:00:00. > :00:00.Ministers have ordered urgent checks on buildings where similar work has
:00:00. > :00:20.Hello, and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be
:00:21. > :00:23.With me are the writer and broadcaster, Mihir Bose,
:00:24. > :00:29.and the former Pensions Minister, Baroness Altmann.
:00:30. > :00:31.Good evening to you both. Good evening.
:00:32. > :00:34.Tomorrow's front pages, starting with this.
:00:35. > :00:37.There's only one story on tomorrow's front pages.
:00:38. > :00:38.The Telegraph carries a haunting photograph
:00:39. > :00:44.The Express reports people throwing their children out
:00:45. > :00:46.of windows to save them from the blaze.
:00:47. > :00:49.The i describes the tragedy as avoidable, saying that residents
:00:50. > :00:54.had repeatedly raised concerns about fire safety.
:00:55. > :01:00.The Metro warns that dozens of people are feared dead.
:01:01. > :01:03.The Guardian focuses on the warnings from residents it says were ignored.
:01:04. > :01:05.The Times reports that the blaze spread through the building
:01:06. > :01:16.The demands to know how something like this could have happened.
:01:17. > :01:19.And the Mirror carries a photograph of the burning building
:01:20. > :01:36.So, we will begin. So much to talk about. This story rightly dominates
:01:37. > :01:54.every single front page. The Mail. It has that terrifying image of the
:01:55. > :01:57.tower, really, as an Inferno, asking how the hell could it happen, a
:01:58. > :02:02.sober pun, because it does look like hell. It must have felt like hell.
:02:03. > :02:06.This is such a tragedy. The first thing is to talk about the people
:02:07. > :02:10.who have suffered, the families and loved ones, people in hospital,
:02:11. > :02:17.people we don't know what happened to them. My heart goes out to them.
:02:18. > :02:22.How could this happen in Britain? The indication is this is clearly a
:02:23. > :02:26.tragedy that could have and should have been avoided. We need to know
:02:27. > :02:31.why it wasn't and who is responsible and what steps were not taken that
:02:32. > :02:36.should have been taken? In a country like ours, one of the most advanced
:02:37. > :02:48.and developed, with our resources to make and health and safety
:02:49. > :02:52.regulations. Yes. A fire destroys a whole tower block? That is what this
:02:53. > :03:02.is suggesting. Sheer disbelief we can see this in London. In this day
:03:03. > :03:07.and age and in our country, with all the effort of rules and regulations,
:03:08. > :03:11.fire safety has been a strong point in all of the health and safety
:03:12. > :03:21.regulations, and every tower block has to have a fire safety
:03:22. > :03:28.inspection. It all has to pass. The residents seemed to have been told
:03:29. > :03:36.it did and there was no fire risk. This is a Dickensian past. It should
:03:37. > :03:44.have happened decades ago, not in 2017. The i. It spells out a little
:03:45. > :03:49.bit more on the front page what you were saying about the concerns
:03:50. > :03:53.raised. Tragic, horrific, avoidable. It has gone on to detail in the
:03:54. > :04:02.other pages about concerns raised a long time ago in 2009. There was a
:04:03. > :04:08.fire back then. Six people died. 20 people were injured. At that time,
:04:09. > :04:11.the fire spread very quickly and there were questions spread about
:04:12. > :04:20.how that happened. It seems nothing has moved on from there. In 2013,
:04:21. > :04:30.there was an all-party Fire and Rescue review. Questions need to be
:04:31. > :04:33.answered. The residents themselves have been raising questions and
:04:34. > :04:36.warning that this sort of thing could happen. Regulations were
:04:37. > :04:42.changed, but clearly whatever was done has not avoided this kind of
:04:43. > :04:48.disaster. And that is the real sadness of all of this. You know?
:04:49. > :04:54.People have spent a lot of time and a lot of money on assessing fire.
