0:00:00 > 0:00:06I'm talking to Chris Bodington, the mountaineer who has reached the
0:00:06 > 0:00:14world's highest places his memoir is called, of course - Ascent.
0:00:18 > 0:00:22Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the the papers will be
0:00:22 > 0:00:23bringing us tomorrow.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25With me are Henry Zeffman, political reporter at the Times
0:00:25 > 0:00:28and public affairs consultant, Jacqui Francis.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30Welcome to the both.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32Tomorrow's front pages, starting with The Financial Times,
0:00:32 > 0:00:37which reports that ministers are expected to give
0:00:37 > 0:00:40Theresa May the go ahead to increase the Government's Brexit
0:00:40 > 0:00:48financial settlement offer to move on EU negotiations.
0:00:48 > 0:00:53The taily Telegraph one of a number of papers moving on Robert Mugabe's
0:00:53 > 0:00:57defiance of the country's generals by remaining in power this evening.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00The Metro also leads on Zimbabwe, describing Mugabe as "Clinging On".
0:01:00 > 0:01:03And the I also focuses Mugabe's defiance of the Zanu-PF party's
0:01:03 > 0:01:11decision to remove him as leader.
0:01:11 > 0:01:16The Daily Express reports research that the Royal family has
0:01:16 > 0:01:18contributed £1.8 billion to the UK economy this year, as the Queen
0:01:18 > 0:01:26and Prince Philip celebrate their 70th wedding anniversary.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29The Daily Mirror saying former Tory defence chiefs have accused the
0:01:29 > 0:01:31Government of damaging the Armed Forces by cutting funding no.
0:01:31 > 0:01:36Picture on this at the moment. But it gives you a little flavour. Let's
0:01:36 > 0:01:42kick off. This evening, Jacqui, one big story in town making it through
0:01:42 > 0:01:46to the front pages, Robert Mugabe and this surprise turn and big
0:01:46 > 0:01:49announcement that wasn't a big announcementAbsolutely. It I is as
0:01:49 > 0:01:55here he shocked the world. I imagine there are more people in Harare, in
0:01:55 > 0:01:59Zimbabwe that are shocked than the lest of the world. It must have been
0:01:59 > 0:02:03patently obvious to him he was going, and the fact he was doing a
0:02:03 > 0:02:07televisedes announcement, everybody is waiting to hear, to find out that
0:02:07 > 0:02:09he thinks that mistakes have been made and that he can
0:02:09 > 0:02:11he thinks that mistakes have been made and that he can come back.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14That's what I understand he seems to be saying, he is not going anywhere.
0:02:14 > 0:02:19I'm not sure whether or not they gave him the right speech or he read
0:02:19 > 0:02:20T something has gone
0:02:20 > 0:02:22gave him the right speech or he read T something has gone horribly wrong.
0:02:22 > 0:02:27There are suggestions going around maybe a couple of pages he turned
0:02:27 > 0:02:31over deliberately on purpose but it was a turn up for the books.
0:02:33 > 0:02:37Well it was almost chaotic, there were bits during the 30-hour ramble.
0:02:37 > 0:02:42More of a ramble than a speech where he seemed to lose his place and one
0:02:42 > 0:02:47of the generals near him had to point out what page he was on and
0:02:47 > 0:02:53when the cameras were rolling at the end he said "I'm sorry can we
0:02:53 > 0:02:56correct bits" perhaps not realising it was live. So it was a peculiar
0:02:56 > 0:03:00what we thought was going to be the end of his 37 years in power but it
0:03:00 > 0:03:04wasn't, that and obviously quite chaotic in Harare tonight.What do
0:03:04 > 0:03:07you make of what might happen next? One of the interesting things in the
0:03:07 > 0:03:12past week has been t started as a military coup, as it were, with
0:03:12 > 0:03:17Mugabe's sacked deputy looking line he was going to take over but then
0:03:17 > 0:03:23the people took to the streets. One of the interesting dynamics will be
0:03:23 > 0:03:26whether it is a transition to democracy that the Zimbabwean people
0:03:26 > 0:03:30want or whether it is a change for one part of the ruling elite to
0:03:30 > 0:03:33another part of the ruling elite. What happened today suggests
0:03:33 > 0:03:38something a bit more like the loot At theJacqui, it was interest,
0:03:38 > 0:03:42within his speech, Robert Mugabe talked about conflicts potentially
0:03:42 > 0:03:46within the party, intergenerational conflict. Talking about the need it
0:03:46 > 0:03:50perhaps bring on new blood but keep the old established players as well.
