:00:00. > :00:00.working west to east across the country, another breezy day and that
:00:00. > :00:11.makes way for a fairly unsettled week ahead. Bye for now.
:00:12. > :00:18.We'll be taking a look at tomorrow morning's papers in a moment -
:00:19. > :00:26.Police have named two of the three men responsible
:00:27. > :00:32.They're Khuram Butt and Rachid Redouane.
:00:33. > :00:36.Khuram Butt was 27, a British citizen, and born in Pakistan,
:00:37. > :00:38.who used to work on the London Underground.
:00:39. > :00:42.He was known to the security services but police say there was no
:00:43. > :00:47.A vigil has been held in central London to commemorate the seven
:00:48. > :00:50.people who died, and 48 others injured in Saturday's London Bridge
:00:51. > :00:55.18 people remain in a critical condition.
:00:56. > :00:57.The first victim to be named is 30-year-old
:00:58. > :01:02.The sister of James McMullan says she believes her brother is also
:01:03. > :01:23.With me are Laura Perrins, Co-Editor of the website
:01:24. > :01:25.The Conservative Woman and Torcuil Crichton,
:01:26. > :01:30.the political editor of The Daily Record.
:01:31. > :01:35.'The i' leads its coverage with the conciliatory words
:01:36. > :01:39.by a relative of one of the victims, in Saturday's attack at London
:01:40. > :01:43.The Metro calls a Romanian baker a 'true Brit',
:01:44. > :01:46.after he squared up and confronted the attackers.
:01:47. > :01:48.The Sun asks why the authorities didn't stop the attacker
:01:49. > :01:51.Khuram Butt, after he appeared on a TV documentary
:01:52. > :01:56.The Guardian reports on the Metropolitan Police's
:01:57. > :02:00.plans to reform the national counter-terrorism strategy.
:02:01. > :02:03.While the Times says one of the attackers was known
:02:04. > :02:08.to the authorities as having links to the 7/7 suspects.
:02:09. > :02:10.The Daily Telegraph leads with Khuram Butt's openness
:02:11. > :02:12.about his extremist views, before carrying out
:02:13. > :02:18.The Daily Mirror asks how did Butt slip through the security net,
:02:19. > :02:23.despite being known to the authorities.
:02:24. > :02:25.And the Mail says MI5 and Scotland Yard investigated
:02:26. > :02:33.Khuram Butt two years ago, then let him go.
:02:34. > :02:46.Lots of questions indeed concerning Khuram Butt. Seemed to be on the
:02:47. > :02:50.radar of the authorities. "Brazen Jihad is that it was free to parade
:02:51. > :02:58.his extremism on TV. " He appeared in a Channel 4 documentary on
:02:59. > :03:01.extremism. Overall, a bad night for the security services, MI5 and
:03:02. > :03:08.Scotland Yard. It is actually beyond parody in that Khuram Butt, first of
:03:09. > :03:13.all, a Pakistani born and then came to Britain with his parents, Britain
:03:14. > :03:23.granted them refugee status, just like the parents of the killer from
:03:24. > :03:36.the Manchester attack. Khuram Butt in the background of the Channel 4
:03:37. > :03:40.documentary called The Jihadis Next Door. He was free to carry out the
:03:41. > :03:44.attack. Even worse but the security services, he did fall under
:03:45. > :03:49.investigation but was deemed not to be a threat of the investigation was
:03:50. > :03:53.pulled back. Also, within the story in the Telegraph, the third
:03:54. > :03:58.individual who was not named, was also named to the security services.
