Episode 24

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:00:08. > :00:14.Leveson Inquiry. Several senior politicians gave evidence.

:00:14. > :00:19.And there was no question of us getting permission. His papers

:00:19. > :00:29.would not support the Conservative government. We are definitely in

:00:29. > :00:34.

:00:34. > :00:39.They had to come. The men from Downing Street. For those who held

:00:39. > :00:43.the highest office in the past and the current resident here. And to

:00:43. > :00:49.give an inquiry looking at the press and politicians at a beer

:00:49. > :00:55.from Number Ten. The first this week are a former Prime Minister

:00:55. > :01:02.who felt ill-treated by the newspapers well enough this and

:01:02. > :01:08.some of the witnesses here. On day 83, they were the target for a man

:01:08. > :01:13.who had come to set the record straight one. Firstly, his views

:01:13. > :01:17.and Rebekah Brooks. She said her paper published this story after

:01:17. > :01:22.learning Gordon Brown's son had cystic fibrosis from the father of

:01:22. > :01:31.a boy who also had the condition. The former PM said that source

:01:31. > :01:39.could only have been a middleman. The letter makes it clear that they

:01:39. > :01:45.have apologised to us because it was unauthorised information given

:01:45. > :01:50.by a working member of the NHS stock. It allowed The Sun to

:01:50. > :01:53.publish the story. He denied Rebekah Brooks's claimed that he

:01:54. > :02:00.and his wife it given permission for the story to be published.

:02:00. > :02:08.There was no question of us giving permission for this. I ask you if

:02:08. > :02:13.any mother or father who is presented with a choice as to

:02:13. > :02:20.whether their four-month-old son's medical condition should be

:02:20. > :02:23.broadcast on the front page of a tabloid newspaper, I don't think

:02:23. > :02:31.there's any parents in the land he would have made the choice we are

:02:31. > :02:36.told we made. Why then did they continue to have meals with Rebekah

:02:36. > :02:41.Brooks? Why did Sarah Brown arrange a 40th birthday party for her, I

:02:41. > :02:45.tend to her wedding and said her personal notes and letters? Serra

:02:45. > :02:50.is one of the most forgiving people I know. I think she finds the good

:02:50. > :02:56.in everyone. Gordon Brown said engaging with the media was part of

:02:56. > :03:06.the job. Then he moved on to Rupert Murdoch. He told the inquiry that

:03:06. > :03:08.

:03:08. > :03:13.Gordon Brown called -- that he was called. Your company has declared

:03:13. > :03:18.war on my government. We have no alternative but to make war on your

:03:18. > :03:23.company. The then Prime Minister he added had not been in a very

:03:23. > :03:33.balanced state of mind. Now Gordon Brown is in the seat and gave a

:03:33. > :03:34.

:03:35. > :03:40.different account. This call did not happen. The threat was not made.

:03:40. > :03:44.Nine and I find it shocking that we should get to this situation some

:03:44. > :03:54.time later when there is no evidence of the school having

:03:54. > :03:57.

:03:57. > :04:07.happened. There were other allegations about Gordon Brown's

:04:07. > :04:10.special advisers in government. Were they not systematic

:04:10. > :04:20.perpetrators of Sellotape anonymous briefings with your instigation and

:04:20. > :04:23.

:04:23. > :04:30.knowledge? Not at all. I operated under these rules that would work

:04:30. > :04:39.to the head of communications. an way your aides involved in using

:04:39. > :04:46.the media to attempt to force Mr Blair's resignation? -- were your

:04:46. > :04:51.aides involved? I would hope not. Tony Blair did resign in the end.

:04:51. > :04:57.Gordon Brown lost his job after a general election. Now Conservatives

:04:57. > :05:02.occupied Downing Street. As the current Chancellor of the Exchequer

:05:02. > :05:12.explained, they were keen to keep good relations with the Murdochs.

:05:12. > :05:15.

:05:15. > :05:23.He recalled a meeting with Rebekah Brooks. David Cameron and I was

:05:23. > :05:28.seeking to bring the conversation on to state politics. But Rupert

:05:28. > :05:33.Murdoch was more keen to talk about the international economic

:05:33. > :05:38.situation. Coalition government was not without frustrations at that.

