:00:02. > :00:05.officers told the inquiry about the difficulties they faced dealing
:00:05. > :00:12.with the media during high-profile cases.
:00:12. > :00:16.Ross Hawkins reports. My team found them very aggressive
:00:16. > :00:22.towards us. She received over 160 telephone calls and text messages
:00:22. > :00:32.from the media. It certainly hindered the inquiry to find and
:00:32. > :00:35.
:00:35. > :00:39.When one crime grabs the public attention and the press pack
:00:39. > :00:44.descends, how dot police cope? This week, the inquiry's heard what it's
:00:44. > :00:50.like for officers who have to manage the media, even as they're
:00:50. > :00:55.working to catch a killer. And on day 55, reminder that there's
:00:56. > :01:02.nothing new about that challenge. Peter Sutcliff was convicted for
:01:02. > :01:06.murdering 13 women and attempting to murder seven others in 1981.
:01:06. > :01:10.This witness' statement said even then, the national press in pursuit
:01:11. > :01:16.of the story of the Yorkshire Ripper... Rolled into Leeds and
:01:16. > :01:21.Bradford with cheque books to lead the national and international
:01:21. > :01:28.scrum for an exclusive at any price. There was no accountability then. I
:01:28. > :01:38.think high profile incidents more recently in Cumbria have shown a
:01:38. > :01:44.similar drive by national and international media, both print and
:01:44. > :01:51.broadcasting, to grab whatever they can and then disappear again, pay
:01:51. > :01:54.for it, if necessary. Those recent incidents included Derek Bird's
:01:54. > :01:58.killings, the Taxi Driver who shot dead 12 people and injured 11
:01:58. > :02:08.others in 2010. The local press had one approach to reporting the
:02:08. > :02:14.consequences of his actions. didn't want to spend a lot of time
:02:14. > :02:18.harassing victims, families, hammering on doors, looking for the
:02:18. > :02:21.screaming sensational headlines. As I've said before, I know it's
:02:21. > :02:24.repeating myself, but we have to live with these people and we
:02:24. > :02:29.didn't want to cause further distress. National reporters though
:02:29. > :02:34.behaved rather differently she said and the reputations of even papers
:02:34. > :02:39.like hers had suffered from the bad publicity created at this inquiry.
:02:39. > :02:47.We've had, I've been watching the Leveson Inquiry, I know how you
:02:47. > :02:53.people work. Now, the stain from what has happened to trigger this
:02:53. > :02:58.inquiry and a number of reports tends to spread across all sections
:02:59. > :03:03.of the media. This was the chief press officer and chief constable
:03:03. > :03:06.who had to deal with the Derek Bird murders and the reporters on the
:03:06. > :03:10.story. They said some victim's relatives learned what had happened,
:03:11. > :03:16.not from the police, but from the media. Some people were being
:03:16. > :03:24.approached bit press before they'd been told by the police that their
:03:24. > :03:28.next of kin had been involved. that's correct. Did you ever get to
:03:28. > :03:32.the bottom of how that was, how that came to be? The really
:03:32. > :03:35.difficult thing for us through all of this, in regard to trying to
:03:35. > :03:38.represent the families, and I think if you put yourself in that
:03:38. > :03:42.position, when they're contacted by a member of the media, whilst for
:03:42. > :03:47.us it might seem logical to us, what organisation they're from and
:03:47. > :03:51.what their name is, the families just did not have that. And so,
:03:51. > :03:57.when we spoke to the families, they said a member of the press, but
:03:57. > :04:01.they weren't able to identify to us who that member was. If I may
:04:01. > :04:04.assist, some of it was around, this wasn't the first critical incident
:04:04. > :04:09.that had happened in that part of the county. There was actually a
:04:09. > :04:12.funeral that day, when it happened. The national media were already
:04:12. > :04:16.there. Rolling news programmes are taking footage of a scene,
:04:16. > :04:21.particularly one of the first scenes outside the taxi rank, where
:04:21. > :04:26.there is a body covered and members of the family could identify who it
:04:26. > :04:31.was from that. And handling reporters from national papers
:04:31. > :04:37.wasn't easy. I think we found, at times, and particularly my team
:04:37. > :04:43.found them very aggressive towards us. They found them very difficult
:04:43. > :04:46.to please and it means that once you came back to them with some
:04:46. > :04:50.answers, that wasn't sufficient, there were other answers. At times,
:04:50. > :04:55.when they were dealing with them at press conferences, they found that
:04:55. > :04:58.they were put into difficult situations where they had 20
:04:58. > :05:02.journalists sort of shouting and requesting at them. They did find
:05:02. > :05:06.that difficult. Grieving families felt harassed by journalists and
:05:06. > :05:12.camera crews outside their homes. Police asked the media to back away,
:05:12. > :05:18.but they didn't comply, she said. As for the press regulator...
