:00:22. > :00:26.Here: Can we afford to look after the region's elderly residents?
:00:26. > :00:30.Care homes tell us why they can't make ends meet. And why we may not
:00:30. > :00:40.see so many state of the art affordable homes like these in
:00:40. > :00:40.
:00:40. > :37:48.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2227 seconds
:37:48. > :37:52.Hello and welcome to the part of the programme just for us in the
:37:52. > :37:55.East. This week: The care for the elderly - big business or an
:37:55. > :38:02.essential service? We discover why some homes claim
:38:02. > :38:08.they cannot afford to look after old people. Care homes are
:38:08. > :38:12.providing 24 hour nursing care. There is no profiteering.
:38:12. > :38:20.At a bright future for this prospective tenant, but could
:38:20. > :38:24.developments like these soon be a harder to come by?
:38:24. > :38:29.But first, the number of older people living in the east is set to
:38:29. > :38:33.rise dramatically. The high-profile problems of care whole opera --
:38:33. > :38:37.care home operator Southern Cross have focused attention on the
:38:37. > :38:40.financial problems facing the sector. Crisis talks with landlords
:38:40. > :38:45.and banks have saved off the collapse of the company, which has
:38:45. > :38:48.four months to find a solution to its financial problems. In a
:38:48. > :38:58.statement, the Department of Health, which has been involved in those
:38:58. > :39:03.
:39:03. > :39:07.However, there is still a question mark over the quality of care
:39:07. > :39:12.provided in Southern Cross homes. According to the Care Quality
:39:12. > :39:18.Commission, of the 60 homes in our region run by the company, 22 have
:39:18. > :39:26.failed to meet essential standards of quality and safety. Southern
:39:26. > :39:30.Cross has stressed... But with council budgets being cut and
:39:30. > :39:34.private providers saying there is no profit in the business, just who
:39:34. > :39:39.will be looking after the elderly in the future?
:39:39. > :39:45.There are two things that mum knows for certain. The first one is, no
:39:45. > :39:51.sugar in my tea, dear, and my room is number four. And now she will
:39:51. > :39:57.only know one thing, and that is so sad. This lady's bomb at Phillis
:39:57. > :40:05.will be 94 next month. She has death -- dementia but feels safe
:40:05. > :40:10.and secure after so many years abyss home. But it is closing.
:40:10. > :40:15.Lindsey says finding another home near by which is as good is proving
:40:15. > :40:19.impossible. They have all got waiting lists. We haven't been to
:40:19. > :40:27.one a single home where, even if it was appropriate for mum, they could
:40:27. > :40:34.take her. They are waiting - there are eight people in front. But
:40:34. > :40:37.another one, there were five. company says it is closing this
:40:37. > :40:42.home for several reasons - its ten- year contract with the local
:40:42. > :40:49.council runs out in November, but the rooms here are small and have
:40:49. > :40:53.no on suite facilities, as well. However, residents' relatives are
:40:53. > :40:58.sceptical. They say one of the company's other homes being
:40:58. > :41:02.recommended as an alternative has 55 rooms. Less than half of those
:41:02. > :41:08.are on speed. They feel that the reasons behind this closure are
:41:08. > :41:12.more financial. They say that the location is a prime site for
:41:12. > :41:16.redevelopment. The building is owned by the Sanctuary group which
:41:16. > :41:21.says there has been no decision about the future of the site but
:41:21. > :41:25.that it will be used to benefit the community. But that does not help
:41:25. > :41:30.Lyndsey. She faces a dilemma of keeping her mum close by and
:41:30. > :41:35.compromising on care, or moving her to another home which would mean n
:41:35. > :41:41.90 mile round trip to visit. It is along journey and it is also the
:41:41. > :41:47.price of the diesel and penned -- petrol. We are pensioners. It would
:41:47. > :41:53.mean once a week visiting whereas, now, if I have half-an-hour, I can
:41:53. > :41:57.pop up and see mum. What you call in on your way back from shopping.
:41:57. > :42:03.If more care homes disappear, this could be a reality for many others,
:42:03. > :42:07.leaving residents more isolated from families. At this nursing home,
:42:07. > :42:13.residents are largely unaware of the financial pressures but across
:42:13. > :42:18.the region, homeowners are more read. Council cuts have meant that
:42:18. > :42:23.fees paid to providers have been cut. National Insurance has gone up,
:42:23. > :42:29.the minimum wage has gone up, insurance is a huge problem. You
:42:29. > :42:34.can imagine how much it costs to heat and light the people we have.
