0:00:34 > 0:00:36Here in the East: As the Conservatives gather in
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Manchester for their conference, some of our backbenchers are
0:00:39 > 0:00:42squaring up to their leadership. And Dale Farm wins another stay of
0:00:42 > 0:00:52execution while these travellers in Milton Keynes fight for their site
0:00:52 > 0:00:52
0:00:52 > 0:36:39Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2146 seconds
0:36:39 > 0:36:42Thanks Jon, and welcome to the part of the programme just for us here
0:36:42 > 0:36:44in the east. I'm Etholle George. The Conservatives are about to open
0:36:44 > 0:36:47their conference in Manchester. Great Yarmouth MP Brandon Lewis was
0:36:47 > 0:36:50there as the party faithful arrived. We'll hear from him in a moment.
0:36:50 > 0:36:58Later, our Conservatives with some well aimed words for their
0:36:58 > 0:37:01leadership. The as the Prime Minister to think it is about time
0:37:01 > 0:37:07we told the deputy Prime Minister who is the boss?
0:37:07 > 0:37:09And travellers fighting for a site - and no, it's not Dale Farm.
0:37:09 > 0:37:12But first, the Conservatives are just about to open their conference
0:37:12 > 0:37:15at a time of huge economic uncertainty, so will that dominate
0:37:15 > 0:37:18the agenda this week, or will it simply revert to the Tories annual
0:37:18 > 0:37:21jamboree? Earlier, I asked Brandon Lewis, the Great Yarmouth MP, who
0:37:21 > 0:37:31joined us from the conference centre, whether he had been able to
0:37:31 > 0:37:34
0:37:34 > 0:37:37assess the mood there yet? Yes, I bumped into a few colleagues and
0:37:37 > 0:37:40attendees already this morning. People got here last flight and
0:37:40 > 0:37:45early today to have a look ahead of the main start of the conference
0:37:45 > 0:37:49this afternoon. There is a good attitude at the moment. What have
0:37:49 > 0:37:55people been saying? People feel they have a good chance to make
0:37:55 > 0:37:59clear what our message is on the economy and the reforms. They are
0:37:59 > 0:38:02looking forward to a positive week, hearing what the Cabinet and the
0:38:02 > 0:38:06Chancellor and Prime Minister have to say over the next few days.
0:38:06 > 0:38:10goes without saying that economic matters are very serious. There has
0:38:10 > 0:38:13already been criticism from your own ranks that there is no plan for
0:38:13 > 0:38:21growth. Could we see a change of course this week to stimulate
0:38:21 > 0:38:25growth? To be fair, the Chancellor has been clear from the beginning
0:38:25 > 0:38:28and I fully support his position on dealing with the deficit in making
0:38:28 > 0:38:32our foundation solid so we can deal from there. We have been clear from
0:38:32 > 0:38:42the beginning that we do want to see growth and are continuing to
0:38:42 > 0:38:45
0:38:45 > 0:38:49look for areas for growth. We want a positive ability to move forward
0:38:49 > 0:38:55and see growth in the private sector. What else are you hopes for
0:38:55 > 0:39:00this week? We will probably get a good opportunity for people like
0:39:00 > 0:39:04the Chancellor to really outline and itemised some of the work that
0:39:04 > 0:39:08has been done to see stimulus in the private sector, to outline some
0:39:08 > 0:39:12of the ideas we will be looking at over the next few months, because
0:39:12 > 0:39:18it is important that we start to see the economy grow. It is growing,
0:39:18 > 0:39:26slowly, but we want to see that light at the end of the tunnel. We
0:39:26 > 0:39:28want real growth that people can be excited about. Thank you.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32There's a growing number of backbenchers straining to unleash
0:39:32 > 0:39:35what they regard as true Toryism, frustrated at what they see as the
0:39:35 > 0:39:37growing influence of the junior partner. It's likely to be one of
0:39:37 > 0:39:47the underlying themes of this year's conference, as Andrew
0:39:47 > 0:39:55
0:39:55 > 0:39:59In recent months at what the -- at Westminster, there has been a faint
0:39:59 > 0:40:02whiff of rebellion. In private conversations often late at night,
0:40:02 > 0:40:06frustrated backbenchers talk through gritted teeth about their
0:40:07 > 0:40:11coalition partners. Sometimes, it gets all too much and may just have
0:40:11 > 0:40:18to blow it out how they are feeling. Does the Prime Minister think it is
0:40:18 > 0:40:23about time we told the Deputy Prime Minister who is the boss? I think
0:40:23 > 0:40:29we need to rebalance. We need to understand the majority of people
0:40:29 > 0:40:33voted for the Conservative government and there are policies
0:40:34 > 0:40:36they want to see introduced as a result of their votes. A number of
