:00:19. > :00:24.Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what The Papers will be bringing
:00:25. > :00:28.us tomorrow. With me the author and journalist Rachel Shabi. Welcome.
:00:29. > :00:31.Tim Stanley, columnist with the Telegraph. Before we speak to them,
:00:32. > :00:35.let us look at what the front-pages are saying so you can get
:00:36. > :00:38.up-to-date. The European referendum dominates all of them. The Observer
:00:39. > :00:41.leads with a quote from David Cameron. The choice is in your
:00:42. > :00:46.hands. He says he believes Britain will be safer and stronger if it
:00:47. > :00:50.stays within the European Union. The independent on Sunday says Mr
:00:51. > :00:57.Cameron is playing on voters' fears by putting safety at the centre of
:00:58. > :01:02.the battle. The Express says the EU is stuck in the past. Mail on sauped
:01:03. > :01:07.says Michael Gove and Boris Johnson who himself has not declared which
:01:08. > :01:12.side of the campaign he will be on are engaged in a secret plot
:01:13. > :01:15.reporting on a pair before Mr Gove announced his intention to support
:01:16. > :01:18.the vote to leave campaign. Sunday time says the Prime Minister has
:01:19. > :01:23.declared war on the ministers who want the leave the EU. Accusing them
:01:24. > :01:27.of making misleading claims that Britain's borders can be sealed by
:01:28. > :01:33.exiting the block. Sunday Telegraph which using the same photograph of
:01:34. > :01:39.those leaving opponent reports on what it calls a cab nth net divided.
:01:40. > :01:46.Those are the principal front-pages. Let us look at them in more detail.
:01:47. > :01:50.Let us start, Tim, with the end on Sunday and that very striking image
:01:51. > :01:53.of Michael Gove and David Cameron. -- independent on Sunday. Do you
:01:54. > :01:57.think Michael Gove is going to be the leading light of this no
:01:58. > :02:01.campaign? Fact we are reporting he has said he will not be, he intends
:02:02. > :02:06.to take a back seat and let others do that, but because he is the first
:02:07. > :02:13.senior figure to let it be known he is going to come for leave, and
:02:14. > :02:17.because he wrote this stunning, very intellectually solid and convincing
:02:18. > :02:21.1500 word piece many of the newspapers are carrying about why he
:02:22. > :02:25.wants to leave. He has projected himself into the leadership of this
:02:26. > :02:28.campaign, if you look at the photo, I can't help but feel that Boris
:02:29. > :02:37.Johnson ought to be there in that photo. It ought to be Boris versus
:02:38. > :02:40.Cameron. I wonder if Boris will think think that too. Heal has
:02:41. > :02:47.allowed someone else to take leadership. Dithering or calculating
:02:48. > :02:52.do you think? Well, it is hard to tell whether he is calculating as in
:02:53. > :02:57.what is going to be most politically advantageous or whether he really is
:02:58. > :03:04.genuinely torn by this decision, but I do think it is great that the
:03:05. > :03:11.Conservative Party, having board us all to tears with this never ending
:03:12. > :03:16.debate on what Cameron can get out of the of Brussels and that
:03:17. > :03:18.negotiation and forcing us to have a very right-wing conversation in very
:03:19. > :03:22.right-wing terms about the referendum, I do think it is great
:03:23. > :03:27.they at least have the decency to give us the spectacle of them
:03:28. > :03:35.falling apart. And to have a very sort of games of thrones style, you
:03:36. > :03:38.know, plots by Boris. Here it is on the front of the Mail on Sunday.
:03:39. > :03:42.They gave us this referendum because the public wanted to. They gave us
:03:43. > :03:46.this referendum because they were terrified of Ukip. It was
:03:47. > :03:51.unnecessary. If Cameron had stood up to that, at that time, we wouldn't
:03:52. > :03:56.be in this situation, having to talk about this and being on every
:03:57. > :04:01.front-page. I never voted for the Tories having a referendum. The
:04:02. > :04:09.public voted for the referendum or Ukip. Are you curious that the
:04:10. > :04:14.Mail... Very pleased that this referendum is happen, very pleased
:04:15. > :04:19.that people Michael Gove and so on, people like Michael Gove and so
:04:20. > :04:24.on... You are the first person I have heard saying they are thrilled.
