:00:43. > :00:45.Here in the East: we've come to Thetford's new
:00:45. > :00:48.academy, where the Education Secretary Michael Gove has been
:00:48. > :00:52.paying a visit. We will be looking at his hopes for more academies
:00:52. > :01:02.like these, and his plans for a growing number of free schools in
:01:02. > :01:02.
:01:02. > :38:01.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2219 seconds
:38:01. > :38:04.Hello, and welcome to the part of the programme just for just here in
:38:04. > :38:07.the East. I'm Etholle George, and this is the Thetford Academy's
:38:07. > :38:10.drama studio with our audience and guests, where we will shortly be
:38:10. > :38:13.talking about the growth of this new kind of school and the
:38:13. > :38:17.development of free schools. Both are based on the same model,
:38:17. > :38:22.independent of local authority control. While academies replace
:38:22. > :38:25.existing schools, free schools are entirely new ventures. But are they
:38:25. > :38:29.needed? Later, the Education Secretary, Michael Gove, reveals
:38:29. > :38:39.all, but we begin with two reports - the first on this very academy in
:38:39. > :38:44.
:38:45. > :38:50.Thetford,and the second on plans to set up a free school in Brentwood.
:38:50. > :38:55.So, the first sense on our sheet is the site. This is Thetford Academy,
:38:55. > :38:58.where there is a new flavour of education on the go. A close
:38:59. > :39:06.encounter with a sherbet lemon in a year nine English lesson. This is
:39:06. > :39:10.all about boosting pupil' descriptive powers. Thetford
:39:10. > :39:16.Academy has grown out of two failing schools. Now, there is a
:39:16. > :39:20.fresh start. We are looking to have an ethos of achievement. It is very
:39:20. > :39:27.important this school succeeds. It is not just about the school, it is
:39:27. > :39:31.about the town. It has got a lot better. I am proud, it is exciting.
:39:31. > :39:36.The academies are funded directly from central government, not local
:39:36. > :39:41.authorities. They are supported by sponsors and must stick to the
:39:41. > :39:43.national curriculum in English, maths and science. 30 miles away,
:39:43. > :39:47.the Ormiston Victory Academy in Norwich - formerly Costessey High -
:39:47. > :39:55.is one of the most improved schools in the country. Exam results shot
:39:55. > :39:59.up by 27% since it opened in September last year. It is
:39:59. > :40:04.completely different. I would never have achieved what I have at the
:40:04. > :40:08.minute, and I'm not even halfway through my GCSEs yet. Behaviour has
:40:08. > :40:16.changed a lot. Now we can going and have a whole lesson without being
:40:16. > :40:22.distracted. The old school was failing, it to needed special
:40:22. > :40:27.measures. We have changed the uniform, we have improved standards.
:40:27. > :40:31.Thetford Academy hopes to mirror that success. Plans for a new �18
:40:31. > :40:35.million building go before planners this month. Any school with an
:40:35. > :40:39.outstanding rating can be fast- tracked to academy status. Now,
:40:39. > :40:45.around one-third of all secondary schools have become academies or
:40:45. > :40:49.are in the process of doing so. Free schools and academies are
:40:49. > :40:56.technically the same. While existing schools convert to academy
:40:56. > :41:01.status, free schools are new start- ups. Scott Davidson is in his last
:41:01. > :41:04.year at primary school. Next September he will start steamier --
:41:04. > :41:10.start senior school. His parents now have to decide which one he
:41:10. > :41:14.will attend. In Brent third, there is a choice of six. One is a new
:41:14. > :41:18.free school being set up by parents and head teachers who want the
:41:18. > :41:22.Church of England secondary school. There are so many church-going
:41:22. > :41:27.families within Brent would. To have a family -- to have a school
:41:28. > :41:32.that links closely to a church, I think it would be good for them to
:41:32. > :41:38.know that is an acceptable value, an acceptable way for them to live
:41:38. > :41:42.their lives. In its first year, this school will have 150 pupils,
:41:42. > :41:49.all aged in year 11. The plan is to grow the schools are more than
:41:49. > :41:51.1,000 pupils aged 11-18. It will be the first three school in Essex and
:41:51. > :41:56.the only state funded Church of England free school for secondary
:41:56. > :41:59.aged pupils in the country. should and parents be able to
:41:59. > :42:03.choose a Church of England secondary school when they have
:42:03. > :42:06.chosen that for their primary schools? We should be given a
:42:06. > :42:12.choice to choose what we want for our children at a secondary
:42:12. > :42:16.education level. There is a lot of choice at primary level. Free
:42:16. > :42:20.schools are being heavily promoted by the Education Secretary Michael
:42:20. > :42:25.Gove. Set up by parents, charities and other voluntary groups, how are
:42:25. > :42:29.they different? Are they subject to local authority control? Are they
:42:29. > :42:35.funded directly by central government? Do they have greater
:42:35. > :42:38.freedom over the curriculum? Pre- schools also have greater freedom
:42:38. > :42:44.over teachers' pay and conditions, the length of the school day, the
:42:44. > :42:49.selection of pupils and how they spend their money. This school will
:42:49. > :42:54.open here, the old school is closing because of falling student
:42:54. > :42:58.numbers. The government pays schools about �4,000 for each pupil.