0:03:50 > 0:03:57It goes to show there is a lot going on in ZANU-PF.There is indeed and
0:03:57 > 0:04:01as you said Henry there might be backtracking, I don't know whether
0:04:01 > 0:04:04they fought people were too ingrained inthe military didn't have
0:04:04 > 0:04:07the decisive hand in terms of getting rid of people. Because, you
0:04:07 > 0:04:11know you are getting rid of one set of people for another who are
0:04:11 > 0:04:16equally, in some case, people would say corrupt and it is about power
0:04:16 > 0:04:20and who has the power. Maybe the idea of saying - go now, it was
0:04:20 > 0:04:23actually, do you know how much you would have to get rid of in order to
0:04:23 > 0:04:29put your own people in place and the fact that his wife - I still quite
0:04:29 > 0:04:34get that bit. Because, you know, he has obviously been planning this for
0:04:34 > 0:04:37a long time and all of a sudden people realise she really does want
0:04:37 > 0:04:42to become the next leader so we should do something about it. I have
0:04:42 > 0:04:45this horrible suspicion about when a woman decides to do something - wou,
0:04:45 > 0:04:49it is terrible, horrible, but if it had been a man who was plotted the
0:04:49 > 0:04:53same thing, would there have been the same response?All the way
0:04:53 > 0:04:57through the generals were saying it isn't a kou. We don't want to take
0:04:57 > 0:05:05Mugabe out of office, we want to change parts of the corrupt ZANU-PF
0:05:05 > 0:05:11elite. People thought it was cover and they were trying to remove him
0:05:11 > 0:05:15and place him with their deputy. But tonight suggests maybe they were at
0:05:15 > 0:05:20their word and maybe they wanted to get rid of Grace Mugabe and who
0:05:20 > 0:05:24weren't war vetted rans, the younger generation, and it wasn't about
0:05:24 > 0:05:36taking Robert Mugabe out.And the Daily Telegraph - Mugabe defies the
0:05:36 > 0:05:41generals and clings on. We were well aware, we were speaking to the
0:05:41 > 0:05:44ZANU-PF representative in the UK tonight. We arewell aware his own
0:05:44 > 0:05:47party says he is no longer the leader yet he said in his speech
0:05:47 > 0:05:52tonight - I will be overseeing the meeting in December of ZANU-PF's
0:05:52 > 0:05:56Congress and so on. Somehow some communication has gone badly wrong.
0:05:56 > 0:06:05.Something is going on in the background, whether or not he is
0:06:05 > 0:06:09negotiating, dotting the I's or crossing the t's to his exit or
0:06:09 > 0:06:12conspiracy theory, are people in other countries saying - we are not
0:06:12 > 0:06:15sure what the deal is going to be with the new leader, maybe we will
0:06:15 > 0:06:19back him because he has had strong backing from China all along and as
0:06:19 > 0:06:28far as I'm concerned if they say zsh we are not sure all of a sudden it
0:06:28 > 0:06:32pauses until they are reasthurd this transition is going to be the
0:06:32 > 0:06:34transition they need in order to continue to build the infrastructure
0:06:34 > 0:06:41and make as much money as they can. It is certainly true that some other
0:06:41 > 0:06:45countries in Africa, which have similar ruling elites in place for
0:06:45 > 0:06:49some time, will be looking at Zimbabwe and hoping what is
0:06:49 > 0:06:54happening there doesn't catch on. They won't want the African
0:06:54 > 0:06:57equivalent of the Arab Spring, which some of the scenes in Zimbabwe over
0:06:57 > 0:07:03the last few days have reminded me off but it comes back to the scenes
0:07:03 > 0:07:06of the people exercising the coup, doing what is going on at the top in
0:07:06 > 0:07:09the presidential Palace but the clips are seen of people in the
0:07:09 > 0:07:13streets whop want investment in the country, who want a stronger economy
0:07:13 > 0:07:15and a more modernised infrastructure. Those are two
0:07:15 > 0:07:21different things.We mustn't forget the background to all of this is a
0:07:21 > 0:07:25country in economic meltdown and the problems Zimbabwe have faced, the
0:07:25 > 0:07:28people there are Des straight to see change.They are. I suppose it is
0:07:28 > 0:07:32not very popular to remind people, that yes, he has been there for
0:07:32 > 0:07:38what, nearly 40 years? But this wasn't a problem and this wasn't
0:07:38 > 0:07:43something that started with him. We are talking about, it used to be
0:07:43 > 0:07:47called Rhodesia, Ian Smith. Let's not forget this is down to him at
0:07:47 > 0:07:51the moment but it has been a long time coming and isn't something that
0:07:51 > 0:07:56happened overnight. As you have said, yes, the people on the ground
0:07:56 > 0:08:00want jobs and stability. If you start hollowing out the whole
0:08:00 > 0:08:03country and taking the money out, where elsewhere you going to get the