:04:25. > :04:28.We will come back to to it. Are you surprised the Mail on Sunday has
:04:29. > :04:32.taken the line, instead of celebrating the outers it seems to
:04:33. > :04:37.be suggesting there is a devious plot, complete with blurry
:04:38. > :04:42.photographs and late-night dinners and couriers turning up with
:04:43. > :04:47.mysterious packages. Michael Gove and Boris Johnson and by the use of
:04:48. > :04:54.this tell photo lens it looks like they are having an affair. It would
:04:55. > :04:57.be far more interesting. Aside from this being a debate about Europe,
:04:58. > :05:01.this is a debate about the Tory party. Even knows that Cameron will
:05:02. > :05:06.step down in a couple of years type. That is what he said he will do,
:05:07. > :05:10.people are calculating not only how should I campaign according to
:05:11. > :05:14.principle bus how should I campaign as to what would put me in a good
:05:15. > :05:18.position when he goes. Shadow Cabinet have to make a decision. Do
:05:19. > :05:23.I stand by loyally with my Prime Minister who can help me with job, a
:05:24. > :05:27.vans, who can ease me into replacing him, do I take a risk, put myself on
:05:28. > :05:32.the side of the party and present myself as a successor to Cameron who
:05:33. > :05:35.is Eurosceptic. You say David Cameron you think will be gone in a
:05:36. > :05:39.couple of years if the referendum goes against him, do you think... He
:05:40. > :05:42.will be gone overnight. Someone who has decided to stick the knife into
:05:43. > :05:46.his front rather this than his back is going to be the person who is
:05:47. > :05:51.going to do best out of that when he goes. That is one more reason, by
:05:52. > :05:55.the way why so many Cabinet Minister, even though many more are
:05:56. > :05:59.Eurosceptic, they have hung back because they know that by saying to
:06:00. > :06:02.Cameron I am going to campaign for Brexit they are saying I am
:06:03. > :06:07.campaigning to take away your job. It is very difficult to say that to
:06:08. > :06:10.a Prime Minister. We hear about how euro esceptic the Conservative Party
:06:11. > :06:14.is in terms of membership. It used to be said that loyalty was a
:06:15. > :06:19.Conservative Party secret card. Do you think that would be play against
:06:20. > :06:22.in terms of a vote by members who might be Eurosceptic but sense
:06:23. > :06:29.people are being disloyal to the outgoing leader. Yes. I think a lot
:06:30. > :06:33.of however much the party say this is an important decision and that I
:06:34. > :06:37.are passionate about it, essentially what is happening now, is that they
:06:38. > :06:45.are all plotting, in terms of what is best for their career. Look at
:06:46. > :06:49.side Javid. He says my heart say, my head say we are better off in. It is
:06:50. > :06:51.all just going to be political calculation, why we are on the
:06:52. > :06:58.subject and you know trivialise it but we have to find
:06:59. > :07:05.something interesting to say about it, why do they need a courier to
:07:06. > :07:11.deliver fresh shirts? This is the double inside page of the Mail. I am
:07:12. > :07:16.going to put it on the top. On the left-hand side, is a man turning up
:07:17. > :07:23.at the door and he, we are told delivering fresh shirts. They are at
:07:24. > :07:29.a dinner party. It is not like they are doing negotiations. Possibly
:07:30. > :07:35.Paul Burstow is a messy eater. Maybe that is it, his spaghetti hoops fall
:07:36. > :07:41.on his shirt. I always end up with food on a white shirt. The Sunday
:07:42. > :07:46.Times picks up on internal politics. David Cameron declares war on
:07:47. > :07:51.rebels. Will he extract revenge on those who dare to say I disagree. I
:07:52. > :07:54.don't know if he would. It would be a mistake to perpetuate a war. The
:07:55. > :08:02.point of this referendum is to shut things down to, have the vote,
:08:03. > :08:08.resolve it and move on. Let us have petty endless recriminations for
:08:09. > :08:15.years to come. The Telegraph carries the same photo. It is significant
:08:16. > :08:21.the six Cabinet Ministers decided to vote leave campaign rather than or
:08:22. > :08:24.the grass roots outcome pain, they are choosing the more Tory, big
:08:25. > :08:28.business campaign, and in the same way this is a battle over the future
:08:29. > :08:32.of the Tory party, believe it or not this referendum is a battle over the
:08:33. > :08:36.future of the British independence movement. Because there are those
:08:37. > :08:41.who want it to be a grass roots thing, those who want it to be a
:08:42. > :08:45.immigration thing, we won't be hearing about Tory infighting we
:08:46. > :08:51.will hear a lot about euro accept Tinne tick fighting. I can't decide
:08:52. > :08:55.which is worse. I talked to a senior figure from Vote Leave who was
:08:56. > :08:59.confident that campaign is going to get the official designation, so it
:09:00. > :09:06.will be the official leave campaign. If that happens will the others
:09:07. > :09:10.just, you know fall in line? Fair enough, you won, and we will join,
:09:11. > :09:15.because the bigger campaign is the fight to get Britain out. You would
:09:16. > :09:19.think that would be the case. I have heard rumours that if another
:09:20. > :09:23.organisation gets it they intend to sue, they intend to sue because the
:09:24. > :09:28.Electoral Commission is making a decision to back a group of people
:09:29. > :09:34.who as they see it are not the true artic lay fors of the Eurosceptic
:09:35. > :09:38.cause. They are not the people's front of Judea. You have to
:09:39. > :09:42.understand this is 20 years of campaign, who slept with who, who
:09:43. > :09:47.cut off who in the car park, who was rude to who ease wife, over 20 years
:09:48. > :09:51.of this kind of politics on the fringe, it has never been properly
:09:52. > :09:55.tested in an electoral environment, suddenly they thrown into the
:09:56. > :09:58.limelight and these are people who will lead the campaign for the
:09:59. > :10:02.future independence of Britain. These are the people you support.
