:00:00. > :00:00.will just be it. I have races that I am committed to for the rest of the
:00:00. > :00:00.year, then I will decide whether I go.
:00:00. > :00:20.Time for The Paper. -- The Papers. With me are Lisa Markwell,
:00:21. > :00:22.former editor of The Independent on Sunday, and Martin Bentham,
:00:23. > :00:24.the Home Affairs Editor of Hilary Benn's sacking fully
:00:25. > :00:31.emerged, and this morning's reports that up to half the shadow cabinet
:00:32. > :00:34.are expected to resign in a bid Heidi Alexander being the first
:00:35. > :00:39.to announce she's stepping down. The Observer reported
:00:40. > :00:44.that the Labour leader had been facing a coup by members
:00:45. > :00:46.of his shadow cabinet, led by the former Shadow
:00:47. > :00:49.Foreign Secretary. The Sunday Times says
:00:50. > :00:51.Hilary Benn had been consulting colleagues about telling
:00:52. > :00:55.Jeremy Corbyn his time was up. Elsewhere, "Tories at War"
:00:56. > :00:58.is the Sunday Telegraph's headline. The paper says bitter infighting has
:00:59. > :01:03.reached new heights "Tories Battle to Stop
:01:04. > :01:10.Boris" is the Mail The paper says a string of MPs
:01:11. > :01:15.are lining up in the race to succeed and the Sunday Express
:01:16. > :01:17.outlines what it The paper says a string of MPs
:01:18. > :01:20.are lining up in the race to succeed And the Sunday Express
:01:21. > :01:23.outlines what it says is a triple boost to the UK
:01:24. > :01:36.following the referendum. What the make of this? It was
:01:37. > :01:40.probably inevitable that it was going to happen quite quickly that
:01:41. > :01:44.the Labour Shadow Cabinet, people who disagree with Jeremy Corbyn, or
:01:45. > :01:49.feel that now is the time to mobilise, have to do something very
:01:50. > :01:55.quickly, because for a labourer, if they want to install a new leader,
:01:56. > :01:58.and if there is the possibility of a general election, they have to get a
:01:59. > :02:08.new leader in place quickly and the only way to do that is to push for a
:02:09. > :02:11.mass resignations, which it looks like we will get today. Hilary Benn
:02:12. > :02:14.was not resignation, but he was pushed out. It is all about timing.
:02:15. > :02:20.Somebody I noticed on Twitter was saying that one of Jeremy Corbyn's
:02:21. > :02:24.advisers last night must have done the sacking from the taxi on the way
:02:25. > :02:30.home from the party last night. It is all very uncharted waters, this
:02:31. > :02:35.sort of middle of the night. What you make of this? You could not make
:02:36. > :02:44.some of it up. In a way it has been about to happen for quite some time,
:02:45. > :02:47.just a matter of when. From the Parliamentary Labour Party
:02:48. > :02:55.to view, since the Mormon Jeremy Corbyn was elected. There has been
:02:56. > :03:03.talk for a long time, and obviously now because of the referendum result
:03:04. > :03:07.-- the moment Jeremy Corbyn was elected. Even if there is not a
:03:08. > :03:13.general election on the horizon, obviously there will be won in 2020
:03:14. > :03:15.at the very latest, they have to address that damage that has been
:03:16. > :03:21.caused to the core support which we saw some of the last election anyway
:03:22. > :03:25.and looks to be getting worse. They do not want to face in the north of
:03:26. > :03:30.the country -- the country what they faced in Scotland. As it happens on
:03:31. > :03:42.this occasion, he has fast forward at himself -- fast forward it down
:03:43. > :03:52.mac the situation himself by this late-night sacking.
