0:00:47 > 0:00:49Coming up in the East Midlands: growing anger over the Child
0:00:49 > 0:00:53Support Agency. Communities Minister, Andrew
0:00:53 > 0:00:56Stunnell, is a Lib Dem. But that doesn't cut any ice with a Lib Dem
0:00:56 > 0:01:06council leader in our region. He'll be telling us why he's urging him
0:01:06 > 0:01:06
0:01:06 > 0:38:01Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2215 seconds
0:38:01 > 0:38:03Hello. Coming up in the East Midlands:
0:38:03 > 0:38:07Communities Minister, Andrew Stunnell, is a Lib Dem. But that
0:38:07 > 0:38:11doesn't cut any ice with a Lib Dem council leader in our region. He
0:38:11 > 0:38:14will be telling us why he is urging him to quit.
0:38:14 > 0:38:20First, the Child Support Agency says absent parents in the East
0:38:20 > 0:38:23Midlands owe a staggering �200 million in maintenance payments.
0:38:23 > 0:38:28Now the Government wants to replace the agency with a service that
0:38:29 > 0:38:33parents would have to pay towards. In a moment, we will be asking our
0:38:33 > 0:38:39MPs how that is likely to work. First, our Political Editor on the
0:38:39 > 0:38:44human cost of those statistics. The joy of a new baby. The outcome
0:38:44 > 0:38:47of a loving relationship. But what happens when the child's parents go
0:38:47 > 0:38:57their separate ways? This nursery rhyme can have a less than happy
0:38:57 > 0:39:11
0:39:11 > 0:39:18ending with the CSA. This woman has battled to get money from her
0:39:18 > 0:39:21former partner. When things get really sticky, eventually money can
0:39:21 > 0:39:30be taken at source through their employer. But when they are self-
0:39:30 > 0:39:35employed, that isn't the case. has one of 90,000 cases in our
0:39:35 > 0:39:39region being handled by the CSA. my particular case, it is quite
0:39:39 > 0:39:42ineffective. They share my frustrations. He refuses to answer
0:39:42 > 0:39:45telephone calls or answer my letters. This has gone to court
0:39:45 > 0:39:51several times and he has not appeared. We have a happy home, but
0:39:51 > 0:39:56it is not fair that ex-partners can just decide if they are not going
0:39:56 > 0:40:01to pay when they are self-employed. It was back in 1993 that John
0:40:01 > 0:40:04Major's government introduced the CSA, the Child Support Agency. Its
0:40:04 > 0:40:07aim was to pursue parents, mainly fathers, who fail to support their
0:40:07 > 0:40:11children financially. But almost from the start it was accused of
0:40:11 > 0:40:14hounding father who were already paying up. And those who were
0:40:14 > 0:40:23failing to help mothers like Jedda from Nottingham. Her ex-husband
0:40:23 > 0:40:30refused to pay anything, as she told the Politics Show. The honours
0:40:30 > 0:40:35was left on mothers -- the onus was left on mothers to find absinthe
0:40:35 > 0:40:40father's. Soon, only parents who have been victims of domestic
0:40:40 > 0:40:48violence will be able to get free access to the CSA. Might case has
0:40:48 > 0:40:51been with seven officers. -- my case. Brendan Price, a former
0:40:51 > 0:40:55Ofsted inspector, says he has been a victim of the Child Support
0:40:55 > 0:41:01Agency twice over. When he broke up with his ex-wife, he gave her all
0:41:01 > 0:41:08the proceeds from the sale of their home. This is his story. I had
0:41:08 > 0:41:12signed over my house to my ex-wife in court, but that was not
0:41:12 > 0:41:15recognised by the CSA. Brendan then had a child with another woman. He
0:41:15 > 0:41:20says ever since that relationship broke up, he has paid the agreed
0:41:20 > 0:41:25maintenance, but the CSA keep insisting he still owes them.
0:41:25 > 0:41:30of the blue in 2009, I got an assessment from the CSA. It took me
0:41:30 > 0:41:38six months to find out what was happening. They claimed that I was
0:41:38 > 0:41:42due them �4,500 of back payments. I did not. They just call after easy
0:41:42 > 0:41:48targets and do their job ineffectively. Obviously, I am
0:41:48 > 0:41:54really angry with them. According to the CSA, the total of child
0:41:54 > 0:42:04maintenance payments now all it stands at �211 million in a region
0:42:04 > 0:42:09
0:42:09 > 0:42:15alone. Now there is a new approach. Parents must agree over the
0:42:15 > 0:42:18payments, but there are charges for the service. Gingerbread, a charity
0:42:18 > 0:42:24that supports single parents, says making people pay will cause
0:42:24 > 0:42:29significant problems for those least able to help themselves.
