:00:05. > :00:10.Leveson Inquiry. There has been a clampdown on inappropriate
:00:10. > :00:16.relationships. That is quite shocking. I'm quite dismayed
:00:16. > :00:22.authorities the case. Chronically and fatally damaged place between -
:00:22. > :00:28.- relationships between journalists and the place. The average Editor
:00:28. > :00:33.Spence money every week on taking people out.
:00:33. > :00:37.This week, the UK's most senior police officer, the head of the Met
:00:37. > :00:40.Police, revealed a clampdown on inappropriate relationships with
:00:40. > :00:49.the press following the phone hacking scandal that had forced his
:00:49. > :00:55.predecessor to resign. But the week began with yet more they could --
:00:55. > :00:58.negative allegations about tabloid behaviour. One day 52, the inquiry
:00:58. > :01:05.heard the police investigating a serial killer in Ipswich found
:01:05. > :01:10.their work jeopardised by Boult. This man was an investigator in the
:01:10. > :01:17.Serious Organised Crime Agency, drafted in to keep the suspect
:01:17. > :01:22.under surveillance. On two occasions, there were vehicles that
:01:22. > :01:28.attended a boss. We identified them because they were in positions that
:01:28. > :01:32.we would sit in if we were doing the same job. On the outskirts of
:01:32. > :01:38.Ipswich, if they are trying to lock on to a surveillance team, the best
:01:38. > :01:43.thing to do is for them to finish work and go back to their hotel. It
:01:43. > :01:48.would have been pretty obvious we had stayed well outside Ipswich. If
:01:48. > :01:55.you put a car on the main roundabout, to have a good chance
:01:55. > :02:00.of seeing something. The inquiry heard News of the World hired a
:02:00. > :02:09.former Special Service soldiers to do a job of putting police were at
:02:09. > :02:14.risk. It is historically known that murder suspects before they
:02:14. > :02:24.arrested may return to the scene of the crime and try to dispose of
:02:24. > :02:26.
:02:26. > :02:31.evidence. They may try to move bodies or commit further offences.
:02:31. > :02:35.If they thought they were being followed, they obviously would not
:02:35. > :02:40.know that it was a legitimate police surveillance team or whether
:02:40. > :02:45.it was a newspaper. If they thought they were being followed, they
:02:45. > :02:49.might stop what they were doing or not do what they had planned to do.
:02:49. > :02:55.A phallus of their lives had been weakened by it having to try and
:02:55. > :02:59.avoid other surveillance teams looking for art's -- looking for us,
:02:59. > :03:05.he may have gone and committed further murders while we were
:03:05. > :03:12.dealing with something else. News of the World was not the only
:03:12. > :03:17.Sunday tabloid there. We were then told that the Sunday Mirror had a
:03:17. > :03:23.surveillance team, or some sort of capability which allowed them to
:03:23. > :03:32.pick up the suspect and get to replace what they could be brief
:03:32. > :03:37.him without us being able to follow. It could have been a few cars
:03:37. > :03:44.designed with counters are Valence capabilities. This account was
:03:44. > :03:48.later strenuously denied by the Sunday Mirror. A Daily Express
:03:48. > :03:58.reporter and sit for his trade. What do you think of the evidence
:03:58. > :04:02.
:04:02. > :04:08.you have heard this morning about some newspapers having surveillance
:04:08. > :04:17.teams in the way we hope it? that did happen, that is quite
:04:17. > :04:24.shocking. I'm quite dismayed authorities the case. But I have no
:04:24. > :04:29.reason to believe it is not. It is quite unbelievable. Two other
:04:30. > :04:36.papers were fined for the legs they went to reporting on Christopher
:04:36. > :04:40.Jeffries - an innocent man arrested in a murder investigation. More
:04:40. > :04:43.recently we talk about the murder of Joanna Yeates where the story
:04:43. > :04:53.becomes so important to the public that caution goes to the wind.
:04:53. > :04:55.
:04:55. > :05:05.Would that be unfair? It could appear to be like that. But you do
:05:05. > :05:13.not think it is? Or you are being cautious. That is fair enough. I
:05:13. > :05:18.understand. I think a lot of decisions that have been made over
:05:18. > :05:23.the years, with hindsight, people would have taken a different course.
