:00:09. > :00:17.Here's Gavin Esler with the papers. so it has changed a bit.
:00:18. > :00:20.Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.
:00:21. > :00:21.With me are Independent columnist, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown,
:00:22. > :00:23.and Peter Kellner, President of polling organisation
:00:24. > :00:27.The Sunday Express leads on the announcement that
:00:28. > :00:29.a new "supergroup" will be unveiled this week -
:00:30. > :00:33.uniting voices calling for Britain's exit from the EU.
:00:34. > :00:36.A key adviser to Margaret Thatcher - Lord Powell - believes the former
:00:37. > :00:39.Prime Minister would have supported David Cameron's Brussels deal.
:00:40. > :00:48.That's according to the Sunday Times.
:00:49. > :00:50.The Observer fears Government plans to restrict council homes
:00:51. > :00:52.for the very poorest will mean that tens-of-thousands of families
:00:53. > :00:56.The Sunday Telegraph leads on a letter it's received from more
:00:57. > :00:58.than 40 Conservative Party Associations, "angered" it says,
:00:59. > :01:01.by David Cameron's instruction to Tory MPs to ignore their views
:01:02. > :01:05.The Mail on Sunday claims that the Help for Heroes charity
:01:06. > :01:06.is being investigated by the charity commission.
:01:07. > :01:08.Finally, The Independent on Sunday dedicates its front page
:01:09. > :01:11.to the efforts being taken to tackle obesity, but criticises the policies
:01:12. > :01:22.of both the NHS and the Department of Health.
:01:23. > :01:31.Show respect Tories tell PM, the Sunday Telegraph warning David
:01:32. > :01:35.Cameron Diaz no divine right after the EU is not. It's an interesting
:01:36. > :01:38.story because it's one of those stories about the Westminster
:01:39. > :01:44.relate, and people who knock on doors within the country it also
:01:45. > :01:52.shows the cracks in the Tory party at every level. I think this
:01:53. > :01:56.genuine, heartfelt difference between those who want to leave and
:01:57. > :01:58.of staying. I've felt the fried of staying. I've felt the fried
:01:59. > :02:06.minister this time -- I felt for the minister this time -- I felt for the
:02:07. > :02:08.Prime Minister this time, because he has to defend whatever he brings
:02:09. > :02:10.back. There is a section of the party that will never accept the
:02:11. > :02:17.deal. If there is a vote that says deal. If there is a vote that says
:02:18. > :02:25.yes, which is what the opinion polls say yet, but they will not accept
:02:26. > :02:28.it. Yes. Within the Conservative Party, a great deal of activists
:02:29. > :02:35.feel strongly on this are really about Europe. I've spoken to David
:02:36. > :02:37.constituency, and the most constituency, and the most
:02:38. > :02:40.fascinating part of the evening was fascinating part of the evening was
:02:41. > :02:46.when I talked about Europe and you saw this upsurge of hatred of the
:02:47. > :02:52.European Union. So David Cameron has this problem in his own backyards.