:05:38. > :05:44.Vince Cable was stripped of responsibility for deciding whether

:05:45. > :05:50.tainted been with News Corp's bid for BSkyB shares. Within hours of

:05:50. > :05:55.the news breaking, it was decided that Jeremy Hunt would be given the

:05:55. > :06:00.decision. The Chancellor had considered the News Corp bit a

:06:00. > :06:08.political inconvenience. Now he was worried about real political damage.

:06:08. > :06:13.The principal concern in the meetings was that this was not

:06:13. > :06:16.something which would lead the resignation of the Vince Cable. I

:06:17. > :06:25.thought what he had said was wrong but I did not think it merited his

:06:25. > :06:32.resignation. I had concerns about the impact of such a resignation on

:06:32. > :06:42.the Coalition. It was a senior civil servant's idea to put him in

:06:42. > :06:46.

:06:46. > :06:54.charge. On day 84, a former Prime Minister, unlikely to ever be

:06:54. > :07:01.accused of getting too close to the papers. His evidence included a

:07:01. > :07:06.column in The Sun. He thought Premiers should not spend too long

:07:06. > :07:14.ingratiating themselves with newspaper proprietors. I do not

:07:14. > :07:19.think it is the role of the Prime Minister to court the press. And he

:07:19. > :07:21.was reminded up in during his time and others that he cuts a very

:07:21. > :07:26.different figure from Margaret Thatcher, including the way he was

:07:26. > :07:29.seen by the papers. I did not inherit the naturally close

:07:29. > :07:39.affinity my predecessor had earned over a long period of time with the

:07:39. > :07:44.press. No surprise that the ban had lines rankled. I was much too

:07:44. > :07:54.sensitive about what the press wrote. God knows why I was in

:07:54. > :07:55.

:07:55. > :08:05.retrospect. He came with fresh allegations about a media

:08:05. > :08:09.

:08:09. > :08:14.proprietor who wanted a change in policy. It became apparent in

:08:14. > :08:21.discussion that Mr Murdoch said he did not like a European policies.

:08:21. > :08:26.There was no surprise to me. He wished me to change them. If we

:08:26. > :08:33.could not, his papers could not and would not support the Conservative

:08:33. > :08:38.government. It is not very often someone sits in front of the Prime

:08:38. > :08:45.Minister and says, I would like you to change a policy and if you don't

:08:45. > :08:50.mind organisation, supported. Giving evidence about a discussion

:08:50. > :08:54.with Margaret Thatcher, Rupert Murdoch told the inquiry he never

:08:54. > :08:57.asked a Prime Minister for anything. John Major said he thought Murdoch

:08:57. > :09:04.meant that he never asked for anything to benefit him or his

:09:04. > :09:14.company. On the whole, politicians used to keep quiet about their

:09:14. > :09:14.

:09:14. > :09:20.doubts regarding News International. I think it is right to say that

:09:20. > :09:26.when an organisation like News International has huge power and

:09:26. > :09:30.politicians are reticent about speaking out about some of the

:09:30. > :09:39.practices, they came a moment when I felt it was impossible not to

:09:39. > :09:42.speak out. I knew at that moment that I was crossing the Rubicon.

:09:42. > :09:46.was first an adviser to Gordon Brown and a minister in his

:09:46. > :09:56.government. They will more questions about some of the former

:09:56. > :09:58.

:09:58. > :10:05.PM's other advisers. Charlie left in 1999. One of the reasons was

:10:05. > :10:12.because of his style of operation. I can't pointer direct evidence but

:10:12. > :10:22.he briefed against people in the government. When Damien McBride,

:10:22. > :10:27.

:10:27. > :10:30.when I was a Cabinet minister, I raised a specific concern. It has

:10:30. > :10:35.been his concerns about Rupert Murdoch that made reason headlines,

:10:35. > :10:42.but he shied away from repeating than in front of the man himself.

:10:42. > :10:48.recall a relatively short conversation with Rupert Murdoch. I

:10:48. > :10:53.believe they should have raised the issue of phone hacking with him.

:10:53. > :11:03.There is little danger of News International darting Ed Miliband's

:11:03. > :11:03.

:11:03. > :11:06.news. He suggested he wanted new rules on media ownership. News

:11:06. > :11:12.International's power and lack of accountability and arrogance came

:11:12. > :11:22.from its share of the newspaper market. At the very starting point,

:11:22. > :11:25.