:05:23. > :05:29.He explained her tricky decisions were made about where to take
:05:29. > :05:33.police officers to lunch. You try and choose the restaurant close to
:05:33. > :05:37.the yard and proportionate to the rank of the officers as a mark of
:05:37. > :05:43.respect to them. They replace is that a very crowded and expensive
:05:43. > :05:49.than you would try to go for the places where the tables were not
:05:49. > :05:54.quite so close together or that might be less busy at lunchtimes.
:05:54. > :06:01.With the chance of being overheard would be minimised. Carefully
:06:01. > :06:06.nurtured relationships had been damaged by the Guardian's
:06:06. > :06:11.revelations of the hacking of Milly Dowler's phone. It had an enormous
:06:11. > :06:20.impact throughout the industry. A potentially fatally damaged
:06:20. > :06:30.relationships between journalists and the police because we do have
:06:30. > :06:36.relationships with trust. I was the news editor on the Milly Dowler
:06:36. > :06:40.occasion and Andrea Perry was the crime reporter who was charged with
:06:40. > :06:48.working on it along with other journalists. We spent an enormous
:06:48. > :06:55.amount of time patiently building up relations with police, meeting
:06:55. > :07:05.them for briefings, having coffee, gaining the trust. We established a
:07:05. > :07:06.
:07:07. > :07:16.good relationship. Milly Dowler's parents gave us a statement on what
:07:17. > :07:17.
:07:17. > :07:27.would have been her birthday. We had photographs of her that be
:07:27. > :07:28.
:07:28. > :07:35.requested. All of that trust over the long period of time was blown
:07:35. > :07:37.out of the water by these allegations. Lord Justice levees
:07:37. > :07:47.and acknowledged his inquiry was already having an impact on the way
:07:47. > :07:49.
:07:49. > :07:59.people behaved. In the old days, if you were invited along to an
:07:59. > :08:00.
:08:00. > :08:04.Everyone is slightly conscious. People are being careful. They
:08:04. > :08:10.don't understand quite what will happen and don't want to be on the
:08:10. > :08:18.wrong side of it. The press had been careful in the past. When Raul
:08:18. > :08:27.Moat was at large in making grave threats. They recoup some tapes he
:08:27. > :08:36.left at a previous hideout. -- re reme tapes. The police
:08:36. > :08:42.have agonised over what to do. We had a media briefing and were asked
:08:42. > :08:50.to sign a disclaimer and go into a room. There was a police Loyer
:08:50. > :08:57.there. Everybody was asked to impose a media blackout. I walked
:08:57. > :09:07.out of that brief in and we called a double page spread instantly.
:09:07. > :09:09.
:09:09. > :09:18.Other newspapers are the same. Coverage changed as a result. No-
:09:18. > :09:23.one preached that embargo. -- of breached. After he had been
:09:23. > :09:29.surrounded and ended his own life, we were able to report the true
:09:29. > :09:35.nature of the threats he had made. But not until afterwards. That
:09:35. > :09:43.shows the level of mutual trust that can exist between the media
:09:43. > :09:47.and police. The atmosphere was to from last summer when the match
:09:47. > :09:54.commissioner does on -- resigned in the wake of the phone hacking
:09:54. > :10:02.allegations. A former Merseyside Chief Constable took over. He told
:10:02. > :10:07.the inquiry that he found that all was not well. He says in a
:10:07. > :10:15.statement that the media relations were not normal or entirely healthy
:10:15. > :10:23.at this stage. Could you explain in what way these were abnormal
:10:23. > :10:30.foreign help be. The phone hacking inquiry had started in 2011 at the
:10:30. > :10:35.beginning of that year to have a deeper investigation. That meant
:10:35. > :10:45.that we were not sure where that investigation would need. Woodenly
:10:45. > :10:47.
:10:47. > :10:52.to one newspaper or to many? They were worried about the
:10:52. > :11:01.relationships of the past. Was it your repression that relations
:11:01. > :11:06.between certain sections of the M Ps, some individuals at the top
:11:06. > :11:16.were overly close? There was the concern that seemed to be in the
:11:16. > :11:18.