:02:53. > :02:59.Whatever side you take on the issue, the Telegraph says there's a classic
:03:00. > :03:04.demonstration of the views of the famous old Tory on the 18th century,
:03:05. > :03:10.Edward Burke, that Tories should think for themselves, and MPs should
:03:11. > :03:18.be delegates at there own activists or voters, making it different from
:03:19. > :03:20.each other. Wherein a rip -- representative democracy and in this
:03:21. > :03:26.seat you've handed over your responsibility. Now with the days of
:03:27. > :03:33.Twitter and the idea that every single one of us should have our
:03:34. > :03:42.views taken to mean something, is -- it's becoming possible. When we've
:03:43. > :03:48.done polls we see voters thinking simultaneous. They want MPs to think
:03:49. > :03:55.themselves and also to do what local voters say. Can I ask you about the
:03:56. > :04:01.opinion polls on this issues, because we've seen 6% ahead, 9%
:04:02. > :04:06.ahead for no, do you think that's broadly right? Do you think that
:04:07. > :04:13.anybody apart from those actively involved in this has actually
:04:14. > :04:17.focused on it? I'm wondering... We've done the one poll since the
:04:18. > :04:22.announcement of the terms on Tuesday and this shows quite a sharp move
:04:23. > :04:29.from yes to know, with a 9-point lead, but the people saying they
:04:30. > :04:33.want to come out. This was in the middle of the most extraordinary
:04:34. > :04:38.media onslaught on David Cameron and I think we will see quite a lot of
:04:39. > :04:44.movement. I wouldn't like to predict the result. I think there's been a
:04:45. > :04:51.sharp movement away from the EU in the last week or so. Such madness. I
:04:52. > :04:56.remember having an argument on another channel, and the person was
:04:57. > :05:02.an incredibly intelligent Oxbridge person, who said we want to take
:05:03. > :05:08.control of our own laws. So give me an example of which laws, I said?
:05:09. > :05:12.Which is handed over to the EU. And this is the impression, but when you
:05:13. > :05:20.ask for examples and actual details then there are none. You might find
:05:21. > :05:25.your self in the same uncomfortable position as Mrs Thatcher! She would
:05:26. > :05:38.vote yes. Are we going to get more stories that Winston Churchill would
:05:39. > :05:44.have said yes? How would you know! ? In a sense, this is nonsense, but
:05:45. > :05:57.what it does do is make Lord Tebbit very angry. In the Sunday Times,
:05:58. > :06:03.Margaret Thatcher's closest adviser who sat at her side through those
:06:04. > :06:07.Brussels debates and arguments are negotiations, it doesn't mean he's
:06:08. > :06:16.absolutely right that it does mean that we should listen to what he'd
:06:17. > :06:22.say with some seriousness. Full. -- Thatcher was a pragmatist she sussed
:06:23. > :06:30.the situations, but what I do think, I'm actually very, very angry with
:06:31. > :06:36.the EU at the moment. The way they are treating the refugee crisis,
:06:37. > :06:39.asking Turkey to take more refugees but sitting tight and not doing
:06:40. > :06:47.anything. At the end of the day, somebody has got to see why it's a
:06:48. > :06:52.good thing to be in the EU, and nobody is doing that! The male has a
:06:53. > :07:00.slightly different take on this -- the Daily Mail. They think people
:07:01. > :07:08.should get off the fence and get out and lead people. I'm underwhelmed by
:07:09. > :07:12.the story. Pretty Patel is not a Cabinet minister. She is a middle
:07:13. > :07:17.ranking minister who was invited to sit at Cabinet meetings. Possibly,
:07:18. > :07:24.because it raises the proportion of women and ethnic and received people
:07:25. > :07:31.sitting round the Cabinet table. Argue saying we're no good? We're
:07:32. > :07:36.just been brought in here? I agree with you about pretty Patel, but I'm
:07:37. > :07:44.just reminding you! I'm not being specific! If this is the best the
:07:45. > :07:50.outers can do this weekend and there in trouble. We going to be pursuing
:07:51. > :08:00.the EU for a couple of months there. H six the Observer. EU chief spells
:08:01. > :08:15.problems with quitting. Curbs control over staff and that's a
:08:16. > :08:22.criticism. Let's look at this. Peter Cruddas is a serious player in the
:08:23. > :08:27.Brecht said it can. He's had to put out a statement as a company warning
:08:28. > :08:38.that Brecht sits might damage their own companies and their profits. One
:08:39. > :08:43.of their big donors is saying actually it might be a risk. The
:08:44. > :08:48.point is none of us can be certain what the economic consequences of a
:08:49. > :08:53.Brexit would be. I dating you can prove it would be a disaster, Aubrey
:08:54. > :09:06.that it would be beneficial. The point is, is there a risk in exit?
