:00:44. > :00:46.Here in the East: We're in Corby at a former royal
:00:46. > :00:49.residence and centre of government, to talk about this government's
:00:49. > :00:51.Localism Bill, devolving power to councils and to communities, like
:00:51. > :01:01.the one in the centre of Corby that's reclaimed this ancient
:01:01. > :01:01.
:01:01. > :40:27.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2366 seconds
:40:28. > :40:37.Hello and welcome to Corby. It is the part of the programme at just
:40:38. > :40:38.
:40:38. > :40:48.We have come down, not for a teddy bear's picnic, but to talk about
:40:48. > :40:55.the government's plans for the big societies. --. Here to tell us
:40:55. > :41:01.about the would land in Corby is the chairman of Friends of
:41:01. > :41:06.woodlands. Why do these woodlands need friends? As a child I used to
:41:06. > :41:14.play here. Over the years, the woodland has been deteriorating and
:41:14. > :41:20.getting really bad. We formed the England Is Ours to clear that -- we
:41:20. > :41:27.formed the group to clear the woodland. To make it accessible to
:41:27. > :41:32.all the people of Corby. The school's use it, and everyone else
:41:32. > :41:38.over the past three years. How easy was it to find people to help? Who
:41:38. > :41:43.is involved? Everyone is involved. They have an interest, even if it
:41:43. > :41:52.is only a comment about the woodland. They can come to our
:41:52. > :41:58.meetings and express their comments. Who benefits? He everybody.
:41:58. > :42:04.Everybody who has ever been through Corby. They all come in here.
:42:04. > :42:10.accessible? It is accessible to everybody, even the disabled. We
:42:10. > :42:17.have done 6.5 kilometres of pathway so everyone can get down here. They
:42:17. > :42:23.all come to the woodland. Some would say this is a great example
:42:23. > :42:28.of the Big Society. People here are keen to emphasise it predates David
:42:28. > :42:33.Cameron's idea for some years. It is part of the government's
:42:33. > :42:38.localism bills. In this region, the localism agenda is coming under
:42:38. > :42:43.scrutiny in two areas. One is controversial plans to get rid of
:42:43. > :42:47.our waste. In Northamptonshire campaigners are bringing a legal
:42:47. > :42:51.challenge against the Secretary of State's decision to allow nuclear
:42:51. > :42:58.waste to be stored at a village landfill site.
:42:58. > :43:04.It is not a Tale of Two cities, but more of two kings. Both are
:43:04. > :43:08.challenging the Government's Localism Bill. Both won their
:43:08. > :43:14.voices heard. The people here have protested against it, and they
:43:14. > :43:19.think they should listen for. 90% were opposed. Shouldn't they
:43:19. > :43:23.take notice of that? People should be listened to. Eric Pickles ruled
:43:23. > :43:29.that nuclear waste to could be stored in a satin sheer, angering
:43:29. > :43:34.one of his own MPs. -- in Northamptonshire. It flies in the
:43:34. > :43:38.face of everything the Government has been saying about localism. The
:43:38. > :43:47.last Labour government changed the rules so that nuclear waste could
:43:47. > :43:52.be dumped far away from where it is generated. Eric Pickles chose to
:43:53. > :43:56.ignore are referendums. Campaigners say they feel betrayed. There was a
:43:56. > :44:02.fair degree of cynicism about politicians in general, what they
:44:02. > :44:06.say and what they do do not meet. We are very angry and it
:44:06. > :44:12.illustrated to as the fine words that we hear coming out of Eric
:44:12. > :44:18.Pickles's mouth is not backed up by the deeds he undertakes. Heading to
:44:18. > :44:23.King's Lynn, they are fighting plans for a �600 million
:44:23. > :44:27.incinerator. For a referendum came out against it here. If they ignore
:44:27. > :44:33.what people want on this, though Localism Bill is dead in the water.
