:00:04. > :00:13.Secretary Jeremy Hunt to defend his handling of News Corporation's bid
:00:14. > :00:17.
:00:17. > :00:27.I had heard directly and indirectly from colleagues that there had been
:00:27. > :00:32.
:00:32. > :00:36.I decided that it would not be A boyish new leader, an image
:00:36. > :00:42.carefully nurtured. A prime minister before long whose media
:00:42. > :00:46.handling was dubbed spin and who spent a decade in Downing Street.
:00:46. > :00:53.An essential witness then for an inquiry examining the relationship
:00:53. > :01:01.between the press and politicians. And on day 79, one who started with
:01:01. > :01:05.an admission regarding politicians' You feel this pretty intense power
:01:05. > :01:14.and the need to try and deal with that. I'm just being open about
:01:14. > :01:17.that. And open about the fact that frankly I decided as a political
:01:17. > :01:21.leader, and this was a strategic decision, that I was going to
:01:21. > :01:27.manage that and not confront it. course Tony Blair accepted MPs
:01:27. > :01:31.courted the media. He certainly did, not least when he famously flew
:01:31. > :01:35.halfway around the world to talk to Rupert Murdoch's executives just a
:01:35. > :01:38.year into his leadership of the Labour Party. Political leaders
:01:38. > :01:43.like myself have to be in a position where you're managing
:01:43. > :01:49.these major forces within the media, because if you fail to manage it
:01:49. > :01:54.and you fall out with them, the consequences, as I will say a bit
:01:54. > :01:59.later, are harsh, let us say. once he had power, a huge majority,
:01:59. > :02:06.a vast mandate, why didn't he act then to deal with those forces?
:02:06. > :02:10.It's not that I was afraid of taking them on but I knew that if I
:02:10. > :02:14.did, you have to be very clear about this, and that was the debate
:02:14. > :02:18.I had with Alastair and others within government all the way
:02:18. > :02:21.through, if you take this on do not think for a single moment that you
:02:21. > :02:30.are not in a long protracted battle that will shove everything else to
:02:30. > :02:36.one side. Underlying under so of this was one relationship with one
:02:36. > :02:46.man -- underlying so many of this. Were favours sought or offered with
:02:46. > :02:55.
:02:55. > :03:01.Rupert Murdoch? There were never any issues expressed or implied. We
:03:01. > :03:03.decided more often against than in favour of their lobbying. But the
:03:03. > :03:07.bulk of the conversations about politics and Europe was a very
:03:07. > :03:13.large part of that, because we had a serious problem, because he had
:03:13. > :03:18.very strong views on Europe and so did a I. Tony Blair's relationship
:03:18. > :03:24.with Rebekah Brooks also grew closer -- so did I. He said he said
:03:24. > :03:32.to her a sympathetic message when she resigned in the wake of the
:03:32. > :03:36.phone hacking scandal -- he sent her a sympathetic message. This was
:03:36. > :03:41.a former prime minister who knew exactly how to conduct himself. It
:03:41. > :03:46.was for the most part a fairly relaxed display. Some people,
:03:46. > :03:50.though, will never be convinced by anything Tony Blair has to say.
:03:50. > :03:56.Piers Morgan paid him off for the Iraq war three months after they
:03:56. > :04:00.invaded Iraq, they held up the Iraq bank for �20 billion. He was then
:04:00. > :04:05.paid $6 million every year and still is from JP Morgan six months
:04:05. > :04:10.after he left office. The man is a war criminal! After security guards
:04:10. > :04:15.put an end to that speech, Tony Blair said that those claims were
:04:15. > :04:18.completely and totally untrue. sorry for that, Mr Blair. Lord
:04:19. > :04:27.Justice Leveson apologised. Although that protester was
:04:27. > :04:31.released without charge by police, a judge later referred to the
:04:31. > :04:34.Director of Public Prosecutions the incident. Handling the press is
:04:34. > :04:42.rather less straightforward for Tony Blair and he suggested people
:04:42. > :04:46.should not play politics. It is very important that David Cameron
:04:46. > :04:51.is not a left in a position where he is politically exposed on this,
:04:51. > :04:55.because that is not fair to him. This will be extremely difficult.
:04:55. > :05:00.But on balance I think it can be done and it should be done now.
