:00:13. > :00:16.to what the papers will be bringing us tomorrow.
:00:17. > :00:20.With me are Tim Shipman, political editor of the Sunday Times,
:00:21. > :00:27.and Oliver Wright, political editor of the Independent.
:00:28. > :00:30.We can have a look at the front pages.
:00:31. > :00:34.The Observer leads with figures from the World Health Organisation
:00:35. > :00:38.The health body declares it a global public-health emergency,
:00:39. > :00:43.will overwhelm health services across the globe.
:00:44. > :00:47.The Sunday Express writes that millions of families can expect
:00:48. > :00:50.higher council-tax bills and bigger cuts to public services
:00:51. > :00:55.because of Conservatives' plans to reduce county council budgets.
:00:56. > :01:00.The Mail on Sunday headlines a poll which suggests
:01:01. > :01:03.the campaign for Britain to leave the EU is now six points ahead.
:01:04. > :01:05.It blames the Paris massacre, Cologne sex attacks
:01:06. > :01:10.and the Syrian crisis for the shift in opinion.
:01:11. > :01:13.The Telegraph unveils a new alliance of Conservative MPs
:01:14. > :01:17.that plans to push for Britain to stay within the EU.
:01:18. > :01:22.They warn against Britain leaping into the void.
:01:23. > :01:25.The Independent on Sunday has an exclusive interview
:01:26. > :01:29.with the head of Interpol who says criminal gangs
:01:30. > :01:32.made ?4 billion last year by smuggling refugees into Europe.
:01:33. > :01:34.And rhe Sunday Times leads with the terrorist attack
:01:35. > :01:43.in Burkina Faso in which 29 people were killed.
:01:44. > :01:51.Lots of other bits and pieces within those pages, let's kick off with the
:01:52. > :01:56.Sunday Telegraph, I think, lots of stuff about the European Union
:01:57. > :02:01.across the Sunday papers. Europe is everywhere we look! I have spent all
:02:02. > :02:05.week on the phone to Conservative MPs desperately trying to get them
:02:06. > :02:10.to talk about anything else, but no, it is Europe everywhere. This story
:02:11. > :02:14.that Nick Herbert, the former Police Minister, is leading a new group of
:02:15. > :02:19.Tories who wants to stay in the European Union. This makes a change,
:02:20. > :02:24.about eight groups want to leave, but David Cameron has a bit of a
:02:25. > :02:27.coup, Nick Herbert was an arch Eurosceptic who led a group that was
:02:28. > :02:33.the campaign group which kept Britain outside the euro. He worked
:02:34. > :02:37.alongside Dominic Cummings, the guy who was trying to get us out of the
:02:38. > :02:41.EU now, and he is taking the opposite view, setting up this
:02:42. > :02:46.group. A bit of good news for a change on Europe for the Prime
:02:47. > :02:49.Minister. New Tory alliance fights to stay in European Union, which
:02:50. > :02:53.emphasised we do not even know when the referendum is going to be. The
:02:54. > :02:58.funny thing about this if there is a difficulty with negotiating with 27
:02:59. > :03:03.other European countries is rather easier than negotiating with all the
:03:04. > :03:08.factions within his own Cabinet! I mean, Herbert is interesting, he was
:03:09. > :03:12.a minister at the start of the coalition government, he then rather
:03:13. > :03:16.fell out of favour, he was policing minister, he has been on the
:03:17. > :03:20.backbenches, and you wonder if this is a deal, after a successful
:03:21. > :03:25.renegotiation, he would come back as a minister. I am only speculating.
:03:26. > :03:31.No, it is really tricky for Cameron, how do units together bits of the
:03:32. > :03:35.party so that the splits do not appear too bitter, too personal, and
:03:36. > :03:40.come out of the referendum, whichever way it goes, without an
:03:41. > :03:45.utterly divided party? Lots of papers talking about this, do you
:03:46. > :03:49.think the nation as a whole is as interested in this as journalists
:03:50. > :03:53.and politicians? Journalists are not even that interested, we just have
:03:54. > :03:58.to find something to talk about! The short answer is no, I had a long
:03:59. > :04:01.lunch, as it were, with a member of the in campaign, and they have been
:04:02. > :04:10.doing a lot of focus groups, and he says nobody is paying any attention.