:04:55. > :05:00.They had a policy for fire. Clearly it is not sufficient. It takes
:05:01. > :05:06.something like this for us to learn that. The residents where indeed
:05:07. > :05:10.warning it would take a catastrophe, a catastrophic event, as the put it,
:05:11. > :05:18.before someone would take them seriously. Questions were raised
:05:19. > :05:24.about the cladding acting like chimney, encouraging the fire to
:05:25. > :05:32.spread, going between the cladding and the walls. It was meant to keep
:05:33. > :05:36.people safe. They were told to stay put in their flat and they would be
:05:37. > :05:41.rescued. That advice sounds almost lethal, an invitation to death. In
:05:42. > :05:49.fact, those who ignored the advice save themselves. That is where you
:05:50. > :05:56.got the headline "Deathtrap." Actually, the stay put advice would
:05:57. > :06:04.be OK if they came and put the fire out. But if you were staying put,
:06:05. > :06:07.and you were thinking you should get out, you could not, because the
:06:08. > :06:14.smoke and flames engulfed everything. Yes. How could this
:06:15. > :06:19.advice you given when the fire safety precautions were not there to
:06:20. > :06:25.make the advice mean anything? What makes it more sad is the London Fire
:06:26. > :06:33.Brigade apparently warned about this cladding. There are already concerns
:06:34. > :06:39.about it. We have to stress that we don't know if this is because. We
:06:40. > :07:00.don't know. -- the cause. There was also talk about recent gas pipes and
:07:01. > :07:03.works, some new ones put in the stairwell with boilers and so on.
:07:04. > :07:07.There may be other reasons, but we don't know. And this building is
:07:08. > :07:12.30-40- 50 years old. People living in similar properties will be
:07:13. > :07:16.worried today. We don't know much about it except that it moved very
:07:17. > :07:20.fast in a matter of minutes. The fact you can talk about so many
:07:21. > :07:27.potential reasons, these have all come out during the day, mostly from
:07:28. > :07:31.residents. I just feel sorry for those residents who have been going
:07:32. > :07:40.along and saying this is a risk, this is a risk, and have been told,
:07:41. > :07:44."No, it's fine." Obviously, no one wants to be proven right in these
:07:45. > :07:52.circumstances. We have to make sure we understand what because he is. --
:07:53. > :07:57.the cause is. The government will be looking at buildings with similar
:07:58. > :08:03.cladding. I hope they put in place rescue plans in case this happens.
:08:04. > :08:09.If you have safety standards and they don't work, what do they mean?
:08:10. > :08:13.It destroys confidence! The whole thing is based in confidence. There
:08:14. > :08:18.are fire safety standards and I believe when a fire comes I will be
:08:19. > :08:33.safe. If they don't work, there is no way to feel secure. All of the
:08:34. > :08:37.flats had these expensive fire doors put in. A lot of money was spent
:08:38. > :08:39.trying to do this. Clearly, something has been going wrong.
:08:40. > :08:43.Something has gone dreadfully wrong. Yes. We spent some time talking
:08:44. > :08:49.about how it happened and concerns raised. Let us talk now about the
:08:50. > :08:55.people. The Times. A picture of one of the people waving from their
:08:56. > :09:04.window. I cannot imagine how desperate they may have been inside.
:09:05. > :09:09."Help, help!" A story of trapped parents throwing their children. One
:09:10. > :09:14.was caught, apparently. That is an amazing story. Extraordinary.
:09:15. > :09:22.Wonderful. The fact they had to do something like this! This echoes of
:09:23. > :09:30.what happened in 9/11. Yes. That was a totally different thing. This, the
:09:31. > :09:34.causes of this, they should have been avoided. We don't know if the
:09:35. > :09:42.parents of the baby survived. They were thrown out of the ninth or
:09:43. > :09:50.tenth floor. We don't know how many have died. The news at the moment is
:09:51. > :09:59.12. We know roughly 600 people were in the block, don't we? We only know
:10:00. > :10:03.about a certain number of deaths and people in hospital. Stories of
:10:04. > :10:10.people calling loved ones. One had four children. When she got down...
:10:11. > :10:15.Six when she was up and four when she was down. Another, her
:10:16. > :10:17.12-year-old daughter, got separated somehow. They don't know where she
:10:18. > :10:29.is. That they had a stable policy
:10:30. > :10:33.because they only had a single staircase. If all of the residents
:10:34. > :10:37.were trying to get out while the Fire Brigade were trying to get in,
:10:38. > :10:43.then the fire could not be extinguished. Stapleton is a
:10:44. > :10:48.widespread policy. The Fire Brigade has to be able to get in to put any
:10:49. > :10:54.fire out. With one stairwell, it is common to stay tell people to stay
:10:55. > :10:58.in their flat if their flat is not on fire, to allow emergency services
:10:59. > :11:06.to work. Clearly that was not the right advice here. The fire doors
:11:07. > :11:12.clearly did not work. The blaze spread so quickly. That is the
:11:13. > :11:16.thing. That the blaze spread quickly. They may have withstood the
:11:17. > :11:23.fire but they were overcome by smoke, we do not know. Continuing on
:11:24. > :11:28.to the Metro. Every front page has this terrible, terrible photograph
:11:29. > :11:35.on it. The Metro has in the foreground one of the many brave
:11:36. > :11:38.firefighters. The heroes. They are the ones, really, we should
:11:39. > :11:45.acknowledge. They do what they do all their time and that picture sums
:11:46. > :11:49.it up. There he is, fighting the fire but you can feel the strain.