:11:25. > :11:33.IIA don't believe that one person should continue to control 37% or

:11:33. > :11:39.34% of the newspaper market. That is too much. A politician keen to

:11:39. > :11:44.stress he had not got into close to those papers. Nick Clegg recalled a

:11:44. > :11:53.meal with an interesting guest and a disappointing seating plan.

:11:53. > :11:56.at the very end of the table, with the children sit. I only had very

:11:57. > :12:05.fleeting interaction with Rupert Murdoch before the dinner and as I

:12:05. > :12:09.said goodbye at the end. I felt I was an observer. News Corp made its

:12:09. > :12:13.presence felt elsewhere. Vince Cable had told the inquiry he had

:12:13. > :12:17.heard from colleagues that if he made the wrong decision on the

:12:17. > :12:27.BSkyB bid, his party would be done over in the Rupert Murdoch's

:12:27. > :12:30.

:12:30. > :12:38.It was brought to my attention by a friend of mine, a Lipton MP, that

:12:38. > :12:46.he had been told that it would be good for the Liberal Democrats to

:12:46. > :12:54.the open to unfavourable treatment from the Murdoch press. A Liberal

:12:54. > :12:59.Democrat MP. Norman was agitated by that. Since we had not seen

:12:59. > :13:05.favourable treatment anyway, I did not think it was a credible threat.

:13:05. > :13:10.Up the road, the drama continued. The Lib Dems abstained on a vote on

:13:10. > :13:15.whether Jeremy Hunt should be investigated regarding the

:13:15. > :13:19.ministerial code. At the inquiry, Nick Clegg offered his Cabinet

:13:19. > :13:25.colleague qualified support. On the specific point about how he handled

:13:25. > :13:31.the bid to make sure that he was insulated from accusations of

:13:31. > :13:36.allowing personal bias to drive the process, he gave four convincing

:13:36. > :13:39.accounts of this inquiry. Deputy Prime Minister will be one

:13:39. > :13:44.of the politicians who has to decide what to do when the report

:13:44. > :13:50.is complete. He suggested the law should be changed and that media

:13:50. > :13:54.companies that proved too big white face investigation. Scotland's

:13:54. > :14:00.First Minister told the inquiry he had not been a phone hacking victim

:14:00. > :14:08.that he had been a target of intrusion. I believe my bank

:14:09. > :14:14.account was accessed by the Observer newspaper some time ago in

:14:14. > :14:17.1999. My reason for believing that was I was informed by a former

:14:17. > :14:23.journalist from the newspaper who gave me an exact account of what

:14:23. > :14:33.was in my bank account, which could only be known to somebody for had

:14:33. > :14:33.

:14:33. > :14:40.seen it. For example, I bawled sunk Woylies for my at the time for

:14:40. > :14:48.young nieces in a toyshop on the high street. -- I've bought some

:14:48. > :14:58.Tories. This journalist told me this caused great anticipation and

:14:58. > :15:03.

:15:03. > :15:10.hope. -- I bought some toys. It would be unlikely that it would be

:15:10. > :15:14.anything else but the point of I am making is that they had details

:15:14. > :15:20.which could only have been known by somebody who had full access to my

:15:20. > :15:29.bank account at that stage. observers's publisher said they

:15:29. > :15:33.have no evidence to substantiate it. And a successful politician who

:15:33. > :15:38.faced the opposition of the Scottish Sun had its whole hearted

:15:38. > :15:42.support at last year's contest. He also never repaired and James

:15:42. > :15:47.Murdoch and had been willing to make a case for the BSkyB bid to

:15:47. > :15:51.the Westminster government. I was prepared to argue that the jobs and

:15:51. > :15:56.investment should be considered as a valid issue to be considered. I

:15:56. > :16:01.was prepared to do that whenever the time was appropriate. I was in

:16:02. > :16:09.favour of what benefited the Scottish economy. Having a

:16:09. > :16:13.responsibility for broadcasting policy or the plurality in the

:16:13. > :16:17.press but I have responsibility for investment in Scotland. He backed

:16:17. > :16:24.the bid because it was in Scotland's economic interests, he

:16:24. > :16:29.said, but there was no deal in the legal language. He got good press

:16:29. > :16:34.in turn for his political stance. Did you ever discuss with the

:16:34. > :16:44.Murdoch's support by their newspapers in Scotland for their

:16:44. > :16:47.

