:00:13. > :00:15.Hello, and welcome to our look ahead to what The Papers will be
:00:16. > :00:19.With me are Ian Birrell, Assistant Editor at the Mail
:00:20. > :00:23.on Sunday and Shyama Perera, journalist and broadcaster.
:00:24. > :00:29.The Sunday Times claims EU migrants living in Britain will continue
:00:30. > :00:33.to get child benefits after Britain leaves the EU.
:00:34. > :00:36.The Observer leads with the coalition air strikes in Mosul,
:00:37. > :00:39.which it says have killed at least 150 civilians and caused
:00:40. > :00:46.The Sunday Express's front page features the Conservative MP
:00:47. > :00:49.Tobias Ellwood and says he's spoken for the first time after trying
:00:50. > :00:53.to save PC Keith Palmer in Wednesday's terror attacks.
:00:54. > :00:57.The Mail reports that the air ambulance Prince William
:00:58. > :01:01.co-pilots had a near miss with a drone last summer.
:01:02. > :01:04.The Sunday Telegraph leads with Douglas Carswell's
:01:05. > :01:06.resignation from UKIP, reporting that it's led to a civil
:01:07. > :01:24.So, let's start where we ended, with the Sunday Telegraph. Ukip civil war
:01:25. > :01:29.after Douglas Carswell quits the party and leaving it without an MP.
:01:30. > :01:36.There is a certain inevitability to this because we have known for some
:01:37. > :01:39.time that Ukip is very divided between the different factions, and
:01:40. > :01:43.it is quite entertaining on one level to see here is Douglas
:01:44. > :01:46.Carswell who, when he joined the party, held a by-election and said
:01:47. > :01:50.how nice it was to have a leader with whom he agreed, but now he says
:01:51. > :01:54.he is quitting and it is amicable from his point of view. Instantly,
:01:55. > :01:59.people like Nigel Farage and Paul Nuttall are putting the boot into
:02:00. > :02:03.him. I quite enjoy the amicable to wear Paul Nuttall writes in the
:02:04. > :02:06.Sunday Telegraph he managed to beat of this competition to get an
:02:07. > :02:11.exclusive piece of him right he would have hoped for a more bone up
:02:12. > :02:16.approach to politics. It is a sign of extremely infighting going on in
:02:17. > :02:19.this party, which is rather pointless these days given that it
:02:20. > :02:25.Brexit. Which was Douglas Carswell's Brexit. Which was Douglas Carswell's
:02:26. > :02:31.reason for leaving. It is interesting that you spoke about
:02:32. > :02:34.Ukip as an extremist party, but we know that as part of the tension
:02:35. > :02:41.within the party. Nigel Farage says they must be radical, not
:02:42. > :02:44.mainstream. I'm not sure I saw them as an extremist party, more a one
:02:45. > :02:55.trick pony and the trick has been one so far. If we do leave, and we
:02:56. > :02:58.are expecting that, I can see why Douglas Carswell is leaving, he is
:02:59. > :03:04.the lone wolf. He has always written his own agenda, and he has been able
:03:05. > :03:07.to do so because Ukip has no purchase within Parliament. Sir
:03:08. > :03:12.Douglas Carswell has always been able to say I am Ukip, I am this and
:03:13. > :03:17.I am that, and he has got away with it. I am not sure what he ever did
:03:18. > :03:22.to help Ukip's cause, it has only ever helped Douglas Carswell's cause
:03:23. > :03:26.because it got him on the front pages when open ever noticed him
:03:27. > :03:32.before. But there is this tension when people like Nuttall and Nigel
:03:33. > :03:35.Farage want to reinvent the party as a force against the Labour Party, to
:03:36. > :03:42.make it a populist and left-wing, and suddenly they are now pushing
:03:43. > :03:45.for the NHS is a very sacred cause. They are hoping to undermine Labour.
:03:46. > :03:51.Douglas Carswell is more philosophical, a more liberal
:03:52. > :03:54.approach to immigration, and there has been this tension between the
:03:55. > :03:58.two wings which have muddled together through the referendum, and
:03:59. > :04:04.now it is coming open. The trouble is, the two wings don't marry up,
:04:05. > :04:06.between Douglas Carswell who is fundamentally a liberal
:04:07. > :04:11.conservative, and people like Nuttall who are trying to remake the
:04:12. > :04:16.party as this sort of working-class attracting rival to the Labour
:04:17. > :04:22.Party. Fascinating. That, in a sense, is the party. If we have a
:04:23. > :04:27.think about the man himself the Sunday Times on page three, MP
:04:28. > :04:34.Carswell don't leave by walking out on Ukip. This is in a sense a more
:04:35. > :04:37.personal take on what has happened. They are considering what Douglas
:04:38. > :04:41.Carswell might do now. He says he will sit as an independent, but some
:04:42. > :04:45.in the Conservative Party might say come back, all is forgiven. Yes,
:04:46. > :04:50.walking back to happiness, I suspect that is what he will try to do.
