:00:00. > :00:19.That's all the sport, now The Papers.
:00:20. > :00:25.Welcome to the Sunday morning edition of the Papers. With me are
:00:26. > :00:27.Nigel Nelson and Vincent Moss. The Sunday Times reports that
:00:28. > :00:29.David Cameron is at threat of a leadership challenge
:00:30. > :00:32.even if Britain votes to stay The introduction in the House
:00:33. > :00:35.of Commons this week of the Government's Investigatory
:00:36. > :00:37.Powers Bill is the Independent The Observer has an interview
:00:38. > :00:42.with the Europe Minister David Lidington - who says Britain voting
:00:43. > :00:45.to leave the EU would spark a decade The Sunday Express leads
:00:46. > :00:49.with a survey suggesting 25 out of the 28 EU member states feel
:00:50. > :00:51."negatively" about the future And sticking with the EU debate,
:00:52. > :00:57.the Mail reports on divisions within the Conservative party -
:00:58. > :00:59.with reports of the Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond clashing
:01:00. > :01:13.with his Eurosceptic Let's begin. It is all Europe, all
:01:14. > :01:18.the time. We will find some other things to talk about. The Sunday
:01:19. > :01:24.Times, Tory threat to oust PM after the EU vote, win or lose, Cameron
:01:25. > :01:28.faces challenge? Well, I think he very definitely is out if he is
:01:29. > :01:32.losing the referendum. This is the kind of stuff we will hear a lot
:01:33. > :01:37.about over the next 100 days. I don't think it is very likely that
:01:38. > :01:42.Tory MPs would be in a mood, then, to get rid of Cameron after he has
:01:43. > :01:46.won the vote. It seems to me that it could not work. At these kind of
:01:47. > :01:51.scare stories, if you do this, we are going to get you, this kind of
:01:52. > :01:57.stuff, there will be a lot of this. Project Fear twice over? The story
:01:58. > :02:01.is based on an unnamed backbencher who says even if he wins, if he
:02:02. > :02:04.carries on like this, there will be no problem getting the 50 names
:02:05. > :02:09.required for a leadership challenge. Some Conservative MPs I speak to
:02:10. > :02:15.never liked him and would like to see the back of him. If there is a
:02:16. > :02:20.challenge with the Reid if he wins is unlikely, but David has already
:02:21. > :02:23.said he's going in 2020. If you have a new election that needs to be
:02:24. > :02:27.fought, many people would quite rightly say we want a new leader to
:02:28. > :02:31.set out his temper late. At some point between the European
:02:32. > :02:36.referendum on the 2020 election, it is likely, in my view, that he will
:02:37. > :02:40.go. They are really just arguing about the timing of when. Do any of
:02:41. > :02:47.you think this will be never-ending, even if they stay in? You have
:02:48. > :02:50.spoken to Conservative MPs saying it is not going to stop even if we
:02:51. > :02:55.lose, because we feel strongly about it, this is a core issue? The
:02:56. > :02:59.trouble with too many Tories is that it has become an obsession, almost
:03:00. > :03:11.an illness. So, whatever happens, they will agitate. I can see that
:03:12. > :03:16.going on. In or out, I think we have to abide by that. At the very least,
:03:17. > :03:19.you are talking about a generation. The last referendum was 1975, I
:03:20. > :03:26.would imagine a similar time to elapse before another one. In
:03:27. > :03:32.Scotland, they want one a year later? How is that going? The
:03:33. > :03:36.Telegraph have almost the reverse of that story, they can sack me, Iain
:03:37. > :03:39.Duncan Smith, but Europe goes over everything, we are bound to this
:03:40. > :03:47.ship sailing perilously close to the rocks. They voted to leave is a
:03:48. > :03:50.gamble, says the Prime Minister. The two sides and Eurosceptics fearing
:03:51. > :03:54.they might be purged? The interesting thing is Iain Duncan
:03:55. > :03:59.Smith's point, the real challenge, that he has a constitutional right
:04:00. > :04:02.to get hold of Cabinet papers as a secretary of state, which is true.