:11:18. > :11:28.public mind. Even within the Met Police, people acknowledged it. But
:11:28. > :11:28.
:11:29. > :11:32.in my view, the policy established was in the right spirit. But
:11:32. > :11:42.perhaps the practice of that leg to relationships with the press that
:11:42. > :11:46.were too close. The feedback you are getting, one with the
:11:46. > :11:55.manifestations of the overly close relationship between some members
:11:55. > :11:59.of the M Ps and the press? Social relationships as opposed to
:12:00. > :12:05.professional relationships. The Met Police became wary of anything that
:12:05. > :12:15.could look like socialising. Christmas there were a couple of
:12:15. > :12:23.
:12:23. > :12:28.events. We always meet in a pub and they invite senior members of the
:12:28. > :12:35.various organisations. We tried to maintain some normality and a
:12:35. > :12:40.social are met to the relationship but keep it on a proper footing. It
:12:40. > :12:43.has been difficult to draw than wine given that we do want to
:12:43. > :12:51.maintain a good professional relationship but we don't would be
:12:51. > :12:55.criticised for being too close. said in certain areas, the lines
:12:55. > :13:04.needed to be drawn more clearly. There should be no naming the
:13:04. > :13:11.suspect by police or the press. It is intolerable. It is improper
:13:12. > :13:17.legally and it is often wrong. barrister quoted from his witness
:13:17. > :13:20.statements and the inquiry heard that things at the Met had changed.
:13:20. > :13:26.All members of the management board are required to keep a record of
:13:26. > :13:30.all contact they have with the media. We will not tolerate secret
:13:30. > :13:40.conversations. Meetings should no longer be enhanced by hospitality
:13:40. > :13:41.
:13:41. > :13:48.He wanted to change the way the press and the police dealt with
:13:48. > :13:55.each other. He hinted that some on the media side were being too
:13:56. > :14:02.reticent. When I said good evening he did not rock at me. He spent the
:14:02. > :14:11.next 20 minutes not looking at me at the same table. Eventually he
:14:11. > :14:16.stood up to get a newspaper. Justin Penrose, the Sunday Mirror Times
:14:16. > :14:21.reporter, gave his opinion on counter surveillance techniques
:14:21. > :14:25.during the Ipswich murders investigation. Do you know whether
:14:26. > :14:32.anyone involved with its Sunday Mirror acted in relation to this
:14:32. > :14:40.story or was a private investigator? No. Any one with
:14:40. > :14:44.special forces experience? INAUDIBLE:. Was there any counter
:14:44. > :14:54.surveillance technique involved when Mr Stevens was driven to the
:14:54. > :14:58.
:14:58. > :15:01.car park to give the interview? almost laughed out loud INAUDIBLE:.
:15:01. > :15:09.At first the Mirror's representative did not get much to
:15:09. > :15:17.be hearing. A Sunday Mirror said Valence team was put on to the
:15:17. > :15:24.police who were in turn surveying Mr Stevens. The key was no
:15:24. > :15:28.surveillance team. The evidence of Mr Harris was not sourced about
:15:28. > :15:38.something said to him during the course of a briefing on either
:15:38. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:45.Tuesday or Wednesday. If you want to do something, by all means do,
:15:45. > :15:51.but I think that to start to received submissions at this stage
:15:51. > :15:55.on the evidence I have heard, will take a great deal of time.
:15:55. > :16:02.barrister was later allowed to contradict those claims in more
:16:03. > :16:07.detail. Reporters giving evidence here see that tighter rules on what
:16:08. > :16:15.the police can say in that the papers, and in turn the public,
:16:15. > :16:21.will not have access to the truth. The editor of the Ekho explained.
:16:21. > :16:25.The chief constable has given guidelines which will be sent to
:16:25. > :16:31.every police officer. There have been told they cannot speak to the
:16:31. > :16:40.media without prior permission from the Press Office. When we asked why
:16:40. > :16:45.these guidelines were created it was said they were tightening up
:16:45. > :16:51.due to the Leveson Inquiry. seems the culture at local papers
:16:51. > :16:57.was rather different. Last week in preparation for coming here I
:16:57. > :17:07.looked at how much we spend in one year on entertaining people. This
:17:07. > :17:07.
