the UK.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21And voting in Russia's presidential election is taking
0:03:21 > 0:03:24place across the country, with Vladimir Putin set to secure
0:03:24 > 0:03:32a fourth term in ofifce.
0:03:33 > 0:03:34Mr Putin,
0:03:34 > 0:03:35who voted this morning in Moscow,
0:03:35 > 0:03:38has run the country as President or Prime Minister since 1999.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40Seven candidates are standing against him, but polls
0:03:40 > 0:03:43place his nearest rival on just 7 per cent of the vote.
0:03:43 > 0:03:44Results are expected this evening.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47Snow and ice are causing difficult conditions in parts of the UK
0:03:47 > 0:03:50after a new cold snap dubbed the "mini beast from the east".
0:03:50 > 0:03:51Parts of eastern England and Scotland
0:03:51 > 0:03:53have already had snow, with more expected in
0:03:53 > 0:03:55the Midlands and Wales.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57Amber warnings have been issued for north-west England,
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Yorkshire, the Midlands, London and south-east
0:04:00 > 0:04:03England from the afternoon.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07People are being advised to avoid travelling unless they have to.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10A group of MPs says the government should consider delaying the date
0:04:10 > 0:04:12for leaving the EU if complex issues remain unresolved.
0:04:12 > 0:04:15The Commons Exiting the EU Committee also suggests the transition period
0:04:15 > 0:04:17should be extended if no agreement is reached by October.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19However, eight pro-Brexit MPs on the committee refused
0:04:19 > 0:04:27to back the report.
0:04:28 > 0:04:29That's all from me.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32The next news on BBC One is at One o'clock.
0:04:32 > 0:04:33Back to you, Andrew.
0:04:33 > 0:04:38Thank you Christian.
0:04:39 > 0:04:44The front pages, one story dominating, the Mail on Sunday, the
0:04:44 > 0:04:48Prime Minister's war on Vladimir Hooton. And a similar story on the
0:04:48 > 0:04:53Sunday express. This is the Sunday Telegraph. What Will Puddy near
0:04:53 > 0:05:01Putin do? The Sunday Times has rather an alarming story. Will talk
0:05:01 > 0:05:08about that later. -- what will Vladimir Putin do? And this is the
0:05:08 > 0:05:11Observer. Focusing on Cambridge Analytica. Apparently harvesting
0:05:11 > 0:05:16data, preaching rules on Facebook and what we will do our best to
0:05:16 > 0:05:20explain that to you during the course of the review. At first, the
0:05:20 > 0:05:26Sunday Times. Jane.This is complex stuff, but what are cooler
0:05:26 > 0:05:31conversation I have been hearing all week has been about Russia cutting
0:05:31 > 0:05:34off our gas and here we have the Sunday Times blackout threat, saying
0:05:34 > 0:05:41the National Grid was put on alert last week by spy chiefs saying this
0:05:41 > 0:05:45may happen and we have to prepare for it. Which is alarming stuff in
0:05:45 > 0:05:51terms of this...And it shows the danger of the tit-for-tat
0:05:51 > 0:05:55escalation, we kick at 23, they kick out 23 and get rid of the British
0:05:55 > 0:06:02Council.Whether or not this happens again, in terms of if there is
0:06:02 > 0:06:06anything we learn from this ever evolving story is more money into
0:06:06 > 0:06:11defence, hopefully, but hopefully into energy policies so we are not
0:06:11 > 0:06:16over an oil barrel or whatever! Absolutely. This is not because we
0:06:16 > 0:06:20get lots and lots of gas from Russia but Kos Russian cyber attacks to
0:06:20 > 0:06:27close down big chunks of infrastructure. Owen Jones.A
0:06:27 > 0:06:30fascinating story about Russian oligarchs in London explaining about
0:06:30 > 0:06:35their business is remaining in Russia, not permanently residing in
0:06:35 > 0:06:38the UK, mansions and palaces on by offshore companies, hailing little
0:06:38 > 0:06:46in tax, very parasitical, not contributing to the economy. It is
0:06:46 > 0:06:52the observer, my sister paper, I apologise!Absolutely. Anyone who
0:06:52 > 0:06:55has bid on watching the Mafia understands the danger of dirty
0:06:55 > 0:07:02money washing to London but the question is what can be done.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05Absolutely, but the Conservatives have been doing is talking rhetoric
0:07:05 > 0:07:13which is light years away in substance but the
0:07:13 > 0:07:18substance but the so-called ten back to amendment. What Labour aren't
0:07:18 > 0:07:22suggesting is to have an oligarchy levy which would raise about £1
0:07:22 > 0:07:26billion every single year of which would target mansions bought by
0:07:26 > 0:07:30offshore trusts which are all over London. I think the point I am
0:07:30 > 0:07:34making, if we want an effect of response because these are oligarchs
0:07:34 > 0:07:38linked to a gangster receive in Russia, they looted the assets of
0:07:38 > 0:07:43that country, they need to get them where it hurts and it's not doing a
0:07:43 > 0:07:49theatrical kick out a diplomat here, very good for the Russian elections,
0:07:49 > 0:07:54shall we have a sweepstake on the elections? What would get the
0:07:54 > 0:07:58Russian regime is to go for the economic centres and I have a say,
0:07:58 > 0:08:02it's interesting you get these conspiracy theories about the Labour
0:08:02 > 0:08:05leadership linked to foreign powers, they are actually demanding far
0:08:05 > 0:08:09tougher action on Russia and its oligarchs by going for economic
0:08:09 > 0:08:14assets than the Tories are and they will be the Tories are awash with...
0:08:14 > 0:08:18Should we be going for economic assets based on the fact we are in
0:08:18 > 0:08:22this argument with Russia or should we be rolling it out for all dirty
0:08:22 > 0:08:26money? It's not just Russian sat at dirty money going through London.
0:08:26 > 0:08:31Both, it's the right thing to do, we should be pretty ashamed of our
0:08:31 > 0:08:37great capital city, at the epicentre so much money-laundering for many
0:08:37 > 0:08:39dubious regimes, these people are not living here because they like
0:08:39 > 0:08:43the weather or the West End, they come here because we have a regime
0:08:43 > 0:08:46that encourages that sort of money and the Tories I'm afraid are
0:08:46 > 0:08:52linked...It was happening under Tony Blair as well, a lot of dirty
0:08:52 > 0:08:56money.I don't think anyone could compare this Labour Party to that
0:08:56 > 0:09:02Labour Party.Let's move on, Boris Johnson on the show...He is written
0:09:02 > 0:09:06in the Sun on Sunday, unsurprisingly, he is paid tribute
0:09:06 > 0:09:11to the many Labour MPs who have condemned Vladimir Putin, he kicked
0:09:11 > 0:09:15out Jeremy Corbyn unsurprisingly as the only person who refuses to join
0:09:15 > 0:09:21the show of solidarity and have disappointed... Who is defending
0:09:21 > 0:09:25Jeremy Corbyn. I know, Peter Hitchens no less, coming out for
0:09:25 > 0:09:29Jeremy Corbyn and saying Jeremy Corbyn, the treatment by many
0:09:29 > 0:09:32politicians and those in the media is disgraceful because he's doing
0:09:32 > 0:09:38what he's paid to do, which is to lead the opposition. A powerfully
0:09:38 > 0:09:42written piece. He says he has a better record on foreign policy than
0:09:42 > 0:09:46almost anyone in Parliament.Which is true, on Libya, he was one of
0:09:46 > 0:09:52only 30 MPs that voted against it, anyone who spoke out was condemned
0:09:52 > 0:09:56as a Gaddafi stooge but I think the pointy mixes imported, look at
0:09:56 > 0:10:00Russia, what does the regime do phone talks about opposition,
0:10:00 > 0:10:03foreign links, foreign students, linked to international terrorists.
