:00:00. > 3:59:59Now on BBC News, let's cross live to Glasgow for Scotland Decides `
:00:00. > :00:14.Debate Review, with Gavin Elser. Welcome to historic Kelvingrove Art
:00:15. > :00:16.Gallery and Museum, the venue for what has been a very feisty
:00:17. > :00:19.head`to`head between First Minister Alex Salmond and leader of the
:00:20. > :00:30.Better Together campaign, Alistair Darling. A very feisty debate took
:00:31. > :00:40.place between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling. With me are
:00:41. > :00:48.Kevin, from the Observer. You were meaning yes recently. And
:00:49. > :00:53.broadcaster, Katy, who is a definite no. We go through the papers and get
:00:54. > :00:59.a flavour of what some of them are saying. The FT give some prominence
:01:00. > :01:05.to that debate and says that the clash between Alex Salmond and
:01:06. > :01:11.Alistair Darling was a feisty one. The Guardian has the same story on
:01:12. > :01:13.the front page. The accusation by Scotland's first minister that
:01:14. > :01:18.Alistair Darling sided with the Tories. That's the headline. It
:01:19. > :01:22.claims there was a somewhat bloody confrontation and we will pick up
:01:23. > :01:27.those things in a moment. The Daily Telegraph says that Alex Salmond was
:01:28. > :01:31.said to be gambling the future of Scottish children, because it was
:01:32. > :01:38.claimed he wouldn't be able to balance the books. The Mirror has
:01:39. > :01:40.the British nurse Will Pooley who caught it all in Sierra Leone and is
:01:41. > :01:44.now being treated in London. He is now being treated in London. He is
:01:45. > :01:49.convinced doctors will save his life. The Daily Mail warns that
:01:50. > :01:53.saviours will start `` savers will start putting their money under the
:01:54. > :01:57.mattress again if the taxman is successful in taking money from
:01:58. > :02:02.people's bank accounts. Moving on to the Express, which says David
:02:03. > :02:05.Cameron has promised to go on the defensive as part of his campaign to
:02:06. > :02:16.win power is back from Brussels, as he tries to create a new
:02:17. > :02:19.relationship with Europe. The Times says Mr Salmond staged a "remarkable
:02:20. > :02:22.comeback" in the second televised debate. Many commentators believe he
:02:23. > :02:25.lost out to Mr Darling in the first round. And the Scottish version of
:02:26. > :02:37.The Daily Telegraph also claims that Scotland's First Minister led a
:02:38. > :02:41.fight back. What did you make of the overall theme? The general view
:02:42. > :02:45.appears to be that, in terms of the debate at least, Alex Salmond on. I
:02:46. > :02:51.would say that in terms of the debate, Alex Salmond did win it. But
:02:52. > :03:01.when you look at the audience, the wide audience, what they were really
:03:02. > :03:08.pitching four was the undecided voter. But neither did much for the
:03:09. > :03:14.undecided voter because it was just two men shouting at each other. It
:03:15. > :03:24.was likely. Do you think it changed anyone's mines? Who knows? Only
:03:25. > :03:29.three weeks to go. `` minds? I think Alex Salmond would have referred to
:03:30. > :03:35.in the second debate, closer to the referendum. It was over 1.5 hours of
:03:36. > :03:38.debate. Things are going to get feisty. I'm not entirely sure they
:03:39. > :03:43.were much more feisty in the first debate. There was a degree of them
:03:44. > :03:53.talking over each other and of course we had that in previous
:03:54. > :03:58.debates. This is to be expected. The stakes are very high, it is
:03:59. > :04:01.emotional and impassioned. That's come across in the coverage of the
:04:02. > :04:09.papers that we are looking at. There were no breaks in this one. What we
:04:10. > :04:14.got was 1.5 hours of the debate, without any kind of let up. That
:04:15. > :04:21.perhaps made it seem more aggressive and more feisty and noisy. Let's
:04:22. > :04:26.have a look at the Scottish Telegraph. The headline says, sound
:04:27. > :04:31.and fury as Scotland fights buck. It also has, Kevin, there's still no
:04:32. > :04:37.answer to who will the bills. This strikes me. Going up Scotland,
:04:38. > :04:41.people say they want more information. There's been a lot of
:04:42. > :04:51.information out there but it seems some people still think we don't
:04:52. > :04:57.know whose sums add up. This is quite a regular choke of the
:04:58. > :05:08.Telegraph, being the flagship of the Unionist newspapers. They are going
:05:09. > :05:15.reheat that argument. I thought Alex Salmond did much better on