:04:11. > :04:12.A lot of people are vaguely aware that David Cameron promised a
:04:13. > :04:15.referendum, but not that he is undergoing the renegotiation, that
:04:16. > :04:18.it is due to come to a head in four weeks' time, and the idea that we
:04:19. > :04:23.might be deciding in June or July is passing by the vast majority of
:04:24. > :04:29.people in this country. People know it is terribly important but they do
:04:30. > :04:33.not care. Scotland utterly electrified everyone, and I do not
:04:34. > :04:37.think it is going to change, I may be completely wrong, but even when
:04:38. > :04:41.we get closer, I think there will be a fair amount of apathy. As oppose
:04:42. > :04:45.we need a date. We should know Brother Tedd Lee Seung Hoon,
:04:46. > :04:52.Jean-Claude Juncker was saying he's pretty confident about the deal in
:04:53. > :05:02.February. -- we should know a date pretty soon. So that is the
:05:03. > :05:05.shadow-boxing going on in the Cabinet, but the Mail on Sunday
:05:06. > :05:16.leads with a really interesting poll, EU shock, out of vote storms,
:05:17. > :05:24.and they have put this in a box, 6% air two, to emphasise just how
:05:25. > :05:29.important they think that is. -- 6% ahead. Two things, remember the
:05:30. > :05:33.election and the polls. It is a long way out and people are not thinking
:05:34. > :05:37.about it. There is probably some truth that things like the Cologne
:05:38. > :05:41.sex attacks, the more that comes into the migration crisis, the
:05:42. > :05:46.morbid plays into it. The history of all this is quite interesting. If
:05:47. > :05:54.you go back to 1973, look at the polls then, they showed the people
:05:55. > :05:57.who were anti-European were leading in the polls but the result went the
:05:58. > :06:02.other way. I think there will be quite a big change as time goes on,
:06:03. > :06:07.when people think, what would really happen if we leave? The figure that
:06:08. > :06:12.is missing is how many people do not know, are not of polls are showing a
:06:13. > :06:16.large number of them, and both people think it is the underside and
:06:17. > :06:21.are the key to this. There is about a third who are resolute to stay, a
:06:22. > :06:25.third that our resolute to leave, and the game is about winning the
:06:26. > :06:31.moderate people who do not much like the EU but are a bit frightened
:06:32. > :06:35.about leaving. One of the interesting things, both campaigns,
:06:36. > :06:39.the in campaign wants to play up Nigel Farage, because they think he
:06:40. > :06:42.is good for the underside ands, that they are more likely to be
:06:43. > :06:47.pro-European the more they see of him. The league campaign also think
:06:48. > :06:51.that, so they are trying to show this positive future outside the
:06:52. > :06:57.European Union union and not mention Farage too much, he is somehow the
:06:58. > :07:01.toxic element, even though he has significant support, it is the
:07:02. > :07:08.people who do not like which need to be persuaded. Let's have a look at
:07:09. > :07:14.the Sunday Times, eight Tim Shipman story, PM's secret EU master plan,
:07:15. > :07:17.you can tell us about it. It links the two, this says that if Boris
:07:18. > :07:22.Johnson were involved in the out campaign, the gap would be 8%, not
:07:23. > :07:26.six. He is seen as a pivotal figure, and part of what we are appealing
:07:27. > :07:31.today is the plan to get Boris to stick with Cameron and vote in. One
:07:32. > :07:42.of the rabbits from the hat that the Prime Minister plans to pull is to
:07:43. > :07:44.bring in some kind of change in domestic law, outside the
:07:45. > :07:47.renegotiation with the other countries, he wants to bring in some
:07:48. > :07:49.kind of domestic law that will say that Britain and Parliament has
:07:50. > :07:52.supremacy over European law, an idea that Boris floated a few months ago.
:07:53. > :07:55.It was widely dismissed at the time, but it is back on the table, and the
:07:56. > :08:00.cunning wheeze that the PM has come up with, Michael Gove is the other
:08:01. > :08:04.guy that he wants on site, and he has got Michael Gove, the Justice
:08:05. > :08:08.Secretary, to find out the best way of implementing what Boris wants. By
:08:09. > :08:15.doing that, you bring the two of them in, they will vote with
:08:16. > :08:17.Cameron, and the members of the Cabinet to vote to leave will be
:08:18. > :08:20.more marginal figures, like Chris Grayling and Iain Duncan Smith.
:08:21. > :08:24.Everybody knows they have taken that Eurosceptic position, but the
:08:25. > :08:30.waverers are being brought in with this plan. Two other elements just
:08:31. > :08:35.to bore you completely! Do not bore anyone, it is Saturday night! We are
:08:36. > :08:40.trying to enthrall people! The emergency brake that they were
:08:41. > :08:43.talking about on migrants is back in, Downing Street have been
:08:44. > :08:47.pretending it is not happening, but I am told by ministers that it is.