:04:03. > :04:12.This story particularly shows the absolute muddle about allowing
:04:13. > :04:17.Cabinet ministers to campaign as they wish. It was always going to be
:04:18. > :04:21.impossible. The civil service have to obey the government line. Iain
:04:22. > :04:26.Duncan Smith makes the point that he might need, as the day job, to get
:04:27. > :04:31.hold of figures on EU migration, who is getting benefits, are they going
:04:32. > :04:36.to deny him that? Sorry, the department says you can't have that
:04:37. > :04:40.because it impinges on the EU. Sir Humphrey, or Sir Jeremy, taking the
:04:41. > :04:43.view, as I understand, that the Government line, it goes to the
:04:44. > :04:50.government, but if he is opposing the government line on this, he does
:04:51. > :04:53.not get it? That is my point, who makes the decision? If the Secretary
:04:54. > :04:58.of State is calling for Cabinet papers, clearly, it was never going
:04:59. > :05:02.to work by saying Cabinet ministers can campaign against the Government.
:05:03. > :05:08.That was the mistake he made. Maybe the cartoon get it right, mods and
:05:09. > :05:14.rockers in Brighton, I hear gangs of Tory Eurosceptics and Europhiles are
:05:15. > :05:18.coming here for a fight? The point they are making is that top civil
:05:19. > :05:21.servant Jeremy Heywood is going to be summoned before a committee where
:05:22. > :05:25.he will have to explain this position where they might not be
:05:26. > :05:28.able to see papers they feel are relevant. The interesting thing
:05:29. > :05:32.about Iain Duncan Smith, they can sack me if my face no longer fits,
:05:33. > :05:36.that is the other issue after the referendum. With these five Cabinet
:05:37. > :05:40.ministers plus the employment minister, Priti Patel, what happens
:05:41. > :05:44.to them? Are they purged in what the Telegraph refers to as a revenge
:05:45. > :05:50.reshuffle? Or do you have what other people are calling for, a unity
:05:51. > :05:53.reshuffle and keep them in? You think whoever wins it would be
:05:54. > :05:58.unwise for the future of the Conservative Party to purge people
:05:59. > :06:01.you don't get on with straightaway? True, but I don't think the
:06:02. > :06:06.Conservative Party are worrying about who is in the Cabinet. If they
:06:07. > :06:10.felt so strongly about it, against an official government position,
:06:11. > :06:15.what you do is you quit. The Observer has a different take,
:06:16. > :06:20.Brexit would start decade of economic limbo, says top Tory. Boris
:06:21. > :06:29.Johnson in U-turn over second vote, he says they could get better terms
:06:30. > :06:33.if there was a second vote, now he's saying out is out? Almost
:06:34. > :06:36.self-evident. We are back to the confusion. The idea that you could
:06:37. > :06:43.actually vote out in a referendum to stay in Europe was just ludicrous.
:06:44. > :06:47.Clearly, Alt must mean out. You can't start playing around with the
:06:48. > :06:50.referendums and things like that. The interesting thing about the
:06:51. > :06:55.Observer story is that we have the Europe minister coming out on this
:06:56. > :07:02.one. The trouble is, we are not really dealing with core, basic
:07:03. > :07:07.issues, people want to know, how will it affect my job, wages,
:07:08. > :07:11.working conditions, schools, health. At the moment, the people arguing
:07:12. > :07:16.seemed to be arguing up there somewhere, without getting down to
:07:17. > :07:21.what ordinary families want to know. An interesting point. When you hear
:07:22. > :07:25.yesterday the G20 came out and said, we think it would be disastrous for
:07:26. > :07:29.the world economy, a shock, that is what the communique said, this
:07:30. > :07:33.involves China, the United States, the IMF, people Britain might ask to
:07:34. > :07:37.do certain things, but could not tell them this is their view, do you
:07:38. > :07:42.think voters care about what the G20 think or what the economists think?