0:10:03 > 0:10:09They depend on a kind of paranoia. Increasingly what you have in this
0:10:09 > 0:10:14country, the enemies of the people splashed on the front pages of
0:10:14 > 0:10:18newspapers, crushed the saboteurs, the Leader of the Opposition smeared
0:10:18 > 0:10:22as a terrorist and the stooge of foreign regimes is to delegitimise
0:10:22 > 0:10:27the opposition in a way that the likes of Vladimir Putin doors.The
0:10:27 > 0:10:32likes of Vladimir Putin should them in the streets.The culture of
0:10:32 > 0:10:37treating your opponents as traitors is dangerous and all like-minded
0:10:37 > 0:10:43people...He points out that he does not like him sucking up to Sinn
0:10:43 > 0:10:48Fein.Ruth Davidson the Conservative has broken ranks are spawning and
0:10:48 > 0:10:53suggested I think the Sunday Telegraph that we should close down
0:10:53 > 0:11:00Russian today because it's a propaganda mouthpiece.I think it's
0:11:00 > 0:11:04obviously a propaganda station, closing it down would be a PR gift I
0:11:04 > 0:11:08think for the Russian regime, they are clamping down on our press.If
0:11:08 > 0:11:13we know it's a propaganda station that sort of actually takes away its
0:11:13 > 0:11:17power.Exactly. I think the real question is to put to the Tories if
0:11:17 > 0:11:21they want to take action is will you stop taking Russian link money,
0:11:21 > 0:11:27another question, Theresa May kibosh to an inquiry into the poisoning of
0:11:27 > 0:11:30Alexander opinion good many years ago because she said at a upset
0:11:30 > 0:11:35diplomatic relations with Russia, why?Marine A lit Binion go his
0:11:35 > 0:11:40widow was on the show last week, very, very upset, to care a long
0:11:40 > 0:11:45time to get the public inquiry and she thought the statement was not
0:11:45 > 0:11:56tough enough.You would think maybe, you probably too many James Bond
0:11:56 > 0:11:58movies but the upside of being a spy is that you drive around in an Aston
0:11:58 > 0:12:03Martin and live in a large house with the spoils of your work but we
0:12:03 > 0:12:09know from what we read that a lot of these guys live in relative
0:12:09 > 0:12:15anonymity in a terraced house and there is this guy, a Russian
0:12:15 > 0:12:20defector, saying he lives in fear of his life, a KGB defector, halls in
0:12:20 > 0:12:24his shoes, living in complete poverty, and the reporter David
0:12:24 > 0:12:29Collins says he's been abandoned by Britain. And you do wonder, that
0:12:29 > 0:12:34sort of part of the problem, isn't it? These guys are abominable to
0:12:34 > 0:12:37attack because we had just said, thanks very much for what you did,
0:12:37 > 0:12:41get on with your life with no security, money, nothing.You could
0:12:41 > 0:12:45argue from the point of view of Vladimir Putin he has everything he
0:12:45 > 0:12:49wants, a crisis ahead of the election to maximise turnout, at the
0:12:49 > 0:12:57same time he is sending the message he wants to send to all former KGB
0:12:57 > 0:13:01or FSB defectors, you will be killed.My fear of the diplomatic
0:13:01 > 0:13:06ratcheting, it does not cause any harm to the regime, it is good
0:13:06 > 0:13:10propaganda, that is why the economic assets or more powerful.Mexican or
0:13:10 > 0:13:16powerful in his own country.My friends, the time has come, to try
0:13:16 > 0:13:22and explain the Cambridge Analytica story.Over to you. This is quite
0:13:22 > 0:13:26interesting, the harvesting of data and doing detailed data profiling of
0:13:26 > 0:13:31voters and so on and it's been linked to what happened in terms of
0:13:31 > 0:13:34Donald Trump's victory and breaks it. My concern about that sometimes
0:13:34 > 0:13:40is it gets conspiratorially, I voted to campaign but we did not lose the
0:13:40 > 0:13:45referendum.It must have been a kind of dodgy...Exactly, but the real
0:13:45 > 0:13:49important thing is about data and its protection and I think we need
0:13:49 > 0:13:54very clear laws in this country and elsewhere that our data should be
0:13:54 > 0:13:57publicly owned, not be harvested by private companies and used in
0:13:57 > 0:14:08devious ways, I think.Let's salute Ben Parkinson.Ben Parkinson,
0:14:08 > 0:14:14catastrophically injured actually, this is the mark of modern warfare,
0:14:14 > 0:14:17actually, these guys are surviving whereas in the old days they would
0:14:17 > 0:14:25have died. And you would think it would be absolutely a tick box for
0:14:25 > 0:14:30this country to look after people like Ben Parkinson but he is having
0:14:30 > 0:14:34to sue the army or the MOD...There is a suggestion he will lose his
0:14:34 > 0:14:39wheelchair.He is not being given the right amount of support and
0:14:39 > 0:14:43financing to sustain his life as it is now. Charities like Help For
0:14:43 > 0:14:52Heroes would help him but actually, as a country, I love this government
0:14:52 > 0:14:56sends his brave people off to fight and you get examples of innovative
0:14:56 > 0:14:59being cut.I think we can all agree, it's awful. Thank you both very
0:14:59 > 0:15:02much.
0:15:02 > 0:15:03And so to the weather.
0:15:03 > 0:15:04Well, this is completely absurd.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07It's the middle of March, it feels like December
0:15:07 > 0:15:08and it's been snowing again.
0:15:08 > 0:15:10Something should be done - where's national leadership
0:15:10 > 0:15:11when you need it!
0:15:11 > 0:15:18With all the bad news, Helen Willetts in the weather studio.
0:15:19 > 0:15:24Just remember, please don't blame the messenger for this one.It is
0:15:24 > 0:15:27treacherous, we still have an amber warning from the Met office for the
0:15:27 > 0:15:37snow and ice. It is coming down thick and fast, the snow. You can
0:15:37 > 0:15:42see it here, this is all smoke, so showers across eastern areas. This
0:15:42 > 0:15:46is the band of snow making its way westwards so coming into the sunny
0:15:46 > 0:15:51parts of Cornwall and Devon in the next few hours. We have had reports
0:15:51 > 0:15:56of eight inches for smoke for parts of south-east Wales, 15 centimetres
0:15:56 > 0:16:01or more, we could see up to 20 and it's a slow-moving feature. Fewer
0:16:01 > 0:16:09showers this afternoon but they keep packing in in the north and east.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11The best sunshine in Northern Ireland and the west of Scotland but
0:16:11 > 0:16:16again it is bitterly cold. Adding on the strong and gale force wind,
0:16:16 > 0:16:21clearly the wind chill will make it feel even more bitter. Through this
0:16:21 > 0:16:25evening and overnight we have the issue with snow over southern and
0:16:25 > 0:16:31western areas. Horrendous conditions, but it should start to
0:16:31 > 0:16:37ease in the north. Very icy to start a Monday morning rush-hour but with
0:16:37 > 0:16:43high pressure starting to descend southwards it cuts off the easterly
0:16:43 > 0:16:47wind, cutting off the very cold air. Temperatures will recover a little
0:16:47 > 0:16:52tomorrow and it is more eyes then snow we are concerned with tomorrow.