:42:34. > :42:38.We said but we reject the reduction, we could not live with it. There
:42:38. > :42:44.will be huge problems in the care sector. They came back and said but
:42:44. > :42:48.that was the way it was. This is not the only voice of concern. This
:42:48. > :42:53.man heads up a national Nursing Home Association and says the days
:42:53. > :42:58.of care being a money spinner have long gone. Day today, care homes
:42:58. > :43:04.are providing, at �70 a night, 24 hour nursing care. There is no
:43:04. > :43:08.profiteering in that. You need to ask why people have stopped
:43:09. > :43:14.providing. The reason is that they cannot do it any more at the fees
:43:14. > :43:21.that they want it done at. A bit is predicted that in 25 years from now,
:43:21. > :43:30.the number of over 60 fires in the East will have risen by 750,000.
:43:30. > :43:34.The Avon 90s will make up one in 10 of them. -- the over the 90s.
:43:34. > :43:39.see it happening now and even more in the feature that people will not
:43:39. > :43:44.be assessed as needing residential care because it is too expensive.
:43:44. > :43:48.People will not take funding in their own homes because it will
:43:48. > :43:53.ruin their businesses. The warnings are that the care home sector is
:43:53. > :43:57.reaching crisis point - that, like the economy, after a period of boom
:43:57. > :44:03.at the industry is now heading for bust.
:44:03. > :44:06.Joining me is Baroness Angela Smith, former Labour MP for Basildon,
:44:06. > :44:12.Colin Noble, a Conservative councillor who is responsible for
:44:12. > :44:19.adult services for Suffolk Community Council. And from Norwich,
:44:19. > :44:25.we have a Conservative MP Chloe Smith. Let me start with you. We
:44:25. > :44:32.head of boom and bust there. Why has such an essential service come
:44:32. > :44:37.down to a business proposition? think, first of all, it is
:44:37. > :44:40.acceptable to have private provision. I don't think it is the
:44:40. > :44:46.right thing for the Times for the public sector to run care homes
:44:46. > :44:50.alone. It comes down to sustainable businesses. If you take Southern
:44:50. > :44:54.Cross as an example, it is down to them to make sure they have a
:44:54. > :44:59.sustainable business model. What happens in the meantime is that the
:44:59. > :45:02.staff at those homes are absolutely dedicated to care. It is about
:45:02. > :45:07.staff doing their jobs superlatively well, while the
:45:07. > :45:11.business around them finds the right way forward. But we are
:45:11. > :45:15.talking about very vulnerable people. What happens if private
:45:15. > :45:23.homes stop taking those people that can't pay for themselves? The buck
:45:23. > :45:27.stops with the council, doesn't it? A absolutely, and it always should.
:45:27. > :45:31.We sat down with Hillary and her colleagues and discussed our issues
:45:31. > :45:35.and why we had to cut their rates. While they made a number of
:45:35. > :45:40.comments, they have not happened as yet and they are still accepting
:45:40. > :45:45.people that we support. It is an ongoing thing that we have a duty
:45:45. > :45:50.to get the best value for money for council tax payers. We sit down and
:45:50. > :45:53.look at all the aspects. We have cut their rates by 4% but that is
:45:53. > :46:00.money we can go and spend supporting other people. But what
:46:00. > :46:05.is best for the old people? That is who we are talking about. You have
:46:05. > :46:09.to think - the family makes a decision that somebody in their
:46:09. > :46:14.family has to go into residential care. That is a big decision for
:46:14. > :46:19.them. It is hard. You want the best possible care, and what is
:46:19. > :46:23.happening now does not give that confidence. A lot of people have
:46:23. > :46:30.taken a lot of money at a southern cross that should have been spent
:46:30. > :46:35.on the people who need care. We are right to think that we need every
:46:35. > :46:38.structure. We can get health and social services and social care
:46:38. > :46:43.working better together for a lot more preventive care, and support
:46:43. > :46:48.for people who care for families at home. The idea that a private
:46:48. > :46:53.company can do what they want with their company when they are caring
:46:53. > :46:57.for our all the citizens it is completely unacceptable. Country is
:46:57. > :47:02.a acceptable, clearly Smith? Yes. If they were taking the wrong steps,
:47:02. > :47:05.that would be an acceptable. Bat is whether Care Quality Commission
:47:05. > :47:15.have to do their job very well which is to step in and do the
:47:15. > :47:20.right thing. The other important thing is how we fund social care as
:47:20. > :47:26.a model in the economy and the overall level. There has to be away
:47:26. > :47:31.in the future, with larger numbers of old people... How do we do it?