:17:07. > :17:15.took into account editors and probably 58 journalists. The
:17:15. > :17:21.calculation I came up with was the average reporter, editor spent on
:17:21. > :17:28.average 71p per week on taking people out. It is not something
:17:28. > :17:32.that is in our culture and has not been for a very long time. Tales of
:17:32. > :17:36.officers' meeting reporters in expensive restaurants did not seem
:17:36. > :17:41.to apply outside London. This chief constable said he had never
:17:41. > :17:49.accepted hospitality from the media. It is a professional relationship
:17:49. > :17:55.based upon long-term understanding of what is going on. It functions
:17:55. > :18:00.very smoothly without the need for any artificial creation of
:18:00. > :18:07.relationships. That did not mean that no-one spoke to the media
:18:07. > :18:12.without permission. We are losing 2,500 posts over the next couple of
:18:12. > :18:16.years. That has made it to some difficult decisions and I am not
:18:16. > :18:24.surprised that some people feel they want to take some of those
:18:25. > :18:31.issues to the media. How do you know about the leaks? Have you been
:18:31. > :18:41.able to track particular stories? am particularly thinking of, the
:18:41. > :18:46.person in question appeared on local television. On day 54, an
:18:46. > :18:51.unhappy Justice Leveson. Last week he said there appeared to be
:18:51. > :18:55.evidence of leaks from the enquiry and asked everyone to sign a
:18:55. > :19:00.declaration saying that they understood the need for
:19:00. > :19:08.confidentiality and had not been leaking information. The newspaper
:19:08. > :19:18.groups did not all do as they were told. The lines of my requirement
:19:18. > :19:20.
:19:20. > :19:28.that participants provided the new declarations - I have received
:19:28. > :19:37.information from: Bristow and from one of the newspaper called put his
:19:37. > :19:42.opponents. Another newspaper participant said they would not be
:19:42. > :19:47.providing these declarations prior to the deadline of 4pm today at on
:19:47. > :19:57.the basis that to those from whom they are to be sought are busy
:19:57. > :19:58.
:19:58. > :20:08.people. I find that explanation unacceptable. We are all busy
:20:08. > :20:15.people. The editor of the Times was also frustrated. The Department of
:20:15. > :20:25.Public Affairs. I think they are est Anne Frank. They quite often
:20:25. > :20:29.
:20:29. > :20:36.give a partial picture. -- less than frank. They put out a press
:20:36. > :20:42.released tomb' weeks ago about someone convicted of assault. The
:20:42. > :20:49.metropolitan press release simply said APEC has been convicted of
:20:49. > :20:54.assault and will be sentenced at a later date. What it did not say was
:20:54. > :21:01.that he had head-butted a 14-year- old boy. What they said was not
:21:01. > :21:07.misleading but it was not the full picture. He was not convinced by an
:21:07. > :21:14.idea set out by Justice Leveson of keeping notes of meetings with
:21:15. > :21:24.reporters. They will not find themselves up for promotion. They
:21:25. > :21:31.
:21:31. > :21:37.will be sidelined. In my experience of the politics of policing, there
:21:37. > :21:42.is a lot of back-stabbing and backbiting. The Chief Constable of
:21:42. > :21:47.Strathclyde police said there was no evidence of extensive bribery.
:21:47. > :21:54.have no doubt there are individuals in my organisation receiving money
:21:54. > :21:57.from various people. I am not saying newspapers, but very his
:21:57. > :22:07.people looking for the sort of information we have just been
:22:07. > :22:14.discussing. That is inevitable. Chief Constable of South Wales
:22:14. > :22:19.Police had his doubts that his source's involvement was involved
:22:19. > :22:29.in ATV programme. We have engaged with some programmes where we
:22:29. > :22:32.
:22:32. > :22:38.probably wish we didn't. A popular show which continues to be shown on
:22:38. > :22:45.different satellite channels. Some of the behaviour you see on that
:22:45. > :22:51.you would not want reflected into the wider community. It is the
:22:51. > :22:57.number of years since the show came to South Wales police force a some
:22:57. > :23:01.of theirs instances are not now representative. The inquiry has
:23:02. > :23:06.heard of growing mutual suspicion between the police and the press.