0:16:52 > 0:16:53Some treacherous conditions for
0:16:53 > 0:16:55snow we are concerned with tomorrow. Some treacherous conditions for the
0:16:55 > 0:16:59rest of the day. I'm glad I decided to go for a nice
0:16:59 > 0:17:02walk in the country tomorrow.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05In the Commons this week, Jeremy Corbyn warned Theresa May not
0:17:05 > 0:17:07to rush to judgement over who was behind the Salisbury
0:17:07 > 0:17:08nerve agent attack.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11Much of the press, the Conservative party, and a fair chunk
0:17:11 > 0:17:14of his own backbenchers promptly rushed to jump all over him
0:17:14 > 0:17:15as a Russian appeaser.
0:17:15 > 0:17:16But is that fair?
0:17:16 > 0:17:19After all, he was on the unpopular side of the argument when it
0:17:19 > 0:17:22came to Iraq and Libya, and he feels he was proved right.
0:17:22 > 0:17:23Shami Chakrabarti, Shadow Attorney General and long
0:17:23 > 0:17:26time supporter of the Labour Leader is with me now.
0:17:26 > 0:17:28Good morning, can I start by asking clearly, do you think Vladimir
0:17:28 > 0:17:34Putin's government was responsible for what happened?What I think is
0:17:34 > 0:17:37what Theresa May said, which is there's a responsibility of the
0:17:37 > 0:17:41regime either in relation to having lost control of this chemical
0:17:41 > 0:17:46weaponry or it is even more serious and it is a malevolent directed
0:17:46 > 0:17:49attack and that's an important distinction going forward because
0:17:49 > 0:17:54you are not going to get cooperation from the state that is deliberately
0:17:54 > 0:17:58targeting you but you might get cooperation, even from a slightly
0:17:58 > 0:18:02embarrassed state that has lost control, of its stocks of chemical
0:18:02 > 0:18:06weapons. That's an important distinction and that the distinction
0:18:06 > 0:18:10Jeremy was making but also a distinction Theresa May has made
0:18:10 > 0:18:16herself.When Boris Johnson said his is overwhelmingly likely it is
0:18:16 > 0:18:20Vladimir Putin himself...If Boris Johnson is saying that, he must be
0:18:20 > 0:18:24saying it on the basis of new evidence that Mrs May has not yet
0:18:24 > 0:18:29spoken about.So at the moment as far as you're concerned, it is not
0:18:29 > 0:18:33absolutely clear this was directed by the Kremlin?That's my
0:18:33 > 0:18:40understanding, it is either a loss of control, which needs to be sorted
0:18:40 > 0:18:44out if that's the issue, or it is what the Foreign Secretary is
0:18:44 > 0:18:48suggesting but if he is suggesting that, that would be on the basis of
0:18:48 > 0:18:51new evidence that has not been shared with Jeremy Corbyn and it's
0:18:51 > 0:18:56not what Mrs May has said to date. Because a lot of the world seems to
0:18:56 > 0:19:02have taken the same view including France and Germany, that they think
0:19:02 > 0:19:09Putin was responsible for this.Have they really, said Putin was
0:19:09 > 0:19:15responsible directly?The Russian state.We need to be forensic about
0:19:15 > 0:19:18this, the Russian state is responsible for its stocks or
0:19:18 > 0:19:23historic stocks of chemical weapons. You are responsible whether you lose
0:19:23 > 0:19:32control or personally direct extrajudicial killings. But what
0:19:32 > 0:19:38kind of culpability is it, that's important.Absolutely so if you are
0:19:38 > 0:19:43not yet sure it was the Russian state doing this themselves, why are
0:19:43 > 0:19:51you supporting the expulsion of 23 diplomats?Because it is apropos --
0:19:51 > 0:20:00a proportionate response. I think Jeremy was right to support that
0:20:00 > 0:20:07proportion escalation but it will not be tit for tat. Diplomacy has an
0:20:07 > 0:20:10element of protocol and dancing within it, but the crucial thing is
0:20:10 > 0:20:16to go further now and that is John McDonnell's suite of economic
0:20:16 > 0:20:21measures. Also I think to pursue the chemical weapons Convention and
0:20:21 > 0:20:28potentially to ask for inspections, and if necessary further action at
0:20:28 > 0:20:32the international level.Let's look at the alternative theory which is
0:20:32 > 0:20:36that this material leaked out or was sold during the dissolution of the
0:20:36 > 0:20:41Soviet Union from some Russian facility and acquired by some Mafia
0:20:41 > 0:20:45gang of some kind, have you any evidence that happened at all?All
0:20:45 > 0:20:48we have is what we have been told and what my Privy Council colleagues
0:20:48 > 0:20:56have been told by the Government. What we have been told is what Mrs
0:20:56 > 0:21:01May has said, she's outlined the two possibilities, that is the directed
0:21:01 > 0:21:08attack from the Kremlin or the loss of control.Entirely supposition at
0:21:08 > 0:21:11this stage.We are just repeating what we have been told because of
0:21:11 > 0:21:14course we are not in Government but we are repeating what has been
0:21:14 > 0:21:21shared with us in security briefings and what Mrs May has said.We seem
0:21:21 > 0:21:28to be in a tit-for-tat process now, they have expelled 23 of our
0:21:28 > 0:21:32diplomats and we will respond to that, how concerned are you with
0:21:32 > 0:21:37where we are going in this crisis?I would personally caution against
0:21:37 > 0:21:43much more tit for tat in that way. I agree with Jane Moore, something she
0:21:43 > 0:21:49said earlier, which is isn't it important to go for economic
0:21:49 > 0:21:53measures that apply not just to Russians but to dirty money on
0:21:53 > 0:21:58non-taxpaying money regardless of the nationality of those involved.