:05:18. > :05:23.response did you get from the Press Complaints Commission? At that time,
:05:23. > :05:27.no response. The Press Complaints Commission were in contact with us.
:05:27. > :05:33.The Press Complaints Commission were asking us that we ask people
:05:33. > :05:40.to ring them with issues, but again... Who should be ringing the
:05:40. > :05:45.PCC with issues? The families. families? A clearly interested Lord
:05:45. > :05:50.Justice leave son asked to see e- mails to the PCC from the time.
:05:50. > :05:58.think the overwhelming feel of the communities, certainly the people I
:05:59. > :06:04.spoke to and elected leaders and local members of the church was
:06:04. > :06:08.thiseninger and -- anger and dismay at the way the communities had been
:06:08. > :06:13.portrayed, but more particularly, the families and those involved in
:06:13. > :06:17.this incident were treated. Craig Mackie became the Deputy
:06:17. > :06:22.Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. He said it was considering
:06:22. > :06:27.new media rules that would require officers to make a note of the fact
:06:27. > :06:30.of every meeting they have with journalists and for members of the
:06:30. > :06:35.met's management board it make those records available to the
:06:35. > :06:37.public online. On day 56, the impact the press can have on
:06:37. > :06:41.investigations themselves. The Surrey Police tried to find out
:06:41. > :06:49.what had happened to Milly Dowler, the press were, in the words of
:06:49. > :06:53.this police officer's evidence "mischievious". The media were at
:06:54. > :06:58.times exploring hypotheses and seeking to develop them and test
:06:58. > :07:03.them in a public environment, when in fact, there was very little fact
:07:03. > :07:09.to support some of those things. quasiinvestigation being conducted
:07:09. > :07:13.in public? Yes and played out in public as well. And seeking to draw
:07:13. > :07:19.police officers into comment on those hypotheses where we were not
:07:19. > :07:23.looking to do so. They were also influential. The fact the Sunday
:07:23. > :07:27.Mirror called the investigation "rudderless" had been a factor,
:07:27. > :07:31.according to one senior policeman, in replacing the senior
:07:31. > :07:36.investigating officer. I think, if there's a perception that the
:07:36. > :07:41.investigation isn't being run in a professional and thorough manner,
:07:41. > :07:44.then I think, I'm talking about reality now as a senior police
:07:44. > :07:48.officer and making judgments, you consider everything that is
:07:48. > :07:52.available to you. You still make a judgment based on a number of
:07:52. > :07:58.factors, primarily in this case it was based on operational factors.
:07:58. > :08:03.To ignore what is being said by the press or by the families or by the
:08:03. > :08:07.public, you can't do that. That's not how reality works. But the
:08:07. > :08:12.judgment of police officers deserved this chief constable
:08:12. > :08:19.suggested, some respect. I trust and rely upon the discretion of my
:08:19. > :08:23.staff. They make life and death decisions day in, day out. If I
:08:23. > :08:30.can't trust them to decide that a cup of coffee or a glass of wine or
:08:30. > :08:35.a pint of beer at the appropriate time is not proplt, then --
:08:35. > :08:40.appropriate, then I've lost the plot. Robert Jay quoted a statement
:08:40. > :08:45.that made this witness' views on leaks equally clearment You say
:08:45. > :08:49.deliberate leaking for money or other motives is extremely rare but
:08:49. > :08:53.simply put is treachery. It was Colin Port's officers who
:08:53. > :08:56.investigated the murder of Joanna Yates. They arrested her landlord.