:44:33. > :44:38.Where people feel strongly enough to come out in large numbers, and
:44:38. > :44:41.that decision is absolutely clear cut, it has to be respected. If
:44:41. > :44:46.you're not going to respect it, you have no business being in
:44:46. > :44:53.government. The local council had the referendum, they have listened
:44:53. > :44:59.to local people. The Localism Bill enables -- enabled this referendum
:44:59. > :45:03.to take place. Our referendum was one of the first in the country and
:45:03. > :45:08.people have voted against it. Experts say people's expectation of
:45:08. > :45:12.the Localism Bill is not realistic. Ministers have given a greater
:45:12. > :45:18.impression that the Localism Bill will allow everybody to get
:45:18. > :45:21.everything they want, than is ever going to be the case. There will be
:45:21. > :45:26.some at national planning decisions made at a national level and some
:45:26. > :45:32.major ones made at a county or district level. Local people will
:45:32. > :45:37.just have to put up with big. typical of the Government. They do
:45:37. > :45:43.not take notice of anything people say. Neither this Government or the
:45:43. > :45:46.past government. Not very democratic these days. Legal
:45:46. > :45:56.challenges are now being made in both parts of the region.
:45:56. > :45:58.
:45:58. > :46:01.Campaigners will make their views We have moved up the road to
:46:01. > :46:05.Rockingham Castle where the parliamentary supporting Roundheads
:46:05. > :46:10.battled against the monarchist Cavaliers in the civil war.
:46:10. > :46:15.Democracy has grown since then and now the Government says its
:46:15. > :46:20.Localism Bill will set the foundations for the big societies.
:46:20. > :46:25.People are voicing concern because they could be facing cuts of up
:46:25. > :46:30.their own. We have been looking at a charity which helps young
:46:30. > :46:36.families in Northamptonshire. Leanne's eldest son has severe
:46:36. > :46:42.cerebral palsy. Throughout his life, she has had support from a charity.
:46:42. > :46:47.Today, one of their volunteers is helping her it take Robbie and his
:46:47. > :46:52.younger brother to the park. Leanne is in little doubt that without the
:46:52. > :46:57.charity's support, the pressure would have become too much.
:46:57. > :47:02.Sometimes it would be the only time in the week I would leave the house,
:47:02. > :47:08.when my lady came. We would go for a walk, feed the ducks and have a
:47:08. > :47:13.chat. Without the support, where would you have been? I dread to
:47:13. > :47:19.think. I would not have a left the house. Things like a family shop
:47:19. > :47:23.would have been impossible. You cannot pursue a wheelchair, manage
:47:23. > :47:28.a baby and pursue a pushchair as well. The charity embodies many of
:47:28. > :47:34.the principles of the big societies. The volunteers support 80 families
:47:34. > :47:39.a year. It can appear that you are giving and not getting, but
:47:39. > :47:48.actually you do get a lot. It might not always the obvious what you do
:47:48. > :47:53.get. So volunteering is a two-way process? It is. Tough times lie
:47:53. > :47:58.ahead, last week, a volunteer organisations in Suffolk with their
:47:58. > :48:05.concerns about the Big Society. All at a time when there Grant's face
:48:05. > :48:11.being cut. The there is not going to be an emergency bail-out. We may
:48:11. > :48:17.do it for Eurozone countries, but they will have to find cost saving
:48:18. > :48:23.from the back office. At home start, it is hard to see where it can cut.
:48:23. > :48:28.It only has two full-time staff. Soon it will learn if grants for
:48:28. > :48:33.its funding will be renewed. I do not see that the Big Society means
:48:33. > :48:38.anything for us, because we are already doing it. Do you fear it
:48:38. > :48:44.will affect your funding? If they need the money to be spread further
:48:44. > :48:51.afield, obviously it will be affected. And that, inevitably,
:48:52. > :48:55.would mean less help and support for families that need it.
:48:56. > :48:59.The minister for civil society visited the region recently. Nick
:48:59. > :49:08.Conrad caught up with him to discuss the big societies. He began
:49:08. > :49:13.by asking him what it means clear - -? It is about giving people more
:49:13. > :49:21.or responsibility over their lives and there public services that they
:49:21. > :49:25.use. It is the government trying to support people who want to get more
:49:25. > :49:31.involved in their communities. It is giving people a sense it is
:49:31. > :49:36.worth getting involved locally, your voice will be heard. Will we
:49:36. > :49:40.change that overnight, no. You say it is not about helping the
:49:40. > :49:45.Government, but the Government has taken away core grants which are
:49:45. > :49:50.affecting some of these charities. There is the need to reduce public
:49:50. > :49:56.expenditure, radically, because we cannot go on spending �120 million
:49:56. > :50:01.a day in interest. The stuff we want to do, the Big Society agenda,
:50:01. > :50:06.it is really about how communities will work in the future, how public
:50:06. > :50:12.services get delivered, giving people more power. That is what we
:50:12. > :50:17.want to do, that is a long-term agenda us. I put it to you that
:50:18. > :50:21.people's support for the Big Society has been rather
:50:21. > :50:24.underwhelming. Now charities are turning to the Government saying
:50:24. > :50:31.they did not have the might of people they need to continue with
:50:31. > :50:36.their services. Running charities is very difficult. They are used to
:50:36. > :50:42.managing through tough times. can see the full interview on our
:50:42. > :50:45.website. We have come inside the castle, in a moment we will meet a
:50:46. > :50:53.professor who is the vice chancellor of the University of
:50:53. > :50:57.Northampton. First, let's niche the Conservative MP for South
:50:57. > :51:03.Northamptonshire. The Labour MP for Luton South and an audience of
:51:03. > :51:10.interested parties. Giving more people a say in
:51:10. > :51:13.planning has to be a good ambition, doesn't it? It is a good ambition.