0:21:58 > 0:22:02Quite a lot of your colleagues are not happy at least with the tone of
0:22:02 > 0:22:08what Jeremy Corbyn said. The defence spokesperson has said Russia was
0:22:08 > 0:22:12definitely responsible, Sir Keir Starmer has said there should be no
0:22:12 > 0:22:15ifs nor Bortz, Russia should be called out.And I agree with all of
0:22:15 > 0:22:24that, I repeat Russia is looking responsible whether it is negligent
0:22:24 > 0:22:27responsibility and not keeping control of these weapons or whether
0:22:27 > 0:22:39this is an extrajudicial attack but the distinguish between the two was
0:22:39 > 0:22:43important going forward.A lot of Labour MPs were concerned enough to
0:22:43 > 0:22:46put down motions, your colleague Chris Williamson has called them
0:22:46 > 0:22:50enemies and said they should be deselected. This culture war in the
0:22:50 > 0:22:55Labour Party is bubbling up, are you concerned this is the moment the
0:22:55 > 0:23:00crack cannot be bridged?No, and I'm here to make it clear I am
0:23:00 > 0:23:05completely not just with Jeremy but with near Griffith, Emily Formby and
0:23:05 > 0:23:14Keir Starmer. In order to be safe and to take control of these
0:23:14 > 0:23:19chemical weapons and to eliminate them from the world, you do need to
0:23:19 > 0:23:22make a distinction between negligence and taking back control
0:23:22 > 0:23:27and something that can be even more serious, which is directed tax
0:23:27 > 0:23:32against people on to a tree.Quite a lot of your colleagues look at
0:23:32 > 0:23:36Jeremy Corbyn's office and see what he said about Russia in the past,
0:23:36 > 0:23:42and they just don't feel he is speaking for them.I think people
0:23:42 > 0:23:47shouldn't be directing attacks on staff it is not fair to pick on
0:23:47 > 0:23:51people who cannot speak for themselves. Jeremy is the leader of
0:23:51 > 0:23:56our party but he also has a very strong team of Shadow Cabinet
0:23:56 > 0:24:00colleagues, some of whom you have cited, and we are all at one in the
0:24:00 > 0:24:04approach I have just outlined.When it comes to people like the
0:24:04 > 0:24:08father-in-law of the police officer who was poisoned in Salisbury who
0:24:08 > 0:24:12said he felt Jeremy Corbyn was mealy-mouthed when it came to
0:24:12 > 0:24:16Russia, what you say to people outside of the bubble looking in
0:24:16 > 0:24:21from the outside and just not quite sure about the tone?I think the
0:24:21 > 0:24:27tone is also spun, whether it is Jeremy Corbyn's tome, which has been
0:24:27 > 0:24:31robust but also appropriately measured, or whether it is the
0:24:31 > 0:24:34Defence Secretary who won minute talks about proportionality but the
0:24:34 > 0:24:38next minute says go away, this is a very febrile moment and people's
0:24:38 > 0:24:44words gets bombed by the media. That is understandable, I'm not going
0:24:44 > 0:24:48ballistic about that but obviously people are concerned, people are
0:24:48 > 0:24:53worried and that's why there's a responsibility on everyone to try to
0:24:53 > 0:24:59get our tone right.Do you trust our intelligence on this?I do.So
0:24:59 > 0:25:04there's no need to send Russians evidence of the nerve agent used? We
0:25:04 > 0:25:09can accept their word it was Novichok?Here is the thing about
0:25:09 > 0:25:13sending agents beyond this country, either to possibly the Russians if
0:25:13 > 0:25:21they are asking for it...Or the organisation.The reason for doing
0:25:21 > 0:25:25that is because it is the protocol of the Convention and I believe in
0:25:25 > 0:25:30pursuing these investigations under international law because that is
0:25:30 > 0:25:33how you garner the broadest international coalition to get
0:25:33 > 0:25:37support going forward.Do you think in the last couple of days there has
0:25:37 > 0:25:43been a McCarthyite atmosphere in this country?I don't want to make
0:25:43 > 0:25:46things worse, I want to make things better so I'm not going to escalate
0:25:46 > 0:25:51my language at this point if you will forgive me.Jeremy Corbyn
0:25:51 > 0:25:58suggested there was McCarthyism about and he has had a lot of abuse
0:25:58 > 0:26:02hurled at him for this.He's had a lot of abuse hurled at him for a
0:26:02 > 0:26:06very long time and I try to learn from his dignity under fire.There's
0:26:06 > 0:26:13reports today of a new group of Labour MPs called Start Again or
0:26:13 > 0:26:18something, who are very exercised about this shoe and others, are you
0:26:18 > 0:26:22concerned we are heading towards a position where the Labour Party
0:26:22 > 0:26:27might split?I'm not too concerned. People have always had their
0:26:27 > 0:26:30democratic prerogative to experiment with new parties and there's been
0:26:30 > 0:26:34talk in the Westminster bubble about this.It has gone on and on and
0:26:34 > 0:26:38never happened but at some point it might.In past decades that have
0:26:38 > 0:26:45been experiments in new party but the Labour Party is a very fine and
0:26:45 > 0:26:49broad coalition, and I actually think it represents the new
0:26:49 > 0:26:53moderation in British politics like taking on dirty money, like
0:26:53 > 0:26:57protecting people's jobs and services. I think I am a moderate
0:26:57 > 0:27:03and pretty much always have been. All right, thank you for talking to
0:27:03 > 0:27:04us.
0:27:04 > 0:27:07Coming up here a little later, the Sunday Politics with Sarah Smith.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10She will be discussing Russia with the Foreign Office Minister Sir
0:27:10 > 0:27:13Alan Duncan and she'll also be joined by Labour's Yvette Cooper,
0:27:13 > 0:27:14chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee.
0:27:14 > 0:27:17That's the Sunday Politics here on BBC One at 11 o'clock.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19So far, the Russian response to Theresa May's expulsion
0:27:19 > 0:27:21of Russian personnel has been relatively cautious
0:27:21 > 0:27:22and proportional.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24But it's come alongside a lot of brutal mockery of Britain
0:27:24 > 0:27:26from official Kremlin outlets.
0:27:26 > 0:27:29Senior Russian spokesmen have by and large kept off the airwaves
0:27:29 > 0:27:31but I was able to catch up with Mr Putin's Ambassador
0:27:31 > 0:27:33to the European Union, Vladimir Chizhov,
0:27:33 > 0:27:36in Brussels this week.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38Theresa May, the British Prime Minister, and other Nato allies have
0:27:38 > 0:27:42all said that Russia was responsible for the nerve attack in Salisbury.
0:27:42 > 0:27:43Were you?
0:27:43 > 0:27:48Highly likely, they said.
0:27:48 > 0:27:49Russia...
0:27:49 > 0:27:53and I can assure you without using the phraseology
0:27:53 > 0:27:55like highly likely,
0:27:55 > 0:27:57which has become very popular these days, Russia had
0:27:57 > 0:28:01nothing to do with it.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, has gone even further
0:28:03 > 0:28:05and he said it's very, very likely that Vladimir Putin
0:28:05 > 0:28:11himself ordered this attack.
0:28:11 > 0:28:13Well, that rests with the responsibility of Boris Johnson,
0:28:14 > 0:28:18who I believe is acting in an inappropriate manner,
0:28:18 > 0:28:22which doesn't give him credit.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27This was an attack on a man widely regarded in Russia as a traitor,
0:28:27 > 0:28:31using a chemical agent regarded as being made in Russia
0:28:31 > 0:28:34and that is why many people in Britain say it is overwhelmingly
0:28:34 > 0:28:36likely the Russians must be responsible.
0:28:36 > 0:28:40And if not the Russians, who?
0:28:40 > 0:28:45Well, this whole case is based on assumptions, based on suspicions
0:28:45 > 0:28:48fuelled by emotions.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52You rightly referred to Mr Skripal as a traitor,
0:28:52 > 0:28:58as a defector, but you know, I can assure you he is almost
0:28:58 > 0:29:00forgotten in Russia.
0:29:00 > 0:29:05He has been living in Britain for eight years now.
0:29:05 > 0:29:08Before that, I think I should stress the point,
0:29:08 > 0:29:13he was officially pardoned by a presidential decree, which means
0:29:13 > 0:29:21that whatever one can think of him in the moral sense,
0:29:22 > 0:29:25but from the legal point of view, the Russian state have
0:29:25 > 0:29:27nothing against him.
0:29:27 > 0:29:29And also I should add, his daughter, Yulia,
0:29:29 > 0:29:36is a Russian citizen.