:08:48. > :08:57.They want to get everybody to sign up and say membership will be called
:08:58. > :08:59.something slightly different, associate membership or something
:09:00. > :09:01.like that. It looks like windowdressing, but they think it
:09:02. > :09:08.might persuade people. That is another Europe for one thing! Let's
:09:09. > :09:13.go to the front of the Sunday Times, Oliver, this is grim, Westerners
:09:14. > :09:18.targeted in hotel carnage, Burkina Faso, another horrible week. A
:09:19. > :09:21.really grim attack, there is possibly a danger in linking to many
:09:22. > :09:28.of these attacks and suggesting there is one over Raajih control to
:09:29. > :09:33.all of this. -- overarching. These are local groups often with local
:09:34. > :09:40.grievances beyond Islamic fundamentalism, but it shows the
:09:41. > :09:45.vulnerability of places, not just places one might think of as being
:09:46. > :09:52.insecure, but Paris, now across West Africa. Anyone who says we are safe
:09:53. > :09:56.in London, well, think about 7/7, it just shows the global vulnerability
:09:57. > :10:00.we have got when people are prepared to lose their own lives in an
:10:01. > :10:05.attack. One of the interesting things is that this attack is being
:10:06. > :10:10.seen as Al-Qaeda inspired, that group of Islamists. In recent times,
:10:11. > :10:13.we have been concentrating on what Isis have been doing, but there is
:10:14. > :10:16.this tension, the international bogeyman for years and years have
:10:17. > :10:21.been eclipsed by this other group in Syria and Iraq, and it is part of
:10:22. > :10:25.the internal tension. Even the war between Islamist groups for
:10:26. > :10:30.attention, to kill the most Western tourists, that sort of thing. And
:10:31. > :10:33.the other thing, this is a terrorist attack in central Africa where no
:10:34. > :10:38.British people have been hurt, and it is on the front page of a
:10:39. > :10:42.national newspaper. When I was growing up, Ouagadougou was a good
:10:43. > :10:48.quiz answer, what is the capital of the Lord, as it was then? This is
:10:49. > :10:56.something happening a long way away, but we feel it impacts on our world.
:10:57. > :11:00.-- Upper Volta. The other interesting thing is the French
:11:01. > :11:05.special forces coming in so quickly, that is not a spur of the moment
:11:06. > :11:09.thing, the fact that they got involved is very interesting. I want
:11:10. > :11:14.to talk about the Independent, Jeremy Corbyn is on the front,
:11:15. > :11:21.record profits for people smugglers, and then a very long and in-depth
:11:22. > :11:25.interview about Jeremy Corbyn in the Independent. There is a lot of very
:11:26. > :11:29.serious stuff in here, but I want to mention the fact that he has a cat
:11:30. > :11:34.which he has never named. It pains me to say it as someone who is
:11:35. > :11:38.interviewed Jeremy Corbyn, but this is the best interview with him that
:11:39. > :11:42.I have ever seen by some distance. There is one good Newsline, the
:11:43. > :11:46.Labour Party is tearing itself apart on Trident, he is integrating there
:11:47. > :11:54.will be a free vote in the Labour Party. That is good news. He is
:11:55. > :11:57.ruling out giving political Honours, that is a pretty good line. For
:11:58. > :12:00.serving politicians. But what everybody is going to focus on, and
:12:01. > :12:05.one can imagine the tabloids having fun with this tomorrow, he admits he
:12:06. > :12:14.has a black and white cat that he has never named, and he addresses it
:12:15. > :12:18.as El Gato, Spanish for cat. One can only imagine what his political
:12:19. > :12:32.opponents will do. I think that is fine! Being slightly suggestively
:12:33. > :12:36.foreign, including the mild racism of its critics, this is a bloke who
:12:37. > :12:43.addresses the cat he has never named in Spanish. El Gato, it sounds grand
:12:44. > :12:47.and majestic, it is fine, it is a name. It is a magnificent piece of
:12:48. > :12:51.journalism. We don't want to trivialise this, he talks about
:12:52. > :12:57.Trident, but when he calls the cat in, he does not call its name, but
:12:58. > :13:02.he whistles Tie A Yellow Ribbon Around The Old Oak Tree. And he
:13:03. > :13:10.whistles it because he cannot sing, he tells us! It makes the point that
:13:11. > :13:15.cuts recognise voices, not names. Lest we be accused of trivialising
:13:16. > :13:21.the Labour leader, it is a serious interview. Yes, Tim makes the point
:13:22. > :13:25.about honours, that is interesting, and he says that he will allow a
:13:26. > :13:32.free vote on Trident when it comes up in the Commons in the next few
:13:33. > :13:35.months ahead of the party having an official position. Particularly
:13:36. > :13:40.interesting, he suggests they may not go down a fully unilateral
:13:41. > :13:43.approach, ie we will get rid of existing submarines, we will not
:13:44. > :13:48.replace any of them. He suggests there might be a compromise of a
:13:49. > :13:51.small fleet or maybe just having the possibility of developing nuclear
:13:52. > :13:56.weapons in a shorter space of time if we needed to in the future. In
:13:57. > :14:00.most of his public statements, he has sounded quite reasonable, has
:14:01. > :14:03.wanted to be conciliatory, and the problem that Labour is having is
:14:04. > :14:07.that a lot of the people around him are the one with the hard-line views
:14:08. > :14:12.who are trying to force him into these positions. Again, an
:14:13. > :14:17.interesting retreat, we will see what Ken Livingstone says tomorrow,
:14:18. > :14:22.what John McDonnell says. Will they back a non-unilateralist policy on
:14:23. > :14:27.nuclear weapons? We will see. John McDonnell has been a force of
:14:28. > :14:32.moderation. The good news is that you can discuss that later, that is
:14:33. > :14:38.it for the moment, we will get you copies and you continue in another
:14:39. > :14:46.room. -- coffees. Tim and Oliver will be back at 11:34 another look
:14:47. > :14:49.through the papers. Coming up next, it is Reporters.