:03:59. > :04:06.The question now will be, is there a gap in the legislation, do the
:04:07. > :04:12.security services need more power to take somebody like Khuram Butt on,
:04:13. > :04:17.if he isn't explicitly planning an attack but looks like a real risk to
:04:18. > :04:22.safety of the public? What else can be done in terms of legislation? It
:04:23. > :04:27.may be that there is nothing that can be done but there is a question
:04:28. > :04:31.that needs to be looked at. The bottom line is, MI5, the security
:04:32. > :04:42.agencies, they have a lot of people to look out. -- to look at. 3000, it
:04:43. > :04:46.may be. That still leaves a lot of other people who need to be looked
:04:47. > :04:50.at as well. They took the decision that this man was not the kind of
:04:51. > :04:56.serious threat that needed 24-hour surveillance. Because the killers
:04:57. > :05:03.have been named, or two of the three of them have been named, across all
:05:04. > :05:07.the papers today. No surprise he wasn't a clean skin, he was on the
:05:08. > :05:13.radar, off the radar, back on the radar. He was on the Channel 4
:05:14. > :05:21.documentary The Jihadis Next Door. He wasn't considered a risk.
:05:22. > :05:28.Britain's most senior antiterrorism officer, defending his decision,
:05:29. > :05:32.saying there was nothing that would suggest that a decision had been
:05:33. > :05:37.made. They knew about this guy but prioritised him into the lower
:05:38. > :05:45.echelons of their investigators work. Every day, they have to make
:05:46. > :05:53.these calls on who to follow, who to monitor, who to directly approach,
:05:54. > :05:59.echoes of -- because the bad guys know that a good guys are looking at
:06:00. > :06:06.them. They can't get at them all. The focus now does turn on why was
:06:07. > :06:13.he missed, why do you keep missing him. You can't legislate people
:06:14. > :06:19.thinking about people planning an act of terrorism. In part of the
:06:20. > :06:31.documentary, we are going to the Daily Mirror... How the hell did he
:06:32. > :06:41.slipped through? The London Bridge terrorist. In a few words, say what
:06:42. > :06:47.everybody is thinking. How the hell did he get through. He is literally
:06:48. > :06:54.on TV advertising the fact that he is a jihadi. He is unfurling an ice
:06:55. > :07:03.is flat. It seems astonishing that he would stay either below the radar
:07:04. > :07:12.for this long. -- Isis flag. This is not somebody who is just outside the
:07:13. > :07:18.main. OK, he is unfurling a Isis flag. I was told by a
:07:19. > :07:23.counterterrorism experts that it takes 20 people 24 hours a day to
:07:24. > :07:29.watch somebody. What are you going to do? I think unfurling a Isis flag
:07:30. > :07:38.could amount to infighting hatred. You can be pulled up for a tweet
:07:39. > :07:44.these days. The Met Will now put people under investigation. Yet you
:07:45. > :07:48.can go on national TV, it seems, and unfurl the Isis flag and you won't
:07:49. > :07:54.even be pulled in for questioning. He was obviously pulled in
:07:55. > :08:01.questioning and was spoken to bite if the guy unfurls our flag in the
:08:02. > :08:11.hope that he will be arrested... I'm not sure if it is a proper Isis
:08:12. > :08:22.flag. The headline says unfurling a Isis fla on Channel 4 from The
:08:23. > :08:30.Jihadis Next Door. I don't think there is any question in relation to
:08:31. > :08:36.the fact this ... He must have said something that could have amounted
:08:37. > :08:41.to, an offence. It would be a low level a fence, no doubt about that.
:08:42. > :08:42.Which means he probably wouldn't have been held for that long --
:08:43. > :08:54.offence. The Times goes into this in-depth as
:08:55. > :09:00.to whether or not there was a greater network. This is the issue.