0:29:36 > 0:29:41That's why, among the many violations by the British
0:29:41 > 0:29:46authorities in this case, I will cite that it's a blatant
0:29:46 > 0:29:51violation of the bilateral consular convention by not allowing Russian
0:29:51 > 0:29:56diplomats and consular officials access to a Russian citizen
0:29:56 > 0:30:04currently in hospital.
0:30:11 > 0:30:17And the Russian state has now announced a criminal investigation
0:30:17 > 0:30:26into the attack on Yulia Skripal and Mr Bush called.Certainly the
0:30:26 > 0:30:36Russian investigated committee will request co-operation from the
0:30:36 > 0:30:38British according to international law and bilateral agreements and the
0:30:38 > 0:30:45Russian side through the embassy in London requested access to evidence,
0:30:45 > 0:30:51if there is any, to the nerve agent from the very beginning, from the
0:30:51 > 0:30:58first day but was flatly refused. In spite of that being, the obligation
0:30:58 > 0:31:01on the British of the international convention on prohibition of
0:31:01 > 0:31:08chemical weapons.This is a very obscure nerve agent, not understood
0:31:08 > 0:31:13around the world, has Russia ever produced this agent Novichok? No.
0:31:13 > 0:31:20Never? No. Russia will and has stopped the production of any
0:31:20 > 0:31:25chemical agents back in 92, you cannot talk about chemical agents
0:31:25 > 0:31:30produced by Russia, all that had been produced previously was
0:31:30 > 0:31:34produced by the Soviet Union, in 1992, but then resident Boris
0:31:34 > 0:31:43Yeltsin signed a decree stopping all production and according to the
0:31:43 > 0:31:45International Convention on the Prohibition of chemical weapons last
0:31:45 > 0:31:51year in 2017 Russia destroyed all its stockpiles, there is only one
0:31:51 > 0:31:55country today which has not done so which is still retaining its
0:31:55 > 0:32:01chemical stockpiles and that is the United States of America.Can I be
0:32:01 > 0:32:05absolutely clear then, Russia has no stop violence of any nerve agent
0:32:05 > 0:32:10whatever?Indeed, no stop us whatsoever.Then there is the
0:32:10 > 0:32:15question how did this agent come to be used in Salisbury? It has been
0:32:15 > 0:32:18suggested for instant during the dissolution of the Soviet Union some
0:32:18 > 0:32:23of this agent he had been stolen or sold and ended up in the hands of
0:32:23 > 0:32:28criminal gangs or other state parties?What is your view? Well,
0:32:28 > 0:32:34why don't you ask yourself the question, how come the British
0:32:34 > 0:32:40authorities so quickly managed to designate the nerve agent used as
0:32:40 > 0:32:46something called Novichok. It can only mean that
0:32:47 > 0:32:50only mean that they had a standard...It has a signature, I
0:32:50 > 0:32:56think, a chemical signature.When you have a nerve agent or whatever,
0:32:56 > 0:32:58you check it against certain samples that you retaining your
0:32:58 > 0:33:05laboratories. And Porton Down as we now all know is the largest military
0:33:05 > 0:33:09facility in the United Kingdom that has been dealing with chemical
0:33:09 > 0:33:17weapons research. And it's actually only eight miles from Salisbury.
0:33:17 > 0:33:21You're not suggesting that Porton Down is responsible for this nerve
0:33:21 > 0:33:25agent?I don't know, I don't know, I don't have evidence of anything
0:33:25 > 0:33:34being used and of course, I should add, perhaps, that I exclude the
0:33:34 > 0:33:39possibility of any stockpiles of any chemical weapons fleeing Russia
0:33:39 > 0:33:45after the collapse of the Soviet Union. There was certain specialists
0:33:45 > 0:33:50including scientists who today claim to have been responsible for
0:33:50 > 0:33:57creating some nerve agent that have been whisked out of Russia... They
0:33:57 > 0:34:01defected.Currently residing in the United Kingdom. They defected, they
0:34:01 > 0:34:06said it was made and it was tested and used in Uzbekistan and therefore
0:34:06 > 0:34:10it was around and could have been stolen, sold on.I will not comment
0:34:10 > 0:34:18on their words but they were involved in certain research of
0:34:18 > 0:34:25various chemical weapons, yes. In the Soviet use.In her first
0:34:25 > 0:34:29response Theresa May has expelled 23 Russian citizens, were they spies?
0:34:29 > 0:34:33Of course not, they were diplomats. Or there any Russian spies in
0:34:33 > 0:34:41Britain?Come on! You are not asking the right person, perhaps. Art there
0:34:41 > 0:34:48any British spies in Russia?What are the other possibilities that
0:34:48 > 0:34:51Britain has talked about, the Magnitsky act to freeze the assets
0:34:51 > 0:34:55of various people who had been using London to wash money through London,
0:34:55 > 0:34:57individuals, in some respects I would imagine you would welcome
0:34:57 > 0:35:06that?I wouldn't care about the fate of money being laundered in London,
0:35:06 > 0:35:12of any other origin.What about the suggestion that members of the Royal
0:35:12 > 0:35:16family and politicians and so forth and come to Russia for the World
0:35:16 > 0:35:21Cup? The World Cup was going to be a very big moment for Russia, is this
0:35:21 > 0:35:25a blow to Russia?Well I'm sure those members of the Royal family
0:35:25 > 0:35:29who had been planning to come will be sorry hearing that from their own
0:35:29 > 0:35:35government.It's been a very difficult time, relations between
0:35:35 > 0:35:39Russia and Britain, a whole series of issues, alleged Russian
0:35:39 > 0:35:44involvement in elections in Europe, America, Britain as well, tensions
0:35:44 > 0:35:48over the Baltic states, Ukraine and so forth, looking ahead, what do you
0:35:48 > 0:35:54see for Britain's relations with Russia after we leave the EU?Well,
0:35:54 > 0:36:03at 1.I said to a British colleague of mine I was looking to a bright
0:36:03 > 0:36:08future with British Russian relations after Brexit cos Britain
0:36:08 > 0:36:14would no longer be confined by EU sanctions or anything like that.
0:36:14 > 0:36:22Somehow, he did not support that view.This period, there is almost
0:36:22 > 0:36:25universal anger about British Russian relationships in Britain at
0:36:25 > 0:36:31the moment.Gavin Williamson. And in Russia too.Gavin Williamson the new
0:36:31 > 0:36:34Defence Secretary said Russia will be thinking how can we cause so much
0:36:34 > 0:36:39pain in Britain, damage its economy, with its infrastructure apart, cause
0:36:39 > 0:36:42thousands and thousands of deaths and create total chaos within the
0:36:42 > 0:36:47UK? That is the perspective of a senior British Minister about your
0:36:47 > 0:36:51country.If I were a member correctly he also said the wording,
0:36:51 > 0:36:56Russia should shut up and go away, let me assure that Russia is not
0:36:56 > 0:37:00going to shut up and will certainly not go away.There has been a sort
0:37:00 > 0:37:05of sense in Britain that Russia was almost mocking us about this
0:37:05 > 0:37:13terrible attack. Some of your... Have talked about the climate being
0:37:13 > 0:37:19unhealthy parishioner defectors, falling out of holdings, defectors
0:37:19 > 0:37:24eating poison and so on, almost as if people in Moscow regard this as a
0:37:24 > 0:37:27family matter.It's not a funny matter and the latest news I heard
0:37:27 > 0:37:35from Moscow, the launch of two criminal investigations by the
0:37:35 > 0:37:39Russian investigative committee on damage to the health of the Russian
0:37:39 > 0:37:46citizen, Yulia Skripal and the unexplained, mysterious death of
0:37:46 > 0:37:54Nikolai Glushkov.To be clear, Russian investigators will come to
0:37:54 > 0:37:57British police shortly and said we want access to this investigation,
0:37:57 > 0:38:01to work alongside you phone it comes to what happened in Salisbury and we
0:38:01 > 0:38:05would like to see the nerve agent used and we would like to see proper
0:38:05 > 0:38:10access?Of course they will. First in correspondence and then perhaps
0:38:10 > 0:38:15should a personal visit be required they will come. And actually Russia
0:38:15 > 0:38:18has offered to call operate on the Salisbury incident from the very
0:38:18 > 0:38:23outset but we did not get any answer whatsoever from the Foreign Office
0:38:23 > 0:38:27or any other government agency.