:04:51. > :04:57.Although he says not. Perhaps he will, Patsy will put on a white suit
:04:58. > :05:01.and become a more permanent independent MP. I don't really care
:05:02. > :05:06.what happens to Douglas Carswell, but what is interesting about Ukip,
:05:07. > :05:10.a bit like trump it is made up of people who are not naturally
:05:11. > :05:15.politicians, and one understands now why politics has become so
:05:16. > :05:20.sophisticated because people turn it into a career from day one. If you
:05:21. > :05:23.come from somewhere else, you can't manage the competitions and
:05:24. > :05:26.different strands that have to be played simultaneously. That is what
:05:27. > :05:30.is happening in Ukip. It is not necessarily a lack of commitment or
:05:31. > :05:35.knowledge, it is a lack of political know-how. Also, a lot of
:05:36. > :05:38.Conservatives really don't want Douglas Carswell to come back,
:05:39. > :05:42.perhaps because he betrayed them. Equally for Carswell it is difficult
:05:43. > :05:47.because he made a firm stance, he has written a book about rebellion
:05:48. > :05:52.in politics, he is very much about direct democracy and about a new way
:05:53. > :05:54.of doing politics, as he calls it. One of those things was to hold a
:05:55. > :05:57.by-election when he switched parties. He has not held a
:05:58. > :06:05.by-election becoming an independent, and it would be difficult to become
:06:06. > :06:10.a conservative without holding a by-election. And his majority is
:06:11. > :06:14.about 3500, considerably down from what it was before. It is
:06:15. > :06:17.interesting because it is one of the firmest basis for Ukip in the
:06:18. > :06:20.country, in terms of support for Brexit, so it would be an
:06:21. > :06:32.interesting test if there were a by-election. Let's move on to the
:06:33. > :06:38.Sunday Times's FrontPage. It is about EU migrants keeping benefits
:06:39. > :06:42.after Brexit. This is the week in which article 50 is to be triggered,
:06:43. > :06:48.so a lot of EU stories in the Sunday papers today. I suppose I am not
:06:49. > :06:54.surprised, but basically it means that all the rights that had been
:06:55. > :06:58.enjoyed by all EU citizens, not only those here, but as in other
:06:59. > :07:02.countries, will continue for those who were here before Article 50 is
:07:03. > :07:06.called. I don't think anybody can be surprised by it. A lot of people
:07:07. > :07:09.will be angry yet again because this was one of the problems that was
:07:10. > :07:16.going to be dealt with, and there is a certain oddness about somebody
:07:17. > :07:19.working here but having benefits for families that are not declared here,
:07:20. > :07:25.in the sense they are not visible to us. I also have a slight problem
:07:26. > :07:28.with this, which is that I have never quite understood it. But it
:07:29. > :07:34.seems to me in terms of parity, of course this has to continue. This
:07:35. > :07:40.comes from a draft paper submitted to the Department for exiting the
:07:41. > :07:44.EU, so we don't actually know this is government policy, but it is
:07:45. > :07:48.intriguing. It shows that even as we are about to trigger Article 50,
:07:49. > :07:53.politicians don't have a clue what is ahead of us. We are jumping off a
:07:54. > :07:58.cliff and we have no idea of the end result. It also shows how utterly
:07:59. > :08:02.pointless Brexit is because we will end up basically, all this talk of
:08:03. > :08:06.taking back control, but a lot of the things which were claimed would
:08:07. > :08:10.be achieved by taking back control and Brexit are not achievable, we
:08:11. > :08:14.will still have to pay into the EU to get rights for things like some
:08:15. > :08:17.of the service sector, for Finance, we're not really going to be able to
:08:18. > :08:26.cut migration much because no one has actually answered if we get rid
:08:27. > :08:29.of care workers, the agricultural workers, the city workers, the
:08:30. > :08:33.entrepreneurs in the city, who are we talking about me talk about
:08:34. > :08:36.cutting back immigration? We will be paying money, we will still
:08:37. > :08:40.beginning benefits, we will still have high immigration, and it is
:08:41. > :08:44.just a farce. It shows, going back to the previous story, the utter
:08:45. > :08:50.nonsense talked about by those he Brexit campaigners. Over the next
:08:51. > :08:55.five years, Britain will be dominated by an utterly pointless
:08:56. > :08:59.debate while more important issues such as NHS, social care,
:09:00. > :09:04.productivity, getting the economy right going to be ignored. You speak
:09:05. > :09:08.strongly. There will be many viewers who disagree with you. We will leave
:09:09. > :09:11.that that because it is a conversation we all have for the
:09:12. > :09:16.next two years and longer. This is not meant to the front page
:09:17. > :09:22.of The Observer. Mosul assault halted as theory grows over civilian
:09:23. > :09:26.deaths. This is about the US coalition carrying out air strikes.