:05:00. > :05:04.Tony Blair had certainly felt pretty exposed when trying to
:05:04. > :05:10.handle stories about his wife. not saying all these stories
:05:11. > :05:15.written about her couldn't have been written, but I think when you
:05:15. > :05:20.add up that number of legal interventions, I think if we were
:05:20. > :05:27.operating in a proper system after intervention Number Ten, you would
:05:27. > :05:31.expect someone to say, "Hang on, are we getting this right?" when
:05:31. > :05:35.you come to over-thirties it indicates a pattern. And when
:05:35. > :05:39.confronted with a target sometimes the press went too far. What I
:05:39. > :05:43.think is wrong is when a section of the media, and again I emphasise it
:05:43. > :05:48.is a section, powerful people within these possessions would say
:05:48. > :05:53.right, we're going to go after that person. What will happen then is
:05:53. > :05:59.they go after you and it is full on, full frontal, day-in, day-out. That
:05:59. > :06:03.is not journalism in my view. That's an abuse of power actually.
:06:03. > :06:08.Lord Justice Leveson had some ideas about how to handle that abuse, he
:06:08. > :06:14.said "Any regulator must be independent and had to work quickly
:06:14. > :06:19.for anyone, including those who could not afford to sue". On Day At
:06:19. > :06:25.of the inqu of the inquirst Cabinet ministers to in pier with
:06:25. > :06:33.noticeably tighter security -- to appear. What matters is getting
:06:33. > :06:37.that balance right, between looking at complaints received with not
:06:37. > :06:40.hampering that important fundamental principle of freedom.
:06:40. > :06:46.The education secretary, once a journalist both at the BBC and on
:06:46. > :06:50.Rupert Murdoch's Times, was very clear indeed about his views on
:06:50. > :06:54.Murdoch's. I think he is one of the most impressive as significant
:06:54. > :06:58.figures of the last 50 years. were plenty of occasions when he
:06:58. > :07:06.had dinner with Rupert Murdoch and his executives but Murdoch had not
:07:06. > :07:13.lobbied him. You never discussed the BBC licence fee, Ofcom, or
:07:13. > :07:18.policy interests with Rupert Murdoch? That is correct. This was
:07:18. > :07:24.evidenced with an unusually long view. News and comment have been
:07:24. > :07:29.fused in newspapers ever since the first public prints appeared. We
:07:29. > :07:32.have been spin-doctored ever since the Roman Republic. When you have
:07:32. > :07:35.politicians in the early 18th century are employing people like
:07:35. > :07:39.Daniel Defoe or Jonathan Swift publishing pamphlets putting
:07:39. > :07:47.forward a particular gloss on their fashion.
:07:47. > :07:55.fashion. Unusual to hear a witness taking on. Lord Justice Leveson's
:07:55. > :07:59.thinking. -- that was spin to a fashion. We all collectively
:07:59. > :08:08.benefit from a feeling that we should not be inhibited in stating
:08:08. > :08:13.our views, on whatever platform, in matters that engage us. Mr Goh move,
:08:13. > :08:23.I do not need to be told about the importance of free speech -- Mr
:08:23. > :08:27.
:08:27. > :08:37.Michael does. I really don't. -- Michael Gove. But I am concerned
:08:37. > :08:47.that the effect of what you say might be that you are in fact
:08:47. > :08:48.
:08:48. > :08:56.taking a few bad behaviour, which everybody so far in this inquiry
:08:56. > :09:02.has said is an acceptable, albeit not necessarily criminal, has to be
:09:02. > :09:09.accepted because of the right of free speech -- is unacceptable. Is
:09:09. > :09:14.that right? I don't think any of us can accept that necessarily but
:09:14. > :09:18.there are a variety of sections. There is social ostracism,
:09:18. > :09:24.disapproval, there is the penalty someone pays who chooses to use a
:09:24. > :09:27.commercial outlet to publish that is inappropriate or distasteful.
:09:27. > :09:32.But by definition free-speech doesn't mean anything unless some
:09:32. > :09:38.people are going to be offended some of the time. On day 81
:09:38. > :09:41.politician with a very different view on Rupert Murdoch -- a
:09:41. > :09:48.politician. The Liberal Democrat business secretary who secretly
:09:48. > :09:56.recorded this. I pick my fights with Rupert Murdoch! Those comments
:09:57. > :10:00.saw him stripped of responsibility of the Competition Commission.
:10:00. > :10:04.Jeremy Hunt took over. Vince Cable did not deny he held views on
:10:04. > :10:09.Rupert Murdoch and that it did not mean he could not make an
:10:09. > :10:12.independent decision. I thought that was disproportionate political
:10:12. > :10:18.influence and I thought leaders of major parties had got too close to
:10:18. > :10:24.them. But at the same time I never had any experiences myself with the
:10:24. > :10:29.News Corporation newspapers. I have some recognition that the economic
:10:29. > :10:34.importance of their companies. That is partly w is partly w
:10:34. > :10:37.expressed any views before I became the minister of the department. To
:10:37. > :10:41.go back to your central point, this was not a factor in my decision.
:10:41. > :10:51.Jeremy Hunt's special adviser exchanged hundreds of messages with
:10:51. > :10:57.News Corp's lobbyist, Fred Michel. Cable's adviser Giles Wilkes
:10:57. > :11:04.rebuffed requests for meetings. He had a much more limited brief.