0:40:36 > 0:40:44my activists, and I get the impression from my colleagues that
0:40:45 > 0:40:48this is relatively widespread, feel that that hail has gained some
0:40:48 > 0:40:52muscle and is moving the body of the dog a bit more than it ought to.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57In many respects, the Tories are doing well. They hold nearly every
0:40:57 > 0:41:04seat in the region, and did very well in the local elections. That
0:41:04 > 0:41:06is one reason for the frustration. There are a number of issues where
0:41:06 > 0:41:11the sentiment of the Conservative Party and indeed the country seems
0:41:11 > 0:41:15to be out of line with the coalition policy. The public and
0:41:15 > 0:41:24the Conservative Party are much more spectacle -- sceptical about
0:41:24 > 0:41:29the you. Barak the EU. Much more concerned about immigration and law
0:41:29 > 0:41:33and order. And certainly very suspicious about the human rights
0:41:33 > 0:41:36agenda we have imported into our constitution. These are things the
0:41:36 > 0:41:41government will have to address because there is public demand for
0:41:41 > 0:41:45it. The Conservatives accept going into coalition has meant making
0:41:45 > 0:41:49compromises, but many feel the junior partner is having a bit too
0:41:49 > 0:41:53much influence. The Lib Dem conference did little to help.
0:41:53 > 0:42:00Sometimes we have to be a bit awkward. As a coalition partners
0:42:00 > 0:42:10are finding out on a daily basis, we are not here to make things easy.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13We are here to put things right. We're reminding, gently, the Prime
0:42:13 > 0:42:20Minister of the position of a sizable section of the party, which
0:42:20 > 0:42:24actually numbers more than the Liberals bring to him. I think that
0:42:24 > 0:42:30point is worth making. That is not in a rebellious way, it is made in
0:42:30 > 0:42:33a way to say, we are here, David. We support you, but we are a
0:42:33 > 0:42:37separate to Conservatives and we have a position also that we stand
0:42:37 > 0:42:40for. And we need you to take account of that position. So this
0:42:40 > 0:42:44week, expect plenty of barbed comments about the Lib Dems and
0:42:44 > 0:42:49lots of talk about what the Tory party should be standing for after
0:42:49 > 0:42:52the next election. They may be in coalition for the Conservatives do
0:42:52 > 0:42:54not want to lose their identity. Now, joining me are the
0:42:54 > 0:42:58Conservative MP for South Norfolk, Richard Bacon, and coalition
0:42:58 > 0:43:02partner the Lib Dem MP for Colchester, Bob Russell. Are you
0:43:02 > 0:43:10aware of the tensions in the party and why do you think the east of
0:43:10 > 0:43:14England has more than its fair share of dissenters? Well, there
0:43:15 > 0:43:18are a lot of Conservative MPs in a region, that is the first dancer.
0:43:18 > 0:43:23As far as your club is concerned, I'm sure there will be some barbed
0:43:23 > 0:43:26comments about the Liberal Democrats - there were some
0:43:26 > 0:43:31extremely barbed comments about the Conservatives at the Lib Dem
0:43:31 > 0:43:34conference last week. That is what you get when it is party conference
0:43:34 > 0:43:38season! Adding normal service will be resumed in a few weeks. So I
0:43:38 > 0:43:42would not take too much notice of that. The colleagues that you just
0:43:42 > 0:43:46filmed are very frank Parliamentary colleagues, I get on with them well
0:43:46 > 0:43:53and I have some sympathy with some of the things they were saying. The
0:43:53 > 0:43:56message I have for them is if you want more, the answer is to get a
0:43:56 > 0:43:59majority Conservative government. And the way to do that is to have a
0:43:59 > 0:44:08strong coalition government that delivers economic recovery and then
0:44:08 > 0:44:12we can go into the next election in a stronger position. Bob Russell,
0:44:12 > 0:44:16your party president said the coalition is a marriage of
0:44:16 > 0:44:20convenience and he is preparing for divorce. Are you? I don't know
0:44:20 > 0:44:25about the last bit. Where I come from, the Conservatives are my main
0:44:25 > 0:44:30opponents. But each political party is a coalition in itself. The last
0:44:30 > 0:44:32election did not produce a winner, and, yes, we do have these right-
0:44:32 > 0:44:38wing head bangers and the Conservative Party, but my
0:44:38 > 0:44:40understanding is that the concerted element of the cabinet and David
0:44:40 > 0:44:44Cameron are more at home with having the Lib Dems within the
0:44:44 > 0:44:49wider coalition then some of their own Conservative Party MPs in the
0:44:50 > 0:44:54Conservative Party coalition. you have been more rebellious in
0:44:54 > 0:44:59the coalition. Do you find it frustrating to the way you are?