0:38:27 > 0:38:32Listening to that is the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson.
0:38:32 > 0:38:36Welcome. We have to be very clear and colourful about the evidence in
0:38:36 > 0:38:38this very serious matter, you have said it is overwhelmingly likely
0:38:38 > 0:38:45that Vladimir Putin is responsible, the ambassador brush that aside, why
0:38:45 > 0:38:49do you say that?We gave the Russians a very clear choice on the
0:38:49 > 0:38:52Prime Minister said on Monday as I said to the Russian ambassador to
0:38:52 > 0:38:59the UK, either help us to understand how the stockpiles of Novichok have
0:38:59 > 0:39:02gone missing and how some of that could have turned up on the streets
0:39:02 > 0:39:07of Wiltshire in this way or else I'm afraid we will be forced as the
0:39:07 > 0:39:11prime ministers said in the House of Commons, to draw the conclusion as
0:39:11 > 0:39:16we did in the case of Alexander Litvinenko, that the Trail of
0:39:16 > 0:39:22culpability leads inexorably to the Kremlin and I think listening to the
0:39:22 > 0:39:27Russian response, listening again to the response of the Russian
0:39:27 > 0:39:32ambassador to be you with his satirical suggestion that this was
0:39:32 > 0:39:38done by UK agents from Porton Down, this is not the response of a
0:39:38 > 0:39:41country that really believes itself to be innocent, this is not the
0:39:41 > 0:39:45response of a country that wants to engage in getting to the bottom of
0:39:45 > 0:39:51that.The Prime Minister told the House of Commons the red two
0:39:51 > 0:39:53possible explanations either this was a deliberate attack by the
0:39:53 > 0:40:01Russian state or else the Novichok had come out and become, had got
0:40:01 > 0:40:06into the hands of criminal gangs, you seem to be excluding the latter?
0:40:06 > 0:40:10Well, we gave the Russians every opportunity to come up with an
0:40:10 > 0:40:13alternative hypothesis such as the one that you have just described and
0:40:13 > 0:40:19they haven't and their response has been a sort of mixture of smug
0:40:19 > 0:40:26sarcasm and denial, obfuscation and delay. So what we are doing, on the
0:40:26 > 0:40:33Novichok and the nerve agent, what we will do is tomorrow, technical
0:40:33 > 0:40:35experts from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons
0:40:35 > 0:40:40will come from the Hague to the UK, we will share the samples with them,
0:40:40 > 0:40:44they will then be tested by the most reputable possible international
0:40:44 > 0:40:53laboratories. And I might just say in response to the ointment from the
0:40:53 > 0:40:57Russian ambassador, about the Russian stockpiles of chemical
0:40:57 > 0:41:02weapons, we had evidence within the last ten years that Russia has not
0:41:02 > 0:41:07only been investigating the delivery of nerve agents for the purposes of
0:41:07 > 0:41:11assassination but it has also been creating and stop piling Novichok.
0:41:11 > 0:41:16That was a direct like that I was being given?You will get that and
0:41:16 > 0:41:21that is exactly the tactics that we have come to expect from Russia over
0:41:21 > 0:41:26the last few years. One of the things that has really struck me in
0:41:26 > 0:41:30the course of the last few days as we've been talking to friends and
0:41:30 > 0:41:34colleagues around the world, is the difference between their reaction
0:41:34 > 0:41:41this time and their reaction to the death of Alexander Litvinenko. And
0:41:41 > 0:41:45then back in 2006, there was a much more hesitation, watch more people
0:41:45 > 0:41:49saying perhaps it could be rogue elements of the Russian state and so
0:41:49 > 0:41:54on and so forth. Now you have people such as Nikki Haley, the US
0:41:54 > 0:41:58ambassador to the UN, with her very powerful denunciation of Russia and
0:41:58 > 0:42:06my colleague on Friday in London pointing the finger squarely at
0:42:06 > 0:42:12Russia and I think what that indicates is the change in people's
0:42:12 > 0:42:15attitudes towards Russia because of the experience of the last ten
0:42:15 > 0:42:19years.A change in attitude, their attitude to us, they don't really
0:42:19 > 0:42:26care any more?I think it's obvious they do care and I think that is one
0:42:26 > 0:42:31of the reasons that the UK is as it were, in the Kremlin's Ross House
0:42:31 > 0:42:36because they look at what's ours and they think, this is the country that
0:42:36 > 0:42:41time and again has called Russia out, has stood up to Russia when it
0:42:41 > 0:42:44comes to Crimea, to what they'd been doing in Syria and just to get back
0:42:44 > 0:42:53to the point I was making just now about... Go on.You absolutely sure
0:42:53 > 0:42:57it's this mysterious thing called Novichok? We talk about it all the
0:42:57 > 0:43:04time, how are we sure?I obviously, to the best of our knowledge, this
0:43:04 > 0:43:09is a Russian-made nerve agent that falls within the category Novichok,
0:43:09 > 0:43:14made only by Russia and to give back to the point about the international
0:43:14 > 0:43:19reactions which is so fascinating, people have all now experienced
0:43:19 > 0:43:26whether it's in America, Germany, France, to say nothing of the Baltic
0:43:26 > 0:43:33countries, they have all experienced Russian meddling, malign, disrupt
0:43:33 > 0:43:36Russian behaviour over the last years, they can see a country going
0:43:36 > 0:43:40in the wrong direction and that is why they are so inclined now not to
0:43:40 > 0:43:44give Russia the benefit of the doubt and to stand shoulder to shoulder
0:43:44 > 0:43:53with the UK.Do you think given that background that our defence spending
0:43:53 > 0:43:56is enough, Tobias Ellwood says it's no longer enough, what happened to
0:43:56 > 0:44:01the dollar but the threat we now face from the east, we need to
0:44:01 > 0:44:04protect ourselves better as a country than we have been doing and
0:44:04 > 0:44:09we need to spend more?We are one of the biggest spenders on defence in
0:44:09 > 0:44:13Natal, as you know, we contribute about 20% to European defence
0:44:13 > 0:44:18spending already and it's quite right we should spend well on our
0:44:18 > 0:44:21defences and...The argument is we should be spending more than the
0:44:21 > 0:44:24target.We must make sure we are adequately and properly defended and
0:44:24 > 0:44:30that is the case that I make and other... And other ministers
0:44:30 > 0:44:36certainly have been making. When it comes to the defences of this
0:44:36 > 0:44:40country, we are also ensuring that we are protected against cyber
0:44:40 > 0:44:44attack and attacks on the critical national infrastructure and other
0:44:44 > 0:44:49such threats.We read today there has been increased worry about
0:44:49 > 0:44:52attacks on the infrastructure, electricity supply, nuclear power
0:44:52 > 0:44:55stations, water and so forth, is that something the government is
0:44:55 > 0:45:00worried about at the moment?As I say something obviously that is a
0:45:00 > 0:45:05threat that has changed over the last few years, cyber attacks are a
0:45:05 > 0:45:08relatively new development but we have the national cyber Security
0:45:08 > 0:45:15Centre, we have fantastic preparations against such threats.