:09:27. > :09:31.If you think these strikes are lily a week ago and they are still
:09:32. > :09:35.pulling out survivors, this story is horrific. In the week we had a
:09:36. > :09:38.terror attack in London, it does bring into clear relief difference
:09:39. > :09:44.between what we are worrying about and what is happening somewhere
:09:45. > :09:48.else, where we are getting our hands dirty, maybe for the right reasons,
:09:49. > :09:52.but does that mean it is all right to get your hands dirty? I am not
:09:53. > :09:57.sure. This is an interesting story to look at this week when we have
:09:58. > :10:04.been getting so anxious over a lone wolf acting criminally. It is
:10:05. > :10:09.interesting the impact this will have in the area because it does
:10:10. > :10:12.appear that there is some twiddling of support for the actions being
:10:13. > :10:20.taken by the West. Dash-macro dwindling. It undermines what
:10:21. > :10:23.happens with Russia, they can argue they were fighting terrorism and so
:10:24. > :10:27.were you, but actually is not quite true because Russia will not
:10:28. > :10:34.targeting Isis, they were purely backing Assad, who has killed far
:10:35. > :10:37.more people than Isis. But also, this does undermine support for the
:10:38. > :10:41.Iraqi government, and for the Western approach. That is a
:10:42. > :10:45.significant factor, and this is not the first. There have been other
:10:46. > :10:54.incidents, not as bad as this one, but that is a problem, when people
:10:55. > :10:57.are fleeing their homes, we have two remake this country at the end of
:10:58. > :11:02.this process, whatever happens. It is significant politically and on a
:11:03. > :11:07.humanitarian level as well. Absolutely.
:11:08. > :11:11.Let's go on to the other main story on the front page of The Observer,
:11:12. > :11:19.the story that has dominated the news this week, the Westminster
:11:20. > :11:26.Keller acting alone in less than 1.5 minutes. Yes, 82 seconds they have
:11:27. > :11:30.broken it down into. I am not quite sure what one takes from this. I
:11:31. > :11:35.suppose what we can say is no wonder it took a little while for the
:11:36. > :11:42.killer to be shot because it all happened so quickly. Even when you
:11:43. > :11:46.are reacting instantly there will be a level of delay. If you think how
:11:47. > :11:51.far he moved in that 82 seconds, one minute he is in a car, then he is
:11:52. > :11:55.out of the car, then he is running to the gates of Parliament. An awful
:11:56. > :12:00.lot happened in that 82 seconds. It is surprising and shocking, and you
:12:01. > :12:05.suddenly clearly understand that sequence of events and why it
:12:06. > :12:10.happened that way. But it also just reminds you that all violence is
:12:11. > :12:16.shocking and sudden, and it is very hard to have a response ready for
:12:17. > :12:20.it. That is the key point. It is incredible that so many lives are
:12:21. > :12:23.transformed so quickly, in such a horrifically short period of time.
:12:24. > :12:28.It shows how difficult it is to guard against this. Equally, it does
:12:29. > :12:32.remind us that this man was basically a rather tragic,
:12:33. > :12:38.inadequate loser with a criminal record, just like the man in the
:12:39. > :12:45.East who performed a much worse atrocity in the same sort of manner.
:12:46. > :12:48.That man also had a history of drugs and drink me he had no connection
:12:49. > :12:54.with Islamist. We are saying the same thing here, key has grievances
:12:55. > :12:59.against society and is using this cause in an explosion of horrific
:13:00. > :13:03.anger. It means we do have to be wary of some of the backlash that
:13:04. > :13:07.you get and how we approach the Muslim community, which often gets
:13:08. > :13:12.wrongly blamed on and just accept that what we are really fighting is
:13:13. > :13:20.a rallying call for people who are basically loses. You have worked in
:13:21. > :13:24.Westminster for a long time, security is already pretty tight.