0:44:59 > 0:45:03These are issues. I voted against VAT going up because I think it is
0:45:03 > 0:45:09a lousy tax anyway. And they voted against higher tuition fees because
0:45:09 > 0:45:12I signed a pledge. But if you look at the record, you find some of the
0:45:12 > 0:45:17right wing Tory head bangers have made life more difficult for David
0:45:17 > 0:45:21Cameron, and I am sure he and William Hague will be reading
0:45:21 > 0:45:24today's Sunday papers and not wanting to have a Conservative
0:45:24 > 0:45:29right wing government. They are more content with the coalition
0:45:29 > 0:45:32government we have at the moment. I want to stress again, every
0:45:32 > 0:45:37political party is a coalition in itself, as we saw last week in the
0:45:37 > 0:45:40Labour conference. The economy, is likely to dominate the Conference
0:45:40 > 0:45:42surely, with the key issue being deficit reduction versus a plan for
0:45:42 > 0:45:45growth. The chairman of the Treasury Select Committee, Andrew
0:45:45 > 0:45:55Tyrie, wants radical improvements to what he calls a piecemeal policy,
0:45:55 > 0:45:58
0:45:58 > 0:46:01so you agree? I would not have chosen that phrase. But I don't
0:46:01 > 0:46:05think there is an opposition between a plan for growth and
0:46:05 > 0:46:09reducing the at -- the deficit. They are part of the same thing.
0:46:09 > 0:46:12You cannot borrow your way out of debt, it is as simple as that. The
0:46:12 > 0:46:22last government got us into a huge pile of debt by spending too much
0:46:22 > 0:46:28
0:46:28 > 0:46:32money too quickly and also because it lightly regulated the banks. The
0:46:32 > 0:46:37result of that is we have to have tight measures to reduce the
0:46:37 > 0:46:40deficit. Only when we have made sure that we retain the confidence
0:46:40 > 0:46:44of the people overseas we have borrowed the money from all we get
0:46:44 > 0:46:48the kind of economic growth we would like to see. There are a lot
0:46:48 > 0:46:54of well-placed observers though such as the British Chambers of
0:46:54 > 0:47:00Commerce to have said that growth is not sufficient. Everybody would
0:47:00 > 0:47:05like to see stronger economic growth. We have had had half a
0:47:05 > 0:47:10million jobs created in the private sector. If we can get better rail
0:47:10 > 0:47:16links, better road links, better of broadband, and we have money going
0:47:16 > 0:47:20into those schemes, we have a new rail franchise, at those are the
0:47:20 > 0:47:27things that will enable the government to grow. Bob Russell,
0:47:27 > 0:47:31what do you think? The last Labour government to go to the brink of
0:47:31 > 0:47:35bankruptcy. I do not relish after all my years of public life having
0:47:35 > 0:47:38to vote for spending cuts, that is not what they came into politics
0:47:38 > 0:47:45for. But the reality is, if we do not take tough decisions now, it
0:47:45 > 0:47:51will get worse. So we have to make this decision. But the root cause
0:47:51 > 0:48:01here has to be the last Labour government who spent, spent, spent.
0:48:01 > 0:48:01
0:48:01 > 0:48:07We will come back U-boat shortly. - - to you both.