:11:50. > :11:54.Understandable he should be feeling strain but is still doing this job
:11:55. > :11:57.in trying to rescue people. Some firefighters say this is the worst
:11:58. > :12:01.thing they have ever seen. There have been in the service for decades
:12:02. > :12:08.and they have not seen anything quite like this. We have not seen
:12:09. > :12:12.anything like this. This is a towering Inferno, movies like that.
:12:13. > :12:19.What you think is may believe that this is a real-life tragedy. They do
:12:20. > :12:24.an amazing job day in and day out. Unfortunately, recently, they have
:12:25. > :12:29.had a lot to cope with. Not just the firefighters, of course. They have
:12:30. > :12:33.all stepped up to the mark and done what they are supposed to do and we
:12:34. > :12:37.rely on them that they really did come through and they have been
:12:38. > :12:43.there to help just as we would want them to. We do not often
:12:44. > :12:46.acknowledged that, we do not highlight what happened with Borough
:12:47. > :12:51.market, how quickly rescue services were there. The point has been made
:12:52. > :12:55.with firefighters in particular is that while everyone else is fleeing
:12:56. > :13:00.danger, they are going into it and it must have been terrifying. They
:13:01. > :13:06.were going up the floors and searching all the flats. They got to
:13:07. > :13:13.the 19th or of the 24 building. -- 24 floor building. They are trained
:13:14. > :13:18.and they are professional, they are dedicated and they are there for us.
:13:19. > :13:21.I can not pay enough tribute to them, they really do the most
:13:22. > :13:30.magnificent work. The unsung heroes, really. It is comforting that one
:13:31. > :13:37.sector of our society does work and work well stop at moments like this
:13:38. > :13:42.it's good to know that the rescue services work and that is some
:13:43. > :13:46.comfort in the tragedy. There will be stories coming out highlighting
:13:47. > :13:50.that. And they will have saved many people. It is terrible for those
:13:51. > :13:54.they did not save that they will have saved a large number of people
:13:55. > :13:59.by being there and guiding them to safety. We speak about people
:14:00. > :14:03.crawling around in the dark because they could not see and when they
:14:04. > :14:07.were trying to reach the stairs and the emergency services were guiding
:14:08. > :14:13.them through. Let's mention the community coming together and
:14:14. > :14:17.donating loads of things. You had the priest talking about it earlier.
:14:18. > :14:23.That shows humanity. That is something that we should be proud
:14:24. > :14:26.of. Britain does pull together in an emergency. We have always pulled
:14:27. > :14:33.together and supported each other in difficult times. People are still
:14:34. > :14:37.turning up with blankets and food and... Offers of accommodation,
:14:38. > :14:43.whatever it is, British people really do have that great spirit of
:14:44. > :14:52.wanting to help when people are in trouble. One more front page on this
:14:53. > :15:00.story, the Guardian. It has a different angle on that image that
:15:01. > :15:04.equally stark. It talks, amongst other things, about the families who
:15:05. > :15:09.are still searching for people who are missing. We touched on that
:15:10. > :15:14.slightly but it talks about some individuals, particularly, a
:15:15. > :15:20.12-year-old girl, a family with three children, an 82-year-old man.
:15:21. > :15:24.Yes stop yes. The 82-year-old man who could not quite walked out of
:15:25. > :15:31.the lights and said he would stay where he was stop they don't know
:15:32. > :15:35.where he is now. One cannot imagine the panic and the fear that must
:15:36. > :15:42.have been going through. At the time. Those people who got out, some
:15:43. > :15:46.of them did get out with elderly relatives. They must feel so
:15:47. > :15:51.grateful that they managed to escape. Others may have stayed
:15:52. > :15:56.behind to look after people. They did not want to leave a relative who
:15:57. > :16:02.was disabled, whatever. Who could not manage the stairs. One was in
:16:03. > :16:06.the lifts... I think the 82-year-old had gone down one for the lift and
:16:07. > :16:12.was told to get out because, obviously, the lift will not be
:16:13. > :16:15.saved in this situation. -- says in this situation, but he could not
:16:16. > :16:20.handle the stairs. They do not know what happened to him. The agony will
:16:21. > :16:25.go on. We don't know for how long, before they find their loved ones.