:51:14. > :51:18.Some of the things we will talk about today will drop out that
:51:18. > :51:24.there is a tension between the big, national infrastructure take
:51:24. > :51:30.decisions and not overbearing local communities at the same time. Our
:51:30. > :51:33.guiding position should be, if it is important for the national
:51:33. > :51:38.interest we go with that, but everything else should be locally
:51:38. > :51:43.decided. Andrea, would you say the problem with localism is that
:51:43. > :51:47.basically people's hopes have been raised and then dashed again?
:51:47. > :51:51.at all. The Bill is going through Parliament at the moment so we are
:51:51. > :51:55.in a bit of a grey area where we are still under legislation passed
:51:55. > :51:59.by the previous government and we are waiting to approach this brave,
:51:59. > :52:03.new world where local people will have their say on local issues.
:52:03. > :52:07.That does not mean all infrastructure projects that are in
:52:08. > :52:14.the national interest can be included in that. There needs to be
:52:14. > :52:18.an area where the government still has a say. Roger Kingston wants to
:52:18. > :52:23.come in here. He is from a residence alliance and is concerned
:52:23. > :52:28.about lack of infrastructure. There are 20,000 houses to the west of
:52:28. > :52:34.North Hampshire being built, localism is working for you or not?
:52:34. > :52:39.It is not working for us. We are still governed by an on
:52:39. > :52:43.democratically elected quango. We have not yet have the
:52:44. > :52:48.infrastructure completed for the housing estates that we live on. We
:52:48. > :52:54.hoped that this new coalition government would give us some say,
:52:54. > :52:59.some control over that. But I understand that it is not possible.
:52:59. > :53:02.Andrea, what you make of that? You said this government would deliver
:53:03. > :53:12.planning power back to local authorities who know and understand
:53:13. > :53:14.
:53:14. > :53:18.the local area. The issue is, as I said, we are in a grey area. To get
:53:18. > :53:23.rid of the corporation before 23rd team that would require primary
:53:23. > :53:27.legislation. It takes so long to reverse the some of these top down
:53:27. > :53:31.planning policies that were introduced by the last government.
:53:31. > :53:34.Likewise with the regional spacial strategy that has done so much
:53:34. > :53:40.damage to Northamptonshire, in terms of planning that was not
:53:40. > :53:44.wanted, it is difficult to put a stop to it. What about the
:53:44. > :53:48.referendums, local people can instigate a referendum. That is an
:53:48. > :53:53.ambitious plans. It is an interesting idea. One of my
:53:53. > :53:58.concerns is that we have a system of democratic accountability which
:53:58. > :54:01.involves selecting people to stand locally to represent their own area.
:54:01. > :54:07.I have concerns we are undermining local government in some of those
:54:07. > :54:13.initiatives. What about the rest of the audience? Does anyone believe
:54:13. > :54:19.localism is working? We had a referendum under the old rules, I
:54:19. > :54:22.know the localism Bell has not been passed yet, we were supporting our
:54:22. > :54:27.local council because they had turned down planning for the
:54:27. > :54:31.radioactive waste to be stored. 98% of people who voted did not want it
:54:31. > :54:36.and it was overturned by the Secretary of State who said, as you
:54:36. > :54:42.have said, national interest tactics President of a local
:54:42. > :54:48.interest. I would say, where has been the national debate. Do you
:54:48. > :54:53.have a response? I have every sympathy. I am very concerned about
:54:53. > :54:57.that particular issue. There needs to be a national debate about
:54:57. > :55:03.radioactive waste. With regards to the Localism Bill, everybody would
:55:03. > :55:08.agree that localism does not mean you can just say, nothing we do not
:55:08. > :55:14.want will ever happen here. No-one believes that is possible. Nuclear
:55:14. > :55:18.waste is a very different issue, but where incinerators, even wind
:55:18. > :55:23.farms where I personally am very questioning of the technology, but
:55:23. > :55:28.I do think there are issues and big projects where government national
:55:29. > :55:35.interest has to hold sway over localism. I do want to move on to
:55:35. > :55:40.big society. Nick, you university is a socially enterprising
:55:40. > :55:46.university. You obviously see this sector growing in the future. In
:55:46. > :55:52.what ways will it grow? There are a number of ways we can see it grow.