:09:01. > :09:05.Initially it may seem minor, you know, he is not that serious. If you
:09:06. > :09:11.probe deeply enough it may be that there is a more serious network
:09:12. > :09:15.behind him. But it is speculative. Yes, it is speculative and takes
:09:16. > :09:20.time and resources. Meanwhile you have 3000 people who are serious
:09:21. > :09:24.about potentially doing something. This brings up, again, talk of
:09:25. > :09:28.control orders. How do you monitor someone when you do not have
:09:29. > :09:37.evidence, to put them on a court of law? It is two things. Guys out
:09:38. > :09:42.there on and off the radar, you cannot monitor them all at the same
:09:43. > :09:53.time and, B, it shows us the scale of the problem and the changes since
:09:54. > :09:57.March 22 when we thought that guy on Westminster and we saw someone
:09:58. > :10:01.gunned down, the mistake then was to think that that was it, that that
:10:02. > :10:07.was the big attack that London had been waiting for. It was not. It was
:10:08. > :10:12.the first act in this three act tragedy, coming up to the general
:10:13. > :10:16.election on Thursday. Let's just bring up the Daily Mail. We had him
:10:17. > :10:26.and let him go... If there was a change and it was anticipated, this
:10:27. > :10:31.change in activity, five foiled activities and three successful, why
:10:32. > :10:35.are we having an election in the middle of all of this?! The campaign
:10:36. > :10:42.was suspended for a day yesterday... But the decision to stage an
:10:43. > :10:45.election must of been taken against the background of this increased
:10:46. > :10:51.activity because it must have been on the radar. I heard and imams
:10:52. > :10:54.speak today talking about the fact that you always get a spike in
:10:55. > :11:00.attacks during Ramadan. Ramanathan is the holy month. It is a
:11:01. > :11:04.particularly special month for anyone who apparently wants to
:11:05. > :11:10.perform jihad. There was a call from Isis to do that. That is another
:11:11. > :11:17.interesting question. Britain faces different level of terror threat
:11:18. > :11:20.police warn. This brings us, starting to bring us onto the
:11:21. > :11:24.political dimension of all of this. Of course, this plays into the
:11:25. > :11:32.election campaign. And, whether or not, the police, that there are
:11:33. > :11:35.enough of them, festival and whether Conservative cuts have contributed
:11:36. > :11:40.to a situation, a different situation on the ground. And, also,
:11:41. > :11:44.whether or not police and security services and need more powers. The
:11:45. > :11:49.duelling battle between those two ideas. It is beginning to sink in
:11:50. > :11:55.now that this is a real and significant, serious threat in
:11:56. > :11:58.Britain and Scotland Yard's Assistant Commissioner is saying the
:11:59. > :12:03.changes may be necessary to cover one, the police, too, MI5 and three,
:12:04. > :12:14.and communities, technology companies, the law, and other
:12:15. > :12:17.areas... On the other -- one hand I have great sympathy but on the other
:12:18. > :12:22.I think we should always examine closely when somebody asks for, when
:12:23. > :12:28.is police and security ask for yet more power. What I would want to
:12:29. > :12:38.know is what is the gap? What prevented them from pursuing Khuram
:12:39. > :12:45.Butt. He was known. Stop them? What was in the decision-making process
:12:46. > :12:51.that said we would downgrade him. Is it having lots of extra powers or
:12:52. > :12:54.more police officers on the street, would that have changed that
:12:55. > :12:59.decision? Perhaps. I certainly think there should be more police on, you
:13:00. > :13:07.know, on the beat. Not behind their desks. Labour tried to make a lot
:13:08. > :13:10.about these 20,000 cuts. It may be relevant but if those police
:13:11. > :13:14.officers simply put behind a desk as opposed to within the community they
:13:15. > :13:18.serve, I doubt it would make much of a difference. You have encapsulated
:13:19. > :13:23.what the debate has been all day today between conservative and
:13:24. > :13:26.labour and what it would be if the next 50 odd hours until the polls
:13:27. > :13:32.open on Thursday morning. We have Tuesday and Wednesday left and
:13:33. > :13:36.security and who keeps us save, what the gaps are and where they are,
:13:37. > :13:40.whether there are enough leaves and whether they should be harmed, these
:13:41. > :13:43.are the questions that will play out over the next two days in the
:13:44. > :13:48.election campaign. The front page of the Times, another attacker linked