:47:31. > :47:41.we will have to accept that we will need to pay a bit more when my
:47:41. > :47:41.
:47:42. > :47:49.generation gets to that age. If you look at Sandwell. They took the
:47:49. > :47:54.local authority staff on the same pay and conditions, and they are
:47:54. > :48:00.caring for our older people. But on the minimum wage? I don't like that
:48:00. > :48:05.at all. Through social enterprise and that working with the local
:48:05. > :48:12.council, we can care for our older citizens probably. But the private
:48:12. > :48:18.market can work. In Suffolk, of the 2,800 people that we support, 2,300
:48:18. > :48:22.of those are in the private sector. They are in the same standard of
:48:22. > :48:27.homes. You are selling off the remaining 16 council-run homes - or
:48:27. > :48:33.what is driving that decision? Is it money or a belief that that
:48:33. > :48:37.decision will create better care? am charged with making sure that we
:48:37. > :48:42.support people in residential care and in their own homes and across a
:48:42. > :48:45.range of preventative services. We spend more money in Suffolk are
:48:45. > :48:50.providing a care bed in our own homes than we do when we buy
:48:50. > :48:57.exactly the same standard in the private sector - and that is money
:48:57. > :49:00.I am not so bending on other people or on preventative services. It is
:49:00. > :49:05.right and proper for councils to look at every aspect of their
:49:06. > :49:11.spending, to get the best value for money. We have run out of time but
:49:11. > :49:16.thank you very much indeed, all of you.
:49:16. > :49:20.From homes for the elderly to housing in general, and fears that
:49:20. > :49:25.newly-built affordable homes could soon be few and far between. But
:49:25. > :49:29.coalition has pledged to increase the supply of social housing, but
:49:29. > :49:32.cut the budget for new affordable homes by roughly half. And figures
:49:32. > :49:37.obtained by the BBC revealed that the Supporting People budget, which
:49:37. > :49:41.helps vulnerable people find a home, will drop across the region this
:49:41. > :49:45.year. The councils say they will do their level best to cut
:49:45. > :49:53.inefficiency rather than frontline services. But figures show that in
:49:53. > :49:58.Essex, the budget is down by 16%, and by 12.5% in Hertfordshire. In
:49:58. > :50:02.central Bedfordshire, the budget is 11% lower, while Suffolk and
:50:02. > :50:11.Southend authorities will see a 6% drop. In Norfolk and Cambridgeshire,
:50:11. > :50:19.the cut is around 4%, and in Milton Keynes around 1%. Just what does
:50:19. > :50:23.the future hold for affordable homes in our region?
:50:23. > :50:27.These houses seem one answer to their housing drive. The in post-
:50:27. > :50:31.war Britain, housing was at the forefront of government policy. A
:50:31. > :50:35.decent home two we rent was a welfare ride along with free
:50:35. > :50:40.education and health care. By the 1980s, many of them were being
:50:40. > :50:45.bought up. In Essex, the Pattison family were given the deeds to the
:50:45. > :50:50.council flat they had rented for more than 20 years. Now tenancies
:50:50. > :50:58.could last as little as two years if financial service --
:50:58. > :51:05.circumstances improve. When you make a tenancy dependent on income,
:51:05. > :51:11.you disincentive eyes people from going out to work to improve their
:51:11. > :51:16.income because they may be at risk of losing their home. Today, one in
:51:16. > :51:24.five of us live in social housing paying below market rents. But
:51:24. > :51:26.there is concern some people are met -- taking advantage. We have to
:51:26. > :51:30.make sure that those who are the most vulnerable are not paying
:51:30. > :51:33.their taxes to support the wrong people living in social housing -
:51:33. > :51:37.those who are not in need but are in a position of comfort and
:51:37. > :51:42.convenience. We are making sure their housing goes to people who
:51:42. > :51:47.actually need it, rather than, as has sometimes been the case, people
:51:47. > :51:52.who needed it at some point but don't currently. Despite that,
:51:52. > :51:56.there are 153,000 people on the waiting list in the east. This
:51:56. > :52:00.woman is one of the lucky ones. She had been living in cramped
:52:00. > :52:06.conditions with their six children but has recently moved into this
:52:06. > :52:09.four-bedroomed house. Me and the two little ones work slipping on a
:52:09. > :52:15.safer but we could not all sit together and eat - there was not
:52:15. > :52:20.enough room. In these houses, there is so much room. By it it is not as
:52:20. > :52:23.large families that mead and affordable home. Andrew Martin has
:52:23. > :52:28.come to look round a new social housing complex just finished in
:52:28. > :52:32.Norwich. He hopes that by paying less rent now, he can save up to
:52:32. > :52:37.buy the property in the future. is really difficult for people to
:52:37. > :52:42.get mortgages because of the deposits you have to have. This is
:52:42. > :52:47.just a way of in a year or two years' time, I will be able to get
:52:47. > :52:52.on the housing ladder. Board and Housing built this scheme with
:52:52. > :52:59.almost �2 million of budget if -- government funding. They fear that
:52:59. > :53:03.it could be a lot harder in the future. This will increase our
:53:03. > :53:08.private finance borrowings. That means, in the future, we can't
:53:08. > :53:17.build as many. There is only a finite amount of fear money we can
:53:17. > :53:21.raise. I can see in the future, the list increasing in size. Another
:53:22. > :53:26.victim of spending cuts could be supported housing. This scheme in
:53:27. > :53:31.Suffolk is for people with mental health problems. The government has
:53:31. > :53:35.already cut grants to provide the service by 12%. Now that money is
:53:36. > :53:40.no longer ring fenced of a cash- strapped councils could see it as
:53:40. > :53:50.an easy target though it is proving cost-effective. People come here
:53:50. > :53:50.