0:48:07 > 0:48:10Now to the fate of the travellers at Dale Farm. A judge at the High
0:48:10 > 0:48:13Court has said a decision on the eviction is unlikely before the
0:48:13 > 0:48:16middle of next week. The injunctions still stand, so the
0:48:16 > 0:48:18council cannot remove people, vans or hard standing from the site near
0:48:18 > 0:48:22Basildon...yet. The travellers are hoping for rulings that would make
0:48:22 > 0:48:25it unlawful for the eviction to go ahead. But this could be their last
0:48:25 > 0:48:28weekend on Dale Farm after a decade long battle with the council. The
0:48:28 > 0:48:33case has brought into sharp focus the whole question of the provision
0:48:34 > 0:48:36of travellers sites or lack of them. In 1994, John Major's government
0:48:36 > 0:48:39abolished the obligation on local authorities to provide sites. By
0:48:39 > 0:48:422000, there was a shortage of legal pitches and an increasing number of
0:48:42 > 0:48:45illegal sites. In 2008, Labour reinstated the obligation on
0:48:45 > 0:48:54councils to provide pitches. And by 2009, 1,237 new pitches were
0:48:54 > 0:48:56proposed on 42 sites around this region. But last year, the
0:48:56 > 0:49:02coalition revoked the planning framework overseeing traveller
0:49:02 > 0:49:05sites, resulting in the removal of pitch targets. One site in Milton
0:49:05 > 0:49:08Keynes had been given the go ahead, only to find that the plans are now
0:49:08 > 0:49:18on hold, although �600,000 has already been spent. Here's Maria
0:49:18 > 0:49:19
0:49:19 > 0:49:24Veronese. Being a traveller, it is so hard it
0:49:24 > 0:49:30is unbelievable. You have to fight for your rights. We are human until
0:49:30 > 0:49:35proven otherwise. If I cut my veins, I will lead! Travellers from Milton
0:49:35 > 0:49:39Keynes are angry. �600,000 has been spent on this five acre site. Trees
0:49:40 > 0:49:44have been cleared and won �28 million had been set aside to
0:49:44 > 0:49:49finish it. But all is a quiet year. 10 permanent pictures were to be
0:49:49 > 0:49:54developed here by this time next year. But then Milton Keynes Lib
0:49:54 > 0:49:57Dem council was going to stump up the cash while local travellers
0:49:57 > 0:50:02paid for rent and council tax. But as you can see, the whole project
0:50:02 > 0:50:06has been put on hold. I feel quite angry about it. There is a
0:50:06 > 0:50:13demonstrated need in Milton Keynes for a site and we know only too
0:50:13 > 0:50:17well from other areas - Basildon, for example - where there been
0:50:17 > 0:50:23illegal camps and the problems that can bring. Here, we have the site
0:50:23 > 0:50:27which has been agreed as being for the use of travellers and planning
0:50:27 > 0:50:33position -- permission has been gained, money has been obtained. It
0:50:33 > 0:50:38is just mad to stop building it. am in a house and I am happy to let
0:50:38 > 0:50:44somebody else move into it because I am not happy. Within four walls,
0:50:44 > 0:50:51I'm cracking up. In a caravan, I am free. Conservatives have not
0:50:51 > 0:50:55stopped -- have now started a review. One way is on insulating
0:50:55 > 0:50:58houses. We have large disparities in lifespan in some areas and one
0:50:59 > 0:51:02reason I am informed by the health services is because housing is in a
0:51:02 > 0:51:07poor state of repair. There is no lack of places to spend money if
0:51:07 > 0:51:11money was available. Nearby residents are pleased the project
0:51:11 > 0:51:18has stalled. If they did move, obviously it would be a job to sell
0:51:18 > 0:51:23their property if people knew there was a travellers' site there.
0:51:23 > 0:51:27don't want to say the wrong thing, but... They have been known to bend
0:51:27 > 0:51:36the rules, shall we say, in helping themselves to other people's
0:51:36 > 0:51:39property? This money was one externally in a bid. I think it
0:51:39 > 0:51:43should be spent on that. It is difficult for the lay person to see
0:51:43 > 0:51:48anything other than discrimination at the heart of why that money
0:51:48 > 0:51:51would not be spent on what it was given to us to spend on. Avoiding
0:51:51 > 0:51:54seems like they said Dale Farm was the thrust behind the last
0:51:54 > 0:52:00government's plans to allow some more sites. Of the existing
0:52:00 > 0:52:09permanent pitches, a further 1,200 were in the pipeline. That is an
0:52:09 > 0:52:12increase on 70s cent -- an increase of 70%. But the government has
0:52:12 > 0:52:17changed its mind although there is still a recognised need for legal
0:52:17 > 0:52:20pictures. You need to allow travellers into authorised site so
0:52:20 > 0:52:24they are not turning up on parts of the green belt and causing
0:52:24 > 0:52:31devastating problems in local communities. So nobody really knows
0:52:31 > 0:52:33what is going to happen here. One thing is for certain - 600,000 tax
0:52:33 > 0:52:38payer pounds have been spent and there is nothing really tangible to
0:52:38 > 0:52:47show for it apart from a few felled trees. In the meantime, the blame
0:52:47 > 0:52:57game continues between political opponents. Please, God, our site
0:52:57 > 0:53:01
0:53:01 > 0:53:03will be built for all of our children. That is all I have to say.