0:42:29 > 0:42:39Repaying payment -- paying parent could be paying up to 20% of their
0:42:39 > 0:42:41
0:42:41 > 0:42:49income. -- 20% of the money for their children towards the
0:42:49 > 0:42:52government. This is taking money away from their children. Natalie
0:42:52 > 0:42:55Johnson from Kirkby in Ashfield reads to one of her two young
0:42:55 > 0:42:58children. Her attempt to agree maintenance payments with her ex-
0:42:58 > 0:43:00partner collapsed when he had a baby by another relationship. She
0:43:00 > 0:43:03is appalled at the coalition's plans to introduce fees. The money
0:43:03 > 0:43:10that my children are entitled to is needed for her fuel for the family
0:43:10 > 0:43:17car, their school uniform, their lunch, their bus fare. There are a
0:43:17 > 0:43:25lot of things that parents need and the need this money to pay for.
0:43:25 > 0:43:30This woman says that the new system will not help when former partners
0:43:30 > 0:43:35are self-employed. Again, this is taking money away from the children
0:43:35 > 0:43:40at the end of the day. Be will be a few years yet before the new
0:43:40 > 0:43:45service finds his feet. Improved and more efficient is the hope of
0:43:45 > 0:43:55the Government. It may need some early successes to avoid the new
0:43:55 > 0:43:55
0:43:55 > 0:43:58service from being just as discredited as the CSA.
0:43:58 > 0:44:01We should point out that we asked the minister responsible, Maria
0:44:01 > 0:44:04Miller, to contribute to our film and our studio discussion. But we
0:44:04 > 0:44:07were told she wasn't available for either. Welcome to two of our MPs
0:44:07 > 0:44:10who are always happy to come on the Politics Show, Mark Spencer and
0:44:10 > 0:44:14Graham Allen. Mark, you are alerted us to these cases in the film we
0:44:14 > 0:44:18have just seen. Let's deal with the first situation. The father of her
0:44:18 > 0:44:25children has got out of paying the maintenance by saying he is self-
0:44:25 > 0:44:29employed. The new plans will take some people out of the system so
0:44:29 > 0:44:34that those officers that our present can spend more time
0:44:34 > 0:44:44concentrating on these complicated cases. Is hoping enough? We have
0:44:44 > 0:44:46seen how much is owed. It is a shocking statistics. Officers
0:44:47 > 0:44:51needed time to going to the detail and really grabs some of these
0:44:51 > 0:44:57cases by the scruff of the next. At the moment, they are inundated with
0:44:57 > 0:45:02cases which are fairly simple, so they cannot concentrate on the
0:45:02 > 0:45:11complicated ones. This is a legal loophole that needs plugging,
0:45:11 > 0:45:15surely? I think self-employed ones are very difficult to kneel down.
0:45:15 > 0:45:18It needs stronger action from some of these officers to be the looking
0:45:18 > 0:45:23to their accounts and actually pin them down to the amount they should
0:45:23 > 0:45:30be pm. Why didn't Labour take stronger action in the first place?
0:45:30 > 0:45:34This has been a dog's breakfast for the last 25 years. You're dealing
0:45:34 > 0:45:38with cases which are completely individual. Everyone has a separate
0:45:38 > 0:45:42case. One of the things we need to do is to look at our young people
0:45:42 > 0:45:46and make sure we give them the skills to maintain relationships
0:45:46 > 0:45:51and understand that things are not always hunky-dory forever. They
0:45:51 > 0:45:55have to balance what it is like to have a child, what it is like to
0:45:55 > 0:46:02draw family. Many people going to relationships on the wrong basis.
0:46:02 > 0:46:08Then the victims are the children of the future. It is always, always
0:46:08 > 0:46:15the child who suffers. Do you accept that the CSA has did change?
0:46:15 > 0:46:25Reform is required. The old CSA actually does not exist any more.