:08:56. > :09:00.He was villified in the press and he's accused the press of leaking
:09:01. > :09:04.information about him. Not least because the editor of the Daily
:09:04. > :09:09.Mirror told this inquiry the police gave off the record guidance that
:09:09. > :09:14.it was Geoffries who had been taken into kust diz. -- custody. We
:09:14. > :09:19.didn't do it. We don't announce people who have been arrested.
:09:19. > :09:24.They're innocent and we don't do that. There was an inadvertant leak
:09:24. > :09:28.which I talk about in my statement, which was a mistake by some people.
:09:28. > :09:33.It was a genuine error. We sought to address that situation right
:09:34. > :09:38.away with the journalist concerned. We certainly didn't give any off or
:09:38. > :09:43.on the record comment that it was Mr Geoffries, who had been arrested.
:09:43. > :09:49.The only time we did was the inadvertant leaks. Geoffries, who
:09:49. > :09:55.suspected police of leaking information about what he'd given
:09:55. > :10:00.them about what he'd seen, was mistaken. We did not give his
:10:00. > :10:05.identity to anyone. He did say he saw three people. On two occasions
:10:05. > :10:08.that I recall. In his tofdz this inquiry, he said that and I think I
:10:08. > :10:14.quote accurately that he told no more than three people about his
:10:14. > :10:17.sightings. That's incorrect. I completely understand why Mr
:10:17. > :10:22.Geoffries can't recollect that. I've counted eight people,
:10:22. > :10:27.including some people who were paid bit media for information. I've
:10:27. > :10:33.also seen evidence that he told people that they should also tell
:10:33. > :10:35.members of the neighbourhood watch. His recollection is flawed
:10:35. > :10:40.unfortunately. Christopher Geoffries had another complaint,
:10:40. > :10:44.why wasn't his bail lifted with the police confirming he was no longer
:10:45. > :10:49.a suspect for three whole months? The police officer in charge of the
:10:49. > :10:55.investigation explained. There were a pair of trainers, which we found
:10:55. > :11:02.in Mr Geoffries' house which were hidden, under a kitchen unit,
:11:02. > :11:07.behind a kick board. Those trainers had some, had a blood spot on them.
:11:07. > :11:11.That was initially analysed and because of a sensitive forensic
:11:11. > :11:16.technique which they had to use evench lay DNA profile was found
:11:16. > :11:20.and Mr Geoffries could be eliminated. When the forensic lines
:11:20. > :11:26.of inquiry were completed he was fully eliminated from the
:11:26. > :11:31.investigation. That's when he was Those closest to the victim were
:11:31. > :11:41.the targets of intense media attention. I think a good example
:11:41. > :11:42.
:11:42. > :11:47.of this was Rebecca Scott, who was Joanna iates Best friend. She
:11:47. > :11:50.contacted us, she had received over 160 calls and texts from the media.
:11:50. > :11:54.The media were camped outside her home address and Hampshire Police
:11:54. > :12:00.had intervened because they were threatening to arrest some of the
:12:00. > :12:03.media for harassment. Police were told this was a crime that was
:12:04. > :12:09.selling newspapers, reporters were hungry for exclusives, keen to keep
:12:09. > :12:14.it on the front page. One phone with a possible story about an
:12:14. > :12:19.overhaul of the inquiry team and Lord Justice Leveson symphathised
:12:19. > :12:22.with the police. All this must put an intolerable pressure on any
:12:22. > :12:28.senior investigating officer, and indeed on those who are supporting
:12:28. > :12:32.the senior investigating officer who, after all, is trying to detect
:12:32. > :12:39.a murder and unlike the television, it can't necessarily be done within
:12:40. > :12:43.the hour? On day 57 an admission, Mark Duggan was shot dead by police
:12:43. > :12:46.last summer. The Independent Police Complaints Commission wrongly told
:12:46. > :12:51.a reporter there had been an exchange of fire, in fact, there
:12:51. > :12:54.was no evidence that Duggan had fired at police. Days of rioting
:12:54. > :12:59.followed a protest about the shooting.