:05:16. > :05:20.currency, where he struggled the last time. I'm not sure he
:05:21. > :05:24.absolutely answered the question of plan B but he did come up with a
:05:25. > :05:27.better narrative. I thought it was quite skilful for him to put
:05:28. > :05:31.Alistair Darling on the back foot by saying that in the one point `` 1.5
:05:32. > :05:36.years of negotiations following a possible yes vote, will Alistair
:05:37. > :05:41.Darling be fighting to Scotland's best interests. Not just the first
:05:42. > :05:48.minister and yes campaign but various independent financial
:05:49. > :05:51.academics have said a currency union is the best for the UK. That's an
:05:52. > :05:57.interesting point and it was something picked up at least in time
:05:58. > :06:01.at one Alex Salmond said at the end that if it's a no vote I will accept
:06:02. > :06:05.it, if it's a yes vote it is keen Scotland and we would like great
:06:06. > :06:09.players of a team like Alistair Darling. I thought that was a rather
:06:10. > :06:16.further movement, to try to bring him onto his team. Alex Salmond is
:06:17. > :06:18.great with the lines, at Alistair Darling pointed out. He has very
:06:19. > :06:23.good lines but not that many answers. I thought that was but that
:06:24. > :06:27.was perhaps quite heartening and a very clever move by Alex Salmond.
:06:28. > :06:29.The yes campaign has been very clever. And this in a very clever
:06:30. > :06:39.move by Alex Salmond. The yes campaign has been very clever. Heavy
:06:40. > :06:44.are you yes, yet? They want to suggest we will all be together when
:06:45. > :06:50.it is done. But I do feel we didn't get many answers and, unlike Kevin,
:06:51. > :06:53.the currency thing is a big thing, perhaps there was too much made of
:06:54. > :06:56.it in this debate when there were other things we could not spoken
:06:57. > :06:59.about, but it is still true that if we have a currency union the Bank of
:07:00. > :07:03.England will set interest rates and restrict Scottish independence. This
:07:04. > :07:07.is something which Alex Salmond never addresses. He just talks about
:07:08. > :07:11.the currency as if it were just the pound in your pocket. I would have
:07:12. > :07:22.liked to see the first minister say that, yes, I do take some of Katy's
:07:23. > :07:25.points, but in Scotland there are almost 1 million people living below
:07:26. > :07:34.the poverty line. Including 250,000 children in Glasgow, this city. For
:07:35. > :07:39.these people, issues regarding the currency. Of. They will take any
:07:40. > :07:48.currency that allows them access to it. `` currency... They will take
:07:49. > :07:54.any. If they can get out, they could end up deciding the destination of
:07:55. > :08:00.this. That's an interesting point. Let's have a look at the Times'
:08:01. > :08:12.headline. It says that Alex Salmond strikes back. It was something Alex
:08:13. > :08:17.Salmond suggested was something that needed questioning. He said, how
:08:18. > :08:20.many people would be in poverty? That plays a chord with a lot of
:08:21. > :08:27.people in the middle who have not yet made up their minds. Alex
:08:28. > :08:30.Salmond really, as the Times says, he really picked up on this debate
:08:31. > :08:36.and he had thought very carefully about what the sorts of things work
:08:37. > :08:42.that would put Alistair Darling on the back foot. He couldn't answer
:08:43. > :08:46.how many people were in poverty, Mr Darling. Even though most
:08:47. > :08:54.journalists wouldn't have a clue. Yes... But when you are debating
:08:55. > :08:57.Alex Salmond... You know! I thought Alex Salmond came into this debate
:08:58. > :09:02.determined not to lose. How do you win? You can make one point bye
:09:03. > :09:09.asking a question you know your opponent will not know. `` by
:09:10. > :09:16.asking. The Guardian is in a similar area. This is a point that really
:09:17. > :09:21.does play into this narrative we are talking about. It is pretty hard in
:09:22. > :09:27.a country where, although there are many Conservative voters but few
:09:28. > :09:36.Conservative MPs in Westminster, they won. This could be a fatal
:09:37. > :09:41.tactical error by the Labour Party in Scotland and England. I believe
:09:42. > :09:45.that at the outset of this campaign, if the Labour Party had
:09:46. > :09:50.refused to share a platform with the Conservatives, knowing that
:09:51. > :09:54.emotionally it would have a negative impact on the Scottish electorate,