:07:43. > :07:47.Not too much. The idea that other world leaders come out for somebody
:07:48. > :07:51.in their cosy club of 20 leaders is not a great surprise, neither is it
:07:52. > :07:54.a surprise that David Lidington, the Europe minister, comes out in favour
:07:55. > :07:59.of Europe! But he is making the point that it has become the mantra
:08:00. > :08:03.of the in campaign, it is all about job security, it would be really
:08:04. > :08:08.hard to negotiate trade deals, the truth is nobody ever knows. It is
:08:09. > :08:10.the control experiment. If you are not running contrasting scenarios,
:08:11. > :08:15.if we come out of Europe, will it get harder to get trade deals than
:08:16. > :08:21.when we were in, we will never know the answer. Europe turns against the
:08:22. > :08:29.EU, fresh boost for exit campaigns as strong anti-Brussels feelings in
:08:30. > :08:33.24 out of 25 countries. You could say there is a degree of
:08:34. > :08:37.Euroscepticism in Europe and Turner to Mr Cameron's Brundage, saying we
:08:38. > :08:44.are not alone, we can continue to reform Europe if we stay in? Also
:08:45. > :08:49.when you look at the figures, Greece is pretty upset about it. Greece is
:08:50. > :08:53.having a huge problem with refugees. Europe is trying to seal them off.
:08:54. > :08:57.You can understand that the ordinary people in Greece will be incredibly
:08:58. > :09:02.Euro sceptic about something like that. Migration becomes a major
:09:03. > :09:07.issue in many countries, people are worried about it. The scepticism is
:09:08. > :09:15.not to be unexpected. Shall we move on? Page seven, also, we have spoken
:09:16. > :09:22.about what has been an intra- Conservative fight, that is the has
:09:23. > :09:28.been presented. Sturgeon and Corbyn revive the spirit of the 1980s at
:09:29. > :09:30.the Trident protest. A lot of people protested yesterday. Again, this is
:09:31. > :09:36.something that has been going on for generations. Quite small, in
:09:37. > :09:40.comparison to 25 years ago? I think so. It was supposed to be the
:09:41. > :09:43.biggest march for a generation. The Observer have used an impressive
:09:44. > :09:47.picture of the march, where it looks like there are lots of people. At
:09:48. > :09:51.the aerial shots of Trafalgar Square, it looks like no more than
:09:52. > :09:55.5000 people. Some of those might have been bemused tourists that
:09:56. > :10:01.wandered in. It did look a very small scale event. I don't think it
:10:02. > :10:04.was particularly dramatic. If you would think the Labour leadership
:10:05. > :10:08.would want to be revelling in disarray at the Conservative Party
:10:09. > :10:10.over Europe, yet again, tearing itself apart, you would think they
:10:11. > :10:14.would want to focus on core issues like housing and employment.
:10:15. > :10:18.Instead, they are having an arcane argument, to the vast majority of
:10:19. > :10:25.the population, about whether or not a nuclear deterrent is needed at
:10:26. > :10:28.some time in the future. Nicola Sturgeon made that argument,
:10:29. > :10:33.yesterday, she said we were promised more austerity by the Chancellor,
:10:34. > :10:39.why are we spending... The figures might change, whatever it is, but
:10:40. > :10:42.she did try to connect the dots? She did. It was quite right Nicola
:10:43. > :10:47.Sturgeon should be there. Her party has actually got a position on
:10:48. > :10:52.Trident, to get rid of it. Jeremy Corbyn's party has not. I think he
:10:53. > :10:57.ought to accept he is Labour Leader now, not just simply a backbencher,
:10:58. > :11:02.perhaps it would have been wise not to turn up. He didn't say anything
:11:03. > :11:05.controversial, it was completely anodyne, but perhaps he should not
:11:06. > :11:11.have done it. The Sunday Times, charity 's chief clamps down on
:11:12. > :11:17.chuggers. Charities have got bad press recently for various things.