:03:53. > :03:56.You could see how it could happen. It is only a year since the actual
:03:57. > :04:00.general election. With David Cameron stepping down there will be a
:04:01. > :04:05.groundswell of opinion which says, we need to be able to press the
:04:06. > :04:10.reset button across the board. I think it is fascinating that this
:04:11. > :04:17.massive, seismic events, which is leaving the EU, obviously people are
:04:18. > :04:20.talking about it, but we are talking so much more about the personalities
:04:21. > :04:27.rather than this enormous, once-in-a-lifetime event. It is so
:04:28. > :04:30.important who replaces Cameron, and so important who replaces Jeremy
:04:31. > :04:34.Corbyn, but we must not lose sight of what is really happening here,
:04:35. > :04:44.which is this decision which will reverberate through the next
:04:45. > :04:56.hundreds of years. David Cameron, Boris Johnson, article 50, all of
:04:57. > :05:08.that... Belieber debate is not entirely irrelevant, but somewhat
:05:09. > :05:14.irrelevant -- The Labour debate. The fact that people were googling, what
:05:15. > :05:19.is the EU? And saying that they would not leave if they had known
:05:20. > :05:24.what was going to happen. This is a time when the newspapers are very
:05:25. > :05:28.important. If the newspapers did not do a good enough job of that, which
:05:29. > :05:37.on the whole they did, it is a real struggle to see how people will make
:05:38. > :05:39.an informed opinion about who to vote foreign general election if
:05:40. > :05:41.they got their start mac if they said that they did not understand
:05:42. > :05:46.the issues around the EU. Sticking with Jeremy Corbyn just for a
:05:47. > :05:50.second, he may be hosted, but he could run again. The suggestion is
:05:51. > :05:55.that he will not quit, which could mean that he could be re-elected. As
:05:56. > :06:00.your political correspondent quite rightly summarised situation
:06:01. > :06:08.recently, the problem for the critics of Jeremy Corbyn is exactly
:06:09. > :06:13.that, that the party is supportive of Jeremy Corbyn but also his view
:06:14. > :06:17.of the world, that left of centre view, there is a big split between
:06:18. > :06:30.the grassroots of the party and the people who actually bolted. --
:06:31. > :06:42.voted. The problem is that someone like Jeremy Corbyn will win again.
:06:43. > :06:50.The gulf between the party and the politicians. Only something like 2.5
:06:51. > :06:55.people who voted Labour at the last general election... It is
:06:56. > :07:03.significant that he has grassroots support... That is entirely valid,
:07:04. > :07:08.but it is not the Labour Party, it is the Labour readership... This
:07:09. > :07:14.could have been foreseen at the time that he was elected. Some said that
:07:15. > :07:23.he was an electable. Many of his critics did say that. He still got
:07:24. > :07:30.voted in by the people in the party. We will come back to that. We might
:07:31. > :07:35.even go over and hear Hilary Benn if he appears on the Andrew Marr
:07:36. > :07:48.programme shortly. Tories at war. Minister claims that
:07:49. > :07:59.project fewer warnings -- project fewer warnings are being borne out
:08:00. > :08:05.-- gulf. The Sunday papers were only a week
:08:06. > :08:12.ago heralding the joy of leaving. Now they are panicking, who is going
:08:13. > :08:17.to run this thing? 24 hours ago, Boris Johnson was saying that David
:08:18. > :08:21.Cameron was this marvellous statesman. No friends of Boris
:08:22. > :08:38.Johnson are briefing against David Cameron -- now. It is all friends
:08:39. > :08:45.against friends, friends,' is. -- "friends".
:08:46. > :08:50.Tories battle to stop Boris Johnson. Five rivals it tend to battle for
:08:51. > :08:54.number ten. He is not loved by everybody within the Parliamentary
:08:55. > :09:01.Conservative Party. Inevitably that will lead to a definite contest for
:09:02. > :09:15.the leadership. I would have thought that it is him or to Reza may -- to
:09:16. > :09:23.Reza -- consumer. She is the till person. There are
:09:24. > :09:30.criticisms that Boris Johnson is good at the big picture, but she's
:09:31. > :09:40.very good at running a department. She's a formidable hard worker and
:09:41. > :09:44.is devoted. Do not assume that Boris Johnson is the darling of the
:09:45. > :09:48.Conservative Party activists, some people do not necessarily want a
:09:49. > :09:51.permanent right on the big Dipper. Some of his appeal is that he can
:09:52. > :09:56.reach out across and beyond the Tory divide. On the other hand, there is
:09:57. > :10:02.the danger that people do not like him because of his showmanship. He
:10:03. > :10:10.is a winner. He won the London mayor collection and he won, if you can
:10:11. > :10:19.call it that, the referendum. They might say, we might not like him but
:10:20. > :10:25.he is effective. The mail on Sunday, a picture of Boris Johnson playing
:10:26. > :10:31.cricket, it says, Boris Johnson plays cricket as George Osborne goes
:10:32. > :10:40.missing. We are is George Osborne? This is fascinating. We saw the
:10:41. > :10:44.poignant pictures yesterday of David Cameron and Samantha Cameron.
:10:45. > :10:48.Whatever the broader picture is, he has to be visible, he has to do
:10:49. > :10:54.something. Before the referendum, he said that we do not have a plan in
:10:55. > :10:57.place. Mark Carney said that he had been talking to the Chancellor for
:10:58. > :11:01.weeks. By your apps and you're really undermining any chance that
:11:02. > :11:08.you have left of continuing to be in front line politics. I do not think
:11:09. > :11:11.that he has much of a chance. Win or lose I think that he has antagonised
:11:12. > :11:16.an awful lot of people. Especially with his emergency budget, and a lot
:11:17. > :11:26.of Tories said that they would not vote for it. He was at the forefront
:11:27. > :11:32.of the Project Fear agenda. He does need to actually do his job. Let us
:11:33. > :11:36.hear from Hilary Benn on the Andrew Marr show.