:12:59. > :13:03.One of my press officers indicated to a journalist as a result of a
:13:03. > :13:07.question that it appeared that there had been an exchange of fire.
:13:07. > :13:10.He shouldn't have done that, he did it verbly, he shouldn't have done
:13:10. > :13:14.it and once we realised that had happened and it was definitely
:13:14. > :13:19.incorrect, we put out an apology and we have apologised for it I
:13:19. > :13:22.think on almost a weekly basis for the last period. It was a very
:13:22. > :13:26.serious error, it shouldn't have happened. But for all that, she
:13:26. > :13:30.said the media needed to consider their own behaviour. The bit that I
:13:30. > :13:34.do feel the press need to reflect on is that they ask us the
:13:34. > :13:37.questions, they want the the information and they are very quick
:13:37. > :13:42.to criticise us when we put out the wrong information. They're very,
:13:42. > :13:45.very unforgiving when we get it wrong. So, it is a challenge. I am
:13:45. > :13:49.not complaining about that, it's part of our business. It's the
:13:49. > :13:54.nature of the business we work in. But it does make life quite a
:13:54. > :13:57.challenge. Lord Justice Leveson himself was also clearly aware the
:13:57. > :14:01.press hadn't agreed with everything that he had had to say. I wasn't
:14:01. > :14:06.suggesting that I was spending my life criticising the press, but
:14:06. > :14:10.rather being criticised by the press. I am not complaining, but
:14:10. > :14:13.neither am I making a point. The Chief Constable in charge of
:14:13. > :14:17.communications policy at the Association of Chief Police
:14:17. > :14:21.Officers thought journalists just wanted too much, too fast. Many
:14:21. > :14:26.journalists are under intense pressure and with now with websites
:14:26. > :14:31.for all newspapers, this desire to get some news and get it now is
:14:31. > :14:35.probably more intense than ever. And as a result, this sort of
:14:35. > :14:39.pursuit of one must have the story, I don't believe is in the public
:14:39. > :14:46.interest. It's not in the public interest for them to attempt to
:14:46. > :14:51.investigate the case on our behalf. ACPO's President had his own run-
:14:51. > :14:57.ins with the papers. A case came up where a story was, in a way rather
:14:57. > :15:01.silly, a defamatory story, I invented my own uniform and
:15:01. > :15:07.designed a cap, badge in my house or something, which followed from
:15:07. > :15:13.the riots where my profile by definition was fairly high and
:15:13. > :15:17.attempts to give a sensible and factual response to that particular
:15:17. > :15:21.paper to resolve the issue which would have resulted in a story not
:15:21. > :15:26.being printed because it was entirely invented, took us nowhere
:15:26. > :15:30.and, sadly, advice from the Press Complaints Commission was not that
:15:30. > :15:34.powerful. Throughout this inquiry there's been a tension. If the
:15:34. > :15:38.police get too close to the press they can be accused of
:15:38. > :15:43.inappropriate behaviour. If they keep their distance they can fail
:15:43. > :15:48.to communicate. So this public voice of policing had a warning
:15:48. > :15:56.against retreating too far. I think it is inevitable in the short-term
:15:56. > :16:00.that it will become journey - phrpbists -- journalists may find
:16:00. > :16:07.it difficult as we become too defensive. I think we need to guard
:16:07. > :16:16.against that. I think we do have to be confident in our own skins that
:16:16. > :16:21.we can maintain professional relations -- relationships with
:16:21. > :16:26.journalists and not impaoupb our integrity. It also in the routine
:16:26. > :16:29.of our working day would stilt a conversation. Now chief kablt of
:16:29. > :16:33.the police -- Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern
:16:33. > :16:36.Ireland was in charge of Leicestershire Police when the
:16:36. > :16:40.media were reporting on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
:16:40. > :16:42.whose parents live in the area. One journalist has suggested the
:16:42. > :16:46.Leicestershire force could have briefed reporters the Portuguese
:16:46. > :16:51.police had misinterpreted forensic tests wrongly implicating
:16:51. > :16:55.Madeleine's parents. The Chief Constable, though, disagreed.