0:45:17 > 0:45:22Do you think the death of Nikolai Glushkov is connected to this
0:45:22 > 0:45:27affair?I have no evidence of any connection.The ambassador also said
0:45:27 > 0:45:32the Russians are prosecuting the deaths of the daughter of Mr Skripal
0:45:32 > 0:45:41and Mr Glushkov because they are both Russian citizens, will they get
0:45:41 > 0:45:44cooperation?We have wanted co-operation from the Russians in
0:45:44 > 0:45:48this matter for some days and we have been greeted with a lot of
0:45:48 > 0:45:54sarcasm, and I think plainly an attitude of a country that is
0:45:54 > 0:45:57guilty. If we can genuinely be of assistance to the Russians in
0:45:57 > 0:46:02getting to the bottom of what has happened, we will do that. I doubt
0:46:02 > 0:46:08they are entirely serious.What if Russian investigators arrive in
0:46:08 > 0:46:13London and say we are interested in the attack on Yulia and the death of
0:46:13 > 0:46:17Mr Skripal, we would like access to the investigation we are conducting,
0:46:17 > 0:46:22they will be given that?We will do everything we can to assist in
0:46:22 > 0:46:27getting to the bottom of what has happened. Whether it is appropriate
0:46:27 > 0:46:31to have Russian investigators on UK soil engaged in trying to get to the
0:46:31 > 0:46:36bottom of this, I somewhat doubt, but what we will certainly do...
0:46:36 > 0:46:42Help as far as we can.We will ensure that, I'm afraid the
0:46:42 > 0:46:47ambassador was completely misleading about the UK's obligations under the
0:46:47 > 0:46:50organisation for the Prohibition of chemical weapons, we have followed
0:46:50 > 0:46:54those obligations to the letter and what we will be doing now is getting
0:46:54 > 0:46:58the samples and making sure they are available to technical experts to
0:46:58 > 0:47:04allow them to elucidate exactly what they are. I think you would agree,
0:47:04 > 0:47:10they are a rather more reliable and I think the British people have more
0:47:10 > 0:47:14confidence and they do than in any Russian investigation.Let's move on
0:47:14 > 0:47:19to what happens next. We kicked out 23 of their people we regard as
0:47:19 > 0:47:26spies, they kicked out 23 of hours, tit for tat, is that that?There is
0:47:26 > 0:47:31a normal symmetry in these diplomatic affairs and you would
0:47:31 > 0:47:35expect that.Is it going to go further than that symmetry is what
0:47:35 > 0:47:40I'm asking.We will discuss this week what further measures, if any,
0:47:40 > 0:47:46we may want to take what I would just stress this. The UK is already
0:47:46 > 0:47:52pursuing a number of measures, hardening our borders, of course
0:47:52 > 0:47:56pursuing the diplomatic expulsions, but we are also going to be using
0:47:56 > 0:48:02the tools that are available to us under existing statute to pursue
0:48:02 > 0:48:08those who may have corruptly obtained their wealth. We were going
0:48:08 > 0:48:12further with the Magnitsky clause in the sanctions Bill so all these
0:48:12 > 0:48:17things are moving forward.Two weeks ago the Labour Party put down
0:48:17 > 0:48:21Magnitsky act amendments and the Conservatives voted against them,
0:48:21 > 0:48:24why was that?There were deficiencies in the way the
0:48:24 > 0:48:26amendments were drafted which didn't make them suitable but we are
0:48:26 > 0:48:31working to get provisions that will allow those who have been
0:48:31 > 0:48:34responsible for gross violations of human rights to be prosecuted and
0:48:34 > 0:48:38not to be able to come to this country.To be clear, as a
0:48:38 > 0:48:42government you are going to go after named individuals who have in the
0:48:42 > 0:48:46past been able to wash their money through London, invest in housing
0:48:46 > 0:48:50and so forth, and grab their money? We live in a democracy under the
0:48:50 > 0:48:56rule of law, it's not open to me as a politician to direct the
0:48:56 > 0:48:59law-enforcement agencies to draft and such, that's what they do
0:48:59 > 0:49:04Russia. We have statute now since April last year under the criminal
0:49:04 > 0:49:14finance act to do this. We have said that where people have obtained
0:49:21 > 0:49:23wealth by corruption, and where we can see a link with the Kremlin,
0:49:23 > 0:49:25with Vladimir Putin, it may be possible to have unexplained wealth
0:49:25 > 0:49:28orders and other sanctions on those individuals, and that work is going
0:49:28 > 0:49:31on now. You would not expect me to reveal names.Labour says part of
0:49:31 > 0:49:35the Conservative hesitation on this is that you as a party have been
0:49:35 > 0:49:44taking far too much Russian money for far too long. There's the
0:49:44 > 0:49:46for far too long. There's the case of one person who peddle hundred and
0:49:46 > 0:49:53£60,000 to have a game of tennis with you. Did that game take place?
0:49:53 > 0:49:59Can I make a point about this whole...You are going to say good
0:49:59 > 0:50:03Russians and bad Russians, I know that. I was going to say back to you
0:50:03 > 0:50:07that this lady's husband was a minister of Vladimir Putin and given
0:50:07 > 0:50:12an award by Vladimir Putin so he was close to the regime, and you as a
0:50:12 > 0:50:18party were prepared to take £160,000 from her so she could have a game of
0:50:18 > 0:50:25tennis with Boris Johnson.If there is evidence of corruption in the way
0:50:25 > 0:50:28that gentleman obtained his wealth, then it is well within... It is
0:50:28 > 0:50:35possible to deprive him of his wealth, with an unexplained wealth
0:50:35 > 0:50:42order. That is a matter for the authorities, not for me, and it's
0:50:42 > 0:50:45important that because people are e-mailing me from Russia, who feel
0:50:45 > 0:50:55that Russians...I agree with that. Russians themselves are in no way
0:50:55 > 0:51:06the object of our wrath.Did the tennis game actually happen?It did.