:13:25. > :13:28.Clearly there are loopholes. Security is tight, but we are in a
:13:29. > :13:31.democracy and you have to have freedom, you have to have access to
:13:32. > :13:35.Parliament. There are people going in in huge numbers, there are
:13:36. > :13:40.meetings taking place, you want to see their MPs, we want
:13:41. > :13:43.schoolchildren to go in and see democracy in action. Democracy is
:13:44. > :13:47.also under attack, not just here but in a wider sense, and it is a
:13:48. > :13:51.symbolic value of having Westminster open to the public. You can never
:13:52. > :13:55.have perfect security, we have to recognise that. In many ways, it is
:13:56. > :14:00.incredible that this is the first kind of attack in a decade. That is
:14:01. > :14:05.a credit to the security services. I grew up in the age when IRA bomb
:14:06. > :14:10.attacks were going of the whole time, and we have seen the death of
:14:11. > :14:14.Martin McGuinness this week, and actually Irish terrorism killed many
:14:15. > :14:18.more people than this new form of terrorism today. The tragic reality
:14:19. > :14:26.is that society do have people who want to explode their anger against
:14:27. > :14:29.other people. Indeed. There was allegedly an attack in Islington
:14:30. > :14:36.last night, where somebody drove a car onto the pavement and pulled out
:14:37. > :14:40.nice, but because it is not terrorism, we can't have an armed
:14:41. > :14:43.policeman on every corner, and we certainly didn't after the killing
:14:44. > :14:49.of Jo Cox, which actually involves a firearm. We have to get everything
:14:50. > :14:52.into perspective. We have a superb security force and the police are
:14:53. > :14:56.doing a brilliant job. And as you say, it is what you don't see that
:14:57. > :15:01.tells you that security is working, not seeing with people with guns on
:15:02. > :15:10.the street, that tells you that security is not working. The front
:15:11. > :15:14.page of the Times, Boris Johnson, disgusting Google. This is a joint
:15:15. > :15:20.approach by Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd, both targeting social media
:15:21. > :15:24.websites. The Times has led the way this week with some strong stories
:15:25. > :15:35.showing how social media websites are allowing people to have all this
:15:36. > :15:39.nonsense on it, and how advertising are inadvertently funding extremist,
:15:40. > :15:43.and this has led to a bandwagon, leading to some companies
:15:44. > :15:46.withdrawing from it. This is typical of politicians, jumping on it and
:15:47. > :15:49.saying they have got to do something, and they are right, it is
:15:50. > :15:55.important. Google and Facebook and the like do need to do their utmost
:15:56. > :16:00.to eliminate this sort of material on there, and they do need to take
:16:01. > :16:07.action. It is great to see this attention at this time. Don't you
:16:08. > :16:11.feel like Boris Johnson is like King Canute, trying to hold back the sea?
:16:12. > :16:15.We are all out there putting forward our opinions, and to be releasing
:16:16. > :16:20.all of that simultaneously, websites, social media, it is a huge
:16:21. > :16:24.job. Do you think it is not possible? It is not possible, if you
:16:25. > :16:28.take down one website, another will pop up. If you are taking them down
:16:29. > :16:30.more quickly, they would just manufacture websites that go up
:16:31. > :16:36.every ten minutes. I just don't know, we have a president of the
:16:37. > :16:44.United States who takes to social media to put out his bile. It is
:16:45. > :16:48.very hard, I think, for these companies to distinguish. I do agree
:16:49. > :16:55.they should take out websites that are explicitly espouse terrorist
:16:56. > :17:01.activity, but I think it is very difficult to be able to do that.
:17:02. > :17:11.Moving on finally to the Mail on Sunday, page 15, taking issue with
:17:12. > :17:22.comic relief. Foul language, unfunny skits... Ban Comic Relief, fair
:17:23. > :17:31.enough. There has been a general opinion this year, heard elsewhere,
:17:32. > :17:35.that tend to macro is not funny, -- Comic Relief. I think the more
:17:36. > :17:37.fundamental issue is why is the BBC hosting Comic Relief because it does
:17:38. > :17:42.put out one particular viewpoint which is that aid is a good thing
:17:43. > :17:48.and eight works, and all these heroic medians are saving Africa,
:17:49. > :17:55.but there is a fundamental issue, why is the BBC promoting aid in this
:17:56. > :18:00.way? I am not sure what aid us at all, really. If you are running
:18:01. > :18:05.malaria projects, or HIV projects, all of those are fantastic because
:18:06. > :18:08.they are about changing outcomes for generations, and they are about
:18:09. > :18:14.changing behaviours and creating a healthy constant, but not this. OK.
:18:15. > :18:19.There we to leave it. Thank you both very much indeed.
:18:20. > :18:24.Many thanks to my guests and just a reminder that we will take a look at
:18:25. > :18:37.tomorrow's front pages every evening at 10:40pm here on BBC News.
:18:38. > :18:43.Good morning. It has been a glorious start to the day, most of us seeing
:18:44. > :18:45.sunshine from the word go. Some fantastic sunrise pictures have been
:18:46. > :18:46.sent