:11:04. > :11:09.if any were his responsibilities in relation to the BSkyB bid?
:11:09. > :11:19.didn't have any. I certainly didn't give him any responsibilities.
:11:19. > :11:24.Vince Cable was so careful but how did he end up declaring war? He
:11:24. > :11:28.said there was a near riot after the day of the exposition and then
:11:28. > :11:34.in came the undercover reporters. was extremely tense and emotional
:11:34. > :11:43.and the two women who I thought were constituents coming to see me
:11:43. > :11:53.I have tried to explain here, I am normally very calm in dealing with
:11:53. > :11:53.
:11:53. > :11:58.He was also angry about what he believed were attempts by the News
:11:58. > :12:04.Corporation's lobbyist, Fred Michel, to put pressure on his lead Dem
:12:04. > :12:14.colleagues. I had heard directly and indirectly from colleagues that
:12:14. > :12:18.made the wrong decision, from the company's point of you, my party
:12:18. > :12:27.would be somebody used the phrase "Have done over" In the News
:12:27. > :12:32.International press. -- used the phrase "Done over". The baled
:12:33. > :12:37.threats that your party would be done over in the news International
:12:37. > :12:42.Press, are you able to identify who made that threat? -- a veiled
:12:42. > :12:48.threats. I believe it was in conversations with Mr Michel but I
:12:48. > :12:51.cannot be certain. Vince Cable made it clear he would
:12:51. > :12:55.not name the person who told him about those failed threads. He did
:12:55. > :13:03.not have records of the meeting. He could not save when it took place.
:13:03. > :13:07.The allegation got to the heart of supposed used by a news
:13:07. > :13:12.organisation of its editorial might to achieve commercial. But while
:13:12. > :13:15.Vince Cable's words had plenty of Business
:13:15. > :13:20.Business Secretary had to accept that his own record of Commons
:13:20. > :13:28.could hardly have been a ignored by David Cameron. I understand that
:13:28. > :13:32.dissection of bias and a bit difficult for me to continue. I
:13:32. > :13:39.understand that. It does not mean to say that I would have been
:13:39. > :13:44.biased. But nonetheless there was a perception issue. It is 40 years
:13:44. > :13:54.since Ken Clarke got his first job since
:13:54. > :14:04.since the decades had passed, the The power of the press is greater
:14:04. > :14:05.
:14:05. > :14:09.press are mainly interested on exerting influence on non media
:14:09. > :14:15.type political issues. They can drive a weak government like a
:14:15. > :14:18.flock of sheep before them sometimes in some areas. Still, it
:14:18. > :14:23.is not quite there were not problems with journalists'
:14:23. > :14:28.behaviour back in the day. When I was appointed to get -- to the
:14:28. > :14:31.Exchequer, I had to move my bank account because I heard that
:14:31. > :14:35.journalists were trying to bribe the staff where I had my bank
:14:35. > :14:42.account. He suggested standards had changed since his time at the
:14:42. > :14:47.Treasury. Since the last 15 years, after 1997, it has become
:14:47. > :14:57.positively part of the system that once the government decides what it
:14:57. > :15:01.
:15:01. > :15:06.is going to do it starts Prix briefing it all out. That has
:15:06. > :15:10.steadily grown. Margaret Thatcher did not read a newspaper from one
:15:10. > :15:15.week to the next, he said, but an obsession with the press had
:15:15. > :15:20.developed since her time, not least with criminal justice. It prisms
:15:20. > :15:23.are so overcrowded and so difficult to do anything there. We are
:15:23. > :15:28.steadily toughening up an underclass of criminals who keep
:15:28. > :15:35.going around and around in the cycle. I blame the newspapers for
:15:35. > :15:43.that. If they were different we would probably have 20,000 fewer
:15:43. > :15:47.prisoners in prisons. That is a way of illustrating my opinion.
:15:47. > :15:53.Journalists were getting sensitive, he said. But this Minister does not
:15:53. > :16:00.get the best right up himself. There is no newspaper that will
:16:01. > :16:06.report my views on Europe correctly and objectively. The answer in my
:16:06. > :16:11.opinion is to go on the radio and television. Stop reading newspapers.
:16:11. > :16:15.Day 82 was in many ways Judgement Day for the Culture Secretary whose
:16:15. > :16:23.special adviser exchange hundreds of messages which that News Corp
:16:23. > :16:27.resign. The minister admitted how he felt about the BSkyB bid. He
:16:27. > :16:31.sent a memo to the Prime Minister saying that blocking it would leave
:16:31. > :16:38.the media sector suffering for years. I was sympathetic of the bid.