0:08:03 > 0:08:06very much, except for other countries that have decided - yes,
0:08:06 > 0:08:11we want to put more money back into this place.Henry we mustn't forget
0:08:11 > 0:08:15that these Pape letters come out tomorrow morning and in those terms
0:08:15 > 0:08:20it is a crucial day in Zimbabwe. -- papers will come out. Because
0:08:20 > 0:08:24ZANU-PF said if he didn't step down by noon tomorrow they'll start
0:08:24 > 0:08:27impeachment and that will be the crucial decision for them to be
0:08:27 > 0:08:31mulling over tonight whether they'll hold him to that.Rab salutely. One
0:08:31 > 0:08:35of the strangest parts of Mugabe's speech is having been sacked by his
0:08:35 > 0:08:39party, earlier that day, he talked about how he was going to preside
0:08:39 > 0:08:42over ZANU-PF's scheduled Congress next month and establish a sort of
0:08:42 > 0:08:47plan for getting out of this situation. It's not at all clear how
0:08:47 > 0:08:51that is compatible with the fact he doesn't run ZANU-PF any more. So,
0:08:51 > 0:08:55the people that you have been interviewed today have made quite
0:08:55 > 0:09:00clear, members of ZANU-PF that they are going to lanch impeachment
0:09:00 > 0:09:03proceedings. I suppose the question to which extent the rules which have
0:09:03 > 0:09:07been established to work for Mugabe, work for the people trying to I can
0:09:07 > 0:09:13at that down Mugabe. Typically in dictatorships they don't.Plenty
0:09:13 > 0:09:17more to talk about on this tomorrow, a big story. Let's move to one side
0:09:17 > 0:09:21Jacqui. Staying with the Daily Telegraph, the story on the
0:09:21 > 0:09:26right-hand side, a Brexit story about the money.Yes, we had the
0:09:26 > 0:09:29conversation before about how much money we were going to pay and it
0:09:29 > 0:09:33was almost like - well we want to negotiate first, then we will decide
0:09:33 > 0:09:37how much money. And I was saying to Henry, last I heard somebody was
0:09:37 > 0:09:41talking about, it is a bit like them wanting to pay for a meal and we
0:09:41 > 0:09:45haven't finished it but if you go out for a meal you have an idea it
0:09:45 > 0:09:48is going to cost because you can see the prices on the menu. Here it
0:09:48 > 0:09:52seems to me that the Prime Minister's arm has been twisted by
0:09:52 > 0:09:55Philip Hammond, who is saying - we want to know what we are getting
0:09:55 > 0:09:59first before we increase the amount of money we are talking about. We
0:09:59 > 0:10:02are talking about £20 billion, possibly but, you know we are back
0:10:02 > 0:10:06to this - show us, you know there is no show us the money first, there is
0:10:06 > 0:10:10show us what the deal is, fist, then we'll start on the money. Everybody
0:10:10 > 0:10:14is getting fed up.Henry, remind us of some of the figures we are seeing
0:10:14 > 0:10:24in some stories. What might change, how much might this offer go up by?
0:10:24 > 0:10:28At the moment, Britain sorted of publicly accepted they are offering
0:10:28 > 0:10:32around £20 #3wi8 yob. There are suggestions it'll double, an extra
0:10:32 > 0:10:37pods 20 billion to persuade the EU to declare in their own terms
0:10:37 > 0:10:42something called sufficient progress in mid-December to move talks on to
0:10:42 > 0:10:48trade and transition next year. Theresa May had meetings in Sweden
0:10:48 > 0:10:55at the end of last week with Donald Tusk, Emmanuel Macron and the Irish
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Prime Minister who insisted we are far off. That's the context of the
0:10:58 > 0:11:01discussion over money. Clearly the Government is going to offer some
0:11:01 > 0:11:05more money but although, Philip Hammond, you know sort of leading
0:11:05 > 0:11:09pro-EU, although he is not particularly pro EU but in relative
0:11:09 > 0:11:16terms in the Cabinet, pushing more money to move to on but we are
0:11:16 > 0:11:21talking about the Brexit subcommittee, Boris Johnson in
0:11:21 > 0:11:26alliance with Michael Gove, who ruined his o leadership intentions
0:11:26 > 0:11:35la year, saying they have to move on.People say is it really about
0:11:35 > 0:11:40the money or is it political. Is moving it that much a big deal for
0:11:40 > 0:11:43our economy?Because we started with the stance - we are only going to
0:11:43 > 0:11:46give you a certain amount and nothing else. We have found it
0:11:46 > 0:11:48difficult to be more conciliatory, when actually it is about the detail
0:11:48 > 0:11:53now. There are people in this country worried about whether or not
0:11:53 > 0:11:55they can style. There are businesses making decision abouts whether or
0:11:55 > 0:11:59not they are going to stain if this is a stumbling block, we are going