:13:49. > :13:54.to the 77 bombing attack. One of the gaps could be simply being on the
:13:55. > :13:59.end of a phone on the anti-terrorist Hotline and taking the call and
:14:00. > :14:03.noting down the details. Apparently two calls were made about this man
:14:04. > :14:11.over the last few years by members of his own community. This story is
:14:12. > :14:16.quite complex and in terms it is saying that there could be a much
:14:17. > :14:22.wider link and he was linked to a greater terrorist network. In
:14:23. > :14:26.particular he was a contact of the eldest of the four suicide bombers
:14:27. > :14:34.on 77. Bling seems to be through a gym in East London where Khuram Butt
:14:35. > :14:38.actually work. It is at issue, if you downgrade an investigation, what
:14:39. > :14:42.you miss behind the scenes? It may be that there are only a few steps
:14:43. > :14:48.to go before you up a wider network. Again, it is easier to speculate
:14:49. > :14:51.than actually be there but this is always the problem between resources
:14:52. > :14:57.and whether you have 20,000 suspects, how far can East
:14:58. > :15:02.investigation go? It is a real problem now and it may be that
:15:03. > :15:06.resources will have to change. The Times does a good treatment of what
:15:07. > :15:13.we know about the suspect all, the killers, and joining these dots
:15:14. > :15:16.through an East London gym, a trainer there who was linked to hate
:15:17. > :15:27.preacher who supplied the 77 killers. So directly between Khuram
:15:28. > :15:35.Butt and one of the four 7/7 bombers. They have balance that with
:15:36. > :15:39.pictures of one of the missing victims and that two killers
:15:40. > :15:44.themselves. We touched on the political dimension of all that. I
:15:45. > :15:55.would like to say that the Times have done our story on James
:15:56. > :16:01.McMullan. This is a man who apparently, I think, a body has been
:16:02. > :16:08.found and his credit card has been found. But as yet there has not been
:16:09. > :16:15.a formal identification. Yes. It is his sister who gave a statement,
:16:16. > :16:19.Melissa McGowan. -- McMullan. It is horrific to the family but they are
:16:20. > :16:25.sure that their brother has died. The front page of the Daily Express
:16:26. > :16:29.talking about Theresa May asking to be trusted to keep them all say. We
:16:30. > :16:37.know where the Daily Express is coming from. She had trouble today
:16:38. > :16:43.is selling an outline, however. I went at a press conference. 21
:16:44. > :16:48.questions, no answers. You know? She was challenged six times directly on
:16:49. > :16:54.whether she regretted or whether she should have got police numbers and
:16:55. > :16:59.each time she dodged and avoided comment she went to a 2015 Timeline
:17:00. > :17:03.when the Conservative government said they would increase numbers.
:17:04. > :17:07.But there were a good five years before then where police numbers
:17:08. > :17:16.were down. She is not out of the woods on this, far from it. At the
:17:17. > :17:22.same time, on the front page of the Guardian, me unpatriotic? Complete
:17:23. > :17:25.nonsense says Jeremy Corbyn. Attacks on him because of comments that he
:17:26. > :17:30.made about anti- terror legislation in the past. It is bad news to
:17:31. > :17:38.Jeremy Corbyn if he has to actually have an interview to confirm that he
:17:39. > :17:46.is patriotic. And does not want... You would expect Labour in the last
:17:47. > :17:50.72 hours of the campaign for the Conservatives to focus on Jeremy
:17:51. > :17:59.Corbyn and his perceived lack of... There should not be a question
:18:00. > :18:03.marked that the proposed leader of the UK should be unpatriotic but
:18:04. > :18:07.here we are debating map. In fairness to Jeremy Corbyn, many
:18:08. > :18:13.people did oppose certain aspects of the previous terror legislation. But
:18:14. > :18:18.what concerns me, leaving Jeremy Corbyn aside, in particular, is John
:18:19. > :18:21.McDonald who I think we has previously signed a letter calling
:18:22. > :18:25.for MI5 and armed police to be disbanded. There is one thing not
:18:26. > :18:33.have enough resources, another thing to completely disband MI5 and
:18:34. > :18:39.someone said that a victory in the British state as a victory for
:18:40. > :18:43.assault. Those kind... We will have to ended there, I am sorry. I know
:18:44. > :18:47.you could go on for much longer. Thank you. Don't forget you can see
:18:48. > :18:53.all the front pages of the papers online on the BBC News website. You
:18:54. > :18:56.can also watch it later on the BBC I play. Thank you again to both of you
:18:57. > :19:00.for joining us.