:16:47. > :16:55.party? I found with the Murdochs that if you do that, go to the

:16:55. > :17:01.editors. That is what they say. They have a right to say that.

:17:01. > :17:05.Therefore, that is what I have done. To only be clear on how many

:17:05. > :17:14.occasions you have raised the issue with Rupert Murdoch and James

:17:14. > :17:24.Murdoch? I would not explicitly raised it at meetings because they

:17:24. > :17:28.

:17:28. > :17:34.would obviously go to their editors about Rupert Murdoch's practice. I

:17:34. > :17:38.did go to the editor sometimes, sometimes successfully, sometimes

:17:38. > :17:42.not. On day 86, the Prime Minister under oath. The evidence I shall

:17:42. > :17:46.give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

:17:46. > :17:51.Long criticised for giving too close to News International but

:17:51. > :17:55.with a point to make. I wanted to win over newspapers and other

:17:55. > :17:59.journalists, editors, proprietors, broadcasters. I worked hard at that

:17:59. > :18:07.because I wanted to communicate what my leadership could bring to

:18:07. > :18:11.the country. I made those arguments. But I did not do it on the basis of

:18:11. > :18:17.saying, also a -- you will support me and I will give you a better

:18:17. > :18:21.time on this policy or that policy. He clearly won over Rebekah Brooks.

:18:21. > :18:26.They were neighbours and died together. He had known her husband

:18:26. > :18:35.for years. If there was any doubt about their friendship, there was a

:18:35. > :18:42.text sent Rebekah Brooks just before David Cameron's party

:18:42. > :18:51.conference that year. -- they dined with each other. I am rooting for

:18:51. > :18:57.you tomorrow, not just as a friend but professionally we are in this

:18:57. > :19:04.together. Just the phrase, professionally, we are in this

:19:04. > :19:08.together, what was your understanding of that, that is

:19:08. > :19:12.about the Sun having made the decision to back the Conservatives.

:19:12. > :19:16.The Sun wanted to make sure it was helping the Conservative Party

:19:16. > :19:22.could its best foot forward. Whether for country suppers or not,

:19:22. > :19:28.they saw a lot of each other. you are at your constituency at

:19:28. > :19:37.weekends, the juicy her every weekend or most weekends? -- did

:19:37. > :19:47.you see her. Not every weekend. Most weekends? After lunch, a bit

:19:47. > :19:52.more detail. A Mrs Cameron makes a better at detail -- detailed diary

:19:52. > :19:56.than I do wish she thinks we saw then about every six weeks. Helping

:19:56. > :20:00.David Cameron answer difficult questions had been the job of the

:20:00. > :20:04.Tories head of communications, former News of the World and at

:20:04. > :20:10.Andy Coulson. David Cameron said he I had asked about phone hacking

:20:10. > :20:18.before hiring him. He had asked. remember sitting and getting that

:20:18. > :20:23.assurance. But they do seem to be some differences but they may well

:20:23. > :20:28.be compatible in the way I suggested. Also under scrutiny,

:20:28. > :20:32.David Cameron's decision to have Jeremy Hunt decide on the BSkyB bid,

:20:32. > :20:37.despite receiving a memo from him back in that bit. A decision that

:20:37. > :20:42.was taken quickly as Vince Cable's war on Murdoch's colleagues were

:20:42. > :20:46.causing a political storm. It was not some rushed, botched political

:20:46. > :20:50.decision. If anyone had told me that Jeremy Hunt could not do the

:20:50. > :20:57.job, and would not have given him the job. He did not recall the memo

:20:57. > :21:01.on the day of the appointment. Lewis said it would not have

:21:01. > :21:11.changed the legal adviser brooding look -- move even if it had been

:21:11. > :21:15.

:21:15. > :21:18.considered. -- the lawyers said. an individual suffers press

:21:18. > :21:21.intrusion, has an inaccurate article written about them, have

:21:21. > :21:25.their life turned around, all these things that have happened, it is

:21:25. > :21:32.worth their while going to this regulator, however established.

:21:32. > :21:36.They know they will get a front page apology, that is what does not

:21:36. > :21:39.happen at the moment. Like so many witnesses we have heard, the Prime

:21:39. > :21:46.Minister had an idea of the solution he wanted that was not