0:51:06 > 0:51:10Do you know enough about the origins of that money? And she has now paid
0:51:10 > 0:51:16£30,000 to sit next to Gavin Williamson and have dinner with him,
0:51:16 > 0:51:21I happy about that?Unless evidence is produced against individual
0:51:21 > 0:51:28Russians, I don't think the entire nation should be...It is a
0:51:28 > 0:51:33difficult balance I absolutely agree with that but...There are many
0:51:33 > 0:51:37Russians who have gone to this country, made their lives here and
0:51:37 > 0:51:41contributed magnificently to our culture and society. They feel
0:51:41 > 0:51:51threatened...I understand that, but on the other hand, let me remind you
0:51:51 > 0:51:53what the widow of Alexander Litvinenko said, she said the
0:51:53 > 0:51:57Conservatives need to be selective who they are friends with. When you
0:51:57 > 0:52:00allow people with money to come to your country and make a business,
0:52:00 > 0:52:04you need to be sure what kind of money these people bring to your
0:52:04 > 0:52:09country. All I'm saying is it is very difficult to know the source of
0:52:09 > 0:52:14the money you take.That's why we have the national Crime Agency, we
0:52:14 > 0:52:18have the national economic crime unit. That's what they are there to
0:52:18 > 0:52:22do. They are there to get to the bottom of whether somebody's wealth
0:52:22 > 0:52:29has been obtained corruptly or not but it is important we do not allow
0:52:29 > 0:52:33my as of suspicion about all Russians in London and indeed all
0:52:33 > 0:52:39which Russians in London to be created. Some of them may have
0:52:39 > 0:52:45obtained their wealth by... And I have to say it is quite
0:52:45 > 0:52:54extraordinary at a time when you have two people lying gravely ill in
0:52:54 > 0:53:00hospital, in Salisbury, when a police officer is still not out of
0:53:00 > 0:53:03hospital, for the fire somehow to be turned on Conservative Party
0:53:03 > 0:53:07funding. To the best of my knowledge, all possible checks have
0:53:07 > 0:53:11been made and they will continue to be made.You will have seen the
0:53:11 > 0:53:15story this morning about Cambridge and this data collection company in
0:53:15 > 0:53:19trouble for harvesting information from Facebook and using it to target
0:53:19 > 0:53:23potential voters. They were involved in the Brexit referendum and
0:53:23 > 0:53:27American elections as well, they have been summoned back to the House
0:53:27 > 0:53:31of Commons, do you think there should be a proper investigation
0:53:31 > 0:53:35into this?I've got to be honest, it is not something I have focused on
0:53:35 > 0:53:44but again, the general point, if there is some crime, I'm sure the
0:53:44 > 0:53:48law will follow its course.The Brexit select committee has
0:53:48 > 0:53:51suggested we may have to delay the trigger of Article 50 because we are
0:53:51 > 0:53:56not ready, what is your response?I don't think that is true and we are
0:53:56 > 0:53:59making great progress in the negotiations and I hope we will get
0:53:59 > 0:54:05a good deal on implementation period in March. House of Commons voted
0:54:05 > 0:54:08overwhelmingly to trigger Article 50 and let's get on with it.Another
0:54:08 > 0:54:12report today says our border arrangements simply won't be ready
0:54:12 > 0:54:19in time, are you concerned the thing is going to slip?No, I think what
0:54:19 > 0:54:23most people in this country want, whether they voted to leave or
0:54:23 > 0:54:27remain, they want us to get on with it and do it.Why did you write a
0:54:27 > 0:54:34letter to the Prime Minister saying there might be a hard Irish border?
0:54:34 > 0:54:40What I said, I don't wish to...I have the quote here. It is wrong to
0:54:40 > 0:54:44see our task is maintaining no border. Even if the hard border is
0:54:44 > 0:54:50reintroduced we would expect 95% of goods to pass... So you used the
0:54:50 > 0:54:57phrase hard border twice because it's interesting...It's the policy
0:54:57 > 0:55:00of the Government not to have a hard border and that's what we will
0:55:00 > 0:55:07produce. The Prime Minister in her speech produced a number of
0:55:07 > 0:55:11solutions for the avoidance of a hard border and that's what I was
0:55:11 > 0:55:16advocating.You said you were going to publish the letter, when are you
0:55:16 > 0:55:22going to do that?We do not... It's up to the media organisations that
0:55:22 > 0:55:29leaked a part of it, if they choose to...You said you were going to.
0:55:29 > 0:55:33You have changed your mind.We do not as a matter of course respond to
0:55:33 > 0:55:37leaks by putting holding in the public domain but I can assure you
0:55:37 > 0:55:43the letter said the exact opposite of what you claimed it said.I have
0:55:43 > 0:55:46just read a bit of it, these are words and words mean things and so
0:55:46 > 0:55:53forth.As it happens they don't mean what you want them to mean.The
0:55:53 > 0:55:56Government's aim should be to stop this border from big coming
0:55:56 > 0:56:04significantly harder -- from becoming significantly harder.
0:56:04 > 0:56:09Publish it!What I was saying is clearly in line with what the
0:56:09 > 0:56:12Government as a whole has been saying for a long time which is
0:56:12 > 0:56:16there is no need to have a hard border. There are ways of avoiding
0:56:16 > 0:56:21it, as the Prime Minister said in her excellent Mansion House speech
0:56:21 > 0:56:28and I suggest you quote that and read that.OK, do you think Russia
0:56:28 > 0:56:33intervened in the Brexit referendum? I have no evidence of that.You said
0:56:33 > 0:56:38in the past you don't think they successfully intervened.I have no
0:56:38 > 0:56:42evidence they successfully intervened, no.On last Brexit
0:56:42 > 0:56:48related question, we haven't spoken for little while, as one of the
0:56:48 > 0:56:50great cheerleaders for Brexit, when you look at what's happening now and
0:56:50 > 0:56:54the fact the European Court will have some influence on us after we
0:56:54 > 0:57:00leave, that we will be paying money into some agencies and the timescale
0:57:00 > 0:57:06of this, are you completely cheerful it has turned out as you wanted?I
0:57:06 > 0:57:11do, I think the Mansion House speech was a great step forward and I think
0:57:11 > 0:57:17it shows exactly the type of deal we want to get. We are not going to
0:57:17 > 0:57:22have the influence of the European Court of Justice. I don't know why
0:57:22 > 0:57:26you are saying this BBC claptrap. We are not going to be paying in after
0:57:26 > 0:57:33we leave. Yes, there will be on implementation period but after we
0:57:33 > 0:57:37come out we will have what is effectively a gigantic free-trade
0:57:37 > 0:57:45deal with all sorts of bolt ons and the advantage of the new
0:57:45 > 0:57:48arrangements, as the Prime Minister said at Mansion House, is that it
0:57:48 > 0:57:53will be possible for either side to do things in their own way and there
0:57:53 > 0:57:58will be an independent arbitration panel that will be able to decide...
0:57:58 > 0:58:04Can I finish the point. There will be an independent arbitration panel
0:58:04 > 0:58:12that will be able to decide whether or not there is a distortion of
0:58:12 > 0:58:19trade. On money, borders and laws, you are seeing the fulfilment of the
0:58:19 > 0:58:23pledged to take back control.We have run out of time. Boris Johnson
0:58:23 > 0:58:25for now, thank you.
0:58:25 > 0:58:29Now a look at what's coming up straight after this programme.
0:58:29 > 0:58:35In Brighton at ten o'clock, we are asking whether the people should
0:58:35 > 0:58:41have the final say on the terms of the Brexit deal. As the case of baby
0:58:41 > 0:58:45Alfie Evans is referred to the Supreme Court, should doctors have
0:58:45 > 0:58:47the final decision?
0:58:47 > 0:58:49We're out of time, thanks to all my guests.
0:58:49 > 0:58:53Harold Wilson used to say that a week was a long time in politics -
0:58:53 > 0:58:55it feels like a lifetime just now.
0:58:55 > 0:58:57I have no idea what we'll have for you next week.
0:58:57 > 0:59:00See you then.