0:46:25 > 0:46:26
0:46:26 > 0:46:30It has a new name. It has got slightly better. My main caseload
0:46:30 > 0:46:34is child support cases, it is marginally better than it used to
0:46:34 > 0:46:37be. I think we should keep a reformed version of this because
0:46:38 > 0:46:43what the Government are proposing now is that people should be
0:46:43 > 0:46:47charged in order to use the services of the CSA or its
0:46:47 > 0:46:51equivalent. The people who need this most in my constituency are
0:46:51 > 0:46:57mainly single mothers on poorer in comes. I have worked out that it is
0:46:57 > 0:47:06at buyout 5,000 mothers who have been abandoned by their partners
0:47:06 > 0:47:13and they need help. The need -- to ask them to pay money upfront and
0:47:13 > 0:47:17then pay commission to an agency is not a good idea. There is a young
0:47:17 > 0:47:23lady in my constituency who needs help at that precise moment and
0:47:23 > 0:47:28will not get their help, but she will be landed with a bill. At the
0:47:28 > 0:47:32moment, they're getting nothing. Dad has clear off and is paying
0:47:32 > 0:47:36nothing. That is because those officers are chasing the easy
0:47:36 > 0:47:45targets. Politicians have not really helped. We have complained
0:47:45 > 0:47:52and complained. In order to placate politicians, they have chased the
0:47:52 > 0:47:59easy targets to raise their income. More children will now be put into
0:47:59 > 0:48:06poverty. We're trying to encourage the easier cases to come to their
0:48:06 > 0:48:09own arrangements. We want them to be taken out of the system. Those
0:48:09 > 0:48:13who are left were trying to abuse the way out of the system and not
0:48:13 > 0:48:21contribute to their kids, it will give officers time to concentrate
0:48:21 > 0:48:26on those cases and make sure that these people pay. Unfortunately,
0:48:26 > 0:48:32separation is often acrimonious. The child will be the victim. These
0:48:32 > 0:48:36are people who are restrained and have fallen out big time. I think,
0:48:36 > 0:48:40to imagine that people can sit down and cook up a nice little deal will
0:48:41 > 0:48:45not happen. They have a choice. Pay these very high fees or take a case
0:48:45 > 0:48:55to court. People are my constituency dawn of the way around
0:48:55 > 0:48:56
0:48:56 > 0:49:01the court. We are talking about people in difficult situations.
0:49:01 > 0:49:09When you become a parent, that is the most important responsibility
0:49:09 > 0:49:14you will ever have. Weaken fall-out over the CD player, but sorting out
0:49:14 > 0:49:18the care of your children. -- we can fall out. That should be the
0:49:18 > 0:49:24priority. Sort that out if you can. If you cannot, the Government will
0:49:24 > 0:49:27step into her out. You have to read each a lot of people that if you
0:49:27 > 0:49:37create a life, you're responsible for that life for the rest of your
0:49:37 > 0:49:37
0:49:37 > 0:49:44own life. There are also disputes over contact with children. A lot
0:49:44 > 0:49:48of fathers believe that a recent review was an opportunity to get
0:49:48 > 0:49:54justice. But the review has not turned out that way. As a
0:49:54 > 0:49:58politician, these particular cases scare me to death. You're coming to
0:49:58 > 0:50:02them as an amateur. New dawn of the individuals and you have to take
0:50:02 > 0:50:07the guidance of the professionals that advising you and have come to
0:50:07 > 0:50:11a decision by the king at the detail. The last thing I ever want
0:50:11 > 0:50:16to do is to insist that someone should have access and then that
0:50:16 > 0:50:21goes horribly wrong after I have stepped in. These are complicated
0:50:21 > 0:50:28cases. It is about time the legal establishment came to the party
0:50:28 > 0:50:33here. Taking six months to deal with a case, that is a long period
0:50:33 > 0:50:37of the life of a child. We have to make sure that children are not the
0:50:37 > 0:50:39victims of this process. Let's briefly talk about another
0:50:39 > 0:50:42issue. You chair the political and constitutional reform select
0:50:42 > 0:50:51committee. This weekend, you are calling for it to be an offence to
0:50:51 > 0:50:56fail to register to vote. Government has changed registration
0:50:56 > 0:51:01from individuals to head of house sold filling out the form. Everyone
0:51:01 > 0:51:06believes that is a good idea. But we are suggesting a way to move
0:51:06 > 0:51:10this forwards with all-party consent. If you want to get rid of
0:51:10 > 0:51:18me or Mark, you can only do that to the ballot box. You can only do
0:51:18 > 0:51:25that if you have registered. The right to participate in our
0:51:25 > 0:51:29democracy is fundamental in a democracy. You cannot complain
0:51:30 > 0:51:39unless you vote, at the end of the day. Make sure you are on the
0:51:39 > 0:51:43electoral roll and you can cast your vote. Phil -- thank you.
0:51:43 > 0:51:46We know there are tensions within the coalition. But the Lib Dem
0:51:46 > 0:51:49leader on Broxtowe District Council, David Watts, is taking things to a
0:51:49 > 0:51:52new level. He is so unhappy with Lib Dem Communities Minister,
0:51:53 > 0:51:56Andrew Stunnell, that he is calling on him to quit. In a moment, he
0:51:56 > 0:51:59will be telling me why he has decided to voice his concerns on
0:51:59 > 0:52:06the Politics Show. First, a glimpse of Mr Stunnell in action during a
0:52:06 > 0:52:11debate on the green belt. The draft national planning policy
0:52:11 > 0:52:14framework set out the Government's proposed policies on planning and
0:52:14 > 0:52:20retains the key protections for the green belt. I want to emphasise
0:52:20 > 0:52:26that. And to say to the Honourable Gentleman speaking from the
0:52:26 > 0:52:35opposition front bench that I preferred his choice of poetry to
0:52:35 > 0:52:39his choice of lawyer in his description of what we have done.