:09:55. > :10:07.if the Labour Party had decoupled itself from the Conservative side
:10:08. > :10:18.and said, we will guarantee this but here specifically the powers we will
:10:19. > :10:21.give to Holyrood. We are talking in terms of the last figure I saw,
:10:22. > :10:26.again I don't know how scientific these are, more than 30% of the
:10:27. > :10:30.Labour Party voters are going to vote yes. If that's true, most of
:10:31. > :10:36.those voters wouldn't be voting yes if their own party had not sided
:10:37. > :10:40.with the Conservatives and had said we will guarantee extra powers and
:10:41. > :10:45.here is what they are. I thought, Katy, this section, where constantly
:10:46. > :10:49.the first minister was seen to Alistair Darling, you are basically
:10:50. > :10:55.a Tory, you signed on to this, which of course Alistair Darling did we
:10:56. > :10:58.present, that was a very songs `` strong section for the first
:10:59. > :11:03.minister. I thought it was strong and unfair. I thought it was unfair
:11:04. > :11:08.and I thought what Alistair Darling did, which I felt unattractive
:11:09. > :11:14.will, was to go on and on. `` Alex Salmond did. He didn't let Alistair
:11:15. > :11:18.Darling reply. Perhaps to some that was effective but it wasn't me. One
:11:19. > :11:23.of the things that really puts me off his style of debating is that he
:11:24. > :11:28.doesn't even acknowledge that there is any risk, that things might be
:11:29. > :11:31.difficult in Scotland, that there might be difficult decisions to take
:11:32. > :11:37.about where money goes and where it is spent and that I don't find at
:11:38. > :11:40.all reassuring. I think that if Alex Salmond did say in independent
:11:41. > :11:46.Scotland things might be difficult for bit, then I think that maybe I
:11:47. > :11:53.There is a terrible mixup here There is a terrible mixup here
:11:54. > :11:56.always between party policy and the independence debate and we saw that
:11:57. > :12:01.in the white paper, where some of it was just SNP policy and other stuff
:12:02. > :12:05.was about independence. We saw that leaking into the debate, where
:12:06. > :12:08.Alistair Darling wasn't allowed by Alex Salmond to be at Labour Party
:12:09. > :12:13.politician. He was just in bed with everybody who was in the Better
:12:14. > :12:17.Together campaign. We also have a headline from the Scotsman. I have
:12:18. > :12:22.it here. It says, the heat turned up in seconds TV debate. The final
:12:23. > :12:25.debate sparked heated exchanges last night as the countdown to September
:12:26. > :12:33.the 18th intensified. There we have it. There's a picture of the two
:12:34. > :12:37.men. I was all this `` also struck that Alistair Darling constantly
:12:38. > :12:43.raised doubts, used the word risks are lot. The first minister had to
:12:44. > :12:45.talk more in terms of certainties. That presumably is because you were
:12:46. > :12:50.selling in a sense the unknown, selling what could be seen as a more
:12:51. > :12:55.exciting way forward because it will have more risks, but you have to be
:12:56. > :13:01.seen to be certain about it. I can see Alex Salmond's points, he does
:13:02. > :13:10.have two stage manage the events like this. But, on the other hand, I
:13:11. > :13:15.was disappointed with Alistair Darling because they feel that even
:13:16. > :13:22.if I do divide `` do decide to vote yes, I personally could come up with
:13:23. > :13:24.a dozen better reasons to stay in the union then I've heard from
:13:25. > :13:32.Alistair Darling over two debates. Go on! , with a couple. I like
:13:33. > :13:37.England and I like English people. I've worked in England, England is
:13:38. > :13:43.one of the best countries in the world. We have so much shared
:13:44. > :13:47.history, so much shared culture. Everywhere you look, as well as a
:13:48. > :13:51.shared language. We've been through a lot together through thick and
:13:52. > :13:54.thin but it's whether you think that some of the institutions of the
:13:55. > :13:58.union which have served both countries quite well over the last
:13:59. > :14:06.300 and odd years have now perhaps run their course. And whether you
:14:07. > :14:10.think Scotland now has got more confidence in the economy and much
:14:11. > :14:14.of that has been derived from a very successful running of the devolution
:14:15. > :14:22.project and also because roughly, since Margaret Thatcher's time,
:14:23. > :14:25.Scotland's voting parties have diverged from England. It is a more
:14:26. > :14:42.different country than it was before.