:09:07. > :09:12.-- Brexit. And Peter Bosz-mac I'm company is saying, actually there is
:09:13. > :09:17.a risk! This shows the it's more than an emotive issue than one back
:09:18. > :09:20.by evidence, because it there was some sober consideration, maybe
:09:21. > :09:26.those who would want to leap would reconsider. It's now become such a
:09:27. > :09:29.hot, emotional issue, to do with something visceral and something
:09:30. > :09:34.inside. Isn't it always going to be like that? We remember the Scottish
:09:35. > :09:40.independence campaign the facts were always in dispute. You're going to
:09:41. > :09:46.be ?1400 better off the year, or ?1000 better off this way. There's
:09:47. > :09:55.plenty boiling the North Sea etc. You're to remember -- you're far too
:09:56. > :10:04.young to remember the referendum in 1975. It made no difference. People
:10:05. > :10:11.basically base their views on the people they respected. They couldn't
:10:12. > :10:17.decide whether the wanted the same side as Tony Benn, Enoch Powell, Ian
:10:18. > :10:20.Paisley. You're getting this speech, what would bodies do? What will
:10:21. > :10:32.Michael Gove do? Bottle Theresa May do? -- what will Theresa May do?
:10:33. > :10:34.That turns things on its heads because you would normally decide
:10:35. > :10:41.the facts and then decide who you want to support, but you're saying
:10:42. > :10:45.you would choose who you like and then their facts? It's not even the
:10:46. > :10:50.person, although David Cameron brings out some pretty violent
:10:51. > :10:54.reactions within his own party, it's to do with this emotional, gut
:10:55. > :10:59.reaction. They have controlled us and we are going to be free.
:11:00. > :11:04.Actually nobody has talked enough about what Scotland will do next if
:11:05. > :11:09.this goes ahead and say we do late, most people in Scotland are
:11:10. > :11:14.pro-European, so will this give that energy to the SNP and a move towards
:11:15. > :11:19.independence? We had to look at the much bigger picture, this thing
:11:20. > :11:29.that's coming at us quite quickly, the referendum vote. Let's have a
:11:30. > :11:33.look at the Observer. Working families being forced out of council
:11:34. > :11:38.homes, front page of the Observer there. Tenants will be forced to pay
:11:39. > :11:44.market rents, it will hit 60,000 households. What you make of it?
:11:45. > :11:50.Let's look. Some people, not many, but some, are pretty well off and
:11:51. > :11:54.live in council homes on subsidised rent so not a lot of people will
:11:55. > :12:00.have sympathy. If you are fairly well of you shouldn't receive
:12:01. > :12:09.subsidies, so 40,000 or more in London, ?30,000 more outside London
:12:10. > :12:14.but what this analysis is saying is that there will be quite a lot of
:12:15. > :12:20.people who are just over the limits, so 31,000 out in Birmingham or
:12:21. > :12:23.Manchester who, given the current state of the private rental market
:12:24. > :12:31.and the rocketing rents would actually find themselves practically
:12:32. > :12:35.in pen Yury. It won't affect the people on low or high incomes but in
:12:36. > :12:40.the middle, there a fairly crucial group who could suffer from this
:12:41. > :12:43.change. These were the ones who are being courted, the hard-working
:12:44. > :12:49.strivers. They were being courted by the Conservative Party. The rents,
:12:50. > :12:56.London rents, Birmingham rents and certainly rents in our city have
:12:57. > :13:01.rocketed! I don't know how anybody on 30- ?40,000 could afford. If you
:13:02. > :13:06.have two children and you need a two bedroom house with the children
:13:07. > :13:11.sharing, you could not pay the rent. I don't know the details of this
:13:12. > :13:15.story, but it is fairly obvious, I don't know if you've done any
:13:16. > :13:23.polling on this, Peter, but it is now impossible for young people to
:13:24. > :13:27.afford the fairly modest stream of having a home of your own. It seems
:13:28. > :13:34.to have died or people in London, and not just in London. You are
:13:35. > :13:40.right because this move towards higher house prices, when I was
:13:41. > :13:43.growing up, it was normal for people of my generation with reasonable job
:13:44. > :13:48.is to buy their first time in their 20s. That is now the exception.