0:52:39 > 0:52:46You say the minister's performance in that debate was the last straw.
0:52:46 > 0:52:50Why? We have had 18 months of rubbish coming editor of the
0:52:50 > 0:52:53department. Part of his job has got to be to make sure that what we're
0:52:53 > 0:52:59getting from local government is quality. It is not happening for
0:52:59 > 0:53:07start he was trying to inject some humour into proceedings, surely?
0:53:07 > 0:53:11Humour is great in debate. But he has had a string of MPs asking for
0:53:11 > 0:53:16assurances about what will be happening about green belt. He
0:53:16 > 0:53:22didn't answer a single one of them. Is he not taking it seriously
0:53:22 > 0:53:27enough? He doesn't realise the extent of the problem. Has he
0:53:27 > 0:53:31replied to your letters? personally. We have also been in
0:53:31 > 0:53:36touch. He has told us that he notes this sincere strength of your
0:53:36 > 0:53:41feeling on the issue of the green belt. Does that appease you? Know.
0:53:41 > 0:53:45I am delighted he notes the strength of feeling from myself and
0:53:45 > 0:53:50other Lib Dem leaders across the country, but that is not doing
0:53:50 > 0:53:54something about it. There are loads of organisations expressing very
0:53:54 > 0:53:58genuine concern about what is going to happen to the green belt with
0:53:58 > 0:54:08the changes that are proposed. is saying that there are worrying
0:54:08 > 0:54:10
0:54:10 > 0:54:14needlessly. Tell us why. We have been asking about the Government
0:54:14 > 0:54:22saying that there will be no change to the loss. Give us evidence to
0:54:22 > 0:54:27the contrary, if the law is staying the same. He says that the
0:54:27 > 0:54:34Government has constantly repeated that they want to protect the green
0:54:34 > 0:54:39belt and he made that point in that debate. We are being pressurised to
0:54:39 > 0:54:44build on the green belt by his department. How prepared are you to
0:54:44 > 0:54:50take this further? I am sure he is a lovely bloke, but he is not doing
0:54:50 > 0:54:56the job. If he improves, I will be delighted. If not, I will continue
0:54:56 > 0:55:00to press for better. What more pressure can you put on him?
0:55:00 > 0:55:10think I have probably done what I can, but I will continue to do it
0:55:10 > 0:55:11
0:55:11 > 0:55:16for. Are you a lone voice, or are there others who agree with you?
0:55:16 > 0:55:25And have had many messages of support. Equally, some have told me
0:55:25 > 0:55:31I am wrong. We are a democratic party. I am not able to name names
0:55:31 > 0:55:39of any of the other supporters, I am afraid. It is not a large grip,
0:55:39 > 0:55:43but a sizable group. You are also unhappy about the �250 million the
0:55:43 > 0:55:48coalition is making available for councils to reinstate a weekly bin
0:55:48 > 0:55:52collections. Are you saying he has got are wrong as well?
0:55:52 > 0:55:58Department has. The talk about localism and say it is up to local
0:55:58 > 0:56:08government to decide what we want, but then say we can only have the
0:56:08 > 0:56:08
0:56:08 > 0:56:14money if we do what they want us to do. Weekly bin collections our way
0:56:14 > 0:56:22down my list of priorities. what about a public? We have had a
0:56:22 > 0:56:27less than five requests in my region to bring back weekly
0:56:27 > 0:56:31collections. They are wasting time and wasting money? We could invest
0:56:31 > 0:56:38in town-centres, child-support, lots of things that are much more
0:56:38 > 0:56:42important than bin collections. Several other senior Lib -- senior
0:56:42 > 0:56:47Lib Dems have spoken out saying that government policy has formed -
0:56:47 > 0:56:56- has failed. I thought the letter in the Guardian was stronger than I
0:56:56 > 0:57:00would have put it. We need to get the deficit under control, but the
0:57:00 > 0:57:05world is changing on an almost hourly basis in terms of finances.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08We cannot just dogmatically say it is deficit reduction and nothing
0:57:08 > 0:57:15else. Everything else that is going on around us has to be taken into
0:57:15 > 0:57:25account as well. I would like to see more investment in people, in
0:57:25 > 0:57:25
0:57:25 > 0:57:30jobs. Do we need an emergency recovery programme? I think we do,
0:57:30 > 0:57:33otherwise we will be the next race. Thank you for joining us.
0:57:33 > 0:57:36Last year, we reported on a controversial proposal to build a
0:57:36 > 0:57:39farm for more than 20,000 pigs near Foston in Derbyshire. This week,
0:57:39 > 0:57:43the proposal was rejected by South Derbyshire District Council after
0:57:43 > 0:57:45opposition from the Health Protection Agency. But the final