:00:15. > :00:17.Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the the papers will be
:00:18. > :00:27.With me are Broadcaster Dame Joan Bakewell and Lucy Fisher,
:00:28. > :00:29.Senior Political Correspondent at The Times.
:00:30. > :00:36.Tomorrow's front pages, starting with:
:00:37. > :00:44.Joan, you were in the House of Lords for the debate on the Brexit bill.
:00:45. > :00:49.Let's look at the times, I think. They have got it on their front page
:00:50. > :00:53.and a picture of Theresa May. Unusual for a Prime Minister to go
:00:54. > :00:59.into the Lords and listen to a debate. Very exceptional for the
:01:00. > :01:04.people from the Commons to come in at all. She cannot go into the body
:01:05. > :01:12.of the chamber, if you notice she is sitting with her back to the throne.
:01:13. > :01:18.Not on the throne? Not quite. I was about ten yards from her. There was
:01:19. > :01:25.a flurry, whispering, it is Theresa May. Why do you think she wanted to
:01:26. > :01:30.come in? I was also at the debate and taking part in the debate on the
:01:31. > :01:34.higher education Bill. Joe Johnson came in and stood below the bar,
:01:35. > :01:40.they are interested in what is going on in the Lords. It is a very
:01:41. > :01:44.thoughtful place, less partisan than the Commons and some really
:01:45. > :01:48.well-informed people, whose opinions are worth hearing. I am sure she
:01:49. > :01:53.wanted to see how the Brexit debate was falling either way. She stayed
:01:54. > :01:57.for the two opening speeches and then she went. She wanted to
:01:58. > :02:02.register that she was keeping an eye on us. It was packed today, the
:02:03. > :02:07.Lords. Will you vote for some of the amendments peen put to the Brexit
:02:08. > :02:14.bill? I will be voting for about four of the amendments when they
:02:15. > :02:18.come. The amendments are matters I care about, about the people who are
:02:19. > :02:23.resident here, foreigners who are resident here, they should be given
:02:24. > :02:28.the right to stay. There were very good speeches about the anxiety
:02:29. > :02:32.surrounding the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland prop.
:02:33. > :02:36.Those speeches were very moving, very well informed, not hysterical,
:02:37. > :02:42.but made a point of how serious it was. So I will be voting for that
:02:43. > :02:53.amendment. Lucy, the bill went through the Commons unaltered and
:02:54. > :02:58.not amended. You are trying to block it in some way and trying to change
:02:59. > :03:04.it in the Lords? Government sources we heard from two weeks ago, warned
:03:05. > :03:08.that he is not to play God. David Davis has tried to play down some of
:03:09. > :03:13.the rhetoric. But if there is going to be this prolonged ping-pong with
:03:14. > :03:17.the Lord sending legislation back to the Commons, back to the Lords and
:03:18. > :03:26.back to the Commons again, the upper chamber will call down on its head,
:03:27. > :03:32.big debate about its existence. Bring it on. The role of the Lords
:03:33. > :03:38.is to revise and improve legislation that comes through. We accept the
:03:39. > :03:42.legislation as having been voted through but all legislation can be
:03:43. > :03:49.improved. But this is unique in that it was voted in a referendum, 17.4
:03:50. > :03:53.million people voted to leave and end of story. No, 16 million people
:03:54. > :03:58.didn't vote for it so there are cases being made. In a democracy,
:03:59. > :04:06.the 16 million should also have a voice and that voice is finding its
:04:07. > :04:09.place in the agenda. It is well intentioned that those who say let's
:04:10. > :04:13.get on with it, and of course we had the referendum and the voice of the
:04:14. > :04:18.people have spoken, but they listened discreetly to those who say
:04:19. > :04:22.no in a democracy and those who lose, the 16 million deserve a voice
:04:23. > :04:26.and their point of view to be heard. In some way representing, but not
:04:27. > :04:31.overruling the so-called will of the people, but adding to the richness
:04:32. > :04:36.of the approval that finally goes through. What do you think Theresa
:04:37. > :04:41.May was therefore, was it in any sense to perhaps warned the Lords,
:04:42. > :04:45.don't mess around with this Bill? Absolutely, I thought she looked a
:04:46. > :04:52.spectacle of a menacing intent as she sat there and eyeballed. I felt
:04:53. > :04:56.quite sorry for Natalie Evans, the Conservative leader of the house. It
:04:57. > :05:02.is like having the headmistress come into the back of the class and watch
:05:03. > :05:06.your work. I felt the chill going through the chamber. The Guardian
:05:07. > :05:09.have an analysis of the burden that Britain would be left with if there
:05:10. > :05:15.wasn't any kind of trade deal on leaving the EU. ?6 billion a year
:05:16. > :05:22.the Guardian saying, it would cost British exporters. We will get into
:05:23. > :05:27.some of the mechanics of what the various options are. If we do leave
:05:28. > :05:32.the EU without any settle Brexit deal and crash are, as many people
:05:33. > :05:37.describe it, on the World Trade Organisation rules, we will face
:05:38. > :05:42.higher tariffs. It is interesting, so much complexity and uncertainty
:05:43. > :05:46.around various options. Do we have the expertise in Whitehall? We know
:05:47. > :05:52.there has been a struggle to hire the right negotiators. The Guardian
:05:53. > :05:58.with the 6 billion figure and quote arriving from the former ambassador
:05:59. > :06:03.for the UK to the EU, thought it might take up to ten years to
:06:04. > :06:09.negotiate a deal. If you multiply that by ten years, it is 60 billion.