:55:52. > :55:56.One example would be helping people set up companies, they could be
:55:56. > :56:00.third sector, charity organisations, or perhaps part of the public
:56:00. > :56:03.services which have been outsourced. Help them to create their own
:56:03. > :56:07.companies and take charge of their own destiny through setting
:56:07. > :56:12.themselves up as social entrepreneurs. The profits that
:56:12. > :56:16.they generate, and the key thing here is that these entities must be
:56:16. > :56:22.profit generated, that money is ploughed back into the good of the
:56:22. > :56:25.company. It does not go to shareholders. Let's talk about
:56:26. > :56:32.voluntary projects. At the beginning of the programme we went
:56:32. > :56:39.to see that Forest that has been developed in Corby. What about this
:56:39. > :56:42.label, the big societies. Do you like it? Not really. In Corby we
:56:42. > :56:47.have developed a partnership approach to these things over many
:56:47. > :56:52.years. People volunteer in Corby because they want to help each
:56:52. > :56:56.other, they want to help local residents. Corby people are cheesed
:56:56. > :57:03.off to be part of what, to me, it seems nothing more than a
:57:03. > :57:06.rebranding exercise by the Conservative Party. With cuts
:57:06. > :57:15.affecting local community groups, the ability to be able to do these
:57:15. > :57:20.things has been reduced. Devon, what about this basic premise of
:57:20. > :57:26.encouraging communities to work together, to look after themselves?
:57:26. > :57:32.It is a great idea. I am a massive advocate behind the ideas of the
:57:32. > :57:35.great -- the big societies. The problem, and it has been put more
:57:36. > :57:40.articulate than -- articulately than I ever could, is that the
:57:40. > :57:46.money is not there to do it. We are beginning to see more social
:57:46. > :57:51.enterprises, charities, other groups, go to the wall because they
:57:51. > :57:55.cannot receive that funding. It is unfair to raise people's hopes in
:57:55. > :58:02.this way, and then to dash them by not giving the money out in the
:58:02. > :58:06.first place. Andrea, a good idea, that branding? The Big Society is
:58:06. > :58:10.more of a vision. There is no doubt the people in this country have
:58:10. > :58:15.volunteered for years. Four fifths of everything that goes on in the
:58:15. > :58:19.country is somebody caring for someone else. The Big Society is
:58:19. > :58:25.not a policy, it is more of a vision. In the last Budget, the
:58:25. > :58:29.government enabled charities to claim the gift Aid, and to enable
:58:29. > :58:34.people we want to bequest money to a charity when they died to pay it
:58:34. > :58:38.to the charity instead of the Exchequer. It enables people to
:58:38. > :58:42.volunteer more, it is about encouraging companies to let their
:58:42. > :58:50.staff volunteer. It is not some kind of brand that people have to
:58:50. > :58:56.slot into. Barney, I know you were from the Home-Start charity that we
:58:56. > :59:00.featured. How do you see the future? The future for at this game
:59:00. > :59:05.in the county as well as Northampton is that we have
:59:06. > :59:10.confirmed funding until the end of September. We would then be
:59:10. > :59:16.entering into a negotiating a discussion. Generally, do you feel
:59:16. > :59:22.the idea of a big society is catching up on? I think it has been
:59:22. > :59:29.oversold. That is the problem. We got very excited during the run-up
:59:29. > :59:35.to the election. Professor, finally to you, as far as young people go,
:59:35. > :59:43.they are future. If they can add to a bigger society, it can add value
:59:43. > :59:53.to them? I think so. There is an enormous at -- appetite from our
:59:53. > :59:53.
:59:53. > :00:02.students with volunteering. Last year, we volunteered 26,000 hours
:00:02. > :00:06.to local communities. That is about �0.5 million. Universities have a
:00:06. > :00:12.great role in society to develop the notion of volunteering for.