:42:58. > :43:03.But if a school attracts fewer pupils, effectively, its budget is
:43:03. > :43:10.cut. Head teachers say the town does not have enough students to
:43:10. > :43:15.sustain six secondary schools. of the existence -- existing
:43:15. > :43:20.schools could be running with vacancies. Absolutely ridiculous in
:43:20. > :43:24.this austere period. If you lose a number of pupils, you lose may be a
:43:24. > :43:27.teacher or two. You also lose flexibility in your curriculum
:43:27. > :43:33.because you have not got the large numbers that allow you to offer
:43:33. > :43:36.such a wide and varied curriculum for the remaining youngsters. So
:43:37. > :43:42.yes the few youngsters that get into a free school may be lucky, if
:43:42. > :43:45.that is what they deem themselves to be. But actually it is at the
:43:45. > :43:49.expense of the youngsters that are remaining in the other schools.
:43:49. > :43:53.What Brent would needs instead, said head teachers, is a vocational
:43:53. > :43:59.school, with the emphasis on training for a career. They are
:43:59. > :44:05.unhappy that the new free school will be another academic school.
:44:05. > :44:09.wonder what it will do that is different. If one school is being
:44:09. > :44:13.replaced by another school that is doing largely the same job, we
:44:13. > :44:16.actually haven't moved forward. is arguments like these over
:44:16. > :44:22.whether free schools are necessary which are causing controversy
:44:22. > :44:25.before many of the schools are even up and running. Well, the Education
:44:25. > :44:28.Secretary Michael Gove has been looking around this school and a
:44:28. > :44:32.little earlier I spoke to him about academies and free schools. I began
:44:32. > :44:38.by asking him why three schools are needed where there is already good
:44:38. > :44:44.school provision. As far as I'm concerned, we need to be a country
:44:44. > :44:47.which has not just good, but great in educational terms. I believe the
:44:47. > :44:53.more school places we have, the more that encourages every school
:44:53. > :44:57.to strive to be even better. There is overwhelming evidence that
:44:57. > :45:01.competition drives quality up. Since Academy Schools had been
:45:01. > :45:04.created they have consistently had better results. We also know
:45:04. > :45:08.academics have concluded that when you have more academies, not only
:45:08. > :45:13.did they raise standards for their own children, they also compel
:45:13. > :45:17.other schools to do better. In every realm of life, competition is
:45:17. > :45:21.what drives increased standards. What about the fact that free
:45:21. > :45:25.schools are likely to deprive existing schools of funding in
:45:25. > :45:30.areas where essentially no further places are needed? There is no
:45:30. > :45:33.requirement to have another school. Free schools will only be created
:45:33. > :45:37.where there is a strong amount of demand from parents for an
:45:37. > :45:40.alternative. It is where the current education system just is
:45:40. > :45:44.not good enough. I agree we are lucky to have a lot of good schools
:45:44. > :45:51.in this area and across England, but we still lead to do better when
:45:51. > :45:56.only half of children leave school with five good GCSEs. I understand
:45:56. > :46:01.a survey said 72% of schools were citing financial gain as a reason
:46:01. > :46:06.for transferring to become an academy. It is a way of bribing
:46:06. > :46:09.schools to become an academy, isn't it? No, it is not bribing. It is
:46:10. > :46:14.giving schools control over the money that the public has decided
:46:14. > :46:18.should be spent on education. At the moment, money is wasted by town
:46:18. > :46:22.halls on needless bureaucracy. Every academy school gets exactly
:46:22. > :46:25.the same level of funding as his call that is not an academy. The
:46:26. > :46:31.difference is, it is the head teacher that spans the money,
:46:31. > :46:34.rather than the time -- rather than the town hall. But you cannot deny
:46:34. > :46:39.that funding will move away from existing schools into the free
:46:39. > :46:44.schools. No, I can deny that. Funding for three schools is
:46:44. > :46:47.getting higher than ever before. We have protected schools funding.