:10:03. > :10:07.That is great. Is it is the people of Britain I support. You mention
:10:08. > :10:11.the people of Britain, let us talk about the public and the voter, They
:10:12. > :10:14.matter in all this. It is down to, it is down to the population, the
:10:15. > :10:18.adult population of this country, they have a vote. The Observer
:10:19. > :10:23.getting that the with this quote from the Prime Minister. Choices in
:10:24. > :10:26.your hands. He has his view but the choice is in your hands. How do you
:10:27. > :10:31.think we are going to engage with this? Are we going to engage? Is
:10:32. > :10:35.something going to happen, do you think it will enthuse us? This is
:10:36. > :10:41.the problem I have with the debate. It isn't a debate. It's a debate
:10:42. > :10:46.that is on the fringe of stuff that is completely irrelevant and
:10:47. > :10:51.unimportant. The fact that Cameron was negotiating over inwork benefits
:10:52. > :10:54.for eastern Europeans, which you know, is not what matters, to
:10:55. > :11:00.anybody, really. What I would like to see more of, is you know, if the
:11:01. > :11:04.remainors or what ever we are going to people who want to stay in, we
:11:05. > :11:09.are not seeing a progressive argument for staying in Europe. That
:11:10. > :11:13.is the bit that worries me. That is the bit that will engage people, if
:11:14. > :11:19.anything. This is an interesting point. It came up in an interview
:11:20. > :11:24.Jeremy Corbyn did earlier today. He said I will be campaigning for
:11:25. > :11:27.Britain to stay in but for a Britain that is focussed on different things
:11:28. > :11:29.than the things that the Prime Minister has been talking about. I
:11:30. > :11:35.mean are those sorts of subjects, I mean you may have a view on with
:11:36. > :11:40.where the Labour Party find itself in this debate. One would expect
:11:41. > :11:45.Labour to be playing a big part in that campaign, is it? If the Prime
:11:46. > :11:49.Minister has tried to get small fry reforms and failed, and conceded
:11:50. > :11:53.that failure, I can't believe... None of which happened, any way. I
:11:54. > :11:56.cannot believe that the Labour Party, if Jeremy Corbyn were ever to
:11:57. > :12:02.be Prime Minister, would be able to reform Europe to turn it into a
:12:03. > :12:06.democratic socialist state. So I don't see, but the very fact. That
:12:07. > :12:09.is not what he is say, so there are two things wrong with that sentence,
:12:10. > :12:14.one is that Cameron didn't get what he asked for which he did more or
:12:15. > :12:19.less and two is what Corbyn is saying about the EU. This is the
:12:20. > :12:25.fundamental thing, that might engage people, is that is guaranteeing
:12:26. > :12:29.things that matter to people, things like workers' right, parental leave,
:12:30. > :12:34.things like you know Working Time Directive and guaranteeing rights
:12:35. > :12:38.for part-time workers. Things that make a difference on a day-to-day
:12:39. > :12:43.basis of people's lives, are decided at EU level and are guaranteed,
:12:44. > :12:46.because of the EU. The people who support leave are saying it's the
:12:47. > :12:54.British people who should decide. This is a debate about sovereignty.