:16:55. > :16:59.for me and the group running the investigation, which was a UK
:16:59. > :17:03.effort, was very much respect for the privacy of the Portuguese
:17:03. > :17:05.investigation. We were not in the lead in relation to their strategy,
:17:06. > :17:09.we were merely dealing with inquiries at the request of the
:17:09. > :17:13.Portuguese and managing the very real issues of the local dimension
:17:13. > :17:16.of media handling, so we were not in control of the detail or the
:17:16. > :17:20.facts or where that was going. I still convinced we did the right
:17:20. > :17:22.thing and I think integrity and confidence, particularly with the
:17:22. > :17:26.Portuguese featured highly in our decision-making at that time.
:17:26. > :17:31.was so concerned about the coverage of the McCann case he wrote to
:17:31. > :17:35.newspaper editors. If I recall, there was one complaint made to the
:17:35. > :17:38.Press Complaints Commission, which resulted in noting of the file, but
:17:39. > :17:43.the speculation did continue, in spite of the first letter and I
:17:43. > :17:46.felt obliged to write the second letter again appealing to the
:17:46. > :17:50.better nature of the media and to understand the complexity of this
:17:50. > :17:56.situation, so I think the fact I wrote two letters is indicative of
:17:56. > :18:01.itself of the concerns of the UK effort to try and find...
:18:01. > :18:07.question was what was the reaction to these letters? Not hugely
:18:07. > :18:11.positive. Because the speculation continued. I think in this
:18:11. > :18:14.particular case, Sir, the speculation, if it had been the UK
:18:14. > :18:18.court, may well have undermined the fairness of subsequent proceedings
:18:18. > :18:21.against whoever was charged with that offence, and secondly, it
:18:21. > :18:25.certainly hindered the inquiries to find and trace Madeleine, simply
:18:25. > :18:29.because of the reaction that came from the media speculation.
:18:29. > :18:33.On day 58 the total poelt cost -- potential cost of the police
:18:33. > :18:38.hacking inquiries was revealed. Two former and serving senior officers
:18:38. > :18:44.had said this deputy mayor had questioned the resources put into
:18:44. > :18:47.operation Wheating and he had, as he explained. As we moved into
:18:47. > :18:54.early 2011, and the investigation was launched, and it became
:18:54. > :19:00.apparent that it was going to be a large drain on resources, from what
:19:00. > :19:06.is a valuable and finite resource, our detective capability, I was
:19:06. > :19:11.keen to ensure that they were not undertaking this investigation to
:19:11. > :19:17.the detriment of, for instance, rape victims. The forecast cost for
:19:17. > :19:23.wheating and related is about �40 million. Now, our annual spend on
:19:23. > :19:30.child abuse in London is only 36, we have, I think, at the moment
:19:30. > :19:37.about 150 individuals engaged on these various investigations. We
:19:37. > :19:42.only have 27 engaged on tracking down paedophiles. My natural desire
:19:42. > :19:48.is obviously to see a reduction in harm in London, to those vulnerable
:19:49. > :19:53.individuals, and that was merely what I was expressing to both the
:19:53. > :19:57.commissioner. When it emerged Kit Malthouse had raised those concerns
:19:57. > :20:01.with police one Labour MP called on him to resign but the deputy mayor,
:20:01. > :20:06.who has responsibility for policing, hadn't expected this row.
:20:06. > :20:11.notion that these questions are not legit mats one -- legitimate ones
:20:11. > :20:15.to ask, when we only have 32,000 officers, I have to say I was
:20:15. > :20:20.surprised at the controversy that seemed to cause. We are all here in
:20:20. > :20:23.part because of the Met's past decisions, not to allocate more of
:20:23. > :20:27.those resources to phone hacking. Now it's being asked whether