:46:47. > :46:52.Those schools with a high proportion of funding from poor
:46:52. > :46:57.homes will receive additional cast -- money. If parents want to spend
:46:57. > :47:04.their money to those these calls, they will get money. Free schools
:47:04. > :47:08.can effectively select pupils by deciding on their catchment area.
:47:08. > :47:12.Three schools are socially comprehensive. They cannot select.
:47:12. > :47:16.They can suggest which their catchment area will be, and
:47:16. > :47:21.essentially that can be a way to select certain pupils from certain
:47:21. > :47:29.backgrounds, can it not? There are existing schools which are selected
:47:29. > :47:32.on the basement of their catching - - catchment areas. The difference
:47:32. > :47:37.with free schools is that free schools have the opportunity other
:47:37. > :47:40.schools do not have, to prioritise children from poorer homes. Free
:47:40. > :47:46.schools that have been set up so far have been set up in areas where
:47:46. > :47:50.they explicitly target disadvantaged students and siege to
:47:50. > :47:53.-- and seek to do more. It is allied put forward by unions
:47:53. > :47:57.because they are afraid of reforms and do not want to be children
:47:57. > :48:01.ahead of teachers. Where is the redress if parents have problems
:48:01. > :48:05.with a free school? Where do they turn to? They have a choice which
:48:05. > :48:09.they never have before. If you do not believe a school is right for
:48:09. > :48:13.your child. If you believe the school is failing, the first thing
:48:13. > :48:17.is complain to your head teacher, the second his complaint Ofsted,
:48:17. > :48:21.and the third is to withdraw your child to a another school. But at
:48:21. > :48:27.the moment you can complain to the local education authority. They are
:48:27. > :48:30.being removed from the equation, aren't they? To I imagine if you
:48:31. > :48:35.have children, you know the head teacher of your school. How many
:48:35. > :48:39.people watching this programme know the leader of local education
:48:39. > :48:43.services? Local authorities have an important part to play, but let us
:48:43. > :48:47.not delude ourselves that people think their local laboratories are
:48:47. > :48:50.the genuine face of accountability when it comes to schools. The
:48:50. > :48:55.genuine face of accountability is the head teacher. They are the
:48:55. > :48:59.individual that carries the can and they are the individual that should
:48:59. > :49:03.have the power to make a difference. I think parents know instinctively
:49:03. > :49:06.that if you have a problem with a child, you don't go to the local
:49:06. > :49:09.authority, you go to the head teacher. And if it's called is not
:49:09. > :49:14.doing a good job, you take the matter that school and put them in
:49:14. > :49:17.another. Well, watching that interview and
:49:17. > :49:20.here with me are Jerry Glazier, the General Secretary of the Essex
:49:20. > :49:23.National Union of Teachers, Jeremy Rowe, the head teacher of Sir John
:49:23. > :49:25.Lehman High School, in Beccles, Alison Thomas, who is the cabinet
:49:25. > :49:28.member for children's services from Norfolk County Council, and
:49:28. > :49:37.Elizabeth Truss, Conservative MP for South West Norfolk, who has
:49:37. > :49:41.been hosting the Education Secretary's visit.