:11:37. > :11:40.This has been a very difficult decision for me because I agreed to
:11:41. > :11:46.serve in Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet. I did not vote for him, but
:11:47. > :11:49.I thought we had a responsibility to support him, as I have supported
:11:50. > :11:52.every Labour Leader since I was elected as a member of Parliament.
:11:53. > :11:58.But it was becoming increasingly clear that there was grave concern
:11:59. > :12:06.about his leadership. I said to him that I no longer had confidence... I
:12:07. > :12:10.no longer had confidence in his leadership and he then dismissed me
:12:11. > :12:15.from the Shadow Cabinet, which is understandable, and I thanked him
:12:16. > :12:20.for having given me the opportunity to serve as Shadow Foreign
:12:21. > :12:23.Secretary. But the position is this. At this absolutely critical time for
:12:24. > :12:29.our country, following the EU referendum result, the Labour Party
:12:30. > :12:35.needs strong and effect if leadership to hold the government to
:12:36. > :12:39.account as we take huge decisions about the future of our country. We
:12:40. > :12:44.do not currently have that, and there is no confidence that we will
:12:45. > :12:46.be able to win a general election as long as Jeremy Corbyn remains
:12:47. > :12:52.leader, and I thought it was important to say that. Is a
:12:53. > :12:57.concerted move now against him? We have seen Heidi Alexander announced
:12:58. > :13:03.her resignation this morning. There are rumours that more will follow.
:13:04. > :13:08.Will there be more, do you think? Of course, as you would expect. It is
:13:09. > :13:11.for each individual to make their own decision. I have made mine, and
:13:12. > :13:18.I have made my views clear to Jeremy. He is a good and decent
:13:19. > :13:30.man... He is a good and decent man, but he is not a leader, and that is
:13:31. > :13:39.the problem. You called him, presumably? I did. You knew what was
:13:40. > :13:43.going on, presumably. I was not entirely surprised. He took his
:13:44. > :13:49.decision, as he was perfectly entitled to do. Do you accept that
:13:50. > :13:55.what you did was disloyal? Route I did what I believe to be true. -- I
:13:56. > :14:03.said what I believe to be true. I have devoted a lot of my personal
:14:04. > :14:08.life to politics, and if things are not working I think we have a wider
:14:09. > :14:12.responsibility to the party that we love, to speak out, because although
:14:13. > :14:16.this is, number of people will see that this is not an ideal time,
:14:17. > :14:20.there is never an ideal time, but it is not working, so therefore I
:14:21. > :14:25.thought it was important to speak out. Let us talk about the timing.
:14:26. > :14:32.It was less than a year ago that Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader on
:14:33. > :14:35.an absolutely massive landslide vote inside the Labour Party by members,
:14:36. > :14:46.trade unionists and others. Now it appears that there is a coup against
:14:47. > :14:49.him. The Conservative Party is tearing itself apart and an election
:14:50. > :14:55.looms quickly. Is this not the worst possible timing to be doing this? I
:14:56. > :14:58.want to Jeremy to be able to succeed, which is why greed to serve
:14:59. > :15:05.in the Shadow Cabinet. Not every body agreed to do so. But it has
:15:06. > :15:08.become clear that he is not succeeding, and there is never an
:15:09. > :15:11.ideal time and I recognise that and I also understand there will be
:15:12. > :15:20.those in the party live very, very unhappy about this. But we all await
:15:21. > :15:25.Judy -- we all wider duty to the party and the country needs a strong
:15:26. > :15:29.opposition. Can you walk us through the next few days? There will be a
:15:30. > :15:41.meeting on Monday and the possibility of a secret ballot on
:15:42. > :15:44.Tuesday on a motion of no confidence, which Margaret Hodge
:15:45. > :15:47.laid down. Is that when you think you will have to go? It is for
:15:48. > :15:49.Jeremy to make his own decision and further members of the Shadow
:15:50. > :15:52.Cabinet, the front bench, to decide what they will do. A number of
:15:53. > :15:54.things are happening, which you have just described. What we need more
:15:55. > :15:57.than anything else is strong leadership to deal with the
:15:58. > :16:02.challenge that the country faces. Because the decisions that you have
:16:03. > :16:06.just been discussing, article 50, personally, on that, we need to work
:16:07. > :16:12.out what kind of relation job we want to have with Europe. It is
:16:13. > :16:18.important that we continue to have access to the single market, the
:16:19. > :16:23.majority has sent us a message about free movement. We have to accept the
:16:24. > :16:30.decision, though I am very sorry about the outcome. Is there a basis
:16:31. > :16:37.to say, as the Liberal Democrats have done, that this was a
:16:38. > :16:42.catastrophe and we will frustrate the decision if we are elected? We