:16:26. > :16:29.Let's hope there are some happy and good stories that some people will
:16:30. > :16:33.turn up, some of the missing. It does happen that somebody runs away
:16:34. > :16:37.from a tragedy like this and then you find that they are actually OK,
:16:38. > :16:41.but maybe they did not take their mobile with them which is why they
:16:42. > :16:47.are not answering. Let us hope we hear some of that. Turning now to
:16:48. > :16:51.work couple of other stories, one of which in other times would have been
:16:52. > :16:57.much bigger news and that is the resignation of the Liberal them a
:16:58. > :17:08.great leader Kim Farren. What do you make of this story? Were you
:17:09. > :17:16.surprised? -- Tim Farron. It was clearly hoping to create a third
:17:17. > :17:21.way. Although their seats increased, it is not much of a wave, it is
:17:22. > :17:27.hardly a ripple in the pond full doc the reason he gave is that you
:17:28. > :17:32.cannot be a man of faith and lead a party. I find that extraordinary.
:17:33. > :17:37.Were you convinced by that reasoning? No. Now I was not stop he
:17:38. > :17:43.can say that he personally would not believe in gay marriage but I will
:17:44. > :17:49.support anybody, I will not have a law that makes gay marriage illegal.
:17:50. > :17:54.So a distinction between personal faith and political leanings. He
:17:55. > :17:57.seemed to think there is a contradiction in that, suggested
:17:58. > :18:01.that the media made a contradiction when, actually, he should have
:18:02. > :18:06.resolve the contradiction himself. He should have said these are the
:18:07. > :18:11.personal beliefs, these are the party beliefs and I will always
:18:12. > :18:18.support the party policy. More sympathetic? I feel very sad that
:18:19. > :18:25.this is somebody who really does have strong faith and felt that he
:18:26. > :18:32.could not marry the face, if you excuse the expression, with being a
:18:33. > :18:36.political leader. He came under enormous pressure and unfairly so at
:18:37. > :18:40.the beginning of the campaign when everybody was forcing him to talk
:18:41. > :18:44.about what he thinks of gay marriage. I agree with you. He
:18:45. > :18:48.probably did not handle that as well as he could have but it was
:18:49. > :18:52.relentless pressure that took away from really important issues of
:18:53. > :18:57.policy and what this party stood for. This party does support gay
:18:58. > :19:02.marriage. He was the leader of the party, as you say, this personal
:19:03. > :19:06.believes may be different but he would not have imposed those beliefs
:19:07. > :19:15.on other people. What he was asked was this own personal belief. They
:19:16. > :19:18.kept on and on asking him. He did not make the distinction very clear.
:19:19. > :19:23.He shied away from it but I think that was the issue. He shied away
:19:24. > :19:27.from saying that he has a personal belief and a party policy and there
:19:28. > :19:33.is no contradiction because I have come out in politics to do certain
:19:34. > :19:38.things and I am part of a party that will support these policies, fine. I
:19:39. > :19:42.will carry them out. He did not do that well enough. All he said was
:19:43. > :19:46.that it does not want to talk about it. Because he was being criticised
:19:47. > :19:51.for this personal belief. That is what was happening. When he was
:19:52. > :19:55.being interviewed he was being criticised for being, if you like,
:19:56. > :19:59.all, for himself, not willing to countenance the idea that he would
:20:00. > :20:05.accept a gay marriage. That was the problem. In a way, the line of
:20:06. > :20:09.questioning, instead of him trying to ride above it are the other
:20:10. > :20:12.leaders may have done and they sorry, that is not relevant, I am
:20:13. > :20:16.here as leader of the Liberal Democrats and these are policies,
:20:17. > :20:21.this is what we stand for. This own beliefs are this own issues, enough.
:20:22. > :20:25.That is depressing if a man or a woman of AIDS cannot become a
:20:26. > :20:31.political leader because the political party has views contrary
:20:32. > :20:37.to that person's religious views. We have come to a very depressing
:20:38. > :20:41.stage. That's what he was saying in this speech today and that is why I
:20:42. > :20:46.have see with him because he clearly felt that. He may be a bit more
:20:47. > :20:51.sceptical and I may be a bit naive but I think he really did feel that
:20:52. > :20:57.he could not come any longer, be in a position. If they had gotten 50
:20:58. > :21:05.seats he would not have resigned... Thank you both very much. That is if
:21:06. > :21:09.the papers tonight. You can see the front pages of the papers online on
:21:10. > :21:15.the BBC News website, all there for you seven days a week. If you mist
:21:16. > :21:17.the programme any evening you can watch it later Ron on the BBC
:21:18. > :21:33.iPlayer a full thank you very