:06:10. > :06:15.This whole matter of the trade deal is crucial. Theresa May, for some
:06:16. > :06:20.reason, has plumped instantly for very hard Brexit. The Guardian has
:06:21. > :06:24.gone to work on how to cost that. Nigel Lawson spoke about, don't
:06:25. > :06:31.bother with soft Brexit, don't bother about access to the single
:06:32. > :06:37.market, go straight to the WTO. The WTO deal will be really hard for us
:06:38. > :06:45.to sustain. Very punitive. Why are plumbing, choosing to go so directly
:06:46. > :06:50.so hard? Is it a negotiating ploy? I don't understand, it is punitive.
:06:51. > :06:56.Let's talk about the business rate increase the government is talking
:06:57. > :06:59.about, Lucy. Some indications the Chancellor, he was meeting Tory
:07:00. > :07:06.backbenches tonight might be rowing back a little bit? Yes, he has made
:07:07. > :07:10.clear he is in listening mode, alive to some of the complaints MPs have.
:07:11. > :07:17.Half a million small firms in the UK that are set to see rate hikes of up
:07:18. > :07:20.to 300% in some cases. Could be crippling for independent retailers
:07:21. > :07:24.for the high street, in competition with Amazon and the like, these
:07:25. > :07:30.online retailers who are set to see their rates drop. Some of the
:07:31. > :07:33.details, Sajid Javid, the community secretary has been on holiday in
:07:34. > :07:40.Dubai. This issue has been on our front pages day after day and Philip
:07:41. > :07:46.Hammond coming to talk to his backbenchers, I wonder if there is a
:07:47. > :07:50.split emerging in the Cabinet. It is a full-scale row because the
:07:51. > :07:55.Treasury are very cross he seems to have messed up on this arrangement.
:07:56. > :08:00.This is at the heart of Tory policy. This is where their voters and
:08:01. > :08:06.supporters of small businesses and big businesses is. To have this row
:08:07. > :08:11.going on and keep on running, it is in the papers day after day, this is
:08:12. > :08:16.damaging, someone has to step in and sort it out or are they waiting for
:08:17. > :08:22.the budget? I think there could be possibly something in the budget on
:08:23. > :08:26.this. There is an interesting line, Sajid Javid has been accused by his
:08:27. > :08:32.backbenchers of dodgy figures. He wrote to MPs at the end of last
:08:33. > :08:35.week, Conservative MPs and has been accused of doctoring those figures
:08:36. > :08:39.between five and 7% to make it look like areas have rates that are over
:08:40. > :08:45.all falling, one that is not the case. Speaking of dodgy figures, the
:08:46. > :08:54.Daily Mirror have got a story, the Lasse Kjus Dame Joan to talk about,
:08:55. > :09:00.because there is criticism of the Lords are still leaching. They have
:09:01. > :09:06.evidence from a BBC programme where a pier was spotting knitting in to
:09:07. > :09:14.claim his ?300 allowance while he or she kept a taxi waiting outside. It
:09:15. > :09:19.is outrageous. I don't know anyone who does it, because the people I
:09:20. > :09:24.associate with stay all day and do a good job. I am not aware of it
:09:25. > :09:30.happening. Is there any excess in the Lords? A lot of hard working
:09:31. > :09:34.people doing boring stuff most of the time that don't make the
:09:35. > :09:38.headlines. They attend in large numbers. If a couple keep the taxi
:09:39. > :09:42.waiting comet they shouldn't and it is a scandal but not enough to bring
:09:43. > :09:47.down the Lords. Because it looks like we will be bringing ourselves
:09:48. > :09:52.down anyway. Lucy, what is your experience of the Lords, is it
:09:53. > :09:58.represented criticism or one-off, a peer keeping a taxi waiting? It is
:09:59. > :10:04.very fashionable to bash an elected chambers. My experiences, it is a
:10:05. > :10:08.high level of debate, people are experts. While everyone is
:10:09. > :10:13.opinionated, when I watch debates I can only see people speaking up when
:10:14. > :10:17.they have relevant expertise. Overall, I am impressed from what I
:10:18. > :10:23.have seen. The Lords was absolutely packed today. Absolutely crowded.