:53:50. > :53:55.and start to use their service, and it could be very costly for
:53:55. > :53:59.community health teams providing that visiting support if we are not
:53:59. > :54:03.here any more. The impact of that would be that regular visits and
:54:03. > :54:08.in-patient stays might occur. Critics say all these changes
:54:08. > :54:12.together will hit the vulnerable the hardest. So, could the biggest
:54:12. > :54:19.shake-up of social housing in a generation create more issues than
:54:19. > :54:23.it is trying to solve? Chloe Smith, let's try and answer that question.
:54:23. > :54:28.There is the coalition in danger of creating more problems than it is
:54:29. > :54:33.trying to solve? Social housing and affordable housing are incredibly
:54:33. > :54:38.important and no one underestimates that. The second thing to say,
:54:38. > :54:43.however, is there simply is not enough money any more to do what we
:54:43. > :54:46.want to do. If you raise money, you have to pay it back. The former
:54:47. > :54:52.government should be ashamed of themselves for having left us in
:54:52. > :54:56.such a situation. Angela Smith, you should be ashamed of yourself.
:54:56. > :55:04.Their housing waiting list did grow under Labour. It did and the
:55:04. > :55:07.recession led to a greater waiting list. It is very difficult to get
:55:07. > :55:12.everything together but what worries me is what the minister
:55:12. > :55:16.said there - the idea about having short-term tenancies. I understand
:55:16. > :55:20.that if you prove you are a good tenant, we are not worried about
:55:20. > :55:24.you. But to the idea that if you are a couple that marry and have
:55:24. > :55:27.children and mum goes out to work while that children are at school,
:55:27. > :55:37.if their income goes above a certain level they could lose their
:55:37. > :55:39.
:55:39. > :55:42.home. Let's put that 0.2 Chloe Smith. Introduce this tenancy idea
:55:42. > :55:49.and you do not encourage people to go out and earn money because they
:55:49. > :55:53.think they will lose their homes. This is a reflection of what has to
:55:53. > :55:56.happen in the private sector housing market, as well. People
:55:56. > :56:00.have to live within their means, just as the country does, and with
:56:00. > :56:06.that many people on the housing waiting list, we can't afford to
:56:06. > :56:10.have people living in a home they may no longer need. But it is their
:56:10. > :56:14.home! They do need a home. You can't suggest that because somebody
:56:14. > :56:24.gets a promotion or gets another job to better themselves, they are
:56:24. > :56:30.not entitled to their home. But how do you afford it? This is
:56:30. > :56:34.not about cuts. It is about a different attitude to housing. Bass
:56:34. > :56:38.is the key thing - getting houses built - about getting people into
:56:38. > :56:43.homes. But cutting the very basic need that somebody has for their
:56:43. > :56:47.home is not about money at all. It is about a different attitude to
:56:47. > :56:53.housing from this government to previous governments. People have a
:56:53. > :56:57.right to rent and a afford housing, but they do not deserve to be
:56:57. > :57:01.chucked out of their home because they get a pay rise. Angela would
:57:01. > :57:04.have to justify that to those people who pay their taxes, and
:57:04. > :57:08.everyone else who pays their taxes. It is about putting scarce
:57:08. > :57:14.resources where they are most needed and most people agree with
:57:14. > :57:21.that. He will have to agree to disagree. Thank you are both very
:57:21. > :57:29.much indeed for joining us. Don't forget, you can watch the