:16:43. > :16:48.have to respect the democratic decision and democratic will of the
:16:49. > :16:55.British people however much... I am glad you said that. However sad we
:16:56. > :17:00.are about the outcome. It is finished? The decision has been
:17:01. > :17:04.made, we have to make the best of it and heal the wounds. A nation
:17:05. > :17:09.divided on such a fundamental issue, that is not good for the future of
:17:10. > :17:15.the country. Have you decided whether to stand as the leader of
:17:16. > :17:18.the Labour Party? I am not going to be candidate for leader. I did not
:17:19. > :17:24.do this because I wanted to do it, I did it because it was the right
:17:25. > :17:28.thing to do. I care about the party that we have committed so much of
:17:29. > :17:34.our lives too. This seems like a futile coup attempt. Whatever the
:17:35. > :17:39.parliamentary party decides to do, the decision has to go back to the
:17:40. > :17:41.mass membership of the party, who we know are still vehemently
:17:42. > :17:45.enthusiastic we in favour of Jeremy Corbyn. Whatever happens in
:17:46. > :17:51.Parliament, the Labour Party will choose Jeremy Corbyn again, isn't
:17:52. > :17:55.it? That depends what happens. Whether Jeremy Corbyn decides to
:17:56. > :17:58.step down or to fight again. But I would also say to you, from
:17:59. > :18:02.conversations on the doorstep and with Labour Party members, that
:18:03. > :18:07.there are people who voted for Jeremy last year who are now seeing,
:18:08. > :18:11.it is not working, is it? The party will have to reflect on that because
:18:12. > :18:20.in the end we have to decide, are we going to be and affected -- and
:18:21. > :18:26.effective political force? There is a poll on the people today who
:18:27. > :18:29.suggest that people who voted for us as saying that they would not do so
:18:30. > :18:34.now. That would be catastrophic for the party as well as the country,
:18:35. > :18:37.because we need a strong and effective Labour Party. Just
:18:38. > :18:44.guessing, a lot of those are going to go to Ukip? That remains to be
:18:45. > :18:47.seen. We have to show as a party that we have listened to the
:18:48. > :18:55.message, the majority have centres. There are a number of reasons for
:18:56. > :19:01.that, sovereignty and immigration was a big message on the doorstep.
:19:02. > :19:03.Profound change, insecurity, old jobs have disappeared, people
:19:04. > :19:07.worrying about housing and the futures of their children. The
:19:08. > :19:16.Labour Party has to listen and show that we have understated and that we
:19:17. > :19:21.will come forward with policies. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn should now
:19:22. > :19:24.resign as Labour Leader? I no longer have confidence in him and the right
:19:25. > :19:31.thing for him to do with each take that decision, but that is the
:19:32. > :19:39.matter for him. Do you have a candidate in mind to replace them?
:19:40. > :19:46.No, that is not about him. In a sense it is. If there is an
:19:47. > :19:54.election, that will be a decision for the Labour Party. It is
:19:55. > :19:58.increasingly widely felt that the leadership we currently have is not
:19:59. > :20:03.working. I have said that openly and honestly. If there is a vote of no
:20:04. > :20:14.confidence next week, at that point, do you think that it is over for
:20:15. > :20:20.him? It is very difficult for any Labour leader to survive a vote of
:20:21. > :20:25.no confidence from the members that he is leading but we will have to
:20:26. > :20:28.see what happens. If he is supported by the party and the country, would
:20:29. > :20:33.you need a new structure to deal with that? I do not think that is an
:20:34. > :20:39.issue to talk about today. We had to deal with the situation we find
:20:40. > :20:42.ourselves in. We had the referendum campaign, I do not lean Jeremy for
:20:43. > :20:45.the outcome of the referendum, but people saw that he did not bring a
:20:46. > :20:50.great deal of enthusiasm to the task of arguing the case for Britain
:20:51. > :20:53.remaining in the European Union. Some people on the Jeremy Corbyn
:20:54. > :21:02.side of the item and say that you are leading a coup against him. Is
:21:03. > :21:05.that a fairway of putting it? I would not describe it as that
:21:06. > :21:12.myself. How would you describe it? I have come to the conclusion that I
:21:13. > :21:17.no longer have confidence. I said to him that I could not continue to
:21:18. > :21:21.serve and he dismissed me, and he is right to do so. It is for others to
:21:22. > :21:25.take the decision, but if this is the conclusion that we reach about
:21:26. > :21:28.the party that we care about, the right thing to do is to be
:21:29. > :21:33.straightforward and open about it and consequences will unfold.
:21:34. > :21:36.Hilary Benn speaking to Andrew Marr and saying that he has lost
:21:37. > :21:37.confidence in Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of