:10:24. > :10:27.They were sitting on the stairs, very keen. And tomorrow, it goes on
:10:28. > :10:32.from 11 in the morning to midnight. It is one of the turning point in
:10:33. > :10:37.history, this bill. It is taken very seriously by everyone who is there
:10:38. > :10:43.and nearly 200 people are going to speak about it. A good atmosphere in
:10:44. > :10:49.there? You get to hear what everybody says, even those who
:10:50. > :10:55.disagree with them. The Daily Mail, story about universities told to
:10:56. > :11:00.throw the book at SA cheats. Lucy, I am sure you weren't a cheat at
:11:01. > :11:05.university? No, I can safely say. But I was aware of it and friends of
:11:06. > :11:09.mine made a bit of extra cash on the side by writing some of essays for
:11:10. > :11:13.less scrupulous students and handed them in as their own. I think part
:11:14. > :11:18.of the problem is, when you can sign up online and pay money to write it,
:11:19. > :11:27.it is at the spoke service, I can have a B+, I think it is going to be
:11:28. > :11:31.difficult to crack down. I was told by someone who marks papers that it
:11:32. > :11:36.is possible to identify. A phrase that keeps cropping up, you only
:11:37. > :11:40.have two Google that phrase and it takes you to the source material and
:11:41. > :11:47.you can identify it. But if it has been written by Airbus spoke essay
:11:48. > :11:53.for you, it won't have been written on line. But they are used by source
:11:54. > :11:57.material, you can put the phrases in and see what the source material
:11:58. > :12:01.was. Once you have got the Internet and loads of information, it is
:12:02. > :12:06.going to be hard to track. You probably could, but it will be a lot
:12:07. > :12:13.of effort, will it be worth it? They will not get degrees and they will
:12:14. > :12:17.not get good jobs. I favour an exam -based system and maybe get rid of
:12:18. > :12:22.the coursework which bogs you down and doesn't let you get to grips
:12:23. > :12:27.with material. Let's finish off with something neither of us are guilty
:12:28. > :12:31.of which is mumbling on the television. In the Telegraph, Joan
:12:32. > :12:41.they have a story about the latest drama, SSGB, complaints about the
:12:42. > :12:48.mumbling. There were a few bits of dialogue I had to rewind and I still
:12:49. > :12:54.didn't understand. At my age, I do have to have the subtitles with a
:12:55. > :12:58.drama and lots of music. Lotsa people said they needed the
:12:59. > :13:07.subtitles on this programme. Also, I turn the subtitles of Billy McClure
:13:08. > :13:13.of when I watch the news because the people who do the news speak very
:13:14. > :13:18.clearly. I do find when you are in a wine bar or a restaurant, the
:13:19. > :13:22.background music can be loud. I am shouting at my partner, dining
:13:23. > :13:27.partner from across the table which makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
:13:28. > :13:33.That is a sign of getting old when you think the music in bars and
:13:34. > :13:35.restaurants is getting to live. Thank you so much for being with us,
:13:36. > :13:39.both of you. Don't forget you can see the front
:13:40. > :13:42.pages of the papers online It's all there for you -
:13:43. > :13:50.seven days a week. And if you miss the programme any
:13:51. > :13:53.evening you can watch it No mumbling, we promise you. Good
:13:54. > :14:16.night. Hello, many parts of the UK got an
:14:17. > :14:20.early dose of spring, certainly encouraging the spring bulbs out
:14:21. > :14:22.across parts of the UK. Temperatures 18 Celsius