:14:43. > :14:48.Another lifeline may be thrown by independence, if it comes. Voting
:14:49. > :14:51.patterns will then change again. I agree with Kevin, I could have
:14:52. > :14:56.thought up the masses of reasons to stay in the union. They will have to
:14:57. > :15:01.be an immigration border, if immigration policy diverges from
:15:02. > :15:07.England's. England will become a competitor, not a partner. There are
:15:08. > :15:12.lots of reasons to remain in the union, not one of which, I quite
:15:13. > :15:18.agree with, was put into Alistair Darling's closing statement, because
:15:19. > :15:22.I think a good case can be made for the union, so it is a shame. You
:15:23. > :15:27.have been covering this for a long time. The final straight, three
:15:28. > :15:33.weeks ago. That is a normal British general election campaign, and we
:15:34. > :15:38.know things can change completely. We see what the polls say, not about
:15:39. > :15:46.who won tonight, but we see that they show yes is significantly
:15:47. > :15:51.behind. I think the Nationalists will point to 2011, when with four
:15:52. > :15:59.or five weeks to go the Labour Party in Scotland was 15 or 16 points
:16:00. > :16:02.ahead. At that point, the strategists were saying that their
:16:03. > :16:06.own internal polling was showing something much more optimistic, to
:16:07. > :16:10.the extent that even the first minister himself said he didn't feel
:16:11. > :16:16.he could trust his own internal polling. Until that night, when
:16:17. > :16:21.every single aspect of the Holyrood system was overthrown. Remember, the
:16:22. > :16:26.Holyrood system must established to prevent one party having an overall
:16:27. > :16:32.majority. That happened, despite the fact there were 15 points in it with
:16:33. > :16:38.three or four weeks ago. They have had a more strong and smooth
:16:39. > :16:42.electoral machine, and they seem to have something that the no campaign
:16:43. > :16:52.don't have, which is reaching the undecided people. They seem to have
:16:53. > :17:00.more information. They have been very organised in doing that, and
:17:01. > :17:05.have a very well`run system doing that. They have been well organised
:17:06. > :17:09.the yes campaigners are noisier, they are noisier because they have
:17:10. > :17:17.something to prove, somewhere to go. There will be a lot of silent Better
:17:18. > :17:22.Together voters who haven't yet said anything. When people go to the
:17:23. > :17:26.door, they think, we don't know, but I think in fact they will vote no,
:17:27. > :17:32.because it is quite difficult in Scotland at the moment to say you
:17:33. > :17:39.are going to vote no. It sounds very negative. I would say that last week
:17:40. > :17:50.will incredibly important. Just three weeks to go. I get my personal
:17:51. > :17:53.vote tomorrow. That's right, so some votes will be in by the end of the
:17:54. > :17:56.week. We will keep you up`to`date with all of the developments on the
:17:57. > :18:05.news channel, and on the BBC website.
:18:06. > :18:15.We will have 20 more coverage on the debate, here on BBC News, not just
:18:16. > :18:16.tonight but into tomorrow