:16:38. > :16:41.I hesitate slightly on the word, supportive. Apart from informing
:16:41. > :16:45.the Prime Minister of my views I was not going out and doing
:16:45. > :16:50.anything about it. But he was about to be called on to do a great deal
:16:50. > :16:55.more. Just before Christmas 2010 the news broke that the bid had
:16:55. > :17:00.been cleared by the European competition authorities. He was
:17:00. > :17:09.sent a text messages. Congratulations on Brussels. Just
:17:09. > :17:14.Ofcom to go. Vince Cable had been recorded. Jeremy Hunt and Murdoch
:17:14. > :17:19.spoke. Then the Culture Secretary text did George Osborne. Could we
:17:19. > :17:25.chat about the bid? I am worried we are going to screw this up. Jeremy.
:17:25. > :17:30.At the same time he sent another text, just been called by James
:17:30. > :17:35.Murdoch. His lawyers are meeting and they say it calls into the
:17:35. > :17:39.legitimacy of the whole process. Just before five that afternoon
:17:39. > :17:42.George Osborne replied saying, I hope you like the solution. The
:17:43. > :17:47.responsibility for the bid will be stripped from Vince Cable and
:17:47. > :17:54.transferred to Jeremy Hunt himself. It begs his question. Vince Cable
:17:54. > :18:00.had just lost the rolls through the appearance of bias in one direction.
:18:00. > :18:09.Doesn't it emerged that you should not have acquired the role for an
:18:09. > :18:15.equal and opposite reason? No. As I understand it, the point about a
:18:15. > :18:20.quasi judicial role is that -- not that you acquire has responsibility
:18:20. > :18:24.for a quasi judicial decision with your brain wiped claim. The point
:18:24. > :18:34.about the quasi-judicial role is that you set aside any views you
:18:34. > :18:37.
:18:37. > :18:40.have and you decide objectively on the basis of, in this case, media.
:18:40. > :18:46.And that for Jeremy Hunt was the central point. Yes, of course he
:18:46. > :18:50.had had views on News Corp and on the possible deal with BSkyB. But
:18:50. > :18:55.when he took responsibility for a quasi judicial decision he said
:18:55. > :19:00.those views aside and relied instead on lawyers and regulators
:19:00. > :19:04.and reduce, he argued, his political discretion at 20. That
:19:04. > :19:10.did not stop News Corp's lobbyist friend Michelle trying to convince
:19:10. > :19:14.the minister and the adviser, complimenting him on his
:19:14. > :19:18.performance in the Commons and on the television. Jeremy Hunt said he
:19:18. > :19:27.resisted what he called pushy and cheeky approaches. A one is
:19:27. > :19:31.beginning to cite the discount it. But at Jeremy Hunt's adviser, Adam
:19:31. > :19:38.Smith, received many more messages. The minister suggested he had been
:19:38. > :19:46.warned it down. My feeling is that Adam Smith is the most decent,
:19:46. > :19:51.straight, honourable person that one could imagine. Even he was not
:19:51. > :19:56.able to maintain the impartiality that he needed to because of the
:19:56. > :19:59.volume of communication. I think that was where things went wrong as
:19:59. > :20:04.far as his communication was concerned. Not that Jeremy Hunt was
:20:04. > :20:08.beyond informal messages himself. While the bid process was going on
:20:08. > :20:14.he texting James Murdoch to congratulate him on a promotion.
:20:14. > :20:21.am sure you will miss Ofcom in New York. This has nothing to do with
:20:21. > :20:25.the bid. I had heard that he had been promoted to a post in New York
:20:25. > :20:29.and that he would be moving from London to New York. I was just
:20:29. > :20:34.sending him a congratulations text. He conceded it would have been
:20:34. > :20:38.better to have avoided text messages. It was language in Adam
:20:38. > :20:45.Smith's communication with the lobbyist at Jeremy Hunt deemed
:20:45. > :20:49.inappropriate. He was trying to deal with a stakeholder. I don't
:20:49. > :20:53.believe he did give them some stand to their advantage. Still, it was
:20:53. > :21:01.Adam Smith that resigned and not the minister. I do think about my
:21:01. > :21:09.own position. I had conducted the bid scrupulously fairly throughout
:21:09. > :21:15.their restaged. I believed it was possible to demonstrate that. --
:21:15. > :21:20.throughout every stage. I decided it would not be appropriate for me
:21:20. > :21:24.to go. It was with a heavy heart that I felt we had no choice but to
:21:24. > :21:29.accept Adam Smith's resignation. Jeremy Hunt's own departure was up
:21:29. > :21:33.on the cards. Very soon after his evidence finished Downing Street
:21:33. > :21:37.said that they thought he dealt with it properly. They said a
:21:37. > :21:42.ministerial watch her would not be called in to look at the case. It