0:53:03 > 0:53:07Christine Donovan ending that report. A decision following the
0:53:07 > 0:53:09review into the future of Fenny Lock is expected in the New Year.
0:53:09 > 0:53:11Doesn't this just show how much politics and planning policy
0:53:11 > 0:53:14matters? Your coalition scrapped the Regional Spatial Strategy or
0:53:14 > 0:53:23RSS which has resulted in plans for travellers sites getting chucked in
0:53:23 > 0:53:28the bin. I am very sorry about certain aspects of this. Work
0:53:28 > 0:53:31started just a few weeks ago in Colchester on a site. I think it is
0:53:31 > 0:53:35the wrong side but work is proceeding. When I was leader of
0:53:35 > 0:53:38the council, I'm pleased to say we introduced a travellers' site into
0:53:38 > 0:53:43Colchester. Unfortunately, the county council subsequently
0:53:43 > 0:53:48withdrew permission and the whole thing went downhill rapidly. But it
0:53:48 > 0:53:51is the coalition that has brought this. I recognise that. But we are
0:53:51 > 0:53:55a coalition of two parties that come together. The unintended
0:53:55 > 0:53:58consequences of what is happening at Milton Keynes is that if they
0:53:58 > 0:54:01don't provide the site for which money has been provided - and you
0:54:02 > 0:54:06can repeat this for all around the country - is that activities will
0:54:06 > 0:54:09go on which will then be a burden on private landowners and on the
0:54:09 > 0:54:14police and other agencies. The cost of the public purse will probably
0:54:14 > 0:54:19end up being greater than providing proper sites. Richard Bacon, let us
0:54:19 > 0:54:22talk about this with regard to the localism bill. There is a great
0:54:22 > 0:54:26difficulty in getting these pictures built under the Bill. Many
0:54:26 > 0:54:29sections of the public are not in favour of them and it is not a
0:54:29 > 0:54:34vote-winner. Councils are under huge financial strain, so things
0:54:34 > 0:54:38will not be done. It is interesting you say it is not a vote winner. I
0:54:38 > 0:54:42thought the lady who said, a fireman a house, I crack-up, in a
0:54:42 > 0:54:46caravan, I feel free. From the travellers' point of view, it is
0:54:46 > 0:54:54very important which is not understood by many people,
0:54:54 > 0:54:57including vast majority of the settled community. I think
0:54:57 > 0:55:00programmes like My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, which did something to
0:55:00 > 0:55:09illustrate the traveller lifestyle, are useful but there is a long way
0:55:09 > 0:55:13to go to persuade the settled community to welcome them. Part of
0:55:13 > 0:55:23that is the travelling community obeying the law. This is not about
0:55:23 > 0:55:24
0:55:24 > 0:55:29human rights, the you, the United Nations. -- the EU. It appears that
0:55:29 > 0:55:32there is one group of people - the travellers and gypsies or some
0:55:32 > 0:55:36travellers and gypsies - to think the law is everybody else and not
0:55:36 > 0:55:41for them. The law applies to everyone, we should all be judged
0:55:41 > 0:55:46before the same courts under the same law. Sort that out and you
0:55:46 > 0:55:53have a chance of sorting the other thing out. Bob Russell, is the only
0:55:54 > 0:56:00way to go back to statutory obligation? Without that it will
0:56:00 > 0:56:06not happen. I think it is a fair point in question. I think yes. We
0:56:06 > 0:56:11have seen the example in Milton Keynes. On Dale Farm, I must
0:56:11 > 0:56:16mention this predates the current Conservative administration. The