:49:41. > :49:46.Jerry, let us start with you. Three schools will give parents more
:49:46. > :49:51.choice, when they? Well, I think it is clear that the example shown
:49:51. > :49:55.there, Brentwood, will do the exact opposite. There are sufficient
:49:55. > :49:59.places to meet the needs of children in the area already. Free
:49:59. > :50:03.schools will simply suck people out of the other schools, diminish the
:50:03. > :50:08.ability of those schools to provide the curriculum and ultimately
:50:08. > :50:11.result in a word provision in the area. Briefly, we heard people
:50:11. > :50:17.saying it provides a school that is not there at the moment, a
:50:17. > :50:22.specialist school. This is because of a history of education provision.
:50:22. > :50:27.Primary schools were set up by the Church in the mid-19th century. If
:50:27. > :50:31.we started from scratch, all schools would be secular. Elizabeth,
:50:31. > :50:35.it is only a choice for some parents some of the time. What do
:50:35. > :50:41.you think about that? I think across the board it is improving
:50:41. > :50:45.education. You can see there are new opportunities, teachers have
:50:45. > :50:50.the freedom to bring in the teaching staff from Canada, in this
:50:50. > :50:55.particular case, who are really motivating students. You can just
:50:55. > :50:59.feel the excitement. We are giving more people more opportunities. We
:50:59. > :51:09.cannot be complacent about Britain's position. We are
:51:09. > :51:15.
:51:15. > :51:21.currently 28th in the world for maths although we are the sixth
:51:21. > :51:25.country in other areas. There obviously is a transition period.
:51:25. > :51:31.The role of the local authority will change and certainly our
:51:31. > :51:36.relationship with that academy, for example, is extremely good. We are
:51:36. > :51:42.one of the co-sponsors, as we are for Ormiston Victory Academy as
:51:42. > :51:45.well. So I would like to see local authorities keeping in touch with
:51:45. > :51:50.schools. While a relationship might have changed, I would not like to
:51:50. > :51:54.see it end. But what about the question of funding? Went money be
:51:54. > :51:58.be directed to the new schools? Clearly, we have money coming into
:51:58. > :52:05.the local authority at the moment, and dedicated schools run that is
:52:05. > :52:08.going to schools. If schools are going directly and getting a
:52:09. > :52:15.funding elsewhere, then the role of the local authority will have to
:52:15. > :52:19.change rather than being that conduit. Jeremy, why don't you want
:52:19. > :52:28.pre-schools in your area? Are that -- is it just sour grapes? I think
:52:28. > :52:32.they can be good in many ways but if there is no need in the area, to
:52:32. > :52:40.see schools been built where there is no neat in this current economic
:52:40. > :52:44.climate, I don't think people will stand for it. People will go to the
:52:44. > :52:47.free school if there is a need. if you double the number of
:52:47. > :52:52.hospitals you will not double the quality of care. It is the same
:52:52. > :52:55.with schools. Alison, what have local authority is done so wrong
:52:55. > :53:01.that so much encouragement is now being given to schools to opt out
:53:01. > :53:04.of council control? Well I don't begin Norfolk we have done anything
:53:05. > :53:08.wrong. The five academies that opened in September were very
:53:08. > :53:13.closely linked with the local authority and we continue to work
:53:13. > :53:19.with them very closely. We saw a massive improvement in the results
:53:19. > :53:23.this year after just one year. Students that it those GCSEs that
:53:23. > :53:27.it only been in an academy for one academic year, the results doubled
:53:27. > :53:30.in each of those schools. So I don't think we have done anything
:53:30. > :53:35.wrong, I think it is about the government taking a slightly
:53:35. > :53:39.different initiative and looking at the national picture. I can only
:53:39. > :53:45.see -- speak for Norfolk, but I feel we are working hard with all
:53:45. > :53:49.the available educational systems in place. Elizabeth, I want add to
:53:49. > :53:54.that. What about this question we raced with Michael Gove about
:53:54. > :53:57.redress, and to you turn to if you have a problem? Well I think he
:53:57. > :54:02.made a vital point which is that the head teacher is to everybody
:54:02. > :54:05.looks at. I think Alison Thomas is absolutely right in what she says.