:13:49. > :13:54.People are renting and living with their parents until they are 30.
:13:55. > :13:58.There are a lot of countries with a healthier housing market you, you
:13:59. > :14:03.could argue, where people link -- rent for longer. But in order to
:14:04. > :14:07.have that you need lower rents, better homes, and you need to make
:14:08. > :14:11.it financially attractive proposition to rent. We don't have
:14:12. > :14:15.that. I don't have a lot of time for young people from middle classes,
:14:16. > :14:20.including my own children, who moan about this. I don't have time for
:14:21. > :14:22.that, because actually, the bigger crisis is for those families who
:14:23. > :14:31.haven't got any capital and never had to have -- have had, and who
:14:32. > :14:37.have worked hard. Those young people and these families, we should be
:14:38. > :14:42.focusing on them. If our kids can't afford to buy properties until their
:14:43. > :14:47.40, actually they will be OK. But, Yasmin, I agree with the sentiment,
:14:48. > :14:53.but the problem is if you try and tackle it as individual issues as
:14:54. > :14:56.the Government has tried to do with support for first-time buyers... The
:14:57. > :15:01.problem is we don't have enough homes. If we had a bigger supply of
:15:02. > :15:09.homes a lot of things would go away their own accord. That's the crisis!
:15:10. > :15:17.Bit, pics story of the week, humanitarian disasters loom in
:15:18. > :15:27.Aleppo as rebels are cut off. Aside and Russia are doing this -- Bashir
:15:28. > :15:33.Assad and Russia are doing this to their rain people. It started with
:15:34. > :15:38.15000 and the last I saw it was 30 5000. Now Turkey was saying it would
:15:39. > :15:45.accept them but isn't opening the gates. The EU is acting shockingly
:15:46. > :15:50.on this, including Britain. We think we campaign Turkey money to take our
:15:51. > :15:58.responsibility away from us. I don't what's going to these people. All
:15:59. > :16:03.credit to the Observer to putting it on the front page and 24 pages
:16:04. > :16:07.inside. This is responsible journalism. Most people don't really
:16:08. > :16:12.want to read about it but it's important, and the story it tells of
:16:13. > :16:17.the people in Aleppo are horrifying. The one thing I would pick out,
:16:18. > :16:23.where it says 100,000 people from Aleppo are likely to want to get
:16:24. > :16:27.into Turkey, and then it says that Turkey might not be able to open the
:16:28. > :16:32.doors. They then might pay sharks to take them across to Greece, see the
:16:33. > :16:37.initial latch -- reaction might be, thank goodness. But the second
:16:38. > :16:42.reaction will be, for heaven sake, if we don't do something for these
:16:43. > :16:48.people in region, we are storing up a massive trouble in the months and
:16:49. > :16:59.years ahead. We got 20 seconds left but we need to look at the last
:17:00. > :17:11.headline Crafty Fox... It's About Ranieri. 5000-1 To Win, For
:17:12. > :17:17.Leicester. I Hope It Was My Son Who Put That Bet On. Isn't It Wonderful,
:17:18. > :17:20.And I'm An Arsenal Fan, But Somebody Other Than Arsenal, Chelsea, The Two
:17:21. > :17:25.Manchester Jobs, Tottenham, Some Of The Club Is Up There Challenging?
:17:26. > :17:37.Doesn't It Make Football So Much More Exciting? Vardy Used To Read
:17:38. > :17:54.Roy of the Rovers. That's it for the papers. Thanks to our guests.
:17:55. > :18:00.And then to try and start unhappy night because there is some sunshine
:18:01. > :18:01.out there. There's also some showers