0:11:59 > 0:12:04to keep going around and around and not actually starting to discuss the
0:12:04 > 0:12:06substance which is what everybody outside of Westminster wants people
0:12:06 > 0:12:11to do, discuss the substance. The FT, Henry of course has this story -
0:12:11 > 0:12:15May set to secure Cabinet support for higher Brexit divorce bill
0:12:15 > 0:12:20offer. That really highlighting what you were starting to allude to.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22Which is, whether she has the combination of people in the Cabinet
0:12:22 > 0:12:26to back here. It does expose again, tensions in who wants to play it
0:12:26 > 0:12:31which way?It is kind of a reminder of why May called a general
0:12:31 > 0:12:34election, now seven months on or whatever it looks disaster, the
0:12:34 > 0:12:38worst mistake a Prime Minister has made in peace Tyne so on but she
0:12:38 > 0:12:41wanted to have the authority from the public to be able to say to her
0:12:41 > 0:12:44Cabinet - I don't care what you think or what you said what side you
0:12:44 > 0:12:48are on in the referendum. I'm the Prime Minister the people have given
0:12:48 > 0:12:51me a mandate to negotiate a deal and this is the amount I'm going to
0:12:51 > 0:12:56offer. Now she is and the FT sets it out well -- she is at the mercy of a
0:12:56 > 0:12:59finely-balanced Cabinet. Lots of people now to want to take her job
0:12:59 > 0:13:02in due course as well who all have their own view on how they can
0:13:02 > 0:13:06negotiate it Bert. I also think it is worth remembering, it is not just
0:13:06 > 0:13:11money which is the stumbling block, a striking thing last week, both the
0:13:11 > 0:13:13Irish Prime Minister and EU officials were insisting, if you
0:13:13 > 0:13:16don't have an answer to the Irish border question before December,
0:13:16 > 0:13:19whether or not you offer us the money, we are not moving the talks
0:13:19 > 0:13:22on. It is very striking the absence of anything in the papers tomorrow
0:13:22 > 0:13:25about how the British Government is going to solve that aspect of it as
0:13:25 > 0:13:29well.Plenty of head scratching. While we are talking about money,
0:13:29 > 0:13:33take us on to the Daily Express, this is the Royal Family in this
0:13:33 > 0:13:37instance, a picture of the Queen and Prince Phillip celebrating 70 years
0:13:37 > 0:13:42of marriage but the story is based on a research that has been done
0:13:42 > 0:13:45about whether the monarchy gives us good value for money, really?Well
0:13:45 > 0:13:51according to this they do indeed. They contributed £1.8 billion and
0:13:51 > 0:13:57they cost us £292 million, which is the equivalent of £4.50 per person
0:13:57 > 0:14:05or £1p a day, which, you know what can you buy for 1p.£4.50 per person
0:14:05 > 0:14:09per year.Yes, I think they are trying to tell us they are good
0:14:09 > 0:14:12value for money. Who is the definition of monarchy? Who is
0:14:12 > 0:14:16included? Because there are a number of people that you and I probably
0:14:16 > 0:14:23think - actually do I want it pay for those individuals? Are they
0:14:23 > 0:14:30included in the £2. 9 -- £292 million.What do you make of this?
0:14:30 > 0:14:36Well not enough to pay our divorce bi. I notice although they say the
0:14:36 > 0:14:39monarchy has contributed £1.8 billion they don't break that down
0:14:39 > 0:14:42per person, only the cost per person. One of the interesting
0:14:42 > 0:14:46things about the research is it measured the monarchy's value as if
0:14:46 > 0:14:50it were an branded business. I don't think that's how the British people
0:14:50 > 0:14:55see the monarchy, I don't think that's why it is so popular as we
0:14:55 > 0:14:59saw there was a tame when it was less popular, after Princess Diana
0:14:59 > 0:15:05died. It is more popular in how people see this country and their
0:15:05 > 0:15:08place in T maybe breaking it down with perhaps slightly spurious
0:15:08 > 0:15:12figures doesn't quite get to why people are still happy to have what
0:15:12 > 0:15:17might be quite an outdated way of running a country in 2017.Are you
0:15:17 > 0:15:21prepared to pay 1p a day, Jacqui?I am. I'm certainly prepared to pay
0:15:21 > 0:15:25for the Queen. I think she does a really difficult job, can you
0:15:25 > 0:15:29imagine all the people she has met and you have to keep on smiling and
0:15:29 > 0:15:34you know -- I just dread to think what will happen if she has to meet
0:15:34 > 0:15:38The Donald.Well, an interesting thought to leave everyone on for
0:15:38 > 0:15:43now. My thanks to Jacqui and Henry. We will be back for another go
0:15:43 > 0:15:49around at 11.30 but coming up next it is time for Meet the Author with
0:15:49 > 0:15:54Chris Bonington.