:12:55. > :12:57.It is is. I think we will be in... What kind of Democrat you you don't
:12:58. > :13:03.trust the British public to vote... I didn't say that. I said I don't
:13:04. > :13:07.trust the Conservative government. They will engage in a race to the
:13:08. > :13:12.bottom and take away those right, that is their thing. How many people
:13:13. > :13:17.voted for the Conservatives? So, in theory you, so you are saying that
:13:18. > :13:22.some ex entering authority to which we have surrendered sovereignty...
:13:23. > :13:28.We have not... Does something you don't agree with. That is an
:13:29. > :13:31.extraordinary. We have allowed them to enshrine basic human rights on a
:13:32. > :13:37.European wide level. That is a good thing. There has to be a body, if
:13:38. > :13:40.Government... It is called the courts, the House of Lords. The
:13:41. > :13:45.British Supreme Court. We have them. If they have failed the public which
:13:46. > :13:50.you claim to care about they need somewhere else to be able to go. Why
:13:51. > :13:53.would the British democratic system fail the public it is the public. It
:13:54. > :13:58.is what the people want. That is a beautiful sentiment. I am sure in
:13:59. > :14:02.text books that works fine, but in reality it doesn't, it hasn't. What
:14:03. > :14:08.about the Prime Minister's Questions front page. EU stuck in the past.
:14:09. > :14:15.Are you prepared to consode that I am not like... I am not here to say
:14:16. > :14:21.the EU is fab, I think it is a hugely problematic entity. It think
:14:22. > :14:24.it has been very undemocratic. I think it receives corporations more
:14:25. > :14:29.than individuals. But you trust it more than whoever the British people
:14:30. > :14:34.vote for. Don't load the argument. Don't provide me with a loaded
:14:35. > :14:38.sentence. What I am saying is it does guarantee basic things which
:14:39. > :14:44.are important to people, on a day-to-day basis. I don't know what
:14:45. > :14:48.this is that it guarantees. You don't think those Working Time
:14:49. > :14:53.Directives and paternity leave and maternity leave... This is stuff a
:14:54. > :14:57.British Parliament could introduce itself. Yet it hasn't. You should
:14:58. > :15:01.encourage the British people to vote for a government that does that. You
:15:02. > :15:08.have given us a dry-run of what is going to be four months of... How
:15:09. > :15:14.can you call this boar something It hasn't been boring for me. Let me,
:15:15. > :15:18.let us in passing, before we... If it is boaring you will win. That is
:15:19. > :15:23.how it will work. Let us in passing before we end this particular paper
:15:24. > :15:26.review, we will be back in an hour's time, maybe a nod to one story that
:15:27. > :15:33.came out today on the front of the Express. Yes, yes, Paul Daniels the
:15:34. > :15:38.family, his family have said he has an incurable brain tumour. It sad
:15:39. > :15:42.and very brave to let the public know in advance and talk about it.
:15:43. > :15:45.It is one of this dealing with death, dealing with a relative you
:15:46. > :15:48.know is going the die, in that terminal situation, it is very
:15:49. > :15:53.difficult because you have to make judgments about do we let people
:15:54. > :15:56.know or do we do it in secret? Sometimes the best thing to do is
:15:57. > :16:01.let people know so people can be there, know how to respond and they
:16:02. > :16:06.can help you if they can, so I think it is one of those teachable moments
:16:07. > :16:10.in British life. He is a very loved entertainer and he will be very
:16:11. > :16:14.missed. A bigger challenge when you are a public figure. Not just
:16:15. > :16:19.letting friends and relative, it is whether you let the world know. We
:16:20. > :16:25.saw different ways of dealing with this. David Bowie, who didn't let
:16:26. > :16:30.anybody know and let his music, work say goodbye, but I think you know,
:16:31. > :16:35.it is a personal decision, you know, whether you decide to go public or
:16:36. > :16:41.not and there is all sorts of reasons on either side you would or
:16:42. > :16:45.wouldn't. It is very brave of him. It gives us a chance to think of the
:16:46. > :16:49.pleasure he has brought over the years and show appreciation why he
:16:50. > :16:53.is still with us. You will be back in an hour with more, less than an
:16:54. > :16:57.hour, that is something to look forward to. Thank you for up
:16:58. > :17:03.company. Let us cross to John for a weather forecast.
:17:04. > :17:08.A lot of variety in the weather up and down the UK. Some cold for many
:17:09. > :17:09.mild, and for a good few of us rain round.