:54:05. > :54:09.The local government need to be there to enable the head teacher to
:54:09. > :54:12.make the best possible decisions and recruit the best teachers, but
:54:12. > :54:17.ultimately, those are the people who are accountable to parents, and
:54:17. > :54:21.if parents are not happy with the quality of education, they need a
:54:21. > :54:25.another school available locally that their children can go to so
:54:25. > :54:29.those children have another chance. That is what is so important. Local
:54:29. > :54:36.authority is an government can play a very positive role. The next
:54:37. > :54:41.thing we will be doing today is talking about that. I want to talk
:54:41. > :54:44.about the union view on this, Jeremy. I think Michael Gove was
:54:45. > :54:48.wrong on redress. If they head teacher is up to no good, it is not
:54:48. > :54:53.enough for parents to take their child that. They should be some
:54:53. > :54:59.form of accountability there. There is potential for heads to become
:54:59. > :55:03.fiefdoms. I thought that was a poor answer. Jeremy, do you want add
:55:03. > :55:06.something to that? Absolutely. By the editors at the core of the
:55:06. > :55:10.whole three schools programme. It is not good enough to say to
:55:10. > :55:15.parents, take their child out, disrupt their education, put them
:55:15. > :55:18.in another school. Those parents need to have a proper redress. Be
:55:18. > :55:22.diminished role of liberal authorities means that they can no
:55:22. > :55:27.longer do that. They have to go to the Secretary of State in Whitehall
:55:27. > :55:29.and he's too busy to deal with individual complaints. As the lead
:55:29. > :55:33.member of the children's services in Norfolk, if parents are
:55:33. > :55:39.struggling with their school and they feel they need Sem address --
:55:39. > :55:43.redress, I am still there. Education in Orphic is my
:55:43. > :55:47.responsibility. But do you have any authority over free schools? Maybe
:55:48. > :55:51.I don't have direct responsibility, but nevertheless I have
:55:51. > :55:55.responsibility for all of Norfolk's children and my priority is they
:55:55. > :55:59.all get a good education. If parents are struggling to work with
:55:59. > :56:04.a system that they are finding perhaps make it a bit difficult to
:56:04. > :56:09.get that redress, I am more than happy for them to contact me and
:56:09. > :56:12.then I will assist them, and the local authority will assist them.
:56:12. > :56:15.think the issue is we have not been good enough about dealing with poor
:56:15. > :56:20.teaching in the past. People are complaining about the dress, but
:56:20. > :56:24.where is the redress the generations of students who have
:56:24. > :56:27.been failed by poor schools? This is a real opportunity for students
:56:27. > :56:32.to get a good education and actually get battered teachers into
:56:32. > :56:37.our schools. Jeremy, if people want these three schools, who are the
:56:37. > :56:42.head teachers such as yourselves to try to dissuade them? Well another
:56:42. > :56:47.point is where is the redress for voters about the government? In
:56:47. > :56:51.terms of pre-schools, this is not self interest, I am pro free
:56:51. > :56:57.schools, but it is economically a poor and to build its -- state that
:56:57. > :57:00.facilities that are not needed when so much has been cut. And what
:57:00. > :57:03.about the union point of view on wages, do have concerns as to where
:57:03. > :57:07.this will lead? There are potential concerns there but I don't want to
:57:07. > :57:11.go down that angle because the fundamental issues about schools of
:57:11. > :57:14.the future is something that I do agree with - that we need to have
:57:15. > :57:19.inspirational head teachers running schools and we need to encourage
:57:19. > :57:22.them to be inspirational educators. Not people who then become
:57:22. > :57:27.responsible for running businesses and get distracted by taking on a
:57:27. > :57:32.whole raft of other responsibilities. We need to have a
:57:32. > :57:35.profession which is properly rewarded in general, an attractive
:57:35. > :57:44.profession so the weekend attract the best people into teaching, and
:57:44. > :57:47.keep them there. Thank you for your time.