:11:18. > :11:21.They are saying, William Shawcross, from the Charities Commission, it
:11:22. > :11:25.cannot be right for vulnerable and older people to be hounded through
:11:26. > :11:29.the telephone, through the letterbox and on the street? Politicians will
:11:30. > :11:33.be delighted charities are taking some of the heat, to some extent. An
:11:34. > :11:38.important speech by the charity chief. It is not just chuggers, also
:11:39. > :11:41.the direct mail, the pressure calls. It has got to a point where many
:11:42. > :11:47.people cannot be stopped for legitimate reasons on the streets,
:11:48. > :11:50.not saying charities are illegitimate, you are very wary of
:11:51. > :11:53.stopping in the street because somebody is probably going to ask
:11:54. > :11:57.you not just for a few quid to put in a bucket, but to commit for
:11:58. > :12:03.months or years through direct debit to a charity. It has become a
:12:04. > :12:06.problem. I think charities are going to have to think about realigning
:12:07. > :12:12.the way they behave. You are not surprised? I am totally with
:12:13. > :12:18.Vincent. I object hugely to aggressive charity collecting. I
:12:19. > :12:21.think it is appalling that charities do commercial deals with companies
:12:22. > :12:25.to offer credit cards or energy tariffs and whatever, especially
:12:26. > :12:31.when they are not the best rate for people. All of these things should
:12:32. > :12:34.be banned. Charity giving should be absolutely voluntary. You should
:12:35. > :12:42.want to do it, not be cajoled into doing it. The Sunday Telegraph story
:12:43. > :12:45.was interesting. Shops row unites churches. It is unsurprising that
:12:46. > :12:52.churches want to keep Sunday and Sunday. But for some businesses,
:12:53. > :12:57.they say, what you do is you get on Amazon, do something online, get a
:12:58. > :13:01.delivery, we can't compete? Probably, the church is about 30
:13:02. > :13:04.years now out of date with the argument. This was the kind of
:13:05. > :13:09.battle we had when Sunday trading first came in. It was very much on
:13:10. > :13:14.these lines, keeping Sunday special, whether or not people would be
:13:15. > :13:18.forced to work on Sunday, we have moved on. Personally, nobody should
:13:19. > :13:24.be forced to work on a Sunday. However, that is the way things are.
:13:25. > :13:32.I think the church are whistling in the dark. We appear to be working on
:13:33. > :13:36.Sunday! But we volunteered. Even the shops themselves are split, they
:13:37. > :13:39.don't know if profits will go up. There is a slight effort of the
:13:40. > :13:43.government trying to look like it is doing something. The Europe story,
:13:44. > :13:47.going back to that, there is a legislative logjam. There is very
:13:48. > :13:51.little happening. You might say there is little happening most of
:13:52. > :13:55.the time in Parliament! Now, actually, I thought this was an
:13:56. > :13:59.interesting story in the Observer. Finding it hard to get a ticket for
:14:00. > :14:11.a Dell? There is one on sale for just ?24,000! We complain about
:14:12. > :14:16.football tickets? -- Adele. This is appalling, the idea it can be sold
:14:17. > :14:19.for above its cover price. There are people in Parliament, Sharon
:14:20. > :14:23.Hodgson, the Labour MP, chair of the all-party ticket group, she said
:14:24. > :14:29.there has to be legislation. Of course there has. It should be
:14:30. > :14:34.illegal to sell any ticket above the list price. What you discover with
:14:35. > :14:41.something that is within minutes all the tickets have gone. They have
:14:42. > :14:45.been taken by touts. Adele has campaigned against it, Elton John
:14:46. > :14:48.has. There is a general feeling from the industry and the public that it
:14:49. > :14:54.should be stopped. To be blunt about it, she doesn't get the ?24,000. She
:14:55. > :15:02.is not short of cash, but it goes to some... There might be an element of
:15:03. > :15:06.that, it is still a rip-off. If you can't go to a concert for a
:15:07. > :15:10.legitimate reason, you can put it on a website and sell it for pretty
:15:11. > :15:14.much cost price. That takes them out of the market, the touts. We are
:15:15. > :15:19.going to see more and more of this. The demand to see live music, live
:15:20. > :15:23.shows, it increases as people know you can get music online. Think it
:15:24. > :15:28.is going to be made illegal, there is enough agitation in Parliament to
:15:29. > :15:33.do something. It might be something like pulling the parties together?
:15:34. > :15:41.Yes, after Europe, that will be the argument! Thanks to Nigel and
:15:42. > :15:46.Vincent. We take a look at tomorrow's from pages every evening
:15:47. > :15:48.at 10:30pm and 11:30pm here on BBC News.